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Breitbart Starts Big Push To "Go After Teachers" With His Trademark Deception

April 29, 2011 1:59 pm ET by Ned Resnikoff

Andrew Breitbart is at it again. 

A week after he promised to "go after the teachers and the union organizers," his website BigGovernment.com started running a series of choppy, heavily edited videos taken from labor studies courses taught at the University of Missouri-St. Louis and the University of Missouri-Kansas City. The posts promoting these videos claim, among other things, that the professors "instruct students on how fear, intimidation, and, even, industrial sabotage are important and, often, necessary tools," and that they teach their students that the US flag is "racist."

But given Breitbart's history of dishonesty and his declared intention to "go after" teachers and unions, do we have any reason to think Big Government's claims are credible?

In a word, no. And in fact a quick review of the full context of these clips reveals that Breitbart is up to his old tricks again. 

1.) Big Government Edited A Rejection Of Violent Tactics To Make It Sound Like An Endorsement

The opening to Big Government's first video, "Thuggery 101," quotes Professor Don Giljum to make it sound as if he recommends that unions use violent tactics.

Here's a transcript of his remarks as edited by Big Government:

GILJUM: Because I think if you look at labor's history over the years, you'll find that, you know, we've had a very violent history with violent protests-- [CUT]

GILJUM: ...in certain instances, strategically played out, and for certain purposes, that industrial sabotage doesn't have its place. I think it certainly does. But as far as -- You know, and I can't really honestly say that I've never wished, or have never been in a position, where I have haven't wished real harm on somebody or inflicted any pain and suffering on some people--

STUDENT: We're all human.

GILJUM: --who didn't ask for it, but, you know, it certainly has its place.

These comments are very clearly edited, with a jump in the video at the 0:52 mark. But the longer version of those remarks, as obtained by Media Matters, makes clear that Big Government carefully edited around all of the portions where Giljum explicitly rejected violence as an ineffective tactic. Here's a longer video and a transcript with portions that Big Government edited out in bold:

I tend to agree with you, because I think if you look at labor's history over the years, you'll find that, you know, we've had a very violent history with violent protests and reaction to suppression. OK? But as time has changed, the tactics have changed, or the need for those have changed. OK?

Now, you know, that's not to say that in certain instances, strategically played out and for certain purposes, that industrial sabotage doesn't have its place. I think it certainly does. But as far as -- You know, and I can't really honestly say that I've never wished, or have never been in a position where I have haven't wished real harm on somebody or inflicted any pain and suffering on some people--

STUDENT: We're all human.

GILJUM: --who didn't ask for it, but, you know, it certainly has its place. It certainly makes you feel a hell of a lot better sometimes, but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.

Big Government clipped out both crucially qualifying statements, and putting them back in changes the entire context of the quote. Given how they edited it, it's hard to see how you could argue that the deception wasn't intentional.

2.) Big Government Clipped Movie Quote To Make It Sound Like Professor's Own Words

"Thuggery 101" also depicts Professor Judy Ancel saying, "Violence is a tactic, and it's to be used when it's appropriate-- the appropriate tactic." (Around the 1:30 mark.) But as a longer clip of that statement makes clear, those are not Ancel's own words. She was only quoting a person being interviewed in the documentary At the River I Stand, which the class had just watched for discussion purposes. Media Matters has a longer video and a transcript with the key part bolded:

ANCEL: The one guy in the film, one of the guys who had been one of the young SNCC types, said-- What?

STUDENT: [Unintelligible.]

ANCEL: The invaders, thank you. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. Those-- But he represented the kind of thinking that went into the Student Underground Coordinating Committee and then later, probably-- Well, coinciding with the Black Panthers, I'd say. You know, he said "Violence is a tactic, and it's to be used when it's appropriate -- the appropriate tactic."

Whether they-- They never come back to him to ask him what he thought of the window smashing in that march. Or whether or not that was done by them, or others, or provocateurs. We don't know that.

There's nothing in the longer video to indicate that Ancel endorses the position of the man she was quoting. Yet Big Government presents this quote like it was Ancel's own original opinion.

After Ancel and Giljum pointed out that they had been deceptively edited by Breitbart's team, Big Government posted a subsequent rebuttal acknowledging the context missing from the tapes it provided to news outlets. But the editors fail to provide an even marginally reasonable explanation for why they edited the videos in the way they did. Nor do they concede how including it changes the entire meaning of those clips. But that's because the only explanation isn't reasonable: that they intentionally warped the meaning of Ancel and Giljum's words to score a cheap point.

Given what we know about Breitbart, and the given that the first video alone is saturated with dishonesty, how can we take anything about this new Big Government campaign to target teachers at face value?

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    • Author by ThomasJH268 (April 29, 2011 2:03 pm ET)
      12 1
      Lies are the mainstay of FOXPAC so expect Hammity, the three stooges and Oh'Really to have Dim-bart on at least once before the middle of next week
      Report Abuse
      • Author by News Corpse (April 29, 2011 10:32 pm ET)
        7 1
        Who is really behind this video?

        A post on Breitbart's site says that "Insurgent Visuals" acquired and edited the video. Who is Insurgent Visuals?

        Their web site doesn't say. However, I investigated further and I found an old blog on BlogSpot. It was no longer available, but I was able to access it via Google's cache. Once there I found that the contributors to the blog were Bruce Bronson and --- James O'Keefe!

        Who'da thunk it?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by FNC Liberal (April 30, 2011 12:43 am ET)
        4 1
        Except for Glenn Beck. Breitbart is accusing him of lying about him. Liars on a lying news network accusing liars of lying.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by marco21 (April 29, 2011 2:05 pm ET)
      18 1
      Yeah, let's get those filthy rich spoiled teachers.

      These right wingers are just unbelievable pieces of garbage.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by penfan (April 29, 2011 2:38 pm ET)
        20 1
        Michelle Malkin's next book: In Defense of Internment: The Case Against Teachers and Unions
        Report Abuse
        • Author by kamrom (April 30, 2011 2:22 am ET)
          3 1
          We DO need to restructure our education system. Just a wrecking ball should only be used in last resorts. We need to make a better incentive not just for teachers ,but GOOD teachers. because when teachers do poorly, the student, parent, school and community all suffer.

          In high school, I had this horrible history teacher. On the first day, she decided we needed to know about this whole muslim thing, cause 9/11 was like a year or two previous. In attempting to describe the only two muslim groups (she wasnt very smart, as you will soon see..) she tried to create some little meme about how sunni are good because you can jsut think of "Sunny."

          It should be easy to figure out what she said to her students about the 'bad' faction, the shiia/shi'ite. Sadly, i cant put the actual word she used up, because MMFA has obscenity filters.

          This was among the reasons for my dropping out. I somehow did not suspect id get an enriching history lesson. That ANY teacher can get away with such blatant bigotry is disgusting. My english teacher, on the other hand, was bitched at constantly by the admins because he had a sign up in class stating it was a "LGBT safe place." The school tried to make him take it down to be replaced with a military advertisement (they were all over the school, using those stands that they have for maps at malls.)

          We need a system where crap like this doesnt happen. I had a teacher fired for leading a student in prayer, and I saw hundreds of cases of high level harassment that the administration refused to resolve.

          Bullying, bigotry, insufficient funding, overburdend class sizes, republican looting (My school suddenly became 13 million in debt because it was all embezzled and they couldnt get more funding that year, as the law allowed for no exceptions. They also didnt get the stolen money back. Because to hell with students, apparently)...All this and MUCH more is responsible for our awful schools.

          The one thing that isnt responsible for the awful schools is our unions! Theyre the ones keeping it from descending into, well, the rightwing plan of ultimately shutting down public schools, making all private schools christian, and never giving vouchers to any other generaiton (they will also likely never give enough to those who need it actively, and they will utterly dry up forever wen they do.)
          Report Abuse
          • Author by kamrom (April 30, 2011 2:23 am ET)
            1  
            Clarification:

            "describe the only two muslim groups" What I meant by this was, she actually thought there were only the two groups, and didnt know any others existed.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by hawkeye13 (May 02, 2011 12:34 pm ET)
               
            "We DO need to restructure our education system."

            We also need to have parents who read to their children before they go to Kindergarten, who value doing homework over watching TV and playing video games, and who discipline their children when they do wrong instead of blindly defending them no matter what they are guilty of.

            Placing the full blame on teachers is insane. If a student has great support from home where education has always been valued, it almost doesn't matter if the teacher sucks, that student will still learn. But if a student has zero support from home, lives in a home where there is no supervision, physical abuse, drug abuse, not enough food to eat, etc., then even the best teacher in the world would have major difficulties making a difference in that student's life.

            Today's American society doesn't value education like other countries do. We have so many children that come to kindergarten having never been read to, and therefore have a hell of a time learning to read (many never do). We have so many middle and high school students who fail because they simply cannot be bothered to do the work AT ALL. For the people who constantly bash teachers to be blind to this is infuriating.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by ThomasJH268 (April 29, 2011 2:06 pm ET)
      13 1
      I just remembered, Bill Maher has Dim-bart scheduled to be on his show tonight. If Maher and his other guests don't rip him a new one, I'll be sorely disappointed.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by draftedin68 (April 29, 2011 2:29 pm ET)
        7  

        Breitbart's M.O. is full-blown filibustering when asked an uncomfortable question.

        The only way he won't try this tonight is if Bill slips him some 'ludes.

        Hmmmm... that might be kinda fun to watch - they might act as a truth serum.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by wesley_fpt (April 29, 2011 7:07 pm ET)
        2  
        They had him on right after the Shirley Sherrod thing and he actually acted normal..even showed support for the repeal of DADT. I was pretty perplexed that they'd give him the time of day after his credibility had been totally shattered.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by galmud (April 29, 2011 2:16 pm ET)
      8  
      Great! So now if Breitbart quotes let's say Karl Marx in whatever context we can use his own methods and expose him as a secret communist!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by thaneb (April 29, 2011 2:20 pm ET)
      3  
      Will a context-challenged commenter excerpt this: "Giljum explicitly rejected violence as an ineffective tactic" and write that "MMfA admits that Giljum accepted violence as an effective tactic!" ?;o
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wookie (April 29, 2011 2:22 pm ET)
      10  
      1.) Big Government Edited A Rejection Of Violent Tactics To Make It Sound Like An Endorsement


      That's so unlike Breitbart! I can't belive he failed to live up to his normally high standards!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by pete592 (April 29, 2011 2:36 pm ET)
      9  
      What a wonderful job conservatives and right-wing professional liars are doing at inspiring our young people to consider teaching as a career.

      With all this smear, blame and lies being directed at what used to be widely considered a noble profession, how can students possibly resist putting in all the hard work and investment required to become a teacher?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (April 29, 2011 3:23 pm ET)
        5  
        I think it's a new front in their campaign to destroy the Public School System, as well as what's left of unions.

        The Troglodytes are intoxicated with hubris right now, and they're gradually dropping all pretense. A budget plan that privatizes Medicare would have been unthinkable five years ago, yet the Teabagger House of Representatives just passed one.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (April 29, 2011 3:29 pm ET)
        5  
        It's the Ayn Rand in them. Teachers don't hawk merchandise therefore they are parasites living off of the taxes of the "producers"...
        Report Abuse
    • Author by mk3872 (April 29, 2011 2:41 pm ET)
      9  
      Going after teachers ?

      Real nice.

      Only when the country is run by billionaire conservatives like Murdoch & Koch will idiots like Breitbart be happy.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by beDecent (April 29, 2011 2:45 pm ET)
      9 1
      Why go after the people who are educating our future, Brietbart? You know we're all mortal, right, and one day you won't mean a thing to America?

      Why do you hate America? Why do you want to sabotage its future?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (April 29, 2011 3:03 pm ET)
      6  
      After Ancel and Giljum pointed out that they had been deceptively edited by Breitbart's team, Big Government posted a subsequent rebuttal acknowledging the context missing from the tapes it provided to news outlets. But the editors fail to provide an even marginally reasonable explanation for why they edited the videos in the way they did. Nor do they concede how including it changes the entire meaning of those clips.

      Of course they didn't. Once again, we see how conservative journalism works. These guys come to a conclusion, first. Then they collect "evidence" to corroborate their initial conclusion, and when said evidence doesn't agree with what they concluded (professors are pro union violence) they deceptively edit the evidence to make it say what they really want it to say.

      BEHOLD! BIG JOURNALISM!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Gary Herstein (April 29, 2011 3:18 pm ET)
      5  
      Despite the fact that both administration and teachers agree that the videos were doctored in order to fabricate a false conclusion, one of the adjunct teachers was fired anyway. This kind of dismissal can be a career-ender:
      The Shirley Sherrods of Academe?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne1 (April 30, 2011 10:49 am ET)
        1  
        Gary, thanks for posting that link. This is the way universities are now run. It's all about money (keeping the alumni happy and donations flowing) and churning out people that can fill a cog in the machinary, not about teaching students how to think critically or question authority.

        My sister is a PhD from Harvard and has decided to leave the ranks of her present university in order to attend PA school. She says the atmosphere now is that the teachers get graded by the students and of course teachers that give courses that are easier to pass get raises and promotions. I.e., they're treating students like clients. It's not about actually educating students anymore, at least in some institutions.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 3:22 pm ET)
      2 23
      Now, you know, that's not to say that in certain instances, strategically played out and for certain purposes, that industrial sabotage doesn't have its place. I think it certainly does. But as far as -- You know, and I can't really honestly say that I've never wished, or have never been in a position where I have haven't wished real harm on somebody or inflicted any pain and suffering on some people-- who didn't ask for it, but, you know, it certainly has its place. It certainly makes you feel a hell of a lot better sometimes, but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.


      Only MMFA would call that and explicit rejection of violence. He is actually talking about actively wishing pain and suffering on people. At best he is only opposed to violence because it might do more harm than good. He defiantly has no problem with the violence itself. His remarks clearly show if he thought they could use violence to further their cause he defiantly would not have a problem with that.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (April 29, 2011 3:26 pm ET)
        13  
        Only someone who read what he said would call it a rejection of violence. Because, he keeps saying, he rejects it.

        I don't think what he said is what you read.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 3:49 pm ET)
          1 19
          Where does he say her rejects violence?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by m.welker (April 29, 2011 3:55 pm ET)
            11  
            Quite frankly, the violence that seems to be being referenced took place when big business was using the National Guard as its own armed thugs to disperse strikes. So at that time, when you are being shot for asking for higher wages, yeah maybe turning the other cheek isn't at the front of the line of useful tactics. Using violence can be justified when you are facing extreme violence a priori to your own.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 4:21 pm ET)
            11 1
            RIGHT HERE

            It certainly makes you feel a hell of a lot better sometimes, but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good

            Adult education. Look into it
            Report Abuse
            • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 4:46 pm ET)
              10 1
              And let me point out....since they will jump on your statement (as they already have) and say that "he just doesn't feel right about it now...but he would blow people away then." He says "the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here"....that means that we don't have the national guard lined up killing people who are expressing their discontent....he means that you don't have union organizers being murdered for daring to stand up against textile companies that killed them with white lung and 15 hour days....although threat and intimidation is alive and well. Living in those times and through those events called for a different "tactic" from parties involved.

              It isn't just soldiers who have died for your freedom...all that we enjoy as a quality of life in our labor is due to the efforts of labor unions. Even here in SC...the "unions are evil" state...I know that life would be different without the established norms or our rights as workers.

              For all you who hate unions...I wish I could transport you back in time...
              Report Abuse
              • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 4:58 pm ET)
                8 2
                While I understand what you are saying that is just the reason he IS rejecting violence if they are saying he isnt inherently against violence and this isnt a good enough reason that is another discussion alltogether what he said WAS a rejection of violence NOW.

                I have been a member of the UTU, a transportation union for more than thirty four years and couldnt agree more. They used to shoot us like ducks. Check out the year of the great upheaval 1877. Or the book STRIKE by Brecher
                Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (April 29, 2011 5:34 pm ET)
            5 1
            it certainly makes you feel a hell of a lot better sometimes, but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.


            Read the part that was left on the cutting room floor, highliter.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Conchobhar (April 29, 2011 3:29 pm ET)
        5  
        He defiantly has no problem with the violence itself.
        And you are, yourself, a pacifist?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 3:51 pm ET)
          1 17
          In terms of political discourse yes. This guy clearly would use violence to further his political agenda if he thought it would help. But he is not quite sure it would help so he this maybe it’s not right at this time.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by raddave43 (April 29, 2011 3:54 pm ET)
            8  
            but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.


            Doesn't sound like someone willing to use violence to further his political agenda.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 4:03 pm ET)
              1 15
              He clearly says he not sure and only because it would not be beneficial. Therefore if it were beneficial he wouyld have zero problems with using violence.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by raddave43 (April 29, 2011 4:23 pm ET)
                5  
                I guess you missed the part where he said today it would not be called for.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 4:46 pm ET)
                    15
                  Actually he said he was not sure.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mikehuck76 (April 29, 2011 4:52 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Wow. You have really devolved into lunacy, hiligher. Seek help.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 4:59 pm ET)
                      1 15
                      who didn't ask for it, but, you know, it certainly has its place. It certainly makes you feel a hell of a lot better sometimes, but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.

                      can you read?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:10 pm ET)
                        5 1
                        Obviously he can the question is can YOU read?
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by bintx (April 29, 2011 5:36 pm ET)
                        5 1
                        I think it would do more harm than good.


                        Did you read this part? Apparently, you have difficulty with critical thinking.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck76 (April 30, 2011 11:39 am ET)
                        3  
                        Yeah, I can read just fine. Unfortunately for you, I can read every post you type. It is what makes me sad.
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 4:26 pm ET)
                5 1
                NO he didnt. He said it wasnt like he never WISHED ANY harm on someone or inflicted ANY pain or suffering on someone WHO DESERVED IT, but...

                That isnt really talking about meaningful violence and is so vague it is virtually meaningless. You make it sound like the guy is a terrorist ready to murder or blow people up and he isnt even in the BALLPARK of talking about meaningful violence with that statement.

                It also doesnt really specify anything that can be called violence in any meaningful way. What does who deserved it mean, what does ANY pain mean.

                You are reaching to push your predetermined agenda driven opinion
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Adendrools (April 29, 2011 6:15 pm ET)
                3  
                Are you a moron? Let try this: She's clearly not a blond so he must be a brunette. Is the preceding statement true or are there other possible answers? You really are this stupid huh?
                Report Abuse
          • Author by m.welker (April 29, 2011 3:56 pm ET)
            5  
            I quote myself:

            Quite frankly, the violence that seems to be being referenced took place when big business was using the National Guard as its own armed thugs to disperse strikes. So at that time, when you are being shot for asking for higher wages, yeah maybe turning the other cheek isn't at the front of the line of useful tactics. Using violence can be justified when you are facing extreme violence a priori to your own.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by m.welker (April 29, 2011 3:52 pm ET)
        3  
        but beyond that I'm not sure as a tactic today, the type of violence or reaction to the violence we had back then would be called for here, and I think it would do more harm than good.


        Seems like you might have overlooked part of what you included in your own post.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 4:01 pm ET)
        11  
        This is what he said...."You know, and I can't really honestly say that I've never wished, or have never been in a position where I have haven't wished real harm on somebody or inflicted any pain and suffering on some people-- who didn't ask for it."

        So....you are saying, highliter, that when you find out about the beheading of Daniel Pearl or Nick Berg that you don't "wish real harm or pain....or pain and suffering" on the terrorists?!? Oh...and when 9/11 happened you were just "meh...so what" about it? Though I realize it was a guilty pleasure, I played Toby Keith's "boot in your ***" for therapy in those early days.

        The problem the universities have is that they are easy targets for this crap. They actually talk about things in REALITY....challenging the students to examine and evaluate the world around them. The professor was reflecting on his own humanity and how WE ALL have moments of anger or rage at a given situation....it's how we react to those feelings that defines who we are.

        You all complain so much about "the rediculous politically correct libs!"....yet here you are saying that someone can't talk about the reality of life and a given situation because it sounds bad.

        Pathetic.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 4:06 pm ET)
          1 16
          You are comparing labor disputes to murdering terrorists. Not quite the same thing.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 4:13 pm ET)
            9  
            Yes it is when he was saying that he can't say that he has never wished someone harm....he wasn't talking about ONLY in labor disputes...he was talking about ever...you can't be that thick. He was trying to explain that THEY felt AT THE TIME that it was necessary to further their cause and that he has felt anger and rage at people or a situations so he can't speak from up on a high horse (which doesn't stop Fox News). BESIDES the fact that they were being shot at as has been pointed out. All protests didn't happen like the one down at your local rec center....some were all out wars!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne1 (April 30, 2011 11:08 am ET)
              4  
              Oh forget trying to talk to the eejit. He's one of those that couldn't understand a general concept if his life "literally" depended on it. He's THAT literal, ha! And he's also one dimensional and binary in his thinking. Oy.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 4:28 pm ET)
            8 1
            Do you have any idea how many workers have been KILLED in labor disputes through the years. The US has had by far the most violent labor history of any industrial country.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 4:43 pm ET)
              2 14
              The US has had by far the most violent labor history of any industrial country.


              Please provide statistics to back up this absurd accusation.

              Or should I just pull a kabniel and scream YOU LIE!!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 4:57 pm ET)
                12  
                Since you are too lazy to do your own research here's one:

                Opening sentence of Chapter 8 in The History of Violence in America: A Report to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, ed. Hugh Davis Graham and Ted Robert Gurr, 1969.
                --"The United States has had the bloodiest and most violent labor history of any industrial nation in the world."
                you can read on for yourselfYour text to link here...
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:09 pm ET)
                  1 16
                  Oh so you found someone opinion not quite a stat now is it. All you link proves is we have had violence it does not compare that violence to any other countries. Therefore there is no actual proof to back up his statement
                  of The United States has had the bloodiest and most violent labor history of any industrial nation in the world.
                  Other than that he says so. Kabniel statement was
                  The US has had by far the most violent labor history of any industrial country.
                  I’m too lazy to do my own research? I’m not the one who made the assertion.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:20 pm ET)
                    11 1
                    So on OUR side we have a report from two academics in their field and on the other YOUR OPINION. Gee lets try to figure out which has more weight.

                    Give it up. Were you marginally informed on this issue you woudnt even blink about that statement.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:24 pm ET)
                      1 16
                      The report did not compare US violence to other countries. It is irrelevant. Oh ya I don’t have anything on my side nothing like people fleeing oppression, violence, starvation and death in Europe to come to the terrible United States.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:31 pm ET)
                        11 1
                        The report SAID we had the most violent labor history of any industrial nation. EXACTLY my claim. It isnt meaningless it is just evidence I am right. You reject it ONLY because you WISH you were right and you dont CARE what is true just what you want to believe
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 6:20 pm ET)
                        11  
                        It is becoming painfully clear that you are unarmed in the battle of wits. Why do I have to go and compile all the stats when they have alreayd been complied in the report. I realize you haven't read the report...it has too many words, but it might be worth looking at to answer your challenge of the statement about our labor history.

                        As I try to figure out your post here I hit several problems:

                        --Are you saying that since Europeans, who were starving and oppressed, came to the United States then we DIDN'T have the most bloody labor history of any industrialized nation? You do realize that the mass European immigration happened at the turn of the century...BEFORE the height of the bloody labor history, right? hmmmm...I don't think you knew that.

                        --If you ARE saying that and then using that as the basis of why our statements and those of a legislative report with enough data to fill a novel (or chapter book as you probably call it) are incorrect and your assumption is correct then boy don't you look silly!

                        --Finally...are you saying that we are saying that the US is terrible because it has the most bloody labor history of any industrialized nation? People here may have differing opinions, but I, for one, think that is one of the reasons why we are so great. We will not allow our right to be stripped from us. We will fight for what we believe is right...not cower in a corner and be thankful we have what someone else has allowed us to have "cause it could be worse"....no...we say we have rights that no one can take away.

                        You see how you all are on the wrong side of history....AGAIN! You claim to love the Constitution and the Declaration and all the founding fathers...yet you care so little for the vary things they stand for. There is corruption in today's unions but not all of them and not complete corruption...no more than when humans try to run anything else.
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:12 pm ET)
                6 1
                No I dont. You are just far too stupid to have any idea what you are talking about. RR took care of it for me but if you look into this issue it is beyond obvious. YOUR ignorance is not MY problem
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:19 pm ET)
                    12
                  Ahh so you cant actually prove it. Got ya.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:22 pm ET)
                    8 1
                    What do you want a trestise. RR gave you an observation from a national report by two academics. AHHH so you just reject reality because you dont approve? Gotcha. Backup was given either show contradictory evidence or admit you are just pathetic and stupid
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                    • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:31 pm ET)
                      1 14
                      Communism is responsible for the death of 10's millions. Far Far Far more deaths that our labor disputes ever did. You may not consider these deaths to be labor disputes but they are since the communist government controlled the labor. They simply killed or imprisoned those who didn’t agree. So when you compare the relatively few death brought on by capitalism's labor dispute against Communism's mass murders and imprisonments your argument holds little water.
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                      • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:35 pm ET)
                        10 2
                        I dont consider them labor disputes for a very good reason. They are NOT. I also dont count all the deaths due to starvation in CAPITALIST countries to be labor disputes.

                        I made a claim. I showed it is agreed with by academics. You try to change the subject and snivel about Communism which I am not defending. Dodge, run, spin, avoid factual reality at all costs it will not change anything. Reality is not dependent upon you believing it to be, you know, REALITY
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:39 pm ET)
                          1 14
                          You cannot dismiss the death caused by communism. That form of government flat out killed or imprisoned anyone who dared dispute their labor practices. You cannot point to a single actual fact to back up you claim other that you found some liberals so call academics that agree with you.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:51 pm ET)
                            9 2
                            You are a LIAR. I dont dismiss deaths by comunist regimes anymore than I dismiss the deaths due to capitalist dictators or starvation in capitalist countries they are just not LABOR DISPUTES. Your scattershot attempts to change the subject are weak.

                            I HAVE put up facts all you have is stubborness and an inability to look at factual reality. Be as brainwashed as you want. Show everyone how little you know about what you are talking about. Its all good for me
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                          • Author by ThomasJH268 (April 29, 2011 9:51 pm ET)
                            6  
                            You cannot dismiss the death caused by communism.


                            I dismiss the definition of "communism" that has been used since the 1950s to stifle any form of dissent against the corporate fascist plutocrats that started to take over Washington with their lobbyist dollars. Anyone that didn't tow the line was blacklisted, discredited and financially ruined. The United States became more like the Soviet Union when the conservatives were fighting "communism" in the 1950s. And with people like the FOXPAC tea-tards, history will repeat.

                            Only this time, we'll have FOXPAC cheering on the fascists and convincing their moron followers that it's for their own good
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                      • Author by RealRepublican (April 29, 2011 6:48 pm ET)
                        10  
                        You have crossed into realm of the fantastical....You do realize the communism is a governmental structure and not an economic structure, right? The fight over communism is a fight over how a given group of people will be governed. So is the American Revolution now a labor dispute? What about the Vietnam War...labor dispute? No governmental.

                        Labor dispute are between workers and companies with political party action thrown in. You might want to read up on...oh....everything before you try again.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:29 pm ET)
                    7 1
                    http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/dissent/v056/56.2.green.html

                    During the previous fifty-year period, seven hundred deaths were recorded in industrial conflicts, though the actual body count was probably much higher. These grim facts mean that the United State experienced the bloodiest, most violent labor history of any industrial national in the world

                    This is a common theme among academics who study this field. What is YOUR evidence this is NOT true?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:35 pm ET)
                        14
                      Again what is the body count for the rest of the world? Where do these numbers come from? Just because some liberal says it so dosent make it true?
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                      • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:39 pm ET)
                        7 1
                        So you just reject studies by academics because you dont WANT to believe them and keep asking ME to do the work for you to show the sky is blue. To prove something that is widely accepted by those who actually study the field.

                        You look like moron here thrashing around rejecting evidence because you say they are liberals as if that makes them liars. You are pathetic. Enough evidence has been given to show my claim to have merit. If YOU have evidence to the contraty lets see it otherwise you are just being a moron and a jerk
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:49 pm ET)
                            13
                          I reject them because their studies had zero data about the rest of the world. If you going to tell me we are more violent that you better have some ACTUALL NUMBERS to back that up. Telling me stories about violence in the US doesn’t mean squat if you have nothing to compare it to. Its call context.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:55 pm ET)
                            7 1
                            So you want me to list the labor deaths of every industrial country in the world to show you what everyone who is even marginally informed on this issue knows? I gave enough backup to satisfy my statement. You just refuse to accept anything that doesnt agree with your delusional fantasies. If you have counter evidence then cough it up otherwise you are just being stubborn and obtuse
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by dommanno3075 (April 30, 2011 12:27 pm ET)
                            2  
                            I reject them because their studies had zero data about the rest of the world.
                            How would you know? You haven't read them.
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 5:49 pm ET)
                        7 1
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_comparisons_of_labor_unions#Violence_in_labor_disputes

                        Between 1877 and 1968, 700 people have been killed in American labor disputes.[8] In the 1890s, roughly two American workers were killed and 140 injured for every 100,000 strikers. In France, three French workers were injured for every 100,000 strikers. In the 1890s, only 70 French strikers were arrested per 100,000. For the United States, national arrest rates are simply impossible to compile. In Illinois, the arrest rate for the latter half of the 1890s decade was at least 700 per 100,000 strikers, or ten times that of France; in New York for that decade it was at least 400.

                        Between 1902 and 1904 in America , at least 198 people were killed, 1,966 workers were injured. One worker was killed and 1,009 were injured for every 100,000 strikers.[9][10] Between 1877 and 1968, American state and federal troops intervened in labor disputes more than 160 times, almost invariably on behalf of employers.[7] Business was disrupted, usually by strikes, on 22,793 occasions between 1875 and 1900.

                        Other examples of the violence both by and against U.S. union members in the late 19th and early 20th centuries include the Centralia Massacre, the Great Railroad Strike of 1922, the Haymarket Riot, and Copper Country Strike of 1913-1914

                        Six were killed in Centralia, 19 were killed in the Ludlow massacre, 13 were killed during the Pullman strike, over 100 were killed in the great upheaval of 1877, the National Guard was called in in 1877, 1984, and 1922 and those are just RAILROAD strikes, read about the Coal field wars of the twenties.

                        So can you show which industrial country has a MORE violent labor history?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by highliter (April 29, 2011 5:57 pm ET)
                            12
                          You just compared the US to France. Not quite the entire world. Not the mention you used Wikipedia
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by kabniel (April 29, 2011 6:07 pm ET)
                            8 1
                            This is such a commonly known fact wiki is good enough. Consider yourself spanked on this. I GAVE plenty of evidence to show I had good reason to make that claim. YOU have provided NOTHING but obfuscation and an inability to accept factual reality.

                            I HAD enough evidence to make this claim. Either show counterevidence or admit you are just pitiful and deseprate
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by bilbo_dies (April 29, 2011 6:55 pm ET)
                            12  
                            Shorter lowlighter:

                            "I refuse to accept any evidence that does not support my contentions."
                            Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck76 (April 29, 2011 4:58 pm ET)
            7  
            Wow. How ignorant of basic American history do you have to be in order to believe that people have not been killed over labor disputes? That is frighteningly stupid.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (April 29, 2011 5:38 pm ET)
            6  
            The companies that murdered protesters who were striking for better conditions were absolutely terrorists, highliter. They were trying to scare all of the employees away from unionizing, and they did it by taking the lives of American citizens. Perhaps you are more unfamiliar with your country's history than I thought.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Adendrools (April 29, 2011 6:09 pm ET)
        5  
        "I think it would do more harm than good."

        Is the above statement an endorsement of a thing or the rejection of it, you idiot?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Deluded (April 30, 2011 5:07 am ET)
        2  
        I'll ask you 2 questions:

        1.)Have you ever been angry or indignant/offended at someone before?

        2.)When you were did you wish you could hit said person or wish them harm or suffering in any way?

        If your answer to any of these questions is no, then let me call the pope to canonize you St highliter. Because these 2 things are indicative of normal human behaviour and emotions, it's something that happens to us all the time.

        That's what the guy was referring to. In fact in the rebuttal piece that Big Gov posted, there was an interjection where someone said "We're all Human". Excepting the most pious of saints, there really isn't someone who has never wished ill/harm/suffering on another, especially when they get angry.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by rms (April 29, 2011 3:34 pm ET)
      15  
      Question for hoosier, boulderhippy, et al:

      If conservatism is the beat all, end all of how a country ought to be run, why do you have to lie so much to make your points? You'd think the facts ought to be able to speak for themselves.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by m.welker (April 29, 2011 4:24 pm ET)
        5  
        If you were holding your breath waiting for an answer, I'd advise to stop.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by m_czerniewski (April 29, 2011 3:35 pm ET)
         
      It's especially low of Mr. Breitbart to target my alma mater, UMKC. Should we remind him that some guy named Kobach once put an even blacker eye on UMKC?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Imbecile (April 29, 2011 3:43 pm ET)
      15  
      Using video of college professors to prove that public school teachers are bad is like using video of race car drivers to prove that cabbies drive too fast.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Deluded (April 30, 2011 4:19 am ET)
      2 1
      OMG.

      Just read the rebuttal in big government. All they did was to point out that:

      a.) Ancel misquoted from a movie.

      b.) That the editing of Giljum's interview was valid and even in it's original form it still showed his "true intentions"

      In case you're wondering, that was an article that sought to justify their editing of the interviews (which they admitted to) which painted Ancel as favoring "violent tactics" as well as Giljum "confessing about inflicting pain and suffering"

      Let's take a look at that rebuttal shall we?

      First of all, Ancel's case. Apparently they felt that they were justified in editing her interview because she made a misuote. The actual quote was, according to them from the 1993 film At The River I Stand:
      we saw non-violence as a tactic, and a tactic alone


      Whereas her quote was:

      Violence is a tactic and it’s to be used when it’s the appropriate tactic


      Assuming she was indeed quoting from that movie, they are right saying she misquoted. However they then went on to push the point that because she misquoted, those words were no one's but her own and therefore it was proof that she subscribes to "violence is a tactic", and therefore, editing out the portion of the speech which shows her quoting was legit because those were her own word, he real intentions.

      Are you following the logic here? I can't because I sure don't see any.

      While I admit that misquoting someone means those words spoken do not belong to the source you ascribe them to and therefor can (if no one else has mentioned them) be considered yours. The only way you can prove that those words express your own views/intentions is if you can prove that the misquote was deliberate and misquoted with the intention of expressing one's true belief.

      Big government weren't able to do so as evidenced by this segment:

      That’s when Ancel introduced the idea that “violence is a tactic.” In our view, the fact that she was referring to the film was irrelevant–especially given the fact that she misquoted it, perhaps deliberately


      There can be no perhaps about it there, if you cannot prove she was deliberately misquoting with the intention of expressing her true belief, then you "view" that those were her true beliefs is simply just that, an opinion. And a potentially false one at that.

      Here's a hypothetical situation to show you what I mean. In trying to explain the actions of fundamentalist Islamists, I make a reference to a quote (this is hypothetical too) that the quran states "that, by jihad, Allah instructs all muslims to kill any enemies of their faith whoever they may be". However in reality the Quran says that "jihad means the right to fight if necessary to defend the muslim faith" (don't know if this is exactly true or not, treat it as hypothetical as well). In this instance I misquoted the Quran as extolling violence for Muslims when all it said was they had the right to fight if needed to defend Islam (2 very different things). Does that mean that I believe in and support the view that Muslims can kill anyone they perceive as their enemy? In reality I support no such belief, I simply made an honest mistake. That doesn't mean however that people cannot simply say because I misquoted, that means those words are my own and therefore I support fundamentalist Islamic views.

      In Giljum's instance, the issue is even more clear cut. Big Government pointed out that their editing was valid because it clearly shows him "confessing to inflicting pain and suffering":

      That may not have been the way Giljam would like his quote to have been edited, but it’s a fair edit, in our opinion, and includes Giljam’s confession about inflicting “pain and suffering”


      If you were to look at the part where Giljum made his confession, you can see that it was no confession, but rather a statement of fact. Here's the "confession" which Big Government edited out:

      in certain instances, strategically played out and for certain purposes that industrial sabotage doesn’t have it’s place–I think it certainly does. But as far as–and I can’t really honestly say that I’ve never wished, or have never been in a position where I haven’t wished real harm on somebody, or inflicted any pain and suffering on some people [Interjection: "We're all human."] that, you know, didn’t ask for it, but, you know–it certainly has it’s place


      The underlined part is presumably what they meant by him confessing to "inflicting pain and suffering". Hoever what Giljum is really referring to is a statement of fact, that we're all human, and there is no one who has never ever had a moment where, perhaps in a fit of anger, they haven't wished someone pain or suffering. The interjection says it all, we're all human, and as humans we have emotions and we get angry. Has there never been a time when, being angry or indignant at someone, you haven't wished you could hurt them or make them suffer? Contrary to what they say, this does not indicate violent intentions on the part of Giljum toward anyone! They are trying to equate this to say, Beritbart or Beck saying they want to/would strangle someone, that's a false equivalence.

      A pathetic attempt indeed by Big Government. This apology only proves that they have their predisposed, own biased views of both characters. Without being able to explain the reason for editing the interviews, one can only believe that the actual intent of the editing was to characterize both individuals according to those pre-disposed views. In other words Big Gvernment painted these 2 according to how they wanted them to be painted.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by David2012 (April 30, 2011 9:00 am ET)
      2  
      Breitbart has a reverse Midas touch. Whatever he touches turns into BS.

      If only the world were as simple as men such as he see it.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Maimon (April 30, 2011 9:34 am ET)
      4  
      Wow, Breitbart being deceptive? I'm shocked! Uutraged even!

      Okay, not really. This is a person who gets paid to manipulate opinion by ommission and editing. Any show that has him on should be questioning his methods, motives and goals, not talking with him about the content of his propaganda clips.

      Journalists need to make a stand about who is considered a journalist and what is really a news story and what is manufactured propaganda.

      I think news agencies should be held responsible for claims of their employees. Bloggers are not always journalist. Matt Drudge, Breitbart and O'Keef are simply taking advantage of weak minded people.

      It will never happen. So many americans are ideologically driven rather than driven to want truth or facts.

      I want people to challenge lies, not accept them and spread them. But hey...

      Report Abuse
      • Author by David2012 (May 01, 2011 10:45 am ET)
           
        Andrew Breitbard, by instinct and inclination, is a liar. He thinks it is clever.

        It's not.

        Most people, whether you agree with them or not, are at least honest. He isn't.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by RoadScholar (May 02, 2011 10:46 am ET)
         
      The whole country's on to Breitbart. His tricks are yesterday's hash.
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