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Jamison Foser
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"Media Matters"; by Jamison Foser

June 06, 2008 8:18 pm ET

If MSNBC is really "leaning left," why does Chris Matthews keep saying African-Americans aren't "regular people"?

The past several months have brought a congealing conventional wisdom among many reporters and pundits that MSNBC is lurching to the left. It is perhaps unsurprising that this story line would emerge. It is, however, nonsense.

Why is the story line unsurprising? Quite simply, several of its most prominent advocates have a clear interest in MSNBC being seen as liberal.

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, for example, attacks MSNBC (and its older sibling, NBC) for purported liberal bias. But O'Reilly is anything but a disinterested observer. Fox has always justified its right-wing agenda by claiming it is a necessary counterbalance to the "liberal media." With more and more Americans realizing how thoroughly the media are in the tank for John McCain, Fox's entire rationale for existing, always dubious at best, is in danger of vanishing altogether. On top of which, O'Reilly and MSNBC's Keith Olbermann seem to legitimately despise each other and to delight in their mutual disdain. Finally, the MSNBC-Fox feud goes beyond the rival anchors: Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes reportedly called NBC chief executive Jeff Zucker last year and threatened that if Olbermann kept criticizing Fox, Ailes would turn O'Reilly loose on MSNBC -- and that the New York Post, Fox's tabloid sibling, would join in the fight.

Then there is Howard Kurtz, who writes about the media for The Washington Post and is widely considered the most influential media analyst in the country. Last week, Kurtz wrote a 1,300-word article about MSNBC headlined "MSNBC, Leaning Left And Getting Flak From Both Sides."

Oddly, though, Kurtz didn't actually present criticism of MSNBC from "both sides" of the debate over whether the cable channel is "leaning left." Kurtz detailed claims from John McCain's campaign that MSNBC is "an organ of the Democratic National Committee" and is "a partisan advocacy organization that exists for the purpose of attacking John McCain." And Kurtz included criticism from supporters of Hillary Clinton that the cable channel has favored Barack Obama. But Kurtz didn't so much as hint at any concern by anyone that MSNBC routinely traffics in conservative misinformation and effusively praises John McCain. No, the "both sides" Kurtz presented were conservatives who see MSNBC as anti-Republican and Democrats who see MSNBC as pro-Obama. That's Fox-style "balance" (in which the cable channel features Republicans who criticize Democrats and Democrats who criticize Democrats) in the pages of The Washington Post.

Kurtz's transparently skewed assessment of MSNBC makes it impossible to avoid wondering whether Kurtz's relationship with CNN got in the way of his judgment. Kurtz hosts a weekly television show on CNN -- an obvious conflict of interest that Kurtz did not disclose in his MSNBC article. To borrow an analogy first made by Charles Kaiser, this is like The Washington Post allowing a business reporter to write an article critical of Ford while working on the side for General Motors -- without disclosing the financial relationship with GM.

Just this week, TVNewser quoted a "high level source inside MSNBC" referring to the cable channel as "the in-house network of Barack Obama." In relating the comments, TVNewser reported that "MSNBC has drawn criticism from pundits from both parties, other journalists and the White House, for the perceived, and often obvious, leftward shift of their lead political anchors Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann."

But this increasing chatter about MSNBC's "leftward shift" overlooks countless examples of the cable channel spreading conservative misinformation, a small sampling of which follows. (Note: According to the Associated Press, "The network has emphasized that MSNBC and NBC News are synonymous." Good enough for me. The examples below involve NBC, MSNBC, and CNBC reporters, though the overwhelming majority occurred on MSNBC, not on the sibling channels.)

One of the defining characteristics of MSNBC's political coverage is mockery and ridicule of progressives. Hillary Clinton was the target of a great deal of this, but so were Al Gore (as Bob Somerby has extensively documented) and John Kerry and Bill Clinton and others. And Barack Obama has received such treatment from MSNBC personalities in the past and will only face more now that he is the presumptive Democratic nominee.

Don't believe me? Almost immediately after Obama went over the top in the delegate count Tuesday night, Matthews began attacking him. Matthews went on an extended rant about Obama's purported inability to connect with "most Americans," because, according to Matthews, Obama has been poor, and he has been rich, but he has not been in the middle.

Later, after guest Harold Ford pointed to the fact that Barack and Michelle Obama were still paying off college loans just a few years ago as evidence that Obama is familiar with the economic concerns of middle-class America, Matthews' colleague Keith Olbermann retorted: "[T]here are people who are saying, ' "Still owe money on my student loans?"; we were so poor, we dreamed of having student loans.' "

So, according to Matthews, Obama's problem is that, having been poor and wealthy, he cannot relate to the middle class. And according to Olbermann, Obama's familiarity with middle-class concerns alienates him from the poor. According to MSNBC's election-night anchor duo, Obama has been too rich, too poor, and too middle class to relate to voters.

Given how frequently he invokes what he describes as Obama's inability to connect with "regular people," one can only assume Matthews must give the topic great consideration while lounging at the pool of his multimillion dollar Nantucket vacation home.

Matthews' election-night portrayal of Obama as out of touch with "most Americans" was striking in its intensity, but it was not a new theme. MSNBC personnel, particularly Matthews, have been trying out this anti-Obama theme for months. Matthews has attacked Obama for shooting pool ("[I]t's not what most people play. People with money play pool these days.") and obsessed over what he claims is Obama's inability to connect with "regular people" in "a dinette." And Matthews and David Shuster mocked Obama for the grievous sin of ordering orange juice in a diner.

Matthews has said of Obama, "[T]his gets very ethnic, but the fact that he's good at basketball doesn't surprise anybody, but the fact that he's that terrible at bowling does make you wonder." On another occasion, Matthews suggested that Obama's lack of bowling prowess "tells you something about the Democratic Party." Matthews has contrasted "regular people" with "people who come from the African-American community." He has suggested Obama should pick a Jewish running mate because he "need[s] some ethnic balance." Matthews has said Obama "seems a little foreign" and that he and Jeremiah Wright are "different faces of the same guy." And he has criticized other people, including comedian Jon Stewart, for using Barack Obama's middle name -- despite the fact that Chris Matthews was the first person to invoke Obama's middle name in a political context in any news report available on Nexis.

Cara at the blog Feministe has much more on Chris Matthews' troubling commentary about Barack Obama.

But Matthews isn't alone among MSNBC employees when it comes to insulting Obama.

Joe Scarborough has described Obama's bowling as "dainty" and suggested Obama is "prissy" and not a "real man." He criticized Obama for saying that he doesn't share all of his grandmother's beliefs -- less than a week after Scarborough himself had said the same thing about his own parents. Tucker Carlson accuses Michelle Obama of having "a chip on her shoulder."

MSNBC personnel like Scarborough and Pat Buchanan routinely refer to Obama as the most liberal member of the Senate, apparently relying on a deeply flawed National Journal ranking based on only a portion of votes cast during only one year. (A less subjective survey placed Obama in a tie for the ranking of 10th most liberal member of the Senate -- and McCain as the eighth most conservative. For some reason, MSNBC doesn't ever get around to telling viewers that McCain is closer to being the most conservative senator than Obama is to being the most liberal.)

MSNBC military analyst Jack Jacobs asserted that "Obama doesn't know what he's talking about" -- and, to support his assertion, misquoted Obama. That was just one of many times MSNBC reporters have distorted Barack Obama's record.

Howard Kurtz didn't mention any of that (or any other negative portrayals of Obama) in his article -- though he did quote McCain strategist Steve Schmidt describing MSNBC as "an organ of the Democratic National Committee."

Kurtz also quoted Schmidt calling MSNBC "a partisan advocacy organization that exists for the purpose of attacking John McCain."

In fact, MSNBC reporters have at times seemed like they were auditioning for a job in McCain's communications shop.

Again and again, MSNBC anchors and reporters have portrayed McCain as independent by pointing to his differences with his party on taxes, immigration, and other issues -- without noting that McCain has changed positions on those issues in order to align himself with the Republican Party. Other times, they have directly, and falsely, claimed that McCain has "stood his ground" on those purported departures from party orthodoxy. And they have adopted McCain's false explanations for his shifting views. And they have described statements that McCain has shifted positions on taxes, and on his own reasons for his positions, as "claim[s]" rather than clear facts.

John Harwood, among other NBC reporters, has called McCain a "Maverick" over and over and over. Even while acknowledging that McCain had a "phase in 2007 when he was getting a lot of flak for sort of flip-flopping and trying to court the right," Harwood declares that McCain's "maverick brand is intact." In contrast to the cable channel's treatment of Barack Obama, MSNBC's Mike Barnicle praises McCain as someone who "absolutely comes off as" an "Irish Catholic working-class hero."

MSNBC host Mika Brzezinski once suggested McCain is "the perfect candidate" (forgetting to mention that her brother advises McCain). Brzezinski's comment recalls Chris Matthews' frequent assertions that McCain "deserves to be president." Not to mention Matthews' statement to McCain that "you're in my heart" and "you show a lot of courage out there." Matthews has also said having to report on problems in McCain's campaign is "the worst part of my job"; described McCain as "a firm man"; compared McCain to Martin Luther; admitted, "The press loves McCain. We're his base"; admitted he was rooting for "a McCain-Giuliani ticket"; and asserted that "a lot of people ... like the cut of John McCain's jib."

In a promo for a McCain documentary, MSNBC declared that the Arizona senator has "mastered the art of straight talk," which raises a few questions: If he has "mastered" the "art," is it really "straight talk"? Did McCain have to practice telling the truth? MSNBC doesn't seem to care -- they just love repeating the McCain campaign's talking points.

In April, Matthews wondered why people "still think" McCain is "a straight-talk maverick when he's been in league with the president." Two days later, Matthews interviewed McCain ... and told him "you've been a maverick and a lot of people like you because of that." During the same interview, Matthews said "[W]e've had enough softball, Senator. ... Is Barack Obama an elitist?"

Matthews asserts that McCain's strength is his "integrity." (Matthews has also described McCain as someone who has "always been honest" and who displays "candor" and engages in "straight talk," despite McCain's numerous false assertions and inconsistencies.)

David Gregory flatly stated that McCain "is not going to pander to the right," despite the fact that McCain already had, again and again. MSNBC reporters have downplayed the extent to which McCain actively sought the endorsement of the controversial Rev. John Hagee. And Joe Scarborough has claimed McCain "has never attached himself to these people on the far right that say if you're gay, you're going to hell, et cetera" -- despite McCain's embrace of John Hagee and Rod Parsley, and his attempts to cozy up to Jerry Falwell -- who McCain once branded an "agent of intolerance" -- last year.

Kelly O'Donnell uncritically reported the McCain campaign's claims that they were surprised by controversial comments made by a talk-show host who introduced McCain at a rally -- despite the fact that the host has a long history of making exactly the same inflammatory comments.

Chuck Todd calls McCain a "moderate" -- a label even John McCain does not apply to John McCain. Mike Barnicle similarly claimed McCain is "in the middle." In fact, McCain consistently ranks among the 10 most conservative members of the Senate.

MSNBC repeatedly gave free air time to a McCain ad that attacked Hillary Clinton over her support for an earmark -- and MSNBC didn't tell viewers that McCain hadn't bothered to show up for the vote. And the cable channel repeatedly aired right-wing advertisements attacking Barack Obama while crediting John McCain for taking a "very strong" stand against the ads -- but without noting that McCain didn't actually do anything to stop them.

During the GOP primaries, David Gregory spread McCain's false claim that Mitt Romney had "disparage[d] the service and courage" of World War II veteran Bob Dole. That was not only a false claim by McCain, it was one that was premised on the notion that any criticism of a veteran constitutes criticism of the veteran's military service -- not a standard McCain has applied to veterans like John Kerry, but one that would be advantageous to McCain were it to take hold now. Naturally, MSNBC went along with it.

On another occasion, MSNBC gave free air time to a McCain ad that accused Romney of "chang[ing] positions like the wind" on his support for "the Bush tax cuts." Incredibly, MSNBC did not note that McCain himself flip-flopped on the Bush tax cuts.

David Shuster asserted that McCain may be able to "tarnish the image of Obama's political purity" by criticizing Obama for opting out of the public financing system for the general election -- but Shuster somehow forgot to mention that McCain's own "image of ... political purity" might be tarnished by the possibility that McCain is breaking campaign finance law on a daily basis.

MSNBC anchors and reporters have sat quietly by as McCain supporters falsely claimed that McCain called for Don Rumsfeld's resignation. Norah O'Donnell went further, asserting it herself. When she corrected the record the next day, she didn't mention the fact that McCain himself has dishonestly claimed to have called for Rumsfeld's resignation.

David Shuster uncritically repeated McCain's spin that he "flew coach" during the 2007 portion of his presidential campaign -- ignoring the fact that McCain's campaign expenditure reports show he used his wife's corporate jet.

When John McCain repeatedly confused Sunni and Shiite Muslims, Joe Scarborough leapt to his defense, saying that "99 percent of Americans wouldn't know." (Scarborough did not offer an estimate of the number of Americans who think it is OK if the president of the United States doesn't know any more about Iraq than they do.)

Mika Brzezinski suggested, and allowed a McCain surrogate to directly state, that McCain only once admitted a lack of economic knowledge. In fact, McCain has repeatedly admitted he doesn't know much about economics. And Chris Matthews has praised Sen. John McCain's "candor" and "honest[y]" for, in Matthews' words, "admitting that his strong suit is not the economy" -- while ignoring the fact that McCain had recently, and falsely, denied making such concessions.

Scarborough praised a McCain ad, saying it would "probably work" -- but didn't bother to note that its central claim was false. Two separate MSNBC anchors claimed that McCain's proposed gas tax "holiday" would cut gas prices by 20 percent. Actually, it would be 5 percent at most. (MSNBC later "apologize[d] for the confusion.")

Contessa Brewer described a McCain speech about the housing crisis as "specific and detailed on what the economy needs." In fact, the speech was so short on details, National Journal reporter Adam Aigner-Treworgy responded that McCain "didn't necessarily roll out any new economic policy today. Much of what he said, he has said before," adding, "I don't know necessarily whether it showed that he had a really strong grasp on all the details of a possible solution."

Mika Brzezinski has cherry-picked polling to claim "McCain's crossover appeal is apparently even greater than" Obama's -- even though two polls more recent than the one she cited showed precisely the opposite.

When news broke that John McCain sent a letter to the FCC on behalf of Paxson Communications, a company with which McCain had close ties and whose employees had contributed to McCain's campaign, Contessa Brewer asked "is it unusual if you get a letter from a constituent or a lobbyist on a matter, and you're concerned about it, that you would move on it?" A.B. Stoddard, associate editor of The Hill and a regular MSNBC guest, answered that it is not unusual. Neither mentioned that, in fact, Paxson is not a "constituent" of McCain's -- the company was based in Florida, not Arizona -- or that then-FCC chairman William E. Kennard expressed concern about McCain's letter, calling it "highly unusual." Downplaying McCain's letter was a pattern on MSNBC: Pat Buchanan said it was "in the normal course of business of a congressman."

And, unable to argue with a straight face that the media have not been kind to McCain, MSNBC personnel have instead justified the media's failure to scrutinize McCain.

Howard Kurtz, though, forgot to include a single example of MSNBC treating McCain favorably in his assessment of the channel's purported leftward tilt.

I've written a great deal about MSNBC's sexist and misogynist treatment of Hillary Clinton and numerous other women -- progressives, conservatives, and journalists among them. And about the appalling performance of Tim Russert and Brian Williams during last October's Democratic debate in Philadelphia. (And about Russert in general.)

Time and space prevent a full recitation of the evidence of misogyny at MSNBC, much of which can be found at the links above. It is worth mentioning, however, that even after David Shuster was suspended for saying Chelsea Clinton was being "pimped out" by the Clinton campaign, and even after Chris Matthews was forced to apologize for one of his many offensive comments about women, the boys at MSNBC -- and that is what they act like: a collection of 13-year-old boys with below-average wit -- still haven't learned to behave.

David Shuster and Tucker Carlson drove that point home in late April as they mocked Clinton's laughter during a segment in which Shuster gave Carlson a pen shaped like Hillary Clinton's head, with a mouth that moves as the pen makes a laughing noise. Thanking Shuster, Carlson said: "I'm really going to miss that cackle." Somehow, Shuster and Carlson managed to stop short of accusing Clinton of having cooties.

Pat Buchanan reinforced the point when he responded to criticism of his mockery of Clinton's voice by (incorrectly) quoting Samuel Johnson: "To see a woman speaking is to watch a dog walking on its hind legs. ... [Y]ou're surprised not to see it done -- not that it's not done well, but to see it done at all."

Classy guy, that Pat Buchanan.

But the questionable commentary on MSNBC is certainly not limited to sexist remarks -- not on the cable channel that brought you Michael Savage, Ann Coulter, and Don Imus.

On Morning Joe recently, co-hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski declared themselves "sick[ened]" by the story of a pregnant transgender man:

Scarborough said, "I'm not going to look at this," and Brzezinski said: "I'm going to be sick. I am going to be sick." Scarborough also asked, "What are you doing to me?" ... Later Scarborough said: "Please, let's move on. I really do feel sick."

In February, MSNBC's Buchanan bravely spoke up on behalf of white males, whom he defended as "the only guys signing the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence" (one assumes that there were quite a few women and black people in America who would have been happy to sign a Declaration of Independence, if only the white males had let them). Buchanan went on to falsely assert that white males accounted for "all the dead at Gettysburg, all the dead at Normandy."

And just this morning, MSNBC entertainment reporter Courtney Hazlett said: "Spike Lee got really uppity about Clint Eastwood and about how there were no African-Americans involved in the filming of Flags of Our Fathers or Letters from Iwo Jima."

***

The examples of conservative misinformation on MSNBC above are limited to this year, with a very few exceptions -- and they are by no means a comprehensive accounting of the problems with the cable channel's political coverage over the past five months. Given that all of that -- and so much more -- has happened on MSNBC in just the past few months, does that seem like a news outlet that is "leaning left"?

And that brings us to the other key problem with Kurtz's article (the first being his odd decision not to include a single example of MSNBC treating McCain kindly or Obama poorly): He suggested the cable channel is drifting to the left, but made no attempt to assess where MSNBC was starting from.

Kurtz didn't even mention Michael Savage or Ann Coulter or Don Imus. Didn't mention that MSNBC fired Phil Donahue for being critical of the Iraq war. Didn't mention any criticism of Iraq coverage at all. (The day Kurtz's article appeared, two former NBC reporters -- Katie Couric and Jessica Yellin -- criticized the network's prewar coverage; Yellin said she actually felt pressure from colleagues to take a pro-administration approach. Obviously, Kurtz couldn't have included this information in his article -- but the point that MSNBC -- like other media -- was excessively pro-war is not a new one.)

Has MSNBC moved slightly leftward over the past six months? Perhaps -- but look where it started: As the network of Imus and Savage and Coulter and Carlson; of relentless misogyny; of mocking Democrats as abnormal and weak and ineffectual and elitists; and of absolutely fawning coverage of John McCain (and, before him, George W. Bush). Even if MSNBC has begun to move leftward, it has a long way to go before it stops regularly trafficking in conservative misinformation.

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    • Author by ajzito (June 06, 2008 9:01 pm ET)
         
      The usual tour de force of well-researched and documented facts.  The sad part is, Mr. Foser might well have more impact if he managed to get an interview on MSNBC and bellow that it's Cindy McCain who has cooties.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by leatherhelmet (June 08, 2008 1:15 pm ET)
           

        Well-reseached facts?

         "With more and more Americans realizing how thoroughly the media are in the tank for John McCain"

        What a load of hogwash.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by eweston8542983 (June 08, 2008 2:13 pm ET)
             

          Whitewash, delousing agent, interperter of McLugie's mistatements, and general GOP facilitator. Does that work better for you?

          He's changed his position so many times on so many issues his brain must be feeing like its doing a marathon bungie jump event.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 09, 2008 9:19 am ET)
             
          Keep your helmet on.  Your head apparently needs the protection.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by mefirst (June 06, 2008 9:04 pm ET)
         

      msnbc was just one media outlet that helped lead us into this war.  bush bootlicker kathleen parker just wrote a column about scott mcclellan's new book.  parker was one of the chief cheerleaders for the war, smugly dismissing all the concerns that turned out to be correct, and attacking those who dissented from the "let's go kick ass" rhetoric. 

      parker's column can be summed up in it's final sentence:  "because no matter how sweet the revenge, on the playground, the snitch is trusted by no one."   how freudian of her to use that language, considering her own infantile adoration of bush.  the problem is never with bush and his lies, it's always those who oppose him, usually democrats.   it will be a wonderful day when that lying fraud is gone from the white house.   the fact that bush surrounded himself with fellow liars like rove and cheney was no mistake.  peas in a pod.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (June 06, 2008 9:25 pm ET)
           

        here's parker declaring victory a month after the invasion in 2003.  of course the "anti-war" crowd that she claimed was eating crow never said that we couldn't defeat saddam.  the tricky part would be the "peace".  as we sit here 5 plus years and hundreds of billions later, those predictions look pretty accurate.  

        http://www.jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker041403.asp

        Report Abuse
        • Author by MickD (June 07, 2008 2:48 am ET)
             
          Kathleen Parker (Malkin, Coulter, et al) and the other female cheerleaders for the Republic-cons are the saddest women in media. They essentially carry water for a party and philosophy who cares nothing about their concerns as citizens. Judas had nothing on these gals.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Limit Corp. Ownership (June 06, 2008 9:31 pm ET)
         

      "Given how frequently he invokes what he describes as Obama's inability to connect with "regular people," one can only assume Matthews must give the topic great consideration while lounging at the pool of his multimillion dollar Nantucket vacation home."

      Priceless!!! 

       

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 06, 2008 10:43 pm ET)
           

        Where the hell are you, Sueeld? Did you black out?   ;0)

        This is intersting as an illustration of how far to the right the media has shifted.MSNBC has a couple of shows, noticably Countdown, where there are a few segments completely free of some righty wingnut screaming talking points, and there's always somebody here to complain about Olbermann not having on  conservative guests.

        When "Fair & Balanced" has been defined as Susan Estrich having a minute on Hannity & Colmes to agree with all the BS before offering a sheepish apology on behalf of the Democratic party, MSNBC becomes the Radical Left.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by August Heat (June 07, 2008 9:43 pm ET)
             
          Absolutely agree.  Whenever the liberal view is expressed in the media opposing forces seem to belly ache the liberal media is running this country.  All I ever hear is the conservative points on everything from MSNBC to CNN.  I don't give a rats arse how bias Olby-Wan is, he is speaking up for a large portion of America who are forced to believe the majority of the country agrees with these conservative, lying, corrupt clowns like O'Reilly and Hannity.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mybrotherskeeper (June 09, 2008 9:35 am ET)
               
            I do have to give credit to MSNBC -- and Norah O'Donnell in particular -- for giving some airtime to John McCain's recent misstatements about Iraq. I wonder if her questioning on these matters is what led the GOP and the McCain camp to attack MSNBC. I have not seen any other network pursue those questions about McCain's natioinal security/commander-in-chief credentials as aggressively or persistently as she did.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 12:53 pm ET)
             

          Where the hell are you, Sueeld? Did you black out?   ;0)

          I am here Col ;-) I love you too.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by foghornleghorn (June 07, 2008 11:57 am ET)
           

        Matthews must give the topic great consideration...

        Every time he goest to the dinette for breakfast as well.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 12:52 pm ET)
             

          Matthews really has become the man with the ego. MSNBC started on this path when Matthews was given more power at the network. Remember even last fall when he kept talking about his love for Rudy, how Rudy got rid of pee. It was quite an amazing time at MSNBC, he had wanted to annoint Rudy the next President, he even tried to diminish people like Obama and Hillary , then after Rudy left, McCain became his man.

          I would be very weary of anything Matthews says at this point.  It is going to be quite an interesting 5 months. 

          Report Abuse
    • Author by albert802 (June 06, 2008 9:48 pm ET)
         
      Wolf Blitzer wondered today what McCain and Obama's solutions were  to high gas prices.  Shouldn't you be wondering what Cheney and bush solutions are?  After all, I think they're still in charge and it has been on their watch when gas prices went through the roof.  Can't get through to those boys?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by draftedin68 (June 06, 2008 10:46 pm ET)
         

      'nuff said...

      Nothing more need be said about the sad state of affairs for broadcast journalism in the U.S. than "Howard Kurtz ... is widely considered the most influential media analyst in the country."

      If Edward R. Murrow were to come back and see what is being done in the name of journalism, he'd never stop throwing up.

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MickD (June 07, 2008 11:37 am ET)
           
        But Murrow existed in a age where the medium was new, and the moguls who owned the networks felt a responsibility as a watchdog – allowing their news divisions to often run in the red – in exchange for their tremendous profits.

        Now it's bottom line all the time and if the "news" can create a revenue stream, they don't care what it says. Let us eat talking points.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by DeanOR (June 07, 2008 12:18 am ET)
         

      The network, like Obama himself, leans one degree to the left at times, while touting conservative talking points on crucial issues, and is thus considered to be oh so liberal. Our political discourse is completely out of whack. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by steeve (June 07, 2008 1:09 am ET)
         
      Ask anyone who thinks MSNBC is liberal if they think Matthews is liberal.  When they say "yes", you can safely dismiss their opinion and move on.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by elijah (June 07, 2008 2:33 am ET)
         

      Your assessment of NBC and MSNBC is well-taken, but I find it heartening that they have had the political courage to give more prominence to liberal voices in news and punditry.  Keith Olbermann's "Countdown," especially its first half hour, is one of the best news program available anywhere.  Olbermann's use of first-rate commentators like Richard Wolffe, Jonathan Alter, Eugene Robinson, John Dean, and Rachel Maddow, among others, is part of what makes this program so substantial.  Moreover, Maddow, one of the most thoughtful and articulate liberal voices in both radio and television, is regularly featured as a panelist on other MSNBC programs, including David Gregory's current program devoted to the 2008 elections.

      The fact that Tucker Carlson has lost his plum 6 p.m. slot and Scarborough has been moved to early morning suggests the decline of conservative bloviation in MSNBC's lineup.  It's still not as balanced as one might like, but it has moved with the times.

      More attention needs to be given (as you have begun to do in your discussion of Howard Kurtz) to the tendency of the media to view politics in terms of "left" and "right."  This trope serves the needs of so-called conservatives in affording them a convenient bludgeon with which to attack those they disagree with.  "Far left," and "most liberal" are among the most common epithets, and they've been given false respectability by the American Journal's survey of members of Congress in terms of the "quantity" of their liberalness.  Viewing all political opinion on an imaginary spectrum of closeness to or distance from Karl Marx has done much damage to public discourse in America.  Political issues need to be assessed in terms of their closeness to or distance from truth and rationality -- a criterion that should transcend party or political allegiance.  Conservatives working the refs over many years has served to undermine genuine political dialogue in this country.  

      The fact that MSNBC is attacked as being the organ of the Democratic Party or Sen. Obama  is part of this malady.  The fact that, with some exceptions, Democrats in general and Sen. Obama in particular espouse a politics that is more rational, closer to reality, and more responsive to the public good should entitle them to more favorable comment than their opponents, and it is not "liberal bias" to say so.  The notion that the media must give equal time to rational and irrational voices in politics is part of what has helped to destroy the mainstream media in America.

      Chris Matthews is an odd bird.  To his eternal shame, he once fawned over George Bush, and to some extent does so over Sen. McCain, but he also dislikes the Iraq war and recently skewered mercilessly (and memorably) a conservative blowhard over the issue of "appeasement."   Often it seems that Matthews turns whichever way the wind is blowing.  He fancies himself a consummate insider but he frequently says things that demonstrate how out of touch insiders so often are.  I found interesting Hendrik Hertzberg's touching and affectionate blog page portrait of Matthews, whom he regards as an old friend.  One can't take Matthews too seriously, but then is is located in the prime news hour of 7 to 8, which Olbermann isn't.  MSNBC still has quite a way to go in order to be THE place for politics.  But networks can do (and indeed do) a lot worse.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by HotWings (June 07, 2008 5:20 am ET)
         

      Mr. Foser, when you said "If MSNBC is really "leaning left," why does Chris Matthews keep saying African-Americans aren't "regular people"?, that looks to me like you are saying that people who lean right think that African-Americans aren't "regular people".  That's very interesting coming from you because you are usually one of the first people to label people like Bill O'Reilly as racists for their statements. 

      I would also like respond to your repeated attempts to convince people that MSNBC does not lean left.  Firstly, all of MSNBC's shows stack the deck with liberal guests: Morning Joe, David Shuster, Race to the White House, Chris Matthews, and Keith Olbermann.  In the chance MSNBC does have on a token conservative, it's usually a person like Pat Buchanan, who is anti-war and loves to bash Republicans.  Secondly, you posted a handful of examples you believe bolster your claims that MSNBC does not lean left.  I could post many more examples to show that MSNBC leans left.  From MSNBC referring to Republicans as "terrorists" to MSNBC referring to President Bush as a "monkey". 

      I have nothing against Media Matters.  Free speech is a wonderful thing.  Conservatives have News Busters.  Liberals have Media Matters.  But when I see the 1,000th post by Mr. Foser trying to convince people that MSNBC or the media in general do not lean left, a response needs to be given.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by HughG (June 07, 2008 8:10 am ET)
           

        Mr. Foser, when you said "If MSNBC is really "leaning left," why does Chris Matthews keep saying African-Americans aren't "regular people"?, that looks to me like you are saying that people who lean right think that African-Americans aren't "regular people".  That's very interesting coming from you because you are usually one of the first people to label people like Bill O'Reilly as racists for their statements. 

        I read this several times, and it still doesn't make sense to me.
        For one thing, racism is conservative. Conservatives have always been the ones who opposed better treatment of minorities, be it abolition of slavery, suffrage and equal opportunities for women, or the passage of the Civil Rights Bill and the Voting Rights Act. For another thing, labeling O'Reilly , a right-winger, as a racist (if Foser actually has done so--throughout your post, you provide no links or sources to back up what you assert) is not only consistent with the concept that some conservatives are racist--it's evidence.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by BottleBlonde (June 07, 2008 12:08 pm ET)
           

        Conservatives have News Busters.  Liberals have Media Matters.  Hot Wings

        The two organizations are not equivalent. News Busters makes false charges based upon their biases. They don't fairly evaluate items like Media Matters does. They allege bias.

        Media Matters, on the other hand, never alleges bias. They identify conservative misinformation, and allow the reader to make judgments about what bias that might show. They document how the information being dissseminated furthers the conservative agenda. Newsbusters, on the other hand, simply smears the left with whatever is at hand.

        Apples and bookcases. Why am I not surprised that you don't understand the significant differences between the two groups?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by draftedin68 (June 07, 2008 2:46 pm ET)
             

          B B,

          Oh, he certainly does "understand" - but he doesn't get his $.50/post Troll Fee if he doesn't barf up an RNC talking point or two.

           

          Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (June 08, 2008 11:13 pm ET)
           

        you are usually one of the first people to label people like Bill O'Reilly as racists for their statements.-hotwings

        Please provide a good example and a link.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 09, 2008 2:17 am ET)
           

         ...Mr. Foser trying to convince people that MSNBC or the media in general do not lean left, a response needs to be given.- HotWings

        I can't wait. Is somebody credible  going to do that?

        Report Abuse
    • Author by albert802 (June 07, 2008 7:38 am ET)
         

      MSNBC leans to the left? Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hardly, there's only one left leaning news program on that cable network and that's Olbermann's "Countdown."  Thank God for Olbermann!!  I'm a lefty and his program is the only one I take in on MSNBC on a daily basis; sometimes twice a day for friggin therapy.  He reports the truth and does so in a unique style. Thank God for Olbermann!!  

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Sueelldd (June 07, 2008 8:18 am ET)
         
      What an outstanding piece. Posters like myself and others have been very critical of MSNBC, some on here take offense. MSNBC to me is the worst, because they have been given chances to change and they do not. If anything they get worse.  Great job MMFA, keep the pressure on MSNBC. The most unprofessional news outlet on cable today. 
      Report Abuse
      • Author by August Heat (June 07, 2008 9:53 pm ET)
           

        Are you  blind and deaf, or does your t.v. not pick up Fox.  I mean I'm no NBC apologist, but lets be real here, Fox Noise does not represent anything fair or balanced.  Matter of fact, Fox is what's wrong with this country. Division is their agenda.  Get a republican in the White House at all cost.  Defame fellow Americans if their political affiliation isn't your own.  Make anyone who disagrees with this bogus war, out to be a traitor to the red, white and blue.  What a joke.  MSNBC is no where near as toxic as Fix News.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 2:39 am ET)
             
          FOX is in a league by itself, i look at it as Newsmax. I do not even mention it because I fail to see it as being mainstream. MSNBC is mainstream as is CNN. Being critical of MSNBC no where means I am supporting FOX. 
          Report Abuse
          • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 11:52 am ET)
               

            FOX is in a league by itself, i look at it as Newsmax. I do not even mention it because I fail to see it as being mainstream. MSNBC is mainstream as is CNN. Being critical of MSNBC no where means I am supporting FOX. 

             

            This is a ridiculous comment in response to another poster. What you said was "MSNBC. The most unprofessional news outlet on cable today." That's what you said. The other poster asked if somehow you had mistakenly forgotten to take Fox News into account. The biggest news outlet on cable today? That's Fox News.

            For the 77th consecutive month, FNC finished first in total day and prime time ratings during May. FNC was the sixth highest rated cable network on all of basic cable during prime time for the month (CNN and MSNBC finished 19th and 26th) and the seventh rated network in total day (CNN and MSNBC were 19th and 27th).

            FNC also had 11 out of the top 13 programs in cable during the month in Total Viewers. The O'Reilly Factor was the #1 program in cable news for the 90th consecutive month.

            So we have to use your funky definition of which is "mainstream" in order to criticize Fox News? Because you don' t think Fox News is mainstream, you feel free to say "MSNBC. The most unprofessional news outlet on cable today" which totally ignores Fox News and the fact that they're the top rated news outlet on cable today? Really? And you want people to believe that you don't have an irrational hatred of all things MSNBC? Get real.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (June 07, 2008 10:16 pm ET)
           

        Yes, it is a good article Sueld. But what you fail to realize again and again and again is that MMFA has articles critical of MSNBC here all the time. That in and of itself is NOT a problem for anybody here. It is the fact that you surreptitiously bring up Keith Olberman in an unwarranted fashion in every thread about MSNBC. For what purpose, we don't know. That is why people get irritated with you.

        The fact that you don't understand that or feign not to understand is disturbing at best and dishonest and surreptitious at worst.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (June 07, 2008 10:22 pm ET)
             
          And as bad as MSNBC is, it isn't as bad as Fox. You do have something personally (or professionally) against MSNCB in general and KO in particular and you should be honest about your intentions. 
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 2:41 am ET)
               
            I do? I have been supportive of Olbermann the past few months, his show has impressed me more. Obviously you do not read my posts.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 11:41 am ET)
                 

              Except as I pointed out on another thread, you now are apparently using one of your alter egos, Bobthep, to attack Keith Olbermann.

              The only reason you get attacked when you 'attack' MSNBC, as Julia said, is because of how you have repeatedly unfairly gone after Keith Olbermann in the past. For you to say that since you didn't do it today, you can't understand why people attack you over it is disingenuous at best.

              If you agree to stop doing so, then people will cut you some slack eventually, but you cannot deny (if you are in touch with reality) that you have a reputation to live down. But you're not even being honest currently about having stopped attacking Keith Olbermann. Just the other day on a posting about Andrea Mitchell, your alter ego Bobthep brought up Keith Olbermann for no good reason. All of your screen names need to stop doing it before you get credit for stopping.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 12:11 pm ET)
                   

                Supportive of Keith Olbermann in the last few months, huh? Like this? With supporters like you, who needs enemies?

                Keith is a disgrace and a disgusting person.

                 

                • - SueEld / Friday April 18, 2008 4:22:03 PM EDT

                It is fine though for Olbermann to lie about Senator Clinton.

                How wrong MMFA is to promote this pile of S*it.

                 

                • - BobtheP / Friday March 14, 2008 2:58:01 PM EDT

                The man is such scum there is nothing else to say about Olbermann, Why he is treated like Jesus on this site is beyond my knowledge.

                • - BobtheP / Friday March 14, 2008 3:02:33 PM EDT

                Olbermann must have some secret deal with MMFA. To spew that type of conservative misinformation and for it not to be rebutted for 2 days now is chilling.

                • - SueEld / Friday March 14, 2008 3:08:43 PM EDT

                It is disturbing, but puts validity in what I have been saying for almost a year. (that KO and MMFA have a pact and that KO is disgusting)

                • - SueEld / Friday March 14, 2008 3:24:12 PM EDT

                Well they have attempted to smear and destroy Oreilly with Olbermanns help, he has segment after segment on his show about what a horrible person OReilly is , what a liar he is and why does he still have a job. It is really clear now and shocking. 

                • - SueEld / Friday March 14, 2008 3:12:20 PM EDT

                 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 12:16 pm ET)
                     

                  Because I have seen how dishonest posters can be, I expect the next attack from you will be to say that I am smearing you.

                  If copying your own words is smearing, then Bill O'Reilly's claim that Media Matters is a smear site are true.

                  What BillO says is not true. Copying someone's words is not smearing. It's calling you to account for what you've said in the past. You're trying to claim that you should be cut some slack because you have not been attacking Keith in the last few months. You did less than 2 months ago, so that's not true. You did for month after month after month, so much so that every regular poster knows of your behavior. It's not fair of you to tell Julia that she's out of line because she remembers your past behavior. We all do.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 12:47 pm ET)
                       
                    No you are not smearing me, you have a right to your opinion.  I feel FOX and MSNBC and CNN have gone down the wrong path, you want to focus on me. That is your choice.  I think what Matthews did to Senator Clinton was the worst of all the media outlets, you may feel different, that is ok. This is America we have different views. Yours are very good and well thought, I respect them.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:11 pm ET)
                         

                      Sueeld

                      My advice would be to ignore Bottleblonde also known as Sue/Ellie/Notthatgeorge. That sockpuppet has been around for a few years, telling others how horrible they are . Sue/Ellie is a vile poster and the latest now known as Bottleblonde has not disapointed us. Reading her statements , it appears she works at MSNBC. Maybe she can explain why her network allowed Imus to call Hillary Clinton Satan for 10 years. 

                      Bottleblonde no, Sue/Ellie/notthatgeorge yes.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:14 pm ET)
                           

                        Here is an example of Bottleblonde and her old name last year Notthatgeorge and her defense of MSNBC

                        If you really had run out of time, yes it would work.

                        That's not what happens though. If someone were to look at the time stamps, you still comment, but fail to reply when confronted with the admission that you were full of crap previously or that your mistaken interpretation of someone else's comments, once corrected, deserves a new, revised reply.

                        If you didn't have a history of doing this, when you did it occasionally, it would not be an issue. You do it all the time. Olbermann does not do it all the time, and he does not have a pattern established of allowing conservative misinformation to go unchallenged.

                        So yes, if you hadn't already established a pattern, then it would 100% excusable to not reply. You have clearly established that pattern, and so you don't get a pass.

                        It's fair, and not biased. I realize you don't understand fair and unbiased.

                         

                         

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 7:26 pm ET)
                             

                          Do you think you're fooling anyone?

                          I am not a sockpuppet. Never was. So I remind you of someone else. Tough. Attack what I say today, if you can. But you can't. I provided evidence that Sueeld was not being honest. You provided evidence that you're here to protect Sueeld by using totally irrelevant information to distract us from her dishonesty.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 7:40 pm ET)
                               
                            Ok Notthatgeorge, whatever you say. Your history proves otherwise.
                            Report Abuse
                    • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 7:18 pm ET)
                         

                      I understand you don't like me focusing on your dishonesty, but as Solon used to say, you don't get to control me.

                      You said that you had not been after Olbermann in months, and so Julia was out of line for suggesting that your comments were suspect. I was defending JuliaJayne's comments. She was right, and when I did a search, I found that you were not telling the truth when you said you had not been attacking Olbermann for months.

                      Everyone sees this behavior in you. I'll let the fair-minded be the judge of who's being honest here and who's twisting reality.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by BottleBlonde (June 08, 2008 7:22 pm ET)
                           

                        Oh, and I forgot.

                        It's not my opinion that you're being dishonest. If it were only my opinion, that would be smearing - as I explained above.

                        I documented your dishonesty. That makes it a fact. You said you hadn't attacked Keith in months. I showed numerous examples of it with your screen name and your surrogate screen names in the past 3 months.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 7:42 pm ET)
                             
                          And Ellie, we can go back and start posting all of the posts you have made with your other sockpuppet names. You fool no one, you are here to disrupt. By focusing on Sueeld , instead of the issue , you prove again that you are as vile as you were when you were Ellie717.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by BottleBlonde (June 09, 2008 4:42 pm ET)
                               

                            This is hilarious.

                            It's the three of you often echoing each other's points and cheering each other on, and you want to try to compare that to the false charges you make that I've been here before? I copy posts by Sueeld to use to debunk her points and you think it's equivalent to compare posts I am making with posts I never made with a different screen name?

                            Hilarious.

                            Julia's not me. I'm not her. I'm not any of the other previous posters that you seem to think I am.

                            You aren't fooling anyone.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by JLyons (June 09, 2008 4:48 pm ET)
                                 
                              Your the only one folling yourself notthatgeorge. Or is it nomobush?  or Ellie717?
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 7:50 pm ET)
                             

                          Ellie

                          Do you have proof Sue is Bob?  IP Address?  Otherwise that is a smear.  Can you discuss issues without getting personal with other posters? Sueeld has not once on this thread been off base, you are off base.   But that is what we have come to expect from you and your previous names.  You accusing Sueeld of being someone else is like George Bush accusing someone else of lying.

                          Get proof that Sueeld is Bob, track her IP address. 

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Sueelldd (June 09, 2008 9:00 am ET)
                               
                            JLyons, Thank you I do not know what the problem is with Bottleblonde. I for one have been supportive against the attacks leveled among others by you on her that she is someone else. Is it possible we can just post on topics and stop the personal games? 
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by JLyons (June 09, 2008 2:08 pm ET)
                                 

                              The problem is Bottleblonde was at one time Ellie717, notthatgeorge and the famous Sue. I know I am missing another name or two.  She disrupts the boards and goes after long time posters like yourself because she has issues with in particular anyone being critical of MSNBC. 

                              She also has done to you and others claim they have multiple names, the ironic thing is she is the master at that game.

                              You are acting classy, I bow my head to you.

                               

                              Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 2:40 am ET)
             

          Julia

          Keith Olbermann is not the problem, it is Matthews, David Schuster and his Pimp remark, and the history if MSNBC ie hiring Savage and allowing Imus to spew his racial hate.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:23 pm ET)
               
            Exactly Sueeld.  The MSNBC apologists should attempt to apologize for allowing a man to say racist hate for 10 years  (imus).  I guess that was ok at MSNBC to them.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 3:46 pm ET)
                 

              You two are full of crap. I have never defended Imus and not many here do. You take liberties with the truth. MSNBC is here all the time. I don't see people defending them unless you count a few of the cons.

              Don't bring up KO when he ain't the subject. Don't say MMFA smears anyone when they print transcripts and provide audio/video. Don't project stuff on people that isn't true and get off of your Ellie kick. It's old, worn out schtick and it makes you look pathetic. Have a nice day. :-/ 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:52 pm ET)
                   

                Ellie

                You come on here and preach to Sue about her past comments on KO when today she did not even mention KO. Also your past as Ellie and Notthatgeorge and Sue can not escape you.  Stop the games lady.  You seem to love MSNBC, if anyone even is critical of it you start screaming about FOX. MSNBC is not as bad as FOX, but they have had a history of Imus and Savage that makes them suspect in my mind.  Racist talk is as bad as the FOX conservative misinformation and lies, you spend your time going after Sue becuase she questions MSNBC, instead of discussing the issues of this thread.

                Get real Ellie. Or Notthatgeorge or Sue.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:54 pm ET)
                     

                  And yes Julia I called you Ellie and the reason?

                  Because you and Ellie/notthageorge seem to appear together.

                  If you are going to call Sue names and attack her and others like you did on Memorial Day than you get what you deserve.

                  You are right KO is not the issue , and I never saw him discussed here today until you and Ellie brought him up.

                  You are pathetic, and your act is old.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 8:53 pm ET)
                       
                    Now, get that IP address if you are going to "smear" me by calling me somebody that pre dates me on this forum. Ha! ;-0)
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 9:39 pm ET)
                         
                      Well I figure if Ellie can do it and you can do it , I guess it is open season for Smears. 
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by juliajayne (June 09, 2008 12:11 am ET)
                           
                        No worries. I was just pointing out your rank hypocrisy, but I forgot you take everything literally. Carry on, sister friend.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Sueelldd (June 09, 2008 8:59 am ET)
                             
                          I for one am staying out of hte cat fight. It is amazing that Bottleblonde and yourself had to bring up KO when I said nothing about him . I thought this was a very well written piece from MMFA.  Yet some on here wanted to make the post about me.  I never realized I was that important. I am not here to play games, I am here to post. 
                          Report Abuse
                • Author by BottleBlonde (June 09, 2008 4:48 pm ET)
                     

                  Here's what Sueeld said that caused Keith Olbermann to get brought up.

                  Posters like myself and others have been very critical of MSNBC, some on here take offense. MSNBC to me is the worst, because they have been given chances to change and they do not. If anything they get worse.  Great job MMFA, keep the pressure on MSNBC. The most unprofessional news outlet on cable today. 

                  She claimed that some have taken offense to what she's said about MSNBC when she's been critical of MSNBC. But that's not true. People have been critical of her because of her obsession with Keith Olbermann. For you to claim that JuliaJayne unfairly brought up KO is hilarious to the nth degree.  Julia debunked what Sueeld claimed with facts. The facts related to KO.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by JLyons (June 09, 2008 4:49 pm ET)
                       
                    Nomobush, Sueeld mentioned Keith Yesterday?
                    Do you have that ?  Can you provide a link?
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 3:55 pm ET)
                   

                Oh and since KO is included in this thread, I stopped watching him when he started the Hillary bashing. It WAS disgraceful and I've said many times I would do the same if Obama got the same treatment. We'll see what happens in the future now that the nominees are in place. But I do just as well not watching any of this garbage. It's bad for the brain. I don't need some eejit on TV telling me what I need to think.

                And Jlyons, if are angry about the lack of AAs on MSNBC, then petition them. We don't make programming decisions at this forum.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 3:57 pm ET)
                     

                  Note to JJ. Don't engage brick walls.

                   

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:58 pm ET)
                     

                  Yes Julia, thanks for minimizing racial discussion in America.

                  Do you work at Morning Joe?  You really love the network it seems. You and your alter ego Bottleblonde/Ellie

                   

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 4:00 pm ET)
                       
                    Somebody's in a bad mood again. Oh well. :-0)
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 4:01 pm ET)
                         
                      Somebody is just tired of the games and double standards other posters have especially in how they treat posters they do not like.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 4:00 pm ET)
                     

                  Oh and since KO is included in this thread, I stopped watching him when he started the Hillary bashing. It WAS disgraceful and I've said many times I would do the same if Obama got the same treatment. We'll see what happens in the future now that the nominees are in place. But I do just as well not watching any of this garbage. It's bad for the brain. I don't need some eejit on TV telling me what I need to think

                  You brought up KO again not Sueeld. Like it or not KO was allowed to have an opinion on Hillary. 

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 4:04 pm ET)
                       
                    Who said he wasn't allowed to have an opinion? Projecting again. Like I said, somebody's in a bad mood. And when there's a thread about AAs on MSNBC then by all means we'll have a discussion. Nobody is minimizing it because it hasn't even been brought up. That's the second time you've allowed your hubris and anger to be projected on someone who did nothing to "minimize" anything like what you've asserted.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 4:06 pm ET)
                         
                      I brought up race because the thread discussed Imus, google what happened.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 4:09 pm ET)
                           
                        If MSNBC is really "leaning left," why does Chris Matthews keep saying African-Americans aren't "regular people"?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by juliajayne (June 08, 2008 4:16 pm ET)
                             
                          So discuss it and bring up salient points. That was a small part of a much larger article and it has nothing to do with AAs being on MSNBC. That is what your beef is, right? Whatever, I'm out. You are not behaving in a rational manner today.
                          Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (June 07, 2008 8:33 am ET)
         

      Wow...... MMFA is as critical to Olbermann as they are to Matthews and all the others on MSNBC!

      You mean.... MMFA is being fair and balanced in its analysis of coverage of Hillary..... 

      Something tells me that there are a few in here who may ignore that revelation..... since this is appearantly where Olbermann and his producers get his stories, or so I have read from a couple posters in here in the past.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by franky (June 07, 2008 10:46 am ET)
         

      In contrast to the cable channel's treatment of Barack Obama, MSNBC's Mike Barnicle praises McCain as someone who "absolutely comes off as" an "Irish Catholic working-class hero.””

      I get the impression that there are those who think he’s “Irish” or who know better but perhaps wish to either harm or help McCain by so describing him.  I’m pretty sure they understand he’s not Catholic but think that maybe he’s like Ronald Reagan (half Irish by ancestry—4th generation) who was not Catholic either but who in fact did have significant Irish ancestry and whose father was Catholic.  It’s also doubtful that any of McCain’s ancestors were Catholic going by the typical historical American marriage patterns in the South.

      It’s a common mistake to overvalue a persons' last name in trying to guess bloodlines in America.  This is particularly faulty reasoning when evaluating someone whose American ancestry stretches back well before this country was even formed.   Most of America’s early immigrants were English as were most of McCain’s ancestors by the sound of the names in this eleven generation genealogy.

      It is well to bear in mind that many Americans who have some Irish ancestry are “Irish” in the legal sense in that they had Irish-born ancestors.  In many cases those ancestors were ‘planters’ placed into then Celtic Ireland by the British Crown   They were commonly of English-Scottish stock (previously planted English into the lowlands of Celtic Scotland).  Culturally the Irish of Celtic origins were looked down upon by them, and would not have associated with them in Ireland or here. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jeter2 (June 07, 2008 10:56 pm ET)
         

      I would call MSNBC more Obama-leaning rather than Left-leaning... or maybe it just appears that way because of their sometimes over the top Hillary bashing.

      Now that it's Obama vs McCain I'll be interested to see how their coverage of the two candidates stacks up.

      Wouldn't it be nice if they were treated equally?

      Or is that too much to ask of the media?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Sueelldd (June 08, 2008 2:42 am ET)
           
        Jeter, McCain has CNN and FAUX and ABC and CBS so one network will not make a major difference.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by mybrotherskeeper (June 07, 2008 11:04 pm ET)
         

      Nice job, Mr. Foser. Although you left out one of my favorites from Chris Matthews. When John McCain responded sharply to Barack Obama's criticism from the Senate floor of McCain's failure to vote in favor of a Jim Webb's new GI Bill, Matthews suggested that a speechwriter ("Mark Salter?") and not McCain himself was responsible for the very direct and personal attack on Obama. Sure, isn't that just the time when a candidate will employ a speechwriter, when he is personally outraged? "Straight talk" McCain using a speechwriter to deliver a personal attack? Why would Matthews suggest such a thing? It boggles the mind. Unless ... you don't suppose Matthews was trying  to suggest that McCain was just too nice a guy to have been responsible for such a sharp response, do you? Even though Matthews must know, as everyone in Washington, DC surely does, that McCain has something of a reputation for being, at times, something of a hothead. Maybe Matthews was kidding. But he did not look like he was kidding. Very strange. (Of course, Matthews is entitled to his opinion.)

      I think Barack Obama has the right idea about these very silly political talkfests. His policy is to watch a sports channel instead. But not MMFA, of course. You watch so we don't have to. (To coin a phrase.)

       That said, I would very highly recommend, if at all possible, catching this weekend the "Night Talk" (on Bloomberg) interview of Truthdig's Robert Scheer. I have not had so much enjoyment watching a TV interview in a very long time. What a pleasure to see such a sensible, well-grounded truthteller. Mr. Scheer is pleasant, genuine, good-humored, knowledgeable and self-possessed. And his interviewer? No comment.

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    • Author by JLyons (June 08, 2008 3:09 pm ET)
         
      This network had the ultimate opportunity to make a change after the Imus incident.  They did not, they replaced Imus with Joe Scarborough a phony Republican congressman .  Shame on MSNBC and GE .  There are no African American hosts at MSNBC, that is extremely shameful.  They did not learn from Imus as we had Tucker Carlson bash gays, and the anti Hillary garbage.  Should we go back to 2003 with the hiring of Savage?
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