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Jamison Foser
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Barack Obama, Notre Dame, and the Casey myth

May 15, 2009 8:05 pm ET

President Obama is scheduled to speak at Notre Dame's graduation ceremony this weekend, after more than a month of complaints from a small number of anti-abortion rights activists who have received media attention far disproportionate to their numbers.

Since the announcement on March 20 that Obama would speak, The Washington Post alone has addressed the controversy in 11 articles and columns. The New York Times has dealt with it in eight columns and articles. And as for television news segments, there have been too many to count.

Seeing the media behave as though it is completely natural that the anti-abortion rights activists want to exclude Obama from the Notre Dame commencement because of his views on abortion is more than a little bizarre.

Not only because Obama won a majority of votes cast by Americans, Catholics, Indiana residents, and probably Notre Dame students and faculty (Obama won 58 percent of the vote in St. Joseph County, in which Notre Dame is located). And not only because most of the country favors abortion rights* and stem cell research, as do a plurality of Catholics.

But also because of the Bob Casey myth. For nearly 17 years, the media have told us that the Democrats' refusal to allow Casey to speak at their 1992 national convention because of his opposition to abortion was an exclusionary, closed-minded stunt that drove away potential supporters.

Now, before we go any further, it's important to understand that Bob Casey was not denied a speaking role because of his views on abortion. I extensively debunked this myth in a column last year and won't rehash it now. For now, what matters is that the media have long pretended that it happened and lectured Democrats for taking such an intolerant position. It never made any sense -- particularly not when the Republicans have never allowed anyone to devote an entire convention speech to arguing in favor of abortion rights. So the Republicans have not allowed pro-choice speeches (speeches, not speakers) at their conventions, and most Americans are pro-choice ... and yet it is the Democrats who have been portrayed as a small-tent party. Bizarre.

And now we have conservative activists, at the nadir in their movement's history, with the political party to which they hitch their electoral wagon only slightly more popular than swine flu ... pushing people away, sending a signal that you are not welcome among them if you do not share their opposition to abortion rights and stem cell research. And the media, for the most part, treat this as a natural position for them to take. I haven't seen many warnings that their attempt to deny Obama the opportunity to speak at Notre Dame might drive away the majority of Americans -- and Catholics -- who approve of Obama, or who support stem cell research.

I have, however, seen some typically bad reporting about the nexus of religion and politics.

Take, for example, a recent Washington Post item headlined "Catholics Split Over Obama's Notre Dame Appearance." Sure, that's true -- if by "split," you mean "more than twice as many people approve as disapprove." But that's a pretty nonsensical definition of "split." The article isn't any better than the headline:

A vocal and influential constituency of American Catholics disapproves of the University of Notre Dame's decision to invite President Obama to speak at the Catholic university's commencement and receive an honorary degree in two weeks, but almost twice as many Catholics approve of the invitation, according to a new poll.

Actually, more than twice as many Catholics approve of the invitation, as we'll see shortly. But even the Post's misstatement of the support for the Obama invitation makes clear that the headline is silly.

Back to the Post:

Many people are angry at what they see as one of the nation's most prominent Catholic institutions honoring Obama, who supports abortion rights and embryonic stem cell research.

Yeah, if by "many," you mean "fewer than one in four Catholics." More from the Post:

But a poll just released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life shows 50 percent of Catholics saying they approve of the Notre Dame award to Obama, with 22 percent saying they disapprove. Twenty-two percent said they didn't know.

See how the Post got it wrong with its claim in the lead that "almost twice as many Catholics" approve of the decision? Fifty percent is more than twice as much as 22 percent, not nearly twice as much. More from the Post article:

The pollsters note, however, that there is a gap in the Notre Dame controversy between more and less observant Catholics. Among white, non-Hispanic Catholics who attend church weekly or more often, approval of the decision plummets to 37 percent. Forty-five percent said the decision was wrong. Among those who attend "less often," 56 percent support the invitation while 23 percent oppose it.

Wait a second. What about Hispanic and non-white Catholics who attend church weekly? "More observant Catholics" and "white, non-Hispanic Catholics who attend church weekly or more often" are simply not synonymous phrases. This is a classic bait-and-switch that is typical of media coverage of religion and politics -- it makes a sweeping statement about the opposition of religious people to progressive politicians and causes, and then supports it with polling data about white religious people. As though the only real religious people are (non-Hispanic!) whites. (Maybe that's because, according to some in the media, people of color aren't "regular people.")

And it shows the hoops reporters jump through to portray opposition to Obama's Notre Dame speech as anything other than a fringe position. Let's see ... we can't say most Americans oppose the invitation ... or most Catholics ... hmmm ... there must be some group that does ... how about white, non-Hispanic Catholics who attend church at least once a week, own a dog but not a cat, live in the Deep South, own guns, and own at least two cars? Bingo! But let's just refer to them as "more observant Catholics."

When reporters -- or pollsters -- have to slice the data that thin, you know they're grasping to justify paying so much attention to this trumped-up "controversy."

* True, there's a new Gallup poll that says most Americans call themselves "pro-life" for the first time. But that's a pretty loaded label. More important, the Gallup results seem fishy. Gallup says the large swing from a year ago is attributable entirely to a 10-percentage-point increase in Republicans and Republican-leaning independents who call themselves pro-life. But that 10-point increase can only result in the overall swing Gallup claims has occurred if more people are Republican or lean Republican today than a year ago. That's possible, but is inconsistent with other polling that shows fewer Americans than ever consider themselves Republicans. Until Gallup releases the full data, its press release shouldn't be taken particularly seriously.

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    • Author by MickD (May 15, 2009 8:32 pm ET)
      2  
      The frightful turncoat crazy man Alan Keyes was "arrested" for disorderly conduct protesting against President Obama at ND. Is there any bigger hypocrite or traitor?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Shizuoka (May 16, 2009 3:48 am ET)
           
        Are you asking about Keyes or obama?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by franky (May 16, 2009 3:07 pm ET)
        2  
        Is there any bigger hypocrite or traitor?

        Is that an essay question or yes/no?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (May 15, 2009 8:35 pm ET)
      2 17
      Don't look now, but the pro-choice crowd is losing the argument!
      Modern technology continues to whittle away at the distortions and lies promulgated by the pro-choice lobby. A life begins at conception. That life is human life, and as such is due the protection of the state to guarantee his or her 'life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
      They expect about 20,000 people there to protest the appearance of a man who denies one of the basic tenets of Christianity, Western Civilization, and the U.S. Whoever made the call to invite him is not listening to his or her own faith.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (May 15, 2009 9:02 pm ET)
        9 1
        >>Don't look now, but the pro-choice crowd is losing the argument!

        No, we are not. But by your own overblown rhetoric, it is clear your side is.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by fawltylogic (May 15, 2009 9:10 pm ET)
        14 1
        When did the right-wing start caring about the basic tenets of Christianity and Western Civilization? You want to control the populace in general and women in particular, that's what this is about. It's not about anything else - let's see you adopt the Catholic church's position on the death penalty. Or war. Or torture.

        *crickets*

        Get lost, hypocrite.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mrhebert74 (May 16, 2009 3:17 pm ET)
          2  
          owned.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by franky (May 16, 2009 3:34 pm ET)
             
          FawltyLogic: You want to control the populace in general and women in particular...

          The more autonomy/empowerment/education women have, the better. It results in lowered birthrates which are badly needed.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Revolution Ready (May 16, 2009 7:00 pm ET)
            4
          Yeah...you're absolutely right. We could care less about the millions of babies that should have been born, but were not because of infantcide in the US. It is because we want to "control" you.

          Are you serious about this? How selfish of you. And you call us hypocrites.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (May 18, 2009 10:54 am ET)
            1  
            Abortion is not infantacide. Feel free to be as delusional as you want to be reality is not based on your fantasies
            Report Abuse
      • Author by LuvLuLu (May 15, 2009 10:55 pm ET)
        12 3
        "A" life does not begin at conception. It's not "a" life until it can survive outside the womb. Before that, it's a potential human life. As potential life, it doesn't deserve the same protections as an adult human woman does.

        Same goes with fertilized eggs that would otherwise be discarded - that "life" doesn't get more respect by being thrown away than by being used in medical research that will help save some lives and vastly improve the lives of living, breathing human life!

        Potential life does not get the same protections of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that a real human being gets.

        And even if 20,000 protest, it's a drop in the bucket to the tens of millions who support Obama.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by badga (May 16, 2009 12:40 am ET)
            2
          i take it you have never been pregnant and felt that human life growing inside of you.
          So, your theory on "potential" life, does that mean there is a gray area when it comes to life. You are either alive, a little alive, potentially alive, maybe even a little dead, potentially dead and kind of dead. : )
          have you read anything about embryonic stem cell research? In China and other countries who have been trying to further this area of study, there has been no success. More can be done with adult stem cells than with embryonic.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by historygeek001 (May 18, 2009 5:06 pm ET)
               
            "...there has been no success. More can be done with adult stem cells than with embryonic." You're flat-out wrong. And what you're calling the "theory" about life seems pretty clear to me.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by DAWUSS (May 16, 2009 2:01 am ET)
            5
          Then I present to you the gunman who shoots at a pregnant woman, killing those inside.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Tim F (May 16, 2009 9:52 am ET)
               
            You must mean Eric Rudolph. Or maybe James Kopp. No? Peter James Wright? John Salvi? Shelley Shannon? Patricia Hughes? Jeremy Dunahoe?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by jjcomet514 (May 16, 2009 10:00 am ET)
               
            And your point is...? The shooter will be prosecuted for whatever harm he caused the woman. If you're saying he/she should be prosecuted for the harm he caused the fetuses, what about a pregnant woman who drinks or smokes (both perfectly legal activities), knowing that either can seriously harm a developing fetus? Should she also be prosecuted?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by rkallen09 (May 16, 2009 11:36 am ET)
                 
              what about a pregnant woman who drinks or smokes (both perfectly legal activities), knowing that either can seriously harm a developing fetus? Should she also be prosecuted?
              I made this point in an earlier thread. I am not sure how I feel about the issue of when life begins, but it seems to me that there has been a lack of consideration of just how far we go to protect the welfare of the unborn.

              I kind of wonder what the liberal side of anti-abortion laws would become. I mean think about it. If the Democrat party chose to embrace the notion of making abortions illegal, just think of the implications for a moment.

              Universal Health Care, for women at least, will be an absolute necessity to care for all these women who will now be forced to carry their babies to term. This will include prenatal care physicians, nutritionists for proper monitoring of diet, therapists for both physical low impact exercises and mental health care. Everything from the pregnancy test to the birth and even post natal care should be paid for 100% by the government. When the Republicans and Conservatives cry foul, we point out that we are merely trying to protect the life of the unborn.

              We will need to build more hospitals and care facilities that will care for low income mothers and provide them with the best possible care in controled and sterile environments. These facilities should be prepared to accomodate the mother for the entire term of her pregnancy if she should choose to do so.

              Daycare facilitites and quality child care development education should be provided to new mothers as well. Free of charge. Paid for by the tax payer, 100%.

              The entire adpotion system that currently exists will have to be revamped. New facilities will have to be constructed, the agencies will have to be expanded and the bureaucracy will have to be streamlined to process the influx of children. This should also include facilities for safe abandonment and an expansion of the laws that protect the women who abandon their children in one of these safe locations.

              There will have to be stronger laws in place for the protection of women who are employed to ensure that not only do they continue to receive their salaries from their employer while on pregnancy leave, but that they maintain their benefits, insurance, and can return to their position at any time when a physician has agreed that it is safe to do so.

              I tell you, it makes these socialist chops salivate at the big juicy burger of a nanny state that will need to be created to care for all these women and children. Something to think about.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by OutCry (May 16, 2009 7:22 pm ET)
                1
              uhhh.....yeah. He would be charged with harming the BABY. In fact that law was just passed last year.

              Now explain to me this. how is it that a baby is not a life until it breathes our air. So, it's okay to KILL the baby because it's not really a baby in the first place, right? Now, if a person kills the mother AND the unborn BABY he would be charged for both murders. How is this???

              And you all call us the hypocrites????
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 10:43 am ET)
                 
              And your point is...?
              Hidden by his hat.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by progressiveright (May 17, 2009 11:02 am ET)
              1  
              In many states if you kill a pregnant woman and the fetuses dies as well you can be charged with 2 counts of murder. The reason for this is that it is assumed by the law that the woman was going to have the baby.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 18, 2009 11:03 am ET)
                1  
                There is a extra crime in that whetehr or not the fetus is a "life." It takes the choice to bear the child away from the woman. This is akin to FORCING an abortion... which EVERY liberal would be ardently against. The fetus does not have to be a "life" to consider the crime more heinous.
                Report Abuse
        • Author by MissDee (May 16, 2009 10:08 am ET)
            8
          ""A" life does not begin at conception. It's not "a" life until it can survive outside the womb"

          So you're saying the environment conducive to life is the determinant? So then all those polar bears who are, according to GW fanatics, losing their environments are just "potential" polar bears, right? scoop 'em up, toss 'em out!

          Oh, and how many partial birth abortion victims HAVE survived, by the way?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (May 16, 2009 10:18 am ET)
            6  
            Please make some attempt at coherence Miss D.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MissDee (May 16, 2009 10:40 am ET)
                7
              what part of "how many partial birth abortion victims HAVE survied btw?" as the coutnerpoint to "survival outside the womb" does the kool-aid filter out from reaching your brain?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 16, 2009 1:04 pm ET)
                2  
                I'd guess you're drinking something a little stronger than Kool Aid Miss Dee. You really haven't managed to get a rational thought up here.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mrhebert74 (May 16, 2009 3:18 pm ET)
                  2  
                  ever.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by MissDee (May 16, 2009 3:57 pm ET)
                    5
                  I'd contend that you have no capacity to hear, let alone understand, anything you find inconvenient or uncomfortable to your indoctinated fanatical belief system and yoru critical thinking skills reduce to simply criticism of anything you think is threatening to your programing.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 16, 2009 5:08 pm ET)
                    3  
                    That's a little better.Still quite a few spelling & grammar problems, but I'm able to decipher what you're trying to say at least.

                    And what you're trying to say is that other people are responsible for your inability to express a clear thought. How unusual, that total lack of personal responsibility coming from a right wing nut. And by unusual, I mean completely predictable.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 10:49 am ET)
                       
                    I'd contend that you have no capacity to hear...anything you find inconvenient or uncomfortable to your indoctinated fanatical belief system and yoru critical thinking skills reduce to simply criticism of anything you think is threatening to your programing.
                    Do you believe now that your posts have sound?

                    By the way, Miss DeeMinus, your post is an excellent example of right-winghut projection. It describes every single post you have ever made to this site. You are full of condescension and derision without providing evidence that you are intelligent enough to sustain either, and it is clear that you misunderstand or fear every idea that MMfA addresses here.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 10:44 am ET)
                   
                what part of "how many partial birth abortion victims HAVE survied btw?" as the coutnerpoint to "survival outside the womb" does the kool-aid filter out from reaching your brain?
                No kool-aid, but your question is senseless because there is no such thing as a "partial-birth abortion."
                Report Abuse
          • Author by captfoster2 (May 17, 2009 2:34 am ET)
            1  
            "Oh, and how many partial birth abortion victims HAVE survived, by the way?"

            MissDee,

            Is that a trick question about right-wing lunatics, like yourself or were you just trying to make a funny?
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Revolution Ready (May 16, 2009 7:10 pm ET)
             
          How about you help me out on something here, then. How is it that our federal government can prosecute a person for 2 counts of murder IN THE FIRST DEGREE if he kills an unborn BABY and the mother???

          How is it, then that we are called the hypocrites??? Is it not a hypocritical statement to say on one hand that abortion is okay BECAUSE IT IS NOT A LIFE, but once a mother and an unborn baby dies in a murder, it is now considered a life??? And if you say it is not contradictory, then you yourself are a hypocrite.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (May 16, 2009 9:17 am ET)
        5  
        You can keep saying a seperate life begins at conception for another hundred years that is nothing but your opinion. Americans still favor the right to choose. Your delusions notwithstanding. Things dont become true just because you WISH they were.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 16, 2009 1:05 pm ET)
          2  
          I'm trying to figure out when "modern technology" was replaced with edrossinetc.'s religious opinions.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by progressiveright (May 17, 2009 11:06 am ET)
          2  
          The funny thing is that if you take the bible litterly life does not begin a comseption but not untill there is blood in the fetus. So those on the right are misusing the bible like all relious zelots have in the past. (their religious book)
          Report Abuse
      • Author by glogrrl (May 16, 2009 8:44 pm ET)
        3  
        edrossinoelwein9669: As a "fallen away" Catholic (baptized and raised), I find it curious that a group of holier-than-thou Catholics and others have the nerve to protest Obama's appearance at Notre Dame's graduation when George W. Bush was embraced and celebrated there---the same George W. Bush who has used the death penalty more than any other governor (and with great relish, I might add) in history--remember Carla Fay Tucker? His response to her plea for mercy after she found Jesus and did good works in prison: mockingly simulating her voice, to Tucker Carlson on national television, "Please don't kill me! Please don't kill me"! And the same George W. Bush that took our country to war, gleefully, on a pack of lies and against a country that had done nothing to us. And the same George W. Bush who authorized torture, against the Geneva Conventions, and against the will of the majority of the American people--and then lied about it when he said "We don't torture"--again on national TV. The hypocricy of this pack of jackels who are protesting is breathtaking! And I always wondered why the conservatives are so concerned with the person BEFORE birth and then after birth, You're On Your Own.......pull yourself up by your bootstraps, no help from the government when you are in dire straits, etc. So I say, if you don't like abortion, don't have one. And quit protesting against a man who is trying to reduce abortions by making contraception more available to REDUCE abortions--but of course, you are all against birth control, too. What numbskulls!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 18, 2009 11:00 am ET)
             
          I know. The Catholic Church is at leats PRINCIPLED on their pro-life stance: Against Abortion, Against Death Penalty, Agaist War. But these whack-job anti-abortion protesters ry to use the Catholics without really understadning that they must in fact stand in principled opposition ot BOTH PARTIES. You can't be a REPUBLICAN and be a Catholic either. Not if you listen to the POPE anyway.

          Disclosure: I am a lapsed or former Catholic. I no longer participate in religious ritual, but I do undertsand the church and how it works, having been raised in it. I don't AGREE with their positions (I'm pro-choice AND pro-death penatly; principled in my opposition, I guess!) by I do admire the logical consitancy that their position possesses. It's lost on the religious fundy's though. (And what's lost on Catholics is just how much they're HATED by the fundy's.)
          Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 16, 2009 10:16 pm ET)
        3  
        If human life begins at conception, will all miscarriages turn a woman's womb into a murder scene?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 10:51 am ET)
          2  
          Prosecuting God for miscarriages might be a problem. You thought it was hard getting Karl Rove into a courtroom, wait until some wingnut tries to subpoena God.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 16, 2009 10:20 pm ET)
        2  
        And since when do you guys care about science? There are no peer-reviewed studies that can disprove global warming, but when science says that, science is junk. Show us the studies that prove your point.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (May 17, 2009 4:44 pm ET)
          1  
          Do not, repeat, DO NOT hold your breath waiting for those studies my friend
          Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (May 17, 2009 8:08 am ET)
        1  
        So how do you plan on policing abortion from the point of conception?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 18, 2009 9:18 am ET)
           
        Nonsense. The POTENTIAL for life doesn't even begin at conception. At best, THAT start at implantion in the uterine wall. Which, BTW, would completely allow stem-cell research unresrticted and disallow abortion only if you take the most concervative position possible.

        Get these FACTS through your head, moron: The democrats have taken back both houses of congress, the majority of state governorships and the popular vote in four of the last five elections. YOU are losing arguments on EVERY FRONT.

        The conservatives have lost all credability on fiscal discipline, foreign policy and family values. You have proven yourselves to be opportunistinc as opposed to principled and the American people KNOW IT.

        So you can stop your gleeful gloating. You'd look mighty arrogant, if you didn't appear so misinformed and stupid.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by vonbargen9388 (May 16, 2009 1:10 am ET)
         
      It gets worse. Tonight, hannity stated that "The Catholic Church" was opposed to Obama speaking at Notre Dame and actually ran a film collage called "Angels and Obama" with outtakes from the new Tom Hanks movie. When fox starts calling the president the Anti-
      Christ, it's time to call Wanda Sykes back up to the stage.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ex-punk (May 16, 2009 1:32 am ET)
      7  
      Abortion has always been a red herring arguement for the right wing. They say they are against abortion but never do anything to change the law, not even when they had a majority. It's like Obama rightly pointed out, that the right wing gives you guns and religion. You can only fool so may people for so long.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by radspiker17786 (May 16, 2009 7:52 am ET)
          1
        If we didn't have our guns the left would take away our ability to practice our religion. Praise God for NRA!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (May 18, 2009 10:58 am ET)
          1  
          If that was a satrical take on a braindead, paranoid wingnut good job. If you are serious then get help immediatly.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by radspiker17786 (May 16, 2009 8:10 am ET)
           
        So sorry I should have said Bod Bless the NRA not God Praise the NRA.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Shizuoka (May 16, 2009 3:44 am ET)
         
      The writer seems frightened. The fruit does not fall far from the tree...does it? Suggestions to readers: Do not trust this media. Drop the miraculous "..new poll.." in the trash. Think for yourself and ask a lot of questions.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by shyeager (May 16, 2009 10:32 am ET)
         
      So what is to be made of this Gallup poll??? Or can some mental gymnastics be used to twist the results? http://mediamatters.org/columns/200905150039
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Cautious Man (May 16, 2009 11:09 am ET)
      1  
      Regarding the Gallup poll.

      In addition to the "Are you prolife?" data, there were also questions on views on abortion restrictions. The percentage which would ban all abortions, is lower than the percentage calling themselves "prolife".

      I think the disconnect is simple - lots of people use the term "prolife" to describe what they would do personally, and not as a political term. There are lots of people who, personally, would not choose abortion, but at the same are not willing to make that decision for someone else.

      In other words, I think that the "personally pro-life/politically pro-choice" group is a not insignificant percentage. It serves the political pro-life side to try to raise the temperature of the discussion, to sway more of this group. Conversely, the pro-choice side really has to acknowlege that some people will choose alternatives to abortion, yet support abortion rights for others.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (May 18, 2009 11:00 am ET)
           
        Exactly. The amorphous term pro-life isnt that useful in this context. The REAL question is how may want Roe V Wade overturned?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jcalton (May 16, 2009 11:44 am ET)
      3  
      ND is not a Catholic university. It was not founded by the Vatican, and does not answer to the pope. It is a historically catholic university. They have chapels, temples, and synagogues to other religions on campus. You are not required to be catholic to go there. You are not required to be "Irish" to go there. They don't require you to be Republican. They accept pro-choice applicants. They have pro-choice faculty and staff.

      ND does not equal abortion issues.

      So. It's a university. A very well-known private university with a SMALL amount of academic prestige, but a HUGE amount of alumni network support. It is in one of the university's best interests to have Presidents of the United States speak there, at any opportunity. This is essentially true of any major university, or any university that wishes it could be a major university.

      However, ND gets a lot of donations from alumni who care about abortion (and football). They just have to decide if they'd rather have the money, or the prestige. The university board/president/curators are not making a decision about abortion (or any political issue) no matter what the media try to tell you.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 16, 2009 1:12 pm ET)
        2  
        This issue ties into yet another demonstration of how exhausting and confusing it must be to maintain modern Republican status.

        I heard several days of make-believe outrage that Obama was going to be "allowed" to speak to Catholics at NOtre Dame.

        And just as this outrage was hitting it's climax, the wingnuts were instructed to adopt a brand new and completely opposite outrage that Obama was NOT going to speak to Catholics on the National Day of Prayer.

        I realize these hard core rightys are a relatively small segment of our population, but there must be at least a few million, and I'd be concerned if there were only a hundred of my fellow Americans that were gullible enough to be manipulated the way they are.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by gordon hall (May 16, 2009 7:33 pm ET)
             
          .
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 10:55 am ET)
          1  
          The GOP's complete incoherence proves the old adage, "It is better to tell the truth, for then you don't have to remember as much." The GOP has lied so much over the last 30 years that all their contradictory positions on everything are now coming home to roost.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by franky (May 16, 2009 2:50 pm ET)
           
        JCalton: "You are not required to be "Irish" to go there."

        Of course you're right, but maybe it should be a prerequisite as reparation for this university having taken liberties with the economic and social prospects of Irish Americans for over a century. I don't know much about Notre Dame other than that they have had some good football teams and that they, unfortunately, get A LOT of attention. As an Irish-Catholic American myself, I wish they'd consider dropping the word "Fighting" from their teams' name. (I've felt this way for a very long time.)

        It's weird enough to name any team after an ethnicity or race such as the Vikings or the Celtics or Indians, but to also add a negative characterization is 'beyond the pale' in my mind. What other group in this country is so maligned? Imagine a similar slur for another nationality, like The Genocidal Generics (fill in the group), The Hagglin' Whoevers, The Fornicating Whachamacallems.

        But as bad as the above imaginary examples would be, I submit that 'Fighting' is worse in that it much more so invites discrimination. What boss wants to hire somebody whose going to disrupt their organization with physical violence? What manager wants to make a hire who is likely to assault him if and when he has to fire that person? What landlord wants to rent to someone who might hurt his current tenants or maybe himself if he has to evict? What potential customer wants to do business with someone who's likely to try to beat them up if there is a business dispute? Etecetera. Combine that with the over-drinking stereotype and we have quite the obstacle to overcome.

        They may say I'm being too sensitive, that "Fighting" is a positive and manly sort of appellation. Maybe so, but what about that young Irish American who can't get a job, can't find a place to stay who winds up in the criminal justice system? How much good will an unearned reputation for pugilistic prowess or temperament do him with the true tough guys in prison?

        Any of you disagree? Want a piece of me?---I'm right here. I'll kick your candy asses up and down these boards so bad you'll wish YOU was never born.

        (kidding on the last bit)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by johnqdoe (May 16, 2009 9:01 pm ET)
             
          I think ND has tried to move away from the "Fighting". I don't know if they've officially changed the name, but most of the stuff they sell nowadays just says "Irish".

          The name ("Fighting Irish") actually was given to the ND football teams of the past as a term of admiration by journalists. It was not a term selected by the University. Journalists used the term because the team featured tough, combative Irishmen and it caught on. The teams liked being referred to in that way. So, it's not really a derogatory term toward the Irish.

          But, obviously the school sees how it can be problematic, as you've described, which is why they don't use it any more.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne1 (May 17, 2009 7:27 pm ET)
             
          Nothing personal, but your complaint is about 100-150 years too late if yer askin', which you ain't. But I'm just sayin'.

          Besides it's those Italians that are the real scrappers ;-)
          Report Abuse
    • Author by elainek. (May 16, 2009 12:13 pm ET)
         
      thanks for a well written, cogent explanation of the issue. i really appreciated being reminded to 'walk' through the numbers, mr. foser. it's too easy :( to be lulled by the storyteller or objective news source (whichever), into accepting their read on any given topic. i needed the 'of course(!)' e.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by debarra1983 (May 16, 2009 3:47 pm ET)
         
      The Gallup poll is flawed. There (reportedly) were interviews with 1,015 people, all of them conducted over the telephone. The demographics of interviewees who don't screen their calls, have land lines, spend their time answering survey questions, etc. is a skewed group, not representative of all Americans. This is no more relevant than my telling you my survey found 90% of people believe abortion should remain legal.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by DianneU (May 16, 2009 5:27 pm ET)
         
      Thanks SO MUCH for this article. I live 40 miles from Notre Dame and can assure you that this entire matter has been implanted. The residents didn't complain, and even the first "news" reports showed that it was only themselves that were protesting. Since the first reports, more media has shown up to report on this non-story, and make it seem that ALL Catholica and ALL residents of Indiana do not support Obama or pro-choice. This is media misinformation at its worst and I for one OBJECT!! It's an outrage that the people being quoted are "former" cardinals, bishops and priests. Not one active Catholic has been interviewed. Even the local news outlets have commented about how this has been imposed on the people of South Bend, and the costs of this media circus is outrageous. I applaud the leaders at Notre Dame for NOT caving to this misrepresentation, and for sticking to their grounds for having the President appear and give his speech. What's a shame is the chance for a dialogue on the subject at hand, and Obama's true stance on the issue. Isn't that the true meaning of Christianity? Yeah, I thought so too.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by gordon hall (May 16, 2009 7:23 pm ET)
         
      UND's giving an honarary doctorate to Obama pales in comparison to the papal knighthood of the Pontifical Order of St Gregory the Great, bestowed on Vienna's Deputy Mayor Renate Brauner by the Archbishop of Austria, Cardinal Schonborn. Brauner is an outspoken pro-choice politician.

      Obama is only being awarded an honorary degree by a Catholic university. Brauner waa given one of the Church's highest honors by a very orthodox Cardinal, yet there was scarcely any mention of this by the Catholic Right. Or is there a different standard for European politicians?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by roninkannushi1711 (May 16, 2009 7:25 pm ET)
         
      To disarm everyone... That is, so last century. Men controlling women using men, religion and influence. What is with this, "stumble?" Mowing the lawn will not rid a weed. It must be pulled, from the root. The root cause, in this and many other issue is violence, and the use thereof. Religion was created to explain the unknown and find reason. We know better, don't we?
      Start walking, we know. One entitled, the horizon becomes smaller, yet unattainable. In other words, you having all the gold, does not mean you own me. Fear and control. If I take your money, I am in debt. Keep your money, get richer. I am not for sale. I have questions, pay with your actions. I have one vote!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by avedon (May 16, 2009 8:40 pm ET)
      10  
      I'm pro-life - because I'm pro-choice, which is the only genuinely pro-life position.

      After all, I don't support legislation which brings us dead women in back-alleys, you know?

      Laws against abortion don't prevent abortion, they just prevent legal abortion.

      Claiming to be pro-life while opposing legal abortion is just a lie.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (May 17, 2009 8:22 am ET)
        3  
        Exactly. What difference does it make if you make a lofty moral stand on an issue that is completely out of your control? The right likes to think that there is an ethical concern for situations where bad things happen because of active decisions but no ethical concern where it is just a side effect. For example, the decision to unplug Terri Schiavo set them off but they didn't feel the need to do more to save Katrina victims or avoid civillian casualties in war. More sex ed and birth control would probably prevent more abortions than their political grandstanding would but they figure that is not their job.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (May 17, 2009 6:54 pm ET)
           
        That logic isn't very transferrable. Let's play mad libs:

        "Laws against __bad_thing__ don't prevent __bad_thing__, they just prevent legal __bad_thing__."
        Report Abuse
    • Author by senske57 (May 16, 2009 8:43 pm ET)
      10  
      Passing laws does not stop abortion. In countries like Chile, Peru, Venezuela and most other south american contries, abortion is illegal, just like you "right to lifers" want. Yet, women there seek out and obtain them illegally at the rate of 50 per thousand. In countries like Belgium and the Nethelands where abortion is legal, women seek out and obtain an abortion only at the rate of 7 per thousand. What's going on? Well, in those two countries they have universal health care and comprehensive sex education for young people. So, I say to those conservatives: If you really care about those dead babies like you say you do and this is not just about controling women, then you have no choice but to support the politicians that are promoting universal health care and comprehensive sex education for young people, because those things and only those have been shown to stop women from getting an abortion. I will say it again: passing laws doesn't stop it! Offer some other ideas besides making abortion illegal if you really care about the unborn. I am not convinced!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by captfoster2 (May 17, 2009 4:18 pm ET)
           
        If only the feeble mind of a right-winger could so easily see the logic in your post we would be in much better shape as a county!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by armond5028 (May 17, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
         
      Regarding the latest Gallup Poll on attitudes toward abortion: something is indeed rotten in the state of Denmark, as Mr. Foser implies. Perhaps the concerned and intelligent contributors to MM and its well-informed and intellectually honest readers (its other readers may be excused from this request)could dig into this matter.

      Having watched David Gregory on this morning's Meet The Press use the stats from this poll as "facts" that needed to be dealt with by his two guests, I can see that we can't count on the big network newsboys and girls to raise an appropriately skeptical eyebrow. Something is clearly wrong with this poll. It's up to us to find out what's going on!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by welterwill998306 (May 17, 2009 3:40 pm ET)
      1  
      Man, both sides are missing the point. Obama has said numerous times that he's trying to work with the pro-life groups and the pro-choice groups to get to some common ground. I think women should have the right to chose but there should be a definite limit on how late in the pregnancy an abortion should be performed. I'm against abortion for convenience and women should be educated well about what they are about to do before they have an abortion. Also more pregnancy prevention option should be explored by scientist and both groups. Thats my opinion.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ZachPruckowski (May 17, 2009 4:40 pm ET)
         
      but almost twice as many Catholics approve of the invitation, according to a new poll


      Thing is, there's 6% missing in that poll:

      • 50% approve
      • 22% disapprove
      • 22% don't know


      50 + 22 + 22 = 94%. So 6% have an opinion, but their opinion isn't approve/disapprove, and it isn't "don't know"? I think that what happened is that the Post grouped these people in as "disapprove" when calculating "almost two to one".
      Report Abuse
    • Author by juliajayne (May 17, 2009 8:07 pm ET)
         
      Anybody interested in reading a reasoned, scientific and historically (including history about the Catholic church) accurate debate on abortion should read this article by Carl Sagan from the book "Billions and Billions" excerpted here:

      http://www.2think.org/abortion.shtml


      You might be surprised by what you learn. Interesting stuff.
      Report Abuse

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