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Eric Boehlert
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Reporters whine about Obama; ignore McCain attacks on the press

July 29, 2008 1:01 pm ET

The Obama campaign hurt Adam Nagourney's feelings.

The New York Times' political reporter recently claimed to have felt the campaign's sting after he wrote a front-page piece on July 16, detailing recent polling that suggested the presidential candidacy of Sen. Barack Obama had not dramatically altered views about race in America.

In a New Republic article about the campaign's pushback against his July 16 piece, Nagourney said that the night the story was first posted online he received a terse email from an Obama rep who raised questions about the story. Nagourney responded to the email and thought that the matter had been settled. The next morning he was surprised to see that the Obama camp had released a lengthy, eight-point critique of his article. (The Obama team was not alone; the premise of the Times piece was widely criticized.)

Nagourney "really flipped out" when he saw the Obama release. "They attacked me like I'm a political opponent," the aggrieved reporter told The New Republic, which used the anecdote to kick off a rather breathless analysis of what the magazine claimed was Obama's increasingly rocky relationship with the press.

Headlined, "End of the Affair: Barack Obama and the press break up," the New Republic piece leaned heavily on the notion that reporters were angry with the Democratic candidate and ready to revolt; that Obama's press aides were "alienating" the media by providing "little to no access," being "total tightwads with information," and acting in an arrogant fashion.

And worse, as Nagourney lamented, the campaign treated a reporter like a political opponent.

Oh, brother.

Do I even have to make the obvious point here that Republican politicians, and Republican candidates, have been attacking journalists and treating them like political opponents for years now? (Most notably President Bush, whose contempt for the press has been widely advertised for years.

But over the years, why didn't reporters complain publicly -- why didn't they flip out, as Nagourney called it -- about the naked GOP attacks? I didn't hear many industry-wide cries of consternation then. Instead, it's only considered to be newsworthy, and to be a point of deep media concern, when a Democrat is accused of slighting the press.

Indeed, the double standard on display couldn't be more obvious: When the GOP plays hardball with the press, or what's perceived to be hardball, journalists tough it out and consider it the cost of doing battle in the Beltway.

But when Democrats play hardball, or what's perceived to be hardball, reporters consider the jousting to be some sort of personal attack and rush to complain to colleagues how nasty the Dems are behaving.

Meaning, journalists expect Republicans to be mean and treat them like political opponents; to sit on information, cast aspersions, and make life difficult. That's a dog-bites-man story. By contrast, journalists feel personally wounded and get indignant if they think Democrats have dissed the press. And then journalists wonder how the slights might affect the candidate's campaign coverage. (That's a topic rarely broached when the GOP plays rough.)

And talk about thin-skinned. Nagourney even "conceded that he may have erred" in omitting polling information, according to Talking Points Memo. So why did he take the Obama camp's critique personally? Why did he flip out when the campaign's objections targeted the substance of the article, not the reporter who wrote it?

Meanwhile, as the press today ponders whether Obama is playing too tough with the press, it ignores the fact that the McCain campaign, despite the media mythology about the candidate's Fourth Estate love affair, has a long history of snubbing reporters and walling them off.

Note that the current double standard doesn't apply only to Obama. The New Republic mined this same territory before. Back during the Democratic primaries, the magazine published a hyperventilating piece detailing the over-controlling Hillary Clinton campaign's desire to "crush" the press and how, much like Obama today, it was endangering campaign coverage.

To highlight the vicious brand of hardball being practiced by the Clinton camp, the article led with what was supposedly its best anecdotal evidence: After the Times had published a friendly feature about Obama's love of basketball, a Clinton rep called the Times reporter to note his "annoyance" with the story. ... That was it. No threats. No profanity-laced tirades. No organized boycott. Just a person-to-person call to express annoyance. That's how The New Republic was sure the Clinton campaign was out to "crush" the media.

Even more comical was a later anecdote in the piece about how, when making small talk with The Washington Post's Anne E. Kornblut, Clinton noted that Kornblut had just returned to the campaign trail from vacation. The problem? The encounter, according to The New Republic, revealed Clinton's "ominous awareness of the reporter's movements."

Good grief. When Bush made buddy-buddy banter like that with reporters during the 2000 campaign, the press announced that it was proof that he was authentic and one of the guys. When McCain does the same today, reporters gush about all the personal attention he showers on them. But during the primaries when Clinton made time for small talk with a reporter, The New Republic practically portrayed the Democrat as a stalker.

To review: When Republican candidates turn on reporters, it's expected. When Democrats are accused of doing it, it's newsworthy. When Republican candidates schmooze the press, it shows their human touch. When Democrats schmooze, it reveals their dark side.

But back to Obama. Any discussion about his press relations and whether his campaign has walled out reporters takes place against the backdrop of the Beltway conventional wisdom that McCain enjoys an easygoing kinship with reporters because his free-wheeling, media-loving campaign boasts an "almost obsessive level of press access," as Ana Marie Cox stressed in a recent issue of Radar. (It's access that, as Media Matters for America's Jamison Foser pointed out, serves no real purpose unless reporters put it to use by asking McCain probing questions.)

"Covering McCain is a blast," wrote Cox. "He genuinely likes reporters: He'll joke with us about our drinking habits, playfully request our cell phones in the middle of a call and tell some unsuspecting editor or parent that the phone's owner has just been hauled off to rehab, and engage in gleefully sarcastic banter about both our colleagues and his."

According to Cox, it's because of that close camaraderie that reporters mostly turn away when McCain makes obvious campaign trail gaffes, like confusing Sunnis and Shiites.

In her piece, Cox quoted an unnamed television reporter who appeared star-struck after McCain engaged Cox and the TV reporter in some small talk in the lobby of a hotel: "I've been doing this for 12 years and no candidate ever does that -- just comes over to say hi."

In other words: He likes us, he really likes us!

Two points. First -- this is hardly an original observation -- the idea that journalists base their presidential campaign coverage around the personal likes and dislikes of candidates and their handlers is so obviously wrong that one would hope it didn't need to be highlighted. Yet clearly it does.

Second, this notion that McCain's campaign puts reporters up on a pedestal and that the candidate himself graciously responds to every press query is pure mythology.

For instance, in terms of access, The Wall Street Journal reported last week, "As the Arizona senator re-organizes his operation and tightens control of his message, the campaign has taken to cherry-picking who and what media outlets get the most face-time with the candidate."

The newspaper stressed how the "national press has had very limited access" to the candidate.

That's what The New Republic article accused the Obama camp of doing -- limiting access. Yet note there are no audible rumblings on the media landscape about a pending breakup between the press and McCain. Why? Because it's OK for Republicans to wave off the press; to treat reporters with disdain. But if a Democrat gets tagged for doing it, that's the basis for a messy divorce -- a "break up."

And make no mistake, McCain and his campaign regularly show contempt for the press.

For instance, last week, McCain publicly snubbed Wall Street Journal reporter Elizabeth Holmes. (She was the same reporter who wrote about the McCain campaign limiting access to journalists.) After calling on Holmes during a press avail on July 25, McCain, standing just few feet from her, promptly, and pointedly, ignored her and called on another reporter.

McCain's rebuke was just the latest in a long line of slights; slights that The New Republic has yet to detail in an article chronicling the press' reaction to being humiliated and ignored by the Republican hopeful:

  • The McCain camp last week released a fundraising video, dubbed "Obama Love," that openly questioned the press' professionalism for what Republicans claim is the soft coverage Obama has been receiving on the trail. The McCain video featured a myriad of TV clips featuring well-known journalists discussing Obama, mockingly set to the background music of Frankie Valli's "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You."
  • When McCain held a 10-minute press conference on July 9, national reporters were sitting 27 miles away on an airport tarmac, having been "ferried" to McCain's charter plane.
  • Mother Jones Washington bureau chief David Corn wrote this month that "it seem[s] that the McCain campaign has been screening questioners during the conference calls featuring campaign aides and top-level surrogates it mounts for reporters."
  • In March, McCain berated New York Times reporter Elisabeth Bumiller after she asked why, in 2004, the senator had denied ever talking to Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) about possibly being his vice presidential running mate.
  • In May, after Newsweek published an article the McCain camp didn't like, McCain aide Mark Salter reportedly threatened to throw the magazine's reporters off the campaign bus.
  • A senior McCain strategist in 2006 allegedly told an Arizona Republic reporter he was "off the bus" after writing an article the McCain camp didn't like.

And let's face it, McCain is simply picking up where the 2000 and 2004 Bush presidential campaigns left off in terms snubbing the press. And specifically, the Bush crowd loved to snub The New York Times.

At a September 2000 campaign rally, Bush spotted a veteran political reporter in the crowd and turned to running mate Dick Cheney to remark: "There's Adam Clymer, major league asshole from the New York Times." "Oh yeah, big time," replied Cheney, in an exchanged captured by an open microphone.

During the 2004 re-election campaign, the Republican National Committee accused the Times of fabricating "third-hand, made-up quotes" from Bush (the paper was guilty of "Kitty Kelley journalism," RNC chairman Ed Gillespie said). The Times had reported that during a closed-door meeting with funders, Bush claimed he would announce plans for "privatising of Social Security" after the election, which of course, is precisely what he did in 2005.

And don't forget that Times reporters were denied access to Cheney's campaign plane in 2004.

Did anyone at the Times fight back publicly? Did anyone get quoted in Beltway magazines about how the nasty Bush campaign attacks on reporters had really "flipped" them out? How they were surprised to be treated like "a political opponent"?

Not that I saw. But when the Obama campaign simply issues a statement raising factual doubts about a questionable Times campaign report, we're told it's an egregious act?

Please. The GOP has done far worse for years, and the press never made a peep.

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    • Author by IRONY 101 (July 29, 2008 1:22 pm ET)
         

      A related story about McCain from HuffPo...

      http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/little-left-of

      One increasingly gets the impression that John McCain is simply not a very nice man to be around...not that being nice is a qualification for the Presidency, but the phoniness of McCain and his campaign are beginning to make me ill.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by shoes89 (July 29, 2008 4:30 pm ET)
           

        MM makes a complete farce of their own mission when they try to forward the claim that the media actually supports McCain more than Barack Obama.

        Never have we had a media more in love with a candidate than with Barack Obama. In a recent poll, even Democrats, by a margin of 61 (Obama) to 14 (McCain), can see that the media wants Obama to win the election.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 5:02 pm ET)
             

          A FoxNews poll of Americans doesn't mean that it's true! Silly Shoes.

          Another recent scientific survey of recent news broadcasts showed that there have been more negative stories about Obama than about McCain. Reality has a liberal bias.

          http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-onthemedia27-2008jul27,0,2066363,full.story

          The Center for Media and Public Affairs at George Mason University, where researchers have tracked network news content for two decades, found that ABC, NBC and CBS were tougher on Obama than on Republican John McCain during the first six weeks of the general-election campaign.

          You read it right: tougher on the Democrat.

          During the evening news, the majority of statements from reporters and anchors on all three networks are neutral, the center found. And when network news people ventured opinions in recent weeks, 28% of the statements were positive for Obama and 72% negative.

          Network reporting also tilted against McCain, but far less dramatically, with 43% of the statements positive and 57% negative, according to the Washington-based media center.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 5:51 pm ET)
               
            Also, has anyone ever noticed that regardless of the topic raised by the first or second post, Shoes often attaches his off-topic and untrue complaints to those first few posts? He is such an attention-hog that he'll use any method to get noticed.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by vinny from indy (July 30, 2008 9:13 am ET)
                 

              You are correct about Silly Shoes. All of the right wing "operatives" that are routine posters here have the same playbook when it comes to the comments. They reply to the first comment to get on the front page and they try to derail the discussion with some irrelevant or wildly inane segway. Other posters, like Tommy, join in an attempt to make the first page of comments nothing but lies, BS and distraction. These jerk-offs are about as subtle as sledge hammer.

              The comments section of MMFA desperately needs an "ignore" function or a summary thread structure so that the front page real estate is not continually filled with the mindless, ignorant rantings of idiots like Tommy and Silly Shoes.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 30, 2008 2:40 pm ET)
                   

                I will give Tommy SOME credit: at least he sticks around in the thread after he posts and SOME of his posts are worthy of consideration. Overall, he is all right. BTW, I DID say SOME... key point to remember. :)

                Shoes, on the other hand... just shoots and runs away... like a coward... like a troll who just wants to stir the pot with mindless rehashing of debunked AM radio garbage. Like an idiot who can only be trusted to post and then never answer for it.

                Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (July 30, 2008 12:55 am ET)
           

        "Covering McCain is a blast," wrote Cox. "He genuinely likes reporters: He'll joke with us about our drinking habits, playfully request our cell phones in the middle of a call and tell some unsuspecting editor or parent that the phone's owner has just been hauled off to rehab, and engage in gleefully sarcastic banter about both our colleagues and his."

        Funny funny stuff! Passive-aggressives are so much fun! 

         

        Report Abuse
    • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:25 pm ET)
         

      Considering Mr. Boehlert's evidence in suggesting that reporters and the press' feelings get hurt far more when dissed by Democrats than Republicans, the obvious conclusion that one comes away with is the press feels irritated that the party they feel more kinship with, the one they treat friendlier, the one they are nicer to, the Democrats, have no business dissing them. 

      It's like biting the hand that feeds you, I guess.

      Nice work Eric.... 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 1:37 pm ET)
           
        So when a member of the media writes a flawed article, the rest of the media that feels such a kinship with Democrats criticizes Obama for pointing it out?  Why wouldn't they ignore it or pile on Nagourney themselves?  It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:41 pm ET)
             

          "To review: When Republican candidates turn on reporters, it's expected. When Democrats are accused of doing it, it's newsworthy"

          Boehlert's own words, not mine.  As I said, it's like biting the hand that feeds  you, I thought I said that already. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 1:49 pm ET)
               

            I know what you said, it still doesn't make much sense.  Boehlert's talking about a double standard, how does it suggest it's about "kinship"?

            Why would the media suddenly forget about their sense of "kinship" when some rogue member breaks ranks, as opposed to discrediting the rogue?  That's the scenario you're presenting here. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:55 pm ET)
                 
              It's quite simple, you (reporters) are far more likely to whine when someone you're friendly to (Democrats) whine about you. than when someone you treat with more hostility (Republicans) do it.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                   

                That didn't answer the question.  Why should reporters care about a rebuttal of one of their own, when that reporter has isolated himself from the group mentality?

                And do you really think the media has been "hostile" to McCain?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
                     
                  I've said it clearly three times, if you can't get it, or disagree with it, you will just have to live with it.  
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:11 pm ET)
                       
                    Why do you have an aversion to answering simple questions?
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 2:17 pm ET)
                       
                    You haven't answered the question I'm asking.  I can live with your opinion not making sense, I'm just demonstrating it.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 2:23 pm ET)
                         
                      I am not compelled to answer any question you feel like asking.  I stated my opinion in the very first post and it's very clear.  If you disagree with it, fine - although you are the one who hasn't demonstrated why you don't......you'd rather veer the discussion from the overriding point I was making so you don't have to address it.  Been there, done that.......
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:27 pm ET)
                           

                        "I am not compelled to answer any question you feel like asking."

                        SOP - Standard Operating Procedure - for those who either cannot answer the question outright or who can answer it but choose not to because doing so would make the individual look like an idiot by exposing their 'opinions' and/or 'policies' as a bunch of horse manure. Yep, got it.

                        This has been the SOP for the last 7 going on 8 years in this country. Thanks for confirming it once again.

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 2:41 pm ET)
                           

                        Then why are other people obligated to answer your questions?

                        You've stated your premise, but you haven't explained the psychology behind it.  A group with a collective loyalty will surely attack a dissenting member instead of abandoning the loyalty.  That should have been quite clear from my question, so I'm not sure how you claim you don't know what my disagreement is based on.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 2:59 pm ET)
                             

                          Please show me where I have ever said I obligate people to answer my questions?  That is absurd and you know it.  You use this patented technique every time you want to drag out some argument over an opinion you don't agree with - make no mistake, you are never obligated to answer my questions, so you're off the hook.

                          My opinion has been stated. 

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 3:01 pm ET)
                               
                            Tommy, did you just stomp your feet? I thought I heard a sound.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:04 pm ET)
                                 
                              No, but my monitor almost fell off my powerpuff girls desk.....5.8 mag earthquake here.   Shake, shake....
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 3:06 pm ET)
                                   
                                Oh, I thought that it was just the sounds of your mind closing. I didn't know you were experiencing an earthquake. I hope you and the colonel are okay.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:08 pm ET)
                                     
                                  I asked the Colonel a few minutes ago, he is probably fine as it hit in east LA and he is in the OC........all is fine where I am, thanks.
                                  Report Abuse
                          • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:04 pm ET)
                               

                            "Please show me where I have ever said I obligate people to answer my questions?"

                            Why are there so many posts from you that consist of "no answer", "still no answer", "another dodge", etc?  If people aren't obligated to answer your questions, why do you pursue them? 

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:07 pm ET)
                                 
                              Grab a dictionary and look up request, opinion and obligation.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:19 pm ET)
                                   

                                Oh, so when you ask a question repeatedly, that's just a simple and humble request, is that right?  No suggestion that someone must answer exactly as you like.

                                No surprise, you have nothing and didn't answer...

                                You are pathetic, and of course you won't answer.

                                Once again, no answer.

                                And again, you offer nothing except trying to deny you are advocating censorship.

                                What is your answer?

                                More whining and complaining, more "we should" - so be specific and tell me how you would improve the media mess we are in?

                                You can ask anything, you still offer no solutions except to say "Lauer should ask for backup", so he doesn't.  What is your solution, or is just more theory?

                                You can't answer either, I will wait for someone else less testy.

                                Come on Col, step out of your theoretical bubble and tell us what you would do to clean up our media.  Specifically please.

                                ...but then when you are asked how to implement your grievances, none of you can answer...

                                How do you enforce it?

                                You offer all these "media should" scenarios, then when asked for specifics you backpetal and offer nothing.

                                It's still more shoulda, coulda, woulda, of course we all wish this and that.....but what is the solution, what would you, or anyone here, propose to fix it?

                                You have not offered one concrete and workable solution, you just keep blustering.

                                If you won't answer, then stop responding.

                                Then stop coming on here with your empty rhetorical "wish fors", and then when asked for specifics on implementation, you won't answer.

                                All separate posts, all in one thread.  Remember?

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:30 pm ET)
                                     

                                  Your lawyerly evidentiary obsessive recall of my past posts in order to find some irrelevant victory is bizarre, to say the least. LOL....

                                  Whatever floats your boat......for once Clams was indeed right this past weekend, at least about you. 

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 3:35 pm ET)
                                       
                                    Tommy, I find it amazing that this idiot acts like some lawyer, derailing threads and preventing good solid debate. 
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:39 pm ET)
                                         
                                      So instead people should just be allowed to hold different standards for themselves than they hold for other people.  Your stance is noted.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 3:41 pm ET)
                                           
                                        No, my stance is stop engaging in tactics that derail threads . Since you love to talk about posters and their behavior, yours is noted and monumental.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:45 pm ET)
                                             
                                          Then what do you suggest when someone displays hypocrisy?  Nobody can say anything about it without "derailing the thread".  If you think there's some sanctity of threads which is more important than evaluating what people actually say, then you allow people to get away with absolutely anything.  Is that what you want?
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 3:46 pm ET)
                                               
                                            If you acted this way when it ALWAYS happens I would not have much an issue with it. It is your select outrage that makes me very suspect.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:59 pm ET)
                                                 

                                              I've argued with Clams, Governor, Pearlene, Roundhouse, I've defended Tommy, Jeter, Bruce, Chris, Steve.  I don't know how many others on either side, but neither list is complete.   I flag liberal trolls and conservative ones alike.

                                              Of course you can't possibly accept such a concept, because then what would anyone have to say against me when I point out someone's hypocrisy?  Not much, apparently. 

                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
                                                   
                                                You're regurgitating the same argument you had with Clams last week, I know those comments are closed, but come on.  If anybody is interested in his rebuttal to what you're saying, they can go read it there.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 7:44 pm ET)
                                                     
                                                  Considering he didn't get anywhere with his ulterior motive argument, people are more than welcome to reference that conversation.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                      • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:43 pm ET)
                                           
                                        Get over yourself, play lawyer with someone who is impressed with your "high standards".  Your refereeing opinion of everyone's credibility around here is ridiculous.  Who do you think you are?  Argue the topic at hand and accept people's disagreements, stop derailing threads with your Perry Mason-esque silliness.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:51 pm ET)
                                             
                                          I know, the nerve of someone to point out your hypocrisy.  Shameful, indeed!
                                          Report Abuse
                                    • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:40 pm ET)
                                         
                                      Hysterical.  It's like he is some hotshot attorney and this is his courtroom, every past post ever recorded here, at least mine, are at his fingertips so he can discredit the witness with their past "testimony".  Obviously he flunked law school and is trying to make some personal amends here, I am glad I am not the only one to have noticed.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 3:42 pm ET)
                                           
                                        It has been witnessed for awhile, and he talks about having 2 sets of standards, he goes after people he does not like, yet allows some posters to spew some of the most vitriol garbage and dismisses it. Obviously he has some sort of an agenda.  My feeling is to disrupt.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:44 pm ET)
                                             
                                          Well said.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 3:46 pm ET)
                                               
                                            And I love how he says "I go after dishonesty and hypocrisy whereever and whenever I see it here"....or something like that.  It's such a crock of baloney.  He may fool some here, but not you and I.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 3:47 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              Exactly, you will never see him when Sue/Ellie717 has been exposed numerous times as a sockpuppet.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:54 pm ET)
                                                   
                                                How is that comparable?  I have no way of knowing that whatever poster being accused of being Sue is actually Sue.  Unless there's some behavior displayed in that person's posts that is unacceptable, what am I supposed to say?
                                                Report Abuse
                                              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 4:48 pm ET)
                                                   

                                                Exactly, you will never see him when Sue/Ellie717 has been exposed numerous times as a sockpuppet.

                                                I'm sorry but, Jesus Christ! ENOUGH with the Sue/Ellie crap! G E T  O V E R  I T!

                                                Report Abuse
                                            • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:48 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              It's pretty funny how you yourself cited the conflict between Clams and me, but then you suggest my behavior is one-sided.
                                              Report Abuse
                                            • Author by Handsome Pete (July 30, 2008 8:58 am ET)
                                                 

                                              And I love how he says "I go after dishonesty and hypocrisy whereever and whenever I see it here"....or something like that.  It's such a crock of baloney.  He may fool some here, but not you and I. - Tommy

                                               

                                              Oh Tommy, you can be such a petulant child sometimes.  You're just mad that Brabantio made a point that you hadn't thought of, and called you on your crap.  You would be a much better poster if you could admit you were worng more often.  Not that you're wrong all the time, or even most of the time, but when you are, you usually go to any length not to admit it.  Just grow up and realize you're far from perfect.

                                              Report Abuse
                                        • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:46 pm ET)
                                             
                                          Who have I "allowed" to spew anything of the sort?  Be specific, please.
                                          Report Abuse
                                        • Author by MHK (July 30, 2008 10:45 am ET)
                                             

                                          JLyons

                                          Project much?

                                           

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by Brabantio (July 30, 2008 11:29 am ET)
                                               
                                            I was thinking the same thing.  The accusation against me seems to be that I favor some people, yet a perfectly legitimate criticism of Tommy inspires her to leap to his defense.  As if "you're not totally objective, so you can't criticize my friend".
                                            Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 3:38 pm ET)
                                       

                                    The opinion of a hypocrites means so much to me.  I'm deeply hurt, really I am. 

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by anotheramerican (July 29, 2008 9:56 pm ET)
                                         

                                      Brabs and Tommy,

                                      Time to move on my friends. Comments about individual posters and their motivations are second and third rank discussions. In the end they mean nothing.  Nothing new is ever offered after about the third go-round, all it is from that point forward is a rehash. 

                                      You both provide interesting and thoughtful posts.. even if some are too long. :-)  

                                       

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by Brabantio (July 30, 2008 12:01 am ET)
                                           

                                        I'm not sure where I'm assigning motivation to anyone here.  As for talking about individual posters, the rules are the same for everyone.  Tommy's accused people of hypocrisy himself, of course.  And I wish I knew how many times the Sue/Ellie thing has been brought up by various posters.  That certainly qualifies as an attempt to referee credibility, as I believe the phrase was.  Personally, I don't think theorizing about reincarnated posters should be a substitute for evaluating what one says, but it's still part of the same general idea.

                                        Everyone should make efforts to keep others honest, consistent and accountable for their behavior.  That is key to reasoned discourse.  I have yet to see a compelling argument that any other consideration negates that sentiment.

                                        Thanks for the compliment!

                                        Report Abuse
                          • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 4:11 pm ET)
                               

                            Please show me where I have ever said I obligate people to answer my questions?  That is absurd and you know it.  You use this patented technique every time you want to drag out some argument over an opinion you don't agree with - make no mistake, you are never obligated to answer my questions, so you're off the hook.

                            My opinion has been stated. 

                             

                            • - tommy / Tuesday July 29, 2008 2:59:15 PM EDT

                             

                            Barbantio showed us multiple examples of you demanding an answer, and trying to force an answer, and trying to coerce an answer, and pressuring people to answer, and making them answer your questions (compelling them) before you'll continue the debate down another path.

                            In the thesaurus, several of the synonyms listed for obligate are the verbs I used above. Force. Coerce. Pressure. Compel.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 4:13 pm ET)
                                 
                              Sue, If you're that threatened and feel that intimated to answer me, or anyone else, on an anonymous website full of anonymous posters, then take it up with your psychiatrist, not me.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 4:15 pm ET)
                                   
                                Anonymous website?  No.
                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 4:23 pm ET)
                                   

                                If you feel so very threatened by a long-gone poster that you feel the need to smear her, then it is you who needs to seek therapy.

                                You were the one who denied that you obligate anyone else to answer your questions. Barbantio proved you wrong, and did so in a good way with links to your own comments. After he did that, you then acted like his very adequate refutation of your denial was a character flaw on his part! I went to a thesaurus online and found that the comments of yours that he provided us all to see did, in fact. document the fact that you try to 'obligate' people to answer your questions.

                                It's well known here that you will do your damnest to escape from answering questions. RabbitLover pointed that out early on. It's also well known that you regularly demand that others answer your questions.

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 4:25 pm ET)
                                     
                                  Thats the Sue temper from her previous sockpuppets Ellie717 nomobush, notthatgeorge and of course Sue.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 4:36 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Temper?

                                    Did you really say that what I did exhibited temper?

                                    What you did exhibited your temper. Totally derailing a thread by going after me mere minutes after you went after another poster for a much less egregious example of derailment was a great example of how out of control you are. Your temper got the best of you, and even though going after me was 100% derailment, you couldn't resist.

                                    That's an example of someone showing their temper!

                                    Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Brabantio (July 29, 2008 8:02 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Temper?

                                    "Tommy, I find it amazing that this idiot acts like some lawyer, derailing threads and preventing good solid debate."'

                                    Still waiting for examples of the double standard you're accusing me of.  And what's it supposed to be based on, by the way?  It can't be partisanship, because you're supposed to be a liberal, right?  I guess it must be based on behavior.

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 11:12 pm ET)
                                         

                                      Want examples of a double standard? Look at Jlyon's posts. She said that she fought against derailing comments, and then she attempted to blatantly derail a thread with vile and baseless comments about me.

                                      But before that she derailed the thread with the post she made attacking you.

                                      Tommy, I find it amazing that this idiot acts like some lawyer, derailing threads and preventing good solid debate. 

                                      • - JLyons / Tuesday July 29, 2008 3:35:22 PM EDT

                                      That's a example of a double standard. I know it's not exactly what you asked about! LOL

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 11:38 pm ET)
                                           

                                        Oh Sue, grow up.  We all, or at least most of us, have been guilty of derailing a thread or two during our tenure year.  So get off your high horse and stop acting like judge and jury, considering your checkered past you don't have a limb to stand on.  Actually, I suppose the real arbiter of determining out of bounds derailment is up to the moderators here.  When I pull out the "you're derailing the thread" card, I tend to do it tongue in cheek, as I have been scolded for it umpteen times, so I shrug and join in if interested, and ignore it if not. 

                                        At least most of us don't have to reincarnate ourselves to avoid exposure for past posting sins, like you do........so behave yourself.

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by Handsome Pete (July 30, 2008 8:53 am ET)
                                             
                                          Then maybe JLyons shouldn't be such a hypocrite and complain about derailing a thread shortly before derailing it.
                                          Report Abuse
                                        • Author by BottleBlonde (July 30, 2008 10:06 am ET)
                                             

                                          Oh Sue, grow up. We all, or at least most of us, have been guilty of derailing a thread or two during our tenure year. So get off your high horse and stop acting like judge and jury, considering your checkered past you don't have a limb to stand on. Actually, I suppose the real arbiter of determining out of bounds derailment is up to the moderators here. When I pull out the "you're derailing the thread" card, I tend to do it tongue in cheek, as I have been scolded for it umpteen times, so I shrug and join in if interested, and ignore it if not. At least most of us don't have to reincarnate ourselves to avoid exposure for past posting sins, like you do........so behave yourself. - tommy / Tuesday July 29, 2008 11:38:24 PM EDT

                                          I'm not Sue. Unlike you, I don't have to try to make it about you, the messenger, because I can adequately attack your message!

                                          I didn't complain about anyone derailing a thread. That was your buddy, Jlyon, who did that. I complained about the hypocrisy of a poster who complained about Barbantio derailing threads, when that wasn't really done, and then derailed the thread herself with an off topic vile and baseless attack on me!

                                          I can understand how you couldn't see the difference though! You don't seem to recognize your own hypocrisy, so it doesn't surprise me that you'd miss it in others also.

                                          If you'll note, the moderators, who are the final arbiters of what is off topic and what's not, removed almost all of Jlyon's complains, and left all of Barbantio's complaints stay.

                                          And I have no idea what you mean by me being judge and jury. I get to comment here, and you're not the boss of me as the famous song lyrics say. Barbantio was replying to your comments, and Jlyon went off on me personally. If you can't understand that it doesn't require a law degree to understand that her behavior was classic derailment, then you own that failure too. I am not criticizing 'derailment', but criticizing the hypocrisy of her derailing the thread - just thought I'd explain that since you hadn't been able to figure it out on your own apparently!

                                          Report Abuse
                                • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 4:30 pm ET)
                                     

                                  "I went to a thesaurus online and found that the comments of yours........"

                                  Really, the online thesaurus directly references my comments?  I had no idea.  Thanks Suzie.  If you want direct quotes attributable to me with you in mind, check out "One Flew Over the Cuckoos' Nest" 

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 4:40 pm ET)
                                       

                                    That's pretty weak. You had to take part of my sentence out of context to attempt to debunk what I said? Wait, I take that back. It's not pretty weak. It's really weak.

                                    The online thesaurus debunked your defense that you don't obligate people to answer your questions because the synonyms for obligate provided by that thesaurus fit your behavior and the comments you've made perfectly!

                                    Report Abuse
                                • Author by jeter2 (July 29, 2008 4:37 pm ET)
                                     

                                  Blondie aka Sue etc,

                                  You were just complaining about threads being derailed, yet here you are jumping into a derailed conversation that has nothing to do with you.

                                  I find that hilarious.

                                  P.S. I have never whined about threads going off topic, so I can jump in anywhere I'd like :-)

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 4:50 pm ET)
                                       

                                    No, I was not just complaining about threads being derailed. Ever.

                                    I was calling someone else who complained about threads being derailed a hypocrite.

                                    In addition, I said that one type of derailment was less valuable than another.

                                    I didn't ever say that I was complaining about either kind though.

                                    Sorry you missed it and felt the need to misrepresent what I actually have said. Anything to protect a buddy though I guess.

                                    Report Abuse
          • Author by Sueelldd (July 29, 2008 2:00 pm ET)
               
            Tommy I do see your point not sure if that is what Eric meant though.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by seeryer (July 29, 2008 10:06 pm ET)
               
            I think he is saying that Democrats running for president can't win with the press.  Look at how Gore and Kerry were treated.  Republicans have beaten the press down for so long that the press has to give them their say even when their say is horse shiite.  The fact is the press can't report the truth about the atrocity that is Republicanism.  The reason is because they think they can sell more papers by giving them a voice instead of calling a spade a spade.  I don't think that is a win for Dems.  In 2000 and 2004 the press killed the Dem nominee.  
            Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 1:44 pm ET)
             
          Of course it makes no sense. He's just trying to provoke a flame. He needs the attention.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:45 pm ET)
               
            Way to address the post JJ, it beats your recent blatherings around here, so that's something.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 1:49 pm ET)
                 

              Well, I can't argue that my posts are mostly blatherings so that bit of truth doesn't hurt :-0) I just come here because I'm horny and there's lots of guys.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:56 pm ET)
                   
                Touche'.......good one.
                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 5:11 pm ET)
                                                     

                                                  BB, I like you and your posts. Serious posts are great. And debating styles differ. I wouldn't categorize flirting as a debate style though. But I will say that humor in this forum is a great style of debate although some people don't like it. And I mention that because some people have complained of even that.

                                                  Now Jeter and are friends. We genuinely like each other and are, yes, attracted to each other. So it isn't a facade. But we don't take up much space here. At most we have 10-12 posts out of the thousands that are posted here each week.  It's pretty harmless imo.

                                                  What I find more harmful is the constant back and forth, word parsing, insult flinging, thread swelling that goes on here with usually Tommy and some others. I don't see much added value in that. But I'm sure others might disagree. And just for the record, I never thought you were in that category. Your posts are almost always very salient and well thought out. I can't say the same for mine :-0)

                                                  You have been attacked here unfairly imo. I don't care about this other crap Sue/Ellie. I don't know what it's about. But just let me go on record to say that you are one of the better posters. And Jeter and I are just having some fun and maybe it's entertaining a bit to those who know us.

                                                  Report Abuse
                                                          • Author by juliajayne (August 01, 2008 7:39 am ET)
                                                               

                                                            Tuesday 2 (Tuesday 2nd thread) and so on

                                                            That should have been T2. Of course you probably surmised that already.

                                                             

                                                            Report Abuse
      • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 1:43 pm ET)
           

        "...the party they feel more kinship with, the one they treat friendlier, the one they are nicer to, the Democrats..."

        What a bunch of hooey, Tommy. You've hit a new low with that one. Of course... the idiot MSM troops and the Sunday morning teevee talkers will gladly agree with your assessment but the reality is quite different.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 1:46 pm ET)
             
          No, I struck a nerve.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 1:57 pm ET)
               
            The only nerve you've struck is the one that doesn't take BS very well, that's all. :)
            Report Abuse
            • Author by jeter2 (July 29, 2008 2:19 pm ET)
                 

              Well then why do you think the media is allegedly kinder to Republican candidates?

              I gave my reasons [first page]... simply put: I think the media is nicer to those that are nice to them. Bush[the candidate] & McCain have a chummy relationship with the press. Obama allegedly is somewhat standoffish towards the media. Of course that shouldn't make a difference...but the media is made up of humans, I think ;-)

              Report Abuse
              • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 2:31 pm ET)
                   
                but the media is made up of humans, I think ;-)

                 

                • - jeter2 / Tuesday July 29, 2008 2:19:23 PM EDT

                I think you'd better rethink that assumption. They are pirahnas doing the bidding of their corporate masters. And they are nicer to rightwingers out of fear mostly. Although I hear that personally Bush and McBush are charming types, their tactics regarding the press should not be mistaken as anything close to charming.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:33 pm ET)
                     
                  And the 'charmers' are the people who will screw you over the worst in the end. Plenty of real-life examples of that.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
                   

                "...but the media is made up of humans, I think ;-)"

                ...who are, for the most part, dumb and, even worse, unable or unwilling to acknowledge that fact. 

                 

                Report Abuse
              • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:43 pm ET)
                   

                Yeah, here's a fine example of Bush's 'chumminess' at play...

                http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/bushcuss.asp

                Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (July 29, 2008 6:30 pm ET)
           
        More pathetic analysis from the weakest thinker on the board.

        Tommy's already ran to the "opinion" dodge, so there's no real need to address it substantively, but how about a thought experiment.

        You think that a politician will serve your interests very well. You want the politician to win. The politician publicly snubs you. Do you:

        a) lash out at the politician because you're so hurt and shocked, thus damaging your own interests, or

        b) keep quiet, because it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (July 30, 2008 1:00 am ET)
           

        the obvious conclusion that one comes away with is the press feels irritated that the party they feel more kinship with, the one they treat friendlier...

        Or that the victim is seen as more vulnerable, like the adopted step-child, the interloper, the ill-favored fellow employee, or, in other words, the typical way that Democrats have been treated for so long.

        The right-wing hate is contagious, and responsible for the double standard.

        Report Abuse
            • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 1:50 pm ET)
                 
              Bob, is there a sports section you could post?
              Report Abuse
    • Author by peebs755 (July 29, 2008 1:28 pm ET)
         
      For years I've been reading and hearing about the "Liberal Media", all the while seeing the glaring obviousness of its right winged leanings. I used to wonder what the hell does a conservative think tank do. To my shame, I see it now too late. So there's lots of catching up to do. MMFA is a very good start. Push back EVERY time. its the only way to make any head way in this fight. Ignore righties that say "who cares about that. Its such a small matter". Every little thing needs to be countered so we can start to get the truth out there. 
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 1:44 pm ET)
           

        I was really trying to think of a way to work this into the item, but I'll just say off-topic alert. this item at RealClearPolitics is amazing. The writer admonishing people not to blame the Knoxville church shootings on the right wing media mentality, making a plea for fairness , and not being able to resist, to even make it through his article without flaming against those dirty liberals.

        Also pretty funny, his citing of his own criticisms of rightys. Pretty brutal!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (July 29, 2008 1:57 pm ET)
             
          OK, that article makes no sense. Call for civility and then post a bunch of examples of liberals branding the right wing, wrap up by saying liberals don't stoop to the level of the right. Is that what I read?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
               
            It's pretty ridiculous. I read some of the comments at the Malkin site. Sounds like the tough guys are packing heat at church, and the shooter was a Libbrul in disguise (unemployed, food stamps). That's a quality audience Malkin has there.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (July 29, 2008 2:50 pm ET)
                 
              Hey Colonel, Off topic, but you OK?  Did you just feel the earthquake here in SoCal? 
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 3:51 pm ET)
                   
                No, Tommy, I was in the car going to lunch, didn't even feel it, but our Sushi guy told us it hit here pretty good. I had some really nice Spanish mackerel and some pretty good crab. How  much more off-topic can I go?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Old_Benjamin (July 29, 2008 5:54 pm ET)
                     

                  How  much more off-topic can I go? - col

                  Did you have a drink?  Dessert? 

                   

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 7:18 pm ET)
                       

                    Just iced tea to drink, Ol' Ben. Was offered ice cream by the owner's wife, but didn't think it was necessary.Did I mention the scallop hand roll? Delightful!

                    Did I mention I had an onion on my belt?

                    Report Abuse
        • Author by Governor (July 29, 2008 2:06 pm ET)
             
          Watershed, if you're around, what do you think?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by onionhead (July 29, 2008 2:43 pm ET)
             

          It seemed like after Columbine everyone jumped on Marilyn Manson.  Even though I would not blame Talk-Radio idiots and bigots at the pulpit for the shooting, I would have to say that there is certainly a better link between them and the shooter than there was between Manson and the two Columbine students (i don't think those kids even listened to Marilyn Manson).  So why the double-standard? 

          It is obvious that Rush and his manipulative ilk cater to those who fear black people and gays more than they do terrorists.  But it is not even as bad as the Shock Jock in The Fischer King who jokingly tells some caller to kill people in a restaurant (all those people died simply because the caller didn't understand sarcasm). 

           Through his life, bigots (maybe even abusers) probably helped pass on their hatred and made this man what he was, but he, and he alone, walked into the church and started pulling the trigger. 

          Unfortunately, this event won't make any of the haters on the airwaves re-think their incendiary rhetoric and its effect on "mentally unbalanced" people; why would it? It is how they make their money.  They have no shame whatsoever.

          Maybe next time they want to call liberals cowards maybe they will think about the church members that ran toward the gun man and stopped it from being a greater tragedy.  Unlike the a$$holes on talk radio, these people are heroes.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by snoopy (July 29, 2008 1:46 pm ET)
         

      OT, but if you haven't heard, the attack on the church this weekend was done by a right wing hater who blamed liberals for the reason he couldn't get a job. As evidenced, he is an avid listener of Hannity, O'Reilly and Savage.

      Well, today Squakin Maulkin tried to claim the guy was a christian hater only. But check the comments out, her loyal following are darned sure it was a liberal pretending to be a conservative christian so he could make conservative christians look bad. Here's just a sample:

      On July 28th, 2008 at 2:43 pm, atheling said:

      You know what I think? He didn’t hate liberals. He hated Christians. He wanted to leave the impression that he is a conservative who hates liberals, however, to discredit conservatives.

      Evil.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 29, 2008 1:51 pm ET)
           
        Snoopy, did you check out my link? It's a pretty strange take on the tragedy.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (July 29, 2008 1:53 pm ET)
             

          Just reading it now.

          Oh, and since we are OT, might as well point out that the right just made another Hitler comparison about Obama's speech in Berlin...

          Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne (July 29, 2008 3:25 pm ET)
               
            Snoopy, my pet, are you bucking to be the newest MMFA titpster. Btw, I'll let you be my huckleberry any day.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by eniobob2631 (July 29, 2008 1:56 pm ET)
           

        Hey Snoop:

        Iguess we will see the"I will be vindicated"performance before the day is over by Senator Stevens.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
           
        "On July 28th, 2008 at 2:43 pm, atheling said:

        You know what I think? He didn’t hate liberals. He hated Christians. He wanted to leave the impression that he is a conservative who hates liberals, however, to discredit conservatives."

        Rightwingers are simply deranged. They are hardwired to NEVER assume responsibility for anything, hence their loud pronouncements of 'responsibility' and 'values' is pure unadulterated BS.

        Gotta go back to reading more of Conservatives Without Conscience...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 2:00 pm ET)
         

      The McCain bias press is hard to ignore. 

      Can you imagine if Obama had made just one of the many many (take your pick), gaffes, Alzheimer, senior moments, challenges, that McCain has made? We'd never hear the end of it. There would be daily media questioning of whether Obama is fit to lead this country since he can't get the facts straight. Is Obama fit to be commander in chief since he doesn't even know where our enemies are geographically located. How trustworthy Obama is when he says something one day and denies it the next day, knowing there's video proof of what he originally said. On and on and on. 

      Confusing Sunni/Shia is a slip of the tongue, forgetting more than 3 times that Al Qaeda doesn't train in Iran, or not knowing that Iraq and Pakistan don't share a border means you didn't know the freaking facts to begin with! You're too busy trying to look the part that you're NOT qualified to play.

      And once again we have a lazy, unprofessional press (can you say Bush 2000/04) who will not report the truth!   

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Sueelldd (July 29, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
           

        And once again we have a lazy, unprofessional press (can you say Bush 2000/04) who will not report the truth!  

         Exactly and this press of 08 seems even more forgiving of Mccain and his gaffes than they ever were for Bush.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Goodfella57 (July 29, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
         

      Off topic alert:

      Is MMfA in violation of IRS rules for 501 (c) (3)?

      Here is a quote from the IRS Website:

      "Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office."

      Hmmm...Today there are 10 pro-Obama items and 8 anti-McCain items on the MMfA website. That's a typical day. Someone should look into this

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Sueelldd (July 29, 2008 2:04 pm ET)
           
        Good idea, why don't you call the IRS? I am sure they will be right on it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:18 pm ET)
             

          The Detestable One, aka His Dumbness, aka Mark Levin has been bringing up the IRS a lot when it comes to MM and I am still waiting for him to make that phone call...

          But like most Rightwing cowards, he won't do it. All talk and zero action.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by JLyons (July 29, 2008 2:21 pm ET)
               
            Mark Levin , now thats a real hater.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:37 pm ET)
                 
              Yes indeed. A hater... and a not-too-bright individual too. Funny how those two things tend to go well together.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (July 29, 2008 3:43 pm ET)
                 
              Mark Levin - a true hero to 'concern trolls' on blogs all over the world.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by RABBITLUVR (July 29, 2008 2:04 pm ET)
           
        Show us where... ANYWHERE... MM is 'pulling' for ANY candidate. Thanks.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 2:17 pm ET)
           

        The fascist thugs at MMfA are at it again. "Time to TAKE ACTION (i. e. CENSOR) someone we disagree with".

        Come on...Can't you see this is censorship? It's his OPINION for Christ's sake. Are you making the case that Savage is not allowed to have an opinion and discuss it on his radio show?  Why not just post on your little web site why you think his opinion is wrong? Fine...But what's with this "Take Action"? IT really makes you look like whiners. Just don't listen to him! 

        I like him - I find it entertaining. Why are you trying to take away my entertainment? Do I criticize you because you listen to NPR or Air America? No! I could care less what you listen to - Just stay the f*** out of my life!  

         

        • - Goodfella57 / Tuesday July 22, 2008 3:50:48 PM EDT
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (July 29, 2008 3:36 pm ET)
             
          Yes, Pearlene, but didn't you know that hypocrisy is the source of most trolls' powers of incoherence?  That's what makes them tick, it's like fuel for nonsense.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 4:55 pm ET)
               

            but didn't you know that hypocrisy is the source of most trolls' powers of incoherence? 

            LOL

            Kyle, I started to just post " It you don't like to site, just stop posting" "Stay the f*** outta my life!", but I couldn't stop laughing. 

            Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (July 29, 2008 4:32 pm ET)
         

      McCain's contempt for the press? Looking at the bulitt points above:

      Publicly snubbing Elizabeth Holmes? Making a reporter wait to ask a question? MMFA conveniently leaves out that McCain went back and let her ask the question.

      The McCain campaign questioning the press with it's own fundraising video?

      A mistake at one press conference in a long campaign where some reporters and McCain were at different spots.

       David Corn saying, "it seems" the campaign is screening questioners. No proof.

      Having a conversation with a reporter, Elisabeth Bumiller, who kept prying into a conversation McCain repeatedly said was private.

      Hearsay that a McCain aide reportedly threatened to throw some reporters off the bus.

      Another "allegedly" story that a reporter was "off the bus".

      Noting "hearsay", "allegedly", "seemed", and not being a reporter's patsy are evidence of McCain's anti-press outbursts?  Hahaha.

      If that is picking on the media, Boehlert only proves that leftist media indeed has thin skin!  

      Report Abuse
      • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 5:01 pm ET)
           

        Publicly snubbing Elizabeth Holmes? Making a reporter wait to ask a question? MMFA conveniently leaves out that McCain went back and let her ask the question.

        Kind of like you conveniently ignoring the expression on Lindsay Graham's face when McCain publicly snubbed Elizabeth Holmes, huh.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYJbFPYArM

        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 29, 2008 5:14 pm ET)
             

          Oh. So Lindsey Graham is the arbiter now?  I'm not saying that McCain didn't put the reporter in her place. That is indeed debatable However one reporter and one blanched look by Graham over the course of a campaign hardly makes for a strong case.  So even if it is stipulated that McCain was insensitive to the reporter in this instance, what else have you got? Not much.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 5:41 pm ET)
               

            Oh. So Lindsey Graham is the arbiter now?  I'm not saying that McCain didn't put the reporter in her place. That is indeed debatable However one reporter and one blanched look by Graham over the course of a campaign hardly makes for a strong case.  So even if it is stipulated that McCain was insensitive to the reporter in this instance, what else have you got? Not much.

            AA, you seem to think that publicly snubbing the reporter is OK because McCain went back to her later. A public temper tantrum is usually reserved for 2 year old, not someone one wanting to run the country. And Graham simply looked like some snot nosed kid laughing at McCain's bad manners.

            The McCain campaign questioning the press with it's own fundraising video?

            AA, I know in Republican land it's hard to see the truth but give it a try. If Obama had as many senior moments as McCain he would be ridiculed both day and night by MSM, conservative talk radio and Fox. There would be no end to the so called "analysis" of his mistakes. The fact that the press has ignored McCain's mistakes should make the McCain campaign grateful, but not them. They have the freaking nerve to make a video questioning the press of Obama. Even in la la Republican land you gotta see how far off base that is. 

            AA, like I said, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the butt!

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            • Author by anotheramerican (July 29, 2008 8:19 pm ET)
                 

              Pearlene,

              Oh I see. So you've been bitten eh?  One would almost think you sound bitter. :-) 

              Yeah McCain has his "senior" moments. No doubt about that. I think the fact that he is a senior might have something to do with it. Obama has his senior moments too. Remember his 58 State comment, (or was it 59? I forget.)  

              Being quoted 24/7 has it's disadvantages for both candidates.

              However I could give a rip if McCain or Obama got mad at a reporter and put that reporter in his/her place.  I find it refreshing to see someone break through the facade of pasted on smiles and acting real. The reporter always has the last word.  And so may you.   

               

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              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 29, 2008 10:31 pm ET)
                   

                Remember his 58 State comment, (or was it 59? I forget.)  

                Is THAT all you got? 

                This week, Sunday/Monday: No new taxes....Oh no, nothing is off the table regarding raising taxes....Oh no, that man McCain doesn't speak for the McCain campaign......

                This week, Tuesday: Little girl asks, "are you going to raise my taxes?".....NO!

                LOL

                And McCain should continue complaining about his lack of press coverage, after all wasn't it McCain who had a "days count" on Obama going to Iraq and Afghanistan? I'm sure since it's Tuesday, McCain's forgotten how well that worked for him. Maybe an aid can remind him to be careful what he wishes for, he just may get it.  

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              • Author by BottleBlonde (July 29, 2008 11:05 pm ET)
                   

                He was trying to say that he'd been to 47 states, and was fixing to go to the last of the 48 continental states. He misspoke and said 57 instead of 47.

                He knows how many states there are.

                So your big comeback was that he misspoke and said 57 instead of 47? And that's supposed to convince us that that Obama is sorely lacking in some character trait that will disqualify him from being President? He was thinking about how we have 50 states, and he'd been to 47 of them, and he combined those two thoughts and said he'd been to 57? Is that all you've got?

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                • Author by anotheramerican (July 30, 2008 1:21 pm ET)
                     

                  bBlonde,

                  I realize Obama knows there are 50 States. (At least I think he does.) My point is that both candidates sometimes make gaffes, not just McCain. 

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                  • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (July 30, 2008 2:27 pm ET)
                       

                    My point is that both candidates sometimes make gaffes, not just McCain. 

                    If Obama made as many "gaffes" as McCain he'd be dead and buried as a candidate by MSM and right wing radio/FOX. MSM and right wing radio/FOX excuse McCain's DAILY gaffes.

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              • Author by steeve (July 29, 2008 11:05 pm ET)
                   
                "The reporter always has the last word" -- how about that, good insight into the media from a conservative.

                Big media stooges have an overwhelmingly dominant position over a politician. To see one of them whine and snivel in the face of that fact is galling.

                If you're a greedy, amoral SOB who can't do anything except talk, why would you even go into politics? Life is so much easier as a pundit. You get to give expert opinions without knowing anything. You never have to pass a performance review. Your ratings are irrelevant.

                (Of course not all pundits are evil, but all evil people should be pundits, if they have any sense.)
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    • Author by alanrsnipes1372 (July 29, 2008 5:49 pm ET)
         
      I'm so sorry that Adam Nagourney has hurt feelings. I guess reporters have sensitive skins.
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    • Author by interestingobserver (July 29, 2008 7:47 pm ET)
         
      This piece seems to contradict earlier assertions that MMFA has made that McCain treats the press so well, which is why he garners so much favorable treatment.  I guess the classic case of trying to have it both ways, Media Matters? 
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      • Author by steeve (July 29, 2008 10:25 pm ET)
           
        Yeah, it's a puzzler. It seems that it's possible for McCain to court the press somewhere between 0 and 100% of the time.

        MMFA uses "both ways" as clubs to bash the media, not McCain. The media can avoid such bashing by shelving the fake outrage when Obama does less than McCain does, and by not swooning when McCain has doughnuts on his bus.

        Tough job, that basic professionalism thing.
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