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Jamison Foser
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"Media Matters"; by Jamison Foser

April 11, 2008 6:35 pm ET

There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke

On last night's Hardball, host Chris Matthews and David Shuster focused like a laser on the things that really matter:

MATTHEWS: He's [Sen. Barack Obama] not that good at that -- handshaking in a diner.

SHUSTER: No --

MATTHEWS: Barack doesn't seem to know how to do that right.

SHUSTER: -- he doesn't do that well. But then you see him in front of 15,000 people in some of these college towns, and that's why, Chris, we've seen Chelsea Clinton and Bill Clinton in Bloomington and South Bend and Terre Haute. I mean --

MATTHEWS: What's so hard about doing a diner? I don't get it. Why doesn't he go in there and say, "Did you see the papers today? What do you think about that team? How did we do last night?" Just some regular connection?

SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."

MATTHEWS: No.

SHUSTER: He did.

And it's just one of those sort of weird things. You know, when the owner of the diner says, "Here, have some coffee," you say, "Yes, thank you," and, "Oh, can I also please have some orange juice, in addition to this?" You don't just say, "No, I'll take orange juice," and then turn away and start shaking hands. That's what happens [unintelligible] --

MATTHEWS: You don't ask for a substitute on the menu.

SHUSTER: Exactly.

MATTHEWS: David, what a regular guy. You could do this. Anyway, thank you, David Shuster. I mean, go to the diners.

The mind-blowing inanity of this conversation can't properly be appreciated through the transcript. When Matthews said "No" in response to Shuster's revelation that Obama ordered orange juice in a diner, he sounded as though he had just been told that Obama had punched a nun in the face. Watch for yourself.

When CNN's Candy Crowley suggested after the 2004 election that John Kerry's attempt to order green tea in an Iowa restaurant showed a "disconnect" between the presidential candidate and "most of America," it seemed unlikely that we would see a sillier attempt to find meaning in a candidate's beverage choice. Not only was Crowley taking the elitist attitude that simple Iowans couldn't possibly be familiar with green tea, she was also wrong. The Kmart in Dubuque, Iowa, stocked Lipton's green tea.

But last night's exchange between Matthews and Shuster was far worse. Offered coffee, Barack Obama asked for orange juice instead. And Chris Matthews and David Shuster pounced, aghast that he would dare do such a thing as ask for orange juice. A preference for orange juice was supposed to demonstrate that Obama is out of touch with "regular" people. (For what it's worth, neither Matthews nor Shuster so much as hinted that a single, actual voter who was in that diner was put off by Obama's interest in orange juice. But Matthews and Shuster were upset enough for everyone.)

MSNBC runs commercials for itself in which Tim Russert solemnly explains why MSNBC covers politics: "It's about the war. Our sons and daughters. It's about the economy. Our jobs. It's about education. Our schools. It's about health care. Our families' well-being. It's about everything that matters."

MSNBC doesn't run any ads that claim that what really matters is whether the candidates choose to drink coffee or orange juice. But that's what the cable channel's brightest stars (Matthews is reportedly paid $5 million a year for this nonsense) chose to spend their time discussing last night.

Orange juice -- and bowling.

Immediately after his exchange with Shuster, Matthews hosted Obama supporter Sen. Bob Casey. Here's the very first question Matthews asked this United States Senator:

MATTHEWS: Isn't that interesting, Senator Casey, that Barack Obama, your candidate, can walk before 15,000 people with complete calm and assurance, but he seems a little out of place in A) a bowling alley and B) a diner? What is the problem with your guy?

Obama ordered orange juice in a diner and isn't a very good bowler -- and based on these facts, which can only aspire to qualify as trivia, Chris Matthews demanded to know "[w]hat is the problem with your guy?"

Matthews has been positively obsessed with Obama's lack of bowling skills. He talked about it on Hardball on March 31 -- in two separate segments -- and announced, "[T]his gets very ethnic, but the fact that he's good at basketball doesn't surprise anybody, but the fact that he's that terrible at bowling does make you wonder." And again on April 1 -- this time bringing it up in three separate segments and opening his interview with Obama supporter Sen. Claire McCaskill: "[D]id you advise Obama to go out and try to bowl the other day?" On April 2, Matthews interviewed Obama himself -- and his very first question was about the presidential candidate's bowling. On April 8, Matthews said, "I'm actually surprised by the fact that neither Barack or Hillary have bowled much in their lives. Maybe that tells you something about the Democratic Party." He referenced Obama's bowling again on April 9.

A profile by Mark Leibovich in this Sunday's New York Times Magazine suggests that Matthews thinks his other television show -- The Chris Matthews Show airs on Sundays -- disproves the notion that he isn't serious. Leibovich writes:

When I asked Matthews about the bloviator stigma, he dismissed it as jealousy or at the very least ignorance among those who don't know him or who don't regularly watch his Sunday show or who have not read his books or who are not aware that he is a student of history and film or that he is on the board of trustees of the Churchill Center or that he has received -- did he mention? -- 19 honorary degrees.

Leibovich also quotes the executive producer of The Chris Matthews Show describing that program's audience as "smart people who want smart analysis."

But even on a show that purports to offer "smart analysis," Matthews can't resist focusing on Obama's inability to bowl well; he included a segment on the topic in last week's broadcast.

These discussions of bowling and beverages may be stupid, but they aren't pointless. They are part of a broader pattern of media portraying prominent progressives as elitists.

Matthews routinely asks if Obama can "connect with regular people." Apparently, all those people who have been voting for Obama are irregular. And, just so you don't have to wonder exactly who it is Chris Matthews considers irregular, he spelled it out for you, continuing: "Or does he only appeal to people who come from the African-American community and from the people who have college or advanced degrees?"

New York Times columnist Gail Collins said Obama "can be disturbingly Ivy League." Candy Crowley, doubling down on her green tea comments, refers to Obama supporters as "latte liberals." The Chicago Tribune refers to Obama supporters as "wine-track" voters and chides the senator for referencing arugula while in Iowa. Obama's arugula reference drew a barrage of (inane) media criticism, with Glenn Beck falsely claiming "arugula is not even grown in the state." In fact, it is -- and it is readily available in Iowa supermarkets, too. Apparently they even having indoor plumbing in much of the state, despite what Candy Crowley and Glenn Beck seem to think. Even George Will got in on the act, mocking Obama for mentioning arugula to Iowans. Yes, George Will wants you to think Barack Obama is an out-of-touch elite.

And, of course (according to the media) John Edwards' big house and expensive haircut showed that he was out of touch with "regular people," as did John Kerry's windsurfing and Al Gore's childhood attendance of a private school and his decision to occasionally wear brown clothing.

Most people who are no longer in middle school understand that it isn't a great idea to judge people based on things like their haircuts, their wardrobe choices, or what beverage they drink. Most people understand that we shouldn't choose a president based on these things. Most people -- but not political journalists.

Most people understand that in a time of war, with the nation teetering on the edge of recession (if one hasn't already started), and the housing market collapsing, and an administration that views the Geneva Conventions as "quaint" and the Bill of Rights as optional, assessing candidates based on who would be the most fun to have a beer with is not the way out of this mess; it's the way we got into it in the first place. Most people -- but not political journalists.

Which isn't to say that there is nothing candidates can do to avoid having reporters relentlessly mock them as out-of-touch elitists: They can run for office as Republicans.

George W. Bush and Al Gore were both sons of successful politicians, both attended private schools and Ivy League colleges, but only one was portrayed by the media as an out-of-touch elite; the other was a "regular guy." Bush owns $13,000 worth of bicycles -- a fact that never seemed to come up when the media were portraying John Kerry's windsurfing as the pastime of the wealthy. Kerry was skewered for ordering a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese -- and when Bush lied about ordering his with Cheez Whiz, the news media politely stayed silent. John Edwards' expensive haircut was endlessly portrayed by the media as evidence that he was an out-of-touch elitist dandy --but how often have you seen a reporter mention that George W. Bush handpicks the cloth for his $2,000 suits?

During the height of the media frenzy over Edwards' haircut, New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd made fun of him for visiting "the Pink Sapphire spa in Manchester, which offers services for men that include the 'Touch of Youth' facial, as well as trips 'into the intriguing world of makeup.' " But, as Bob Somerby pointed out, John McCain has also taken a trip "into the intriguing world of makeup" at the Pink Sapphire. Somehow, Dowd forgot to include that in her column -- and the rest of the media (except for the New Hampshire Union Leader) forgot as well. (A Nexis search for "John Edwards AND Pink Sapphire" returns 71 hits. One news report available on Nexis mentions McCain's visit to the salon. One.)

Last year, CNN's Wolf Blitzer called Hillary Clinton a "flip-flopper" because she sometimes drinks her coffee black, and sometimes with cream. The very same Associated Press article from which Blitzer learned this completely irrelevant fact also reported that Rudy Giuliani drinks his coffee with "Sweet'n Low or Equal, whichever is available," and that John McCain likes "[c]appuccino or coffee with cream and sugar." Blitzer saw no troubling insecurity in Giuliani's or McCain's preferences (and, to be clear: He shouldn't have. Just as he shouldn't have branded Clinton a flip-flopper because she sometimes puts cream in her coffee and sometimes does not).

And that same AP article also reported that Mitt Romney doesn't drink coffee at all -- but "has been known to have hot chocolate." Try to imagine how Chris Matthews would react if he found out that Barack Obama doesn't drink coffee -- and that, instead, he drinks hot cocoa.

Now imagine how Chris Matthews would react if Obama didn't drink coffee -- and was as rich as Mitt Romney is.

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      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (April 11, 2008 7:51 pm ET)
           

        As a McCain supporter, I love that he constantly votes against shorter combat missions for our troops.  How are they supposed to get tougher if they aren't in combat?  When the war is over, they can spend time with their families, but they have a job to do.  What I really enjoy though is that McCain votes against safety equipment and health care for the troops as well.  What better motivator do the troops need than that?  They aren't supposed to get hurt and if they do, McCain probably thinks they should be more agile to get out of the way.

        What I love the best about McCain though is his constant shifting positions and how his positions have "evolved" (though I don't believe in "evolution") over the years.  This is such a brilliant strategy!  How can anyone attack McCain when he constantly changes what he "believes" in?  Pure brilliance.

        And, who cares if he doesn't know where Al Qaeda comes from and what the different sects of Islam are?  They all seem to hate us, right?

        Another favorite of mine is McCain's promise to cut the deficit like Reagan did!  Is there no shortage to his brilliance? (SATIRE)

        GO McCAIN!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by August Heat (April 11, 2008 10:32 pm ET)
             
          LOL!! I couldn't tell if the other poster was being sarcastic in all of his posts or not.  Thanks for clarifying.  This article is on point.  The media is oversaturated with opinions and I believe more and more people are starting to devalue some of these idiots.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by watershed (April 12, 2008 4:32 pm ET)
             

          Go Friedbergboy! Well done.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (April 11, 2008 8:10 pm ET)
           
        hillary never "stiffed a waitress".  the manager said he failed to distribute the tip.  we will await your correction.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by jjc2006 (April 11, 2008 9:27 pm ET)
             
          Don't hold your breath for an apology from the Obama supporter.  They spin negative narratives about Senator Clinton every bit as often as the right wing.  And like the right wing, they never apologize or even admit they are wrong.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (April 13, 2008 3:47 am ET)
             
          Dont hold your breath. He knows this isnt true. He is a troll.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (April 13, 2008 5:35 pm ET)
             
          sort of off topic but still, the headline is obviously from "all along the watchtower".  when dylan heard hendrix's superb version, he reportedly said, maybe there's more to that song than i realized.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (April 11, 2008 11:44 pm ET)
           

        "When Hillary stiffed that waitress and treats people like hired help, well it just makes you look bad."

        Hey guys, let's start flagging this guy as a troll. Everyone do it. Don't respond to him, just flag him to MMFA

        Report Abuse
      • Author by chrisgodawgs (April 12, 2008 12:07 am ET)
           
        Conservative, please explain how Obama ordering an orange juice instead of coffee is mistreating people.  
        Report Abuse
        • Author by nuQler ostrich (April 12, 2008 8:50 am ET)
             

          I don't know about you, but by the time I leave the house in the morning I have already had several cups of coffee.  Don't want/need any more.

          Maybe if he had been in Florida asking for OJ would be OK?

          Oh, wait!  The Democratic National Party says they can't campaign in Florida.  Ant that's because the Republican Legislature / Republican Governor enacted a bill that moved up the primary.  My bad.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by notanotherconservative2254 (April 12, 2008 7:24 pm ET)
             

          Explanation:  A candidate for office has to know how to relate to the people.  Now we know from the release of the secret tapes in San Francisco that Obama thinks that middle American's are a bunch of dumb boobs.  Look, it is OK to think that way, but you have to at least ACT like you respect people.  Obama is my candidate, and I love the guy.  But he had better be careful not to say what he really thinks about the dumb boobs who cling to religion and guns and are opposed to free trade.

          Part of playing the game is knowing how to behave in public when someone gives you the house special and you ask for Perrier and Jägermeister.

           

          Go Obama!! 

           

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by prof (April 12, 2008 8:33 pm ET)
               

            "Explanation:  A candidate for office has to know how to relate to the people.  Now we know from the release of the secret tapes in San Francisco that Obama thinks that middle American's are a bunch of dumb boobs.  Look, it is OK to think that way, but you have to at least ACT like you respect people.  Obama is my candidate, and I love the guy.  But he had better be careful not to say what he really thinks about the dumb boobs who cling to religion and guns and are opposed to free trade."

            He said no such thing.  The only dumb boob in this discussion is you for your willful stupidity.  The very same disenfranchised people, those bitter Americans that have nothing else but the core values they cling to (guns, religion, and an abiding distrust of outstiders) are the very same people the neo-cons pander to and manipulate.

            Part of playing the game is knowing how to behave in public when someone gives you the house special and you ask for Perrier and Jägermeister.

            LOL Since when is a cup of coffee the "house special"? You have some serious issues with reality.

             

             

            Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (April 12, 2008 9:38 pm ET)
               

            As a McCain supporter,

            I love that he wants more war and give vets' fewer benefits!  Genius!  Maybe we can privatize everything!  I also like that if my current wife isn't working out I can marry the woman I am having an affair with and no one will remember it if I run for office fifteen or twenty years later.  I can also grow up to be in one of the worst scandals in Congressional history as long as I get it over with 25 years before I am President!  GENIUS!

            Also, my positions can evolve so that I can call some agents of intolerance and embrace them eight years later!!  If I was a Democrat, people would call me a flip-flopper and a gold-digger, but since I am a Republican, I am just evolving! I voted against a holiday for MLK, but all my Republicanb  I can be against the Bush tax cuts one day, give one explanation, but evolve 7 years later and lie about why I voted against them in the first place!  Its ok because I am a Republican!  They have short memories and will vote for me no matter what!  As long as I compare myself to Reagan, they'll love me!  Someday, I'll run for President just like McCain!

            GO MCCAIN!

            Report Abuse
            • Author by mary59 (April 13, 2008 12:40 am ET)
                 
              Excellent, you have me convinced. Now we just need a vice prez. How about Newtie?
              Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (April 13, 2008 3:51 am ET)
               
            You are a liar and a fool. When you are in a restaurant you PAY for whatever you eat or drink. Since you are PAYING you get what you want. You are never under any obligation in a restaurant to just ACCEPT whatever is easiest for the employees to get you. There is nothing wrong with asking for what you want. Even if it were being freely given there are any number of reasons to NOT want coffee. Asking for something else instead isnt wrong. YOU are a liar and a fool
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 14, 2008 12:41 pm ET)
               

            Part of playing the game is knowing how to behave in public when someone gives you the house special and you ask for Perrier and Jägermeister.

            I agree. Obama's first clue should have been the locked cabinet behind the counter of the diner, with a sign reading, "Caution! Contains Orange Juice! This is reserved for elitists only! No ordinary person should ever order Orange Juice. This cabinet is to be unlocked by management only! Alarm will sound!"

            What? There was no such cabinet? There was a standard orange juice dispenser behind the counter where any hoi-polloi server could get it and give it to anyone who asked for it?

            What is this world coming to?

            Report Abuse
      • Author by nuQler ostrich (April 12, 2008 8:46 am ET)
           

        You mean some people still watch that stupid show?

        Why?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (April 13, 2008 3:47 am ET)
           
        You are a liar and a fool and that never happened. Repeating hivemind lies may be your forte but they out you as a liar and a fool
        Report Abuse
    • Author by draftedin68 (April 11, 2008 7:01 pm ET)
         

      Well finally, FINALLY!

      It's about time that the spittle-flinger-in-chief took a timeout from his incessant Hillary pillorying to dig down deep and expose a few truly terrible truths about Obama.

      I mean, these revalations could cause a 180 in the direction that the Hillary-haters at MSNBC will head from now on.

      Or not.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by rtlincoln373329 (April 11, 2008 9:05 pm ET)
         
      I'm a native Iowan and a graduate of the U of Iowa. Never bowled in my life. Who cares? Mostly I drink Constant Comment tea. I read a lot. I'm a typical Iowan. If I offered coffee and someone asked for OJ, no problem. People in this country aren't as stereotyped as those buffoons who live in their glass cages seem to think. Their comments are insulting to the average American.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (April 11, 2008 9:47 pm ET)
         

      Whats wrong with cocoa?

      Ming will ferret out all cocoa haters. Not that it means much other than a good oportunity to ferret and be otherwise intrusive. I believe he prefers ryolitic lava with graphite sprinkles.

      I'm calling it for Ming!!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (April 11, 2008 10:14 pm ET)
         

      How in the world could George Will have said this as noted above...

      Yes, George Will wants you to think Barack Obama is an out-of-touch elite.

      Now here is something really funny...maybe Obama wants that to be known as well!

      The sound you hear is the wind going out of Barry's campaign sails in Pennsylvania, maybe all over.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

      First we have Michelle's need for more white people (instead of an American flag?) for background in photo opps, now Obama's elitest views of mainstream, small town America.  This is getting good!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 12, 2008 3:28 am ET)
           

        "How in the world could George Will have said this as noted above..." (proudcon)

        see, after that, you should have put in something that George Will said.Then it might have made sense.Maybe not.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by funnymanpants (April 12, 2008 12:43 pm ET)
             

          Col Sanders wrote: 

          >>see, after that, you should have put in something that George Will said.Then it might have made sense.Maybe not. 

          Yes, I agree. What the heck is PC's point, except pretending he has one?  

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 12, 2008 1:12 pm ET)
               

            It seems to be a trend, FMP, and may continue through November. I notice some of the conservative posts getting much longer in the word-count, but completely indecipherable and unrelated to the topic.

            It's been a timesaver, as I know I can just skip some of the serial ramblers' comments, but sometimes I look at them as a puzzle, and try to uncover some sort of "point".

            Simplify. Edit. Trim the fat. I want to read other opinions, try to present them without the incoherent gift wrapping.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by mary59 (April 12, 2008 6:08 pm ET)
                 
              If they were printed out, all this cutting and pasting right wing talking points could be useful for wrapping fish.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mescal (April 13, 2008 4:27 am ET)
                   
                Yeah, Mary, but you'd never want to actually EAT that fish, what with all the pollution that it now been subjected to.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by Timmee (April 11, 2008 11:18 pm ET)
         
      The media gets stuck on iconic simplifications because it makes it easier to sound like you know what you are talking about. As with Clinton for time he was in office, there is a constant hunt for something...ANYTHING...to criticize Obama. He has given them precious little to work with.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mescal (April 13, 2008 4:29 am ET)
           

        What do you mean, that "he's given them precious little to work with"?

        He ordered ORANGE JUICE, for God's sake! 

        Report Abuse
    • Author by chrisgodawgs (April 12, 2008 12:04 am ET)
         
      None of the comments above have anything to do with this excellent post.  Bring it back to the issue:  Matthews is again proving that whatever a Dem does in an "everyman" location is erroneous.  Ordering orange juice instead of coffee makes Obama an elitist? ??  A Repub is never criticized for these things.  As if McCain hasn't ordered an orange juice at a diner while campaigning?  Obama is very strict about his diet, and I'm sure coffee is not on it, as is the case for many "regular" people.  Matthews...enough with this kind of pointless overanalysis!!  Analyze something that matters.  
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 12, 2008 12:15 am ET)
           

         MATTHEWS: '...I don't get it. Why doesn't he go in there and say, "Did you see the papers today? What do you think about that team? How did we do last night?" Just some regular connection?'

        Right on, Chris. Because every time I get stuck in line at the grocery store, and that A-hole behind me without a single synapse firing decides that I look lonely for moronic chit-chat, I think to myself " I'd vote for him for president!"

        Report Abuse
      • Author by HughG (April 12, 2008 7:40 am ET)
           

        You don't get it.

        Orange Juice is the mainstay of the elitist Eastern liberal establishment. Just ask the OJ spokeswoman...

        Anita Bryant. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (April 12, 2008 10:31 am ET)
             

          Ha! Anita Bryant. That's a blast from the past. A not so pleasant blast.

          I just googled her name and an over the top Conserapedia article came up. I guess they need their own narrative of events to prop up this hate monger. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 12, 2008 1:26 pm ET)
               

            Speaking of this "elitist" frame, have you seen the latest angle on Obama? (turn on Fox, they were pissing themselves last night over it)

            Obama was talking, I think in SF, and responded to a question by making some comments on rural or small town voters. It was on Fox, so naturally there was no context to it, but basically he made some remarks about bad economic times inducing fear and distrust and a clinging to guns and religion in some people.

            Just as they've made any criticism of the military an insult to the troops, this was hashed out as looking down on all small town Americans, and all of the Foxperts (Kondracke, Krauthammer,etc.) were wringing their hands about how horrible this was for Obama's campaign. They really seem to be having trouble accepting that their sheltered bigot demographic doesn't represent America at large, and is getting more insignificant every day.

            To summarize, Obama may have really blown his shot at securing the rural redneck racist vote. darn it.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by lkenyon665075 (April 12, 2008 7:20 pm ET)
                 

              ...but basically he made some remarks about bad economic times inducing fear and distrust and a clinging to guns and religion in some people.

              Come on now - if McCain had made a stereotype regarding big city liberals you would of taken the time to post the exact quote.  Here is the part of BHO's speech that has caused a firestorm (and not just on FOX news). 

              "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.  It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or anti-pathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

              Full story (for context) along with audio can be found via the link ProudConservative listed in his post.  

              They really seem to be having trouble accepting that their sheltered bigot demographic doesn't represent America at large, and is getting more insignificant every day.

              So let me see if I understand your comment...

              People who embrace their 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, their 1st amendment right to freedom of speech (religion), are ticked off about existing immigration laws not being enforced and unbalanced trade agreements are just lowly small town bigoted racist rednecks that in your eyes are becoming increasingly insignificant?  You don't know any people in your day to day life (regardless of political party) that might possibly feel the same way??

              Thanks for showing your true colors!  

              lkenyon

              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (April 14, 2008 9:38 am ET)
                   
                Oh, stop hyperventilating.

                What is with you dirtbag wingnuts? Why do you have to distort and misrepresent the simplest of concepts?

                Never mind. I know it's because you can't persuade a soul of the merits of conservatism without lying.

                The point the good Colonel is making is that the wingnut tactics of fear of the other is losing its sway over Americans all across the country. The truth of conservative failures to grow an economy for all and the inability to provide true and lasting national security is too plainly obvious to play off as someone elses fault.

                Dipstick Republicans need to take responsibility for the mess they've unleashed with their blame everybody else worldview.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (April 14, 2008 9:40 am ET)
                   
                Oh, stop hyperventilating.

                What is with you dirtbag wingnuts? Why do you have to distort and misrepresent the simplest of concepts?

                Never mind. I know it's because you can't persuade a soul of the merits of conservatism without lying.

                The point the good Colonel is making is that the wingnut tactics of fear of the other is losing its sway over Americans all across the country. The truth of conservative failures to grow an economy for all and the inability to provide true and lasting national security is too plainly obvious to play off as someone elses fault.

                Dipstick Republicans need to take responsibility for the mess they've unleashed with their blame everybody else worldview.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 14, 2008 11:05 am ET)
                   

                LKenyon, Your idea that I would have posted the exact quote if it was McCain is just a guess. I was only paraphrasing from something I had just caught on TV. If you think I mischaracterized Obama's statements in any way, point out where I did this. I try to avoid the copy & pasting of long items into threads. Since I was citing this as being the next manufactured scandal, I figured it would be all over the place soon enough.

                Your other mistake is in reading my "bigot" comment as directed at small town residents. If you had calmed down and read a little more carefully before going into your typing frenzy, you would have noticed that I was referring to the right wing media hacks.

                But if my true colors are somehow showing through your confusion, have at it.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (April 13, 2008 6:20 pm ET)
                 
              "Just as they've made any criticism of the military an insult to the troops, this was hashed out as looking down on all small town Americans"

              At the risk of being booed by Hillary supporters, what does it say about her campaign that she has latched onto the exact same theme about Obama?
              Report Abuse
      • Author by ezell_h834 (April 12, 2008 5:07 pm ET)
           
        As a relatively smart person who wants smart commentary, I no longer watch any of those clowns. I read internet posts and make my on decisons on what to read. It also affords the opportunity to respond.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Staunton Sam (April 12, 2008 1:16 am ET)
         

      The sheer hubris of someone like Chris "Nantucket Beachhouse" Matthews pretending to act shocked about a beverage order is jarring. On what possible basis can Matthews claim to speak for "regular" Americans?

      It's obvious Matthews thinks "regular" Americans are fools. Fools who are insulted (or who can be convinced they should be insulted) by something so pedestrian and commonplace as ordering the most popular and widely-consumed juice in the nation.

      If Matthews were actually interested in the drinking habits of regular Americans, he could check and see that the average American drinks the freshweight equivalent of 74.1 POUNDS of orange juice each year [1]. But of course, it's not about that. It's about insinuating that Obama is an elitist. The irony, of course, is that it's hard to think of what could be more elitist than assuming "regular" Americans are so stupid as to be offended by or otherwise care about what beverage Obama orders or how he bowls.

       [1] http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fts/aug03/fts30501/fts30501.pdf

      Report Abuse
    • Author by ajmilner402 (April 12, 2008 8:24 am ET)
         

      When CNN's Candy Crowley suggested after the 2004 election that John Kerry's attempt to order green tea in an Iowa restaurant showed a "disconnect" between the presidential candidate and "most of America"

      Um, not that it matters, but Sen. Kerry is a prostate cancer survivor, and doctors INVARIABLY recommend that survivors drink green tea as part of their regimen. 

      MATTHEWS: He's [Sen. Barack Obama] not that good at that -- handshaking in a diner.

      SHUSTER: No --

      MATTHEWS: Barack doesn't seem to know how to do that right.

      SHUSTER: -- he doesn't do that well. But then you see him in front of 15,000 people in some of these college towns, and that's why, Chris, we've seen Chelsea Clinton and Bill Clinton in Bloomington and South Bend and Terre Haute.

      Translation: NORMAL Americans don't like book-larnin'.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (April 12, 2008 10:21 am ET)
         

       -- These discussions of bowling and beverages may be stupid, but they aren't pointless. They are part of a broader pattern of media portraying prominent progressives as elitists. -- Foser

      I agree...and the antithesis of this argument is just as valid. The media portraying conservatives as rednecked bowling alley denizens lacking any curiosity other than where to go for a good chicken fried steak on Friday night.

       -- The mind-blowing inanity of this conversation -- Foser

      I don't know how you can say it better than that. A third party is looming...and I don't know if it will be spawned from the right or the left...but it certainly is looming.

      A third party that will isolate the loony far left and radical right by removing them from the mainstream political process is just over the horizon...uniting the 60-70% of middle American voters who are the real "regular folks" of this country. 

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by oscar the grouch (April 12, 2008 1:35 pm ET)
           
        Where do we sign up, Wesley?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Chromium (April 14, 2008 4:25 pm ET)
             

          Wesley and Oscar,

          I foresee the possible formation of a third party that strives for an efficient government, close to Libertarian.  An efficient government would have limited benefits (both "welfare" and corporate bail-outs), limited military action, and very limited taxation, with more pay-as-you-go things like toll roads and park fees.

          I was truly irritated by Sen Clinton's "Christmas gift" commercial, where she wrapped up things like universal health care as a "gift" for the American people. This is the "something free for me" mentality that is harmful.  I think our military actions are in part due to the availability of resources from the current Federal government.  

          I see both the present Democratic nor Republican parties going toward greater spending, the wrong direction, but for different purposes.  

           

            

           

          Report Abuse
      • Author by prof (April 12, 2008 8:57 pm ET)
           

        "A third party that will isolate the loony far left and radical right by removing them from the mainstream political process is just over the horizon...uniting the 60-70% of middle American voters who are the real "regular folks" of this country."

        The "loony" far left and the "radical" right, eh?  The only loonies I've seen thus far are the religious crazies legitimized by the Republican party and now firmly esconced in all three branches of our government.  The very same people that have been trying to institutionalize creationaism (dressed up as "intelligent design") as a scientific theory.  The same people that tried to deny a woman, declared to be in a permanent vegetative state by numerous doctors, her right to die with dignity.  These are the loonies that are trying to take this country on a religious crusade against the Islamic world, and they don't seem to understand the difference between sunni and shia, or (for that matter) al Qaeda and al Jaheera.  The people that have taken our nation to war based on lies and fear mongering.  These are the same puffed up, corrupt hypocrit extremists that have shredded our Constitution.  Those people are your loonies.  They have a proven, documented track recorded of being disconnected from reality.

        "Loonie far left,"  indeed.  Rubbish.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by oscar the grouch (April 13, 2008 12:20 am ET)
             
          Herein lies part of the problem, Prof.  You have a tendency to see anyone that is to the right of you as a loony righty and those on the right see anyone to the left of them as a loony lefty.  Some of us see certain fringe groups that are on the extreme of the political spectrum, both left and rigtht. There are the "I have unlimited rights but no responsibility" group, the "save the trees at any cost" group, the "government is the answer to all the problems, just need more money" group, etc on the left and the "earth is only 6-8000 years old" group, "my way or the highway" group, "government (taxes) is evil" group, etc on the right. Actually, there are "my way or the highway" groups on both ends of the political spectrum. And there is a large group that are more moderate, knowing government is necessary, but is not the answer to every problem in the country, that believes government is not fiscally responsible and has not been exceprt for very few years over the past 50 or so, that government programs, although well-intended, tend to grow exponentially faster than the economy as a whole. that believe that we, as individuals, bear some of the responsibility for taking care of some of the problems of the country outside the envelope of the government. There are a great many of us in the heartland of America that see a problem and work toward a solution instead of sitting back and letting government handle it, and yet we know there are certain problems that could be better handled under government supervision.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by wesley (April 13, 2008 8:45 am ET)
               

            Oscar,

            Mighty good stuff...

            I would add that the "heartland" is not a geographical area but a philosophical area. The extreme fringe groups can be found on the left and right coasts as well as the fly-over country...just as "heartland" people can be found everywhere.

            When this type of third party emerges...the extreme fringe groups...will no longer have the political cover of a major political party. Their extreme views will be identified for what they are...extremist and self-serving.

            I don't thing we'll have to worry about sending "the prof" a membership card. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by oscar the grouch (April 13, 2008 11:05 am ET)
                 
              I agree with your "heartland" assessment, just can't come up with a better term that would be more inclusive to what a third party should look like.  To the Prof, "heartland" is the looney right, while to me it defines those that go out and really make the country work.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by wesley (April 13, 2008 11:47 am ET)
                   

                That's a big 10-4, oscar.

                I also think that the "loonies" get more media play than they merit...particularly in the cable industry. It seems to me that the cable news shows have saturated their potential market...with the political junkies (myself included) ...mostly entertaining themselves.

                O'Reilly has been at the top of cable ratings for a number of years...but his market doesn't seem to expand or contract much. They all seem to be scrapping for the same smallish demographic...which relishes the salacious and gotcha reporting.

                The fringe loons push around and provide fodder for these shows and outlets like mmfa...but the "heartland folks" that you talk about...I don't think are too much swayed by their antics...but instead are tired of the hard line partisanship...Hannity and Olbermann readily come to mind.

                With some leadership from the right person...I think that the heartland voters that you speak of will form a powerful voting bloc that will relegate the extremists to their fairly earned empty corners of politics.  

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 13, 2008 2:22 pm ET)
                     
                  Now we know the sound of two trolls crapping.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by oscar the grouch (April 13, 2008 2:54 pm ET)
                       

                    Another "free speech" advocate trying to stifle dissent.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mescal (April 13, 2008 9:36 pm ET)
                         

                      So, if someone RESPONDS to what you say, that means they are against free speech? It sounds to me more like they're PRACTICING free speech. That's kind of th point, y' know... to counter dumb points with smarter ones... the whole Market Place of Ideas thing. How does that amount to stifling dissent?

                      Yeah... I didn't think so. 

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by oscar the grouch (April 13, 2008 10:49 pm ET)
                           
                        Well, name calling goes a long way to furthering the discussion, right? It seems, at this site, when one is called a troll, it is the same as saying "go away (or in other words, shut up.)."
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by wesley (April 13, 2008 10:59 pm ET)
                             

                           - Now we know the sound of two trolls crapping. - easytorefutewingnuts

                           - That's kind of th point, y' know... to counter dumb points with smarter ones - mescal

                          Oscar...I hope you had as big a laugh over that as I did...can't wait to use that "two trolls crapping" line when trying to "smarten up" my friends and acquaintances.  

                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by solon (April 14, 2008 12:41 am ET)
                             
                          Whether or NOT it furthered discussion it had NOTHING to do with stifling free speech that was dumb.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 14, 2008 12:50 pm ET)
                         

                      Another "free speech" advocate trying to stifle dissent.

                      I fail to see how accurately describing your verbal diarrhea is an attempt to "stifle" it. I'm perfectly willing to let your ignorance hang over the forum like a noxious cloud, making its presence known to anyone who dares come close, so they may learn for themselves the source of the stench.

                      Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (April 13, 2008 6:34 pm ET)
               
            "And there is a large group that are more moderate, knowing government is necessary, but is not the answer to every problem in the country, that believes government is not fiscally responsible and has not been exceprt for very few years over the past 50 or so, that government programs, although well-intended, tend to grow exponentially faster than the economy as a whole. that believe that we, as individuals, bear some of the responsibility for taking care of some of the problems of the country outside the envelope of the government. There are a great many of us in the heartland of America that see a problem and work toward a solution instead of sitting back and letting government handle it, and yet we know there are certain problems that could be better handled under government supervision."

            Pretty amusing stuff, mostly. I really like how moderates in your scenario tend to be conservative more than liberal and they repeat that big government, "sitting back and letting government handle it," slam. Real nice.

            What is a moderate anyway? They're for moderate abortions, gay marriage in moderation and moderate executions?

            Back to thae drawing board Oscar. Large majorities of Americans prefer big government efforts to work on behalf of the people. Better rethink your stereotypes.

            Other than that, I always look forward to reading your reasonable posts. Cheers!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (April 13, 2008 3:57 am ET)
           
        Well good luck with that. I am happy in my looney left corner and am used to being marginalized so if it happens that really wouldnt make things any different for me, and would probably be better for the country if only because it breaks the two party monopoly. It will be a hard row to hoe but I would be glad to see it. I think there may be some truth to what you say but it seems to me that they left is really pilloried more than the right in this way. Though I do agree it sometimes goes both ways.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by aocasio463507 (April 12, 2008 10:52 am ET)
         
      Chris Matthews is a narcissist who loves to boast about his self worth, and his intellectuall prowess.  Yet he consistently misquotes historical facts or spins data to fit his political agenda.  He along with Tucker Carlson, Tim Russertt and others on msnbc would like us to believe that they are fair and balanced, oh excuse me thats Fox.
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    • Author by jmh (April 12, 2008 10:59 am ET)
         
      Once Mattews (and the other Hannity types) have figured out a way to blame the absolute dismal current state of affairs: Social, Political and Economically in the U.S. and around the world... on Bill Clinton... I am sure the chatter will be different. This is just more of the same avoidance tactic and teflon-application to shield the current administration.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Billy Hill (April 12, 2008 6:28 pm ET)
         

      To summarize, Obama may have really blown his shot at securing the rural redneck racist vote. darn it.

      - Col. Harlan Sanders / Saturday April 12, 2008 1:26:35 PM EDT

       

      We "rednecks" do not appreciate condensation from you or any other racist there Col. and WE VOTE.......regular and OFTEN!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (April 13, 2008 4:00 am ET)
           
        And as a looney lefty so do I and the vast majority of my far lefty friends so you go. We cancel you out.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 13, 2008 2:26 pm ET)
           

        I thought people everywhere, including rednecks, appreciated "condensation." it's usually in the form of "rain," and is good for the crops.

        "Condescension," on the other hand, is best practiced by those who know the difference between scorn and corn. 

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Billy Hill (April 12, 2008 6:30 pm ET)
         

      Or condesention! I was working at the still all morning...........

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 12, 2008 7:36 pm ET)
           
        Then you should really appreciate condensation. I hope this latest horrible scandal doesn't have you considering voting for somebody other than Obama. And that goes for all you six-toed jug-blowing bumpkins.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (April 12, 2008 11:22 pm ET)
           
        Or spell checkers, is this third time the charm or am I being condenscending?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mescal (April 13, 2008 4:46 am ET)
             

          Liberal elitists, all of you!

          You're more than willing to dismiss a man's heart-felt religious and ordnance beliefs just because he happens to have an extra chromosome or two.

          Bunch of socialist, Nazi, fascist, atheistic, Communist, pacifist, bleeding heart, Muslim liberals, if you ask me!        ;o)

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 13, 2008 3:10 pm ET)
               

            you're right, Mescal. I was out of line to dismiss Billy because of his condition. In fact, the GOP used him in their latest documentary to show that their base is, in fact, handi-capable.

            I promise to be much more PC, starting now.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by skipp2989 (April 14, 2008 7:17 am ET)
                 

              Please, please please please please please  please please please.  I beg you all to stop using comparisons of people with developmental disabilities to the intelectually lazy.  References to retards and the short bus are offensive.  I've worked with children with disabilities for almost twenty years and they are nothing like the people you wish to insult. 

              Col. you are one of the smartest posters here.  Slam the intelectually lazy all you want but please stop comparing them to some of the hardest working people I know.. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (April 14, 2008 11:08 am ET)
                   
                Skipp, I apologize. I'm actually very close to a few people who work with people with disabilities, and it was lazy of me to go that route. I guess I'm not very good at being an elitist.  ;0) 
                Report Abuse
    • Author by alboy562410 (April 13, 2008 12:12 am ET)
         
      Just to be clear, notanotherconservative, Hilary did not stiff that waitress.  Not only did Hilary leave a 100 dollar tip, but the waitress, upon seeing how the media were making a big deal about this trivial matter, was appalled. The waitress's coment to the media was along the lines of, "What's wrong with you people?"  With all due respect, given your lack of regard for the truth, it sounds like you're just another conservative.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by knowlies (April 13, 2008 4:29 am ET)
           
        Yeah, see Alboy, Notanother really IS a conservative. Seems he/she has recently discovered sarcasm and likes to get his jollies posting debunked right-wing talking points under the guise of an Obama supporter. Just move along. Nothin' to see here...
        Report Abuse
        • Author by knowlies (April 13, 2008 4:50 am ET)
             
          Actually Alboy, to be fair I don't know for a fact that NAC really IS a conservative. But his posts have all the trademarks of one who partaketh in the kool-aide : Hypocrisy, runs away from a real debate, insane leaps of "logic", and as you have already discovered, the ever ubiquitious RW talking point.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 13, 2008 2:28 pm ET)
             

          Seems he/she has recently discovered sarcasm

          Seems he should have waited to use it until he understood it, not just discovered it. 

          Report Abuse
    • Author by cesley79 (April 13, 2008 6:06 pm ET)
         
      I watched this exchange and was disgusted........ not just because of the overblown reaction to the orange juice request but more that they were talking about it at all!! With all the real issues citizens face, how and what Obama orders is the least of our problems.

      Chris Matthews is but one of many MSNBC guys who get so enchanted with their own voice and opinions ~ they forget what really matters. Second by a sliver to Chris is Joe Scarboro. Are they out of touch or is it the pressure of so many cable "news" hours to fill. Whatever, our candidates and the public deserve much better.
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