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Eric Boehlert
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Me and Scott McClellan, brothers in arms

June 03, 2008 11:56 am ET

"Some Bush defenders, including former press secretary Ari Fleischer, [suggested] that McClellan may have had a ghostwriter or undergone heavy-handed editing." Washington Post, May 30

"McCellan's publisher, Peter Osnos, denies that a ghostwriter worked over McClellan's draft." Slate, May 28

Now that Scott McClellan has come clean in his book about the real nature of the Bush White House, I'll confess my own secret: Scott McClellan was a ghostwriter for my 2006 book, Lapdogs: How the Press Rolled Over for Bush.

No, really.

But let's be honest, prior to McClellan's new turncoat book, What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deception, where the formerly loyal aide confirms so many liberal critiques of the White House, as well as chastises the complacent media for rolling over for Bush, how many people would have even believed my unlikely tale of collaboration? Talk about a possible career-killer for McClellan.

And trust me, he understood the risk of colluding with a liberal media critic, especially while he was on the White House clock. I remember back when he was secretly helping me with the book, I'd say, Mac (that's what I called him), are you crazy? What would Republicans say if they found out you were being disloyal to Bush, as well as aiding to puncture the long-running myth about the "liberal media"? I warned him that party elders like Bob Dole would open a can of whupass on him if they found out.

But McClellan was committed to my project and insisted on helping me craft my critique of how the press adopted a flagrant double standard when covering the Bush administration. He was especially angry about the media's lapdog performance during the run-up to the Iraq war.

That's why I wasn't surprised by the revelations in his new book last week. In fact, they sounded a little bit too much like Lapdogs, if you know what I mean. (But Mac and I are buds, so it's all good.)

This passage from his new book certainly had a Lapdogs ring to it:

And through it all, the media would serve as complicit enablers. Their primary focus would be on covering the campaign to sell the war, rather than aggressively questioning the rationale for war or pursuing the truth behind it. ... [T]he media would neglect their watchdog role, focusing less on truth and accuracy and more on whether the campaign was succeeding. [Page 125]

So did this blast:

If anything, the national press corps was probably too deferential to the White House and to the administration in regard to the most important decision facing the nation during my years in Washington, the choice over whether to go to war in Iraq. ... In this case, the "liberal media" didn't live up to its reputation. If it had, the country would have been better served. [Pages 156-157]

And, man, did the press act shocked last week, or what? Tim Russert on NBC was stunned that McClellan was using "MoveOn.org" language to describe the Bush White House, and the Politico's Mike Allen likened it to rhetoric used by the "left-wing haters." (C'mon, Mike, don't be a hater hata.)

Me? I knew years ago that McClellan was privately fuming over the press' lapdog performance. Oh sure, he stood stoically at the press briefing podium day after day robotically repeating administration talking points and amplifying the White House's contempt for the press. But inside, he was actually eager for the press to challenge the administration. To show some backbone.

I must say McClellan was indefatigable in his Lapdog research, ducking out of White House meetings to call me and emailing at all hours of the night with new media outrages, examples of the press' complicity in leading the nation to war. (One annoying point: Mac kept badgering me to call the book Complicit Enablers, but my publisher thought Lapdogs packed more of a punch.)

Lapdogs just wouldn't have been the same -- wouldn't have been as complete -- if it weren't for the sharp media critique eye of my pal Scott McClellan. And maybe NBC's David Gregory and his Beltway pals should give it another close read if they really think they did nothing wrong with their war coverage, that they asked all the right questions and refrained from cheerleading.

Mac and I disagree with Gregory on that one.

After all, it was McClellan who fired up the White House Nexis account and tallied up the number of times the "liberal" Washington Post editorialized in favor of the war from September 2002 to February 2003: 26.

He smartly tipped me off to a study conducted by the McCormick Tribune Foundation that found a majority of Americans thought the news media could have done a better job informing the public about Iraq and the stakes involved in going to war.

He flagged a study by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting that focused on the first two weeks of February 2003, when the debate about the war should have been raging on the public airwaves, and found that of 393 people interviewed on camera for network news reports about the war, just 6 percent were people who expressed skepticism about the looming invasion.

And yes, it was McClellan who turned me onto research compiled by analyst Andrew Tyndall, who found that almost all the 414 Iraq stories broadcast on NBC, ABC, and CBS from September 2002 until February 2003 could be traced back to sources from the White House, the Pentagon, or the State Department. Only 34 stories, or just 8 percent, were of independent origin.

Mac was livid when he discovered that an ABC affiliate in Utah owned by Clear Channel Communications informed backers of an anti-war ad that it was an "inappropriate commercial advertisement for Salt Lake City." And Mac couldn't believe it when a CBS affiliate in Boise, Idaho, also refused to air the ad, insisting its claim that Bush lied about Iraq's WMDs was not provable.

In 2004, when Seth Mnookin's book Hard News was published, Mac immediately told me to dog-ear the page where The New York Times' former investigative editor, Doug Frantz, recalled how Times editor "Howell Raines was eager to have articles that supported the war-mongering out of Washington." And how Raines "discouraged pieces that were at odds with the administration's position on Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction and alleged links to Al Qaeda."

McClellan just shook his head in 2005 when he read Newsweek's Baghdad bureau chief Rod Nordland admit that when he arrived in Iraq two years earlier he had been "an unabashed believer in toppling Saddam Hussein." Can you imagine, I remember McClellan asking me, Newsweek in 2003 assigning as Baghdad bureau chief somebody who was an "unabashed" opponent of the war? We both scoffed at the notion.

Mac and I are no longer in touch (that was a prerequisite of our strict ghostwriting pact), but I'm sure he was fuming last week when CNN's Wolf Blitzer, responding to Mac's allegation that the press was too timid prior to the war, noted how often CNN had hosted war skeptic and former weapons inspector Scott Ritter to discuss the war.

Scott Ritter! Oh, that was rich. See, it was McClellan who dug up this quote (via the Daily Howler) from Ritter when he appeared on a C-SPAN call-in show in January 2004. Mac insisted that Ritter's response to a question about why he was rarely seen on television anymore discussing the war perfectly captured the media's complicity and he urged me to include Ritter's quote in Lapdogs in full, which I did:

Unfortunately, I don't believe the mainstream media acted responsibly in regard to Iraq. Back in the fall of 2002, I was belittled, I was called a traitor, I was called crazy -- Paula Zahn of CNN accused me of drinking Saddam Hussein's Kool-Aid for making accurate statements in response to aluminum tubes and uranium allegedly coming from Niger. I think we have a problem here in that the media is culpable for the misleading of the American public. They bought into the Bush administration's rhetoric and war fervor, they sold the war to the American public, and now they have to deal with the fact that they're the ones that were out there beating the war drums and you have this guy, Scott Ritter, who was saying something different and -- maybe they just don't know how to deal with me. [Page 273]

With What Happened, McClellan has become a big media star and revealed himself as a left-leaning media critic. His ghostwriting days are over.

But at least Mac can blurb my next book.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 12:05 pm ET)
         

      "I'm Bill O'Reilly, thanks for watching us tonight - McClellan in bed with Media Matters, that's tonights Talking Points Memo.  Well, we just found out that Scott McClellan has been secretly involved with Media Matters for years, the far left smear machine............."

      Great ammo Eric, I am sure your pal Mac thanks you! 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (June 03, 2008 12:19 pm ET)
           
        Nice try Tommy, but you're a day late and a dollar short! ;)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 12:25 pm ET)
             
          Nah, there was no mention of the MMFA connection last night, wait until O'Reilly gets a hold of that.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by captfoster2 (June 03, 2008 1:22 pm ET)
               
            I get the feeling that O'Reilly's eyeballs are going to pop out of his head due to his forgetting to exhale and inhale.... should make for some entertaining TV tonight over at FOX Noise.......
            Report Abuse
            • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:48 pm ET)
                 
              Let all their heads explode. I couldn't care any less.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 12:30 pm ET)
             

          Wow Snoop, thanks for the link.  You can hear the level of indignation in O'Reilly's voice.  He just can't believe what he's hearing.

          The most disingenuous part of that whole interview was when he asserted that McClellan was playing right into the "Bush hater's" hands.  

          Actually, the entire interview was pretty disingenuous on the part of O'Reilly. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wookie (June 03, 2008 12:43 pm ET)
               
            I just feel good knowing O'Reilly is there to protect us from angry. hateful people...
            Report Abuse
          • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:49 pm ET)
               
            I saw this one. Scott was as cool as a proverbial cucumber and O'Reilly was hopping mad. Billy's just pissed that he was owned on his own show. Awww...
            Report Abuse
      • Author by the Grey Path (June 03, 2008 2:15 pm ET)
           

        You're good at the game Tommy.  I still have not heard even one criticism of the content of the book; nothing but character assassination of the writer.

        So, apparently, even if Scott may be a jackass .... He's right.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 12:17 pm ET)
         

      Tommy the truth has a liberal bias!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:42 pm ET)
           

        Deep down, the cons know it and it burns them up. This is why they cannot win on the issues... instead they rely on fear, manipulation of facts and emotions, and downright ignorance to 'win'.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 12:19 pm ET)
         

      Well I'd be a tad more impressed with Porky Pig's tell-all if he had quit his cushy White House job & announced his intentions to expose what the barnyard animals were all about. But this is nothing more than a Johnny come lately book. Or in this case, a Scotty come lately...

      This book sounds like a yawner. Yeah, it's one more confirmation of what most of us already assumed was going on, but hardly a revelation.

      I hope Porky's book quickly ends up in some dusty bargain bin along with all those tell-all Clinton books.

      Too little, too late...Thanks for nothing Scotty.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 12:26 pm ET)
           

        This book sounds like a yawner. Yeah, it's one more confirmation of what most of us already assumed was going on, but hardly a revelation.

         

        I'm amazed that some can yawn at this administration's documented lies, which directly caused thousands of US Troops to make the ultimate sacrifice.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wookie (June 03, 2008 12:30 pm ET)
             
          Yeah, so another Bush insider reveals a mountain of adminstration lies and corruption. Wake me up when something interesting happens.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 12:31 pm ET)
             

          Then take your selected outrage to the Democratic Congress, who did nothing to stop Bush, either by defunding the war, or through impeachment proceedings. 

          Accusing other posters of indifference, in this case misplaced since you obviously have never read Jeters very fair assessment of the Iraq war many times on these boards, is a little silly, don't you think?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 12:38 pm ET)
               
            There was nothing "silly" about my post.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 12:49 pm ET)
               
            and yet tommy, there are still lots of people who argue that bush did nothing wrong, and the words of a bush insider are hardly anything to "yawn" about, nor to equate with some bogus "clinton tell all" books.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 12:53 pm ET)
                 
              And as I said, complain to your Democratic party then, they have done nothing to reign in Bush, as they promised to do when they were elected in 2006, and as I also said, to scold posters here is silly.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 12:56 pm ET)
                   
                You're the one doing the scolding.  And I'm not a member of the Democratic party.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 12:59 pm ET)
                     
                  I didn't say you were, but take your complaints to elected officials who fund wars and keep the Executive branch of our government party in check.....instead of taking a swipe at an anonymous poster here who simply offered his opinion on a book.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:01 pm ET)
                       
                    nice try to change the subject.  but he offered his opinion and i am allowed to give my opinion of his words. 
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:04 pm ET)
                         
                      Change the subject?  I said practically the same in both posts.  And feel free to give your opinion as much as you'd like, am I stopping you?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:08 pm ET)
                           
                        of course you're not stopping me, you can't.  but when you want to say that others are taking a "swipe" at someone for disagreeing with that person, i would say you have a fundamental misconception of honest discourse. 
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:12 pm ET)
                             
                          The Gov was essentially accusing Jeter of indifference where the lives of our lost soldiers is concerned.  Typical Governor crap, as I pointed out. Jeter was offering his opinion of McClellan and his book, he was not "yawning" regarding dead servicemen and women.  It was a thinly veiled hideous swipe, Governor is just mad at Jeter for ignoring him, so he slimes and slurs, as I said, typical.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:17 pm ET)
                               
                            actually gov said the yawning was at the administrations lies.   
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:19 pm ET)
                                 
                              Which directly led to soldier's deaths.  Read his entire post in context mefirst, he knew exactly what he was implying.  You can make excuses for him, I could care less.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:23 pm ET)
                                   
                                that's correct.  the administrations lies led to soldier's deaths.  so nothing to yawn about, in my opinion. 
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:28 pm ET)
                                     

                                  mefirst, what don't you understand?

                                  Here's what I wrote:

                                  This book sounds like a yawner. Yeah, it's one more confirmation of what most of us already assumed was going on, but hardly a revelation.

                                  Another words the book offers NOTHING we didn't know. Period.

                                  Had the guy written it a few years back, it might actually be very important. Now, it's nothing much more than a rehash.

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:35 pm ET)
                                       
                                    it would have been more important if he had written it years ago, but that does not mean that it has no value now.  i think it contains supporting  information that just adds to what many conservatives are still trying to deny, including the plame outing.  trying to dismiss it by putting it in the category of tell-all clinton books is not even close.  i see nothing to yawn about in the book.  we learn from history, hopefully.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:56 pm ET)
                                         

                                      Yeah, those are the pathetic excuses the Right is using to diss Scott and his book: 'why didn't he speak up earlier' and 'he's in it for the $'.

                                      Typical. Typical cynical rightwing BS.

                                        

                                       

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 2:54 am ET)
                                           
                                        Don't you just love that backsliding Republican refusal to claim personal ownership of the misdeeds of their guys?

                                        Their argument amounts to, "oh, it's your fault. You Democrats didn't do anything to stop this Republican administration from sellling the invasion of Iraq." As if conservatives have no Constitutional right to redress their grievances and petition our government. It's called personal responsibility you flippin' jerks, your side sure loves to spout off about it, but ya damn sure hesitate to practice it.

                                        Screw that pathetic weasel crap. The right had every opportunity to join us sensible liberals in protest. But no. They were far more concerned with shouting down and intimidating dissenters.

                                        To a man, republicans are a buncha sick pigs.
                                        Report Abuse
                              • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 03, 2008 4:44 pm ET)
                                   
                                Let the backpeddling begin!
                                Report Abuse
                          • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 1:19 pm ET)
                               
                            Your boy just resorted to insults, calling me "mentally challenged" and a "dolt".  Yawning at this administration's propaganda is flat out wrong and relpying to that with personal insults is weak.
                            Report Abuse
                  • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 1:03 pm ET)
                       
                    I make my opinions known to elected officals all the time and I do so without your marching orders.  Don't tell me what to post.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by DorisRussell (June 03, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
                   
                Fair point Tommy, the complaints should be made to the leaders of the Democratic Party, they did run in 2006 on ending the war and that has not happened. They also enabled our war criminal President and provided him with a blank check in 2002. This will end of course with a Democratic President .
                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:28 pm ET)
                     
                  A Democratic president AND an active citizenry. We have to go into the white house with our next president and keep their feet to the fire because all those corporate lobbyist bastards are going to be there too. Armed and funded to the teeth, they are and they will try to continue writing tax law and industry regulation unless we push 'em back.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 03, 2008 4:41 pm ET)
                   

                Actually, blaming the Democratic Party is incorrect.  You cannot say that the Democratic Party is to blame for the lies, misrepresentations, disingenuity and corruption of the current administration.  Scott McClellan's book serves to support what 70% of Americans have been thinking for at least the last two years:  that they've been lied to by an administration bent on keeping themselves in power, gaining as much more power as possible, all the while promoting their agenda as one which protects the peace.  Lies, spin, more lies and more spin - and you want us to blame Democrats in Congress for White House talking points? 

                Tommy, some of your posts are somewhat reasonable.  Your response above, however, isn't even in the ballpark.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 03, 2008 4:43 pm ET)
                   

                Furthermore, this isn't about the Democrats in Congress.  This is about Scott McClellan's first-hand knowledge of lies, spin and misrepresentation coming from the White House.  Deflection, anyone?

                Not even a nice try, Tommy.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:00 pm ET)
               

            Thanks Tommy. I don't bother responding to Gov anymore. The guy is mentally challenged so of course my post flew over his head. And of course he took something out of context to try & conjure up a point. Typical Gov. I don't waste my time with dolts.

            My point, as anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have realized [this leaves Gov out] was that Scotty's book would have been more relevant & important had he left his job & exposed what was going on asap.

            Instead he writes a book after the fact, that offers a rehash of what we already pretty much knew.

            That don't impress me much.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by DorisRussell (June 03, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
                 
              Jeter you are such a good poster, is it possible we all can go without the insults toward others ?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by political_left-religious_right (June 04, 2008 9:58 am ET)
                   

                I agree, Doris.  That was very disappointing to see.  What's more, I don't remember Governor ever using that kind of vitriol against Jeter or anyone else, so unless Jeter repents of his statements, I'm going to have to guess that he's of lesser caliber than I always thought (and certainly lesser than Governor's own).

                It will also be interesting to see of Tommy tries to come to Jeter's rescue.  Probably not this time.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (June 04, 2008 10:36 am ET)
                 
              I am willing to cut Scott some slack.  Writing this book was a 'crossing the Rubicon' moment.  I would not expect him to act impetuously like just quitting his job to work at Mickey D's to prove a point.  I could not do that.  Better late than never as far as I am concerned.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 03, 2008 1:03 pm ET)
               
            Yeah, OR... we could vote out every single republican in office, since they were party in power, and the ones PUSHING for war.  Be careful what you wish for, and make sure your own house in order first my friend.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:05 pm ET)
                 
              You vote any way you'd like, as will I.  Face it, your Democratic party did nothing they promised to do, if you accept that, fine.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:57 pm ET)
                   
                Veto-proof majority, anyone?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (June 03, 2008 4:11 pm ET)
                     
                  Tommy has yet to understand that concept.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 5:24 pm ET)
                     
                  So a veto proof majority is the only acceptable form of a Democratic majority? Let's be realistic here, the party now controls all the committee's and the purse strings. Just because they don't have a veto proof majority is no excuse for not following through on their promises. That argument is a cop out.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by mybrotherskeeper (June 03, 2008 11:38 pm ET)
                   

                TOMMY: " ... your Democratic Party did nothing they promised to do ..."

                Now I am afraid you have over-reached, Tommy. The Democratic majority in Congress was able, among other things, to pass a bill increasing the minimum wage, as they had promised to do. (And there were other things they did that they had promised to do.)

                I find your comment revealing. Instead of addressing McClellan's insider revelations about the push for a war with Iraq -- instead of war as a last resort -- you want to point the finger at the Democrats for not stopping Bush. Have you considered that maybe the Democrats felt they were betrayed by Bush, just as McClellan did?

                Report Abuse
          • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 1:43 pm ET)
               
            Uh, ever heard of veto-proof majority?
            Report Abuse
      • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 12:38 pm ET)
           

        "Well I'd be a tad more impressed with Porky Pig's tell-all if he had quit his cushy White House job & announced his intentions to expose what the barnyard animals were all about."

        At the time, according to McClellan, he really believed in what he was saying.  Why would he quit?  Only in retrospect does he realize the information he gave to reporters was wrong, and only in retrospect does he realize that many in the Bush administration intentionally mis-lead him.

        Personally, I think it's brave of him to come out before the Bush Presidency is over.  With the culture of fear and smearing that the Bush Admin. had used to stifle critics, it's a wonder any dissent is catalogued in the MSM today.  

        My ultimate hope however, is that this will help keep us from attacking Iran. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (June 03, 2008 12:52 pm ET)
             

          A wise man once said:

          "There is no shame in recognizing your failings or getting help if you need it. The tragedy comes when we fail to take responsibility for our weaknesses and surrender to them."

          I can't remember who said that, but I'm SURE he was really, really smart.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 1:00 pm ET)
               
            Wasn't that wise man your commander-in-chief?  Has anyone read "War and Decision" by Douglass Feith?  Leading Progressive and renowned journalist, Christopher Hitchens, highly recommends it, declaring it one of the most accurate books on the Iraq war on the shelves.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 1:08 pm ET)
                 
              Thomp.Steve Douglas Feiths book is full of denial and a piece of trash.  If you find it revealing of truth you are seriously delusional as is DF.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 1:12 pm ET)
                   

                I haven't read it yet, and not sure that I will (seems rather long with lots of words). But Hitchens said that it's very-well sourced, with all sorts of recently de-classified docs, and provides an objective appraisal of the intelligence and considerations leading up to the war . . .

                Report Abuse
                • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 1:43 pm ET)
                     
                  hitchens supported the invasion, and vehemently disgreed with those who opposed it.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 1:50 pm ET)
                       
                    so what? that doesn't make him dishonest. He was in favor of the war regardless of the alleged threat of WMDs. 
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
                         
                      i didn't say it made him dishonest, but he does look rather foolish now. like so many who insisted things would turn out one way and they didn't, and who mocked and vilified those who predicted correctly.  so i think he has good reason to defend the indefensible.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by Lorelei (June 03, 2008 2:23 pm ET)
                         

                      In favor of it?  He practically gave the war to Tenant to give to the Administration......you know.....looking at the "facts" in a different light and all.....

                       

                      Sheesh Feith was part of the orchestrator's of the information that LED to the war.  

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by foghornleghorn (June 03, 2008 4:13 pm ET)
                           
                        Feith was Cheney light - he did all the dirty work behind the scenes.  Lots of blood is on that man's hand and no "tell-all" book will make it go away.  Ever.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Lorelei (June 04, 2008 1:07 pm ET)
                             

                          Yes I would say that man is covered in blood.

                           

                          If not for him and the "office of special operations" Now disbanded.....har....right after they Looked at the Intelligence in their different light, then we might not have even gone to war. 

                           

                          Ok, well that is far fetched - they would have found another way to do it eventually, however, his hands are terribly dirty with the lead up to this thing we are calling war. 

                          Report Abuse
                • Author by BillJ-MN (June 03, 2008 1:44 pm ET)
                     
                  Hitchens is a conservative and has been a cheerleader for WPE Bush's wars.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (June 03, 2008 1:14 pm ET)
                 
              Oh sure, when he misbehaves he's my commander-in-chief.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by BillJ-MN (June 03, 2008 1:42 pm ET)
                 

              Leading Progressive and renowned journalist, Christopher Hitchens

              In what universe is Hitchens a progressive?  Outside of his atheism, he's been a solid fit in conservative circles for a couple of decades.

              Report Abuse
        • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:04 pm ET)
             

          At the time, according to McClellan, he really believed in what he was saying.  Why would he quit? 

          I'm not buying that. I find it a tad unreal to think he didn't have a clue...I don't consider him the least bit brave. He's out to make a buck rehashing what we already pretty much knew.

          But if you believe him, that's cool. We can disagree.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:08 pm ET)
               

            Exactly, if he was ghostwriting for Boehlert's book he certainly wasn't too pleased with the way the war was being covered.

            Right on target Jeter. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 03, 2008 1:42 pm ET)
                 

              if he was ghostwriting for Boehlert's book

              Tommy, you are being facetious, right?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:48 pm ET)
                   
                Col, Did you even read the piece here?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 03, 2008 1:54 pm ET)
                     
                  I sure did Tommy. I just wasn't sure from your post if you had read it as satire or on-the-level.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 1:56 pm ET)
                       
                    Satire dripping in egotistical blather.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (June 03, 2008 2:09 pm ET)
                         
                      OK, you've described your posts, now talk about Boehlert's column.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by BottleBlonde (June 03, 2008 5:08 pm ET)
                           
                        I do not believe that Boehlert was being serious. Did Tommy really think Boelhert was being serious when he said that Scott McClellan was a ghostwriter for his (Boehlert's) book?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mary59 (June 03, 2008 6:40 pm ET)
                             
                          It sure sounded that way...then after Col. said something, he switched gears. But what do I know, I didn't know that Applebees didn't have a salad bar, and I think that Olive Garden sucks.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by juliajayne (June 04, 2008 8:31 am ET)
                               
                            Tommy got punked by Eric B. He tried to do a save but was pathetically lacking. Funny though.
                            Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 12:50 pm ET)
           
        "Well I'd be a tad more impressed with Porky Pig's tell-all if he had quit his cushy White House job & announced his intentions to expose what the barnyard animals were all about."

        BOB DOLE? Is that you?

        No seriously, your sanctimonious and dismissive post doesn't remove the fact that if you didn't already know what a bunch of stinking pigs the Bushies were by 2004 you were just trying to hide your head in the sand.

        It's getting harder to take anything you write seriously. ;)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:12 pm ET)
             

          Aw hold a grudge much Roundy? Did I hurt your feelings on that other thread? Here's a kleenix, wipe your tears away.

          Seriously, get over it.

          If you missed my point here, it's because you, as per usual, can't even consider other points of view.

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 1:16 pm ET)
               
            No. I don't have feelings my friend. I just wanted you to see how utterly stupid you sound sometimes, Mr I'm so Moderate and Superior.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:23 pm ET)
                 

              Better than being narrow-minded & gullible like you Roundy. So is Scott is your hero now? OMG that's too funny. Are you really so clueless?

              Had Scott left his post disgusted with the Bush administration & this tell-all book come out I'd be impressed.

              If you can't see a weasel trying to make a quick buck then you're just blind.

              And BTW, I am the fair one. You wear blinders.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 1:40 pm ET)
                   
                Ha Ha. You sound like a child now. "I'm the fair one," you might as well say I know you are but what am I?

                I could care less about Scotty cashin' in, I'm not impressed by him and I couldn't care less how unimpressed you are with him. Thought you might admire his lust for money though, being a con man yourself. Maybe you can admire his on the job loyalty if nothing else. I mean he didn't cut and run or surrender. No, he was a good conservative stooge and stayed the course...in public anyway.

                Most folks already knew the truth about the deep tongue kisses the press was giving Bush. No news here.

                And if you don't like your own stupid words coming back on ya buddy, maybe you should more carefully consider what you write before you press post? Maybe?

                See, I don't buy your fair minded routine. You're every bit as dogmatic as me. You just happen to be a radical centrist unable to see reality any more clearly than anybody else. The difference is, I know what I am. I know I'm not trying to give any credance to the rightwing point of view, there is simply damn little in conservative thought worth considering.

                Keep fooling yourself, Jeets. Keep being Mr. Down the Middle. You'll pull in some good lefties to defend you because you're so unctiously ingratiating but I see your game for what it is.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by bruce1ace (June 03, 2008 1:49 pm ET)
                     
                  I like that term "radical centrist".  That's a good one.  You could market that with a bumper sticker and make few bucks.  I will strive to achieve that "radical centrism" if I'm not already there.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                       
                    That's fine, Bruce. The further away from the right you move the better the country will be. ;)

                    Take my slogan, please! And you can do the bumper sticker thing if you want. I'm not in it for personal glory or riches.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 03, 2008 2:04 pm ET)
                       
                    I consider myself an extreme moderate.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 2:07 pm ET)
                         
                      OK, well then I am a partisan independent.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:12 pm ET)
                           
                        I'm a bi-conceptual enthusiast.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by see it real (June 03, 2008 2:13 pm ET)
                           
                        Partisan right-winger, or partisan rightie, as Ed Schultz calls them, is a more accurate description of your political leanings, Tommy.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 2:18 pm ET)
                             
                          Coming from a liberal such as yourself, that means a lot, thank you.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (June 03, 2008 2:33 pm ET)
                           
                        I guess that makes me a quadraped hydrant humper.
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
                     

                  Well I'd rather be a radical centrist than a radical leftie [you] or a radical rightie. So thanks I'll take that as a compliment.

                  Your trouble Roundhouse is that you don't like it when you lefty comrades actually welcome other points of view. Well tough.

                  Keep those blinders on...I want to be there when you crash into reality.

                  BTW, if I'm playing a game...what's the prize?

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:10 pm ET)
                       
                    My trouble? Please, dude. I speak for myself and accept points of view for myself. As for my "comrades" (nice lazy minded socialist allusion, there Mr. Free from Sanctimony), accepting other points of view, good for them. I have no problem with that.

                    You're weak, Jeets.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (June 03, 2008 2:20 pm ET)
                   
                I don't know Jeter, I think him making bucks off a book is a good thing. At least he had to do some work and write it, unlike certain other people who left the administration and make oodles of $s opining.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 2:26 pm ET)
                     

                  I'm waiting for Cheney to 'opine' on this book. Not a peep out of him about it, instead, he cracks on WV and its people... dumb, dumb, dumb.

                  He really shouldn't get into the comedy business... conservatives are simply terrible at it.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 3:16 pm ET)
                     
                  McClellan should cash in.  It is apparent his carreer in Republican politics is pretty much over.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 1:32 pm ET)
               
            Your point is obvious Jeter. Although I disagree with it to an extent. The reality is that Mccllelan makes about the third person deep in this administration who have said the same thing after leaving their job. I'm not sure how the fact that they told all after leaving somehow makes their revelations untrue or flimsy. That being said, there are obviously some here who just can't stand another point of view. they sit in their ivory towers casting aspersions as to how bieng ultra liberal is so superior to being rationale and moderate. It's simply a clear cut case of narcissistic delusions coupled with pure ignorance. That's all. You should just keep up the good work. Alternate views are important.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 1:45 pm ET)
                 
              "they sit in their ivory towers casting aspersions as to how bieng ultra liberal is so superior to being rationale and moderate. It's simply a clear cut case of narcissistic delusions coupled with pure ignorance."

              Moi? Perhaps?

              Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. It was well worth the price.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 5:30 pm ET)
                   

                Maybe...maybe not. If it pleases your ego to assume I was referring to you then thanks for proving my point.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 3:08 am ET)
                     
                  Gee, why would I think you were talkin' about me, even if only in general? You only butted in on my and Jeets' to and fro.

                  Lame dude.

                  Don't want to risk reputation here? Too sissy to call me out?
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by jeter2 (June 03, 2008 1:54 pm ET)
                 

              Thanks Chris. The narrowminded sanctamonious crap that goes on here does get tiresome, but it's always nice when someone encourages other points of few.

              My problem with this specific tell-all book is more about McClellan's motivation in writing it. I find it difficult to believe that it took this guy as much time as he claims to figure he was being handed a load of bull, or that he was blissfully unaware of what was going on around him. Plus, I doubt this book would have seen the light of day if Scotty wasn't pretty much pushed out of the White House.

              Had he resigned because of he was disgusted with Bush & Co. & sat down to write this book I'd be a lot more impressed.

              As far as I can tell these are the "revelations" of a disgruntled man whose only motivation to tell his story is revenge or money or a combination of the two.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                   

                "Thanks Chris. The narrowminded sanctamonious crap that goes on here does get tiresome, but it's always nice when someone encourages other points of few."

                Freudian Slip? Or was that intentional? ;)

                Report Abuse
              • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 2:06 pm ET)
                   
                As far as I can tell these are the "revelations" of a disgruntled man whose only motivation to tell his story is revenge or money or a combination of the two.

                 


                If further exposing and documenting of this administration's lies hinders this country's pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations and makes it harder for elected officials to send US Troops to die in unjust wars, then I'd call that a win-win.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 03, 2008 5:23 pm ET)
                     

                  Agreed.  Righties will hate this book, mostly because it exposes the BS that they have either (1) refused to believe, or (2) intentionally ignored for partisan reasons.  It serves as support for those who have been questioning the administration and it's conning of the American public at large (via the press). 

                  And if it helps prevent us from invading other nations (such as Iran), all the better.

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 5:39 pm ET)
                   

                Jeter,

                That is a fair assesment. My disagreement is based on the fact that McClellan isn't the only administration insider to make these revelations. Richard Clarke, John Snow, and to an extent Colin Powell have essentially told us the same thing. I will conceed your point that it is likely that this book was written out of a desire for revenge, but let's be honest here. He was basically sent out to lie for Rove and Libby after being deliberately misled. that would piss me off as well. I applaud his courage to stand up and tell us what happenned and if he makes a buck off of it the so be it. I just think we can't discount what he tells us based on the idea that he is just disgruntled and is esentially stretching the truth to sell books. when three others before him say the same thing he does it pretty much seals the deal for me. Bush and his ilk manipulated intelligence to make us believe that Saddam was a direct threat to America when his real intention was to essentially engage in a crusade to spread American style of democracy in the middle east. Who was going to support a war based on that idealism? IMO the timing doesn't matter here nor the rationale. We deserve to know the truth and the families of the 4,000 dead American kids who died for these lies deserve to know the truth no matter who says it or why they say it.

                Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 2:54 pm ET)
           

        Jeter,

        I do think this is a pretty important book.  The fact that an insider is confirming much of the criticism of this administration makes the criticism seem much more than just a bunch of "liberal Bush haters" acting irrationally.

        This book is a strong confirmation of what we previously could only suspect was true.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 2:57 pm ET)
             
          The rub is if McClellan has written a book defending the administration's actions, it wouldn't be such an important confirmational book, it would be trash.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 3:12 pm ET)
               
            it depends.  there is nothing mcclellan wrote in his book that is really contradicted by other evidence.  "defending" this administration requires more than a bit of stretching the truth. 
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 3:14 pm ET)
                 
              I am not saying that anything in his book is false, I have no idea........what I am saying is that it is very interesting that he is the darling of the left, and the pariah of the right.....predictable.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 3:25 pm ET)
                   

                Then why don't the detractors on the right come out and argue the points McClelland made in his book instead of engaging in the usual worn out political namecalling?

                All I hear is 'he's doing it for the money' and 'he's disgruntled'. Yeah? And? Not very convincing arguments...

                Now if they came out with refutations of what Scott wrote then they may have a more receptive audience. However, I have this funny feeling that they will not do that. Hmmm...

                Report Abuse
                • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 3:30 pm ET)
                     
                  I believe Rove has, like it or not.  And many are saying what he writes is his opinion, that he was not as privvy to as much as others were so what he writes is his opinion.  You may not like what they say, but they have a viewpoint too......as I said on an earlier thread, the real truth probably lies somewhere in between.  
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 3:33 pm ET)
                       
                    In your opinion, is the jury still out as to wether or not this administration lied in order to wage war?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 3:42 pm ET)
                         
                      You'll have to wait for my book Governor, sorry.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 4:02 pm ET)
                           
                        I knew you would not take a stand on that.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:15 pm ET)
                             
                          Then asking futile questions is really your purpose here?  Glad you finally admitted that.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 4:18 pm ET)
                               
                            no, i think he admitted he knew you would weasel your way out of an answer, and you did.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:24 pm ET)
                                 

                              Get over yourself mefirst......you are fast becoming as irrelevant as the Governor is to me, so you can think whatever you want too, I am indifferent to it, thank you.

                              So if any of you want an answer, then ask a specific one, not some general "Did Bush lie" question.  Let me ask you, if you believe Bush lied then why did the Democrats not proceed with impeachment?  Lying into war is serious, don't you think? 

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:28 pm ET)
                                   

                                Uh, possibly because the Dems that wanted to go that route didn't have enough support from their own party, not to mention those from the 'other side'.

                                Just because they didn't go there doesn't mean they didn't have a valid case for it.

                                 

                                 

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 4:36 pm ET)
                                     
                                  that's exactly it.  if the democrats could get an impeachment passed in the house, they could never get 2/3 of the senate to convict.  meanwhile tommy's republican pals would be saying everyday that the democrats are attacking our president in a time of war, emboldening the enemy.  it's a no-win.  and i will ask tommy a specific question.  did bush lie when he said we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in?
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:42 pm ET)
                                       

                                    He violated tons of resolutions, that is his fault.

                                    Now I know you don't like my answers and feel free to disagree, but you asked, and you have it.

                                    Enjoy........ 

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:48 pm ET)
                                         

                                      So THAT is the 'new and improved' reason why we went to war? Simply because Saddam violated the resolutions? Wow... we really are shifting around all over the place, aren't we? Do you really expect me to buy that one? Bush and his rightwing cronies don't give a **** about the UN and what it says and you know it. Bush wanted this war and he used the sorriest of excuses to get it and now he is floundering around trying to explain it.

                                      Soooo... why didn't we go to war with Israel when it violated UN resolutions if that is such an important deciding factor?

                                      Report Abuse
                                    • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 5:00 pm ET)
                                         
                                      uh tommy, you didn't "answer".  you wanted a specific question and i asked one.  did bush lie when he said we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in?
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 5:21 pm ET)
                                           
                                        No.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 5:36 pm ET)
                                             

                                          but the inspectors had been there for two months before the invasion and  were pulled out because bush told the u.n. to pull them out.  so what is it you contend is not a lie.  clearly, saying we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in is a lie.

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 5:40 pm ET)
                                               

                                            Spin it anyway you want, you have your opinion, I have mine.  The reason we invaded was Saddam is because he violated resolution after resolution.  

                                            So, you asked, and you keep asking, we will not agree so it's moot. 

                                            We disagree. 

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 5:49 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              it's not moot, it's not opinion, it's not spin and it's not we disagree.  the inspectors were there, bush had them pull out, and subsequently said we had to invade because saddam would not let them in.  those happen to be undeniable facts.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 6:00 pm ET)
                                                   
                                                Oops, sorry, I disagree with that.......you will have to live with it, won't you?
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 6:05 pm ET)
                                                     
                                                  were the inspectors there before we invaded?  yes or no?
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 7:09 pm ET)
                                                       
                                                    the sounds of silence from tommy.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 04, 2008 1:00 pm ET)
                                                         

                                                      Why should we be surprised by his silence?

                                                      What Tommy is failing to understand here is that the issue of the inspectors isn't a matter of opinion - it IS a matter of FACT.

                                                      Just like you cannot opine about whether 1+1=2 or not... unless you are a deluded lunatic.

                                                       

                                                      Report Abuse
                              • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 4:28 pm ET)
                                   

                                you are fast becoming as irrelevant as the Governor is to me.

                                 

                                Perhaps then you can find it in your heart to not mention me... by name.... on MM threads I have not even posted on...

                                 

                                My goodness. 

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:31 pm ET)
                                     
                                  Tommy apparently doesn't like to be cornered with 'hard' questions and being asked to take a stand... I thought cons were supposed to be the 'decisive' folks who aren't afraid of taking a stand and who detest 'spin'... hmmm...
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:40 pm ET)
                                       
                                    Yeah, maybe that is why you spend your time here on a liberal blog where nearly everyone agrees with you......how courageous.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:43 pm ET)
                                         

                                      That doesn't even come close to addressing my post. That was about as good as one of those 'your momma is so ugly...' taunts.

                                      Try again.

                                      Report Abuse
                                    • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 3:25 am ET)
                                         
                                      Right. Sure. What simpering little brat of a reply.

                                      Why don't YOU go to a rightwing site and post liberal opinions? I don't think I need to tell you how fast you would be kicked out.

                                      You got it so good here, boy. You get to keep talkin' all your conservative smack, day in and day out, yet you're still posting in the heart of the leftwing cyber universe because, unlike the shrinking violets at freepersissies.com, liberals invite opposing views. We may tell you that your views are ignant and doubtless you'll say we can't handle you, but it always seems you and your brood are the ones carping about OUR point of view.

                                      Idiot.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by juliajayne (June 04, 2008 8:43 am ET)
                                           
                                        Yes, I love that canard that T and others throw out. A herd of liberals is attacking me (on a lefty site), Aaah. And they agree with each other a lot (ya think).
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 04, 2008 1:02 pm ET)
                                             

                                          Yeah, playing the 'victim' card as the Right consistently does. Awww. Woe is me. Blah blah blah...

                                          Report Abuse
                              • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 4:34 pm ET)
                                   

                                So if any of you want an answer, then ask a specific one

                                 

                                Do you think this administration was repeatedly deceptive in making its case to send US Troops to Iraq, where to date over 4000 have died?

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:40 pm ET)
                                     
                                  Repeatedly deceptive?  No.  Intentionally selective?  Yes.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 5:04 pm ET)
                                       
                                    in other words, they "selected" the info that fit their case and discarded other that contradicted it.  wait a minute, it's coming to me...."the facts were being fixed around the policy".  so you agree with the downing street memo. 
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 5:10 pm ET)
                                         

                                      Check. :)

                                      That is basically the premise of Scott's book and it is the very reason why the detractors cannot bring themselves to critique the actual substance of the book instead of attacking its author for to do so would be to acknowledge the veracity of the book.

                                      See how it works?

                                      Report Abuse
                                    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 5:26 pm ET)
                                         
                                      Downing Street Memo?  No.
                                      Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Brabantio (June 04, 2008 12:18 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Outside of the noted admission that the DSM was accurate, "intentionally selective" is "deceptive".  If you're selecting what intelligence supports your case, then you're presenting a deceptive case.  "Intentionally" makes it even more obvious, since what would the "intent" be except for going to war?

                                    How ridiculous.  Cherry-picking intelligence with a specific intent isn't deceptive, how?  If the point isn't to deceive people, then why do it?  And you have the gall to talk about other people having "spin" and being disingenuous.   You "disagree" with the argument that there were inspectors in Iraq before the invasion, as if it's an opinion.

                                    It's sort of funny that you boycott Governor's questions, as if there's a price to pay for your behavior, but then you act as if you can say anything you like and you deserve respect.  Anytime the war comes up you insist that Bush didn't lie.  You have no way of addressing the arguments, but your opinion is sacrosanct.  But you're not a Bush apologist, heaven forbid anyone make that scurrilous charge.

                                    How is making yourself look like an ass by defending an indefensible position any different from what you say Governor does ("If I ever get this bad, let me know..." or words to that effect)?  And he should be ignored because of his behavior, but if anyone talks about your worthiness here then it's because they can't handle opposing positions.  Disingenuous, to say the least.

                                    Report Abuse
                          • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:19 pm ET)
                               

                            It was futile only because you conveniently sidestepped it. Why would you sidestep a valid question such as the one posed by Gov?

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:28 pm ET)
                                 

                              Because the Gov is disingenuous, and I have no respect for him, nor am I compelled to answer him.

                              I will answer you however, if you say Bush lied, fine, then the Democrats surely should have taken action in the form of impeachment proceedings if that allegation is so cut and dried.  If not, then it's a waste of time and we need to deal with Iraq now, now five years ago.  My opinion, no, he didn't intentionally lie, but beyond that I offer no excuses for him or his mismanaged war mess we are now in, he is responsible, he is a failure, I will be glad when he if out of office.

                              You have my opinion, you are entitled to yours. 

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:34 pm ET)
                                   

                                Well, at least you get 50% for your response - yes, the second half was spot on whereas the first half... well, no need to comment.

                                Too bad that your 50% cannot undo those 4,000+ American military deaths and those God-knows-how-many Iraqi civilian deaths.

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by Governor (June 03, 2008 4:38 pm ET)
                                   

                                Because the Gov is disingenuous, and I have no respect for him, nor am I compelled to answer him.

                                 

                                You are simply not capable of assigning or dispensing respect on this forum.

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (June 04, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
                                   

                                You have my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

                                "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; no one is entitled to their own facts." --Daniel Patrick Moynihan 

                                Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (June 03, 2008 4:16 pm ET)
                           
                        tommy, please explain how rove refuted what mcclellan said.  he said that rove told him he was not involved in leaking plame's name.  but that was clearly untrue, since all the reporters testified it was rove and libby telling them, and not the other way around.   and that was before the novak column.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 3:50 pm ET)
                       

                    Not good enough. I still haven't heard anything of substance from any of them, Rove included. Certainly not from the talkers.

                    Now Cheney did just make a comment on it, saying that he hasn't read the book and has no plans for reading it, yet he referenced Bob Dole's saying about 'miserable creatures' in regard to McClelland. So Cheney basically is doing what the rest are doing - opining on a book they haven't even cracked open.

                    Sorry, doesn't wash.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 4:01 pm ET)
                         

                      So you're dissing those you don't agree with?  Gee, big surprise.

                      Have you read it? 

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
                           

                        Where did I say I was 'dissing' anyone?

                        Simply making an observation... nothing more, nothing less.

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:08 pm ET)
                           

                        To answer your question: no, I have not read it. Yet if you pay close attention you will that I am not passing judgement on the book, unlike Bush and Cheney and many others in the Administration who seem to know exactly what was written and why it was written without even reading it.

                        Wow... what amazing powers they must have... clairvoyance!

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 5:49 pm ET)
                       
                    I don't know Tommy. The man was the press secretary for the President of the United States. He had direct access to the President and countless meetings where policy decisions were made. People like O'Reilly have tried to tell us that McClellan is essentially lying as if they were privy to the access he had. It makes no sense. I for one believe what is written in that book as well as what was written by Richard Clarke and John Snow. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd chances are.....it's a turd.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 04, 2008 1:34 pm ET)
                         

                      The fact that the only negative responses to the book have been directed solely to the author instead of actually what was written is all the evidence I need to conclude that the book is 'the real deal'.

                      The Administration simply has no case whatsoever.

                      Report Abuse
                • Author by achrispage6992 (June 03, 2008 5:45 pm ET)
                     

                  Rabbitluvr,

                  I'll tell you why. Because people like Hannity, O'Reilly, and all the others have a sh!t load of egg on there face. They tried to tell us all along that it is ridiculous to believe that an American President would manipulate intelligence to sell a war. They called those who voiced that opinion un-american, un-patriotic, etc. Now that McCllelan makes essentially the third administration official to leave the white house and later come out and tell us this is pretty damning evidence that tghey were wrong and we were right. O'Reilly and Hannity would rather take a loofah in the arse then admit they spread such propoganda which was directly responsible fo rthe deaths of 4,000 American kids and countless Iraqis'.

                  Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 3:15 pm ET)
               

            Well, I guess it would be more expected for a former Whitehouse Administration official to write a pretty bland and supportive of the administration's view.  Such a book would probably be much more boring.  I don't know about calling it "trash".

            McClellan is generally receiving more attention because he did something unexpected - regardless of anyone's political beliefs.  To that degree any time someone makes such a clear break from their former employer, it is always more interesting.  I guess I don't really see the point.

            I think the book is valuable if not merely because this is a guy who was very close to the core of the administration who now almost entirely agrees with what liberals have been "crackpots" and "haters" for saying.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 3:19 pm ET)
                 

              I don't think McClellan is validating "crackpots" and "haters" by any means, what he is saying is that the run up to the war was packaged in its most negative light to make the case for going into Iraq.

              Crackpots and haters are irrational nuts who have all sorts of theories to defend their crackpot hatred, McClellan is not one of those. 

              Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (June 03, 2008 3:33 pm ET)
                 

               -- this is a guy who was very close to the core of the administration -- openmind

              That might be a bit of a stretch. By many accounts McClellan was not privvy to inside information...he had little access to the president other than being given his talking points for the day. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 4:26 pm ET)
                   
                If those accounts are from other members of the Bush Administration - which appears that they are - then they are automatically suspect. Why should I start trusting them now after all their lies?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 03, 2008 5:17 pm ET)
                   

                It's not that he was informed of everything that was going on in the Bush White House, Wesley.  It was the fact that McClellan was told to tell the press certain things - and he was to tow the line or otherwise be terminated.  His book is about how the administration misrepresented facts to the press (and therefore, the public at large via the press) and how the administration spun certain issues to their favor.

                Many of you might not see the importance of this book - and that's fine.  Some of you have already dismissed the book as opportunism.  If you take a good look, you'll see that the book is really about how the Bush Administration controlled the press by using misrepresentations and spin.

                I have not read the book, but I have read all I can about it - and I'm following news reports about it - in advance of getting my copy. 

                Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 11:37 pm ET)
                   

                While I'll say it is conceivable that McClellan was kept out of some discussions, but he was the official Whitehouse spokesman.  He was most likely aware of how the administration was at the very least working their messaging.  You tend to see who is feeding good info and who is not...who is feeding you an opinion that fits in with what you see and who is not.

                I don't know esactly what to think of McClellan, but I haven't seen any evidence he is lying so far.  I plan on checking the book out soon.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 3:50 pm ET)
               
            Thats right Tommy it would be trash because it wouldn't be true!
            Report Abuse
    • Author by hogprint (June 03, 2008 12:41 pm ET)
         
      Shrillary had a Ghostwriter for "IT TAKES A VILLAGE", whom she didn't give credit BTW, so why is this so hard to fathom?  
      Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 11:40 pm ET)
           
        The only people who apparently don't know Hillary is old news are Hillary and you.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by hogprint (June 04, 2008 9:05 am ET)
             
          Not sure what you mean Open, but I'd just add that 18 million Americans disagree with you (I know she counted Michigan and FLA, but I'm just say'n).  
          Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (June 04, 2008 10:52 am ET)
               
            We all have our preferences and Hillary even has her own math.  She lost. It's over.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 1:02 pm ET)
         
      Tommy,the information that was trotted out before us was false as Macs tell all repeats.  Now that said still there were alot of Democrats that were against the war.  Right on this site there is an article about how Sen. Kennedy's remarks were ignored by the MSM. I agree though that this administration should be held accountable for its actions: lives lost , trust lost, resources misused,but to lay the blame solely at the feet of the Democrats is unfair and a backhanded attack, especially since both houses were controlled by theRepublicans during the run-up to and several years into the war.  Republicans are still blocking attempts to get to the bottom of the lies told to  us and the world about this war.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (June 03, 2008 1:23 pm ET)
         

      Ghost Writers.......in the sand.

      I've come to the opinion that this colunm was actually ghost written by Jesus General. The Truth willout Eric, though if the general is involved it'll probably be truth willsideways, with a chaser. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Dem02020 (June 03, 2008 1:27 pm ET)
         

       

      I've not read the book, and have no intention to... if it contains any information that is new or controversial in it, then I guess it'll get out, and be repeated... from the chattering and prattling and honking and squawking so far, I haven't heard a single detailed thing that this book relates, that's shocking or a bombshell or controversial... what thing in this book (from all the chatter etc so far) "pins" anything of substance on anybody, the President or the VP or Karl Rove or "scooter" libby?

      Is the White House Press Corps at present awaiting the President to face them, so that they can ask "is this true?" ...and he can answer "No".

      I don't get it... where's the bombshell and the blockbuster and the shocker and the smoking gun and the evidence and the controversy, that everyone's prattling and chattering and honking and squawking about?

       

      I have never seen the various public media figures on this side of the aisle, on the side opposite the bush administration, I have never seen them this neurotic, that they chatter so breathlessly about nothing... they bark and snarl and snap at the air, like dogs who make a big show, because they're really just scared and are trying to save their dog faces, by looking attentive and watchful and on the job, when actually they are not...

      It kind of causes any real alarm and real alert and real news to get lost, and become just a different sounding noise, by comparison.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 1:30 pm ET)
         
      It seems that many of the Republicans place party above the needs of the country they are stuck in what Mac calls a "permanent campaign approach to governing at the expense of candor and competence." Mac was not an impartial piece of this approach but a key player and to downplay his revelations as old news to me is  apathy.  What it should do is drive us even harder to find out the truth, make us more vigilant questioning what our leaders are feeding us,and demand more openness not secrecy from our government.  No more ground should be yeilded to those who expound the imperial powers of the President.  Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  To dismiss this tell-all  would be a failure to learn from our mistakes.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (June 03, 2008 1:41 pm ET)
         

      Coming soon:

      Lapdogs

      How the Press Rolled Over for Obama

      By Eric Boehlert This Edition: Hardcover
      Publication Date: May, 2010

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by DorisRussell (June 03, 2008 2:04 pm ET)
           

        So I guess the Rev Wright was never a major story?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 2:10 pm ET)
             

          Main stream media outlets like Fox covered Wright pretty fairly.  However, the entire media, including the fair and balanced crew, continually ignore Obama's important connections with Father Phleger (sp), William Ayers, and his other terrorist connections. The media is doing this country a huge disservice by not paying close attention to these issues, which to any sensible person, clearly indicate that Obama is nothing less than a Manchurian Candidate controlled by those who want to harm America. Plain as day

          Report Abuse
          • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 2:21 pm ET)
               

            "The media is doing this country a huge disservice by not paying close attention to these issues, which to any sensible person, clearly indicate that Obama is nothing less than a Manchurian Candidate controlled by those who want to harm America. Plain as day"

            Man oh man, I can't believe that ya'll are still using the "Manchurian Candidate" scare tactic.  Did you see the movie?  Either of the movies?  Did you know it's about a POW captured by Korean/Iraqi forces (depending on which movie) and brainwashed for years to come back and win the White House.  Who does that sound more like, Obama or McCain?

            As for your guilt-by-association tactics, should I mention Phil Gramm and his terrorist-funding connections?  The Phil Gramm who is McCain's main economic advisor and a major player in the mortgage meltdown?  Personally, I think a key advisor is quite a bit more influential than a former Weatherman who was on the same board as Obama for a year or so.

            A vote for McCain is a vote for terrorist funding.  Period. 

            Report Abuse
          • Author by Dem02020 (June 03, 2008 2:21 pm ET)
               

             

            Sen. Obama wants to do harm to America?

            If that's "plain as day" to you, then you must live underground, or otherwise have your head stuck up someplace where the sun doesn't shine.

             

            Report Abuse
          • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 2:27 pm ET)
               
            One correction to my post.  Hannity's America has been devoting at least  a portion of its program to investigating Obama's background, revealing to America his real agenda. Although the credit does not all go to Hannity, as he often has fellow "Great Americans" on his program, like patriot Oliver North
            Report Abuse
            • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 2:29 pm ET)
                 
              That's your correction? Pathetic.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by RABBITLUVR (June 03, 2008 2:30 pm ET)
                 
              'Hannity's America' is a show for morons. You're better off getting your 'investigative reporting' fix from the town wino.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Dem02020 (June 03, 2008 2:34 pm ET)
                 

               

              That's good to hear, truly... for hannity and north etc., to harp on nonsense, just antagonizes the millions upon millions who have already registered their support for Sen. Obama. True. It makes McCain's job tougher, by setting his opposition up more firm and more energized and more motivated and more hostile. Absolutley true. It does nothing constructive for candidate McCain... I can hardly believe it does anything for hannity and north either... it sinks both their boats, and that's good. True.

               

              Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:35 pm ET)
                 
              Well, Jeets, Tommy. Here's your chance to prove you mettle. Where's that white hat wearing, whip-tongue lashing for the sanctimonious Mr. Thompson?

              Where is it on the regular, like it is for the lefties you disagree with, for Rino Hunter, Phillib and this guy?

              I know you take these cats to task now and again but not with the consistency you chide left points of view.

              Come on, fellas. Where ya at?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by tommy (June 03, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
                   

                Mr. Thompson is being satirical, I believe.

                Thank you. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 2:42 pm ET)
                     

                  I highly doubt that, really.  From my recollections, Thomp.Steve cites Hannity on a regular basis.

                  If he's being satirical, he should definitely let that be known. 

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 3:03 pm ET)
                       
                    Dbeden, I am kidding. I thought my comments were dumb enough not to be taken seriously. I do often cite Hannity though.  He such a f'n nitwit that he cracks me up. Like when he calls Great Americans fellow douchebags like North. His coverage of Obama is bone-chillingly stupid. In any event, sarcasm often doesn't translate when written by anonymous posters . ..  And I have seen the more recent version of Manchurian Candidate but I was drunk and did not understand the end.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by dbeden4153 (June 03, 2008 3:05 pm ET)
                         

                      whew okay good...I mean, I thought it was a possibility, but there are quite a few people here who have said the exact same thing you said, so I wasn't sure if you were actually being sarcastic.

                      Anyway, sarcasm noted and laughed at, I'll now go bury my head in the sand ;) 

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by BillJ-MN (June 03, 2008 3:50 pm ET)
                         
                      Good playing-it-straight delivery.  You fooled me.  Were you also kidding when you called Hitchens a progressive?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by thomp.steve9098 (June 03, 2008 4:07 pm ET)
                           
                        Thanks. I do like Hitchens though, but call him a Progressive just to needle people. The term "progressive" is too elusive. I don't really think Hitchens fits in any of those types of categories .. .
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by open_mind (June 03, 2008 11:47 pm ET)
                         

                      You've got that down-pat. Kudos to tommy for recognizing that sarcasm.

                      Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:44 pm ET)
                     
                  Maybe, maybe not.

                  It's good to be a conservative isn't it? All the whacked shit righties say can always be written off as satire. Hell, even the serious policy shit is satire in my book.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (June 03, 2008 2:47 pm ET)
                       
                    Still can't post the F-bomb. I'm alright with that. I'd probably wear out a few choice letters on my keyboard.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by juliajayne (June 03, 2008 3:47 pm ET)
                         
                      I've noticed you are getting more explicit. I actually liked the fact that MMFA had a ban on certain words. It makes the discussions more civil. I wouldn't enjoy coming here as much if the F bomb were available. I know I'm probably out of step since a lot of people do curse, but I think that being creative in word use is more valuable than using expletives. Not preaching, just sayin'. My husband and I don't use curse words at home because we're not naturally inclined to anyway, and it is disrespectful as well. Something to keep in mind. I hope you don't mind me expressing that OT opinion.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by juliajayne (June 03, 2008 3:50 pm ET)
                           
                        And you are free to call me Prissy Penelope if you like :-0)
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by eweston8542983 (June 03, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
                             

                          No,but there is a call for Percy Prithypitts.

                          I agree with you JJ.;-)

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by juliajayne (June 03, 2008 4:20 pm ET)
                               
                            Thanks Eweston. I notice you are very creative in word use. Expletives seem to take people down to a certain level of crassness real fast. Although I will admit a well placed expletive is sometimes very effective. 
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by eweston8542983 (June 03, 2008 5:34 pm ET)
                                 

                              The english language can be a lot of to fun to play with ,thank you. Though I confess word choice is often because its the word I remenber how to spell. You and a number of the regulars engage in good word play, I'm just trying to keep up.

                              Sometimes an obscene word can make a good puntuation point. It is somehow surprising to some that no matter how hard they insult someone. They don't change the insultees mind.

                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 3:47 am ET)
                           
                        I like the ban too, Julia. I still push things though, it's in my nature. But I don't find you prissy. You're salt Julia and I relate to you because we're both big picture thinkers.

                        I have become less of a sweetheart, that's true. I'm simply done excusing the terrible political choices and horrible thinking of righties just because they are sometimes cordial or nice. It just isn't worth it. Republicans are out of ideas, they lack vigor and they need to lead, follow or get out of the way.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 3:53 am ET)
                             
                          And Steve. Good on you. Your performance is impeccable.

                          Tommy. Nice catch.

                          (or perhaps you and steve are one and the same?) ;)
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by juliajayne (June 04, 2008 8:59 am ET)
                             

                          Hey Round, When I said you were getting explicit I was only referring to curse words. It had nothing to do with your ideas. You don't need to apologize for not being a sweetheart (although to me you are), especially when dealing with the more hardheaded types. Over the weekend I posted a link to an article that I think you might find interesting. 

                          http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm#_ednref25

                           Keep being righteous, my brother!

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 1:00 pm ET)
                               
                            Thanks for the nod and thanks for the link. I'm off to work so I can't read it, but oh, yes I will read it. I'm fascinated by the history of the cultural conservatives.

                            Keep it up girl. Much love to ya.
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by hogprint (June 04, 2008 9:00 am ET)
                           
                        Count me in for no F-carpet bombing.  If you have to resort to blue language then you're behind in the debate.  
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by roundhouse (June 04, 2008 1:05 pm ET)
                             
                          Not neccessarily. It all depends on context. You can be takin' a good arse-wharpin' in a discussion, get the bomb dropped on you. That doesn't mean your opponent has lost. It just means you're getting pounded.
                          Report Abuse
            • Author by snoopy (June 03, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
                 
              You say Ollie North is a great american? God, no wonder the GOP is in such desperate straights these days. Your warship of a known criminal as a great american shows how little your party cares about the rule of law and the constitution. You can't get more unamerican if you tried.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (June 03, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
                 
              ThompSteve you call Oliver North a great patriot???You mean the same Oliver North that headed up the sale of arms to Iran when we weren't dealing with "terrorist."  The same North who swore to protect and defend the constitution then trampled on it by using same arm and drug sales to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua.  You mean Iran-Contra-Cocaine  North???  You really are delusional.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 04, 2008 11:53 am ET)
                 

              Oliver North is a "Great American"?  Whatever. Oliver North deserves to be in prison. 

              Of course, you and Hannity believe he's a hero - when he's really nothing more than a traitor.  You right wingers sure know how to pick 'em!

              Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (June 04, 2008 11:01 am ET)
               

            Obama is nothing less than a Manchurian Candidate -Steve

            That is the ultimate in projection.  Who was in the military?  Who was held prisoner by a far east country?  Who can't remember Shia from Sunni or what he had for breakfast this morning?  (Hint - not Obama).

            Report Abuse
        • Author by truthseeker77 (June 03, 2008 2:34 pm ET)
             

          You mean the scandal that prompted Obama to give a speech on race that the media adored so much they compared him to Martin Luther King?

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by BillJ-MN (June 03, 2008 3:54 pm ET)
               
            Generally a scandal requires a scandalous act, or at least the accusation of such an act.  I don't recall any such charges being made against Obama relative to Wright, except by a handful on the furthest fringes of irrationality.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by commonsenseliberal (June 04, 2008 11:49 am ET)
           
        Truthseeker - you must have missed your typo.  I'm sure you meant to say John McCain instead of Barack Obama.  It's OK though...you righties can't help yourselves.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Lorelei (June 03, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
         

      Well, in my opinion, McClellan, once he knew his party and his president were full of crap up to their eyeballs he should have quit and run fast as he could to every news outlet available to him.  

       

      As we all know, he did not.  

       

      He can list himself as a reticent traitor to the American public, in my book.  Some things should be known, and he knew them.  Why wait......till people die to write a stinking book.

       

      It's shameful. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by dandec5947 (June 03, 2008 4:49 pm ET)
         
      Is it just me or does McClellan seem more at ease promoting his book, than he did promoting the Bush Administration. He was uncomfortable to watch behind the podium, but is much more convincing now, and this has nothing to do with what he is saying, but goes more toward body language.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (June 03, 2008 5:41 pm ET)
         

      Body language can account for about one third of the information passed in instances where its availible.

      Sounds like he's willing and able to back his current position with some internal integrity. Which is reflected in his body english. Good, its much healthier to live that way. 

      Report Abuse