UPDATED: Malkin's 2 million protester claim; it's like the blind leading the blind
September 12, 2009 8:30 pm ET by Eric Boehlert
I suppose it's one of the benefits of occupying a parallel universe like the right-wing blogosphere: facts are truly irrelevant. And I'm pretty sure partisan conservatives prefer it that way. They love just making stuff up.
As we've noted, this afternoon Malkin plucked out of thin air the bogus claim that ABC News reported the 9/12 protest crowd was 2 million strong. False. Nobody at ABC News ever made that claim, and no sane observer of the D.C. event today would claim with a straight face that somehow 2 million people overtook the nation's capitol.
It's pure fantasy.
But did that stop anybody on the right from repeating the hollow claim? Please. Did Newsbusters link to Malkin's phony claim? Check? Wizbang. Check. Gay Patriot? Check. Examiner.com? Check. Right Pundits? Check.
I think Malkin should have just claimed 12 million protesters showed up. Because every one of her willingly gullible followers would have linked to her anyway.
UPDATED: More blogging comedy. Right-wing blogger Stephen Green first claimed that CNN reported the crowd was 2 million story. (CNN did no such thing.) Then later in a "correction," Green, following Malkin's phony lead, reported it was ABC News which claimed 2 million. Of course, ABC News denies that fact, and nobody can find any evidence that ABC News ever made the claim.
Psst Stephen, Malkin made that part up.
UPDATED: A frustrated Michelle Malkin reader posted this comment:
On September 12th, 2009 at 8:05 pm, Rob said:Also, could someone PLEASE provide the evidence/link to the over one million mark? I need to prove to a few people that it was that high…
Thanks!
Who wants to be the one to tell "Rob" there's no "evidence/link" to be found that over one million people turned out today. Malkin just made it up.
UPDATED: FoxNews.com pegs the crowd at well below 2 million. "Tens of thousands," in fact. Part of a liberal media conspiracy to low-ball estimates, no doubt.
UPDATED: Do you laugh or cry when you read this kind of nonsense?
ABC News reports that two million Americans flooded D.C. in what people in the crowd were calling “a conservative Woodstock” Like the liberal Woodstock of the ’60s, thousands were rumored stranded on freeways.
UPDATED: Atlas Shrugs gets in the idiocy act (don't act surprised):
The two photos above show a tiny fraction of the two million ABC estimates attended.
Keep in mind ABC News was on the record pretty much all day Saturday denying the 2 million story. But bloggers like Atlas Shrugs couldn't be bothered to, y'know, correct erroneous posts. That's just not how the right-wing blogosphere works people.
UPDATED: Right-wingers (i.e. Instapundit) are clinging to this typically awful and unsubstantiated article from the British press which claims "up to two million people" marched on Washington. Good luck finding the sourcing for that vague estimate in the article. There is none. The British press, as is its custom, is just regurgitating a right-wing lie.
Media Matters: The Palin chronicles
The Friday Rush: A series of conflicts
Contrary to media hype, Sarah Palin is very unpopular
How is using what he has available "deliberately misleading", and why can't you understand that a photo of empty space is illustrative versus a photo of jampacked humanity?
"...I wanted to provide some perspective about the difference between thirty thousand people and one million people. For reference, the teabaggers were mostly in front of the Capitol and around the Capitol's reflecting pool. For anyone not familiar with DC, they were directly to the east of 3rd Street in Washington.
For reference, I crossed 3rd Street and took a picture facing west from the Capitol at the Washington Monument, similar to some of the crowd shots we'd seen after the inauguration. Here's the difference between the teabaggers' protest today vs. President Obama's inaguration crowd, which included anywhere from 1 million to 1.5 million people. So, what happened to all that grassroots anger?"
What does any of this have to do with how many people were actually there? Once again, with regret, I must direct you to the foreign press to learn what's really going on in our own country.
Not as hilarious as you completely missing the point.This phony event was almost entirely invented by Fox News, meaning that if anybody was going to inflate the numbers, it would be Fox.
Michelle Malkin is a frequent guest on Fox News,is most likely funded by the same GOP sources as Fox and talk radio, and she had to make up an imaginary number, falsely crediting it to another source.
Get it?
I will agree with you about getting information from foreign press, and you'd probably find that the more liberal-leaning Americans are more likely to use those sources outside the mainstream conservative media here.
What does any of this have to do with how many people were actually there? Well, it's pretty much the subject of the entire item, so I'd say it has everything to do with it.
As far as GOP funding for Fox News, ALL major networks are propaganda arms of the Pentagon. Malkin is probably just a "mockingbird" hanger-on.
These silly labels you use: conservative and liberal. I think what you mean to say is NeoCon and progressive: both are enemies of the state. REAL conservatives and liberals are no longer represented in the media because these ideologies, traditionally, are dangerous to the establishment.
You do realize the fallacy of that statement right? You are in effect saying Glenn Beck was co-opting his own event. Go look at the very bottom of the 9/12 website. You will find "Copyright © 2009 Mercury Radio Arts, Inc." Mercury Radio Arts is Glenn Becks very own production company.
So, no, Glenn Beck wasn't co-opting the event. Glenn Beck created the event.
You can pretend that you're not a member of either side. I don't believe you.
"President Obama spoke in Minneapolis today concerning HealthCare.
Prince News has estimated that President Obama drew one more person than the TeaParty in Washington. This was reported on Fox News." ThePrinceofWheels
Anyone needing a link to this fact can just send eveyone here to this News Flash.
We have a crisis! Sticks, strings, and carrots are suffering. Michelle Malkin is overstocked and needs more donkey's, to blindly lead into confusion, unfounded decent, and overt foolishness.
It be it,
Ronin Kannushi.
We have a crisis! Sticks, strings, and carrots are suffering. Michelle Malkin is overstocked and needs more donkey's, to blindly lead into confusion, unfounded decent, and overt foolishness.
It be it,
Ronin Kannushi.
They had to shut down Pennsylvania Avenue for 3 hours to allow for the marchers to make their way to capital.
Geez, this has got to make media matters (for very little), matter even less!
Now then, there are 169 million registered voters in America. that means that only 13 percent of Americans (genrously calculated) support the movement.
I am unimpressed.
It is very impressive... and dangerous.
I don't even know if that picture is from the right date, but the turnout has been very small. A freedom works founder said 30,000. So, it is pretty funny, and I am laughing.
The thing that makes me suspicious is that the Youtube movie for the time-lapsed gathering was released 11 hours ago, noontime EST. That's cutting it pretty close, but I suppose it could have been made in time.
However, we'll need to hear all sides for numbers.
1st, we KNOW 2 mil people weren't there...Malkin is a liar.
2nd, The other photo shown was from a ridiculous perspective that would've made the superbowl look sparsely attended.
There were not a million people there, or even close to it.
http://cid-8fa5718388d6cbd2.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/9%2012%20March%20on%20DC
I love the sign saying that right wingers have not only all of the hot chicks, but the smart ones too (listing Ann Coulter, Palin and someone named "Irelad").
The link in the item in this part:UPDATED: Do you laugh or cry when you read this kind of nonsense? Has some great photos too. Lots of confused looking people, outraged at figments of their imaginations.
You've always had the reputation of playing fast and lose with the facts. You're batting 1.000.
Did you? I heard that the moon is made of cheese. What you heard doesn't count as a fact.
The estimates range from 30,000 to 70,000, which is laughably small. There were supposed to be hundreds of thousands, even millions!
Lets take Pittsburgh, population is about 300,000 (316,000 from a census web-page). Are you trying to say I can fit the entire population of Pittsburg in 3 city blocks? If you want to be really accurate can you fit the entire Pittsburg population in 3.16 blocks?
Did you hear that from the voices in your head, or Malkin on Fox Noise, or did you just pull it out of your ***
All flags across the country went to half-staff on Friday in memory of the 9/11 attacks.
Notice the flag, epspecially.
This was the actual web traffic cam from the time the above picture was claimed:
Try again. Only this time use a credible source.
In the time lapse I see, the flag is absent and then raised to half-mast. Could it be due to the remembrance of 9/11?
Even "FreedomWorks" has the numbers under 70,000.
Why is Malkin inflating the numbers? Simple. She's a confirmed serial liar.
She made her initial appearance with a revisionist "history" book about Japanese-Americans.
She lied about posing for a photograph with a guy who had an Obama=Nazi sign.
She lied about a scarf Rachel Ray was wearing.
The reporter in your links says "tens of thousands." Tens of thousands! That's really pathetic.
Oh, and love the coherent signs. "Don't tread on me," and "It's the constitution, stupid." Let's just name the protest the "Hate Obama with no message rally."
And the NY Times is saying the same thing.
It was a minor event. And I haven't seen a single close-up photo that makes them look good - just a bunch of ignorant Obama haters.
Yes, that exactly. They should have all just held up signs that said "We hate Obama, and we don't need any reason!"
A few exceptions such as Nancy Pelosi (Mrs. Plastic Face herself) and Harry Reid.
If you all do not know what Democracy means, then why are you here?
Because we don't hang out with nuts who hold signs equating Obama to a communist and a fascist. It's a waste of our time to hang out with losers.
Anyhow, what does any of that have to do with us not understanding what Democracy means?
Why was Beck himself not there?
This was both a tea-party event and the "9/12 Project". Although I doubt that anyone could have told you what the 9/12 Project stands for there.
Do you consider that a paragraph? I'm trying not to nitpick, as there have already been some grammar/spelling/coherence sidetracks at this site lately, but wtf is that supposed to mean? Is this how wingnuts communicate, just work in a Reid or Pelosi, and you start drooling on yourselves and screeching?
I know it shouldn't be as funny anymore, like watching Wile E. Coyote get that crate from Acme in the mail for the hundredth time, I know what's coming when PC bursts in with his condescending "mediamatters(for very little)" post. I've been visiting this site for (?) four years or so, and watching the wingnuts' rocket skates blow up, and watching the boulders fall on them, it shouldn't be as funny anymore.
But, I have to admit, it's still funny to watch Proud(for very little)conservative and all of his zany comrades come here with their Acme products time after time.
Here's some video that's actually trying to fire it up,look at the final quick shot that crops out the bottom half, and it looks like the crowd at the swap meet that takes place near me every weekend.
Also a highlight about 1:20 in, a metaphor for the best teabaggers arguments..
Then there is the fact that today was overcast and pictures such as this one and a bit of a keen eye can tell they don't match.
But since when did facts and attention to details matter to any of you glue sniffers!
How come there are more in the Picture then on the Green in ALL the Vids and REAL pictures?
Don't be a Dink.. Where is your documentation to back up your claim?
For the record, I no longer have anything to do with PK, largely because I think their message has become so superficial.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/12/taxpayer-march-on-washing_n_284477.html
Disgusting.
At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."
ABC News Was Misquoted on Crowd Size...
Now to be credible, whoever submitted this picture better have a good explanation! Of the "attack" on media matters is as bogus as the picture!
They get caught lying,plagiarizing, being suckered in by the lamest propaganda sites, and they never apologize or admit that they got chumped. They just come back the next day, insulting and condescending, and whining that nobody wants to have a civil discussion with their tired BS.
They've already begun setting up the excuse that "the mainstream media purposely overinflates what we said were our expectations" so that "no matter how well we do, they can put their little negative spin on it."
You are saying that a crowd the size of ONE QUARTER OF NEW YORK CITY showed up?
You are saying that a crowd larger than every U.S. city, except NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, and (not sure on this one) Phoenix was present?
2 MILLION PEOPLE!!!
You do realize that number is larger than the total of ALL AMERICAN DEATHS, ON ALL SIDES OF CONFLICTS, IN EVERY SINGLE WAR IN AMERICAN HISTORY? You gonna stand by that claim?
Someone, please send me a funny Lockhorns comic strip... after this I need a boost. :)
Sharon in Colorado.
If you wish to be fair about a rally all over the Country why not use facts instead of rhetoric. This must be a place that believes Obama was really born in Hawaii. A site that believes we are the cause of the myth (Global Warming).
I feel sorry for all you follow the leader types.
Fact check sites have shown Obama was born in Hawaii. There are over 600 peer-reviewed scientific papers that support global warming, and none that refute it. You might try getting your news from real sources, and then you might understand the world.
But I am sticking to the Global Warming fact. It just doesn't work to your biased attitude. Gore is a bore.
You're a nut. In the post just above, you claimed the *exact* opposite. Do you have some type of cripple browser that doesn't show what you just posted?
You might want to read what the peer-reviewed science says about global warming before forming an opinion. Or, you may want to keep to your ignorance.
No, you are not an American unless you show us your Birth Certificate. You don't expect us to just take your word for it, do you?
The Census' final report card on Bush's record presents an intriguing backdrop to today's economic debate. Bush built his economic strategy around tax cuts, passing large reductions both in 2001 and 2003.
Congressional Republicans are insisting that a similar agenda focused on tax cuts offers better prospects of reviving the economy than President Obama's combination of some tax cuts with heavy government spending.
But the bleak economic results from Bush's two terms, tarnish, to put it mildly, the idea that tax cuts represent an economic silver bullet.
#1 - Consider first the median income. When Bill Clinton left office after 2000, the median income-the income line around which half of households come in above, and half fall below-stood at $52,500 (measured in inflation-adjusted 2008 dollars). When Bush left office after 2008, the median income had fallen to $50,303. That's a decline of 4.2 per cent.
#2 - Bush's record on poverty is equally bleak. When Clinton left office in 2000, the Census counted almost 31.6 million Americans living in poverty. When Bush left office in 2008, the number of poor Americans had jumped to 39.8 million (the largest number in absolute terms since 1960.) Under Bush, the number of people in poverty increased by over 8.2 million, or 26.1 per cent. Over two-thirds of that increase occurred before the economic collapse of 2008.
#3 - The trends were comparably daunting for children in poverty. When Clinton left office nearly 11.6 million children lived in poverty, according to the Census. When Bush left office that number had swelled to just under 14.1 million, an increase of more than 21 per cent.
#4 - The story is similar again for access to health care. When Clinton left office, the number of uninsured Americans stood at 38.4 million. By the time Bush left office that number had grown to just over 46.3 million, an increase of nearly 8 million or 20.6 per cent.
#5 - The trends look the same when examining shares of the population that are poor or uninsured, rather than the absolute numbers in those groups. When Clinton left office in 2000 13.7 per cent of Americans were uninsured; when Bush left that number stood at 15.4 per cent. (Under Bush, the share of Americans who received health insurance through their employer declined every year of his presidency-from 64.2 per cent in 2000 to 58.5 per cent in 2008.)
And YOU think that YOU should be trusted?
despite what a russian emigrant, turned dentist, turned lawyer (who got her law degree from an online school which still has no accreditation and probably never will because of her), turned conspiracy theorist, will change my or the majority of people's minds.
feel sorry for yourself that you are being dupped constantly. every "kenyian" birth certificate that has been shown has proven to have been a forgery. and rather poor ones.
Not even kidding. Malkin cited a Twitter user named Tabitha Hale. She said that the Park Service reported 2 million. Of course, the Park Service doesn't do estimates, so I prodded her a little and she was nice enough to reply.
http://twitter.com/pinkelephantpun/status/3948444061
So there you have it. Unnamed employee -> Ms. Hale -> Malkin -> "accepted fact".
Conservatives were also hyping the size of the crowd:
"The march, organized by Armey’s political group FreedomWorks, is scheduled for Sept. 12 and is already generating hundreds of thousands of responses, the Texas Republican tells Newsmax.TV. The group isn’t providing transportation, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem."
link
Actually, the 2 million figure came from a board member at FreedomWorks Associate, Smart Girl Politics, Tabitha Hale. She tweeted it as @pinkelephantpun. Why she decided to tack on another 500k to Kibbe's lie will likely remain one of life's great mysteries.
Absolutely. And she does it the way the fringe always does: with outrage. She links to a hotair blog (another right winger) who contests the number of uninsured. Obviously, the two numbers have nothing to do with each other. And, the hot air blog is using the same half-wrong methodology that polifact pointed out.
And here's Malkin crowing about the size of the march before she had to issue her half correction:
"As I joked after the Tax Day Tea Party: 'When left-wing activists make crowd estimates, the algorithm is: Six figures = one million.'
"Safe to say, by liberal math standards, today’s turnout rivaled the 'Million Man March' and the 'Million Mom March' for sure."
Oh yes. It was bigger than the million man march! What a fool! Then she goes on to blame her error on freedomworks. This woman works in a fact free world.
If it's wrong, it's wrong. It doesn't make it right just because someone else does it.
Most of us learned that as 12 year olds.
When people can sit down and spread out their picnic blankets, it's not packed. :D
As ReasonandResolve noted about the wingnut commentators, the corporate masters using these people don't want the teabaggers anywhere near their private property.
And as for Fawltylogic's photo, think how much less "packed" this would have appeared if most wingnuts weren't as fat, or didn't need to lie down every few minutes to get some blood to their heads.
I mean, when I was there, a guy, a speaker, even claimed that over the mic when he was on stage, and everyone cheered! Why? Because even when they're there, and seeing what is actually going on, they still believe the crap they're told.
Amazing.
Nowhere near a million.
On another note, I was also at Inauguration this year in January, and there were indeed millions of people there, and when there are millions of people there, the Mall was packed from the West Lawn down back PAST the Lincoln Memorial, and you could hardly move before and after everything started and finished. There was human gridlock.
This was a meager turnout, considering local groups around DC for this past week leading up to the main event were predicting and saying that they were expecting at LEAST a million people to show up.
EPIC FAIL for the tea baggers. If this is a "populist" movement, than I'm Tony Danza.
Remember during the Inauguration "one port-a-potty for every 300 people" was the minimum recommended? Inauguration had 5,000 Port-a-potties.
Check with the Port-a-Potty service folks for statistics on usage before and after the fact. These professionals know the basic human biology demands. What's important is not merely the number of units, but how heavy was the usage.
"Stranded on freeways"? You gotta be kidding me! I live here in DC. There was actually less traffic than a typical Saturday; it wasn't even close to inauguration day -- when there really were about a million people here. I mean, 2 million is laughable on its face. That would take up almost the entire mall, and they'd have to close streets. You right-wingers are a joke! Fail!
In a slightly off topic posting.
The 2 chowderheads that played gotcha movie with ACORN in MD are going to face charges, and jailtime. I wonder if Beck will lend them some money for their defense?
Does Joe Wilson have to go??
I have posted a comment asking them to correct this but in the meantime I'm sure they are enjoying the traffic from the US - they are currently #2 on Memeorandum ...
Actually, the ill-informed Glenn Back viewers and the Ford foundation provocateurs are irrelevant. The real growing force behind these rallies are the non-partisan, politically aware, well-educated citizens who, in larger and larger numbers, are seeing what's been going in this country over the past, say, 30 years, and have decided to stand up.
George Bush was the wakeup call. Barrack Obama is the slap in the face.
The only "real" people who apparently showed up for this rally were the ignorant types who were apparently anti anything Obama, and pro anything republican, which I don't have a problem with, but let's stop trying to disguise it as a non-partisan gathering.
Before this year’s Orange International Street Fair, organizers and the Orange Police Department estimated that 500,000 people would visit the streets of downtown Orange during the three-day event.
I didn't go this year, but I can tell you about "packed" from previous years.
Malkin isn't stupid, she's just devious and has street smarts designed to trap otherwise intelligent people.
Mentioning a number is called SIGNALING as it provides a reference for all future numbers. A related concept in negotiation is that the first person who mentions a number loses the negotiation.
By mentioning an absurd number Malkin has gotten everyone on this thread to mention the same absurd number as a reference and then seek to rationally undermine it.
What do people remember, the fact or the absurd number? Ask yourself, do people remember Joe Wilson or Obama's speech?
In the future, I suggest that rather than restate an absurd claim, learn to never mention the absurd claim in your response. If you need a reference, just say, "Malkin's absurd claim."
Randy
I went to the supermarket today after writing the above comment. Have you ever stood in the checkout line and looked at the reading material sold to impulse buyers? Is any of that based upon reality? Imagine, an entire industry built upon deception and fraud.
Just because some of us can make rational distinctions is not as reassuring as the thought that nearly all of use can make rational distinctions.
Randy
Go back to the anti-Iraq War marches and see how many photos, column inches and mentions were made. What placement in the press did those events receive? How many people showed up? Which TV networks promoted the event beforehand?
I think there's an ideal case study for a master's thesis on the true conservative media in the U.S. and put to bed the canard of a liberal MSM.
Photo credit AP/Noah Berger
I was watching an Ultimate Fresbee game on the mall between Air and Space and the National Gallery of Art. That's the 250k area. One block away, closer to the Monument, the Black Family Reunion celebration (an annual event in DC) took up two blocks worth of mall. That's the 500k to 750k area.
Meanwhile, closer to the capital, there was a whole section of mall that was only sparsely populated. And 3rd street (which was closed off to vehicle traffic) was very open. I rode my bike all the way down the mall, around the Capital and back, without ever having to stop or dismount - not possible with crowds over 100k.
I will say this about the crowd - they were well behaved, except for a few obnoxious exceptions.
No insults, no rudeness, nothing.
Pam Geller. Fearless Crusader for Free Speech.
The big issues are not solved with more speeches.
President Obama has traveled to Europe and the Middle East, as ALL new leaders do. And he's attended the world leaders conference as well. However President Obama has only taken ONE WEEK of vacation since he's been in office.
Now Bush on the other hand, was on vacation for THE ENTIRE MONTH OF AUGUST BEFORE the 9/11 attacks.
You probably should have "respectfully requested" HE get back to work sooner and maybe we could have avoided 9/11.
I'd also suggest you check your facts, before ASSuming that President Obama is not doing his job!
I'd say President Obama's Middle East speech went a H*LL of a long way to repairing the damage done by the Bush administration.
We cannot survive as a democracy if companies are allowed to purchase media outlets and orchestrate civil demonstrations like this one and like the many town halls we've seen. Although there attempt to do so was an abysmal failure in this case, we might not be so lucky in the future. This is a direct confrontation between corporate and state power orchestrated through their PR branch at FOX NEWS. Something needs to be done to stop this or we can kiss this democracy goodbye.
This is from the 1963 march of 250,000 people. 250,000.
And this is from the 9/12 march. 2 million? I don't think so. Notice how much lawn you can see stretching back towards the Washington Monument. Notice how there's nobody on the steps of the capitol. I'm taking the fire dept & park service estimates of 30k-60k.
Of course, 60,000 people is still quite a bit. Not sure why folks feel the need to use photos of the 1990 Promise Keeper's protest or the 2005 Anti-war rally, or cite fake sources to try and bolster the numbers.
And they call us the liars...