About us Login Get email updates
Jamison Foser
Print

"Media Matters"; by Jamison Foser

May 09, 2008 7:55 pm ET

Playing with fire

In 1971, Edith Efron purported to expose the liberal bias of the news media in The News Twisters. The dubiousness of Efron's conclusion was matched by that of her methods, and critical reaction was harsh. But, under orders from Richard Nixon, Chuck Colson spent $8,000 buying copies of the book in order to vault it onto the New York Times best-seller list.

Even before Efron's book was published, undermining the news media was among Nixon's top priorities. In 1969, Nixon aide Pat Buchanan had proposed blunting media reports about Vietnam by accusing the networks of being biased in favor of the antiwar movement. In 1971, Nixon told top aide H.R. Haldeman, "[M]uch more than any single issue that we are going to emphasize, the discrediting of the press must be our major objective over the next few months."[i]

In fact, the discrediting of the media remained a major objective of the conservative movement for the next few decades. The News Twisters was followed by countless other books making similar allegations. Right-wing groups like Accuracy in Media and the Media Research Center thrived. And Republicans at all levels, from president to precinct worker, routinely attacked the news media.

Not that they necessarily believed their own attacks, as the occasional moment of honesty from conservatives over the years demonstrates. In 1972, Pat Buchanan praised news coverage of that year's presidential election as "extraordinarily fair and balanced." Brent Bozell conceded in the 1990s that major newspapers could not be faulted "with a media bias in favor of Bill Clinton" and praised The Washington Post's (deeply flawed) Whitewater coverage. James Baker has acknowledged that "on balance I don't think we had anything to complain about," and Bill Kristol has admitted, "The liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures."

That the right's coordinated assault on the media was built on such shaky work as Efron's, catapulted to the best-seller lists through the underhanded tactics of Richard Nixon and Chuck Colson, and carried forth for more than three decades by people who didn't believe what they were saying did not detract from its effectiveness in the least. It was a sham, but it worked -- in no small part because conservative media criticism was often met with silence from the left. A poor argument, rarely contested, carried the day.

The "discrediting of the press" Nixon demanded succeeded in every way he could have hoped. Longtime Washington Post reporter Tom Edsall, now of The Huffington Post, described the effect the right's assault on the media had on journalists:

The conservative movement has been very effective attacking the media (broadcast and print) for its liberal biases. The refusal of the media to disclose and discuss the ideological leanings of reporters and editors, and the broader claim of objectivity, has made the press overly anxious, and inclined to lean over backwards not to offend critics from the right. In many respects, the campaign against the media has been more than a victory: it has turned the press into an unwilling, and often unknowing, ally of the right.

But no matter how far reporters "lean[ed] over backwards" to appease the right, conservative critics were not appeased. Stoked by the Two Minutes Hate offered up daily by the likes of Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh, conservative distrust of the media remains high.

And that isn't likely to change any time soon. The millions of conservatives who have spent decades learning to loathe the "liberal media" aren't going to change their minds just because much of the news media cover John McCain the way Teen Beat covered Menudo. For reasons having little to do with his reliably right-wing voting record, a sizable chunk of the GOP base has never trusted McCain; the media's embrace of him will simply confirm their doubts about both McCain and journalists rather than warming them to either.

But months of reporters' fawning over McCain will alienate many Americans who have not already tuned out the "mainstream" media. Every year, more and more people lose faith in the news media, not because of trumped-up claims of "liberal bias," but because of a clear pattern, more than a decade long, of reporters (intentionally or not) trafficking in conservative misinformation.

And why not? Since the mid-1990s, we've seen shoddy media coverage of Whitewater and other pseudo-scandals during the Clinton administration, the open hostility of campaign reporters to Al Gore in 2000 and their chummy relationship with George W. Bush, open cheerleading for the Iraq war thinly disguised as journalism, and a primary season marked by sexist and abusive coverage of Hillary Clinton, an infantile and dishonest focus on John Edwards' hair and house rather than his plan for health care, and the endless false innuendo about Barack Obama's patriotism.

In recent years, it has become almost commonplace for journalists to note that since the beginning of the Bush administration, they get as many -- or more -- complaints from liberal readers and viewers as they do from conservatives. Media Matters' Eric Boehlert recently detailed progressives' growing capacity to express displeasure with flawed news reports. Boehlert described a flood of emails (organized by the website Firedoglake.com) in response to an Associated Press article that raised questions about Barack Obama's patriotism:

What prompted the organized outpouring of angst last week against the AP was when the website Firedoglake took action, embraced a new organizing tool, tapped into a wellspring of enthusiasm for Obama, and pointed angry readers not in the direction of the AP itself, but toward their local newspaper clients. Why? Because newspapers are more responsive to complaints filed by nearby readers, and because the newspapers pay the AP's bills as newswire customers.

[...]

The results, according to FDL, as of March 3: 14,252, letters sent to 649 different newspapers located in all 50 states, and from 1,735 ZIP codes. That included more than 1,500 letters to The New York Times, 1,400 to both USA Today and The Washington Post -- not to mention 52 to The Denver Post and 21 to the Florida Times-Union.

But while the increased quantity and quality of progressive media criticism in recent years has helped support a growth in activism like the effort Firedoglake led in response to the AP's reporting, public polling has continued to show that more people think the media have a liberal bias than a conservative bias. The increased understanding among progressive activists and leaders of the ways in which the media have benefited conservatives in recent years has not yet taken hold among the broader public.

But that may finally be changing. The New York Times and CBS News recently unveiled the results of a poll in which they asked respondents to compare the media's treatment of John McCain, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Only 8 percent said the media have been harder on McCain than on other candidates, while 28 percent said the media have been easier on McCain. By contrast, 34 percent said the media have been harder on Clinton than on other candidates, and only 8 percent said the media have been easier on her.

Even among Republican primary voters, few think the media have been tough on McCain -- only 11 percent of Republicans said the media have been harder on McCain than on other candidates. Compare that to the 43 percent of Democratic primary voters who think the media have been harder on Clinton than other candidates and the 31 percent who say the same about media coverage of Obama, and it is clear that the public recognizes the favorable treatment McCain has received.

Last year, a Pew Research Center poll that asked respondents if they view the media favorably found a significant gap between Democrats and Republicans. Eighty-four percent of Democrats had a favorable view of network television news; only 56 percent of Republicans agreed. Eighty-six percent of Democrats view their daily newspaper favorably, compared with 68 percent of Republicans. And 79 percent of Democrats viewed national newspapers favorably, while a mere 41 percent of Republicans shared that assessment.

The public's view of the media has deteriorated greatly over the past few decades. At the same time, news organizations are making more and more staff cutbacks. And all of that has happened with 80 percent of Democrats holding favorable views of the media. What will have to happen if that number drops 20 points? If Democrats turn to alternate news sources in droves as a reaction to the media's sycophantic treatment of McCain? If the countless new voters who are engaging in the political process for the first time decide that they cannot trust the traditional news media to treat both sides fairly, to hold both candidates to the same standards?

A large portion of the American public now distrusts the news media -- not because of the press's actual failings, but because of a deeply dishonest, decades-long campaign by conservatives aimed at, in Nixon's words, "the discrediting of the press." But now the media are in danger of losing the confidence of many more people -- those who still believe in the credibility of the press -- and this time, it is because of the media's actual failings rather than a Nixonian scheme.

We've already seen that for many journalists, their fondness for John McCain outweighs their professional ethics. The question now is whether that fondness will outweigh their own instinct for self-preservation.


[i] See David Brock's The Republican Noise Machine for more about the origins of the right's campaign against the media, as well as an explanation of the flaws in The News Twisters and other efforts by conservatives to demonstrate a liberal bias in the media.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by draftedin68 (May 09, 2008 8:22 pm ET)
         

      I won't hold my breath...

      Jamison, I'm thinkin' the MSM crowd's "instinct for self-preservation" might be based more (if not solely) on keeping on the good side of their editors and owners rather than the good side of their audience.

      BTW, I think a more accurate term would have been "fondleness."

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (May 09, 2008 10:38 pm ET)
         
      I was delighted with this article on media bias until I read the words "Huffington Post". Media bias and "Huffington Post" are synonyms.

      Go there at any time of the day and you will see out of context soundbites, yellow journalism, and cherrypicked news articles in favor of Obama and against Clinton the racist loser. And Arianna Huffington will tell you to blindly trust her statement that McCain and his wife once told her to vote for Bush.

      I was having so much fun up to that point. It was like being caught masturbating in the bathroom by your mother at age 12.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 10, 2008 1:08 am ET)
           

        In fairness TS77, the Washington Post confirms Huffington's statement

        http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/09/west_wing_actors_confirm_accou.html

        As does the LA Times:

        http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/john-mccain-cal.html

        and the NY Times:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/us/politics/09huffington.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

        Its all basically the same story

        Report Abuse
        • Author by truthseeker77 (May 10, 2008 2:04 am ET)
             
          No. The Washington Post confirmed nothing. Arianna asked two Obama donors to confirm her account, after McCain and his aides had denied her allegations. Once embaassed, Arianna resorted to two liberal Obama donors, like I said, who are not unbiased witnesses.

          You give the impressiont that the Washington Post (The New York times too) made some sort of fact-check and determined McCain was lying.

          Good try. Not.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 9:13 am ET)
               
            Not that you have a dog in the fight yourself right ?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by truthseeker77 (May 10, 2008 10:58 am ET)
                 
              The issue is not whether I have a dog in the fight, because I'm not a "witness". The issue is that these "witnesses" who Arianna has now begged to come forward have a dog in the fight, and whoever said the Washington Post 'confirmed' her story is being inaccurate.

              If the New York Daily News reports, for example, that 2 witnesses saw John kill Jack, they are not confirming that John is the murderer; They are reporting claims by two people who may be liars or not.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (May 10, 2008 11:19 am ET)
                   
                This is a pretty strange account on your part. The two witnesses are on record with their statements. Your only reply is that they might not be truthful because they support Obama? Wha?

                I object to the press relying too much on those people who choose not to be identified. This is not the case here, and it is reasonable since we know that McCain despised Bush for what Bush and Rove did in South Carolina.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:35 am ET)
                     

                  Not a fan of the unamed source either

                  Truths concern however is totally bogus

                  Report Abuse
      • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 2:01 am ET)
           

         

        The Huffington Post is about the most biased web-site on the Internet Wire that I know of... they take other people's news reports (AP, NY Times, Washington Post, etc.), and they of course put them on a Huffington Post page, with full credit for the source (AP etc.), and even a link out to another web-site (such as The NY Times), but they (The Huffington Post) create their own headlines for the news reports they post at their web-site!

        Again, they make up their own creative headlines, and put them atop other people's news stories!

        And man, are those headlines they make up misleading... so misleading, they are lies! They make headlines that seem to attribute a quote to someone, when in fact it is just the headline writer putting their own words in someone else's mouth, "paraphrasing" them... it's extraordinary what they do... upon clicking links to verify whether or not something in a Huffington Post headline was actually said (or even implied) by someone in a story, and finding out instead the tricky deceit of the headline writer, well I found out the hard way, and now I know better.

        The Huffington Post is no longer anything I consider an honest or objective source of information on the Internet Wire.

        And among what you'd call information, or news or current events, The Huffington Post is so heavy with television crap (are these people obsessed with the TV show "The View", or what? I've never seen the TV show once ever, yet I feel like I know everything about it, from The Huffington Post's fascination with it), and "American Idol" (they push Fox television shows? Are they nuts?), and oh yeah, the Clinton hatred!

        It's so bad over there, it's palpable... it's nauseating... truly, I have never ever heard such insults and venom and hatred of anybody in my life (true!), than is the stuff they post, blog after blog after blog, hating the Clintons!

        Screw The Huffington Post.

        If the future of the Internet Wire looks anything like The Huffington Post (which itself looks as bad or worse than television ever did), if that's what the future of the Internet Wire looks like, then Al Gore better get to work fast, and invent us something a little better.

         

        Report Abuse
        • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 9:11 am ET)
             

          WOW DEM

          Arianna turn you down for a date or something?

          You just totally did what you say her site does, you offered an opinion with no links and no supporting facts.

          So I'll ask the question, what specifically are you upset about regarding that site?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 9:24 am ET)
               

            OH WAIT   DON'T BOTHER

            I actually guessed the Clinton criticism was ALL this was about.

            Huffpost, Dailykos, Keith Olbermann and the like have all been critical, not of Hillary the person but rather of the way she has run her campaign.  It would be hypocritcal for these liberal stalwarts to ignore the GOP style campaign she is running while trashing Republicans for doing the same.  It's called consistency and it's a damn shame that some liberals are putting Hillary before the party.

            Yesterday I was listening to the enemy, Jay Severin, a right wing nut radio host that had Lanny Davis on.  Before Lanny got there Jay explained how rooting for the underdog in the Dem primary benefits the GOP.  Then Lanny shows up and he butters him up with the old I disagree with your politics but you are a class guy spiel.  Lanny went about trashing Obama, the media and even 'Democrat' voters, that's right he even went along with that term.

            You have Geraldine Ferraro practically living on the Fox News set, Hillary playing kissy face on O'Reilly and in the meantime Obama voters are supposed to be freakin' cool with all this???

            FACT- Obama has the most delegates, states won and popular vote, as of yesterday he was within one superdelegate of overtaking her there.  Hillary can have Michigan and Florida and 65% of what's left and STILL has no chance short of Barack being kidnapped by aliens.  So WTF!

            Explain to me how, knowing there is no chance, Hillary is justified in dragging this out in a bloody fashion.  Using the white vote as a wedge.

            Listening to Hillary supporters is like listening to the insane at this point.  Lanny claimed everyone was wrong except him.

            Yup, Arianna is out to get cha...puh leeze DEM

             

            Report Abuse
            • Author by truthseeker77 (May 10, 2008 11:03 am ET)
                 
              You talk about their criticism, but not about the shit they have made up about Hillary, such as the claim by Daily Kos diarists that the Hillary camp darkened Obama's skin in a Youtube ad in order to play the race card. This was debunked by Factcheck.org

              What are the odds that everything Hillary does is bad? Well, if you visit those sites, you will enter a world where Hillary never deserves praise for anything; specially in the Huffington Post.

              This thread is about media bias, and nobody can deny that the Huffington Post is ultra-biased, and Arianna describes herself as an Obama supporter, and has been spotted in a yacht with billionaire Obama donor David Geffen. She never has anti-Obama headlines with the exception of the "bitter" comment.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:23 am ET)
                   
                The bitter comments, and Wright gate were covered ad nasuem on Huff also.  If need be I'll go dig up a few pro Hillary items for you.  The fact is the criticisms were mostly fair.  The exception proves the rule.  There's not much media left that's unbiased.  And you haven't touched on any of my points.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (May 10, 2008 11:25 am ET)
                   
                I agree that a lot of the coverage of Clinton has been unfairly ridiculous. However, it is undeniable that she is not conducting a campaign that she will be proud of right now.

                both Democratic candidates are highly intelligent leaders who could govern this country soooo much better than BushCo or the war mongoring John McCain.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:31 am ET)
                     

                  Unfair?  She just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes, if McCain does that his career is OVER!!!

                  God damnit where is the line

                  I'll give you the stray thigh and laugh nonsense but when was the last time that happened, the last few months all I've seen is Rev Wright and the media cheering Operation chaos on when the math is plain as the sun in the sky

                  I say she should just pick Liebermann as a VP and GTF out of the party if she holds it in such low regard

                  Hundreds maybe thousands of lives are on the line in Iraq right now, we do not have the luxury of time to handle her delicate ego in this already over primary

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:50 am ET)
                       

                    This is unfair

                    Hillary Clinton says "Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again." She added: "There’s a pattern emerging here."

                    Yeah this is Grrrreattt for the party, let's drag this corpse all the way to McCain's inauguration

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 12:18 pm ET)
                       

                     

                    As far as what I wrote above, about The Huffington Post, you seemed to want more about it, but my post pretty much covered it. They make up their own misleading headlines (that are even lies), they're fixated on crap like the TV show "The View" (and they push Fox TV shows!), and sure, the last straw was the endless spewing of Clinton hatred.

                    You Clinton haters, by the way, you're crazy... did you know that? You imagine all sorts of things that the Clinton's have done, and then post and blog your imaginations to one another (on The Huffingtion Post for example), and you cluck back and forth like insane hens, working yourself up into a frenzy... all over things that you yourselves either made up or simply exaggerated way out of proportion.

                    You're crazy with hatred.

                     

                    Above this comment, you just said "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"

                    You're a liar.

                    You think you're adding anything to Political Discourse, by spewing crazy hatred and lies, about the Clintons or anything else?

                    You're not.

                     

                    You're a liar, and you're crazy with hatred.

                     

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 12:52 pm ET)
                         

                      NOW I'M FORCED TO EMBARASS YOU

                      Here's are the links

                      http://www.newsweek.com/id/136171

                      http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/08/558650.aspx

                      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23134717/

                      Yeah, we are all nuts but you, sure

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 1:04 pm ET)
                           

                        Are all those links lies moron?

                        Or would you rather explain the mathematically clear path she has to the nomination as of today?

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 1:15 pm ET)
                           

                         

                        I just linked to the MSNBC story you referenced.

                        It's title is "Clinton ally: Some whites 'not ready' for Obama".

                        The "Clinton ally" is Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell.

                        The article contains not a single quote of anything said by Sen. Clinton, nor does it paraphrase anything she has said... it contains this description though: "Several figures in Clinton's campaign, including her husband, the former president, have been criticized in recent weeks for raising Obama's race"

                        Please notice, if you can, that what's described there are (supposedly) things said by "figures in Clinton's campaign"... notice please that that's a description, but not a quote... and in any case, it absolutely involves nothing said by Sen. Clinton.

                         

                        Above you said "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"

                        And I called you a liar for it (and I also said you and your fellow Clinton haters are crazy, for the way you work yourselves up over imagined or exaggerated things, back and forth until you actually believe your own imaginations, and justify your own hatred).

                        Your link (the MSNBC one... if you want to squirm about, and say I should click the others, then you're wasting my time, because why did you provide the MSNBC link then)... the MSNBC story has not a single quote of anything said by Sen. Clinton, nor any paraphrase or description at all of anything said by her, least of all...

                        "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"

                         

                        edenscape246494, you are still a liar.

                         

                        And if in your hating mind, you have imagined that the MSNBC article (or any believable source) has said "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"...

                        ...then you prove what I said in the first place:

                        You're a liar, and you're crazy with hatred.

                         

                        And I'm not embarassed in the least, to say that, or anything else in response to your lies and hatred... I'm quite proud to do it actually.

                         

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 1:20 pm ET)
                             
                          LOL keep reading and keep spinning...you've addressed almost zero of my documented points and you've provided no links nor substance to your side of the argument
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 1:25 pm ET)
                               

                            LOL you sound like a nut

                            So you read one link, good for you, glad to see that the race wedge issue is ok in your mind, speaks volumes about your character

                            Read all the other links and then come back and explain why this preimary needs to continue and how Hillary is clean as a whistle

                            And meanwhile the troops keep dying...

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by juliajayne (May 10, 2008 5:29 pm ET)
                                 
                              Eden, knock it off. What Dem said about HuffPo is true. I applaud him for trying to reason with you, but patience wears thin with this emotional over the top rhetoric. The troops are dying because of GWB and his cronies. If Obama gets the nod (which is most likely), then he will have to make his case against McCain which I'm certain he is prepared to do. Have some faith in him. And calm down.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 5:33 pm ET)
                                   

                                What DEM said was thin JJ, unsourced and unlinked

                                He spouted off and I called him on it

                                I then provided link after link explaining why the liberal media types were turning on Hill's scorched Earth campaign

                                Then DEM went off the rails, called me every name in the book and then said I lied about what Hillary said

                                I then provided the youtube video of her saying it

                                I'll assume you did not read all the threads between us on this topic, otherwise I have no idea what you are defending here

                                 

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 5:33 pm ET)
                                     
                                  JJ see below
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 5:40 pm ET)
                                       

                                    as for the soldiers bit I don't back off that one bit

                                    Elections have consequnces

                                    And if McCain gets the advantage because Hill can't see the writing on the wall he may win and if he does soldiers will die because McSame has no clue what a Sunni is and he thinks its all Korea again

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by juliajayne (May 10, 2008 8:06 pm ET)
                                         
                                      You are not good with facts. But if your intent is to annoy everyone to death, I think your plan is working.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 8:53 pm ET)
                                           

                                        wow  biased much

                                        Just because you agree with his line of reasoning or lack thereof does not change the facts...a simple reread shows that everything I said was based on a fact with linked info to back it up, sometimes even audio and video

                                        In  retort DEM offered insults and a very odd explanation of why Hillary was saying what she was saying about white voters

                                        At any rate you are either being willfully ignorant or you still have not read this entire thread through, either way your attacks are unfair

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 8:55 pm ET)
                                             
                                          I'm also unsure of what to make of your lack of commenting on the substance of our argument (DEM and I)
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by mary59 (May 10, 2008 11:23 pm ET)
                                               
                                            The thing is this. We can all be civil to one another. I just attended our local house district meeting. Most of us were supporting Obama at this point, and an Obama campaign person from Illinois attended and spoke. There were also ardent Clinton supporters there. And...yet...we all got along and even joked with one another. There was a lot of good humor. One couple who just attended a house party for Clinton spoke about the event, but said that they planned a very large gathering in September for WHOEVER the Democratic nominee is.

                                            jj is right, no matter which one you support, at this point just ragging online or off against the other candidate is making you part of the problem.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by juliajayne (May 11, 2008 12:05 am ET)
                                                 

                                              Mary, you are exactly right. It's the time to come together. I have no patience for the people slamming either candidate at this point. It's counter productive. 

                                              Eden, I do not comment on the "substance" of your posts because it is useless to do so. And I am a very practical person. That's all.

                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 12:45 am ET)
                                                   

                                                WOW  Whatever credibility I held for you all before is toast.

                                                I almost have to laugh.  So DEM can call me a liar and a hater and its magically MY responsibilty to be civil, sorry ladies, F that.  I trade fire with fire.

                                                That the substance doesn't matter is the most cowardly form of debate concession I have ever witnessed, the semi Trolls at least have more dignity than that.  So I'm right that the primary is hurting the party and I'm right that Hillary is hitting Obama below the belt but all of that doesn't matter because she is one of our own???  BS.  Hypocrisy.  But then again, who cares, the facts don't matter.

                                                Let's just get back to commenting on O'Reilly and Savage while Hillary knee caps Obama, Gramps wins and the war continues

                                                Thanks for the eyeopener, I take it you all are yuppies

                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 1:30 am ET)
                                                     
                                                  I'm in a tough spot here. I have long admired you, Eden. Dem too, Mary and JJ also. The smart thing for me to do would be to hush and let y'all do what you're doing and hope it turns out for the best. But I can't do that.

                                                  It's time to heal.

                                                  Eden believe me, I know your anger. I feel it every day. But can you let the dust settle, please?

                                                  Mary, JJ and Dem, can you forgive Edenscape's passionate lashings?
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 8:56 am ET)
                                                       

                                                    I'm trying to tone it down Round and the respect is mutual, I have always found you to be very even handed

                                                    My argument with DEM was that he posted a rant with no substance

                                                    I fundamentally disagree with the idea the Huff, KO and Olbermann need to ignore the many infractions of the Clinton campaign, all of which I linked to the news articles and some evene included audio and video proof of what I was complaining about

                                                    DEM called me a liar and a hater and I gave him the audio and video that proved I was 100% undeniably correct. 

                                                    Did I trade fire with fire?  Yes I did.

                                                    As for JJ and MAry I just don't see what they are defending.  The thread is pretty clear hear.  Maybe DEM is the best guy in the world, and maybe my opinion is principled yet unpopular, that does not mean audio and video proof can just be gleaned over and my posts didmissed simply because the reader disagrees.  Well, disagree with the article.  Disagree with the audio and video proof.  That or provide your own.  But don't be so weak of defense as to just smear, attack and dismiss.  Unless directly attacked I never just lash out and I am not known to hit and run troll post either.

                                                    Howvever, since you asked Round, I will try and be more mindful

                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 9:00 am ET)
                                                         

                                                      I'll extend them the benefit of the doubt that they did not read all of the thread, the you tube clips that end the argument are below their comments and perhaps they were unaware of the context of the argument

                                                      Report Abuse
                                                      • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 11:19 am ET)
                                                           
                                                        You're a good guy, eden.

                                                        Your intensity makes me glad we're on the same side.
                                                        Report Abuse
                                                        • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 12:17 pm ET)
                                                             
                                                          "I fundamentally disagree with the idea the Huff, KO and Olbermann need to ignore the many infractions of the Clinton campaign"

                                                          Yeah, me too. The Clinton campaign has been a disappointment for me in that they have too easily adopted rightwing and DLC style tactics. The good news is they have been roundly rebuked for it by the progressive base of the Democratic Party.

                                                          What I find frustrating is the hostility people have for DKos. It's a people driven site, it's a netroots community in the most real sense of the idea. Anyone can write a diary, anyone can respond to it. It's the democratization of ideas and opinion.

                                                          It's worth noting that the Hillary folks chose to leave DKos, they weren't asked or told to leave. The Hillary camp made their argument, were refuted strongly by the community and caved under the prevailing weight of contravening arguments.

                                                          Democracy in action.
                                                          Report Abuse
                                                          • Author by juliajayne (May 11, 2008 2:42 pm ET)
                                                               
                                                            Hi Roundhouse. I have always liked you and do read your posts. Eden just blathers on and floods the boards with his "intensity". That's precisely why I don't care for him. I do not find that he is very objective and he rails and projects a lot. He takes one thing and presumes much that is not intended. I have said that I don't have a clear favorite and that slamming either candidate at this point is pretty useless. There is no point in me reading and or responding to Eden. IMO he could find better uses for his intensity rather than alienating other posters. Anybody trying to still slam one of the Dem candidates at this late is working at cross purposes. I think it's irresponsible. 
                                                            Report Abuse
                                                            • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 6:29 pm ET)
                                                                 

                                                              You know what JJ, I'm just going to be the bigger person.

                                                              Report Abuse
                                                            • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 6:41 pm ET)
                                                                 
                                                              It's a shame this in-fighting.

                                                              See, that's the thing, though. I identify with eden in many aspects. I too feel like I blather and alienate and project and rail and I don't always feel objective. I guess that's why I'm forgiving of eden's intensity. I understand his anger; I have no patience and I'm blunt.

                                                              I too have laid into posters with whom I generally agree and felt terrible about it later. I just think eden is made of better stuff than you give him credit for. I know you're a person of good quality, too.

                                                              I hope we all can get past this bickering because we need each other as individuals, as a web community and as Democrats.
                                                              Report Abuse
                                                          • Author by mary59 (May 11, 2008 5:10 pm ET)
                                                               
                                                            Roundhouse, we have similar views I think. I haven't ignored what Clinton has done in her campaign. My point is that the acrimony just makes it harder for Obama.

                                                            The yuppie comment by Eden is just ignorant and divisive. He doesn't have a clue and none of us need to get on a self righteous rant. Self righteousness, no matter how "right" you are, just defeats the very thing you are working for.
                                                            Report Abuse
                                                            • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 6:11 pm ET)
                                                                 
                                                              Mary, you're a sweetheart. You always have been.

                                                              I know you haven't given any lefty a pass just for being a lefty and I admire that.

                                                              I hope eden will take time to realize what an exceptional asset you are to this website.
                                                              Report Abuse
                                                              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 6:33 pm ET)
                                                                   

                                                                Mary

                                                                You didn't read the thread...period

                                                                Otherwise you would have A. seen that I was correct  B. seen that DEM insulted me first

                                                                I love this whole idea of me just taking DEMs attack for the team...whatever, fair is fair.

                                                                And to Rounds point I have enjoyed your and JJ's posts in the past, I probably still will.  But I must say I am diasppointed you all allow a double standard for Hillary and her divisive campaign.  That was where the Yuppie comment sprang from, had the Hippies not betrayed their basic principles we wouldn't need MMFA, the world would already be a better place.

                                                                Report Abuse
                                                                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 6:37 pm ET)
                                                                     

                                                                  ROUND

                                                                  Thanks again for the backup.  Again, if attacked I'm smacking back.  However, I promise to be mindful not to attack first and to try and keep on the message, I undersrtand what you meant.  I have a lot of family in Iraq right now and if McCain wins I lose a little bit more than some folks do.  This election is not a joke to me.  I feel that Hillary is risking my families life to satisfy her political ego and it pi$$es me off when others act like I am not free to comment on it.  Best regards.

                                                                  Report Abuse
                                                                  • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 7:27 pm ET)
                                                                       
                                                                    You're welcome and right on. I have two nephews in Iraq. I know where you're coming from.

                                                                    Eventhough the yuppy comment struck me as a bit harsh, I think you have shown humility in the way you have tried to make amends here.

                                                                    Also, I appreciate it but you probably shouldn't promise mindfulness to me or anyone. I think you're fine the way you are. If someone insults you, do your thing.
                                                                    Report Abuse
                                                                    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 7:58 pm ET)
                                                                         

                                                                      Yeah, the yuppie bit was harsh, it conveyed the emotion of the moment but in retrospect I believe it was overboard

                                                                      What was this thread about again?  LOL

                                                                      again thanks

                                                                      Report Abuse
                                                              • Author by juliajayne (May 11, 2008 8:03 pm ET)
                                                                   

                                                                Mary is indeed an asset to this thread and is one of the fairest posters here. I am glad she is here. 

                                                                As for Eden he curiously seems to forget that he did indeed attack Dem first by his snarky comment about Dem being turned down for a date with Arianna. That was not necessary. I think Eden is young and impulsive and doesn't think before he furiously jots down everything in his head. That's my problem with him much more than any ideology of his which is mostly in line with mine. But I'm not for tearing down Hillary even though it's in fashion these days. SOME of the charges brought against her are patently ridiculous. 

                                                                That said, I still am pretty ambivilent between the two candidates in that I don't care which is given the nod. I have reservations about both. I also see lots of good in both. Go Democrats!

                                                                Report Abuse
                                                                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 8:46 pm ET)
                                                                     

                                                                  Still with the insults

                                                                  My my my

                                                                  Report Abuse
                                                                  • Author by juliajayne (May 12, 2008 9:48 am ET)
                                                                       

                                                                    Yes, poor baby. I feel for you Chakka Khan. Now if you can apply your standards to yourself, we'll be all set :-0)

                                                                    Report Abuse
                      • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 1:27 pm ET)
                           

                         

                        Further, I just clicked the Newsweek link, and I see no quote of the kind you've alleged, namely that "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"

                        Stop wasting my time with links... put in your post an accurate and precise quote, and then provide a link to back it up.

                         

                        You work for The Huffington Post, don't you edenscape246494?

                        Because what you're doing, is what they do... you put false words in other people's mouth, just to justify your hatred of them... you "paraphrase" imaginatively, to the degree of a lie... you spew a frothing hatred of Sen. Clinton, and do it insanely...

                        You work for The Huffington Post, don't you edenscape246494?

                        Because if you don't, you should... they could use you over there.

                         

                         

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                             

                          nope, not employed by Arianna

                          yup, probably would be good over there

                          thanks for the props!

                          take the links as a whole, look at the material critically and ask yourself 3 questions:

                          1.  With no lead to speak of and not enough delegates left for this race to change is there good to come from more Dem infighting?

                          2.  If McCain says he has the white vote, or anyone from his campaign for that matter, would you be ok with that ?

                          3.  When McCain runs the 3am ad will it be ok then ?

                          Oh and here at 1.30 you can F'n hear the quote about white voters from Hillary's own lips

                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=GnltxSkP56Y

                          ready to apologize ??????

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:09 pm ET)
                               

                            Whoomp there it is DEM

                            Indisputable proof at 1.30, the straight dope from the Hill herself

                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=GnltxSkP56Y

                            Are you ready to concede that point?

                            And can you please condemn and reject what she said?

                            Or do you agree?

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:13 pm ET)
                                 
                              It's her macaca moment..the beauty of the internet age is that the truth is out there, just use the google and you can see and hear for yourself
                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 2:15 pm ET)
                               

                             

                            OK, I said you were a liar for writing "She [Sen. Clinton] just said yesterday that Obama can't win white votes"...

                            I asked you to include an accurate precise quote of the thing you allege (instead of flooding your posts with numerous links, that I find are dead-ends and a waste of my time, for not having any precise quote of what you allege)...

                            Strangely, you respond with 3 questions, that have nothing to do with anything I wrote, even once, in my posts...

                            And still no accurate and precise quotes, just more links, like as if I enjoy spending my time chasing you around the many rooms of a Castle in your own imagination...

                             

                            You're a liar and you're crazy with Clinton hatred, edenscape246494.

                            It was nice chatting with you...

                            NOT.

                             

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:18 pm ET)
                                 

                              again see her live saying it here

                              http://youtube.com/watch?v=GnltxSkP56Y

                              I did better than a quote, I gave you live video, damn my lying eyes fool

                              anyone following this can see you got pwned

                              watch the clip, 1.30 Hillary in her own words says the qoute word for word

                              dolt

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:19 pm ET)
                                   

                                wow this looks like Hillary Clinton saying just what I said she said

                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=GnltxSkP56Y

                                DEM, you got some egg on your face

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:23 pm ET)
                                     
                                  And I won't even go nananana nana or even say you were lying about her not race baiting, I'll just say that it is now apparent you were not in command of the facts
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:26 pm ET)
                                       
                                    Just say sorry DEM and I'll leave you alone
                                    Report Abuse
                              • Author by Dem02020 (May 10, 2008 2:26 pm ET)
                                   

                                 

                                The AP article/poll that Sen. Clinton referred to, is written by Alan Fram, and is entitled "Obama's appeal to working-class whites faltering, polls show".

                                In it, we have:

                                "In an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll in April, 53 percent of whites who have not completed college viewed Obama unfavorably, up a dozen percentage points from November."

                                That's the genesis of what Sen. Clinton referred to... that's it, that's what has all you Clinton haters abuzz today (and over at The Huffington Post, I bet you're all working yourselves up in an insane frenzy over it)...

                                In an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll in April, 53 percent of whites who have not completed college viewed Obama unfavorably, up a dozen percentage points from November.

                                 

                                I'm glad I got to the bottom of it...

                                http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_el_pr/obama_working_class_whites

                                 

                                 

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:29 pm ET)
                                     

                                  Tsk tsk tsk DEM

                                  That is not what you said, you said she never said it, you said I was lying, you tube just put egg on your face and now you are justifying the race baiting with stats...what are you Bill O'Reilly.

                                  Wow, what character

                                   

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:30 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Anyone reading through this can see you are shifting the debate...and into worse territory

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
                                         

                                      So that takes care of the lying foolishness

                                      About that hate bit, can you point that out for me somewhere in my posts?

                                      I fail to see where I said I hate Hillary

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:40 pm ET)
                                           

                                        inconvenient facts getting in the way of your next response Dem?

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 5:29 pm ET)
                                             

                                          and another one bites the dust

                                          Thanks for playing

                                          Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 12:15 am ET)
                   
                "This thread is about media bias, and nobody can deny that the Huffington Post is ultra-biased, and Arianna describes herself as an Obama supporter and has been spotted in a yacht with billionaire Obama donor David Geffen."

                So?

                Did Arianna ever claim that her Huffington Post is unbiased?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by edenscape246494 (May 11, 2008 12:47 am ET)
                     

                  Be careful

                  You may get called a liar and a hater for asking that

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 1:04 am ET)
             
          "The Huffington Post is about the most biased web-site on the Internet Wire that I know of."

          Ever heard of Newsbusters, Newsmax, Littlegreenfootballs or FreeRepublic? But just like huffpo, those sites are not part of the MSM nor do they claim to be impartial. So your post really didn't have much to do with anything, really. Except for maybe your frustration over Hillary's disappointing campaign and Arianna's vitriol.

          I'm with you in that frustration, though. I was very excited about Hillary's run. What's not to like about her? She's tough, smart and highly qualified. Then I noticed she had surrounded herself with those same old triangulating, centrist, corporate DLC Democrats that endlessly capitulate to rightwing ideas, not because the ideas work but because they seek to pander to Republican voters instead of making persuasive arguments rooted firmly in liberal values.

          But I'll hand it to ya, that was a sweet rant even if it had nothing to do with the thrust of Foser's piece.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Dem02020 (May 11, 2008 2:05 am ET)
               

             

            My post was in response to (and in agreement with) truthseeker77's comment... it had nothing to do with the Foser piece, because it wasn't supposed to. It wasn't a comment on the Foser article... it appears under and is in response to truthseeker77's comment.

             

            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 11:48 am ET)
                 
              That's fine. Write what you see fit. Speak out against unfairness toward Hillary all day and night. Much criticism of her is indeed unfair, just as a great deal of critcism (as with every politicians) has undeniable merit.

              Don't get me wrong, I respect the fact that you don't take the tear down Obama to build up Clinton attack line. That's a sign of character on your part.

              I just find it amusing that HuffPo never claimed any sort of impartiality nor does HuffPo belong to that (corporate) media establishment folks call the main stream media. So to complain about HuffPo's bias just kind of sticks out like a sore thumb in relation of this Foser article.

              Truthseeker got stuck in a Pavlovian moment. Foser mentioned Arianna's site in passing, didn't even quote a single word from her site and you guys released the hounds on her.

              Amusing.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by Lafn Bacstage (May 11, 2008 12:10 am ET)
           

        First of all, MediaMatters, Huffington Post, et al, are not main stream media. They are left leaning politically motivated commentary-alternative blog sites.  People flock to these sites because that's where unpopular (right wing) news can be found. Comparing these sites to ABC, FOX, NY Times, NBC, Clear Channel et al,  who steal the PUPLIC's air waves, is way off base. The last ABC debate between BO/HC is a perfect example of pejorative media's failure to communicate.

        Second, to Demo and Edenscape, take your piss'n elsewhere.   You two sound like a couple of spoiled brats.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by see it real (May 11, 2008 6:12 pm ET)
           

        Truthseeker, the REAL truth is that Arianna said that Liar McCain told her in confidence that HE, Liar John McCain, voted AGAINST Bush in 2000!

        Now, the unprincipled liar, through his lying campaign henchpeople, is not only denying that McCain said it, they are engaging in Karl Rove smear assaults upon Arianna.

        If Arianna were really lying, McCain's campaign henchpeople wouldn't have responded at all.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by carlileb5935 (May 09, 2008 10:48 pm ET)
         

      "If Democrats turn to alternate news sources in droves as a reaction to the media's sycophantic treatment of McCain?"

      What alternate sources? One of the problems is that the news media is being asked to critique the news media. That only works when you have more than two or three different owners.

      In the old days, every city had six or seven newspapers. All were trying to outsmart and out-criticize the other. Now there's one, and it's owned by the two or three local TV stations. They are not going to tell on each other.

      And if their owners are Republicans which they are, why should they change? They've got a good deal.

      People will get used to it. They always do. And they'll never know any better. Or care.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Science101 (May 09, 2008 10:57 pm ET)
           

        And if their owners are Republicans which they are, why should they change? They've got a good deal.

        George Soros?  NY Times, LA Times, Seattle....sigh.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (May 09, 2008 11:24 pm ET)
             
          Yes, please tell us about who owns the NY Times and LA Times and what about George Soros? Please tell us details about what you are trying to say. And what about Seattle.....? It has the space needle and is home to a billianaire and a lot of coffee establishments. Are you with the chamber of commerce? We need to know more. Please give us details. We can not read your mind.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne (May 09, 2008 11:35 pm ET)
               
            I ask Columbo because I'm pretty confident that you know zilch, nada, zero about the list you promulgated. But I'm dying to know the zombie talking points that have been indoctrinated into your cranium. So please, details, man, details.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (May 10, 2008 2:03 am ET)
                 

              Juliajayne, you wouldn't make a very good republican. Clodumbass mentioned Soros and a couple of newspapers, all trigger words that have been promoted, by the same conservative machine that is the subject of the above article, as powerful liberal boogeymen.

              You're not supposed to ask for any backup or detail, just react according to what you've been programmed to think.

              Besides, all you do is talk like a baby and smear people, so I don't expect much of you.   ;0)

              Report Abuse
            • Author by bruce1ace (May 10, 2008 9:09 am ET)
                 
              Seems to me that Carlileb was making the point that all the newspapers were owned by Republicans so therefore the industry is doomed and Columbus was making the point that not all newspapers are owned by Republicans.  Perhaps you have a different interpretation.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 9:28 am ET)
                   
                I believe she was asking for facts and details
                Report Abuse
                • Author by juliajayne (May 10, 2008 5:04 pm ET)
                     

                  The Colonel and Eden are correct. I was asking for some meat to go along with Columbos throwing out his bits of kibble. I guess his tactic works on righties who have been conditioned to react virulently to certain code words.....oooh, the New York Times.

                  Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (May 10, 2008 1:24 am ET)
         

      In fact, the discrediting of the media remained a major objective of the conservative movement for the next few decades.

      And the advent of Fox Noise in 1996 was the cap of the hat to this entire notion!  Well done!

      Our media no longer cares and our country suffers as a result and corporate whores take over the government..... Brilliant!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by HotWings (May 10, 2008 5:52 am ET)
         

      Mr. Foser, how can you possibly claim that the media does not have a liberal bias?  How much more evidence do you need?  The New York Times, The LA Times, Newseek, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and on and on.

      I know that it really gets under the skin of liberals such as yourself when people say the truth about the media having a liberal bias because liberals want people to believe that they are oppressed and have no voice.  It's part of their game.  Hopefully there are many more people like myself who see through that game.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MickD (May 10, 2008 10:01 am ET)
           
        Every outlet you mentioned are owned and operated in an attempt to create dollars. As information industries, wouldn't their "information" be at least skewed toward maximizing that profit?

        You say you see through it but that's the bottom line. A liberal bias would see anti-profit, wouldn't you agree?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by fawltylogic (May 10, 2008 10:40 am ET)
           
        You're just parroting the right wing indoctrination talking points that the article talks about. Please, show us the liberal/left-wing bias of CNN. Just saying "CNN" doesn't cut it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by netsez00565 (May 10, 2008 2:50 pm ET)
             
          CNN is in the tank for Obama.  Just go look at Caferty's blog and you will see that every question he asks is designed to promote him and slam Clinton and McCain.  On election nights their Dem, experts far outnumber the Rep experts, Their specials are all sided against religion, big business, and favor gvt run health care and entitlements.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (May 10, 2008 5:03 pm ET)
               

            Their specials are all sided against religion, big business, and favor gvt run health care and entitlements.

            Stop yer whining.  Poor religion.  Poor big business.  Guess they can't take any criticism in your book.  Actually they DESERVE all the criticism they receive.

            And govt. run health care would be more efficient than the system in place now where 18,000+ people die every year from a lack of affordable health care.  Or do you value insurance/HMO/big pharma profits over the lives of your fellow citizens?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by oscar the grouch (May 11, 2008 11:18 pm ET)
                 
              Just watched "60 Minutes". If DIHS is an example of government handled health care, no thanks for me.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 11:29 pm ET)
                   
                Good for you. Stick with the status quo. Stick with the unaccountable private insurance giants.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (May 10, 2008 11:07 am ET)
           

        Read the article HW. The majority of liberals seem to think the media is liberal. Can't imagine why. You list a long string of media as liberal. You offer no proof that they are.

        What has the so called liberal media done to drive home a liberal cause in the last six months, or year? How many are going to repeat their actions with regard to the run up to Iraq for the next neocon target, Iran. Will they be complicit again with another psy-op propgram against the american population? 

        Liberal my aching anterior penial body.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by Lafn Bacstage (May 11, 2008 12:24 am ET)
           

        Hotwings,

        Did you even read the article?

        Why do you even bother posting such pseudo intellectual flatulence? 

        Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 1:40 am ET)
           
        "I know that it really gets under the skin of liberals such as yourself when people say the truth about the media having a liberal bias because liberals want people to believe that they are oppressed and have no voice." hotwings

        I'm reminded of something I once read that goes something like, "we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."
        Report Abuse
    • Author by RINO Hunter (May 10, 2008 6:18 am ET)
         

      "For reasons having little to do with his reliably right-wing voting record"

      Right wing voting record? Compared to Fidel Castro? Compared to the average American he's a centrist or perhaps even leaning left. On O'Reilly the last couple of nights he took the liberal position on most of the issues being discussed. I could've sworn O'Reilly was interviewing a Democrat instead of a Republican.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 9:45 am ET)
           
        Well RINO, you can't blame someone for finally coming to their senses
        Report Abuse
      • Author by fawltylogic (May 10, 2008 10:42 am ET)
           
        The "average Americans" you know are obviously right-wingers. Just to take the most divisive issue: the average American is pro-choice (no matter what your right-wingers want you to believe), John McCain is not.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 10, 2008 3:53 pm ET)
           

        RH,

        You are getting to be absolutely hilarious.  What votes of his do you have a problem with?  Immigration?  Campaign finance?  Taxes?

        He voted for every Bush judicial nominee and every Reagan/Bush I nominee.  What specifically do you disagree with him on?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by RINO Hunter (May 10, 2008 10:51 pm ET)
             
          He supports amnesty for illegal immigrants, is against drilling in ANWR, wants to close down Gitmo and give FOREIGN terrorists U.S. Constitutional rights, opposes all coercive interrogation designed to prevent terrorist attacks, opposes the gay marriage amendment, supports embryonic stem cell research, believes in global warming and mandatory caps on greenhouse gases, etc. Also, his position on Iraq isn't really "conservative" in my opinion. Staying in Iraq indefinetely regardless of whether or not the Iraqi government steps up isn't conservative. Continuing an occupation in a country where the actual war was over 5 years ago isn't conservative.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eddy3957 reregistered (May 11, 2008 2:29 am ET)
               

            Also, his position on Iraq isn't really "conservative" in my opinion. Staying in Iraq indefinetely regardless of whether or not the Iraqi government steps up isn't conservative. Continuing an occupation in a country where the actual war was over 5 years ago isn't conservative.

            Very good.  Hopefully more real Conservatives will speak out like this.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 8:39 pm ET)
               
            "Staying in Iraq indefinetely regardless of whether or not the Iraqi government steps up isn't conservative. Continuing an occupation in a country where the actual war was over 5 years ago isn't conservative."

            Nice try, rino. I do appluad you for seeing the light but what you express is not a conservative view. You have expressed a thoroughly liberal view. You even used the liberal language of occupation.

            Also, what does it tell you about the tenor of our times and the attitude of average Americans that your never surrender GOP was forced to run a centrist like McCain? I mean you guys had some solid conservatives in the race but their extremist positions on taxes, healthcare, immigration, church/state seperation and national security just were not in line with the mainstream of American political thinking.

            Sorry, your GOP has drifted so far from sanity.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by RINO Hunter (May 12, 2008 6:17 am ET)
                 

              "I do appluad you for seeing the light but what you express is not a conservative view. You have expressed a thoroughly liberal view"

              I don't think so. I expressed a TRADITIONALLY conservative view. Conservatives have always been opposed to nation building in principle. I'm one of those conservatives who are still opposed to nation building and empire building. I don't believe that Iraq needs to be our 51st state. But you see, I'm not anti-war at all; I'm simply anti-nation building. I believe that we should use our military to fight and win wars rather than engage in costly nation building campaigns. That's a traditional conservative point of view.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (May 12, 2008 8:29 am ET)
                   
                Alright Rino. I'm not going to argue about it.

                It took cons like you long enough to come to your senses about Iraq that it would be stupid of me to keep reminding you sound like progressive.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 12, 2008 12:08 pm ET)
               

            RH,

            Have you been keeping up with McCain?  It seems you aren't current on much here: 

            1)  He supports amnesty for illegal immigrants, (Not anymore, he has said he wouldn't vote for his own bill now) 

            is against drilling in ANWR (to save us one penny per gallon, no thanks!)

            2)  wants to close down Gitmo and give FOREIGN terrorists U.S. Constitutional rights (WHATEVER HAPPENED TO INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, RH?!?!  Did you see the 60 minutes story on the guy we held for about 5 years for no reason?  He is only one of many.)

            , opposes all coercive interrogation designed to prevent terrorist attacks,  (He voted for what Bush wanted here, his speeches don't add up)

            opposes the gay marriage amendment (so you want big government enforcement?  He has flipped to an anti-gay marriage position, use the google.),

             supports embryonic stem cell research, (and you support throwing out embryoes if no one uses them then, right, how is that different than abortion?)

             believes in global warming and mandatory caps on greenhouse gases, etc. (So does 99% of the researchers who have ever done any work in this area)

            Also, his position on Iraq isn't really "conservative" in my opinion. Staying in Iraq indefinetely regardless of whether or not the Iraqi government steps up isn't conservative. Continuing an occupation in a country where the actual war was over 5 years ago isn't conservative.  (Sorry, RH, if this is your view, the only Republican you can admire anymore is Chuck Hagel)

            So, RH, I guess the only Republican you like is Chuck Hagel, right?  We do and have been torturing in this country in our name since Bush took over.  He knew it and ok'd it.  We executed the Japanese for waterboarding our soldiers.  Do you think its akin, as you say in a later post, to loud rap music?

            Report Abuse
        • Author by RINO Hunter (May 10, 2008 10:56 pm ET)
             
          Oh, and I forgot to mention campaign finance as well. The funny thing is that his own campaign finance law is actually hurting his own campaign. The moral of the story; be careful what you wish for.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (May 10, 2008 11:30 pm ET)
               
            Give him time rino, he'll be against everything he is for eventually. But you will still think that torture is okay and that it somehow works even though all the actual professional interrogators say it doesn't. How strange your "Christianity" is.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by eddy3957 reregistered (May 11, 2008 2:38 am ET)
                 
              Hey Mary, Rino may be going through a metamorphosis.  A change on Iraq for now---maybe he'll at some point also get that torture has never been a an American thing and so isn't conservative either.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by RINO Hunter (May 12, 2008 6:21 am ET)
                   
                I never condoned torture. But of course liberals don't differentiate between actual torture and mild forms of coercive interrogation. Mild forms of coercive interrogation include playing loud rap music and changing room temperatures. That's something that you can experience at about any college campus around the country. It's not torture. We don't torture here in America.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (May 12, 2008 8:33 am ET)
                     
                  Your rationalizations and excuses are sick hearted.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 12, 2008 12:01 pm ET)
                     

                  RH,

                  So, are you analogizing loud rap music to waterboarding?!  What about that meeting Ashcroft led which said that history won't look kindly on what we've done.  What about John Woo?  Amazing rationalizing going on here....

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (May 12, 2008 12:17 pm ET)
                     

                  We don't torture here in America.

                  Liar.  Face the facts.  America, behind you and your ilk's support of this administration, has tortured and probably is continuing to torture.  Kind of makes you proud to be anti-constitution, doesn't it?

                  Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (May 10, 2008 11:05 am ET)
         
      I don't think conservative bias in the news is bad these days. It was, but with the advent of Obama, the media has found a Democrat favorite.

      And don't mention Wright because that's the only major case of anti-Obama bias that you can cite this season. Bring a lot of evidence to the table if you want to argue right-wing bias.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:25 am ET)
           

        Stop!  Look around truthiness 

        We have a whole site worth

        What have you got ?

        Other than a bare a$$ ?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mary59 (May 10, 2008 11:29 am ET)
             
          Truthseeker needs to get a new handle, it appears to me. How about Bulldog?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 11:34 am ET)
               
            Any other words beginning with T come to mind ?
            Report Abuse
    • Author by netsez00565 (May 10, 2008 2:44 pm ET)
         
      Either MM is clueless or they are cleverly trying to brainwash you.  Let me explain why McCain gets favorable press.  The liberal media liked McCain simply because conservatives and other Repubs disliked him.  He is getting a free pass now because all the attention has been on the Dems. 

      As soon as Obama is officially the nominee the press will continue to back him and will turn on McCain in full force.  The media is just keeping their powder dry until the general election campaign starts and they can damage McCain when it counts.

      Watch and learn...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 2:48 pm ET)
           

        Hey NUT SEZ

        Where can I watch some liberal media, at MSNBC with Scarborough or CNN with Beck, how about Fox with any of those freaks???

        Where can I get some of that Liberal media I hear so much about?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (May 11, 2008 8:46 pm ET)
           
        You don't fool anyone, netsez. McCain is conservative enough for conservatives.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by netsez00565 (May 10, 2008 2:54 pm ET)
         
      So MSNBC and CNN have ONE conservative each and they are conservative?  Just watch them the other 23 hours.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by spooky3 (May 10, 2008 10:02 pm ET)
           
        Since you're here at MMFA, why don't you try doing a search of the names of various on air "talent" at CNN and MSNBC? You'll find plenty of examples of conservative misinformation, bogus bashing of Democratic candidates, etc. The research has been done; read it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by RINO Hunter (May 10, 2008 10:53 pm ET)
             
          You'll find plenty of examples of CNN and MSNBC not toeing the far left line 100% of the time. That's about it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by ConstanceRifleII (May 12, 2008 11:34 am ET)
               
            If by "far left line" you mean mainstream opinion...then sure.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 12, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
               

            RH,

            Please provide these examples.  What do you make of that "liberal" CNN hiring Tony Snow and Fran Townsend?

            Report Abuse
    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 3:00 pm ET)
         

      I'm saying the FAR RIGHT has the radio market cornered, they have a cable news station in FOXnews and its local affiliates, they have everything from TOWN HALL.com to Ann Coulter on the AP to see right wingery on the web and on MSNBC through CNN yes there is at least on righty blowhard minimum

      So again where is all that LIB ONLY media???

      Report Abuse
      • Author by netsez00565 (May 10, 2008 3:22 pm ET)
           

        As has been said over and over, LA Times, NY Times, Washington Post, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, PBS, NPR.  You must know that for every 1 con website there are 10 liberal ones, huffington, moveon, dailykos, foxhounds.

         Fox News is ONE station and it is only 10 years old.  Consrvatives FINALLY get a voice and the libs go nuts. 

         When my prediction on how the media will turn on McCain comes true I will come back here to say I told you so.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by MickD (May 10, 2008 4:45 pm ET)
             
          Wouldn't it be interesting to have a similarly reasonable website like MMFA to point out this so-called liberal bias in the media (through clips and quotes like MMFA does), and a site that would allow an open forum like this to discuss them. I won't hold my breath. Remember the word "reasonable."
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (May 10, 2008 5:09 pm ET)
               

            Maybe there's no conservative version of MMFA because the "liberal" press provides information while the "conservative" press provide mis-information.

            Remember, 16% of conservatives still think that Obama is a muslim.    And not too long ago 50% or so Fox viewers believed Saddam was involved in 9/11.  And probably just as many think Kerry didn't "earn" his medals.

            Ignorance is dangerously un-patriotic.

            Report Abuse
        • Author by spooky3 (May 10, 2008 10:05 pm ET)
             
          The average 8 year old can name all of the media outlets you mentioned in your post. When you have actual evidence (beyond names) to support your contentions about each of them, let us know. Meanwhile, as I suggested above, try doing a search of the MMFA site and you will find many instances of conservative misinformation and the like on these same outlets.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by netsez00565 (May 11, 2008 3:47 pm ET)
               

            First of all a lot of the "missinformation" found by MM is pretty weak.  Then those stations are not going to be liberal 100% of the time, they throw out a few conservative tidbits so left wingers can yell "what liberal media?"

            You watch and see how the press will treat McCain and Obama between now and Nov

            Report Abuse
    • Author by edenscape246494 (May 10, 2008 3:03 pm ET)
         

      Holding all the cards and still working the refs, to some, seems a trifle bit without taste

      nein?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jimflynnlotus2092 (May 11, 2008 2:45 am ET)
         

      Thank you. I've been an independent since '72. I used to trust some of the MSM; I trust none of them now. None. Jim Lehrer, Bill Moyers and Charlie Rose are the only nationally broadcast media members I trust. I subscribe to the NYT and the Sunday Boston Globe. I examine all I read in each against what I find from other sources on the internet. We were all burned by Ms. Miller of the NYT and the editorial staff that gave her front page inches. In the run-up to the Iraq war all of the media folded their tents and surrendered. They have not come back with any honesty or fairness in them.

       I have been personally boycotting all network and cable news since the first day of the Spitzer affair. I turned off the news during the Lewinsky and Impeachment scandals and didn't return for years. I doubt I'll return at all after this election cycle is over. The major news outlets have trivialized the issues coverage to pre-pubescent levels. I am an intelligent adult who has no desire to be insulted relentlessy by the fools who proclaim themselves as pundits. It's easy to avoid them - just never tune in to them in the first place.

       

      And they wonder why their viewer rates are dropping. Unbelievable!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (May 12, 2008 12:28 pm ET)
         
      I don't think the fawning over McCain is going to be the thing that drives people away from the MSM.  They've been so successful at creating the McCain image that that's all many people know about him.  Short of some spectacular public melt-down I don't see how that will change before the election.
      Report Abuse