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Glenn Beck and the great straw-man massacre of 2009

September 23, 2009 11:43 am ET by Simon Maloy

So I'm about 70 pages into Glenn Beck's newest book, Arguing with Idiots, and I have to admit, Beck does paint a pretty convincing picture of an idiot. The premise of the book is that Beck is engaged in an ongoing argument with "the idiot," who comes armed with some truly idiotic statements, such as, "They may not be perfect, but France is doing socialism right -- we should be more like them," and, "Private schools aren't beholden to unions, but they should be closed because they're only for the rich."

It should be noted, however, that in these 70 pages, Beck provides just one example -- just one -- of a real person or group actually making the argument he attributes to "the idiot." The rest of "the idiot's" absurdly simplified arguments add up to a crude caricature of the progressive, socialist, communist, fascist, peacenik, pot-smoking, transgender hippies that, in Beck's mind, are destroying the country.

Page 70 offers an excellent example of what I'm talking about. After three pages devoted largely to attacking teachers who refuse to grade papers in red ink, "the idiot" argues: "If we only put as much money into this country's schools as we do its defense, everything would be fine." Beck offers this riposte:

We are all familiar with the bumper stickers pining for the day that the defense budget goes to the schools and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale, but comparing educational spending with national defense isn't particularly fair, clever, or logical.

First of all, we have to spend on money on defense because if we don't defend our country -- well, the schools won't matter much. Take the Republic of Georgia for instance. Do you really think citizens there are worried about standardized test scores or drunk Russian soldiers driving tanks down their streets?

So we've moved on from Arguing with Idiots to Arguing with Bumper Stickers. I can't tell if that's a step forward, backward, or sideways. Either way, I'm not familiar with those bumper stickers, nor am I familiar with any public education advocates who argue that we stop spending money on national defense. And what does Georgia have to do with any of this? Does anyone begrudge Georgia for spending on its national defense? None of this makes any sense.

To read this book is to watch Glenn Beck argue with himself, and then boast about how he's winning the debate.

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    • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 11:54 am ET)
      8  
      His personal ugly streak is coming to the front with this book; let me count the ways. First, there is the cover with the vaguely Nazi-esque uniform, and somehow, Glenn seems to have a monical. Second, there is the title and major premise, people are idiots, it is a bit insulting. Third, there were the commercials before it came out. You could order it, or seem a preview somewhere on his website, unless you were too stupid to find it. That is how it was phrased, too. Frankly, I don't want to buy anything from someone who insults me. I have never been a fan of Don Rickles, I found him mean and ugly forty years ago, Glenn is meaner. Fourth, I listened to an audio preview, the preview is read by multiple voices and readers. The tone is condescending and patronizing and utterly lacking in fact or logic. There are a bunch of slippery slope arguments that reduce everything to the most simple and absurd. Fifth and finally, I really hate how Glenn is constantly shilling for his dreck! He seems to think that he knows and understands all and that the rest of us would be so much better if we listened to every bit of garbage that rolls out with the drool from his mouth. I won't be arguing with idiots, neither will I be subsidizing them.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by IRONY 101 (September 23, 2009 12:26 pm ET)
        6  
        In other words, Glennn's brain-dead fans will love the book... ;>)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
          3  
          Yes, but maybe the brighter ones will start to see how they are being played and tire of the game. I firmly believe that Glenn will be his own undoing, his arrogance or vicious streak will pop out onto the wrong person and that will be the spark that starts the crash and burn. I just wonder how much damage he will inflict before it happens.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 23, 2009 3:46 pm ET)
            1  
            Yes, but maybe the brighter ones will start to see how they are being played
            I wish, but I'm afraid we'll see pigs flying overhead before that happens.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by political_left-religious_right (September 23, 2009 12:55 pm ET)
        5  
        A Nazi uniform and a monicle? Beck is Colonel Klink!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 1:01 pm ET)
          3  
          Yeah, there is a resemblance, but with something of Sergeant Schultz's dogged ignorance thrown in. Frankly, I find the Nazi-esque imagery a little scary and very disgusting. Hogan's Heros was one thing, this is another. The Nazis were played for laughs by Jewish survivors. Glenn isn't in on the joke.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 23, 2009 3:47 pm ET)
               
            Glenn isn't in on the joke.
            Glenn is the very personification of the joke.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 23, 2009 3:46 pm ET)
             
          Beck is Colonel Klink!
          He should have called his book Cash for Klinkers...
          Report Abuse
        • Author by dlhunter (September 23, 2009 5:24 pm ET)
             
          actually, it's not a Nazi uniform at all -- it's a Russian uniform, and you can tell as much (if you are confused) by looking at the backwards R in the title, and the backwards N in the first paragraph (the backwards R is the word Ja (or reference to ones self)...the backwards N is the word and).
          Report Abuse
      • Author by shaggles (September 23, 2009 1:05 pm ET)
        2  
        I thought it looked more like a Russian uniform.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Obama123 (September 25, 2009 4:03 pm ET)
           
        Just playing devil's advocate here....

        First: Does the monocle seem to leave you confused about the message his book is trying to convey? Could it perhaps be Glenn Beck's impersonation of the subject (or at least one of the many subjects) of his argument? (the idiot, if you didn't already know the answer).

        Second: If you don't think that people are idiots, follow this link:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE5Y3AJpL6g

        And, if you think I'm at all racist, here's another one:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyXxjyFnpck

        None of this means that all people are idiots (after all, these examples are merely anecdotal sources; there is no way case examples can make inferences for the whole population). In fact, there might never be an unbiased way to accurately distinguish who in the U.S. is an idiot and who isn't ("idiot," after all, is a rather subjective term).

        But, even so, I'm fairly certain that there are quite a few idiots scattered throughout the U.S. If you don't believe me, take a look at this website:

        http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

        I hope you can see Beck's point of view a little bit more. I certainly do.

        Third: I sure hope you weren't insulted by that commercial. Only if that conditional statement applied to you would you ever even have a reason to be mad at it (after all, if you were able to find that website, then you obviously wouldn't be an idiot (according to said commercial's own definition).

        Fourth: Again, if you're not an idiot, don't worry about it. Glenn Beck isn't patronizing you, he's just patronizing everyone else. You obviously aren't an idiot, since you've educated yourself with his book.

        Fifth: True. He is advocating his book. Just like J.K. Rowling advocated for hers, and Barack Obama advocated for his. Isn't that just a characteristic of someone who's trying to get his/her book out into the public eye and (surprise, surprise) make a little money off of it?

        And, last of all, I hope you don't have to argue with any idiots anytime soon. But, if in the event that you come across a particularly argumentative idiot, you've now got Glenn Beck's own ammunition on how to argue back with them. See? That wasn't such a big waste of time, now was it?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wookie (September 23, 2009 11:59 am ET)
      6  
      This is a favorite tactic of the right because they don't have to identify who they are arguing with or how true any particular statement is. And if 9/11 taught us anything its that a bazillion dollar defense budget has no effect on people who want to crash American planes into American buildings.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 12:10 pm ET)
        5  
        True, Anthrax Annie does it all the time. So does Malicious Malkontent.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 23, 2009 1:43 pm ET)
          3  
          You're going to single them out, epk? Almost everybody on wingnut talk radio builds their show on debates with imaginary people, and several posters at this site respond to comments by attacking the most ridiculous interpretations of the comment they're responding to.

          The Strawman is sacred (h/t to the much-missed Solon) to the right.

          One of the most unintentionally funny comments I've seen at this site was the righty who sarcastically congratulated me on getting through an entire post without using the word strawman.He had never pointed out any examples of my using the term inaccurately, but I doubt he understood that he had insulted himself.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 1:57 pm ET)
            3  
            Well, I only singled out those females because I don't listen to talk radio. The only time I ever hear any of it is through the posts on MMFA. My mother listened to this audio compost for most of my life, I thought it was dreadful then and I haven't changed my mind. My mother died back in 2001, I am not sure she ever heard Glennie, but I am quite sure she would have been a big fan and believed every word. I know she actually watched Rush's short-lived TV show, I watched it once with her, and got to point out a bunch of stuff he had wrong, because he was talking about some teachers that had been singled out for excellence and I actually knew one of them, from a small town in Kansas. She believed me, but when I wasn't around, she voted for Perot! Can you tell me what happened with Solon?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 23, 2009 2:13 pm ET)
              3  
              I was only kidding with you, epk, I knew you weren't going for an exhaustive list.

              I don't know what happened to Solon. I know he wasn't one to suffer idiots (real idiots, not Beck-style invented idiots) and he could get pretty brutal with the more obtuse right wingers, so he got banned once before.

              There have been a few wingnut posters here who use that as their M.O. Keep acting like an idiot until somebody gives up trying to reason with an idiot, and calls them an idiot. The idiot can then flag that person for name-calling.

              BTW, the comments at Redstate are pretty funny/scary.The paranoid shut-ins seem to have been convinced that ACORN needs to be destroyed, and that the O'Keefe propaganda videos
              are the journalistic achievement of the year.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
                2  
                I checked out a couple of the comments. You're right. I also went to Amazon and read some of the reviews for Glennie's latest scribbling. I find it funny how they say liberals can't have an argument because we never present facts, just emotions, and we are the first to call names. When I have tried arguing real facts, with citations, I am told that it doesn't matter, because I will never convince them, or it's just stuff out of books that I have read, or personal attacks. And if I start treating them as if they are obtuse, well, then I get called an arrogant, elitist, **t*h. I was part of the MSN message board. I really liked the platform, you could check out your past postings, other people's past postings and it was obvious when they were banned. Their avatar reverted to the standard issue and their handle became "former member." The platform also allowed you to trace and contact a member privately. They were good features.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by fabucat58 (September 23, 2009 2:42 pm ET)
                2  
                Yeah, one of them posted that the ACORN scandal was the biggest scandal since Watergate. I guess that someone's been in a coma since 1974 until now!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by epkklk851 (September 23, 2009 3:27 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Well, if it isn't sports or entertainment, many people pay no attention to it. I have watched politics for forty years, I have always been interested, but I am a very nerdy person. I know the difference between the different types of sports, but I could care less who wins and I have never seen a single episode of "Grey Anatomy" "Desperate Housewives" or "Dancing with the Stars" and I only recently learned that "Wide World of Sports" was no longer on TV.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by John Paradox (September 23, 2009 4:39 pm ET)
                       
                    What!? No more 'thrill of victory, agony of defeat'!?

                    Heck, I'm lucky to remember which sport a team plays from just the name and city.
                    Report Abuse
    • Author by rwmacdonald2091 (September 23, 2009 12:06 pm ET)
      5  
      "If we only put as much money into this country's schools as we do its defense, everything would be fine"

      Don't know about you, but wouldn't that be an awfully long bumper sticker?

      The really scary thing about old Glennie's book is someone will actually believe this trash.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wesley (September 23, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
        1  
        -- Don't know about you, but wouldn't that be an awfully long bumper sticker? -- rwmacdonald

        Now that's funny...I don't care who you are.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (September 23, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
           
        Actually it is an even longer bumper sticker than that:

        "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."

        It can be found at lots of sites:
        http://www.northernsun.com/n/s/5729.html
        http://www.stickergiant.com/bomber-bake-sale_b5729.html
        Among other places.

        Glenn misquotes it.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mattcable250650 (September 23, 2009 3:17 pm ET)
        1  
        Actually, I think Beck is paraphrasing from a 1970s poster. My own paraphrase would be: "Wouldn't it be wonderful if the schools had all the money they needed and the Air Force had to hold a bake sale?"
        Not sure whether they ever actually made it into a bumper sticker, but considering America's two closest neighbors are nowhere near the military threat to the US that Russia is to Georgia (Remember, the US military budget during the 20s and early 30s was next to nothing), that's not an outright bad idea.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (September 23, 2009 12:20 pm ET)
      3  
      I'd bet that ole dollar to that old donut that Beck has a worn out copy of "A Face in the Crowd" about the huckster Lonsesome Rhodes sitting next to his TV.

      -- I'm not just an entertainer. I'm an influence, a wielder of opinion, a force... a force! -- Lonesome Rhodes
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mikelartist (September 23, 2009 12:26 pm ET)
      5  
      I am laughing so hard I am weeping.

      [http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz152/bugeyeddork/weepy_the_clown.jpg]
      Report Abuse
    • Author by srichardson (September 23, 2009 12:36 pm ET)
      5  
      The fact that Glenn Beck is a famous conservative blowhard is truth to the fact that we MUST spend ALOT more money educating America. I'm a teacher and it pains me to realize that people can no longer think or problem solve for themselves, they turn to people like Mr. Beck to help them form their opinions. That's what will be the downfall of America, not socialism.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (September 23, 2009 12:46 pm ET)
        3  
        But, he's not a conservative. The values he spews are not conservatism. The people who idolize him are NOT conservatives, but they like to call themselves that because, in their small minds, there are only two political ideologies. They don't understand that the beliefs espoused by folks like Beck, et al, are far removed from true conservatism.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by srichardson (September 23, 2009 1:45 pm ET)
          1  
          I'll give you that. Your point is taken. But the people that I know who call themselves as conservative love Beck. In my opinion, true conservatism has a religious value to it that is admirable and neither Beck nor his cohorts exhibit true Christianity. And that is damaging. It's time that true conservatives stood up for their values and stopped allowing people like Glenn to talk in their place.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (September 23, 2009 1:53 pm ET)
            3  
            As a liberal Christian, srichardson, I streunuously object to my faith being turned into a cudgel by the Right to beat those with whom they disagree. I see very little if any of the Bible I read in the lives of Glenn Beck, Pat Robertson, Reagan, Hagee, etc.

            I suppose I'm partly to blame for reading the Bible and not just blindly accepting what everyone else says about it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by srichardson (September 23, 2009 2:19 pm ET)
              4  
              In all honesty, people such as Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and others do more harm to the cause of Christ than those who outright denounce religion. People are sick of the hypocrisy and it is a sad day in America when if you are a conservative democrat or conservative liberal you are booed by the right. They question the faith of liberals, who care about those less fortunate, who want to feed and clothe the poor, who want to provide healthcare for all!! If they are reading the same Bible that I do, maybe they'd see Jesus was probably a LIBERAL.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by BobfromBobsville (September 23, 2009 12:57 pm ET)
         
      The two real questions: 1- Have we ever seen such a level of crazy? and 2- by discussing his crazy aren't we giving him a chance, using that corrupted logic of his, to justify his going on with it? Isn't it time to start ignoring this clownboat?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (September 23, 2009 12:58 pm ET)
      4  
      More from Lonesome "Glen Beck" Rhodes:

      -- This whole country's just like my flock of sheep! Rednecks, crackers, hillbillies, hausfraus, shut-ins, pea-pickers - everybody that's got to jump when somebody else blows the whistle. ...They're mine! I own 'em! They think like I do. Only they're even more stupid than I am, so I gotta think for 'em. --

      Forget reading his book...just watch the movie "A Face in the Crowd" about the rise and fall of Lonesome Rhodes.



      Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (September 23, 2009 1:02 pm ET)
      3  
      HA! I saw that book at Borders yesterday and couldn't get over the title.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by SLRTX (September 23, 2009 1:21 pm ET)
      4  
      Becky is arguing with those voices in his head.

      And, I do think he believes he's winning.

      BTW - The last time I saw anything arguing with a bumper sticker, it ran on 4 legs and barked after the car it was chasing.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 23, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
        4  
        I remember those bumper stickers. I was just a kid when I first saw them, but I understood the point. I promise not to let it go to my head that I was smarter at 10 years old than Beck is as a middle aged man.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by sbreader (September 23, 2009 1:30 pm ET)
      5  
      Simon,

      The bumper sticker which you stated you were unfamiliar with is somewhat dated--perhaps it's before your time--but it is easily one of the ten best liberal bumper stickers of all time.

      "It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber." T-shirt with slogan

      As usual, Beck is mischaracterizing. The sticker does not state that all money being spent on the military should be given to the schools; it is instead claiming that the military is fully funded but the nation's education system, by contrast, is not.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 23, 2009 1:36 pm ET)
        1  
        OOps,I should have refreshed sbreader.When were those first around, the 70s?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (September 23, 2009 1:52 pm ET)
          3  
          Google search showed me that it was from WILPF (Women's International League for Peace and Freedom in 1979.

          http://www.wilpf.org/
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (September 23, 2009 1:56 pm ET)
            3  
            Oh no! Not Peace and Freedom! Anything but Peace and Freedom! How about fascism and war? Isn't that better? (nodding encouragingly and smiling vacuously like any good Beck supporter should)

            (/snark)
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 23, 2009 2:06 pm ET)
            2  
            Thanks, DD. I could swear they were around before then, maybe you found the first mass produced ones. I was thinking early 70s.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 23, 2009 4:15 pm ET)
                 
              I thought there were posters saying that in the late 60s. It was usually seen alongside "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"
              Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (September 23, 2009 7:00 pm ET)
                 
              If you can find another source claiming an earlier origin, I won't dispute it - just telling you what I found.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (September 23, 2009 1:44 pm ET)
      1  
      The bumper sticker is an older one, and is hyperbole. No one actually argues that all of our national defense spending is useless.

      It Will Be a Great Day When the Schools Get All the Money They Need and the Air Force Has to Hold a Bake Sale to Buy a Bomber!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wrmurray (September 23, 2009 2:07 pm ET)
         
      Hmmm...Mr. Maloy's article and the views that I've read so far seem to carry a consistent drumbeat: "Negativity towards anything or anybody that is conservative". Even with our liberal president, I find him saying and doing things that are actually good. I'm just open to things that make sense. We exist in a society where it seems that discussions/shouting matches are based upon media "talking points"; there seems to be very little critical thinking involved. Most will read/skim Beck's book with a pre-existing predjudice, looking only to pick out points that make their case/point. The left and right both use this tactic, which usually keeps us as a nation gridlocked. I'm not happy with either the Republicans or the Democrats; both sides have their "cukes" and all can do much better with the politics.

      I guess the main point I want everyone to get is that we should be more individual oriented rather that party affiliation. That way, we'd be more apt to coming together as a nation and solving our many problems. Take care all.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by WorldViewer (September 23, 2009 2:50 pm ET)
      1  
      I've seen the bumper sticker many times, but the rest of what Beck writes as quoted here is pure B.S.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 23, 2009 3:43 pm ET)
      1  
      So we've moved on from Arguing with Idiots to Arguing with Bumper Stickers. I can't tell if that's a step forward, backward, or sideways.
      It's no surprise that Beck lost the arguments with both idiots and bumper stickers.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by bilbo_dies (September 23, 2009 4:52 pm ET)
         
      If anyone should ever have a conversation with anyone about Becks book, Arguing with Idiots, it should be pointed out that the onle idiot involved is Glenn Beck himself. He is the only "idiot" that I have ever heard uttering the statements that he is arguing with.

      Someone needs to write a book "Educating Morons", that points out the falacy of the logic of people like Glenn Beck.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by applejack (September 24, 2009 6:56 pm ET)
           
        My goodness, Glenn Beck seems to have hit a nerve. I wasn't going to buy his book, but based on the comments on this page, I am going to stop at the barnes and nobel store on the way home from work tonite. It must be a great book.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by takizen (September 23, 2009 5:05 pm ET)
         
      Will someone please explain the "straw-man" reference in this title?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ninersfan63 (September 24, 2009 3:44 pm ET)
         
      "It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.",
      posted on Daily Kos by Lucky Duck on 12/11/2004.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wheatthlns (September 24, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
         
      This is a slightly disingenuous (or just sloppy) review. The point of the book, from what can be gleaned from the press blurbs and Amazon.com plug - is not "Glenn Beck: Arguing With Idiots That I Have Personally Encountered"; it is simply "Arguing with Idiots". One is general, one is specific. Surely we know the difference here. I understand the author of this piece (the article) has a need to point out faults of the so-called "right wing" establishment, but you can do it a lot better by resorting to your own straw-man argument (however if that was the point, kudos).
      Report Abuse

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