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Eric Boehlert
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Swift Boat 2004 vs. 'Swift Boat' 2008

July 24, 2007 11:47 am ET

When a prominent group of New York City firefighters attacked Rudy Giuliani's handling of the September 11 terrorist attacks, and when they posted a video online puncturing what they called the "urban legend of America's Mayor," the political press knew what to do -- it anointed the first responders as this election cycle's Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Newsweek, Time, MSNBC, the New York Daily News, and scores more all agreed that the firefighters were just like the Vietnam veterans who targeted the military service of Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) during the 2004 presidential run.

But that's the king of phony comparisons. And by making it, the press, once again, is letting the lying Swift Boat Vets off easy.

The media coverage is important because journalists will play a key role in establishing the legacy of the Swift Boat Vets. On the extreme, hyper-partisans such as Rush Limbaugh, along with factually challenged bloggers like Power Line's John Hinderaker, loudly claim the Swift Boat vets were vindicated, that "What the swift boat guys were saying was true!" (Limbaugh) and that, "Most of what the Vets said in their ads has never been disputed, let alone discredited" (Hinderaker). That spin is pure fantasy, which is why it was so easy for me to demolish it here and here.

There's little danger the mainstream press would adopt that kind of Swift-Boat-Vets-were-vindicated narrative. But the press does seem to be meeting conservatives halfway by now drastically watering down the implications of the Swift Boat attackers and using the Swift Boat phrase in a loose, lazy, and imprecise manner. For the Beltway press, Swift Boat has simply become a catch-all phrase to describe coordinated, negative campaign attacks that try to take a candidate's perceived strength and turn it into a weakness.

News consumers are told that's what the Swift Boat Vets did to Kerry's Vietnam record, and that's what the International Association of Fire Fighters is trying to do with Giuliani's much-touted 9-11 resumé.

The problem with that analogy is that it completely ignores what set the Swift Boat Vets apart: They manufactured nearly every claim they made about Kerry. They lied about documents; they lied about eyewitnesses. And they lied about their partisan leanings and connections.

And they also played the press for fools. At every turn in 2004, military records proved the Swift Boat veterans to be fakes. At every turn, each new inconsistency proved the Swift Boat veterans to be charlatans. But Beltway reporters and pundits for the most part remained hesitant, too timid to speak up, as they propped up the veterans as serious men.

Now the press is airbrushing the episode again by suggesting Giuliani's substantive critics are just like the Swift Boat vets. In truth, as The Carpetbagger Report noted, "The comparison is ridiculous. The Swiftboat attackers were lying; the International Association of Fire Fighters aren't. It's really that simple."

Giuliani aides claim the first-responders are partisan and cannot be trusted to speak for their rank-and-file members. But as far as most of the specific allegations, the Giuliani camp is mostly arguing around the margins. For instance, firefighters claimed that eight years after FDNY radios failed during the response to the World Trade Center terrorist attack of 1993, the same ineffective radios failed again on the morning of September 11 and that the mayor, despite years of FDNY requests, did not do enough to fix the radio problem. Giuliani supporters concede there was a communication breakdown on September 11, but that a high-rise signal transmission system failure was to blame, not the radios. Either way, lots of firefighters inside the Twin Towers were not able to properly communicate with their commanders on the morning of September 11.

In other words the two sides are battling over spin and interpretation. There's just no way to liken that with the Swift Boat Vets and their wholesale manufacturing of dates, quotes, events, and documentation.

Yet here's how an MSNBC.com report from July 11, under the headline "Giuliani's 'swift boaters,' " tied the firefighters and the Swift Boat Vets together:

In the summer of 2004, John Kerry let a slowly-building media campaign against his Vietnam War experience explode into a debacle. From that campaign a new phrase entered the political lexicon -- "swift boating." Now it appears Republican presidential candidate, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, may have his own "swift boaters."

Set aside the erroneous conventional wisdom that Kerry's campaign did nothing to combat the Swift Boat allegations (it's simply not true), and note that MSNBC failed to point out the most glaring and obvious Swift Boat trait; that the Vets peddled lies. This has become something of a cardinal rule for journalists when referencing the group today: Do not spell out the fact that the Swift Boat Vets were lying. (Time magazine recently, and oh so gently, described the Swift Boat attacks of 2004 by suggesting Kerry's Vietnam record had simply been "turned against him.") Instead, it's preferable to paint the group more generically, as aggressive, partisan, but above all, successful.

The casual, inaccurate Swift Boat references were pervasive throughout the firefighter coverage. The New York Post reported that "some of Rudy Giuliani's fiercest city critics are set to launch "swift boat"-type strikes to inform voters around the nation about the former mayor's behavior before 9/11."

Note that "swift boat" appeared in quotes despite the fact nobody in the article was quoted as mentioning the phrase. The same was true with a report from the Beltway trade magazine The Hill. Here's the lede: "Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign moved quickly yesterday to blunt what it sees as a sensationalist Swift Boat-style attack by a firefighters' union."

Again, nowhere in the article did anybody ever mention the Swift Boat veterans or compare the firefighters' video with the Swift Boat's 2004 attack ads. And nobody called the firefighter's video "sensationalist." All that commentary all came courtesy of The Hill.

Meanwhile, a Josh Greenman column in the New York Daily News announced, "The 'swift boating' begins, as the firefighters union releases a video claiming Rudy botched emergency radios and Ground Zero cleanup."

Referencing the disgruntled firefighters, a Newsweek headline asked, "Rudy: 'Swift Boat-able' on 9/11?" Yet in making the comparison between the partisan Vietnam vets and the firefighters, Newsweek never acknowledged that the vets fabricated most of their allegations.

The lazy, inaccurate use of the Swift Boat tag actually predated the firefighters' video. In April, New York magazine insulted VoteVets.org, which includes a PAC and advocacy organization devoted to advancing the interests of veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. An article labeled the organization "a left-leaning version of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth."

A June 22 MSNBC report compared Vote Hope, a newly launched 527 organization formed to promote the presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), with the Swift Boat Vets. That, despite the fact Vote Hope had made no campaign advertisements at the time, nor had it lobbed any hardball allegations against any candidate.

Or go back and read this Slate article, from 2005, headlined, "Kerry Swift Boats Bush," and try not to laugh out loud at the premise behind the "Swift Boat" headline. Spoiler alert: It's because Kerry claimed President George Bush was in denial about Iraq. That was Kerry's alleged smear campaign.

The press says Swift Boat Vets = MoveOn.org

Even at the height of the Swift Boat attacks, media outlets seemed to go out of their way, via false comparisons, to gloss over the radical nature of the smear campaign. On August 19, 2004, The New York Times published an unsigned editorial critical of the Swift Boat attackers. But it was also quick to spread the blame to 527 independent groups that aired attacks ads. "One of the more prominent of these groups," the Times wrote, "the leftist Moveon.org, is running ads attacking President Bush's Air National Guard service."

Yep, the mighty, "liberal" New York Times editorial page compared the libelous, phony, and multi-million-dollar Swift Boat smear campaign with a single MoveOn.org ad that raised factually accurate questions about Bush's dubious National Guard service.

The editorial brought this sharp-edged response from a Times reader:

To the Editor:

It's both sad and infuriating that you equate the group MoveOn with the disreputable smear tactics of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

It's time that we stop pretending that both sides are ''equally responsible'' for the degraded state of our politics.

The Republicans have been engaging in personal destruction for years, which included an attempted coup of Bill Clinton's presidency. The reason groups like MoveOn exist at all is for defense against such tactics.

Rick Reil
New York, Aug. 19, 2004

Precisely. There is absolutely no way that a factual comparison can be made between the Swift Boat Vets and MoveOn.org, yet the press loves to do that with its patented, a-pox-on-both-your-houses cop-out. ("Politics As Usual," read the Times' editorial headline.)

For instance, following the 2006 midterm elections, Andrew Sullivan, writing for Time, bemoaned the polarized state of today's political discourse, which he claimed, was abetted by the likes of Michael Moore, MoveOn.org, and the Swift Boat Vets -- i.e., an Academy Award-winning director, one of the largest progressive grassroots organization in America, and an ad hoc group of liars.

More recently, on April 12, 2007, the Associated Press, addressing campaign finance laws, reported that "[t]wo of the more prominent 527s that have tried to sway recent elections are the liberal group Moveon.org Voter Fund, which targets Republicans, and the conservative Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which bought ads against Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry in 2004."

According to the AP, the Swift Boat Vets merely "bought ads against" a Democratic candidate. The fact that the ads were filled with lies was of no interest.

The New York Times adjusts its coverage

But back to the firefighters and how the press has dealt with them and the Swift Boat Vets. By way of comparison, let's examine how The New York Times first reported on the firefighters' attack video in July and how the Times first reported on the Swift Boat Vets' first attack ad in 2004.

The differences are subtle, but telling. In terms of placement and size, the articles were quite similar:

The differences were found inside the articles. For instance, the firefighter piece, in the very first sentence, stressed that the anti-Giuliani video might not be accurate:

In a video that is by turns emotional, scathing and at times factually questionable, the nation's largest union of firefighters is appealing to its members across the country not to support the Republican presidential candidacy of former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. [Emphasis added.]

Two things. First, did you notice how it was the Times itself that made the assertion that the firefighter video might not be true, rather than the Times quoting a Giuliani aide making that claim? To me that's very unusual because the 2004 article about the first Swift Boat ad detailed what the allegations being made against the candidate were, and then quoted representatives from the candidate's camp who explained why they thought the allegations were false.

But with its firefighter coverage, the Times stepped in and immediately informed readers that the attack video was "factually questionable."

Second, and worse, the Times' firefighter article could not back up its own claim that the firefighter video was "factually questionable." The Times simply reported "some of the conclusions in the 13-minute video can be debated" and that "some of the video's assertions are at the very least subject to debate." But c'mon, isn't that true of every political attack video or ad? And if that's the best the Times could do, why did the article's lede stress that the video was "factually questionable." Plus, nowhere in the article did the Giuliani camp claim the video was factually inaccurate. The Times came to that conclusion on its own.

The other telltale difference between how the newspaper handled the unveiling of the Swift Boat ad, as compared to the firefighter video, was that in 2004 the Times included eight direct, and damning, quotes from the Kerry accuser ad, three of which appear in the first three paragraphs (i.e. "'When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry''). In its firefighter report though, the Times included one lonely accuser quote and it did not appear until the seventh paragraph.

The take-away from the two articles was quite clear: The Swift Boat veterans were making serious, damning allegations against Kerry, while the NYC firefighters' allegations against Giuliani might not be legit.

When it came to covering two sets the campaign accusers, the Times, like most of the press, got both stories exactly wrong.

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    • Author by Rosencrantz (July 24, 2007 12:12 pm ET)
         

      THere is one more crucial problem with the media's treatment of this issue. By broadly using the term "swift boating", the media is, as you point out, equating what happened to John Kerry with what happened to Giuliani. The problem with this is that the media is giving two choices to the average viewer...either both groups are telling the truth or they are both lying.

      If people believe both groups are telling the truth, then the media has ensured that the lies about John Kerry's military record continue. However, if people believe that both groups are lying, then they truth about Giuliani's record will get burried. Either way, by equating both cases and their continued insistance on not bothering to inform their viewers of the facts, the media is guaranteeing that their viewers mostly remain clueless and uninformed...and with a Republican spin on events. I say republican spin because John Kerry can't win in this situation. If people believe that swift boating is always true, then Kerry is a fraud. If people believe that swift boating is always a lie then Giuliani really is America's mayor and a hero while Kerry is still just "french" and a loser candidate.

      This is just another example of the media showing false balance and refusing to do their journalistic duty of finding the truth behind these stories instead of mindlessly parroting what they hear.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Graydogs (July 24, 2007 12:43 pm ET)
           

        That's an excellent point. Depending on how the readers interpret the term "Swift Boating"......lying about a politician, or exposing the truth, they will judge both politicians by that term. How many will note that the temr "Swift Boating" shouldn't even be applied in this case, as is pointed out in the article?

        Report Abuse
    • Author by conleytgwinn (July 24, 2007 12:31 pm ET)
         

      Would exceed the constraints of language. There is no lie so damning that equivalence could be claimed, much less established. We should, however, try damning that punk with the truth.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by conleytgwinn (July 24, 2007 12:33 pm ET)
           

        that is what the firefighters are trying to do, against formidable resistance from the Corporate Media.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by ajwan (July 24, 2007 1:18 pm ET)
         

      The media has lost all ability for critical thinking and decision-making. If I was on a jury trial, I would be worried if there were msm member on the jury. I am sure quaint notions like Rules of Evidence would escape them. Would they even be able to discern the difference between evidence and a lawyer’s interpretation of evidence in the closing statements? I doubt it.

      It is the Medias role to present the statements of government leaders and political organizations, but how about presenting established facts as well. When the Times report the firefighter’s claims are debatable or questionable, by not providing any information at all about what are established facts versus questionable facts, they show how dysfunctional they are. Actually, the msm should go even farther and detail for us as a constitutionally important service when political statements are not supported by established facts.

      Kerry a coward? Established facts: Kerry had voluntary wartime service where he won medals in battle and received high praise from superiors. Un-established facts : Kerry is a coward because me and my friends who did not serve with him said so.

      See it’s easy, but apparently lost to the msm.

      Maybe the msm should come up with a new word: factantasy. It doesn’t differentiate between fact and fantasy, and since it is a big word makes some infantile writer feel important.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jeter2 (July 24, 2007 2:03 pm ET)
         

      Attacks on individuals or groups can be fair or unfair.

      Swift boating is an unfair attack, or at least that's the way I would think most folks would define it as.

      Giuliani is being fairly attacked/exposed.

      Therefore he's not being Swift boated.

      Unfortunately the media, which latches onto these expressions eagerly, is using it incorrectly in this instance.

      Just one more example of their growing laziness & incompetence.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by easygoer002209 (July 24, 2007 4:43 pm ET)
           

        these guys are not dumb, and i dont think this "oversight" happens out of laziness. they know what they are doing when they overlook the matters highlighted above.

        i believe these events stem from intentional acts designed to deceive the viewer. the process is too coordinated for me to believe otherwise.

        It's why Alberto Gonzoles still has his job. No Democratic president could preside over an ATTY GEN with such contemptable distrust, even among some GOPers. These guys know what they are doing.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by MickD (July 25, 2007 12:05 am ET)
             

          Yeah and they really want to preside over a "both sides are doing it" meme than do any objective thinking or exposing. Its easier and makes the brie go down better at the parties.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by Cannonball (July 24, 2007 2:45 pm ET)
         

      The media are for-profit corporations. Controversy is the main ingredient of a successful long story life. Added sensationalism is the only thing better.

      Truth is now viewed as subject to interpretation (see Colbert's "truthiness"). A writer can always create a strawman as a foil or purport to balance two differing perspectives (some people feel this way...others feel this way...) to mislead the reader to consider am otherwise ridiculous argument. The fact that all reasonably minded people would agree/disagree is irrelevant since the straw man is a literary fiction the writer created as an easy target for his/her illogical or outlandish argument.

      Swift Boating, etc., is instantly recognized as a sensational controversy and its accuracy is irrelevant when the point is to lengthen the story life. Remember that every governmental "scandal" has ended in "gate" since Watergate. Even Monica-gate. No connection to a hotel break-in necessary.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by eecee (July 24, 2007 4:59 pm ET)
           

        Cannonball wrote: "Swift Boating, etc., is instantly recognized as a sensational controversy and its accuracy is irrelevant when the point is to lengthen the story life. "

        ---------------------------------------------

        Exactly. Consider that they spent almost $27 million on media buys and a few hundred dollars on actual research...reimbursing one of their chatroom nutties who went down and looked through the archives and STILL got almost all his facts wrong.

        Which of course tells us that the slow boaters intended not to find the "truth," but merely to perpetrate their opinions far and wide....and they solicited GOP money to do so.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by eecee (July 24, 2007 6:26 pm ET)
             

          ...and hiring a PI to call people and try to dig up dirt doesn't qualify as "research."

          Report Abuse
      • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (July 25, 2007 12:36 am ET)
           

        'Remember that every governmental "scandal" has ended in "gate" since Watergate. Even Monica-gate. No connection to a hotel break-in necessary.'- Cannonball

        None of these things ended in "gate" besides Watergate. The media just found it easier to add a "gate" on the end of these things as a flashing red light , telling the target audience to be interested.

        It's been an easy way for our public opinion-shapers to create the impression that Travelgate or Monicagate was as important and controversial as the Watergate cover-up.

        I was actually trying to think of a Republican minor scandal to throw in there, just to balance it out. Help me out, I know there has been a conservative connected with a 3rd string scandal to which "-gate" has been added, I'm just blanking out.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (July 25, 2007 1:33 am ET)
           

        Explain why the media is so afraid to call Bush on his lies, or why they AVOIDED the Downing Street memo for an entire month during which it was the biggest story in Europe.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by therick (July 24, 2007 4:06 pm ET)
         

      "Giuliani aides claim the first-responders are partisan and cannot be trusted to speak for their rank-and-file members"

      His aides fail to realize that although SOME of the first responders may be partisan, what they are saying is still true!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (July 24, 2007 4:55 pm ET)
         

      If I understand it correctly, (please correct me if I am wrong,) Guiliani is being attacked by members of union which also has a history of being supportive of the Democratic Party.

      It looks like to me, (a casual observer,) that this is another typical political ploy by the Democratic Party to tarnish a front runner for the GOP. The motives of the union seem readily apparent. What they say may be true, (I haven't looked in a while to see what those criticisms are, but if I remember correctly, they are criticizing the radio's used by the police and firefighters on 911 and the emergency HQ location in the WTC). But because it is coming from a union, it looks to me to be patently partisan.

      Not to refight the last presidential campaign, but I don't think the firefighters union will have anywhere near the impact of the SBVTs and POWs who came out against Kerry.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by worrierking (July 24, 2007 5:07 pm ET)
           

        Although the National Firefighters Union endorsed Senator Kerry, the New york firefighters Union endorsed Bush in 2004

        Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (July 24, 2007 5:20 pm ET)
           

        “If I understand it correctly, (please correct me if I am wrong,) Guiliani is being attacked by members of union which also has a history of being supportive of the Democratic Party.”

        The firefighters union of New York is pretty conservative and they support a lot of conservative candidates. I know they supported Giuliani’s reelection and I’m pretty sure they endorsed him the first time he ran. The relationship soured after 9/11 and contract disputes.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (July 25, 2007 12:41 am ET)
           

        "I don't think the firefighters union will have anywhere near the impact of the SBVTs and POWs who came out against Kerry."

        You're probably right. Without the right wing corporate media carrying them, and considering they're telling the truth, they've got a much harder battle than the GOP puppet Swift Boaters.

        I'll overlook your partisan prejudices against Union Members for that bit of insight on your part, Dep. Fife.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Chromium (July 24, 2007 5:12 pm ET)
         

      Newsweek, Time, MSNBC, the New York Daily News, and scores more all agreed that the firefighters were just like the Vietnam veterans who targeted the military service of Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) during the 2004 presidential run.

      I see one major difference:

      The Swift Boat Vets for Truth targeted one of their own, a fellow Swift Boat Vet, something that is rather unusual. We generally see groups supporting their own members.

      I do not believe Giuliani ever was a firefighter, and he certainly was not employed as one on 9/11. So in the attacks by them, they are not attacking one of their own, but instead the administrator in charge at the time of the events. This is quite common, dog bites man.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by DougReese (July 24, 2007 5:45 pm ET)
           

        "The Swift Boat Vets for Truth targeted one of their own, a fellow Swift Boat Vet, something that is rather unusual. We generally see groups supporting their own members. "

        The Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" was formed for the express purpose of smearing Kerry. It was spearheaded by just a few people.

        Most who belonged to the organization never even saw Kerry in Vietnam, much less served with him.

        They were but a small percentage of the total number of guys who served with/on Swift Boats, as only about 255 of a potential 2,500-3,000 joined.

        The Swift Boat Sailors Association (I'm not sure I have the name correct) expressly refused to endorse anyone in that election.

        It is quite possible that a member of the SBV"t" will show up here for a typical soundbite. I would invite them to stick around for something beyond a soundbite -- you know, like a discussion.

        If they do, it will be the first time

        Doug Reese

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Chromium (July 24, 2007 6:10 pm ET)
             

          Like I said, Giuliani is an administrator, not a firefighter.

          Why they were formed, how many members, etc. does not counter the fact that JK was successfully challenged by a group of people of his same background and expertise, not applicable in the firefighter/Giuliani situation.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by worrierking (July 24, 2007 6:20 pm ET)
               

            Next you'll be telling us St. Rudy wasn't the hero of 9/11 and wasn't America's mayor.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by eecee (July 24, 2007 6:29 pm ET)
               

            I'd say SBVT was "successful" only in managing to get its lies on the air in 50 states. Not in making any substantiated claims.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 24, 2007 6:37 pm ET)
               

            "Why they were formed, how many members, etc. does not counter the fact that JK was successfully challenged by a group of people of his same background and expertise, not applicable in the firefighter/Giuliani situation."

            How does spreading lies about someone become a "successful challenge?" You know, when the truth is not a factor, many more arguments are on the table.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by john henry (July 24, 2007 8:24 pm ET)
           

        The swift boater were republican and therefore Kerry was not one of their own. The Jewl is a a New YOrker and so are the firefighters therefore he is one of their own. I am from Missouri too and your arguments shows me nothing but the manipulation of categories.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by jjamele2880 (July 24, 2007 5:36 pm ET)
         

      Yep, now that it's a Republican whose ox is being gored, the media can call "Swift-Boating" what it is- smearing. They'll conveniently forget that the media fed the Swift-Boaters of 2004, gave them credibility by inviting them back again and again, and when confronted with the truth, told us "reasonable people can disagree."

      The problem is, what the firefighters are doing ISNT "SWIFT BOATING." Telling the TRUTH and providing EVIDENCE is not "Swift Boating." But the media is so in the pocket of the Corporatist Right, you can bet that ANY attack on ANY Republican will be given the "Swift Boat" moniker.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (July 24, 2007 6:49 pm ET)
         

      From the link above: “This image of Rudy Giuliani as 'America's Mayor' is a myth,” says President of Uniformed Firefighters Union, Steve Cassidy in the DVD.

      The video raises many questions about the former mayor, including why firefighters used obsolete radios on September 11th that may have added to the death toll, why the search for human remains was suddenly stopped after a lost shipment of bank gold was recovered and why the emergency management bunker was on the edge of ground zero.

      The firefighters say they want America to hear and see their take on the former mayor

      “When America knows the decisions he made pre 9-11 and then on 9-11, I don’t think they'll ever support him for president,” Cassidy adds.

      This is so much different than the Rove-manufactured lies about Kerry and his Vietnam service. The press should be ashamed. (And I'm also tired of them attaching a -gate to every scandal too!)

      Report Abuse
    • Author by john henry (July 24, 2007 8:30 pm ET)
         

      The article really says the ad is factually questionable. No detail and no specifics and does NOT really say the facts are wrong. Discredit as much as possible without really risking anything rebuttable.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (July 24, 2007 10:30 pm ET)
         

      I hadn't thought of this use of the term. A broading further could say any criticism is swift boating. Why not, a futher item of confusion. How exactly is comphrension here different from climbing a greased flagpole.

      Thank you Mr.Boehlert. I may not enjoy the information, but I'm glad to have it.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by bingo (July 24, 2007 10:33 pm ET)
         

      "...note that MSNBC failed to point out the most glaring and obvious Swift Boat trait; that the Vets peddled lies. This has become something of a cardinal rule for journalists when referencing the group today: Do not spell out the fact that the Swift Boat Vets were lying."

      It's a cardinal rule for journalists and media entities (et tu MSNBC?) who, unlike Boehlert, wish to retain some level of credibility inre the veracity of the Swiftvet allegations.

      They've been dragged, many kicking and screaming, to the uncomfortable realization that cardboard Swiftboats don't float...at least not very long.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by eecee (July 24, 2007 10:55 pm ET)
         

      Writing a bunch of sophisms.

      Full of sophistry.

      Bingo on board.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Nick307 (July 25, 2007 12:25 am ET)
         

      I'm not sure the article addreses this because I just skimmed through it, but there is another major inaccuracy in applying the swift-boat label to the Giuliani situation. The SBVFT wer found to have ties to the GOP and the Bush-Cheney campaign. So far, at least, we know of no connection between the firefighters association and any other candidate's campaign, Democrat or Republican.

      If a Democrat or left-leaning organization were behind this, wouldn't they wait until Rudy (who is polling well) wins the Republican nomination? The Swift-boat Vets waited until a few months before the Nov. election, after Kerry had been nominated. For all we know, the firefighters association could have ties to a Republican campaign. If so, the media might more appropriately compare this campaign to George W. Bush's use of push-polling to derail fellow Republican John McCain in 2000.

      Either way, this had better signal the end of Giuliani's campaign. Without 9/11, he has nothing. Personally, I'm kind of tired of seeing people use 9/11 to, I don't know, make millions in the security business or try to advance their own careers.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by eecee (July 25, 2007 1:19 am ET)
         

      ...the Slow Boaters actually started up during the primaries, when it looked like Kerry would be the nominee, not after he became the nominee.

      But it is true they got most of their money from GOP sources a lot closer to the election.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Nick307 (July 25, 2007 4:32 am ET)
           

        I was thinking of the Swift Boat Vets' televsion ads, which began in August 2004. And when you think about public opinion and MSM impact of the group, the TV ads are where the Swift Boaters gained mainstream notoriety. I followed the 2004 race pretty closely, and I had never heard of the Swift Boat Vets until the TV ads were released.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by eecee (July 25, 2007 1:38 pm ET)
             

          ...goes back to the GOP money starting to pour in, I guess.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by bruce1ace (July 25, 2007 7:40 am ET)
         

      Factcheck.org has noted the problems with the firefighters ad.

      [link to www.factcheck.org]

      Report Abuse
      • Author by therick (July 25, 2007 11:02 am ET)
           

        Infomative. And although it does state that the firefighters exaggerated on some of the points, it also shows where they were correct. My conclusion: Rudy isn't Satan, but he's certainly no hero.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Nick307 (July 25, 2007 2:49 pm ET)
             

          I agree that the factcheck article pokes some holes in the IAFF video, but rather than exposing outright falsehoods, it shines light on some of the exaggerations and misleadinginformation contained in the video.

          Clearly Rudy is no 9/11 hero. A steward is not a hero, and conservatives like to believe that a Democrat would have somehow handled 9/11 worse than Giuliani. What did Rudy really do that any of us wouldn't have done?

          I do take exception to the claim that the IAFF video is a partisan attack ad. As the worlds largest firefighters union, I would expect the majority of their contributions to go to democratic candidates. Democrats generally fight for unions, while Republicans oppose them. That doesn't exactly seem unusually partisan, especially since the video would better serve Democrats if released after Rudy had won the nomination.

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    • Author by Little Umbrellas (July 25, 2007 4:49 pm ET)
         

      What you have to remember is that these lying liers are so consumed in their lie, they can only perceive it to be truth. That is what is propelling this fantasy comparison of "Swift Boats", yet it is one lowly example. That it offers a symbolic parallel or symmetry is reason enough for them, not the details. Whether or not it relies on reality for its veracity is entirely secondary, almost as in a game where the line of attack works until your enemy resists no longer or overcomes you with their own line of attack. What truth minded indivuals, be they of whatever political persuasion, ought to remember is that, like life itself, truth will untimately prevail. Their petty games of deceipt need only be plaid like the harp it is; we ought to be twisting the twisters in their heads, as if to laugh them into their senses and humanity. I profer this approach as one interested in the mutual evolution of people, not the exclusionary kind.

      I also recommend that anyone reading this read a book by Daniel Quinn called "Ishmael".

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