O'Reilly and Fox News will have more right-wing vigilantism to explain
If Fox News is going to continue to traffic in hateful rhetoric, then folks at Fox News, as well as their apologists in the GOP Noise Machine, are going to have to come up with better talking points to spin away the atmosphere of vigilantism fomented by their words and actions.
They need a better line of defense because the one they trotted out in the wake of the right-wing assassination of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller was wholly unconvincing.
It was just as feeble as the defense Fox News' Glenn Beck tried to employ in May to distance himself from the accused right-wing cop killer in Pittsburgh who seemed to mimic Beck's language about how President Obama was coming to take away everyone's guns.
The Fox News crew is going to need better talking points because I fear the violence -- the bouts of right-wing domestic terrorism -- are likely to continue. As long as Fox News and the Noise Machine refuse to back off the incendiary language that they're actively mainstreaming, the political violence, visible just months into Obama's historic first term, may have only begun.
Note that during a jailhouse interview, Tiller's suspected killer claimed that similar assassination plots against abortion providers are already being planned.
And please note what you did not hear from virtually anyone on the far right who addressed the Tiller story last week. Yes, they tried furiously to distance Bill O'Reilly from the controversy or suggest there was nothing problematic with the "baby killer" rhetoric he used. But what you did not hear was anyone condemn, or even take issue with, O'Reilly's on-air crusade.
Why the silence? Because militia-style vigilante rhetoric has become a cornerstone of the conservative media movement in America, and it's now proudly championed by Fox News on a nearly hourly basis.
The fact is, I couldn't find a single prominent voice within the GOP Noise Machine who even hinted that O'Reilly's relentless attacks on Tiller were in any way off the mark or, in light of the vigilante Kansas church killing, needed to be reconsidered, that they should have been dialed down. And that's why the ugliness has only begun.
The unconvincing right-wing defense in the wake of the Tiller assassination last week was twofold, with the second layer even thinner than the first. The first was that when conservatives were hounding and demonizing Tiller for years, they were merely debating the issue of abortion. And surely nobody in America opposes a healthy debate, right? Nobody opposes "sharp political disagreement," as Michelle Malkin sugarcoated the Tiller attack, right?
Second, Noise Machine leaders claimed that liberal commentators do exactly what O'Reilly and Beck have been accused of: using violent political hate language that puts people's lives in danger. That claim has been made over and over, yet conservatives can't actually produce any proof -- can't find any hateful liberal quotes -- to buttress the claim.
That's because both talking points are complete fabrications.
First, the idea that O'Reilly and company simply debated Tiller's work is laughable. O'Reilly's never been interested in any kind of back-and-forth about the abortion issue. He just rants and demonizes the other side. And in the case of Tiller, O'Reilly portrayed him as a lawless executioner. As Mary Alice Carr, vice president of communications for NARAL Pro-Choice New York, wrote in a recent op-ed for The Washington Post, "O'Reilly knew that people wanted Tiller dead, and he knew full well that many of those people were avid viewers of his show. Still, he fanned the flames."
And besides, if O'Reilly had merely been debating abortion -- if he had said nothing about Tiller that was regrettable or out of line -- why did O'Reilly at least twice last week falsely claim that he'd never called the doctor a "baby killer"?
Still, according to Brent Bozell's NewsBusters, O'Reilly had simply "spoke[n] critically of Tiller's abortionist practices" and merely "used harsh words to describe Tiller."
Decide for yourself. Since FNC defenders often refuse to reprint O'Reilly's quotes, here's an unvarnished look at what he said about Tiller; here's what he said before an anti-abortion zealot assassinated Tiller and then claimed his actions were justified:
- "In the state of Kansas, there is a doctor, George Tiller, who will execute babies for $5,000."
- "For $5,000, 'Tiller the Baby Killer' -- as some call him -- will perform a late-term abortion for just about any reason."
- "Tiller has killed thousands, thousands of late-term fetuses without explanation."
- "No question, Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands."
- " 'Tiller the Baby Killer' out in Kansas, acquitted, acquitted today of murdering babies."
- "This guy will kill your baby for $5,000, any reason. Any reason."
- "If we allow Dr. George Tiller and his acolytes to continue, we can no longer pass judgment on any behavior by anybody."
- "If we allow this, America will no longer be a noble nation."
As for the Noise Machine's fallback position, it's that liberal commentators do exactly what O'Reilly and Beck have been accused of: trafficking in hateful rhetoric that endangers innocent people.
Making the charge at NewsBusters, Noel Sheppard claimed:
[A]s [Keith] Olbermann and his ilk on MSNBC and throughout the liberal blogosphere routinely referred to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as murderers, would they have been responsible if someone had assassinated either of these former White House members?
Sheppard was sure that Olbermann had called Bush and Cheney murderers. He was sure Olbermann's references to the POTUS and VP were "equally provocative" as O'Reilly's references to Tiller.
Except, of course, Sheppard failed to produce a single Olbermann quote that even comes close to the seething, unhinged hate rants that O'Reilly unfurled for years against Tiller. Meaning, there is no comparison between what O'Reilly said about Tiller and what Olbermann has said about Bush and Cheney. Yet this entire right-wing defense hinges on the idea that the language was identical. That there's a moral equivalence.
Desperate to move the spotlight away from O'Reilly's irresponsible actions, conservatives last week tried to claim that liberal pundits might be responsible for the killing of a military recruiter in Arkansas who was gunned down by a Muslim convert trying to send a political message. Why the liberal pundits? Because they had created a dangerous anti-military atmosphere.
Beck made that very claim on his radio show [emphasis added]:
BECK: Well, let me ask you this. I had to really search the news long and hard to find out about the two recruiters -- the two soldiers that had been killed by the Muslim convert, that were gunned down in Arkansas. I had to really look hard for that. Is anybody asking is Keith Olbermann responsible for the death of those two soldiers? Keith Olbermann has railed against recruiters. Keith Olbermann has railed against the baby killers that our U.S. soldiers are. He's railed against this war. MSNBC was right all over the story about how our troops are torturing and killing innocents. Has anybody asked if he's responsible?
Slight problem. Neither Beck nor anyone else on the right last week could find any hateful, violent anti-recruiter attacks launched by liberal media personalities. (Let alone baby-killing quotes.) Why can't they find the rhetoric? Because nobody on the left with any sort of national platform has targeted military recruiters in recent years. If they had, Malkin would have included the damning quotes in her column. (Either that, or she needs to hire a new researcher.)
Have there been, over the years, occasional efforts on the left to ban military recruiters from campuses and other environments? There certainly have. Can conservatives point to any kind of wholesale hate rhetoric or vigilante-style calls to action by mainstream liberal pundits and commentators designed to dehumanize and demonize military recruiters? Of course they cannot. (And sorry, Code Pink demonstrations don't qualify as mainstream media commentators.) Because if conservatives could have found those kinds of irresponsible attacks, they would have thrown them back in everyone's faces last week.
But apparently, they don't exist.
As far as I know, there are no gotcha, hateful, get-the-recruiter quotes to hang around the necks of Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow or anyone else on the left for the simple reason that high-profile media liberals haven't led dangerous crusades to target military recruiters the way O'Reilly led a dangerous crusade against Tiller. And the way Beck has against Obama.
As a rule, media liberals don't traffic in irresponsible, militia-style rhetoric. But agitators like O'Reilly and Beck do, and now conservatives can't make that fact go away.
That's why the Fox News crew and its eager apologists are going to have to come up with a better line of defense. Because as long as Fox News peddles its incendiary vigilante rhetoric, the right-wing violence in America will continue, and Fox News is going to have to answer for it.

















http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.32cde4b38d55ae6af28266bb31a7221e.851&show_article=1
AS it turns out, evidence now shows that the shooter at the Holocaust museum was NOT A CONSERVATIVEYour text to link here...!
Kinda shreds Boehlert's claim, doesn't it? LOL!
Of course he was.
Guess what? This guy was a far right loon. He was not some sort of fantasy leftist.
If he will perform an abortion for $5,000, why is it wrong to say so?
Oh, and by the way, here is a piece of an article/commentary from Keith Olberman for your viewing pleasure. You're correct, I can't find ANY hateful rhetoric in these words! I didn't have to look hard for this.
"I accuse you, Mr. Bush, of lying this country into war.
I accuse you of fabricating in the minds of your own people, a false implied link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11.
I accuse you of firing the generals who told you that the plans for Iraq were disastrously insufficient.
I accuse you of causing in Iraq the needless deaths of 3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors.
I accuse you of subverting the Constitution, not in some misguided but sincerely-motivated struggle to combat terrorists, but to stifle dissent.
I accuse you of fomenting fear among your own people, of creating the very terror you claim to have fought.
I accuse you of exploiting that unreasoning fear, the natural fear of your own people who just want to live their lives in peace, as a political tool to slander your critics and libel your opponents.
I accuse you of handing part of this Republic over to a Vice President who is without conscience, and letting him run roughshod over it."
Here is the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19588942/page/2/
The lies of O'Reilly and Fox are where the 100% negativity you project upon Olbermann really live. I'm not surprised at your comments, coming from someone who thinks a web site and a television program are "identical formats."
Hypocrisy, thy name is media matters.
...didn't think so.
I have read comments from most of the main lefties who post here saying that they don't like liars of any persuasion. On top of that, it does NOT defend a liar to say that others are lying too.
So, we don't like you, MissDee, because you lie. We posters are not hostile and defensive when actual valid criticism gets tossed our way. Your strawman argument is that what you and other rightwing trolls toss out is valid criticism!
Words are important. How they are delivered and who they are delivered to are just as critical. O'Reilly is popular for one reason - he stirs up the masses with populist rhetoric. I will agree that even O'Reilly didn't want Dr. Tiller killed. But he did want him stopped. Turns out of his devotees just picked a drastic method of doing so.
This is the difference. The right has many more options and more people issuing these sort of speeches on a daily basis. They are proud of that and are unlikely to slow up in the near future. As a result, the potential is there for more trouble.
Olbermann has been very tough on Bush and Cheney but they are no longer key players. They are yesterday's news O'Reilly gives out addresses of any current person he doesn't like. He encourages his followers to "do something" about it RIGHT NOW.
When one does, he washes his hands and says that isn't what he had in mind.
Too bad. Too late.
So, explain to me why it is inaccurate to call a man who kills babies a "baby killer."
Inaccurate? No. Inflammatory? Yes. From the above piece:
First, the idea that O'Reilly and company simply debated Tiller's work is laughable. O'Reilly's never been interested in any kind of back-and-forth about the abortion issue. He just rants and demonizes the other side.
Mr. O'Reilly wasn't inviting calm, policy debates with his kind of rhetoric. He was on a crusade. That's the difference.
Next item:
Oh, and by the way, here is a piece of an article/commentary from Keith Olberman for your viewing pleasure. You're correct, I can't find ANY hateful rhetoric in these words!
Even though I'm a fan of Mr. Olbermann's, I won't pretend for one minute that he went after the Bush Administration with cool detachment. The difference, however, is that Mr. Olbermann's "solution" to what to do about the Bush Problem...if you want to call it that...was using the law (impeachment, criminal investigations, etc.). No "if I could get my hands on him" stuff.
Words have meanings. The fact that jpeagle21's words do not match the meaning he is trying to contort them into is very telling.
You have made the same accusation several times in the other O'Reilly thread. You had no proof then, either. Why do you think that merely making the accusation several times without an ounce of corroboration somehow makes your claims truthful?
And all you have done is told me I am wrong, you have not provided any proof. Show your proof of your claim that the charges were brought by a partisan prosecuter, you made the ststement.
I'd be contacting a Fedral authority's with proof, if I had it. As opposed to defaming someone semi-anonymously on a web site thread.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09010904.html
Former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline is a central figure in two separate abortion scandal cases: one involving 19 charges against George Tiller, and another involving 107 charges against the Kansas division of Planned Parenthood.
Last month, Planned Parenthood attorney Pedro Irigonegaray subpoenaed Kline as part of a separate case, pursuing allegations that Kline improperly handled medical records. Tiller’s attorneys filed a motion the next day asking for a Sedgwick County judge to grant them all documents related to the Kline subpoena. Tiller’s defense also asked for copies of documents from Kline’s Planned Parenthood abortion investigations that Kline provided to the Attorney General’s office last week on the order of the Kansas Supreme Court.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/giroux/090331
When Phill Kline was Kansas Attorney General (2002-2006), the Kansas Supreme Court held up his investigation for 2 years virtually, running out the statute of limitations on many of the cases. The abortion industry understood clearly that Kline was onto the crimes inside of George Tiller's clinic and immediately set out to defeat him in order to be sure that a conviction would never occur. They did, in fact, defeat Kline in November of 2006, but before leaving office Kline charged George Tiller with 30 charges of late-term abortions.
Okay, so you asked for proof that charges were brought by Kline? Any rookie lawyer knows to not ask for an answer to any question if you don't already know the answer you'll get. Clearly you ain't the sharpest tack in the box!
"In 2005, Morrison switched from the Republican to the Democratic Party and announced he would challenge Republican Phill Kline in 2006 for Attorney General."
You're right. There's no way a life-long Republican that switched parties for pure political gain could have possibly opposed abortion. Six was just stuck with this case because Morrison decided to have an affair with a staffer.
As for Bush, he committed war crimes and Olbermann is spot on to call him on it and accuse him of it. Have you know patriotism?
Tiller committed no crime, yet O'Reilly campaigns steadfast and dances on his grave against the man's legal actions that broke O'Reilly's Law. O'Reilly's God trumps the rule of law, which Tiller never broke. O'Reilly's campaign lead to Tiller's assassination.
O'Reilly knows he played a part in it - THIS IS WHY O'REILLY NO LONGER CALLS TILLER A 'BABY KILLER'.
In America, what you call a baby killer is called by law an abortion provider. To call someone a killer is to imply they murder. An abortion is not murder in America. It may be to you but you are not our laws.
KO:
"I accuse you of causing in Iraq the needless deaths of 3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors."
It was Bush's choice to send them to Iraq preemptively and it was the woman's choice to seek an abortion. If Tiller didn't perform it, plans would have been made for someone else to perform it. IF George W Bush hadn't invaded Iraq who would have?
So you tell me? Is the unborn child a human or not. Our lawmakers certainly don't seem to be able to make up their minds.
btw Our honorable brothers and sisters who have fallen in the line of duty chose to become the heros of our nation. They died with honor and dignity and it is a great loss for our country while at the same time being a great source of pride that has been shown by these fallen Americans. Murdered children however are a shameful commentary in our nation's history.
And yet, you folks NEVER want the woman charged with murder, just the physician that the woman CHOOSES to see. Why not? If abortion is truly murder why don't you folks demand that the woman be charged with murder as well? Why aren't you folks out there bombing, shooting and murdering women who've chosen to terminate their pregnancy?
Because your cause to end abortions would come to a dead end. Because common sense thinking people would not believe that women controlling what happens to their bodies is murder.
Does the right KNOW that conception requires sperm? (Like the treatment of prostitution offenses - the women are jailed and the men are invisible). Women go to health clinics alone.
Let's let this death make a difference. Dr Tiller was killed to take rights away from women who are solely responsible for reproduction in America. Let's take that right away from the men who create the 'babies' to begin with - Operation Rescue could terrorize the men responsible - that would reduce the abortion rate significantly.
So for legal purposes, such as the murder of a pregnant woman, the intent of the woman makes a difference. If a woman was three weeks pregnant and murdered, that's not double homicide. If she was eight months pregnant, her intent to give birth is clear. The law is consistent in this concept.
If I am not mistaken, the lawfulness of the abortion time is up to the State. In Kansas there is no time-line that says when abortions cannot be done. They are only illegal when the fetus is determined to be viable (can live outside the womb). Guess who makes that determination.......the doctor. The fact that they have to have another doctor present in case the baby comes out still alive should tell you how accurate that determination is.
Abortion did not become a religious issue until the Supreme Court ruling permitting abortions. There is nothing historical to suggest that the religious point that life begins at conception. Religions were content with the common law as it was applied before the ruling. Since the court ruling we have religions weighing in on the "sanctity of life" which state that life in the womb starts as soon as the egg is fertilized and therefor, any abortion should be treated as murder.
That was the heart of the case, the doctor that Tiller had confirming the diagnosis had a financial relationship with Tiller and his clinic. Tiller was her cash cow in fact. .http://www.lifenews.com/state4003.html
It doesn't matter what the heart of the case was, the conclusion determined by the court was that the "heart of the case" was not accurate. Therefore, your claim of a "financial relationship" has no legal standing, and therefore, every time you bring it up, you are trying to argue using yet another proven lie.
The consulting doctor was independent. She misspoke in an earlier deposition.
But what I want to know again is why are you such a traitorous American? After all, a jury determined that the consulting physician was believable and acquitted Dr Tiller of all charges. Why are you so unpatriotic that you would trash our nation's judicial system and the findings of that court and that jury? Huh?
Here's a disgusting story that is recent. This fetus was 7months and the murder is only being charged with the death of the mother.
37 states have a “fetal homicide” law. 24 of these state laws define a fetus as a person and a separate homicide victim. This gives the fetus legal rights distinct from the woman who was attacked.
I don't believe that the laws are as contradictory as you might think. If you compare a state laws on abortion with those on fetal murder, you'll find a great deal of consistency (based on medical fact) within each state though the laws may vary from state to state. As for that variance, I think you inadvertently answered the why. Belief! When human life begins is a matter of belief, religious belief. No one can say with medical/scientific certainty when human life begins — at fertilization? at conception (i.e., successful implantation in the wall of the uterus)? when the fetus becomes viable outside the womb? on exiting the womb? at first breath? There simply is no medical or scientific certainty as to when human life begins. According to the Bible, the arbiter of belief for many believers, man did not become "a living soul" until after he had been formed of the dust, and after G_d breathed the "breath of life" into his nostrils. (Genesis 2:7.) So, when does human life begin? I won't ask you to tell me, because it's a question of religious belief and I do not necessarily share your religious beliefs. I won't impose my beliefs on you; so, please, don't to try to impose your beliefs on me. We may, however, share a state of residence and it's in the laws of that state that we will find at least some basic level of agreement.
Fetus means fetus - get your head out of the book written by people who thought the earth was flat and pick up a ninth grade biology book.
You people are destroying America and the majority of us have had enough.
I believe that when the seed is planted and growth starts then it is a human. It's not a monkey or a fish or a bunch of slimey gooey stuff; It is the science that is a human. If a women is murdered when she is two weeks pregnant, regardless of the laws; The autopsy never reads that she had some unidentifiable goopey growth in her stomach. It says that she was pregnant. That's because it was an identifiable human inside of her.
An unborn baby is not a human being. There's no such thing as an unborn baby. There are fetuses and there are babies.
And no, there is no such thing legally as an unborn baby, and all your posturing to the contrary does not make it so.
Once again, you call a horse's tail a leg and claim you are the owner of a five-legged horse.
Or why don't we just call a fetus a burrito.
Here's a made in the USA definition of FETUS for you:
http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/fetus
I tell the men the same as the women. What else would one say?
Really? What kind of being is it, then? A salamander? An alligator? A panda?
We are all 100% human from the moment of conception. (Even ex-NOW president and ardent pro-choicer Patricia Ireland admitted just a few days ago that life begins at conception. And she added, (I'm paraphrasing) "And I think there's no doubt about that.")
"Fetus" "Baby" etc. These are just different terms for humans at different stages of development.
Although, I'm gonna have to add Sea Monkey to the list.
Pat, I suggest you turn to your sister anti-choicers, the ones who have *gotten* abortions (they are probably all around you), and ask them.
We are not arguing what you "think" should or should not be lawful. We are talking about what is lawful. What Tiller practiced was lawful in Witchita even if you don't "think" so.
"You can call them 'abortion providers' all day long and it will never change the fact that these doctors and mothers as well are indeed murderers."
I like your thought process. I just wish more conservatives, especially those elected in DC, had the you know what to say it. I think it would be a great platform to run on, "If you had an abortion you should be arrested for murder, if you are pro choice, you should be charged with accessory after the fact".
"So you tell me? Is the unborn child a human or not. Our lawmakers certainly don't seem to be able to make up their minds."
I celebrate birthdays, not conception days. You know the day you were conceived or the day you were born? A fetus is human but I think a woman has the choice to give birth. I prefer abortions be rare and safe. The killing of Tilelr made abortions much less safe and nothing has made them rare as they need to be. However, Democratic programs limit the number of unwanted pregnancies. Check up the stats. Less abortions in America in any year under Clinton than under Bush I.
Shouting does not confer truth upon a series of lies. And shamelessly calling aborted fetuses "murdered children" does not make them so. That's called an "appeal to emotion," and it is one of the right wing's most used logical fallacies. The fact that it is a lie also puts it high in the pantheon of wingnut tactics.
Here's a question for you. How many legs does a horse have, if you call a tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg does not make it one.
hmm ... like waterboarding ... Bush gets away with it because the fanatics say "It's not torture" or "It was legal" ...
This Sheep Bleepn abortion law was the result of lobbyists with money manipulating the system like always. Part of the loop hole in this filthy law that you support, which includes partial birth abortion, says that as long as the head is still in the mother then it is not murder. That's a rediculous and heartless justification that was created by filthy lawyers. Also it states that there must be a secondary diagnosis by another Dr. Therefore Tiller gets his second sign off from people such as his abortion buddy Warren Hern.
If Tiller was only performing the small amounts of Late term abortions that would otherwise result in the mother's death, then how was he making over $1million per year? If this isn't taking the life of a human then why do the mothers get counceling? And why does Tiller offer a memorial photo session with the dead baby? Which has been proven by the photos of Tiller's victim, Baby Tess.
Tiller would induce labor then suck the feet out of the womb. Then Tiller would pierce a hole in the babie's skull; Crush it and suck out the brain.
Within the first six weeks of a pregnancy, the fetus(developing HUMAN) has a heartbeep and is already sucking its thumb and playing with its toes. And you think a written law is going to make me believe that a fetus isn't alive.
Sincerely,
Pro Life/ Pro Choice for the voiceless fetus
Abortion is legal, killing babies is not legal. Fact.
1) There is no comparison to Olbermann's words to that of the Fox-Noise crew!
Why? you ask... because Olbermann's words are backed by something your right-wing addled brain does not seem to comprehend... FACTS!!
I'm curious... what exactly is your point anyways? That Olbermann is trying to incite the American people to rise up and finally pay attention?
2) While it is tempting to say that Boehlert and MMfA are crazy for trying to link Fox as culpable to the domestic terrorist act of murdering Dr. Tiller... just watching the full context video of the Fox-Noise crew is enough to prove that.
BTW, Bush didn't CAUSE the death of anything. The terrorists who shot, blew up, cut off the heads of, and tortured our brave soldiers did the killing. You want to make comparisons between this and abortion? Bush didn't physically kill anyone, Tillery did. That being said, I don't condone what happened to Tillery. The people who killed Tillery are just as bas as the terrorists who killed our soldiers.
2. If Bush hadn't gotten us into a war under false prentenses, then "3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors" would nto have died in said war.
See the logic?
2. If Bush hadn't gotten us into a war under false pretenses, then "3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors" would not have died in said war.
See the logic?
I hate not having spell check
Olbermann did not use violent speech. O'Reilly did. Repeatedly.
Again I ask, why do you think O'Reilly has dropped caller Tiller a "baby killer" since he was assassinated?
Bill O'Reilly's and Fox News' lawyers told him to stop calling Dr. Tiller a "baby killer". They have OK'ed his use of "destroyed fetuses" but told Bill explicitly to stop it with the "baby killer" talk. Bill O'Reilly answers to a higher, lawyerly calling. God bless him.
This is NOT a hypothetical issue, it's real!! People who are doing their freaking job are being killed because some nuts doesn't agree with what they do!!
You're entitled to YOUR opinion on abortion, it's just YOUR opinion, period!!!
The folks who hate America don't sound any different than you anti-choice folks.
The terrorists (anti-choice folks) hate America (abortions) and they don't like (the fact that abortion is legal) our way of life. The terrorists (anti-choice folks) think that their way of living (anti-choice) is the only way and they'll do anything to make that happen (bomb clinics, shot and murder doctors and nurses).
And for the LAST d*mn time, Dr. Tiller DID NOT KILL ANYONE, women went to him by CHOICE!!!!!
Wow, a little angry are we? Guess what.....you can stand behind the "choice" word all you want, but this doctor killed those babies, although he didn't deserve to be murdered because of it. You stand behind the "choice" to kill your own babies, yet you stand against the oil company's "choice" to drill whever they want for oil, or the car manufacturer's "choice" to make cars with fuel efficiency below 39 mpg, or the voter's "choice" to decide whether gay marriage is legal in their State. That's right.....you only fight for your freedoms when they fit into your little vision of the perfect society.
In a late term abortion, you start with a fully formed baby and when it is over, the baby is dead. You can use the word fetus if you want to make yourself sleep better at night, but it is a baby. You folks like to talk about facts......those are the facts. The woman in the scenario is just as much of a low-life as the doctor is and is just as guilty when it is all said and done and the baby is lying there lifeless.
Why do you suppose Bill O'Reilly now refrains from calling a fetus a "baby"?
Tell you what. I invite you to take a look at Andrew Sullivan's blog over at the Atlantic. Read the "It's so personal" posts that he has put up from readers writing in about late-term abortions.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/
And here's some facts for you. Late-term abortion is less than 1% of all abortions performed in the U.S. 99% of THOSE are from women who fully intended to bring the child to term. I mean, we're talking in the 7th or 8th month of pregnancy. These women wanted these babies, but an ultrasound may have told them that the child will have a short painful life, and there's nothing they can do about it. Many other examples exist, Just read Sullivan's blog. What would you do? Bring the child to term, so that it can live the 10 minutes outside the womb that the doctor predicted? Or end the pregnancy early and avoid a myriad of complications and possibly save your own life (if you're the mother)?
These aren't easy questions, and breaking the "facts" down to "The woman in the scenario is just as much of a low-life as the doctor is and is just as guilty when it is all said and done and the baby is lying there lifeless" is disingenuous, wrong, and cheapens the debate.
You keep forgetting that the doctor's are not standing on some street corner, begging women to visit their clinics! Women CHOOSE to visit doctors like Tiller.
I'll skip your oil company/cars comparison, they don't deserve a response.
I sincerely hope you NEVER find yourself hoping and praying for a child that you find out, way too late, will never live. That you can accept and understand if your wife or girlfriend decides it's to heartbreaking, painful and cruel to continue a pregnancy that has no chance of life. I hope, even though I think you wrong, you NEVER have to walk a mile in the shoes of the many families who have faced such a scenario.
Having a late-term abortions is a painful decision for anyone to make and your opinions should not matter.
Ah, you need it spelled out in simple terms for you to understand?
The definition of terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ...
Radical, right wing extremist anti choice people: Bombing, shooting and murdering physicians for providing a legal service, abortion, that they hate.
Radical Islamic extremists: bombing, shooting and flying planes into building because of hatred of America.
Is that simple enough for you?
Not all anti-choice people are terrorist, but you cannot deny that the ones who are radical extremists, operate no different than the folks who hate America.
Abortion is LEGAL and whether you like it or not, and terrorism is NOT the way to stop it!!
when he hates the same people you do"
- George Bernard Shaw
Because IF you're suppose to be such a God fearing Christian who is sooo concerned about Dr. Tiller's is killing babies, you'd know that ONE of the commandments says you shall not kill!!!! and THAT means YOU TOO!!!
And in case that doesn't work for you:
Romans 12:19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Thou shall not kill is supposed to apply to everyone and not with an exception for women and doctors.
1. You completely ignore the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
2. You ignore the fact that the Bush administration took the US into a war without actually declaring a war (I seem to remember a number of German Government officials were actually tried and hanged because of similar actions).
3. Ummm - your soldiers weren't in Iraq for a party, mate, they were there to kill people and overthrow a government (admittedly a corrupt and useless one). Also, torture was enacted at Abu Ghraib by soldiers who had been given the go ahead through a chain of command that started with Bush and Cheney. At least one murder happened there, and there was certainly plenty of torture. These are war crimes, and ex-President Bush, VP Cheney et al are guilty of them.
Because, uh, it tells us nothing about the medical condition of the mother or fetus. And a court ruled that O'Reilly's accusations were wrong.
>>Oh, and by the way, here is a piece of an article/commentary from Keith Olberman for your viewing pleasure. You're correct, I can't find ANY hateful rhetoric in these words! I didn't have to look hard for this.
Until you come up with a quote about "recruiter the killer" or an example of Olbermann sending his stalkerazzi to tell the audience where to find him all you have is the usual pathetic diversion.
No hateful rhetoric I can see. All true. Not calling Bush a killer or a murderer. Did he accuse Bush of KILLING those men or being responsible for their deaths. You CAN see the difference right? Your post was weak. It didnt even come close to doing what you thought you were doing showing a false equivalence between Beck who is both a moron and mentally unstable and Olberman who isnt.
Yes......yes he did.
Insofar as we are talking about Media Matters, yes he did pull it from an ass.
Nice try, though.
Again, where did Olberman accuse Bush of "KILLING those men?"
O'Reilly accused Dr Tiller of killing babies!
It's hard to understand how you can't understand this.
To answer your ?'s aboout Olbermann...? Those are all TRUE. What's more they were said about a PUBLIC FIGURE. Dr. Tiller was NOT a public figure. That makes a big difference. The Media is SUPPOSED to call out the PRESIDENT. They are NOT suppooed to encorage vendetta's against PRIVATE CITIZENS.
If you can't tell the diffference, you're either an idiot or a child. This should not have to be spelled out to an educated adult.
If, for example, a pregnant woman says she has a baby, you would probably answer, "Oh, you're going to have two!" It would never occur to you that she hasn't given birth to any children and was referring to what's in her womb, because that's just not what "baby" means in English.
2. Accusing somebody in a position of high responsibility and power of doing a lot of wrong and destructive things is not hate rhetoric. Not one thing in Olbermann's screed says anything PERSONAL about Bush, nor does it call names. It accuses Bush of misusing his power. Since when do people have a right to exercise enormous power and then not be criticized for that exercise?
Not to long ago Bobby Cutts was charged with the murder of the baby his girlfriend was carrying and there are many states that have similar laws.
Abortion is a legal medical procedure wherein a fetus is removed from a woman's body, so it's not killing a baby to have an abortion.
That change in the law doesn't change that a fetus isn't the same as a baby.
.http://www.lifenews.com/state1636.html
The fact that a woman says "the baby is kicking" only shows subjectivity. She sees it as a baby because she has an attachment to it and plans on giving birth. Objectively, it's a fetus.
That doesn't change the fact that while the fetus is inside the woman's body, it's a fetus. It's not a baby until it is born.
It's not.Nobody said it was.Thanks for showing your confusion in the first line of your post,that allows sane people to ship the rest, really saves some time.
I'm not sure where you're seeing agreement, JP. I've never heard of anybody simultaneously performing abortions and killing babies. Sounds like a real multi-tasker.
If you can find me any credible account of a person aborting a fetus and murdering an infant at the same time, I'll take you off the crazy list.
The examples you gave for Olbermann are not hate rhetoric.
Hate rhetoric from Olbermann would be something like this: "I accuse you, Mr. Bush, of lying this country into war and personally slaughtering thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's in order to line your own pockets and the pockets of Dick Cheney. You slaughtered our troops for your own gain."
Of course, Olbermann never said anything close to this.
There is a difference between extremely inflammatory rhetoric and strong criticism.
I believe there is a major difference between what was said about POTUS and the physician. The physician was a private doctor, working, dealing with confidential medical matters, he was not an elected official making policy.
I'll explain (it must be hard to get along with just a 3rd grade education).
Fetuses are fetuses - that is both the legal and biological term. You are undoubtedly a man so this issue is really not your concern unless you have prevented an abortion by adopting an unwanted child - who at that point would actually BE a baby. Of course you may be gay which presents other concerns. Abortion is legal.
Keith's quotes are famous for hyperbole (exaggeration) - this list - unlike your buddies' at Faux News does not foment violence which leads to murder. You missed the boat on this one.
And sorry, dopey. A fetus, that can't live on it's own, isn't a baby. It isn't. By our laws, it isn't. And O'Lielly said this guy would do this for any reason at all. That's a lie. Not a matter of interpretation, A LIE. By and large, he did abortions for people that had heartbreakingly terrible things wrong with their feti, and did work that only three people in the country were willing to do, and he did it out of the goodness of his heart, and you're a moron. Get your head out of your butt, and actually research Dr. Stiller. Then, shoot off your mouth.
First, he never killed a baby. He was performing abortions. You're lying when you say otherwise.
Second, there is a big difference between the hateful language used by Fox and what you posted from Olbermann. Olbermann accused Bush and co. of lying and subverting the Constitution. In case you've forgotten, look up the Patriot Act, remember Bush's "Free Speech Zones," how he said that the U.S. didn't torture, the lies that lead us into war in Iraq, the lies about Valerie Plame and how they revealed her as a CIA operative, and habeas corpus laws (just to start).
O'Reilly, etc., routinely claimed that Tiller "murdered" babies at the whim of the mother. They were lying. They knew it then and you know it now.
Your post shows exactly how weak your claims to the contrary really are; you just proved Boehlert's point.
O`Reilly caused the death of this man, period..
You always find the greatest graphics
Also, your comment: "Propaganda doesn't effect [sic] any body with a little better than average common sense" is, frankly, nonsensical. Propaganda affects all of us, every day. The distinctions between propaganda and mass media are blurry at best, but I think we can confidently say that all of us are swayed by convincing arguments. Whether these are propaganda or not is a matter of perspective.
The "ape-like meme" you mention is Standard operating procedure for MMFA. propaganda doesn't affect me. I'm sorry you cn't spot it.
You're like Dick Cheney when he claimed simultaneously that we didn't waterboard detainees, and that waterboarding the detainees was done because it was necessary.
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn - Definition in context
propaganda...information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation----
I would say you are due for a remedial couse in English.
I am not surprised that you don't know that, because you spout propaganda on this site in every post you make, and you don't recognize it as such.
There is a psychological effect as a result. Have you never listened to a pundit and thought "That's exactly what I was thinking!"? That's reinforcement. Do you really believe that there's no difference in whether someone with violent thoughts or tendencies has their views reinforced in the public dialogue or not?
And at the same time, you defend the actions of a man like tiller. So in your world, aborting babies who could survive outside the mother is fine, and Bill O'Reilly is just like Hitler, who murdered millions. Wow. What color is the sky in your world?
The MD that examined Tiller's records, subpoenad by the state of Kansas, said that he was abusing the law.
Just thought I'd correct your propaganda for you.
The quack MD that examined Dr. Tiller's records also said:
McHugh is the man whose report to the court in one case stated that a defendant's harassing phone calls were not obscene - including the call that detailed a fantasy of a 4-year-old sex slave locked in a dog cage and fed human waste. At least eight men have been convicted of sexually abusing Maryland children while under treatment at the sex disorders clinic McHugh runs at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine - abuse the doctors did not report, citing client confidentiality. When Maryland law was changed to require that doctors report child molestation, the clinic fought it and advised patients on how to get around the law. The memo to patients suggested that molesters report their pedophilic activities to their lawyers, who could in turn tell staff; attorney-client privilege would then protect the molesters from being reported. This memo was fully approved by the boss - Dr. Paul McHugh http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/09/20/ED175849.DTL
Dr. Paul McHugh, once said Johns Hopkins' Sexual Disorders Clinic, which treats molesters, was justified in concealing multiple incidents of child rape and fondling to police, despite a state law requiring staffers to report them.
"We did what we thought was appropriate," said Dr. McHugh, then director of Hopkins' Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, which oversaw the sex clinic. He agreed with his subordinate, clinic head Fred Berlin, who broke the then-new child sexual abuse law on the grounds that it might keep child molesters from seeking treatment.
This is what I find weird. They seem to be simultaneously saying that O'Reilly, et al are not inciting violence and that Olberman and Maddow are just as bad. Which is it? How can you say that Olberman is just as bad as O'Reilly if you claim that O'Reilly isn't bad at all?
So you tell me? Is the unborn child a human or not. Our lawmakers certainly don't seem to be able to make up their minds.
btw Our honorable brothers and sisters who have fallen in the line of duty chose to become the heros of our nation. They died with honor and dignity and it is a great loss for our country while at the same time being a great source of pride that has been shown by these fallen Americans. Murdered children however are a shameful commentary in our nation's history.
Agreed. And just because something is illegal does not automatically make it immoral or unethical. Where we seem to disagree is whether abortion is immoral or unethical. I do not think it is immoral to have an abortion, nor unethical to perform one. A fetus is, indeed, not a kidney. Nor is it a baby. It is a fetus.
You can call them 'abortion providers' all day long and it will never change the fact that these doctors and mothers as well are indeed murderers. patpathos
No, they are not. They have not killed a person. They have had/performed an abortion. When the fetus becomes a baby (when it is born, alive), then it it becomes a person. This is the source of our fundamental disagreement, not whether the law creates morality.
But he isn't the person who is responsible for Tiller's assassin.
People who commit these acts aren't casual viewers of O'Reilly and Beck - they live deep in the paraniod right, and nurse their grudges daily for years, feeding on much more powerful and unhinged rhetoric than O'Reilly's.
I doubt that O'Reilly influenced this guy in the slightest. Savage, maybe, since he seems to have a much more radical audience, but still there is hardly a direct connection.
The best you can argue is that, perhaps, the escalation of rhetoric on the right gives radical groups some cover, leads to more acceptance among the moderate right, and affirms the paranoia of their members. This is bad, and should be condemned, but there is no direct causation between O'Reilly and right wing terrorists.
Whether O'Reilly spouts like this or not, the radical right will remain, and they will increase in radicalism because they are have no one in power in the government to even give lip service to their causes.
When you refer to someone as a baby killer and tout the imminent danger to little babies he represents and he gets killed you have few options. You can say either "Thank god someone killed him" OR you say: "My God, I feel horrible about the things I said that may have contributed to his murder." You can NOT say "I had nothing to do with it and I don't condone violence."
The simple fact remains if it were not for O'Reilly and other pundits like him, "NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOW WHO TILLER WAS AND LIKELY NO ONE WOULD HAVE KILLED HIM!!!" I hope that the Tiller family sues Fox News in Civil Court making that very argument and I hope that they win because the violent, hateful rhetoric spewed on Fox News has nothing to do with the first amendment.
THEY DID NOT ARGUE AGAINST ABORTION! THEY DID NOT URGE PEOPLE TO VOTE A CERTAIN WAY! THEY DID NOT CRITICIZE A COURT DECISION! THEY DEMONIZED A PRIVATE CITIZEN WHO, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, WAS FOLLOWING THEIR OWN MORAL COMPASS WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE LAW!
That is your statement and it is BS. Tiller's clinic was first bombed in 1986, 10 years before thr Fox News Channel even existed.
While I agree that diogenie's statement is inherently false, there is something to be said about the Reagan revolution and the rise to prominence of evangelical conservatives that have nurtured the more radicalized right-wing sentiments. Sure, his statement is BS, because abortion clinics have been targeted since Roe vs. Wade, but inflammatory rhetoric only gets you an inflamed audience.
Look at people like Jeanine Garafolo, who recently was calling anyone who attended a Tea Party a racist, who was just against a black president. Certainly an inflammatory position to take and one that could incite a racial backlash in an unbalanced individual. But would Garafolo be to blame if that were to happen. No she would not, unless she called for violence against another. And neither is anyone else.
I would say that "being against a black president" is definitely racist.
Taking "an inflammatory position" (not true, merely your opinion) and saying that "anyone who doesn't stop Dr Tiller has blood on his hands" are two completely different things. And since you know nothing about logical fallacies since you use them all the time, look up "false equivalence."
"The people holding the racist signs were racist, and that included the majority of the teabaggers." - Flat out lie. Show me a picture where most (if any) protesters had racist signs.
"I would say that "being against a black president" is definitely racist." - Wrong. We can't not like the president because he is black? That automatically makes a white person a racist? That would be like saying that every black person who was against any past president was a racist.
"Taking "an inflammatory position" (not true, merely your opinion) and saying that "anyone who doesn't stop Dr Tiller has blood on his hands" are two completely different things. And since you know nothing about logical fallacies since you use them all the time, look up "false equivalence." - Another lie. Show me a quote where someone (anyone!) said "anyone who doesn't stop Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands."
On secont thought, maybe your name does make sense. You ARE an easy to refute nut.
I opposed Tiller and his practice but would not outlaw abortion entirely. There are legitimate reasons why abortion should remain legal. But I strongly oppose late term abortions of viable fetuses unless the mother's health is at stake. Tiller was abusing the law in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. The only MD to examine his records said he was acting illegally. Their was a nurse from Kansas who participated in a discussion a few days ago, she had 30 years experience in the state of Kansas, she also stated that there were plenty of abuses in Kansas. She was immediately branded a liar by some of the people here at this site.
Where is all of that "grey thinking " I have heard so much about from the libs here, I have not seen much evidence of it.
It doesn't.
There was anothere doctor that examined his decisions ,at the time, concurrent with the abortions, with lots more data than Dr McHugh had to examine. And that doctor, who was found in a court of law to be sufficiently independent, didn't disapprove of the late term abortions.
Why are you so disgustingly ridiculing the rulings in a court of law that found that he hadn't done anything wrong? We've already debunked your point that McHugh could make a decision based upon the records he reviewed - that's why he wasn't called into court to testify, because the prosecution would have been laughed out of court.
Oh, and keep up the personal attacks. The last two people who went after me, instead of after my messages, have stopped posting here, and were likely banned because of their behavior. I'd love it if you suffered the same fate, and perhaps were replaced by a person from the right without such a distain for the truth.
And he did hold some radio positions in the earlier years, he hosted a music show for example.
In 1984, Limbaugh returned to radio as a talk show host at KFBK in Sacramento, California, where he replaced Morton Downey, Jr.
Or are you still using WebTV?
i bet O'Reilly still stings from Andrea Mackris suing him -- he doesn't tolerate even the mention of it. He knows, then, that things can be accomplished in civil court that can't be accomplished in criminal court. I hope Dr. Tiller's family is thinking about this, and I know O'Reilly is hoping they aren't thinking about it.
AMEN!!
Compare that to Keith Olbermann, who said "I accuse you of causing in Iraq the needless deaths of 3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors." Is this a statement that can be seen as a call to action to murder? No. Is this saying bush actually committed 3,585 murders? No.
What it IS saying is that by taking unilateral action in launching a fraudulent war in Iraq, based on information that was obtained from torture, which is always suspect, was proven wrong, and therefore, this war is based on lies, (why else had the bush Administration shifted the reasons for the war so many times?) it could be considered illegal. If Bush and Cheny had done due dilligence in their investigations, adhering to the LETTER OF THE LAW, they might not have launched the war in Iraq, causing those deaths. If they had not, and concentrated all their efforts on Bin Laden, and not Saddam, Bush might have been seen in a better light than he is.
People say all sorts of things about the President, throughout the world. It doesn't make it right, but it is the fact. He has the secret service to protect him, at our expense, and the press (theoretically) and his party to defend his name. Violent rhetoric against a private citizen is much more likely to end in murder.
The American Liberal and all Obamedia Outlets will have more leftt-wing vigilantism to explain
There. That is more accurate. I find it woefully disingenuous that a murdered of the unborn was murdered (which was wrong) and the outrage was overdone but a US Army Soldier was murdered by a Jihadi scum sucker and all of you merely ignored it.
Good work you two-faced sycophants.
There's are multiple reasons that the killing of Dr Tiller got a lot more media attention than did the killing of one soldier and the injuring of another.
The fact that unique and horrific murders of more famous people get much more media attention that do murders of average, unknown folk is not something that you can blame on lefties.
This is not rocket science.
The appropriate response to a law we don't like is to work within the system to get the law overturned, not to kill someone who is operating within the law.
Most folks who have talked about what Dr. Tiller did had no clue. As well they shouldn't. Since, as I stated above, the procedure is a personal decision made between one's doctor and oneself.
I don't know how many times it can be repeated before lunkheads on both sides of the discussion finally get a clue:
1) it's a legal medical procedure, and
2) unless you are a doctor or a pregnant female....
IT'S NONE OF YOUR $%^&*( BUSINESS!!!!!!
Thank you.
First, you seem to insinuate that there is a direct link between the coverage of "Tiller the killer" and his murder....Prove it! Don't try bland insinuation to mislead these easily led people into regurgitating your fallacies.
Second, I noticed you highlighted "right-wing domestic terrorism", yeah, you know what's coming....Pray, explain the lack of interest Obama and his handlers STILL have in explaining his connections with Weatherman Bill Ayers, who is guilty of(oh my GOD!!!) left-wing domestic terrorism which(double Oh my GODDD!!!) killed people... All sarcasm aside, I would really like to know why a sliver thin possibility of a link between Fox and Tillers murderer has produced this much concern when the Ayers link was immediately shelved.
http://tinyurl.com/m7bcdy
The way you wrote it, the first draft was probably in crayon because you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near sharp objects. And, with your intellect, you don't need to be worried about being close to anything sharp.
Their numbers include the Christian White Supremacist militia movement...and all kinds of twisted individuals such as Dr Tiller's murderer. These irrational extremists are convinced...by the likes of Limbaugh, the entire corporate media, GOP and their politicians, Beck, Hannity and company.... that drastic measures are in order and the “right to bear arms” is there for one obvious reason....and they strike!!…hard!!
Many people have been murdered, maimed and had their lives destroyed by them.
The "rank & vile" conservative culture in America is behind them 100%.
The examples of these American homegrown terrorists murderers is long....their work gruesome.
The anti-government anti-tax right-wing conservative GOP media turned David Koresch, child rapist gun-runner police-murderer kidnapper suicidal maniac into a folk hero for his brave stand against the government, Clinton and the "jack-booted thugs" of we call policemen.
This brought him to Tim McVeigh’s attention. This guy was a self-proclaimed conservative right-wing anti-government soldier…..He didn’t acknowledge that he was a murderous lunatic sociopath. He was driven to do what he did by those same people, who never let the Waco issue go…....for one day. McVeigh was convinced action had to be taken. And since he considered himself a soldier….he murdered all those innocent people....whom he was also convinced by Limbaugh & Co were not innocent.
And how about Eric Rudolph...another favorite poster-boy lunatic Christian conservative hero?
Same with the guy who shot three police officers in Pittsburg. He was soldier for the GOP/Christian hate-Obama hate-America treasonous campaign.
Yes, like the Wall Street Journal - they tend to swing Hard-Right, but when does Freedom of Speech become - Dangerous? Most certainly, they are not a person shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.
My biggest complaint is that they appear to deliberately see and sell their viewpoints from - only one vantage point. This would be acceptable as just, truthful and moral is - there was a possibility that a coin had only - one side. However, we all know that no such coin exists - nor any such 'Truth.'
I would think that the blame here resides with the militant - Neo Liberal Left. It is they who have foisted upon us the totalitarianism and Liberal enforced tyranny of - Political Correct. And when Americans are not allowed public venue or forum to express their personal viewpoints (regardless of whom they may offend) for fear of losing jobs, homes or rights - what tends to evolved are explosions - like the ones we are experiencing at present.
I quote the following comment from The Conservative Independent of June 7, 2009:
So widespread is the fear of disarmament following Obama's election, Americans have been flooding gun shops to buy millions of dollars in firearms. And according to records to date, over 1.5 billion rounds of ammunition - since December of 2008.
This is not a healthy 'national vote of confidence' to the election of the - first Black American president.
Allen J. Duffis
Editor
The Conservative Independent
www.conserveind.com
Fox is trying to overturn an election with their rhetoric and the FCC does nothing.
How many innocent people have to die before the FCC controls Fox freedom of speech.
Why is not a single network covering Cheney admitting that there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Obama inherits a war that was not neccessary and FOX blames him on a daily basis for all the problems Americans are having.
FCC please do something.
Black Panther's charges dropped/url]
[url=http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/29/top_stories/doc4a1f42b32c161287079901.txt]Obama appointee's didn't want to go FORWARD with the case
Mr. Jackson was actually a democratic party official. Way to go Barry! Voter fraud and intimidation. This is the CHANGE we are looking for!
Obama appointee's didn't go Forward with case
Ah..no they won't. They are not responsible for any if it.
Good to know.
And yet there extremist rants(I mean opinions) have no impact what so ever? Are they not in the entertainment business? Oh wait that would be a double standard would'nt it?