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Eric Boehlert
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Wash. Times and Fox News now unleashing mobs on private citizens (including kids)

September 29, 2009 7:23 am ET

Last week, a Washington Times blogger posted a call to arms, beseeching readers to help the newspaper dig up more information regarding a long list of arts organization representatives who took part in a conference call with the White House on August 10. The call was part of a National Endowment for the Arts initiative, and it's a conference call that was secretly taped and has been wildly overhyped in conservative media circles as some sort of linchpin in a larger criminal enterprise being run out of the White House to politicize the arts. (There's no evidence the August 10 conference call broke any laws.)

Still, the Times was asking for help. It wanted readers to search through a spreadsheet it posted that included names of the arts representatives who participated in the NEA conference call. The Times wanted readers to snoop around online -- doing some crowdsourcing -- and find out everything they could about the arts reps.

 In theory, of course, online dirt-digging and sleuthing makes perfect sense and represents a new era of participatory journalism embraced by the Internet. Josh Marshall and his reporting team at Talking Points Memo, for instance, famously used crowdsourcing to track policy positions of members of Congress during the debate over Social Security in 2005. Readers also chipped in and helped rifle through thousands of pages of memos that the Bush White House dumped at a time when the U.S. attorney scandal was widening. Thanks to Marshall's readers, TPM was able to tease out all sorts of interesting news leads.

 Note, however, who the targets of TPM's crowdsourcing were: members of Congress and other major players in the federal government. Marshall urged his readers to monitor politicians and to read through government documents while focusing on people in power who are expected to be held publicly accountable.

But The Washington Times' disturbing call to arms? The paper wanted its readers to find out all they could about private citizens who work at little-known arts organizations and whose only connection to the spotlight was that they were invited to dial in to a conference call.

Times blogger Kerry Picket assured readers, "The people on the call didn't necessarily do anything controversial or wrong." Yet look at the kind of dirt Times readers were urged to dig up about the arts reps. Had they:

  • Been active in Democratic politics?
  • Made any campaign donations recently?
  • Blogged for The Huffington Post?
  • Believed in the 9-11 "Truther" conspiracy theory?

The obvious odor of Red Scare-era snitching that hung over the Times' wrongheaded project was too much to take even for some loyal conservative readers. Wrote one Times reader in the comments section:

As a Republican, this story makes me sick to my stomach. What is this? A witch hunt? McCarthy is back? As someone who lived through that, I am saddened to see the Washington Times engage in this type of behavior. STOP ACTING LIKE THIS. They are private citizens. I am a VERY proud Republican, but this is not who we are.

But increasingly, this is who conservatives have become. They've become a mindless mob, and the right-wing media, more and more often, are sending their overeager foot soldiers out on seek-and-destroy missions involving private citizens. They're even targeting innocent schoolchildren, like the group of second-graders in New Jersey that became a right-wing (mob) object of disgust last week after an old YouTube clip surfaced that showed the students singing a song in honor of the president of the United States. (You're supposed to recoil in horror at the mere suggestion of such a thing happening in America.)

The reason the Times' crowdsourcing bulletin was so misguided, and possibly even dangerous, was that the people the newspaper was urging to go digging for dirt were, by and large, the same type of people who are packing pistols at anti-Obama rallies, parading around with Hitler posters, and claiming the POTUS wasn't born in America. Meaning the right-wing mob, which suddenly decided last week that the NEA represented all that is evil in the world, is not all that stable and should not be setting its crooked sights on private citizens.

Again, original research and citizen journalism are both laudable pursuits. But in the hands of right-wing radicals who exhibit very little common sense and even less common decency, the witch hunts of peripheral players, including now-regular attempts to target children, no longer represent journalism in any recognizable sense. Instead, they're just unsettling -- and dangerous -- attempts at mob rule. They're a way to send a signal that anybody who is even marginally involved in public discourse can suddenly become a target of the mob. And then, all bets are off.

This trend of targeting private citizens is not new. But it has become more pronounced in recent weeks and months, as collective Obama hatred has pushed the GOP Noise Machine to ignore the boundaries of fair play. (Like posting the possibly stolen contents of somebody's Rolodex.)

The growing obsession with singling out children for mob ridicule is especially troubling. Recall in early August, it was an 11-year-old girl who became the object of right-wing taunts after she had the audacity to stand up at an Obama town hall and ask the president a question. Busted! The kid wasn't participating in public democracy. Instead, the mob called her out as a shifty, "in-the-tank questioner."

Fox News quickly channeled the blog attacks and posted this headline [emphasis added]:

White House Says Girl with Campaign Ties Chosen at 'Random' to Speak at Obama Town Hall

Campaign ties? The girl was in elementary school! How could she have had "campaign ties"? The only "tie" was that her mom was an Obama donor and supporter in 2008, a fact quickly discovered when right-wing bloggers began scouring Facebook photos and friends lists, as well as FEC filings, in search of info about the girl's mother, a "political hack." Why? To unmask the girl's "campaign ties," of course.

In other words, her mom did what a few million other Americans did last fall, yet in the eyes of Fox News, Michelle Malkin, and the mob leaders, that suddenly meant the woman's daughter had "campaign ties"? And for right-wing bloggers, that meant the kid was fair game for ridicule? That meant that, of course, she deserved to be mocked as a "leftist plant." (The caped crusaders online never unearthed a single fact suggesting that the young girl was coached on her question or that Obama knew what it would be before he called on her. By "plant," the mob simply meant the schoolgirl was the daughter of a Democrat, as if that were news or even relevant.)

The right wing's latest attack on children was even more astonishing. Fresh off her humiliating claim that 2 million people showed up at the September 12 anti-Obama rally in Washington, D.C., (she was only off by 1.9 million), Malkin urged readers to wallow in disgust over the fact that 18 New Jersey 7-year-olds sang a song in honor of the new president.

Directly and indirectly, the second-graders were attacked as being "creepy," "Obama-worshipping drones" and cultish members of the "Hitler Youth." Why? Because they sang a song during Black History Month that honored the accomplishments of America's first black president. The whole thing was "sick," the hate mob announced.

Why so sick? Because it was just like what Hitler did! (Again with the Hitler fetish from the far-right fever swamp?)

[W]hen those of us who study history see videos like the one below, it chills us to the bone. It is decidedly reminiscent of the indoctrination techniques that took place in 1930s Germany.

That's right: A massive, mandatory, state-run indoctrination initiative implemented by a fascist German dictator was just like when a single school teacher in New Jersey independently, without the slightest involvement from the government, decided to teach second-graders a song about Obama. The comparison is almost too dumb for words. And am I the only one who thought the story would have worked as a pseudo-scandal only if the kids were videotaped singing the praise of another country's president? But in the loopy world of right-wing media, it's disgusting and disgraceful and cultish when kids today sing the praises of the president of the United States.

Welcome to Bizarro World, where patriotic schoolkids are now the enemy.

The whole senseless attack was painfully dumb and misdirected and represented a shocking invasion of the schoolchildren's privacy. But the mob had selected its target, which meant that the conservative media had to play along and hype the tale as incredibly important and potentially dangerous. In a desperate attempt to attach some drama to the story about kids who sang nice things about the president, FoxNews.com posted this ominous headline and subhead:

Elementary School Students Reportedly Taught Songs Praising President Obama: Nearly 20 young children are captured in an online video as they sing songs that overflow with campaign slogans and praise for "Barack Hussein Obama," as they repeatedly chant the president's name and celebrate his accomplishments. [The original headline can be seen in the page's URL.]

"Captured." Like, the little elementary schoolkids were trying to pull a fast one, but the news hounds at Fox busted them good! The comedy was that by "captured," Fox meant some parent or teacher taped the kids and put it on YouTube, like four months ago. But in the hands of Fox, the kids had been captured.

Mob rules, indeed.

But whenever the right wing ignites the crazies, it's no laughing matter. And in the case of the "sick," "creepy" second-graders signing up for duty in the "Hitler Youth," predictably, after much breathless snooping, the name of the offending elementary school was indentified and its phone number was posted online. And just as predictably, threats of violence began to pour in.

According to a Fox News online report:

The tension at B. Bernice Young Elementary School escalated to such a degree Thursday that the school was placed temporarily on lockdown after its principal received death threats over a YouTube video that showed nearly 20 children being taught songs lauding the president, though back-to-school night events continuing as planned Thursday night at the school.

Ironically, the Fox report was quickly scrubbed, and any mention of looming right-wing mob violence was edited out of the news story. Editors at Fox News can erase all the unseemly mentions of death threats they want, but when right-wing mobs online are whipped into a frenzy and sent out to attack private citizens, they always leave a mark.

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    • Author by eweston8542983 (September 29, 2009 10:18 am ET)
      5  
      Haven't heard any revelations of any kind from that stolen rolodex. Is it that hard to get through?
      I'm hoping the american people react in the similar manner to all these attacks as they did to the attacks to Bill Clinton. They, in large numbers ignored the right wing froth.
      The national broadcast media is well on the way to becoming irrelivent to the nation that it supposedly serves.
      The pay and ego stroking from fellow inner circle members is worth it I suppose.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by shaggles (September 29, 2009 11:56 am ET)
        3 2
        In some ways the right wing furor over Clinton helped him.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by goesto11 (September 29, 2009 3:21 pm ET)
          4 1
          Perhaps -- but Clinton was impeached nevertheless.

          Rather than ignore Right Wing froth, perhaps it's best to actively counter it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (September 29, 2009 4:48 pm ET)
            5  
            Bust them in their smarmy lying mouths is the only way to counter them. All this ignore them nonsense just makes them feel like they are intimidating us.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 29, 2009 5:48 pm ET)
            6  
            Rather than ignore Right Wing froth, perhaps it's best to actively counter it

            How do you "counter" ranting from the insane loonies on the right?

            After all, it's not like you folks, only pick and choose certain policies and issues to dislike.

            Especially when you consider the complete silence from the right-wing loonies, when Bush invaded a country that did not attack us.

            Not a peep heard, when Bush LIED and said the intelligence said Iraq and something to do with 9/11.

            You could hear a pin drop, in the halls of right-wing looneyville, as the cost of this preemptive war rose over 686 BILLION dollars (and rising by the second).

            And when the median income for Americans declined 4.2% over the last 8 years?

            "President Obama has to prove he's a US citizen"

            How do you "counter" that kind of craziness?

            Over the last 8 years, the number of POOR Americans jumped to 39.8 million (the largest number in absolute terms since 1960).

            "President Obama is on a apology tour"

            How do you "counter" such craziness?

            Children living in poverty increased over 21% in the last 8 years.

            "President Obama will take away our guns"

            Come on, you cannot "counter" that kind of crazy with facts.

            The number of uninsured Americans increased 20.6% over the last 8 years.

            "President Obama will have death panels to kill the old people".

            This daily/hourly unhinged ranting from the right cannot be "countered" with truth and facts.

            When folks are this insane, they feed on each other's insanity, not common sense and reasoning.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by steeve (September 29, 2009 6:19 pm ET)
              5 1
              It's easy. Defend for 10 words or less, then attack the character of the accusers for 1000 words or more. Teach voters the pattern.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by RRoboduck (September 30, 2009 11:29 am ET)
                6
              Talk about lies you spout out about the last 4 years or 8 years, but what are the real numbers. Until 2 years ago when the democrats took over the house and the senate, America was a record levels of home ownership, lowest unemployment in history, gas was at $2.34 a gallon, and the economy was the best the world has ever experienced. You can rant on about how everything is worse than the numbers of 4 or 8 years ago (which technically you is right) but those damaging number all happened in the last 2 years under democrat control. The last 2 years is when gas spiked up over 4 dollars a gallon which had a dommino efect on everything elso from jobs, insurance, home ownership. If your going to spout out numbers everyone can do thier homework what do your numbers and percentages look like from December of 2007 when the demos took over in january 2008 until now. Wake up and see the truth
              Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (September 30, 2009 2:21 pm ET)
                4  
                There's good reason to believe we'd be in worse shape if the Dems hadn't regained control of the Congress in 2006. And there's definitive reason to believe that the stimulus did much good. There's no reason to believe that any of the problems our economy had were caused by anything Dems did after they regained control of Congress a couple of years ago.

                There's no one blinder than the person who won't see.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 30, 2009 3:59 pm ET)
                4  
                Until 2 years ago when the democrats took over the house and the senate, America was a record levels of home ownership, lowest unemployment in history, gas was at $2.34 a gallon, and the economy was the best the world has ever experienced.

                "It's the Democrats fault, it's the Democratic fault".

                I'm sick of folks like yourself rewriting history!

                Here's the timeline for the housing disaster:

                In 2001 the US Federal Reserve lowered interest rates 11 times, from 6.5% to 1.75%.

                In 2002 annual homes value growth as at it's highest rate since 1980.

                June 17, 2002, Bush set a goal to increase minority home owners by a least 5.5 MILLION by 2010 through BILLIONS of dollars in tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment pf $440 BILLION to establish NeighborWorks America with a faith based organizations.

                2003, Bush signed the American Dream Down-payment Act to be implemented udern the Dept. of Housing and Urban development. The goal was to provide a maximum down payment assistance grant of either $10,000 or 6% of the purchase price of the home, whichever was greater. Bush also committed to reforming the home buying process that would lower closing costs by approx. $700.00 per loan. Bush said it would further stimulate homeownership for all Americans.

                In 2004, homeownershop peaked to an all time high of 69.2%.

                October 2004, the SEC suspends net capital rule for 5 firms, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Bros., Bear Stearns and Morgan Stanley.
                Those firms, freed from government imposed limits on the debt they can assume, levered UP 2, 30 and even 40 to 1.


                From 2004 through 2005, home values in Arizona, Calif., Florida, Hawaii and Nevada increased 25% each year.

                FALL 2005, the housing markets halts abruptly, from the 4th quarter of 2005 to the 1st quarter of 2006, median prices NATIONWIDE DROPPED 3.3%

                The housing market continued a slowdown in 2006. Prices are FLAT, home sales FALL, resulting in an inventory buildup.

                US Home Construction Index is DOWN over 40% as of mid-August 2006 COMPARED to a YEAR earlier.

                THE DEMOCRATS HAD NOT TAKEN CONTROL OF CONGRESS NOR HAD THEY PASSED ANY LEGISLATION!!

                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (September 30, 2009 4:10 pm ET)
                  4  
                  As usual, nice post with facts but it is entirely too long for the nutjobs to read.

                  I prefer a simple explanation. Deregulation led to easily-obtained credit for mortgages which fueled the spending in our consumer-driven economy. That's all fine and dandy when home values continue to rise and people continue to pay their mortgages.

                  It was a house of cards doomed to fail.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by RRoboduck (September 30, 2009 6:39 pm ET)
                    3
                  My we must have short memories when it came to banking regulations and mortgages. Do we not remember I wont mention any names due to being called a racisit or many other names you all come up with, but a community activist organization storming into banks and demanding loans for the very people that could not afford or have the credit for loans on homes and threatend with law suits if the rules were not changed to allow these creative loans to be made in the first place
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 12:09 pm ET)
                    3  
                    Do we not remember
                    No, I don't remember that. You need to either get on or adjust your medication, because you are delusional with a paranoid chaser.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (October 01, 2009 5:46 pm ET)
                    2  
                    My we must have short memories when it came to banking regulations and mortgages

                    Yeah, YOU have NO memory!

                    Phil Gramm, Republican-Texas, Jim Leach, Republican-Iowa and Thomas Bliley Jr., Republican-Virginia created the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, repealing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prohibited ANY ONE institution from acting as any combination of investment bank, a commercial bank and/or an insurance company.
                    Do we not remember I wont mention any names due to being called a racisit or many other names you all come up with but a community activist organization storming into banks and demanding loans for the very people that could not afford or have the credit for loans on homes and threatend with law suits if the rules were not changed to allow these creative loans to be made in the first place.


                    So a community organizatzers have MORE power than the President of the United States?

                    Are YOU smoking crack?

                    June 17, 2002, Bush set a goal to increase minority home owners by a least 5.5 MILLION by 2010 through BILLIONS of dollars in tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment pf $440 BILLION to establish NeighborWorks America with a faith based organizations.

                    2003, Bush signed the American Dream Down-payment Act to be implemented under the Dept. of Housing and Urban development. The goal was to provide a maximum down payment assistance grant of either $10,000 or 6% of the purchase price of the home, whichever was greater. Bush also committed to reforming the home buying process that would lower closing costs by approx. $700.00 per loan. Bush said it would further stimulate homeownership for all Americans.
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by Welfare-Warfare State (October 01, 2009 12:55 pm ET)
                    2
                  Don't you people ever get tired of the whole the democrat-republican squabble? The welfare-warfare state along with thecentralization of power in the federal branch proceeds apace regardless of whether the guy has a D or a R before his name.
                  A great deal of our problems arise from a public/private entity called the Federal Reserve. The banking system is central planned through the Federal Reserve and the FDIC to a large degree. The Federal Reserve cartelizes the banking industry; it is a closed loop. Nowhere else in the economy would we permit such an open cartel arrangement, but I notice that most of you people on the left never question it. You just except the mindless civics book platitudes that the Fed is there to fight inflation and manage the nations money supply. They vreate the damn inflation for christsakes.

                  The Fed is the greatest bubble blowing machine of all time. None of these CDO'S, adjustable rate mortgages, interest only loans, etc. could have happened without the Fed blowing that bubble to begin with. The Fed artificially lowered the interest rate to 1 percent(!) for an entire year and kept them low for a long time afterward. This can only be done by massively increasing the credit money supply. With all that new (nearly free) credit money floating around, is it any wonder that wall street and main street got drunk? The question that needs to be asked is, "who was pouring the alcohol?" Answer: our glorious central planners at the Fed. The Fed and the Federal government through GSE'S like Freddie and Fannie created an incredible amount of moral hazzard. There existed a perception that government would not only bail out individuals but banks as well should their excessive risk taking go bad.
                  None of this could have happened if the Fed hadn't lowered interest rates well below their free market level. Real credit must come from real savings. Our national net savings rate has been negative for years. Interest rates can't possibly be low. The Fed tries to replace real savings with the printing press. The bubble at its inception is fun ,but the real resources don't exist in the economy for all of the new bubble projects. When the new credit money pretends to touch actual capital the prices will unexpectedly rise and uncompleted projects will have to be abandoned while completed bubble projects will likely go under(we saw this with Mr. Greenspan's dot.com bubble as well). This is the inevitable bust. The size of the bubble will be followed by a crash of equal proportion.
                  These idiots at the Fed ( always with the approval of the political class) are trying to blow up a new bubble. But we are at the end of the line for this monetary sytem. They are in the process of destroying our currency. These massive trade imbalances made possible by our reserve currency status are coming due because the world is turning away from the fiat dollar standard.
                  Our monetary system is absurd and our Fed is populated by crackpot inflationists. You guys are asking for more regulations for a sector of the economy that is already heavily regulated. We haven't had a free market in banking. We've had a banking system that is heavily centrally planned for decades. Your Leviathan state caused this!
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by temphandle nanoinstruction12nightgown (September 30, 2009 4:29 pm ET)
                4  
                The policies and actions of the Bush administration were a house-of-cards waiting to fall in on themselves. We did not enter into the present day crisis with all of it's problems without taking the path to get here. Things looked rosy on the outside but it was rotting from the inside out. The Democratic powerbase in Congress in the last two years of the Bush administration was another sham as Republicans had overwhelming filibuster power and used it on all things not Republican and if that was not enough, Bush's veto pen would take out the straggler bills. No, the issues that America is facing today are directly a result of the previous 8 years of the Bush administration and Republican controlled House and Senate. As hard as Republicans try to point their fingers at Democratic policies the more America discovers how little these right-wing extremist, Republicans can ever be trusted or believed. Republicans will not see respectable power in our nation for 30-40 years and than it will be under a different name. We need a reliable balance to the liberal side of America but not from present day Republicans who no longer understand what is right or fair.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by globalRower (September 29, 2009 10:44 am ET)
      6  
      Nazi comparisons. Accusations of propaganda based brain washing. Revisionist history. Activist reporters. Fox news: Pot, kettle.

      The Austrian media is required to run corrections when they make mistakes or misstatements. It would be practical to have that requirement on US broadcasters too - imagine how much less we would hear of Beck/Hannity/Malkin/O'Reilly etc. if they had to broadcast corrections!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by puppienrainbows (September 29, 2009 11:19 am ET)
          8
        They aren't broadcasters, they are on cable.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by wzwriter (September 29, 2009 1:01 pm ET)
          7  
          They aren't broadcasters, they are on cable.

          Wrong again, Puppypoop. They both have radio shows, which makes them BROADCASTERS.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by goesto11 (September 29, 2009 3:24 pm ET)
            5  
            Good point, wzwriter.

            Even so, the distinction between broadcast and cable disappeared 20 years ago. If you're in TV news, you're a broadcaster.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (September 29, 2009 10:47 am ET)
      8  
      Using distortion and misdirection as a political tactic shouldn't be going on as much as it is, but the use and abuse of kids as tools has to stop.

      FoxNews and any other responsible journalist should have known better than to link to or show a videotape without the kids' faces blurred out. They assumed the worst about the video and had a knee-jerk reaction to it.

      They claimed that it was inappropriate for a song to be created about any President, but that's crazy when we're talking about Black History month that fell a couple of weeks after the first Black President was inaugurated!

      The schoolkids sang about Mardi Gras - was that wrong because people get so drunk, typically, on Mardi Gras, and isn't it mostly a holiday for Catholics, since Protestants and other religions (not to mention atheists and agnostics) don't deny themselves during Lent? Why is no one upset about a song celebrating that specific religious holiday? Or celebrating Groundhog Day - that sounds downright pagan!

      These people on the right have too much baggage to be claiming any high ground.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by puppienrainbows (September 29, 2009 11:11 am ET)
        1 10
        This is nothing more than community organizing. Media and political figures organizing groups in a pro-active manner. Had the person who taped the children forced to express how 'yummy' Barack Hussein Obama is, taken steps to ensure the tape did not fall into 'the wrong hands', none of this would have occured.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MiddleLeft (September 29, 2009 11:30 am ET)
          9 1
          This is nothing more than community organizing. Media and political figures organizing groups in a pro-active manner.

          The very same description can be applied to the KKK.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 29, 2009 1:28 pm ET)
          7 1
          Had the person who taped the children forced to express how 'yummy' Barack Hussein Obama is, taken steps to ensure the tape did not fall into 'the wrong hands', none of this would have occured.
          Nope. A parent probably made a video of their kid singing in school and put it on YouTube. Nothing more, no matter how much puppiesandrainbows(I) wants it to be a huge conspiracy.

          In this case, however, "the wrong hands" belonged to ClusterFox News.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by starkcr31 (September 29, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
              8
            Yeah, and how many teachers were forcing their students to sing praise songs for President Bush? None? I've already heard 3 for Obama.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by srichardson (September 29, 2009 3:02 pm ET)
              7  
              How many school are in this country? 3 out of how ever many thousands is not a large number. And there probably were songs sang about President Bush but the liberal left didn't search the internet trying to find the dirt on him like these crazy right wingnuts are doing!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by rms (September 29, 2009 6:15 pm ET)
                3  
                And they did!!

                http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2213869/obama_song_controversy_and_katrina.html

                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/29/jon-stewart-defends-nea-s_n_302653.html
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 29, 2009 3:10 pm ET)
              6  
              Yeah, and how many teachers were forcing their students to sing praise songs for President Bush?
              You don't know that a single one of those children were "forced" to "sing praise songs" (whatever the hell they are) for Obama. You are throwing out the word "forced" because your argument is too weak to stand on its own without the emotional crutch.

              Since you made the claim, perhaps you should find out how many students were "forced" to sing, and until you know for sure, you really shouldn't try arguing by talking out of your ass, ass.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by starkcr31 (September 29, 2009 3:15 pm ET)
                  7
                What are the kids going to do, refuse? Did you not even go to elementary school?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 10:50 am ET)
                  5  
                  I went to elementary school, but unlike you, I learned from it.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by starkcr31 (September 30, 2009 3:33 pm ET)
                      4
                    That's good since that's apparently as far as you went in school.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by foghornleghorn (September 30, 2009 4:12 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Elementary school must have really left an imprint on you. I can tell by your child-like playground retorts.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by starkcr31 (October 01, 2009 10:27 am ET)
                          1
                        Yeah, and simply calling someone an "idiot" is an extremely mature retort (yes, you did that). Congratulations on your rampant hypocrisy.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 12:13 pm ET)
                          1  
                          That's good since that's apparently as far as you went in school.
                          That was your response above, Puffer Fish.

                          Apparently it isn't hypocritical to call someone uneducated, but calling someone an idiot is. It's apparently all a matter of degree, or of double standards, which are the only standards you seem to have, Puffer Fish.
                          Report Abuse
            • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (September 29, 2009 3:20 pm ET)
              4  
              I've heard 20 for Bush. That's 17 more than you've heard!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (September 29, 2009 5:15 pm ET)
              4  
              "Yeah, and how many teachers were forcing their students to sing praise songs for President Bush? None? I've already heard 3 for Obama."

              Pay particular attention the last minute of this Jon Stewart segment, you know, where the first lady, Laura Bush, is indoctrinating school children to worship big government.


              You're just not very smart, stark


              Report Abuse
              • Author by starkcr31 (September 30, 2009 10:36 am ET)
                  5
                I said PRESIDENT BUSH. You're just not very smart because apparently you can't read.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 10:53 am ET)
                  5  
                  I read very well, you just suck at expressing yourself in writing.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by starkcr31 (September 30, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
                      6
                    So saying "President Bush" instead of "Laura Bush" was unclear?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 5:18 pm ET)
                      3  
                      You thought the children were singing the praises of Laura Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina?

                      No wonder you don't understand any posts.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (September 30, 2009 2:25 pm ET)
                  6  
                  The recent videos that surfaced weren't singing directly to President Obama either. Your distinction is horribly dishonest. The song about Bush was praising him when he did a horrible job. On the other hand, the song about Obama simply described a couple of things no one can argue that he supported and pushed and was successful with.

                  It has no bearing on the 'indoctrination' of kids whether George Bush was present when the kids sang.

                  What a loser you are, Starkcr31.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by puppienrainbows (September 30, 2009 11:32 am ET)
              5
            If a parent put it on you-tube, blame the parent, Corky.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (September 30, 2009 2:29 pm ET)
              4  
              I have blamed the person (individual) who put the video online.

              But commercial organizations have a higher responsibility than an individual has, and they failed miserably in their efforts.

              One cannot link to a video and be excused from responsibility for the faces of the children not being blurred.

              FoxNews eventually provided their own copy of the video to their viewers and blurred the faces. Other groups that didn't do that were wrong.

              It doesn't remove the responsibility from the subsequent violators of the children's right to privacy that someone posted the video first!!!!!
              Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (September 29, 2009 3:01 pm ET)
          4  
          It's not an appropriate role for a news group or a journalist.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (September 29, 2009 5:01 pm ET)
          5  
          So, puppy, when Laura Bush forced children to sing the praises of Bush and FEMA after Katrina, that wasn't cool with you either, right?


          Pay particular attention the last minute of this Jon Stewart segment, you know, where the first lady is indoctrinating school children to worship big government.


          Ignorant hypocrite.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by puppienrainbows (September 30, 2009 11:31 am ET)
              5
            They didn't compare Bush with Jesus as they did in New Jersey with mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama. The song for mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama also appears to make it look like he tastes good. Light chocolate, maybe?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (September 30, 2009 1:04 pm ET)
              5  
              Right. Got it. School kids imploring God to bless the Republican controlled congress and White House = good. School kids singing praises for a black liberal president = bad.

              Screw you, ya ignorant hypocrite.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (September 30, 2009 2:32 pm ET)
              5  
              These kids didn't compare Obama with Jesus either.

              They compared one tenet held by Jesus, that the color of one's skin shouldn't matter, to Obama holding that same tenet.

              It's a strawman argument to say that the song compared Jesus to Obama. It didn't.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 5:22 pm ET)
              3  
              They didn't compare Bush with Jesus as they did in New Jersey with mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama.
              So you think "mmm mmm mmm" = Jesus?

              You're a bigger (I) than I imagined.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by k2 (September 29, 2009 11:13 am ET)
      8  
      Funny, when people were encouraged to send the White House examples of LIES they heard from politicians and the media about health care reform, the right-wing went crazy -- so I guess the lesson is DON'T SNITCH on the wealthy and powerful, but be hyper-vigilant about your local elementary school.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by RealTruthseeker (September 29, 2009 5:31 pm ET)
        5  
        And the difference here is that the White House only wanted to know about the deceptions themselves. They could care less who did them. In fact, with all the viral e-mails being sent out distorting health care reform and HB 3200... it's impossible to find out the origins anyway.
        The "Washington Times" actually wants names.

        Despicable!!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Ray Radlein (September 29, 2009 11:31 am ET)
      10  
      This isn't anything new: Remember Graeme Frost, the 12 year old Baltimore kid who spoke about how S-CHIP had saved his family after they were in an automobile accident? The right-wing noise machine descended on him and his family in full force, with Michelle Malkin going so far as to peek in their windows and visit the father's workplace.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by shaggles (September 29, 2009 12:05 pm ET)
        3 3
        Yep. The crazies will attack anyone to score points. However I blame the pols to a degree. The Dems especially should know that their opponants will stop at nothing. Using kids to sell your point is sort of a cheap ploy anyway. I didn't agree with all the people saying the little girl that asked President Obama a question was a plant but why was he taking a question from a little kid? What's the point of that?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Conchobhar (September 30, 2009 3:38 pm ET)
          4  
          I think the point might have been to motivate that little girl, and others like her, to take an interest in their democracy. It's also encouraging to a child, and a confidence builder, to have an adult show genuine interest in something the child has to say, or to answer a child's question with respect for the child's intellect.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by HGMorgan4592 (September 29, 2009 12:05 pm ET)
      5 1
      Yo Repub's, Every time Y'all cause a depression with your unchecked greed, the,(New Democrat Led), Government funds the Arts, and Artists as part of the Recovery efforts.
      When FDR did it, your Grandpa's didn't complain that the President was funding personal propaganda, But, you did accuse him of funding Communist Propaganda! In that instance you were right, as much of the WPA and CCC art was very similar to Soviet art of the 30's. Here's a good example:"http://www.english.illinois.edu/Maps/depression/artgallery.htm". If you don't want struggling artists displaying their feelings, perhaps you could alter the Boom & Bust nature of our economy by growing a conscience and obeying some regulations ?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by fabucat58 (September 29, 2009 1:24 pm ET)
        7  
        You know, art styles and movements travel around the world despite the political regimes of the various countries they are popular in. Soviet art of the 1930s, US WPA and privately made art, and Italian Objectivist art in the 1930s (whose practitioners were fascists) had similar styles. The artists of a variety of political regimes expressed themselves in a similar angular, stylized art deco style (very influenced by Ancient Egytian and other Middle Eastern art), regardless of their politics (which ranged from far left to far right). Your grandmother probably had a lot of art deco stuff. Does that make her a Commie or a fascist?

        Today, rap music is an example of how an art form can travel the world and engage a variety of practitioners with far different politics. There are Palestinian rappers, Zionist rappers, and even Uigher rappers in China. To say that all of these rappers espouse the same sort of black nationalism and pride that the first African American rappers did is ridiculous.

        My paragraph above illustrates the stupidity of assigning a political ideology to certain art forms and/or art styles. Stop learning art history and theory from Glenn Beck!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by PigFox (September 29, 2009 1:55 pm ET)
        9
      Really, you guys think Fox News and the Washington Times can unleash mobs on anybody? What kind of bizarro world do you think we live in?! You guys need to get a hobby and do something healthy instead of worrying about what stuff like this. Geez!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (September 29, 2009 3:05 pm ET)
        5  
        Yeah, we do think that they can influence people.

        That's the whole point of this site - conservative media misinformation is the problem, and it's a problem because it can influence people!

        You need to get a clue, and stop telling people in much better shape than you are how to run their lives.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 29, 2009 3:12 pm ET)
        7  
        Really, you guys think Fox News and the Washington Times can unleash mobs on anybody?
        Three words: Doctor George Tiller.

        Five more words: You are an ignorant moron.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by starkcr31 (September 29, 2009 3:16 pm ET)
            7
          Wow, one crazy person kills someone else and it means it was ordered by Fox News. Are you really that stupid or just insane?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by kydem09 (September 29, 2009 3:57 pm ET)
              5
            The former, I think.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (September 29, 2009 5:22 pm ET)
            7  
            Words mean things. Words motivate people. It's not our fault you righties are not willing to take personal responsibility for the consequences of your eliminationist rhetoric.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by starkcr31 (September 30, 2009 10:48 am ET)
                5
              Ok, then that shooting at the military recruitment center was ordered by the democrats in congress by saying our troops are murderers.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 10:59 am ET)
                4  
                And you can certainly provide a definite, documented example of a Congressional Democrat saying that all the troops are murderers. Because you used the words "our troops," which includea all of them. Therefore, proof of your claim requires that you cite an example of a Democrat calling every single one of our troops murderers. If you can't, you're just another exaggerating, straw-man employing, pathetic liar.

                You really have a flair for the ridiculously exaggerated false equivalence and the straw man, Puffer Fish. What you are not very good at is logical thinking, rational discourse, and anything requiring intelligence of any sort.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by puppienrainbows (September 30, 2009 11:38 am ET)
                    4
                  John Murtha (D), John Kerry (D). Just two to start with. Want more, toostupidtorefutewingnuts?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by starkcr31 (September 30, 2009 1:24 pm ET)
                      4
                    Bingo
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 5:26 pm ET)
                      1  
                      Bingo is above your ability to comprehend.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by starkcr31 (October 01, 2009 10:31 am ET)
                          1
                        After reading your posts, a more accurate name for you would be "Easily refuted by anyone".
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 12:15 pm ET)
                          1  
                          So why haven't you been able to do it yet?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by starkcr31 (October 01, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
                              1
                            As usual, you're mistaken. I have.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 4:06 pm ET)
                              1  
                              Then you can point out precisely where you have done it, using arguments that are concise, logical, and well-presented. You have not done any of those things, ever. You merely insult those who prove you wrong and then go away and sulk, only to return later with the same fallacious arguments.
                              Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 5:25 pm ET)
                    2  
                    They called all our troops murderers? interesting, since they were in the military also, do you believe that they called themselves murderers also, since you believe they called every one of our troops murderers? Do you believe the troops at My Lai were murderers? I do. I don't believe every one of our troops are murderers, as you have stated that Democratic Congressmen have done.

                    Or are you two just the most stupid fools ever to employ straw man arguments over and over again, thinking they are logically sound?
                    Report Abuse
    • Author by aaniko (September 29, 2009 4:49 pm ET)
        5
      Ignorance must be bliss. Does anyone here ever listen to anything but the mainstream (irrelevant) media? If you did, you might learn something. Otherwise stick your head in the sand and pretend Obama and his minions are all good Americans. Just don't come back and say "why didn't somebody tell me we have a marxist/communist in the White House".
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 11:00 am ET)
        5  
        OK, back away from the hallucinogens.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Conchobhar (September 30, 2009 3:42 pm ET)
        4  
        "Ignorance must be bliss."

        Well, is it? The rest of your post shows you definitely should know.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 30, 2009 4:02 pm ET)
        4  
        Just don't come back and say "why didn't somebody tell me we have a marxist/communist in the White House".


        Go ask your mother to change your diaper.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 5:27 pm ET)
          3  
          Go ask your mother to change your diaper.
          I'll bet he'll have no trouble doing that, as she lives right above the basement his computer is in.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by starkcr31 (October 01, 2009 1:46 pm ET)
              1
            Wow, what an original joke.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 4:07 pm ET)
                 
              It's not an original situation. Ask your mom to explain it to her next time you hear her walking on the floor above you.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by RealTruthseeker (September 29, 2009 5:28 pm ET)
      5  
      "•Believed in the 9-11 "Truther" conspiracy theory? "

      Wow. One would think that a publication that calls itself a NEWSpaper would actually realize that 9-11 "truthers" run the gamit on what they believe and what they want to find out... as well as motivations for doing so.

      This particular 'bullet' deserves an MMFA write-up in itself. Of course, one can find out something about it by simply looking at Wikipedia.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by RUFUSLEVIN (September 29, 2009 6:15 pm ET)
        4
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMJgwPenhpY&feature=player_embedded

      speaking of frenzied mobs...here is a group that seem to be actually praying to President Obama over healthcare...hmmmm hmm hmmmm
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 30, 2009 11:01 am ET)
        4  
        Actually, they're not, but thanks for playing. You may return to your village now, they've been without their idiot for too long now.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by starkcr31 (October 01, 2009 1:48 pm ET)
            1
          So you state and it makes it true? I guess that must mean you're God. Don't you have more important things to do than posting on here, like running the Universe?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (October 01, 2009 4:09 pm ET)
            1  
            Wow. You've graduated from straw men to straw deities. I guess that means your arguments are infinitely more stupid than they were before.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by noneyabidnis (September 29, 2009 10:35 pm ET)
      5  
      I wish a teabagger would start stalking me. I'd love to teach them a thing or two about learning to respect their fellow Americans.

      That said, I'm an artist and I support Barack Obama. Not only that, I sell Barack Obama inspired photographs and give all proceeds to non-profit community organizations that help the poor.

      Any conservative loons want to stalk me, reply here with an email address and I'll send you my home phone number, and if you're lucky, my home address.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by yancy derringer (September 30, 2009 4:05 pm ET)
      4  
      Sun Myung Moon spent more money than anyone promoting, propping up, and molding today's conservatism. It is therefore only fitting that his propaganda organ should play a lead role in finishing off the country to meet Moon's goal of the destruction of "American-style democracy." Moon has called for an end to democracy many, many times.

      Moon openly brags about using the paper to "influence America" along with his "other activities."

      "I influenced America through the Washington Times and so many different activities. Do you want Father in America. (Sun Myung Moon, September 13, 2002 "The Last Days Are Coming to America.")



      Moon to his followers in a "leadership" meeting in 1989:

      So please take spiritual dominion in your states. You can proclaim spiritually to the government leaders, "I am the elder brother, you are the younger brother." Teach them what you have learned. I invited many congressmen and senators to come to conferences to be educated. Though they may not proclaim openly, many of them support me. Through the Washington Times, Insight magazine, and the World and I, I have been preparing the foundation for you to influence America. [Leaders' Conference - November 23, 1989 - Sun Myung Moon
      November 23, 1989)


      Moon's followers know the role "Father's projects" have played at "influencing" our nation to bring in Moon's kind of America, but the American public have not been allowed in on the ruse.

      Damian Anderson, a long time follower of Moon’s put it this way when he wrote about “Father’s project,” the Washington Times, that "[t]he creation of that newspaper and the following it has gained through talk-radio and conservatives nationwide has contributed to fundamental change in the United States." [Damian Anderson - Unification Church Q&A from the Internet]

      "Fundamental" change indeed.

      Moon has played the nation for saps, the majority of whom have either sat back and watched him do this or in the case of the Republican Party and conservative movement, openly helped him by working with him as they have done done ever since Reagan gave the high sign that it was OK to welcome Moon and give him a seat in their movement. Saps who bought every lie claiming the paper's "independence" from Moon's ultimate goals.

      Anyone notice that Moon, a fascist who supported torturing South American dictators like Stroessner, is also a union hating, homophobic, authoritarian, and surprise, a theocrat? Now who does that remind you of? One of his followers is a key figure in the anti-Darwin efforts of the right. The UC deploys what is called "Heavenly deception" which means it is OK to lie and break laws as long YOU are doing God's will as interpreted by its leader. Any of those traits remind you of the conservative movement? Sound familiar?

      Moon has spent billions in overseas cash - much of it swindled from widows in Japan - to mold today's right into his image while he has worked to subvert our political system and bring it more in line with his ideology, this effort is more of that. The witting and unwitting - the conditioned - doing Moon's bidding.

      Quoting the first editor of the WT, James Whelan:

      "They (the Moonies) are subverting our political system. They're doing it through front organizations--most of them disguised--and through their funding of independent organizations--through the placement of volunteers in the inner sanctums of hard-pressed organizations. In every instance--in every instance--those who attend their conferences, those who accept their money or their volunteers, delude themselves that there is no loss of virtue because the Moonies have not proselytized. That misses the central, crucial point: the Moonies are a political movement in religious clothing. Moon seeks power, not the salvation of souls. To achieve that, he needs religious fanatics as his palace guard and shock troops. But more importantly, he needs secular conscripts--seduced by money, free trips, free services, seemingly endless bounty and booty--in order to give him respectability and, with it, that image of influence which translates as power."


      BTW, none of this has to do with the "free market" of ideas, it is bought and paid for by non-citizen Moon with overseas swindled cash to create his vision of a right wing "world" where the theocrats - under his influence are empowered.

      From “Moonstruck: The Reverend and his Newspaper” by Ann Louise Bardach, published in Killed, Great Journalism Too Hot to Print by David Wallis:

      Charlotte Hayes, who wrote a hilarious and snarky memoir in The New Republic entitled "I was a Moonie Gossip Columnist," still laments the loss of the generous expense account she had at the paper. "This is on the Rev.," Hayes, a thoroughbred conservative, would tell sources as she lunged for meal checks. "The [Washington} Times," she added drolly, "is a place for free market conservatives to escape the free market."
      Report Abuse
    • Author by yancy derringer (September 30, 2009 4:58 pm ET)
      3  
      What does the Washington Times' owner and his "peace loving" followers think about how the press should be treated if does not report as the UC wishes?

      In 2006 a Korean publication had the audacity to be critical of Moon's swindling organization. Below is the editorial the publication produced regarding the event which took 1500 policeman to deal with the FFWPU/Unification Church's violent disturbance.

      Note that one long time observer of the UC has aptly stated that "You don't do anything in that organization without the okay from your superiors. You don't fart without permission."

      Excerpt form the Korean editorial:An Attack on Dong-A Ilbo

      The incident where 700 worshippers of the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification (FFWPU) broke into the office building of this newspaper company in Chungjeong-ro the day before yesterday and damaged the property is a serious threat to the freedom of press and the right of the nation to know. It is very difficult to understand that the eight hours of violence and the production disturbance by the worshippers of FFWPU, who were discontent with the report in the September issue of Shindonga, a monthly publication of this company, with the title "Grand Dissection of FFWP Kingdom," was a conduct by the worshippers of a religion which stress peace in the world.

      The FFWPU worshippers destroyed the computers and office fixtures of the Shindonga journalists and stole the coverage documents of journalist Cho Seong-sik, the one who wrote the report concerned. They threatened to "throw sand on the rotary press of Dong-A Ilbo" and even sent more than 200 text messages to Cho’s cell phone, saying, "We'll kill you." Also, a photojournalist of this newspaper company Gang Byeong-gi and a CBS [Christian Broadcasting] reporter Kim Jae-pyeong were attacked with violence and threats by the worshippers. [...]

      It is almost impossible to understand that the FFWPU, which manages a number of press organizations both at home and abroad, should attempt to oppress a press report by resorting to violence. [...]

      The FFWPU is carrying out dynamic activities and spreading its domain in the sectors of religion, business, press, university, culture, and sports. The FFWPU will have to think about how this incident will be reflected in recognition of the nation and the people around the world on religion and its related businesses.



      Report Abuse
    • Author by Marge (September 30, 2009 7:10 pm ET)
      1  
      I don't have a conspiracy mind. But I think all this right wing hate and violence and talky talk is aimed at getting someone to bring down Obama. I think they figure with Obama gone Biden will be beatable and they can take back the presidency.

      I can not understand that segment of our population. How sick this country has become. How can real true Americans that believe in justice and freedom for all resort to this type of behaviour. I am 76 years old and I have told my family from early on that the republicans are hate and fear monglers. They want to take over this country and suppress the many for the good of big business.

      That is why they are so against the unions. Against the foundations that help the poor and needy. We used to have some republicans that were true Americans, Senator Dirkson, Howard Baker for two but those type are gone forever....we now have the current crop of hate spewers in congress and I think they are only going to get worst.
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