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October 05, 2009 11:42 am ET by Jamison Foser

For the second straight week, New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt devotes a column to claims that the paper's supposedly-inadequate responsiveness to right-wing yelling about ACORN proves that the paper demonstrates liberal bias.  This time, Hoyt's hook is reader response to his previous column.

This latest column does show some improvement: This time, Hoyt went to the trouble of acknowledging that not everybody thinks the Times is biased in favor of liberals.  That's quite an improvement.  Still, glaring flaws remain, most notably that Clark Hoyt has yet again managed to get through an entire column about whether the Times demonstrates liberal bias without using the words "Iraq" or "Gore" or "Whitewater."

That's a bit like writing a column about whether the Atlantic Ocean is a desert without ever mentioning all the water.

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    • Author by pointofview (October 05, 2009 11:55 am ET)
        7
      This time, Hoyt went to the trouble of acknowledging that not everybody thinks the Times is biased in favor of liberals


      However, many do feel that the paper is biased to liberals. That is the point. Just because MMFA does not agree, does not mean that the problem is not real and worthy of discussion.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mk3872 (October 05, 2009 12:18 pm ET)
        2  
        Just because a newspaper does not buy into right-wing conservative ideals and falsehoods does not mean that they are then in return "liberal". They're just being factual.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (October 05, 2009 12:56 pm ET)
        4  
        But no one said or implied that your viewpoint shouldn't be acknowledged, twit. The problem was that the opposing viewpoint, that there's limited evidence that the New York Times isn't liberal has to be discussed also, and it wasn't previously.

        Your viewpoint, that the newspaper leans left, is the position that the questioner held, so that was raised. Are you really this unable to comprehend the written word?

        We don't believe the problem is real, but that's a matter of opinion, and when it's being discussed, it's only fair to talk about both sides of the argument. We've seen plenty of evidence that you're not willing to talk about both sides of an argument though, since you have no shame.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by pointofview (October 05, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
            1
          Well dolly, I see you have the insults down pretty good. I suppose calling someone a "twit" is supposed to make your argument look stronger. Since no objective observer would claim that the NYT does not have a liberal tilt, I suppose insults are all you have to go with. You are as always amusing.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (October 05, 2009 3:42 pm ET)
               
            An objective observer would, of course, assume that the NYT doesn't have a liberal bias. The evidence is overwhelming that they don't.

            The fact that you think an impartial observer would come to the exact opposite conclusion is all the evidence I need to conclude that you are a twit. I backed my description of you as a twit in several ways above. Your suggestion that my description of you was a baseless insult and not accurate? Not so much.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (October 05, 2009 5:28 pm ET)
               
            Actually, the majority of OBJECTIVE observers would claim that it does not have a "liberal tilt." POV . . . just because something you read does not comport to your phony "conservative" viewpoints doesn't mean it has a "liberal tilt." Believe it or not, sometimes news and facts are just that . . . news and facts.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by galileonardo (October 05, 2009 3:32 pm ET)
            2
          "We don't believe the problem is real, but that's a matter of opinion, and when it's being discussed, it's only fair to talk about both sides of the argument."

          Excuse me while I LOL. This, coming from you? Only fair? Puh-lease. So civil of you. You are so very respectful and willing to listen to both sides, I know. Like our enlightening and civil discussion on AGW over the last few days. Practice what you preach, (to borrow a phrase from you) dummy. And I noticed you used the term "we." Are you on the MMfA payroll or just a groupie?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (October 05, 2009 3:44 pm ET)
            1  
            It's your side that hasn't got a leg to stand on when discussing AGW, and your arguments have been shot down repeatedly. The only reason your latest comments weren't thoroughly rebutted was because the thread closed to comments. You have no standing from which to attack me - my sole purpose here is to fight for fairness. You can't say the same.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by galileonardo (October 05, 2009 4:55 pm ET)
                 
              Wrong again. Fairness is a personal cornerstone. My politics run the spectrum as I do not march lockstep with any group or party. It does not appear as though you could say the same. I just find it funny that someone who routinely and vociferously attacks any opposition and often resorts to name-calling would preach fairness. BTW, comments didn't close on that thread for another near 8 hours after I made my last comment. That's nearly a full work shift for you at MMfA.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (October 05, 2009 1:00 pm ET)
        3  
        Yeah, like when the NYT was complicit in the selling of the false WMD claims put out by the Bush Administration? Is that when they were "biased" to liberals? POV, just because something doesn't comport with your phony conservative beliefs doesn't mean it's "liberal," just means it doesn't mean it's liberal, it just means that it disagrees with you. Believe it or not, there are many, many real conservatives who disagree with your "pointofview."
        Report Abuse
      • Author by historygeek001 (October 05, 2009 1:58 pm ET)
        1  
        POV:

        "However, many do feel that the paper is biased to liberals." Many feel that Earth is flat, too. Hoyt wasn't accurate, he didn't address the reality of whether the NYT has a liberal bias, and didn't point out the fact that they're giving equal time to right-wing nutballs as if what they had to say was either accurate or relevant. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between the neocon point of view and actual facts.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (October 05, 2009 6:20 pm ET)
           
        MMFA's position was pretty clear: "That's a bit like writing a column about whether the Atlantic Ocean is a desert without ever mentioning all the water."

        You can't attack that position.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by pros2pros2940 (October 05, 2009 12:18 pm ET)
      3  
      However, many do feel that the paper is biased to liberals. That is the point


      Hmm.kinda like "some say"

      Most people that accuse the NYT of bias don't even read it.

      Friedman is no liberal, neither are Brooks or Douthat.

      The Times helped Bush push for war

      There isn't any truth but "the truth" and just because "conservatives" don't like it doesn't make it biased.

      Hell, try telling "conservatives" that Reagan nearly tripled the debt, Supply-side is a myth, raised taxes 7 times, had 32 officials from his administration convicted, sold arms to Iran, etc.
      Report Abuse

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