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Politifact's Flawed "Lie of The Year" Selection Only Encourages More Lying

December 20, 2011 4:24 pm ET by Jamison Foser

In naming as its 2011 "Lie of the Year" a statement that is, at worst, arguably true, Politifact has inadvertently said more about itself and the media's failure to adequately combat the lies and deception that act as a cancer on American democracy.

Politifact's assertion that it is a lie to say "Republicans voted to end Medicare" -- and that this is the most important lie of the year -- suffers from some basic flaws: Republicans did, in fact, vote to end Medicare; and Politifact overlooked actual lies that have had and continue to have a profound and debilitating effect on the nation's attempts to come out of lingering economic troubles.

Politifact's "Lie of the Year" announcement provides little in the way of actual evidence that the claim is a lie, instead referring readers to previous efforts for its substantive case, such as it is. The weakness of Politifact's ruling that the House GOP budget written by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) did not "end Medicare" can be seen in its April 20, 2011, explanation:

One of the its major features is dramatically restructuring Medicare, the government-run health insurance program for those 65 and older. Right now, Medicare pays doctors and hospitals set fees for the care beneficiaries receive. [...] In 2022 [under the GOP plan] new beneficiaries would receive "premium support," which means they would buy plans from private insurance companies with financial assistance from the government. [...]the Republican plan would be a huge change to the current program, and seniors would have to pay more for their health plans if it becomes law. [...] Both Republicans and Democrats would no doubt agree that Ryan's plan for Medicare is a dramatic change of courseBut we don't agree with the ad's contention that the proposal ends Medicare.

So, according to Politifact, the House Republican plan constitutes a "dramatic restructuring" of Medicare, a "huge change to the current program," and a "dramatic change of course" by ending the direct payment of fees for service and replacing it with a voucher program. In its "Lie of the Year" write-up, Politifact again concedes the GOP plan "dramatically changed the program [for people currently under age 55] by privatizing it and providing government subsidies." That's ending Medicare, just as replacing the armed services with government vouchers for private bodyguards would be ending the U.S. military. As Igor Volsky wrote earlier this month, "closing the traditional fee-for-service program, and forcing seniors to enroll in new private coverage, ends Medicare by eliminating everything that has defined the program for the last 46 years." 

But Politifact concluded in April that "we don't agree [...] that the proposal ends Medicare." That should set off some alarm bells: As fact-checks go, "we don't agree" is remarkably weak tea. As justification for naming something the "Lie of the Year," it's an embarrassment. 

Paul Krugman and Dan Kennedy and Steve Benen and Jonathan Cohn and Jonathan Chait and Matthew Yglesias and David Weigel, among countless others, have debunked Politifact's ruling, which holds that as long as something called "Medicare" has something to do with health care for the elderly, it's a lie to say the program has ended, no matter how "dramatic" the "change of course" has been. Even Robert VerBruggen of the conservative National Review has written that Politifact "does not make a good case" and that the Democratic claim does not "rise to the level of 'lie,' much less 'Lie of the Year.'" 

The incoherence of Politifact's ruling is driven home by its repeated statements that the claim "end Medicare as we know it" is significantly different from -- and more justifiable than -- the statement "end Medicare." This is nonsensical hair-splitting. Medicare isn't a broad concept; it's a specific, concrete program. Ending it "as we know it" is ending it. Otherwise, ending it would require ending it as we don't know it, which would be a neat trick. (Revealingly, Politifact has been confused by their own hair-splitting: After having declared "as we know it" a crucial qualifier on multiple occasions, they shifted course and claimed "the GOP proposal does not 'end Medicare as we know it.'")

So as a fact-checking exercise, Politifact's "Lie of the Year" designation fails badly. But even if one were to stipulate that the underlying claim is false, it would still be a dubious selection as the most important lie of the year. Politifact, which describes "Lie of the Year" as "the most significant falsehood, the one that had the most impact on the political discourse," has now awarded this designation three times. During the three years in question, the most pressing matter confronting the nation has been the persistently weak economy that has millions of Americans out of work and millions more struggling to stay afloat. Efforts to address this economic crisis have been stymied by countless economic falsehoods. But Politifact has yet to choose a lie about the economy as Lie of the Year -- even though one such lie won its 2011 readers' poll:

[T]the winner in our reader poll was the Republican claim that "zero jobs" were created by the economic stimulus.

[...]

The "Zero jobs" claim, which won the readers' poll with 24 percent of the vote, had been a popular Republican talking point that was uttered by everyone from Rick Perry to the National Republican Senatorial Committee. But we concluded it was more a falsehood from last year, when there was more debate about the stimulus, than this year. Indeed, our first fact-check of that claim was in February 2010 -- nearly two years ago.

Note that Politifact doesn't claim that nobody is telling this lie anymore -- indeed, Politifact debunked it again just two months ago. So, at a time when the possibility of further -- badly needed -- economic stimulus is ruled out by nearly all politicians because of the efficacy of the lie that the 2009 stimulus failed to create jobs, Politifact doesn't think it qualifies as "Lie of the Year" because it's been told for too long? How does that make any sense? If anything, it speaks to the impact the lie has had, and continues to have.

This is the first time Politifact's "Lie of the Year" selection has differed from the winner of its reader's poll. Meanwhile, the organization has recently come under withering attack from conservatives who accuse it of being part of "the liberal media's latest attempt to control the discourse." And Rep. Paul Ryan engaged in a public campaign to influence Politifact's choice (in the process repeating claims Politifact has previously declared false.) 

Might that have something to do with Politifact's decision to part with its readers for the first time -- and to avoid its third consecutive "Lie of the Year" that implicates conservatives? This wouldn't be the first time a news organization caved to conservative pressure or strove for a false "balance" that prioritizes criticizing both sides equally over taking a proportionate approach to falsehoods. (Nor would it be the first time such spinelessness served only to embolden conservatives who seek not to influence journalistic outlets but to destroy them.)

In an interview with Media Matters today, Adair denied that the "Lie of the Year" selection was motivated by conservative pressure or a desire for balance.

While Politifact has done some valuable work and will likely continue to do so, its 2011 "Lie of the Year" selection highlights the organization's weaknesses: A tendency towards false balance, an occasional lack of rigor and consistency, and a flawed concept that results in fact-checking differences of opinion and forcing falsehoods into confusing categories like "barely true" that often obscure more than they illuminate

But it is the inevitable consequences of these failures that is the most important part. False balance has the effect of a thumb on the scale in favor of the less meritorious position. Treating a falsehood and the truth as though they are equivalent gives lies -- and the people who tell them -- an advantage in the marketplace of ideas. It encourages politicians who lie to continue to lie, and those who tell the truth to start lying. And it distorts, rather than clarifies, the public's understanding of key issues. Those are things an organization called that calls itself Politifact should avoid at all costs.

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    • Author by MickD (December 20, 2011 4:35 pm ET)
      15 1
      The Kocks Bros., Heritage and all the other Liar Rightwad PACs has made Politifact another Orwellian nightmare. I hope for their sake they answer to MMFA on this one. My guess is no.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ConstanceRifleII (December 20, 2011 9:22 pm ET)
        13 1
        I think Politifact has fallen into the "All sides do it" meme. I mean, that much is obvious from this "Lie of the year" crap.

        Politifact: Here's a hint, no matter what you do, the wingnut right is going to hate on you. Facts are not on their side.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by shaggles (December 21, 2011 2:45 pm ET)
          3 1
          I think it's more a case of them falling into the they-didn't-use-those-exact-words-in-that-exact-order-therefore-you're-lying meme. It's just like Glenn Beck saying he never called Obama a Nazi because he maybe never (publically) said "Obama is a Nazi." Sure he may have said his policies were just like Hitler's or various other things but if he never said "Obama is a Nazi" any accusation of him calling President Obama is a "lie." Politifact is a joke.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by WilliamP (December 20, 2011 4:44 pm ET)
      18 2
      Politifact is now a joke for making this claim the lie of the year when it is, at best, arguably false. But they've been on a downward slide for some time now.

      Politifact showed that it didn't really know what it was doing months ago when they rated Jon Stewart's claim that Fox News viewers are the "most consistently misinformed media viewers", by giving evidence that they are not consistently the most misinformed. Politifact's argument was that Fox viewers weren't always the most misinformed in surveys of media viewers. But Stewart said they the most consistantly misinformed--meaning that they end up being misinformed more often than anyone else.

      Sorry, Politifact, but when you lost me long ago when you showed that you don't even understand English.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Boswell (December 20, 2011 8:25 pm ET)
        7 1
        yep and they keep ignoring patently false statements from FAUX teleprompter readers
        Report Abuse
    • Author by dommanno3075 (December 20, 2011 4:59 pm ET)
      11 1
      It's sad. The St. Pete Times was one of the nation's great newspapers. On my frequent visits to Tampa I much preferred it to the Tampa Trib. But the recent rash of whitewashing right winger lies is a bad sign.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by CrashGordon (December 20, 2011 5:00 pm ET)
      15 1
      When I read this among Politifact's contenders for this year I couldn't fathom why it had been included. It's no secret that the Republicans would end Medicare tomorrow if they thought they could get away with it. Their desire to throw Medicare to the private insurance companies is probably second only to their desire to end Social Security. The fact that they backed Ryan's plan to do just that (basically end Medicare as we know it) was just proof. Politifact failed on two levels: One it wasn't even a lie and two it addressed such a long-standing truth that it didn't even really effect the political discourse of 2011.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by David2012 (December 20, 2011 5:08 pm ET)
      14  
      Ryan stuffed the ballot box on this one, and Politifact went along with it. It's regrettable:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdtP5MP6ikY

      You can call a mule a thoroughbred, but don't expect it to win the Derby.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by David2012 (December 20, 2011 6:13 pm ET)
        9 1
        "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone. "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

        "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

        "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all."

        So true. Just ask Paul Humpty Ryan.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by galmud (December 21, 2011 5:06 am ET)
        4 1
        No doubt about that. But stuffed the ballot box or not

        Politi"fact" 1) manufactured this Medicare lie by turning facts on its head basing their entire argument on flimsy semantics and 2) the Republican lies who took 2nd and 1st place were so flat on its face untrue they practically debunked themselves. Sen. Kyl even admitted his statement was "not intended to be a factual statement". How much more obvious can a lie get when the liar admits he was lying?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by didi (December 20, 2011 5:12 pm ET)
      19 1
      What happened to the outrageous lie that the stimulus created zero jobs?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by CrashGordon (December 20, 2011 5:51 pm ET)
        12 1
        That was the reader's choice and probably was the best contender for LOTY.

        By the way, FactCheck.org is also trying to parse words and say this was a lie, using the same explanations. I still don't buy it.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jonimacaroni1 (December 20, 2011 6:07 pm ET)
      12 1
      Yes, Politifact's decision-making process in this case is fatally flawed.

      They assert that simply because no proposals by Republicans ended Medicare for current beneficiaires that it can't be claimed that Republicans want to end Medicare. That's stupid. Republicans voted to end Medicare. The end date was in the future, but there was a clear end in sight for their proposals!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by steeve (December 20, 2011 6:08 pm ET)
      13 1
      You can't be true and neutral at the same time anymore, and it's going to take the media 50 years to figure that out.

      Is it really that hard to postulate an inequality between political parties? Since that fact is apparently so unthinkable, its truth must therefore be a huge straight news story that merits continuous extensive coverage.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (December 20, 2011 6:19 pm ET)
        16 1
        I'm so sick of hearing "Both sides do it", especially on Morning Joe. It's almost as if they're required to qualify every negative comment with it.

        I seriously doubt that FOX even bothers with the "Both sides do it" blather... they just blame everything on the Democrats.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by jpeagle21 (December 20, 2011 7:10 pm ET)
          1 21
          You don't watch Fox then. They always have someone on to offer the opposing viewpoint. Unlike Maddow and Schultz.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (December 20, 2011 8:02 pm ET)
            7 1
            I've watched Faux and have seen how they manipulate gossip and innuendo into news. They can't even get their graphics correct.
            You've been outfoxed.
            Your text to link here...
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Boswell (December 20, 2011 8:27 pm ET)
            12 1
            you mean the one person against 4-6 they have? the one they always shout over and interrupt?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (December 20, 2011 8:45 pm ET)
            16 1
            Jesus. Rachel Maddow is CONSTANTLY asking wingnuts to come on her show. They don't like to because she's brilliant, an accomplished academic, and she calls BS on lies that get a pass or are promoted on Fox. She is, in short, FAR more qualified than anyone on Fox News.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by RavenRog (December 21, 2011 8:29 am ET)
              1 10
              Rachel Maddow has lied constantly. Her ratings have dropped. She's not credible among independents. Sorry to break the bad news.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by n'est-ce pas (December 21, 2011 8:44 am ET)
                8 1
                Oh really? What lies did Rachel Maddow tell? What bearing does her ratings have on anything? What does any of this have on jpeagle21's original claim that Rachel Maddow never has wingnuts on her show? Why do you post here when you consistently get your idiocy stuffed back down your stupid throat?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (December 21, 2011 12:34 pm ET)
                  1 4
                  Lie
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by n'est-ce pas (December 21, 2011 1:13 pm ET)
                    4 1
                    Nice try, idiot. She didn't lie. PolitiFiction parsed her words and left out context just as they did with their "Lie of the Year" this year. But I do find it awesome that you went to the factchecker most likely not to check their facts. That's pretty telling.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (December 21, 2011 3:15 pm ET)
                    2 1
                    Highliter you back again? did you ever get your Freedom alliance story right?

                    remember how you used a 2009 rating to rebut an article and downgrading in 2010?


                    Freedom Alliance's Charity Rating Falls After CREW Complaint







                    —By Kate Sheppard

                    | Fri Apr. 2, 2010 10:57 AM PDT


                    4


                    .

                    In the days since Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington filed complaints regarding Sean Hannity's charity work, Charity Navigator downgraded its rating of Freedom Alliance from four stars to two stars.
                    Your text to link here...

                    April 5, 2010, - 2:56 pm

                    Responding to Schlussel Expose, Charity Navigator Downgrades Hannity Charity: Freedom Alliance Rating Now Only 2 Stars (“Needs Improvement”)
                    By Debbie Schlussel
                    Your text to link here...

                    You called Debbie Schlussel an arse but it seems the donkey was you.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highliter (December 22, 2011 9:54 am ET)
                        1
                      Your are such an idiot their CURRENT rating is 4 STARS. The information from 2009 is the most current available from Charity Navigator.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by mattcable250650 (December 21, 2011 8:52 am ET)
                9 1
                Erm, it's hardly "news" when you can't provide any details as to exactly when and where Maddow has allegedly lied. The proper term is "unsubstantiated assertion."
                Report Abuse
              • Author by kabniel (December 22, 2011 1:30 am ET)
                1  
                Raven

                YOU are a liar. Maddow is a good journalist and you are just a brainwashed mindless moron spewing out what you were told to think
                Report Abuse
          • Author by ConstanceRifleII (December 20, 2011 9:29 pm ET)
            1 1
            Do you?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Chameo (December 20, 2011 9:37 pm ET)
            13 1
            Maddow not only hosts opposing viewpoints whenever they'll come on her show, she doesn't interrupt them, shout them down, call them pinheads or scoff at them condescendingly while they're speaking. She asks pointed questions and doesn't mince words, but they get much fairer and more respectful treatment on her show than any Democrat or liberal gets on any Fox show.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by my4cents (December 20, 2011 9:44 pm ET)
            8 1
            I watch Fox News. MSNBC rarely.
            If the opposing view point to Ann Coulter is (Democratic Clinton adviser) Dick Morris, you are right.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by jpeagle21 (December 20, 2011 6:18 pm ET)
      3 25
      Gee, who should I believe......a non-partisan fact-checking organization, or an ultra-liberal progressive organization that is funded by George Soros and run by a disgruntled former conservative hit-piece writer? This wasn't just one of Politifact's every-day posts, this was their "Lie of the Year". And, here MMFA is doing a poor job (as always) of trying to debunk it.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (December 20, 2011 6:25 pm ET)
        16 2
        Replacing Medicare with a voucher program would end Medicare as it now exists, replacing it with a vastly inferior system which would leave millions of seniors stranded.

        What Private Insurance company is going to insure a 65 year old person, especially with the pre-existing conditions they're likely to have?

        I'm only 56, and I can't buy insurance on the open market.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by riverdog (December 20, 2011 6:31 pm ET)
          1 18
          I'm only 56, and I can't buy insurance on the open market. ...nerz

          my mom is 84 and she can. costs A LOT, but she can and so can i (55)
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mr. l (December 20, 2011 7:29 pm ET)
            12 1
            *Ahem* I want to make a law where your mom does NOT make enough money to be able to afford adequate insurance. You on board with that?

            THANKS!!!
            Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (December 20, 2011 8:52 pm ET)
            12 1
            Right. Costs A LOT. Most seniors won't be able to afford it. And as time goes on and healthcare inflation, which laps GDP inflation every four years, will drive more and more seniors into choosing medicine or food. 20 years down the road, when you're going to need it the most, the "premium support" offered by the Ryan Plan will assure you nothing but death.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by jpeagle21 (December 20, 2011 7:00 pm ET)
          3 13
          <I'm only 56, and I can't buy insurance on the open market.> - nerz

          That's exactly the point. The changes that need to be made to medicare to make it sustainable can't work in its current state. Therefore, it needs to be changed. The problem is the narrative coming from the democratic party leaders is not that republicans want to change it to make it more sustainable. Instead their narrative is that republicans want to completely end medicare and strip all healthcare from the elderly so they can die in the street. This is a lie. In fact, it's Politifact's "Lie of the year."
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mattcable250650 (December 20, 2011 7:44 pm ET)
            12 1
            I'll go along with the idea that Medicare needs to be changed, but I'd go in the other direction. I saw a lecture by a fellow who examined health care systems all over the world and wrote several books on the subject. The question he asked everybody was "How would a nation best go about designing a health-care system?" The universal answer that everybody repeated was "First, cover everybody. No exceptions. Everyone gets coverage."
            Why is that? Because in a system where you don't need to cover everybody, entrepreneurs/capitalists will try to eliminate as many "liabilities" as they possibly can. They'll try to eliminate care to as many "preexisting conditions" as they possibly can, they'll try and toss off as many potentially costly medical cases as they can (Preferably after they've paid years of premiums, of course).
            Now, if they're constrained by the need to cover everyone, then their competition will move in a positive, non-destructive direction and systems will be built that strive to increase the health of citizens/patients.
            Right now, the US pays about twice what every other industrialized democracy does and gets mediocre, middling results. Yes, that does need to change, but it must do so by covering everybody.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (December 20, 2011 8:50 pm ET)
            12 1
            Medicare costs grow slower than private insurance costs. So it can be validly extrapolated that, since the Republican plan will only allow benefits to increase by GDP +1%, more and more and more and more of the healthcare cost will be borne by seniors during the time of their lives that they can least afford it. So yeah, taking guaranteed publically administered healthcare and privatizing it into a scheme that provides less and less for more and more money is, in fact, ending Medicare. Therefore, both Politifiction and you can suck it.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Chameo (December 20, 2011 9:52 pm ET)
            4 1
            The issue isn't Medicare. It's spiraling medical costs that are driven in large part by enormous health insurance companies that also happen to own enormous national chain hospitals and clinics. It's a system of payment that rewards hospitals and practices for the number of procedures they run rather than rewarding them for good outcomes and a billing system that is about as opaque as it can be made to hide the outrageous charges that make their way onto the hospital bills. It's hospitals that have larger budgets for their advertising and legal staffs than they do for patient care. It's the cost of education that leaves a doctor in a position where he has to make more money to pay off his student loans than he does to live on. It's a billing system that's so complicated you need an entire industry to run it. It's a health care/insurance system that focuses on illness rather than wellness so that when people reach Medicare age, they're far more likely to be diabetic, have coronary artery disease and have higher risk of cancer and stroke than they would have had if preventive care had been emphasized.

            "Fixing" Medicare by privatizing the entire system won't fix any of those things and won't drive down the cost of health care for anyone. Fixing the other things, on the other hand, absolutely will make Medicare more sustainable for everyone.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by jonimacaroni1 (December 21, 2011 1:24 am ET)
              2 4
              The main reason behind spiralling medical costs is that we can now treat so many things that used to disable or kill those who were afflicted with those illnesses.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Chameo (December 21, 2011 2:15 am ET)
                5 1
                That's the main reason for the increased amount of medical treatment. We could be providing those increased medical services far more affordably than we do now, though. Just reducing the incidence of diabetes -- which we could do with regular screenings and treatment for pre-diabetes -- would put a significant dent in the long-term medical expenses in this country.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (December 22, 2011 1:39 am ET)
               
            JPMoron

            Many Republicans absolutly want to end medicare as it is. YOU are a liar this is not a lie. Ryans plan would have the consequence of ending medicare. MANY Republicans want vouchers because the Randinista wing of the GOP has taken over their economic policy platform. We ALREADY have 45,000 people per year DIE of lack of access to healthcare and the GOP is doing EVERYTHING in their power to continue this. They show constantly that all they care about is making sure if the government spends a dollar on anything it is filtered through a rich mans pocket.

            You are a MORON. The changed can absolutely work in its current state it takes a small medicare tax increase we could put EVERYONE in medicare and have a single payer system they pay LESS.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by David2012 (December 20, 2011 6:37 pm ET)
        14 1
        You can believe this. It is the email that Paul Ryan sent out to his supporters, the full text:

        "Dear Friend -

        "I need your vote.

        "Politifact, a non-partisan, fact-checking website, is now taking votes for the 2011 'Lie of the Year,' and one of the nominees is the Democrats' 'Pants on Fire' lie about Republicans voting to 'end Medicare.'

        "Click here to vote now and ensure the Democrats' lies about the Path to Prosperity are exposed.

        "Remember, our budget is the only plan that actually saves Medicare. We know the stakes are high in 2012 - it's a chance to take our country back and get us back on a path to prosperity. We can't let lies by Democrats about our conservative solutions go unchecked.

        "Help me fight the lies, falsehoods, and attacks of the Left by casting a vote to show the Democrat’s lie that Republicans voted to 'end Medicare' is the worst political lie of 2011.

        "Click here to cast your vote now at Politifact."

        ======================================================

        Single payer, fee for service, universal coverage Medicare would be ended by the Ryan plan. He would replace it with an inadequate voucher to buy private insurance and call that "Medicare", even though it would provide nothing like Medicare coverage as it has been known for 45 years. That is the lie, not calling him on what he is suggesting doing.

        So he stuffed the ballot box, and Politifact let him. They are now officially embracing "on the one hand, on the other hand", "fair or not, true or not, it's out there" journalism.

        Bah. Anybody who buys this tripe is either on the take or willfully ignorant.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by jpeagle21 (December 20, 2011 7:08 pm ET)
          1 17
          In order for him to stuff the ballot box, it first had to be on the ballot. Politifact calls out numerous falsehoods throughout the year and they pulled this one to be considered for lie of the year. Even if it hadn't won, the fact that it was on the ballot says a lot. Of course, this is all assuming that your Ryan e-mail is true and accurate. I hadn't seen it before and there is no link.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mattcable250650 (December 20, 2011 7:54 pm ET)
            13 1
            there is no link
            Uh, yeah, ya know why that might be? Maybe because it was an email that wasn't actually posted to a website anywhere. Yes, it frequently happens that a people send out a piece that's mirrored on their website, but that's hardly universally the case.

            Ryan is trying to "stuff the ballot box" via getting his fans and faithful readers to go to Politifact and vote for their bogus, dishonest "Lie" of the year.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (December 21, 2011 1:26 am ET)
            3 3
            Ignorant jerk-off. It's virtually identical to the link provided above where Paul Ryan says these same things!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Deluded (December 20, 2011 6:40 pm ET)
        7 2
        Look at their arguments.

        Those are as "non-partisan" and accurate as you can get.

        Of course you will have to judge them with a non-partisan mind....which, judging from your posts, you will most certainly have trouble doing so.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (December 20, 2011 6:50 pm ET)
        3 1
        "MMFA is doing a poor job" -- no detail supplied, therefore none exists. Your post amounts to a straight-up statement that MMFA did an excellent job. If it were otherwise, you'd have had something to say.

        Suppose the police raid your home without a warrant. Would you say "the police are doing a bad job" or "the police raided my home without a warrant"?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by WilliamP (December 20, 2011 6:56 pm ET)
        4 1
        If MMFA is making a poor argument, then tell us why. Give us a better argument. You say that they always do a poor job--well, how about some examples? Don't you have any specifics for us? Give a few. Tell us what they did wrong. Did they lie? Did they do shoddy research?

        If you can't give specifics, then I have to wonder whether the emperor really has no clothes.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Chameo (December 21, 2011 12:17 am ET)
        5 1
        Well, you can debate which one you believe. I don't trust anyone to do my thinking for me. Way back when the "Road Plan for America" was posted on the Republican budget committee website, I went and read it for myself. You could do the same and reach your own conclusion, just like I did.

        The facts: you will continue paying FICA/SECA just as you do now. When you reach Medicare age -- which will go from 65 to almost 70 -- you will get to go research a bunch of companies (or buy into the advertising they send you) and sign up with one of them to administer your benefits. The government will then pay the insurance company a flat amount for your premiums. If the premium costs more than that, you'll have to make up the difference. If it costs less than that (like that's likely), you'll get a check for the difference to put into a MSA.

        In other words, the Republicans have created a plan where the government takes your money and gives it to a private, for-profit entity to do something that the government is currently doing more efficiently and cheaply than the private, for-profit entities are currently doing it -- and removes the certainty that, when you most need to be able to count on having health insurance, you'll be able to find an affordable health care plan that actually covers your needs.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SMTDL (December 21, 2011 12:44 pm ET)
        2 1
        This is total BS.Under a Ryan plan,the vast majority of retired persons will not be able to get the coverage and real care that current Medicare recipients now receive.The ones who are well-off/rich may be able to buy expensive policies that would,but most will have to hope they stay relatively healthy.Some may find that no one will cover them even with the insurance subsidy(voucher).That is the reality of the Ryan plan and it does no good to say that they are preserving or saving Medicare.They are not and no one will receive anything close to the security that the people who love medicare now have.
        If Politifact wanted to call it an overstatement or exaggeration,maybe so,but it is just not a lie to say that MEDICARE as currently defined would no longer exist.To call it the biggest lie of the year is laughable considering what has spewed out of the mouths of the right wing and the GOP Presidential candidates.!
        To say that the Stimulus created ZERO jobs is just a blatant lie and not a matter of semantics.Every state that balanced it budget on stimulus funds would have otherwise laid off thousands of public employees. The private sector has been adding jobs(albeit slowly) for over 2 years.
        There is no explanation for Politifact's irresponsible selection except for trying to create a big lie from the other side.The rationale explained on their website is pitiful!It didn't work.Informed citizens know who is telling the bigger lies and the right doesn't seem to care that people know they are telling the bigger ones,because they keep doing it!Now Politifact is making it easier for them!Are they soon to become PolitiFOX?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by kabniel (December 22, 2011 1:35 am ET)
           
        JPMoron

        You will believe whoever you are TOLD to believe just like you believe everything you are told to think. You are a liar and a punk just as you always are. Soros? WWWWAAHHHHHH. GOD but you brainwashed morons are pathetic
        Report Abuse
    • Author by classicliberal2 (December 20, 2011 6:32 pm ET)
      10 1
      Politifact, in making this claim, has just made itself a contender for Lie of the Year.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by riverdog (December 20, 2011 7:09 pm ET)
        1 10
        whatever the lie, medicare needs to be fixed. in jan. another huge cut in reimbursements will take place. medicare or something better needs to exist but if it isn't fixed we will all suffer.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Boswell (December 20, 2011 10:14 pm ET)
          4 2
          and you think lying about it is the "fix" needed? how stupid are you?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by skiploader1111 (December 20, 2011 10:44 pm ET)
          3 1
          And that is fixed as in ended.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by jonimacaroni1 (December 21, 2011 1:27 am ET)
          2 4
          Yet again, another example that "riverdog" is "right ON/tommy/jamesB" in disguise.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by riverdog (December 21, 2011 12:06 pm ET)
            1 2
            so stating facts are not well received here unless wraped in a nice liberal bow. fact, medicare reimbursements have destroyed hospitals and medical practices in the US and they are going to drop again by over 20%. hospital closings, dr.s leaving rural areas and the left doesn't care. got it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Another_Cat (December 21, 2011 3:55 pm ET)
              3 1
              But the right cares, right? I mean, just look at Medicare Part D...that doughnut hole was actually full of compassion, right? Not allowing negotiations for bulk pricing was so helpful to patient's pocketbooks, too, yes? I call BS on you.

              Besides which, the Medicare reimbursements you speak of are actually set by examining the Usual Customary Rate...basically the rate at which a doctor or hospital can still make a profit, but being the best value for the money given the cost of equipment and resources that year, for that part of the country. There is more an element of greed or for-(big)profit mentality at work in the hospital closings, etc. you cite.

              There are many things we could do to both "fix" Medicare and the entire healthcare system (not the health insurance system...there's no fixing that), but we won't do those things as long as someone stands to make a very large amount of money from the status quo or, as in the Republican plan, the opposite direction.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by SMTDL (December 21, 2011 1:03 pm ET)
          3 1
          You are correct ,but Ryan's plan doesn't fix it.It moves the cost from Government to the individuals,subject to the same practices from insurance companies who can:
          Deny coverage
          Escalate premiums
          Disallow claims
          Delay payments
          Drop coverage

          How does it ensure that all seniors will receive adequate medical care as Medicare now does??

          There are ways to increase Medicare contributions and reduce actual medical costs.This is an area where capitalism needs more control.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by labman57 (December 20, 2011 7:35 pm ET)
      8 1
      Ryan and his fellow health insurance lobby lackeys in the Republican Party took a "General MacArthur" approach to destroying our nation's Medicare system. His plan would not have made it immediately die -- he simply wanted it to slowly fade away.

      … and with it the ability of future senior citizens to obtain affordable chronic condition treatment and preventative health care.

      Bottom line -- most Congressional Republicans do not have the best interests of the vast majority of Americans at heart ... and every day, more and more Americans are coming to this realization.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Boswell (December 20, 2011 8:31 pm ET)
        5 1
        the vouchers would be tied to inflation only, no matter the actual rise of healthcare costs so over time they would lose value and become worthless. Which is what Ryan wants, to end Medicare.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by datruthfarmer (December 20, 2011 8:11 pm ET)
      9 1
      There is more

      Here is an appropriate analogy of Politifact's lie about the truth:

      Fire the Police and give everybody a voucher to hire private security guards, and when they say this ends the Police force, we will call them liars.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by 4teepee (December 20, 2011 9:30 pm ET)
      8 1
      Politifact's selection shows how committed the U.S. establishment is to targeting entitlement programs.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by grmce (December 20, 2011 10:22 pm ET)
      7 2
      Like so many in mainstream journalism the folk at Politifact have withered under the sustained fire of the Right Whinge Commentariat who have been bleating for decades (at least back to the Nixon years) about how the media hates them and is grossly biased against them, boo hoo.

      The cowardly reaction of the "professionals" to these infantile rants has been to accommodate the little sooks and their tanties with a "There, there, we know that they do it too and we'll punish them when they do".

      They then look for anything, particularly accusations of egregious behaviour by Conservatives, that they can manipulate into something less than truthful and point to it loudly proclaiming "Look, look, we caught them at it and we reckon it's the Super Duper Pants On Fire Ultra Whopper Porky Pie Of The Year! See we are fair and non partisan. Please stop saying those nasty things about us."

      Politifact has shown a willingness, nay eagerness, to pounce on any leftish rhetoric, imagery or logical conclusion that really cuts and to analyse it in the most literal, isolated and onesided fashion in order to create the impression of the possibility of a "lefty whopper" in order to appease the totally unreasoned elements of the Right.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Chameo (December 20, 2011 10:29 pm ET)
      8 1
      It's also interesting that they changed the logic on why saying that the Ryan plan "ends Medicare" is a "lie". Originally, the objection (not necessarily on Politifact) was that no one who is currently on Medicare will be affected at all -- that only those under 55 would see a change in the way the plan works, but in saying that the plan "ends Medicare", the Democrats were scaring old people into thinking they were going to lose their benefits any day now. Now, it appears, the only reason that this is a lie is that there will still be a program called "Medicare" even if it won't do any of the things that Medicare currently does.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (December 20, 2011 10:41 pm ET)
      4 1
      Apparently, running Grandma over a cliff is just a dramatic change and does not end anything. Republicans can blame the rocks below.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by papajohn (December 20, 2011 11:58 pm ET)
        3 3
        Jamison,

        With all the complaints I have had of late of MMFA shift from a Mainstream Media watch dog to a Far Right obsessed organization I have to admit that this was a very good article.

        Thank you.

        Please follow up on how many Mainstream Media organizations use this to defend Republicans and attack the Democrats.

        John
        Report Abuse
        • Author by RavenRog (December 21, 2011 8:31 am ET)
          2 9
          MMfA has always been a far-right-obsessed organization. They just stopped pretending to be something they're not.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Boswell (December 21, 2011 9:21 am ET)
            4 1
            well DUH moron, read the mission statement and the FAQ it was founded to point out the lies of your masters, you little lapdog
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Deluded (December 21, 2011 7:12 pm ET)
            4 1
            When is FOX going to stop pretending it's a fair and balanced network.

            And for you information, MMFA has NEVER pretended that it is not focused on the far right, they state it proudly from the start.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (December 22, 2011 1:43 am ET)
            2  
            Raven

            You are a LIAR, the hyperbole of calling it an obsession notwithstanding. The fact you are too STUPID to read the mission statement shows what a MORON you are not that MMFA ever pretended to be something they are not. My GOD but you are stupid
            Report Abuse
    • Author by cisprog (December 21, 2011 2:06 am ET)
      6 1
      Been trying to come up with the clearest parallel for Politifact's claptrap in case I need a quick retort at holiday dinner. How's this:

      It's like banning state-run schools, guaranteeing vouchers of an uncertain amount toward privately-owned schools, and claiming you didn't "end public schooling."


      Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (December 21, 2011 8:17 am ET)
        3 1
        When you end the certainty, you end the program. Words mean things.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by skiploader1111 (December 22, 2011 2:11 am ET)
           
        Here's another one. Let's have local governments give everyone vouchers so that people to can use them to hire security guards to protects their homes instead of having police departments.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by NiceguyEddie (December 21, 2011 10:38 am ET)
      2 1
      I still like both fact-check and politifact as analytical bodies, but this goes to show that you can't just look at the final judgement and accept or reject it. You have to look at the REASONING behind it. A concervative might point to this an feel vindicated, but a simple reading of the logic shows it to be flawed. It also shows that you cannot rely simply on one source of information or opinon. I prefer FactCheck (and of course, among others, MMFA!) but none of these is entirely infallible. It is very disappointing however that Politifact can't (or refuses to) resognize the mental gymnastics they're going through to justify this, when they are so apparent to anyone else reading it.

      ---------------------------------------
      IMHO
      UTOPIA
      Report Abuse
      • Author by papajohn (December 21, 2011 11:50 am ET)
        3 1
        Jamison,

        I would like to add one suggestion to this excellent article:

        Please stop citing Politifact at MMFA as "evidence" for criticizing articles MMFA writes about the Far Right.

        Examples (Just for November 2011 alone):

        PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize winning website, has criticized Crossroads in the past for "cherry picking" Clinton's comments to suggest he was at odds with Obama.


        A FEW other examples:

        http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111120001

        http://mediamatters.org/research/201111280004

        http://mediamatters.org/research/201111130006

        http://mediamatters.org/research/201111030026

        http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111030010

        http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111290011

        Politifact chose a falsehood for their "Lie of the Year" that was politically motivated.

        Thatg laone shuld disqualify them as "evidence" when you write your articles in the future at MMFA.

        Thanks,

        John





        Report Abuse
    • Author by 4teepee (December 21, 2011 12:43 pm ET)
      5 1
      The U.S. establishment realizes we have a rapidly worsening healthcare cost crisis and believes the medical industry is too powerful to take on via a solution like single-payer. Therefore, Medicare becomes a target instead.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by sullivan4239 (December 21, 2011 6:42 pm ET)
      2 1
      We need a fact checker to keep an eye on Politifact now that their credibility has been called into question.

      Lies don't come cheap. I would like to see their income ledger.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by YouTubeJEFF9K (December 22, 2011 8:29 am ET)
      2  
      Politifact items should be evaluated two ways. First, on the truthfulness of the literal statement, and second, on the "take away" of the statement.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by SMTDL (December 22, 2011 11:23 am ET)
        2  
        Yes ,you nailed that in a real clear way.When people think of Medicare they see a system where you have a guarantee of coverage for the vast majority of healthcare needs of elderly citizens.The Ryan voucher system just guarantees a subsidy to help pay for insurance that you might still not be able to afford or even get under current insurance industry practices.Your personal health issues could leave you under insured or uninsured.That makes a huge difference so to claim a lie is really pretty stunning for a "fact" based organization to assert.
        Report Abuse

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