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Going back to scientific square one

December 15, 2009 6:01 pm ET by Simon Maloy

Perhaps we've been going about this the wrong way.

Every time a conservative pops off about how climate change is a big hoax and amounts to nothing but a huge conspiracy to blah, blah, blah, the standard response has been to point to all the reams of technical data and in-depth peer-reviewed studies that have accumulated over the decades showing that the globe is warming and that anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are largely responsible.

And, of course, it never works. No amount of detailed scientific data on climate change seems to convince them otherwise. And that's always been a bit of a mystery. At least, it was a mystery until I read NewsBusters this afternoon and saw this headline: "Journalists Freeze Waiting To Get Into Global Warming Conference." Without even the faintest glimmer of knowing irony, NewsBuster Noel Sheppard wrote:

A group of journalists stood for many hours in near-freezing temperatures Monday waiting to get into the United Nations climate change conference in Copenhagen.

Marvelously among them was Associated Press science writer Seth Borenstein who regularly reports on the dire consequences of -- wait for it! -- global warming.

You see, Noel Sheppard thinks that the fact that it's cold in Scandinavia in mid-December means there's no global warming ...

And then it dawned on me. There's a reason all the technical climate science data does nothing to convince conservatives like Noel Sheppard that climate change is real -- because they're too abysmally thick to grasp even the basic idea of latitude.

OK, perhaps it's not fair to call someone "abysmally thick" based on one stupid thing they wrote -- you'd have to look at the entirety of their published works to make such a decision. And that's also the reason why it's stupid to say that a cold day in Copenhagen means there is no global warming. Climate science is the study of how the global climate changes over long periods of time, not the temperature on a given day in one Nordic capital. A cold day in Copenhagen proves nothing one way or the other, nor does the record-high temperature that was set 12 days ago in Albany, New York.

I always knew that for a real debate on climate change to be possible, some basic scientific literacy was necessary. But I never imagined it would have to be as basic as "it's supposed to be cold in Scandinavia."

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    • Author by terrapin53 (December 15, 2009 6:22 pm ET)
      4  
      Where have you been Simon? This has been their answer to the debate from the beginning. It is winter and it is cold out, how can you say there is global warming? That is the right's basis in a nutshell for debunking climate change.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by nerzog (December 15, 2009 6:24 pm ET)
      4  
      "Abysmally Thick" works just fine.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 15, 2009 6:32 pm ET)
        3  
        I think the data on the long-term trend for Noel Sheppard is in the bag.If he picks the winning Lotto numbers today, that would be a meaningless aberration.
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    • Author by johnny_nyc (December 15, 2009 6:36 pm ET)
      3  
      Limbaugh wants to know why you insulate against freezing cold if the climate is warming.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by bilbo_dies (December 15, 2009 7:02 pm ET)
      3  
      Marvelously among them was Associated Press science writer Seth Borenstein who regularly reports on the dire consequences of -- wait for it! -- global warming.

      Well, we could hope that this was a case of sarcasm but; probably not.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by neon desert (December 15, 2009 7:06 pm ET)
      5  
      I've given up arguing with them. Most are still repeating the same old long-ago scientifically debunked denier rhetoric, with no acknowledgement to the more contemporary and widely available refutations to it.

      They like to refer to themselves as "skeptics", but to be a skeptic requires the knowledge to be able to make an informed decision based on all the available facts. I'm just amazed at all the amateur scientists out there who base the minority status of their opinions mainly on a perceived conspiracy among - and partially on alleged ignorance of - the majority of professional climatologists.

      That's shaky ground I wouldn't want to be standing on, myself.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 15, 2009 8:21 pm ET)
        6  
        Smart move, Neon, there's no point in arguing with the deniers. I've just started linking to a couple of good sites with videos that debunk the propaganda, if I respond at all.

        It was funny for a while, but it is pretty boring to click on an item here about some wingnut on the TV pushing BS today and get into a debate with some troll using the arguments that I saw fail here last year.

        I think the deniers have given up trying to argue the science, as lately it seems all they have is attempts to discredit the scientists (with garbage like "Climategate" or personal attacks) or creep around trying to find quotes from Al Gore that don't hold up.



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        • Author by neon desert (December 15, 2009 10:17 pm ET)
          4  
          I know what you mean, lefty. After repeated attempts to relate genuine scientific analysis are met with the same responses ala "they just want to protect their government grants" and "glaciers are always melting", a guy loses enthusiasm.
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        • Author by johnny_nyc (December 16, 2009 12:50 am ET)
             
          Yes, its Swiftboating all over again.

          It seems the rest of the media is falling for it too, once again.

          They may never learn.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (December 16, 2009 8:24 am ET)
        3  
        I love it! Self procliamed "skepics" who need to support a "conspiracy theory" in order to defend their posiotion!

        HA!

        Looking it up in the Dictionary is good enough for me. The scientific debate over "if" and "why" is OVER. PERIOD. It's DONE. The debate has shifted to "how long do we have" and "what do we need to do" and "how bad wil it be." But these guys are stuck on the "why" and the worst of them, most of them employed by Faux News, still argue the "if!"

        They're idiots. True SKEPTICS believe in one thing and one thing only: SCIENCE. Good, hard SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. And if the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY has accpeted the hypothesis of AGW, then the SKEPTIC must also accept it. Otherwise... well, like you said... very un-skeptical words like "conspiracy" start creeping into the discussion!

        ----------------------------------------------------------
        They're not SKEPTICS. They're CONTRARIANS.
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    • Author by MeanMrSpicyMustard (December 15, 2009 7:31 pm ET)
         
      It was about 55 degrees in Dayton yesterday. Knowing that it was BS anyway, I was sure to taunt our local global warming denier about it. I'm kind of a jerk. :D
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    • Author by cghendricks973 (December 15, 2009 8:30 pm ET)
         
      It's not that they are too thick to understand science. They are paid a lot of money by rich corporations who want to continue profiting from burning coal. Their job is to get talking points from the Heritage Foundation and other right wing think tanks and pass on those talking points in order to mold public opinion. There is no thinking or analyzing involved in this process.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mk3872 (December 15, 2009 9:32 pm ET)
      4  
      How can you possibly argue or debate with these people ???
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    • Author by 24enak (December 15, 2009 10:37 pm ET)
         
      You have to explain to them that it is called GLOBAL warming. That it isn't Regional warming, or American warming (it snowed in TX, thus global warming is a hoax).
      Report Abuse
    • Author by New Frontier (December 16, 2009 9:00 am ET)
      1  
      If it happened to be 80 in Copenhagen, you wouldn't hear 'Maybe they're right'. You'd hear: 'But climate has always fluctuated, and anyway-it's the sun and there's nothing we can do about that!'.
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    • Author by ProgLib (December 17, 2009 4:39 am ET)
         
      these wingnuts never learn... they dont know the facts, so they make up their own to try and prove their wild conspiracy theories. as senator franken said, "we are entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts."
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