Mika Brzezinski's "real Americans" elitism
Even after landslide victories for the Democrats in the 2008 and 2006 elections (not to mention the fact that a Democrat has won the popular vote in four of the past five presidential elections), MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski still insists that "real Americans" are conservative. Brzezinski says the fact that she is (nominally) progressive and works in New York makes her claim more credible. In fact, it may explain why she is so wrong. She claims to identify elitism, but she actually displays it.
During Monday's Morning Joe -- where, according to Howard Kurtz, Brzezinski provides liberal balance to former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough -- Brzezinski said of Sarah Palin:
BRZEZINSKI: People were coming to those rallies because they agree with her. Look at the polls out there. Look where people stand on life. Look where real Americans think and you will find -- no -- you will find that in the, you know, god I hate to say it, but in the cities where there are a little bit more liberal elite populations, you are not going to find what is representative of America. And there was a lot more to her than fascination.
That comment prompted a great deal of criticism of Brzezinski, which she dismissed on Wednesday: "If you guys don't understand what I'm saying ... please."
The first problem is that Brzezinski apparently doesn't understand what she was saying. Describing rural conservatives who agree with Palin as the "real Americans" quite obviously implies that progressives, city-dwellers, and those who don't care for Palin are not real Americans. That isn't simply a random, inconsequential poor choice of words. For decades, liberals have been smeared and marginalized by conservatives -- and many journalists -- as insufficiently American, insufficiently patriotic, and insufficiently "normal." Whether or not it was her intention, Brzezinski's comment played into longstanding stereotypes that are as inaccurate as they are mean-spirited.
Even if Brzezinski is somehow unaware of that history -- and it's hard to believe someone who hosts a three-hour television show about politics every day could possibly be unaware of it -- she certainly must be able to understand the problem with suggesting that urban liberals are not "real Americans." After all, it's safe to assume she would never dare say that rural evangelical conservatives are not "real Americans."
But Brzezinski repeatedly defended her comments by asserting that Palin's views are shared by many Americans. Of course they are. Nobody doubts that. Brzezinski wasn't criticized for saying many people agree with Palin; she was criticized for saying real Americans agree with Palin -- and thus implying that if you don't agree with Palin, you aren't a real American. Is it even possible that Brzezinski doesn't understand this?
And Brzezinski's justifications for her comments fail on their own terms as well. She suggests the size of Palin's rallies as a vice presidential candidate establish that her supporters are the real Americans. Even if one were to grant the dubious premise that the size of rallies for political candidates determines such things, Palin never drew 80,000 people to a rally like Barack Obama did.
Brzezinski talks about Palin supporters, rather than urban liberals, being "representative of America." If that's the case, why is Joe Biden's smiling face featured on the vice president's web page? Sarah Palin and John McCain lost -- and lost badly. They lost among Americans as a whole, not just among Zabar's-shopping New Yorkers (who, to be clear, are every bit as "American" as Wal-Mart-shopping Kansans.) They lost in Indiana and in North Carolina. Why is this so difficult for Brzezinski to grasp?
Brzezinski ignores actual election results and says we should "look at the polls." OK. Forty-five percent of Americans have a favorable opinion of Palin. Seventy-two percent have a favorable opinion of Obama. Seventy-two is considerably more than 45, so if Brzezinski is looking for someone popular with a "representative" slice of "real America," it isn't Palin.
As further "evidence" for her contention that real Americans agree with Palin, Brzezinski points to a recent Gallup poll that found more Americans describe themselves as pro-life than pro-choice, apparently unaware of the serious flaws with that poll -- flaws that completely discredit the poll's findings. (Don't take my word for it: Pollster.com's Charles Franklin calls the poll an "outlier.") Brzezinski seems to think that poll results must be taken at face value. Most casual observers of politics understand that is not the case; you would think someone whose job is co-hosting a daily television show about politics would, too.
Brzezinski also pointed to (similarly useless) polling about whether people describe themselves as "liberal" or "conservative." Her reliance on such polling about labels shows how badly out of touch she is. Labels like "liberal" and "conservative" just don't mean much to most people, both because most people don't think in terms of political science nomenclature and because the terms have been twisted and distorted by politicians and the media so much that they've lost much of their value. Poll questions asking people to describe themselves as "pro-life" or "pro-choice" are similarly flawed. Who isn't "pro-life"?
So, yes, Brzezinski can find a (badly flawed) Gallup poll that says more Americans self-identify as "pro-life" than "pro-choice." But that poll confuses more than it clarifies. If Brzezinski focused on what people actually think about abortion rather than lazily relying on a flawed poll about labels in order to justify her contention that most Americans agree with Palin, she would find something quite different. Palin thinks abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape. That position is not only out of the mainstream among all Americans, it was convincingly rejected by voters in South Dakota -- one of the most conservative states in the nation -- just three years ago.
And, yes, Brzezinski can point to polls that show that more people self-identify as conservatives than liberals. Does that mean, as Brzezinski suggests, that most people share Palin's views? No. Most people disagree with Palin about gay rights, about health care, about just about every major issue -- often by huge margins. Yes, a plurality describes themselves -- as Palin does -- as "conservative." But relying as Brzezinski does on such labels is lazy, superficial, and highly misleading. It is astounding to think that someone who covers politics for a living would not understand that.
Finally, Brzezinski -- and her co-host, conservative Joe Scarborough -- seem to think the facts that Brzezinski is nominally a progressive and has spent her entire life in New York and Washington, D.C., not only excuse her slurs against progressives and urbanites, they make her claims about "real Americans" more convincing. In fact, that may well explain why she is so out of touch.
Many people are convinced that their political views are not the majority view and draw comfort from that belief. Particularly since the Nixon years, many conservatives have clung to the belief that they are an oppressed minority, that they alone see things as they are while the rest of country goes astray, and have clung to that belief even when winning elections and controlling the government. By exaggerating the depravity of the rest of the nation, they get to feel their own views are righteous.
Likewise, there are some who like to think of themselves as more liberal than they are and the nation as more conservative than it is. By exaggerating the nation's conservatism, they get to feel more "enlightened" than the rest of the country.
And for the many national journalists who seem to possess this trait, there is an added bonus: They also get to believe that they are more aware of what real Americans think than their fellow coastal liberals. When they describe people like themselves -- as Brzezinski did this week -- as elites, they give the game away: They like to think of themselves as the elite. (That's the unmistakable implication of much of what you hear from the media about "coastal elites." When a Candy Crowley suggests that simple Iowans don't know what green tea is, the subtext is that they aren't as worldly as she is.)
This is a key reason why reporters who may personally lean slightly to the left are so often responsible for news reports and commentary that advance conservative frames: they simply misunderstand where most Americans are, relative to their own views, and that misperception skews their reporting. Brzezinski's comments this week about "real Americans" -- and particularly her defenses of those comments -- seem to be a prime example.
















On the other hand, it may well be that she's just talking out of her ass again.
"Brzezinski's comment played into longstanding stereotypes that are as inaccurate as they are mean-spirited."
That one made me laugh so hard I almost spit out my drink. He is crying about mean-spirited? Give me a break. Seventy Five percent of the "progressives" here can not mention the republican party with out a nazi reference.
Then he says that most American's don't define themselves by party, but if any talk show does not have 100 "progressives" on the panel, MMFA cries bias.
The dems won, I get it. But history shows us even when the Dems win, they can never keep it. Conservatives will be back, and it wont be long. Pelosi, Frank, and Reid have never been consensus builders. Another Republican Revolution is on its way.
The voters made their choice and it wasn't your side. For six months they've been attacking the president and now they've come full circle and are referring to themselves as the "real" Americans again.
So they are going around in circles, and each time they do, they make a revolution. So I guess you're right.
Media Matters and posters here complain when there's not a fair balance. When Bush was in office, Sunday morning talk shows had many more people from the right on as commentators. Supposedly that was because a Republican was in office. We are still seeing lots of Republicans as commentators, many more than what we would see if the tables were simply turned.
Talk shows should have reasonable debate from both sides. You're lying when you make accusations like this, because you are trying to derail the conversation.
Please do not feed the troll.
Hey, I think I won!
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Now that I've had my laugh at your stupidity and dishonesty let me clarify something: You right-wing rabble are nothing like the Nazis. As foul and arguably evil as they were, they also were powerful and disiplined in their ignominy.
The reality of the right-wing is closer to what Lenin refered to as useful idiots or what Karl Marx called the lumpenproletariat. Only in your case it's more accurate to change those to useless idiot and lumpen- trolletariat.
by Obama '12 (July 10, 2009 10:21 pm ET) 2 Can we please get these people to stop promoting domestic terrorism? Why do these crazy Nazis have a major platform? Obama's assassination is a mortal lock if this is allowed to continue.
by harley (3 hours ago) This is quite reassuring though. It's just more proof that the reich-wingers are still desperate, failing, and have zero chance of regaining the White House in 2012 and any seats in 2010. The GOPigs are a permanent minority for a reason....they have no message, no leaders, and are simpletons.
Yes, failing isn't usually difficult.
Seventy Five percent of the "progressives" here can not mention the republican party with out a nazi reference.
And as backup, you copy two out-of-context comments with no links to show where they came from.If there were only 3 total posters or fewer here, your two examples would exceed 75%, assuming they were valid as referring to the GOP in general.
I happened to see the thread where you got one of them. It was in response to crosshairs being placed over Planned Parenthood's logo on Fox News. Inciting wingnut terrorism against an organization that has already experienced its share of right wing violence, promoted by a propaganda organization that has furiously denied any accountability for its role in recent acts of terror by right wing nuts.
I'm not sure that you're being dishonest. It's possible your brain has been turned to oatmeal by years of GOP Propaganda.
Nazi Nazi Nazi. There's another example you can use, stooge.
And if he's on my DNR List, then I'm going to have to start responding to the Nazi, Barney again too.
In any case, just reading his whiney comments make me want to go suck on my tail pipe.
If you ever need a reference, feel free to have 'em give me a call.
Give me a break. Seventy Five percent of the "progressives" here can not mention the republican party with out a nazi reference.
If you cant make a point without lying then you dont have a point. You are just trolling. Just making outrageous and ludicrous insults for the provocation value.
Now THIS was just dumb
But history shows us even when the Dems win, they can never keep it.
History shows no such thing. For about 40 years from Roosevelt Dems dominated the political landscape. You just say whatever floats to the top of your head dont you? Whether it even makes sense doesnt mean anything to you.
And according to jtragos above, the nazi's were only "arguably evil" You guys never fail.
Oh and Solon, the dems really kept a lock on things during the Clinton when they owned everything. I am glad you have 60 in the senate now. When you Still fail to get things done, it will open the floodgates once again for the republicans.
So lets do a quick recount. Exactly what has Obama gotten done so far.
[*] The Economy. A failed stimulus
[*] Gay marriage and rights. Nothing
[*] Iraq. Nothing
[*] Biden admits they miss-read the economy
[*] Unemployment heading towards Carter levels.
Cant wait to see what you guys do with control of the senate.
He and his people can not even agree on the first or second stimulus.
More like a failed, premature RW talking point.
You can thank conservtaive obstruction for this and pretty much every other area that social progress is stalled.
Are you an idiot? We're on our way out, moron! Just becuase he's not "cutting and running" or "withdrawing percipitously" like YOU LOT said he would, doesn't mean he's not doing EXACTLY what he said he would. You lot just weren't listeneing to anything besides the voices in your heads.
Yeah, he couldn't believe the Republicans had screwed it up THIS badly.
See above.
Your own post has the word "nazi" in it! That's a nazi reference. HA!
And what happened after that 40 years? They didn't keep it, or it would be more than 40 years. Thanks for proving my point.
That was fun.
5 1
That's because being reichpublican means never having to say you're sorry...
Well, as long as you're gonna confirm it, sport, there's no need to mention the connection. That's very thoughtful of you.
I've got news for ya, pal. The country is changing. Even if folks didn't know how disastrous he'd be, Reagan couldn't get elected today. The ignorant-trash scum vote continues to slide into the abyss that is the dustbin of history.
Safe home.
Now it's just up to Obama to be a 21st Century FDR and get us out of this most recent gop-slime mess.
Now it's just up to Obama to be a 21st Century FDR and get us out of this most recent gop-slime mess.
Obama as the next FDR....that is funny.
He probably can't help it, he thinks what he posted is true. Psychosis is very hard to deal with. Perhaps we should stop feeding the troll.
He just happened to be in office when the Soviet Union collapsed from its internal failures. People not relying on the CIA's lousy intelligence and the Defense Department's money-sucking hype could see it coming, as indicated by the Soviet dissident Andrei Amalrik's 1969 treatise, "Will the Soviet Union Survive Until 1984?" He was off by seven years, but he could see it was a matter of time.
Meanwhile, the same people who swear St. Ronnie won the Cold War by "forcing" the USSR to spend way more than they could afford on their military are the most vocal in insisting that the US should also spend way more than it can afford on its military. So where exactly is this supposed to get us?
Peddle that Reagan the hero saint nonsense somewhere where it might be appreciated. If you want to credit Reagan you'll have to admit that he nearly bankrupted our economy with military spending increases that the soviets tried to match. Their economy collapsed before ours did. Their military was also severely weakened by it's war in Afghanistan.
Liberal kool aid? Even a gallon of conservative mouthwash can't erase all the bad odors that Saint Ronald left behind.
That is a pretty ridiculous statement. Is that really your argument for the conservative parties relevance and popularity? That one party out of a multi party democratic government hasn't held complete control? Awesome...
"Seventy Five percent of the "progressives" here can not mention the republican party with out a nazi reference."
And 83.7% of statistcis are made up on the spot. It's seems just as likely these days that Obama is called a fascist. Absurd not just because it's an aeageration, but one that 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
Then he says that most American's don't define themselves by party, but if any talk show does not have 100 "progressives" on the panel, MMFA cries bias.
Um... more like when they don't have a SINGLE ONE, or the one they have is an ineffectual, imasculated token like Alan Colmes.
The dems won, I get it. But history shows us even when the Dems win, they can never keep it. Conservatives will be back, and it wont be long.
Um... history shows that NO party can hold onto the majority for 'very long.' And when the conservtaives DO come back, you can bet they'll look pretty liberal when compared to the con's that just lost.
That's how it goes. It's how it has alwasy gone. Conservtaives finally get around to embracing the progress made by the liberals of the LAST generation, and yet time just keeps moving on without them.
BTW, couldn't agree more, she must be SUCH a disappointment to her father.
Yes, I really think her role just may be to fulfill a sterotype that conservatives have about liberal elites, thus encouraging them in what was already their strong tendency to discount liberal or progressive ideas. The media narrative seems to require this.
-Annette Bening, The American President
I didn't really understand what that meant the first time I saw the movie. Now, I understand it better every day.
The narrative of the GOP and the entire psuedo-religious modern conservatism is quite simple...the "left" (whatever that is) is responsible for everything bad in history EVER.
When will the conservative elites ever admit THEY LOST??
Or is that just a fundamental part of their dysfuntion: NEVER admit that you were WRONG!?
Joe remains lying gop-slime and Mika remains shallow and superficial in all things as evidenced by her continuing palin fixation. She certainly ain't smashin' any dumb-blond stereotypes.
Joes' gop-slime credentials are as obvious as they are impeccable.
Apart from her last name, what exactly are Mika's credentials to do anything but make silly remarks on TV.
She's Elizabeth Hasselback with a famous father.
The biggest myth is about the east coast 'elites' and the rest of us.
I never have heard anyone talking about those people on the coast or dissing them, ect., To us New York seems like a cool city to visit and probably somewhat like chicago. Washington is our capital that would be cool to go and see the sites.
We don't sit around trashing them. Even the republicans don't think anything one way or another about the coast or that they are 'elites' blah blah blah.
I also know most people don't think Palin is all that. Universal reaction to her is yawn and get her away from the camera.
You see, outside of pockets in the midwest, most people are very independent and pride themselves on not fitting into any box.
So, Mika's comments annoy, irritate and really disgust me.
I know she knows zero of what she is talking about or what we are like or what we think.
I also think most of this is because Mika's woman crush on Palin is embarrassing. Her blind slavishness towards the woman makes Buchanan look like he cannot stand Palin.
Maybe that should be something you guys can look into doing a column about. Mika's huge woman crush on Palin.
She works for a lazy, superficial and highly misleading network owned by a corporation which has as a goal misleading and misdirecting the public. Yes, Mika said something silly and has refused to incisively reflect on it. Too true.
Here's the problem with MMFA. Bob Somerbywrites today about Rachel Maddow (as he has several times recently) and her disturbing tendency to stay away from real issues. She isn't Fox and Friends, thank the FSM, but where's the critical review of her?
Why don't we just cut to the chase on the "real American" crap. Brzezinski and Scarborough, like all clowns who believe that real 'Murikens live in the "heartland", are Christians. And the city is full of Jews and other "unsavory minorities". It's the same reason Lou Dobbs rails against Mexicans coming into America and not Canadians. You won't find trailer parks with adult age siblings living together in them in the city. What you will find in the city are people who read books, don't mindlessly follow TV preacher/charlatans, and (the scariest part) are of many non-European ancestries.
THAT has always been at the root of the Real 'Murkens nonsense.
But I wonder if he, as a public person, doesn't severely restrict himself in what he says on this subject. I imagine being known must make it awkward to write about the blood and guts of society - the delicate registry of basic assumptions and beliefs so close to home that they can't be seen on casual inspection. I for one have no such encumbrance traveling to America's Forbidden Zone.
My guess, although she doesn't come out and say it, is that the 'real Americans' concept Brzezinski has in mind is not ideologically based but ethnically and religiously determined. Foser doesn't seem to want to face that possibility, at least publicly. He seems to prefer it all be about the less inherently dangerous and less controversial non-bigotry-based philosophical differences. I'd rather that was the reality too. But I can't imagine he doesn't know better. As a reader of this board for years, I know this 'real-American' versus 'non-real-American' dichotomy has been discussed here often and in great detail, long before it caught on with the main-stream media.
I hold no brief for or against Ms. Brzezinski. I'm not a fan or a detractor. I don't watch her show. But wouldn't her father have to have had a keen understanding as to how this country (and many others) really works to have risen to the position he did advising Presidents on how to interact with other nations? And would he not have informally or formally advised his daughter in this regard?
As a public person on a large stage Brzezinski is in the same bind as Mr. Foser. She can't easily say what she may really think. I imagine very few do, save the truly brainwashed or professionally suicidal. So what then are we are left with in this fight between two no-doubt very knowledgeable people? Not much more than the shadows of punches thrown by combatants with hands bound.
But if you're a critic of today's media, your whole job is slumming. Most weeks you're struggling to teach kindergarten to spoiled millionaires throwing food at each other.
There really isn't anything else for MMFA to do. Their home page should just have a big banner across it saying "they're all butt-stupid, isn't it obvious?". Then the writers here can put their towering intellects to good use somewhere else.
It may not allow them to utilize their towering intellects or employ their educations, but somebody's gotta keep these gop-slime swine accountable.
Lord knows, that task ain't gonna perform itself.
They wouldn't want a doctor smarter than them to perform neurosurgery on their kids while rich white trash like shrub is a man of the people and a mixed-race son of a single mother who's earned everything he's ever gotten is the elitist.
There's ignorant and then there's gop ignorant.