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Jamison Foser
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How did media cover GOP's 2003 use of reconciliation? They didn't

March 03, 2010 4:48 pm ET

For weeks, the news media have been obsessed with the question of whether congressional Democrats would use a legislative mechanism known as "reconciliation" to pass changes to the health care reform legislation that passed the Senate in late December.

Unfortunately, that obsession has not actually resulted in reporters consistently getting the story right. Basic facts that should be central to the debate over the propriety of reconciliation have gotten lost in the mix. First, nobody is talking about passing the entire health care reform package via reconciliation -- the Senate has already passed its bill, and did so by overcoming a filibuster. Reconciliation would, instead, be used to pass a much smaller package of changes to that legislation via majority vote. Second, there is nothing hasty or debate-stifling about using reconciliation in this case: Congress has been considering health care reform for more than a year. Finally, reconciliation isn't all that unusual, having been used in connection with some of the highest-profile legislation in recent decades, including President Bush's tax cuts and the welfare reform bill President Clinton signed. Those are facts, and they are not in dispute.

And yet the media are referring to reconciliation as the "nuclear option" and portraying it as an obscure procedural gimmick being considered in an attempt to circumvent Senate rules and "ram" health care legislation through Congress. The conservative media are going so far as to claim that use of reconciliation would be "unprecedented."

Funny, I don't remember this level of media outrage in 2003, when Republicans passed President Bush's tax cut legislation via reconciliation.

But what's really striking about the media's approach to reconciliation is how much it differs from the way they treated the Republicans' use of reconciliation to pass President Bush's 2003 tax cut legislation. Only two Democrats voted for that bill -- one of whom, Georgia Sen. Zell Miller, doesn't really count, as he was a de facto Republican -- and Vice President Dick Cheney had to break a 50-50 tie. (Three Senate Republicans joined 46 Democrats and one independent in voting against the bill, which these days would be described as "bipartisan opposition.")

And yet, in the weeks leading up to the reconciliation vote, the media didn't portray the Republicans as ramming tax cuts through Congress via unprecedented use of an obscure procedural gimmick to circumvent Senate rules. In fact, they didn't say much of anything at all about reconciliation.

The Senate reconciliation vote occurred on May 23, 2003. In the month of May, only one New York Times article so much as mentioned the use of reconciliation for the tax cuts -- a May 13, 2003, article that devoted a few paragraphs to wrangling over whether Senate Republicans could assign the bill number they wanted (S.2) to a bill approved via reconciliation. The Times also used the word "reconciliation" in a May 9, 2003, editorial, but gave no indication whatsoever of what it meant.

And that's more attention than most news outlets gave to the use of reconciliation that month. The Washington Post didn't run a single article, column, editorial, or letter to the editor that used the words "reconciliation" and "senate." Not one. USA Today, the Los Angeles Times, and the Associated Press were similarly silent.

Cable news didn't care, either. CNN ran a quote by Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley about the substance of the tax cuts in which he used the word "reconciliation" in passing -- but that was it. Fox News aired two interviews in which Republican members of Congress referred to the reconciliation process in order to explain why the tax cuts would be temporary, but neither they nor the reporters interviewing them treated reconciliation as a controversial tactic.

And ABC, CBS, NBC? Nothing, nothing, nothing.

Even the insider publications that tend to cover legislative minutia paid little attention to the Republicans' use of reconciliation. National Journal made passing mentions on May 3 and May 10, 2003, neither of which so much as hinted that reconciliation was unusual, inappropriate, or controversial. And Roll Call mentioned reconciliation exactly once: a May 14, 2003, article about Republican angst over having committed a "procedural snafu" that delayed their use of reconciliation. The article quoted Grassley saying of Senate parliamentarian Alan Frumin: "He could be technically right. ... But there's no need to have a strict interpretation of the rules like that." And, Roll Call noted, "Some GOP aides even hinted that Frumin's position as parliamentarian could be in danger if he continued to make rulings that disadvantaged their political goals."

You'd think that if reconciliation was really the controversial and heavy-handed tactic the media is currently portraying it as, there would have been a ton of media coverage of Senate Republican aides suggesting the parliamentarian would be fired if he didn't let the GOP handle reconciliation however they wanted. Particularly in light of the fact that Frumin was elevated to his post by the Senate Republican leadership in 2001 -- after they fired his predecessor for issuing rulings that complicated their efforts to use reconciliation for that year's round of tax cuts.

But there wasn't even a blip -- not a single mention in The New York Times, The Washington Post, or on ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN. Well, that's not quite true: The Times did mention GOP unhappiness with Frumin on May 31, 2003, -- more than a week after the reconciliation vote took place.

Even if you look at the five months preceding the May 23, 2003, reconciliation vote, you find very little major media attention paid to the process. And when reconciliation was mentioned, it was only in passing, without any indication it was controversial. Like the March 14, 2003, Washington Post article that simply stated, "Parliamentary -- or 'reconciliation' -- language in both the Senate and House budget resolutions ... would ensure that a $ 726 billion tax package would need only 51 votes for Senate passage rather than the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster blocking a floor vote." Or Tim Russert's matter-of-fact statement on January 7, 2003: "[T]he Republicans are going to use a technique called reconciliation. It's a budget process where they would in effect take away the right of the Democrats to filibuster, which means you would only need 51 votes to pass this legislation." And that's about it: The Times, Post, the three broadcast networks and CNN combined for fewer than a half-dozen other mentions of the process over the course of five months, none of which portrayed it as controversial.

The current hyperventilation about the use of reconciliation is completely inconsistent with the way the media covered reconciliation in 2003. Back then, they didn't treat reconciliation as an unusual or controversial tactic -- in fact, they barely noticed it, even when Republicans made noises about firing the parliamentarian they elevated when they fired the previous parliamentarian.

Jamison Foser is a Senior Fellow at Media Matters for America, a progressive media watchdog and research and information center based in Washington, D.C. Foser also contributes to County Fair, a media blog featuring links to progressive media criticism from around the Web, as well as original commentary. You can follow him on Twitter and Facebook or sign up to receive his columns by email.

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    • Author by Midnight Kevin (March 03, 2010 5:05 pm ET)
      13 4
      Conservative response to this? None...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wizbor4654 (March 03, 2010 5:52 pm ET)
        12 33
        Big difference, what BUSH-CLINTON crammed thru didn't cost the taxpayers any $$. BUSH- let us workers keep more of what we earn, CLINTON - force the lazy dependent on govt handout types to work. BOTH WORKED!

        OBOMA- cram thru the biggest govt takeover in history!

        NOT EVEN CLOSE FOSER :-)

        Cheers,
        wix
        -------
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Old55 (March 03, 2010 6:07 pm ET)
          26 6
          "Biggest government takeover in history"? Come on, man, are you kidding? Even if this health care bill passes, the fundamental underlying system is pretty much intact. I don't know how you can say Foser's "not even close". There was, in fact, no big deal made about "reconciliation" back in '03. That was his point. Is he not right and, if not, what evidence do you have?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 04, 2010 7:43 am ET)
            6 14
            There most certainly was a big deal made by none other than Obama himself. He stated Nov 24, 2004:

            OBAMA 2004: My understanding of the Senate is is that you need 60 votes to get something significant to happen, which means that Democrats and have to ask the question: Do we have the will to move an American agenda forward, not a Democratic or Republican agenda forward?


            OBAMA 2006: Those big-ticket items, fixing our health care system. You know, one of the arguments that sometimes I get with, uhh, my fellow progressives and -- and some of these have -- have flashed up in the blog communities on occasion -- is this notion that we should function sort of like Karl Rove, where we -- we identify our core base, we throw 'em red meat, we get a 50-plus-one, uhhh, victory. See, Karl Rove doesn't need a broad consensus because he doesn't believe in government. If we want to transform the country, though, that requires a -- a sizeable majority.


            OBAMA 2007: The bottom line is is that our health care plans are similar. The question, once again, is: Who can get it done? Who can build a movement for change? This is an area where we're going to have to have a 60% majority in the Senate and the House in order to actually get a bill to my desk. We're going to have to have a majority to get a bill to my desk that is not just a 50-plus-one majority.



            OBAMA 2007: You gotta break out of what I call the sort of 50-plus-one pattern of presidential politics. Maybe you eke out a victory with 50-plus-one but you can't govern. You know, you get Air Force One and a lot of nice perks as president but you can't -- you can't deliver on health -- we're not going to pass universal health care with a -- with a 50-plus-one strategy.


            Seems Barry made a big deal out of it. You just weren't paying attention J.

            Hypocrites thy name is liberal.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mobaidin (March 04, 2010 8:33 am ET)
              12 3
              You do know the health care bill passed the Senate with 60 votes, right?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 04, 2010 8:55 am ET)
                6 10
                The topic is HOW the health care bill passed...you do know the difference...right?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (March 04, 2010 9:28 am ET)
                  12 4
                  What? Who's topic? Foser's is past attitudes about and media coverage of "reconciliation". HCR did pass in the Senate without it. Your's is posting the latest from Limbaugh.com. so you can call libs hypocrites. I think there is plenty of that amongst conservatives.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by mk3872 (March 04, 2010 10:03 am ET)
                  11 3
                  Tbone - We understand. Do you?

                  HCR passed with 60 votes. The reconciliation vote is for a small set of fixes based on several compromises.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by markslp7013 (March 04, 2010 8:46 am ET)
              15 4
              I think that then Senator Obama was still naive enough to think that Republicans could be convinced to actually engage in governance. Sadly, he has learned that they don't operate that way; it is always party before country with these guys. And while I appreciate your argument regarding the hypocrisy in this case, it doesn't change the fact that the Republicans are also hypocrites on this issue. Personally, I'll take hypocrisy in the context of extending access to health care for all over hypocrisy in the context of tax cuts that favored the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. By the way, isn't cutting taxes supposed to make our economy stronger? Those 2001 and 2003 tax cuts worked wonders!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by wwjbd (March 05, 2010 9:11 am ET)
                1 1
                What would you call 46 straight months of GDP growth?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Disputed Zone (March 05, 2010 10:19 am ET)
                  4  
                  It would be great if it weren't accompanied by negative job growth.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Disputed Zone (March 05, 2010 10:32 am ET)
                    4  
                    And growing inequality.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 05, 2010 5:23 pm ET)
                         
                      Hehehe... Growing inequality. Please explain how to limit inequality.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Disputed Zone (March 06, 2010 2:07 am ET)
                        1  
                        I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us, at the expense of middle-class Americans who most need tax relief. - John Sidney McCain III
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 11:50 am ET)
                  1  
                  GDP? That's your whole point? LOL!
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 04, 2010 9:45 am ET)
              10 1
              Which media outlet covered those quotes? Could you provide a media source?

              Also, the article references the GOP's use of reconciliation in 2003. Your first quote from Obama is from 2004. Could you find quotes and media stories from 2003 to refute Foser's thesis?

              Thanks in advance.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 03, 2010 6:44 pm ET)
          15 1
          LOL!!!

          Not very well informed, are you?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 03, 2010 7:01 pm ET)
          24 1
          In your opinion, does the federal deficit "cost taxpayers any $$?" If so, the tax cuts that were crammed through cost us billions.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Midnight Kevin (March 03, 2010 7:48 pm ET)
            12  
            Interesting thought. It makes me consider the claims of fiscal conservatism yet allowing the deficit to exist...

            The GOP has been equally as negligent in paying off the national debt, and tax cuts can be blamed for perpetuating the debt. If they were so concerned in not contributing to increasing the debt, the GOP would support a tax increase, or an increase in money earmarked, for the repayment. Every family that understands the value of a dollar knows that when times are tight, money needs to be re-prioritized. I would love to see a bill introduced into Congress calling for a tax that would go directly to the national debt... I would then love to see the GOP fight that one!
            ------------------------------
            The Midnight Review

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Another_Cat (March 04, 2010 3:41 pm ET)
              1  
              Yeah, I'm still hung up on a story I heard the other day on NPR where Republicans are screaming for Democratic bills to be pay-as-you-go; show how they will be payed for; when they are the party that voted down a bill that had those exact provisions (I guess it's something that they even let it on the floor). What was the difference, that such language would have applied to all bills introduced thereafter? If the only reason they said no was because it would have applied to thier own bills, that kind of shoots a truck-sized hole in their claim to be fiscally conservative.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Unreality (March 04, 2010 12:41 am ET)
            14  
            not billions - TRILLIONS

            $5.2 TRILLION in deficit spending during the Dubya years in total. He left with $4.9 trillion in new debt on top of $6.5 trillion when he came in.

            Although only about $1.8 trillion of that was done with the nuclear option, I mean, reconciliation.

            wizbor4654, that's your money, too.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wizbor4654 (March 04, 2010 11:42 am ET)
              2 6
              You see what it is today? http://www.usdebtclock.org/

              Of course both parties are guilty, Coke-Pepsi, Burgerking-Macdonals, Exxon-Shell, Microsoft-Google, Democrat-Republican, we only have an illusion of choice, take the red pill and step outside the matrix. We live in a Duelopoly and will we all fight with each other while the Globalest Banking Cartel lol's and takes are money.

              Wiz
              ---
              Report Abuse
              • Author by all your eyes (March 04, 2010 9:58 pm ET)
                5 1
                The national debt increased between 1981 and 1992 from less around $1 trillion to around $4 trillion. Tax cuts for the wealthy and massive military spending were to blame. Between 2001 and 2008 the national debt increased from around $4 trillion to around $10 trillion. Notice a trend? Spreading the blame is unfair. Blaming Democrats, particularly Obama, is extremely dishonest.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (March 04, 2010 11:13 pm ET)
                1 1
                It's baloney to claim that Dems are equivalent to Republicans in hardly ANY way.

                Baloney is a NICE way to classify it.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by coldteablues19577325 (March 04, 2010 2:27 pm ET)
            4 1
            "In your opinion, does the federal deficit "cost taxpayers any $$?" If so, the tax cuts that were crammed through cost us billions."

            I was thinking on the lines that it might have 'saved' us $$'s at that time, but what about now, and what about in the future? SOMEONE is going to be paying for Bush's decisions.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by TheSarge (March 05, 2010 9:26 am ET)
            2  
            Yeah. Bush's two wars didn't exactly pay for themselves, you know. They just dug the American taxpayer deeper into debt.

            [http://www.methodshop.com/picts/trillion/us-debt.jpg]
            Report Abuse
        • Author by steeve (March 03, 2010 7:09 pm ET)
          20 2
          "BUSH- let us workers keep more of what we earn"

          How much did you, as a worker, keep from the Bush tax cuts? You don't have the slightest idea. You have no idea how tax policy affects your taxes.

          (Hint: you're not rich)

          "BOTH WORKED!"

          The vapid emptiness of that statement makes the eyes bug out. It's not connected by the tiniest thread to any fact or understanding. The word "worked", as used here, doesn't even have any meaning. In literally 100% of all possible outcomes, theoretical or actual, the statement "both worked" would still have been posted.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by angels4light (March 03, 2010 7:10 pm ET)
          13 1
          So, all those lazy people who are disabled are not worth consideration, either, right? And WHAT exactly is the government taking over with health INSURANCE reform? As for costing taxpayers money, well, only the negative money that will result in a reduction in the deficit. Bush tax cuts cost the taxpayer a LOT of money, in the form of doubling the national debt - or doesn't that figure into your calculations of money?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Truth247 (March 03, 2010 10:49 pm ET)
          11 1
          Wow, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. The Bush tax cuts will cost America $1,000,000,000,000, that's $1 Trillion. Bush tax cuts had next to nothing to do with what you work for. Unless you happen to be in the top 1% in terms of income. For the 4 out of 5 families making LESS than $73,000 a year the tax cuts amounted to $350 a year. How is that ONE DOLLAR a DAY helping you? Living large on easy street aren't you? It isn't even worth my time to try and explain to you that eliminating the estate tax was the center piece of the Bush tax cuts. I'm sure you are sleeping much easier knowing that Bush saved BILLIONS of dollars for the top 1%. They really needed that money and America certainly doesn't need the $1 TRILLION it is costing us. You are really not very well informed and you should just go back and turn on Beck or Limbaugh and let them tell you how much better off YOU are because of what Bush did to America.
          Bush Tax Cuts After 2002: June 2002 CTJ Analysis http://bit.ly/aGtGWw
          Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (March 03, 2010 11:24 pm ET)
          13 1
          What are you talking about?

          How do you figure the second of two unwise tax cuts that made us have huge deficits that taxpayers will have to cover for decades to come "didnt' cost the taxpayers any $"?

          And fool that you are, this healthcare reform is actually going to cost LESS than either doing nothing or than doing the Republican-suggested reform!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by RJ Kruger (March 04, 2010 7:33 am ET)
          8  
          Are you on the planet? The fact is, Geo. W. increased gov't spending by 104 percent, greater than any modern president. Health care reform will ultimately save taxpayer dollars. And, more important, why should anyone think health care is a for-profit business? Why should any corporation make BILLIONS of profit while providing health care? In a broader sense, our country/economy would be more sound and more productive if people were given adequate coverage--don't you think?

          Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 04, 2010 8:59 am ET)
          13 1
          What BUSH pushed through created huge deficits. And those DO cost the taxpayers money. Considering all the hyperventalating about the deficit lately, how can you even make that statement with a strait face?!

          And for Millionth time, WHAT "GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER"?!

          Stop channelling Glenn Beck for a moment, and why don't you try and give even a single actual example of a "government takeover." It ain't happeneing, it ain't even being proposed. It a bunch of purile nonsense dremt up by RW-whack-jobs to get gullibel fools riled up.

          It's nonsense.

          ------------------------------------------------------------
          FAIL. Try again.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wizbor4654 (March 04, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
            1 8
            Stop channelling Glenn Beck


            You need to stop "assuming" my friend, If glen beck agrees with something i say thats fine with me, but I sure as hell dont support a VAT tax nor am I anti free speech, both of which beck supports,( you saw what he did with van jones and medina?) I cant question my govt on 911?

            Beck like Orelly like Obberman etc are all corporate shills. Take the red pill Eddie and step outside the matrix ;-)

            wiz
            ----------
            Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 04, 2010 1:24 pm ET)
              7 1
              If you look at the current crop of Democrats, and see what amount to a Government Takeover, or even a Potential Governmentakover, you're way beyond the matrix. Give my reagard to Alice.

              What exactly is our Government trying to take over? I doubt they're even able to take back Congress (or the Supreme Court,) though THAT might be nice. See... the point remains whether you're a fan of Glenn Beck or not: WHAT GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER?

              I'm not goping to let you off the hook without answering that, even if you keep finding details to distract on.

              The way I see things, it's all any politician can do to remain remotely independant of the church or corporate industry whitout one of those interests eventually unseating him. There's a tyranny of the minority all right, but it sure ain't the GOVERNMENT that calling the shots.

              ----------------------------------------------------
              IMHO
              Report Abuse
            • Author by classicliberal2 (March 04, 2010 2:41 pm ET)
              6  
              Answer the question.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by overmars jr. (March 05, 2010 8:39 am ET)
              3  
              Ummm in what way is Olberman either like Beck or a corporate shill?

              He may be obnoxious or arrogant or annoying, but he is no friend to the fiscal wants of corporations.

              Good grief. False equivalency much?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by mk3872 (March 04, 2010 10:20 am ET)
          10 1
          Oh, Wiz, you are too funny! What a brain-dead dittohead ...

          You really, really think that slashing taxes for the rich, without cutting spending, actually DOESN'T COST the TAXPAYERS? LOL!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by coach777b (March 04, 2010 12:18 pm ET)
          8 1
          wizbo4654 states "Big difference, what BUSH-CLINTON crammed thru didn't cost the taxpayers any $$. BUSH- let us workers keep more of what we earn, CLINTON - force the lazy dependent on govt handout types to work. BOTH WORKED!"

          Wrong! Wrong on all counts! The tax cuts forthe wealthy cost the U.S billions. The undeclared/Illegal war in Iraq cost billions. The undeclared/Illegal war in Afghanistan cost billions. Your republican cronies were silent throughout the entire process. But as soon as a President takes office who is "not one of You", you attempt to obstruct and derail. Obama won the election and the republicans lost. Period.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by wizbor4654 (March 04, 2010 12:59 pm ET)
            3 9
            The tax cuts for the wealthy cost the U.S billions.

            This only makes sense if you actually believe all money belongs to govt. Since when does letting people keep what they earn cost the govt anything?

            However you are correct on the rest. Illegal wars waged by the current and past presidents DO cost us.

            Take the red pill coach.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by alienofwar (March 04, 2010 3:08 pm ET)
              9 1
              See, no....the money is not theirs. Part of living in our society involves us giving back to society. We are educated by our public schools, we drive on public roads, we take public transportation, we are defended by public military, etc, etc. Because of this investment in infrastructure which led you to success, you are beholden to pay back your dues as a productive member of society. So in reality, when we give tax cuts to the rich, we are effectively robbing America.

              The top 400 richest Americans paid only a 16.7% effective income tax rate between 2000-2007. America has made them a success, is that really fair that they pay back so little?

              http://www.tax.com/taxcom/features.nsf/Articles/0DEC0EAA7E4D7A2B852576CD00714692?OpenDocument
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Another_Cat (March 04, 2010 3:51 pm ET)
                3  
                And on top of that point, they line thier pockets with money from outsourcing jobs overseas where they pay no tax since they claim to be an American company, which further reduces revenue (the taxes that would ahve been paid by all those workers whose jobs left the shore). Hmm...come to think of it, the Bush administration created and/or strengthened the incentive for companies to outsource jobs by giving tax breaks for it in those tax cuts that "worked".
                Report Abuse
            • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 11:57 am ET)
              1  
              This guy knows jack about jack. Stop playing his game. His arguments are rediculous.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by SMTDL (March 04, 2010 12:55 pm ET)
          5  
          You must be joking!!It was to have 2 trillion less dollars in revenue while also being in one war(Afghanistan) and starting a 2nd (Iraq).Un- precedented to cut taxes at a time of war -even John McCain said it was irresponsible at the time before he flipped on it!!..And yes as the article documents, not a peep out of the media!!!Nothing in the media the other 21 times it was used!!!Why does the media show such bias over and over again in favor of Republicans? Bush got away with allowing 9/11 and at least exaggerating the need for attacking Iraq and was not seriously challenged by the media in the run up to the war.Why? Because media management told reporters to back off because the Bush White House(and Fox News) criticized any questions as unpatriotic.Even when the issue of the war costs being hidden...outside of the budget.. to mislead about the exploding deficit,it was pretty much dropped by the media.Now everyone pretends the deficit is just a recent problem!!!At the same time, the blatant lie that the media has a liberal bias still gets thrown out there with overwhelming evidence that is contradictory!!!That in itself should be a big news story!!Why isn't it??
          Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (March 04, 2010 10:23 pm ET)
          2 1
          Bush let the top 1% keep some money. His tax cut only lowered their taxes.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 11:48 am ET)
          3  
          BUSH- let us workers keep more of what we earn


          The tax cutes were for the rich... Not the workers, nimrod.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by skippersmom (March 04, 2010 9:18 am ET)
        11 1
        Perhaps it is because no journalist ever pursues it in an interview. The R is allowed to continue casting it as a outrageous and undemocratic 'trick' and no interviewer simply says "So how would you explain your use of this very same procedure more than twice as many times as the Democrats, many of those for even larger amounts?" Then insist on an answer! There is none, yet time after time those doing interviews ask no follow ups. It isn't accidental. It isn't always deliberate as many times the interviewers are too ignorant of facts to dispute and answer. But, obviously if you embarrass or expose an interviewee they are less likely to be 'available' for another booking. Screw real journalism.

        Obviously many politicians have become incapable of defending themselves or what's right. We got in this cesspool with a giant assist from the media. If we don't organize against and take action against this media, there is no hope for a future. Media Matters and those remaining defenders of real journalism may be the only salvation for us and I wish they would really organize an all out uprising from us against the media that pulled us down this rat hole.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by classicliberal2 (March 04, 2010 3:07 pm ET)
          9 1
          I probably agree with you as much as I've ever agreed with anyone here. Just yesterday, I was here ranting about the complete failure of the corporate press to present any context for what's happening with these subjects.

          For over a year, now, the top political story in the U.S., bar none, is Republican obstructionism, but the press offers no sustained narrative on the matter, won't scandalize the behavior, and, in fact, one is hard pressed to find much of anything about it at all; line up all the coverage mentioning it and weed out all the he said/she said items (because this story deals in quantifiable, verifiable facts, and the suggestion that it's just opinion vs. opinion amounts to a lie), and you'd have almost nothing left, when, in fact, it should be the lead story almost every night.

          The health care "reform" proposal advanced by Obama is based on several Republican health care "reform" proposals, but, initially, with a public option tacked on for cost-control purposes. That's a pretty damn important fact when Republicans start yelling "socialism" and "government takeover" and going to such insane lengths to stop it. Good luck in EVER hearing about that on the evening news, though.

          (The reason the "Democratic" proposal for "reform" is identical to those Republican plans is a story in itself--they're both written by industry lobbyists.)

          What Foser describes, here, is yet another example of the consequences of the corporate press refusal to offer any sort of context for what's happening in the health care debate. Reconciliation was a non-story when Republicans were using it, but great efforts are expended to make it appear as a scandal when Democrats do it. If the press had been providing the information about Republican obstructionism for the past year--and really, it goes back to their 2006 loss of congress--the wider public would immediately recognize the BS being shoveled by Republicans over this matter as just the latest in a long line of BS aimed at obstructing anything the Democrats have tried to do. If the story had ever been given the weight it deserved, the public would be sick of it and up in arms about it within a month.

          ---
          Left Hook! The Blog
          http://lefthooktheblog.blogspot.com/
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          • Author by Another_Cat (March 04, 2010 3:55 pm ET)
            2  
            There was a bumper sticker I started seeing wide use of during the run-up to Iraq that seems just as pertinent today, although addressed at a different entity: "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention"
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 05, 2010 9:05 am ET)
              2
            For over a year, now, the top political story in the U.S., bar none, is Republican obstructionism, but the press offers no sustained narrative on the matter, won't scandalize the behavior,


            You lament that the press wont "scandalize" Republican moves? Are you serious? That is not their job, but you have given us a window into the liberal soul and what you think the job of the left leaning press is.

            I'm assuming you had NO problems when the dems pulled the same hijinks during Reagan or Bush's terms, with not a whisper from the media I might add.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by classicliberal2 (March 05, 2010 10:01 am ET)
              4  
              You lament that the press wont "scandalize" Republican moves? Are you serious? That is not their job, but you have given us a window into the liberal soul and what you think the job of the left leaning press is.

              Republicans scandalize themselves through their behavior--all that's missing is press willingness to report it in a sustained, systematic way. That isn't some bizarre notion; the theory underpinning the free press has always been that it's the job of the press to act as a watchdog in exactly that way. The "left-leaning press" reports these items, but the "left-leaning press" (THE NATION, MOTHER JONES, this site) is microscopic; the problem, here, is with the right-wing corporate press that accounts for nearly all news media seen by the public.

              ---
              Left Hook! The Blog
              http://lefthooktheblog.blogspot.com/
              Report Abuse
            • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 12:01 pm ET)
              3  
              You lament that the press wont "scandalize" Republican moves?

              No... We lament that the press won't REPORT THE NEWS.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by Midnight Kevin (March 04, 2010 5:44 pm ET)
          3  
          I saw one response to the Democrat's possible use of reconciliation... the Republicans took the position that when they used it, they didn't make as big a change - their bill wasn't as large as the health care reform bill...
          -----------------------
          The Midnight Review
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 04, 2010 9:25 am ET)
        2 7
        It may not matter. As of 0745 EST, Bart Stupak just announced that a dozen Dems and himself will vote NO, unless the ABORTION clause is added to the bill.

        OK dems...what constituency are you going to throw under the bus? Take your pick!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by fantagor (March 04, 2010 7:10 pm ET)
          3  
          A dozen isn't enough to derail the vote. The Dem majority has enough leeway to withstand Stupak's poutrage.

          Randy
          Report Abuse
          • Author by highliter (March 05, 2010 10:13 am ET)
            1 2
            You do know that the House Version only passed by 5 votes right. The Senate version has no chance of passing the house.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by salg01 (March 04, 2010 9:46 am ET)
        3 8
        there is a huge difference between what repubs and dems have used it for in the past and the health care. Whatever obama can do what he wants, dems will lose HUGE in nov and the repubs will repeal it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 04, 2010 10:44 am ET)
          9  
          Yeah, the Republicans used it for tax cuts and welfare reform and were the first to use it for something other than the budget.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Fever (March 03, 2010 5:32 pm ET)
      15 1
      Democrats had better get used to the "shock" and "dismay" of their Republican counter-parts. Every thing they do for the next 3 years will be skewed to portray them as "un-American" or "out-of-touch". EVERYTHING.

      I'm proud of how Obama has chosen the high road, but I'll admit, it would be hard for me to have to face the daily negativity.

      And the Republicans are only doing it to stay in power. How nice.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by jcelia (March 03, 2010 6:29 pm ET)
        14  
        'And the Republicans are only doing it to stay in power. How nice.'

        They are doing this to GET BACK in power. That is why they are so nasty.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (March 03, 2010 5:43 pm ET)
      9  
      I think that this just shows how good the republicans are at getting out their message, and crafting it to their needs and or wants. And once again, this whole episode shows just how BAD democrats are at countering that message. As in, they should be talking about how reconciliation has been used in the past, and how it has been used by the same republicans now denouncing it as "un-democratic".

      Why don't the dems do this? I have no idea.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Midnight Kevin (March 03, 2010 6:55 pm ET)
        7 1
        Didn't you read that report that liberals are more intelligent then conservatives? They seem to give to much credit to the people they are sending the message out to. The Republicans send out simplified memos with catchy titles (nuclear option, death tax, etc.) and they sum up everything in one sentence.

        Consider Al Gore in 2000 election, explaining figures. George Bush called it all "fuzzy math" and moved on. No matter how much explaining Gore would later do, conservatives framed it as "fuzzy math", and for the simpletons out there, that's all it would ever be.

        Obama did a great comparison during the summit, when discussing less government regulation, stating that we can have cheaper food, although at an increased risk, by eliminating inspectors. Dems need more of this... they need to hire some GOP strategists!
        -----------------------------
        The Midnight Review
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Truth247 (March 03, 2010 10:56 pm ET)
          5  
          Except more Americans voted for Al Gore than voted for Bush in 2000. His electoral college win by 5 votes hardly gave Bush a mandate.

          Bush 50,456,002 47.87% 271
          Gore 50,999,897 48.38% 266
          Report Abuse
        • Author by dirtylittlereligion (March 04, 2010 2:41 pm ET)
          4  
          Of course.

          It's much easier to now just say "No" to everything. "It's wrong", "It's (insert fearbased political slur)".

          Label anyone that speaks intelligently as an egghead elitist, invent more scary buzzword laden phrases, and you're good.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by coldteablues19577325 (March 04, 2010 2:57 pm ET)
        4 1
        "Why don't the dems do this? I have no idea." --magnolialover

        Could it have something to do with the 'liberal' MSM?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Sharpe (March 03, 2010 5:46 pm ET)
      2 4
      Its because republicans have a spine - they really want or need to pass something and they disregard all objections and get it through by any means necessary and without any hint of bipartisanship. In that respect, I wish the dems were more like the repugs - This is what happens when you let fraud democrats into the party. Who needs a super-majority if you have a minority that is all in lockstep about what they feel is right or what lobbyists and paying them to feel? Certainly not the repugs
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Mr Blifil (March 04, 2010 1:34 pm ET)
        4  
        It's easy to have spine when your benefactors tell you what to say beforehand, and you know you are protected from embarrassing revelations of having held opposing or inconsistent beliefs earlier on. Republicans are spokespeople for a cabal of associated corporate/religious interests, and as such cannot exist in an unscripted environment. A compliant media empire is the single most important factor in preserving such an environment. Hence MMFA's raison d'etre.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Sharpe (March 03, 2010 5:46 pm ET)
        1
      Its because republicans have a spine - they really want or need to pass something and they disregard all objections and get it through by any means necessary and without any hint of bipartisanship. In that respect, I wish the dems were more like the repugs - This is what happens when you let fraud democrats into the party. Who needs a super-majority if you have a minority that is all in lockstep about what they feel is right or what lobbyists and paying them to feel? Certainly not the repugs
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Sharpe (March 03, 2010 5:46 pm ET)
        1
      Its because republicans have a spine - they really want or need to pass something and they disregard all objections and get it through by any means necessary and without any hint of bipartisanship. In that respect, I wish the dems were more like the repugs - This is what happens when you let fraud democrats into the party. Who needs a super-majority if you have a minority that is all in lockstep about what they feel is right or what lobbyists and paying them to feel? Certainly not the repugs
      Report Abuse
    • Author by egb (March 03, 2010 5:51 pm ET)
      3 13
      "Congress has been considering health care reform for more than a year". Not true. Only the D's have been considering this. They have rejected all reasonable thought. Furthermore, the plans passed by the House and Senate are forms of graft and should be rejected by legislators who are honorable. How can you vote to support the Louisiana purchase or the Cornhusker bailout or the SEIU bribe. Outside of government those are bribery and illegal.

      The plans are also not going to lower costs. When in American history have price controls been put into effect and shortages not appeared. The Secretary sets prices and content of insurance. That means price controls and he will lower prices because health costs are too high. That will drive doctors, hospitals and labs out of business. America is on the low side of doctors per 1000 population, and Obamacare will make the problem worse -- more like Canada where the number of doctors is even lower than America.

      O and the D's can't seem to understand what the problem is. It's not that people don't have insurance, it's that they don't get health care. The "health care" angle of this problem doesn't seem to have occurred to O. By taking over insurance companies and forcing prices down and giving excellent health care to 30,000,000 additional people and those who don't work, he is engaged in wealth distribution while he is destroying the American health system [which, by the way is the best in the world].

      Have you ever heard O state what the health care problem is? If he says it's that people can't get insurance, he's wrong. Lack of insurance NEVER hurt anyone. Lack of health care does. O is one-off on the problem understanding.

      If the D's and O pass the H and/or S bill by a simple majority, then when the D's lose control of the House, the House will simply not fund it. O forgot one thing. The entitlement doesn't begin for 5 years. If it is neutered or repealed immediately, no entitled person is effected. He must remain in control for that period or his wealth redistribution plan is very likely to fall apart. A D health care bill requires the D's to remain in control of the government. Especially, if the D's jam an HC bill down the throats of America, the R's will use similar tactics to neuter it, repeal it, or destroy it. The way Nancy and Harry are managing this issue is disgusting. They will be remembered in the history books as the two most corrupt simultaneous leaders of our legislative bodies in history.

      VOTE NO
      IF IT PASSES, DECLINE TO PARTICIPATE.
      IF IT PASSES, ELECT LEGISLATORS COMMITTED TO REPEAL.
      IF IT PASSES, CHALLENGE IT IN THE COURTS.
      IF IT PASSES, PAY THE FINE, AND SEEK INSURANCE ONLY WHEN YOU GET SICK.

      This is the most illogical, uneducated, ineffective health care bill imaginable. It should be destroyed.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (March 03, 2010 6:03 pm ET)
        12 1
        VOTE NO
        IF IT PASSES, DECLINE TO PARTICIPATE.
        IF IT PASSES, ELECT LEGISLATORS COMMITTED TO REPEAL.
        IF IT PASSES, CHALLENGE IT IN THE COURTS.
        IF IT PASSES, PAY THE FINE, AND SEEK INSURANCE ONLY WHEN YOU GET SICK.


        If it passes, if you already have insurance, like lots of people do, nothing changes. Are you going to decline to participate in an insurance program that your company already offers you? That would be silly.

        If passed, most people will like it.

        If it passes, what can you challenge in court?

        If it passes, luckily, you will be able to seek insurance when you get sick, because right now, you can't get insurance if you don't have it, and are sick. Nobody will cover you.

        Not having insurance is a sign of ignorance, as if nothing will ever happen to you, and if it does, then you can just go out and get it. As I said above, right now, take away your insurance coverage, then get sick, and see if anyone will sell you a policy. If they would sell you a policy, the premiums are going to be so high, most people won't be able to afford it. That is, if you can find someone to cover you, which won't happen.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by egb (March 04, 2010 11:44 am ET)
          2 8
          Not having insurance is a sign of wisdom and success in life. If you but health care and don't have insurance the overall cost is substantially less. Reasonable people have Health Savings Accounts [but government taxes them, driving up HC costs] and catastrophic health insurance. They pay about 50% less for health care than the insurance companies pay. That's one of the main reasons Americans pay 2x for health care.

          Obama care undermines lower costs by further empowering insurance companies and regulating them, thus driving their expenses up and the prices to you and me.

          I don't want a policy. I want health care. You are looking for a solution in the wrong room.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 03, 2010 6:50 pm ET)
        12 1
        The bills have already passed, you dolt. What they are talking about now is combining the two bills to make it into LAW.

        You people REALLY need to turn off Fox and hate talk radio because you have NO idea what is going on in the real world. It's really very, very sad.

        I might add that lack of insurance equals lack of health care in this country at this time. You are really, really, really uninformed and really, really stupid [deliberately ignorant.]
        Report Abuse
        • Author by egb (March 04, 2010 11:45 am ET)
          2 5
          Lack of insurance does not mean lack of health care. People get health care all over this country without insurance. Your statement is false.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by fantagor (March 04, 2010 7:14 pm ET)
            3  
            And they go BANKRUPT receiving healthcare for catastrophic illnesses, unless they are Rush Limbaugh.

            Your statement is a lie of omission, which is a step up from your usual outright lies. Kudos!

            Randy
            Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 04, 2010 11:21 pm ET)
            3  
            Since I'm a very good driver and lucky also, I'd be much better off if I had never paid a penny in car insurance premiums.

            And if I only knew that I'd never have a house fire, I'd have let my homeowner's insurance lapse. And if I'd known that none of my apartment neighbors were going to be careless, and that I'd never get broken into, I'd saved all the money I ever spent on renter's insurance.

            I could say - "what a waste" that was.

            Instead, I say - "what terrific insurance that all was in case I had needed to file a claim. It brought me piece of mind, and it served its task. And it would have been there if I'd had the need. Overall, it was a wonderful decision to have that insurance, and because of that same insurance, other people have actually benefited from claims that were submitted and paid for partially with my insurance premiums. It's a fair trade!"
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Midnight Kevin (March 03, 2010 6:57 pm ET)
        12 1
        Who is taking over insurance companies? You gotta get your news from somewhere else...
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© (March 03, 2010 8:04 pm ET)
        11 2
        EGB, are you a college freshmen who read Ayn Rand over the summer and just finished Econ 101a?

        Or do you have some other excuse?

        Here, let me help: The health insurance industry does not produce anything. They do not compete, they are a cartel. Like professional baseball, they are exempt from Federal antitrust enforcement.

        Your supply and demand curves and widget theory are laughable, youngster.
        ~
        Report Abuse
        • Author by egb (March 04, 2010 11:50 am ET)
          2 8
          You don't like insurance companies. We are in agreement. The best way to get back at rich people is to take their money away. Health Savings accounts would eliminate 90% of insurance company HC revenues and lower HC costs because people would pay doctors directly. [This is a verified savings - see Indiana Health savings accounts, Rush Memorial Hospital in Chicago, Whole Foods health plan].

          Catastrophic health insurance would be for the unexpected. All other health would be paid out of health savings account -- lowering costs and making UNIVERSAL (that means everyone) coverage immediately possible. HSA overdrafts would be covered by the goverment, but would have to be repaid.

          Current H and S bills are criminal except the government did it. If private person or lobbyist did what is in the bill they would go to jail. They are immoral.

          VOTE NO.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (March 04, 2010 5:05 pm ET)
            3 1
            All other health would be paid out of health savings account

            Too funny. People who can hardly afford to pay their mortgage are expected by idiots like you to open a health savings account.

            You really need to open your eyes to the real world. It's out there. Don't be frightened.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by fantagor (March 04, 2010 7:18 pm ET)
              3 1
              Where is written that people HAVE to eat and sleep indoors? These lazy folks who work three jobs really need to prioritize their spending habits. Sock $$ away in a health savings account, and if you're lucky enough to get horribly ill, you'll be able to access those funds.

              Working to give all you have to a doctor and a hospital: the America Dream Squared.

              Randy
              Report Abuse
      • Author by Jefe37 (March 04, 2010 12:47 am ET)
        5 1
        where to beging...
        it has been over a year involving the republicans. over 100 of their ideas have bee addopted including buying across statlines by way of an exchange. which is pretty much the center piece now.

        do we support the bribes to state legislators... uh yeah! if we dont like them we vote them out. what do we do if dont like the healthinsurance CEO using our premiums to buy a gold faucet for their private jet? if we were ever sick that means leaving the company for another will automatically mean that we have a pre-existing condition.

        what price controls? if you dont want to participate in teh exchange, Don't! that goes for people and insurance companies.

        you're saying that 30 million MORE customers will drive hospitals out of business and that we will need LESS doctors...huh?

        we ration now. whoever has the most money will get the best care. here and anywhere in the world for any service period. the fact that our system is so messed up that we would have to give care to those that need it most instead of those that can afford it first should make you sad. we have the best healthcare system? by what measure... only by the fact that the rich and powerful can get whatever they want. other than that we are 37th in the world accord to the W.H.O.

        health "care" is the problem? ok. are saying the silly children who are stupid enough to get lukemia should have exercised more? or women should have Mastectomies so they dont commit the sin of getting breast cancer later?

        yup if the bill is made law the dems might suffer or they might get the benefit. just asking the R's to get out of the way. the R's can defund if they get control back. unlike the R's the Dems believe in democracy.

        wealth distribution? I dont remember getting a say so when my wealth was used to kill 100K innocent iraqi men women and children. how about when my wealth was given the saudi princes, foreign companies and Dick cheneys oil buddies. I hated it! but you know what I did. I voted the republicans out of the house, the senate and the white house. I win! Scoreboard!
        corrupt leaders... I dont even really need to respond to that one...way too easy

        ok now that i have dismantled every argument you had. I'll await your apology for wasting everyones time.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by allan.masri1047 (March 05, 2010 11:28 am ET)
          1  
          Excellent post. All the points covered. Too bad it came so far down in the comments.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by allan.masri1047 (March 05, 2010 12:29 pm ET)
          1  
          Pretty long-winded. You overlook more important facts than the amount of money the top 5% of Americans pay. Like, for instance, the wealthiest 5% own more than 50% of all the wealth in the country. The bottom 20% own none of it.[1] Then tell me why the bottom 20% are paying taxes at all? Notice, this wealth will never be subject to any tax, since the govt only taxes income, not wealth.

          Also, the Republican tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 were supposed to create jobs and juice up the economy. They couldn't have worked, though, or we wouldn't have wound up with the worst crisis since the 1930's and 6 million people out of work. The idea that giving money to rich folks creates jobs must be bogus. But giving money to poor folks lowers the homeless rate and lets people plan for the future instead of surviving day to day.

          If you think this is nonsense, you should check out the countries least affected by the current monetary crisis. Yes, it's the same old crew, the Socialist countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland. They must be doing something right, right?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by AllanIsKing (March 04, 2010 12:41 pm ET)
        4  
        Lack of insurance NEVER hurt anyone. Lack of health care does

        But if you get sick and can't pay then go bankrupt?
        Is that your solution?
        Is this what we call "compassionate conservatisim"?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by coldteablues19577325 (March 04, 2010 3:05 pm ET)
        5 1
        "Lack of insurance NEVER hurt anyone. Lack of health care does. O is one-off on the problem understanding." --egb

        Except for the poor who can't afford insurance and therefore don't have health care except for local emergency rooms ... where one can die and lay there for a day or two before even being noticed. Oh, and use of the emergency room does cost me something whether it's me or John Q. Public who uses it.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 6:43 pm ET)
      2 11
      The difference is the tax cuts and welfare reform were things the citizens wanted. Reconciliation was not controversial because of those important facts.

      Socializing healthcare reform being ramrodded down the throats of the American citizenry, against their wishes, is what ultimately makes this controversial.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 03, 2010 6:47 pm ET)
        9 3
        Give me a break. That is probably one of the worst jobs of rationalization I have EVER seen. You FAIL, phony conservative, you fail BIG time.

        You do realize that those tax cuts increased our deficit by over a trillion dollars, right?

        No one is ramrodding anything down ANYBODY's throat, you idiot. Grow up.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 8:02 pm ET)
          2 11
          binky,

          Here's a little secret for you leftys.....tax cuts increase revenue whereas tax increases lower government revenue. It's called having a robust economy because the growth of the economic and therefore tax base responds accordingly.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:17 pm ET)
            14 2
            >>Here's a little secret for you leftys.....tax cuts increase revenue whereas tax increases lower government revenue. It's called having a robust economy because the growth of the economic and therefore tax base responds accordingly.

            Another "fact" made up by PC. Why, if tax cuts increase revenue, why not just decrease the tax rate to 1%, giving us even more revenue. But wait! There's a number lower than 1%. How about 1/2%. We should get even more revenue.

            But wait! There's a number even lower than that! How about 0%! If the government didn't tax, then it would have all the money it needed to support the military.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
              2 9
              Gee, then why do even leftys speak of tax cuts as helpful? or giving 'tax breaks' to businesses?

              Maybe they do get it.....lowering taxes means more economic growth, means more jobs, means more taxpayers, means increased tax base, means increased government revenue??
              Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:37 pm ET)
                13 2
                >>Gee, then why do even leftys speak of tax cuts as helpful? or giving 'tax breaks' to businesses?

                Talk about a moving target argument! You are completely changing your argument now. Your argument that tax cuts increase revenues is sheer mathmatical nonsense. You you proudly posted it without even thinking about it.

                Lowering taxes does *not* necessarily mean more economic growth. For example, when the tax rate was the highest, during the 60's, we enjoyed the greatest economic growth.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 8:46 pm ET)
                  2 9
                  somethingsmellinginhispants,

                  Now, let's see....hmmmmm. Now didn't JFK do something to bring the economy around.....hmmmm. Oh, yea, he LOWERED tax rates..... What do ya thing of that?

                  "Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government."

                  – John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by carlileb5935 (March 03, 2010 9:51 pm ET)
                    11  
                    Yeah, he lowered income taxes from 90 to something like 70 percent. He did not eliminate them, or cut them to the bone as the repubs want to do.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 9:57 pm ET)
                    8 1
                    >>Now, let's see....hmmmmm. Now didn't JFK do something to bring the economy around.....hmmmm. Oh, yea, he LOWERED tax rates..... What do ya thing of that?

                    I think that you are still avoiding answering the stupidity of your own argument. JFK is not an economists. The 60's *did* have the highest marginal tax rate. It did have the greatest economic growth.

                    If you and JFK are right, then why not cut the rate to 0%? Your argument is patently absurd, not supported by history, or by economic theory.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Jefe37 (March 04, 2010 12:22 am ET)
                      7  
                      I'll take this one everybody...

                      yet ANOTHER missinformed talking point from beck-hannity-limbaugh.

                      Yup JFK wanted to lower the top marginal tax rate...BUT he wanted to close loopholes for the the wealthy and for corporations. This was a compromise that would have resulted in HIGHER tax receipts for the federal gvt. thats why the wealthy OPPOSED!!!! the proposal.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by AMAZON (March 04, 2010 3:17 pm ET)
                    3 1
                    It seems most economists disagree with your assertion that tax cuts increase revenue.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by retiredinsf (March 05, 2010 11:30 am ET)
                        1
                      Tax Cuts
                      During recessions, the government will occasionally offer a tax cut as an economic stimulus. In rough terms, a tax cut of one trillion dollars over ten years will "give back" an amount equal to about one percent of consumer spending annually over that period.
                      The first question about tax cuts is, exactly how do they stimulate the economy? This is not a stupid question! Remember, if the government gives us a tax cut they'll still have to make up the budget shortfall somehow, chiefly by selling more bonds to American citizens (who happen to be the same people getting the tax cut) or foreigners (who will raise the money by selling us more of their goods and services, or buying less of ours). In other words, government spending will keep sucking money out of the private sector, only the payment method will be different.
                      Yet most economists seem to agree that tax cuts really do provide a stimulus. The real reason may be that they provide flexibility: people who want to consume more can use their tax cut for that purpose; people who want to save more can use theirs to buy up the new government bonds. This is the perfect scenario during a recession, when prior over-investment has resulted in bloated inventory levels and poor private investment opportunities.
                      (A less rosy way to put it: tax cuts are really a sneaky way to increase consumers' credit lines. If you spend your tax cut you are in fact spending borrowed money, lent to you by the people who bought the bonds. You'll pay the lenders back later, with interest, in the form of future taxes.)
                      Who Should Benefit?
                      The next interesting question about tax cuts is who should get them. Here is a summary of IRS data for 2001 showing who pays what:
                      This group... Pays about...
                      The richest 5% 53% ($470 Billion) of the total income tax revenue
                      The next 20% 30% ($260 Billion)
                      The next 25% 13% ($120 Billion)
                      The bottom 50% 4% ($35 Billion)
                      (Note: this is for income tax only. See the definition of payroll tax.)
                      The thing to notice is how much of the revenue comes from the upper brackets. That's the most important fact in the world (!) because it's the key to how both political parties approach fiscal policy. Conservatives argue that the bulk of a tax cut should go to the wealthy since they carry such a disproportionate amount of the burden; besides, they're more likely to invest their tax cut instead of spending it, and investment is where economic growth comes from. Liberals counter that during a recession you need more consumption, not investment; and you can afford to give significant benefits to practically everybody just by jacking up the tax rate on the richest five percent.

                      http://www.moneychimp.com/articles/econ/tax_cuts.htm
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by DellDolly (March 05, 2010 5:37 pm ET)
                          1
                        They don't care a disproportionate amount of the burden though.

                        They are best able to pay, and it hurts them the least to pay - that's why it's not disproportionate for them to pay that much!
                        Report Abuse
          • Author by ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© (March 03, 2010 8:24 pm ET)
            11 1
            ...tax cuts increase revenue whereas tax increases lower government revenue.

            Please remind Dick "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Cheney.

            Oh, and here's the facts.

            I know you right-wingers think that facts are inconvenient things, but perhaps you should start to rely on one every now and then.
            ~
            Report Abuse
          • Author by MadRiver Jack (March 04, 2010 8:19 am ET)
            10 1
            .....tax cuts increase revenue whereas tax increases lower government revenue.
            That's a faith-based fairy tale, PC. It sounds real nice (imagine, paying less and getting more!) but that little theory has not performed very well in the real world. It is a naive, idealistic dream to which true believers cling in the face of overwhelming reality.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (March 04, 2010 11:46 am ET)
            4 2
            I'm not a lefty any more than you are a conservative, phonyboy.

            You posted absolute nonsense in your post above, too. Decreasing revenues while increasing spending [two very, very expensive military actions] equals a very large deficit. Bush entered the White House with a surplus . . . he left with a GINORMOUS deficit. Show me the proof that these tax cuts created a "robust economy." Have you looked around? Tell me why my 401K started going south in March of 2008 and continued to do so until March of 2009 when it started turning around?

            Keep posting your phony conservative talking points. They don't make you a conservative, just a parrot of Fox/hate talk radio.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (March 04, 2010 5:06 pm ET)
            5  
            tax cuts increase revenue - proudcon

            Well, then let's just lower the tax rate to 0% and watch the revenue roll in.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (March 03, 2010 7:20 pm ET)
        10 1
        "healthcare reform being ramrodded down the throats of the American citizenry, against their wishes"

        There are many angles here (such as the fact that half the opposition to the bill comes from the left), but I'll go ahead and take the blunt one. (I don't speak for all liberals here.)

        Since the American citizenry doesn't even realize that Japan gets the same health care we do at 1/3 the price, I don't give the slightest crap what they want. They don't know anything about the subject and are too stupid to opine on it. They can eat what we spoonfeed them, and they'll like it.

        If this country is too stupid to simply copy what everyone else has already done, then it's too stupid to live in. Back in the day, America was an innovative leader. Now it can't even copy the obvious.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 7:51 pm ET)
          2 10
          steeeeeeeeeeeve,

          My oh my, aren't we unhappy with Americans. But it is nice that the lefty elite out there sure knows what's good for us!

          Intersesting comments about Japan and I googled an article on it.

          Here are some quotes from the article, they do some things better but even the title of the article introduces some basic flaws in the system.

          The government has largely been unable to reduce the length of hospital stays, which are four times as long in Japan as in the United States. Hospital doctors are often overworked and cannot hone specialized life-saving skills, according to recent reports by McKinsey. Statistics show that the Japanese are much less likely to have heart attacks than people in the United States, but that when they do, their chance of dying is twice as high.

          There are shortages of obstetricians, anesthesiologists and emergency room specialists because of relatively low pay, long hours and high stress at many hospitals, doctors and health-care analysts said. Emergency room service is often spotty, as ER beds in many hospitals are limited and diagnostic expertise is sometimes lacking. In a highly publicized but not unprecedented incident, a pregnant woman complaining of a severe headache was refused admission last year to seven Tokyo hospitals. She died of an undiagnosed brain hemorrhage after giving birth.


          and....

          Most doctors in Japan who jump from hospitals to private clinics double their income, according to the Ministry of Health. Medical malpractice insurance in Japan is not a major expense for many doctors, in part because there are relatively few lawyers. Oba pays only about $1,000 a year.


          but I will give this...

          The health-care system, though, does not deserve all the credit for the relatively robust health of the Japanese. Diet and lifestyle are generally healthier than they are in the United States. There is less violent crime, fewer car accidents and much less obesity. Only about 3 percent of Japanese are obese, compared with more than 30 percent of Americans, according to the OECD.


          So in the meantime, let's not socialize medicine here but make certain those poor, poor unwashed nare-do-wells you speak of, are still allowed to find a way to pay for health care without taking the country further into the abyss of socialism. Hey what about an American idea of personal liberty, freedom and responsiblity and letting capitialism do the heavy lifting to bring costs down. Some of that might actually include some of the good ideas from our friends in Japan!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
            11 1
            >>Intersesting comments about Japan and I googled an article on it.

            Yes, very interesting for how wildly bad that article is:

            link

            Harden offers a bewildering array of statistics on spending and cost. On balance, the sheer volume of these statistics only makes it harder to get clear on how much the Japanese spend. And he sometimes offers puzzling claims. Like this:

            HARDEN: One of the great strengths of Japan's health-care system—the ability to see the doctor of one's choice and be seen quickly—has become one of the greatest curses for controlling health-care quality and costs, experts here agree.

            Japan spends 35 percent what we spend. But in this paragraph, Harden discusses just one of the system’s “greatest curses for controlling health-care costs!†By the way: Regarding “the ability to be seen quickly,†Harden had already written this:

            HARDEN: To keep costs down, Japan has made tradeoffs in other areas—sometimes to the detriment of patients. Some are merely irritating, such as routine hour-long waits before doctor appointments. But others involve worrisome questions about quality control and gaps in treatment for urgent care.

            In Harden’s report, the ability to see your doctor quickly is one of the curses for Japanese cost control. And not only that! Routine hour-long waits before appointments is one of the trade-offs the Japanese have made in order to keep costs low!

            You might want to check the UN study that shows the US is ranked 17th in the world in health care--yet we spend over *double* what other nations spend.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 8:27 pm ET)
              2 11
              golly-jeepers, if only the UN could run our health care! They would be the only thing that could screw up socialized healthcare worse than our own government!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:39 pm ET)
                12 1
                >>golly-jeepers, if only the UN could run our health care! They would be the only thing that could screw up socialized healthcare worse than our own government!

                Anther words, you have no response to the fact that the US spends much more than other industrial countries on health care, and has worse outcomes. That is, no response besides a bunch of words like "socialized" and "government run" that you think make up an argument.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Mr Blifil (March 04, 2010 1:41 pm ET)
                4 1
                Current "private" healthcare system is a sham and a farce. Ask individual policy holders in California who are being asked to absorb 39% rate hikes. Do you not view the Insurance industries protections against anti-trust legislation a form of corporate welfare, perhaps even a form of, gasp, socialism...

                Insurance payments are too high, and there is no competitive market to bring them down. There's also evidence insurers are acting as profiteers, and routinely seek to deny the coverage their policy holders have been paying for.

                When will a conservative ever cop to the idea that insurers have screwed the pooch and richly deserve to have government solutions "shoved down their throats?" That's not all they'd have shoved down their throats, if I had my way. Oh I forgot, you're paid or otherwise induced to shill for the insurers on sites such as this.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by steeve (March 03, 2010 8:49 pm ET)
            8 1
            It's not the lefty elite. It's the whole friggin' world that knows what's good for us.

            Single-payer is a conservative position, if you take conservative to mean doing something old and boring that's been proven to work over and over and over again.

            When you quibble about petty, minor crap in other countries' health care, keep in mind that theirs is half price. When you compare health care across nations, some things are better and some things are worse, and it's all pretty much a wash. Only the money is not a wash. The United States alone is cataclysmically terrible in health care costs and we get nothing for it.

            "what about letting capitialism do the heavy lifting to bring costs down" -- after decades of epic fail it's time to try something else. This isn't even the least bit controversial. Obama is proposing a grotesquely neutered version of what is proven to work.

            Keep your feelings and labels in your pocket. The naked facts are kicking you up and down the room.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:57 pm ET)
              8 1
              >>When you compare health care across nations, some things are better and some things are worse, and it's all pretty much a wash. Only the money is not a wash.

              I agree with the first part of your statement. Faux conservatives love to point out flaws in other systems to paint them as inferior.

              However, I think we do have some pretty good studies that show the US on the whole receives far inferior health care. It's not just the UN study, for example. Studies look at things like infant mortality, access, etc.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by steeve (March 03, 2010 9:41 pm ET)
                7  
                Sounds like an interesting debate among the "elites" after we get single payer.

                Right now the 2% of Americans who are even acquainted with the cost difference are struggling with whether half price is outweighed by a slight upward nudge in wait times for elective procedures.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by carlileb5935 (March 03, 2010 9:53 pm ET)
            7  
            So in the meantime, let's not socialize medicine here but make certain those poor, poor unwashed nare-do-wells you speak of, are still allowed to find a way to pay for health care without taking the country further into the abyss of socialism.

            yeah! And those poor unwashed will be sure not to get YOU sick, either!!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by angels4light (March 03, 2010 7:38 pm ET)
        7  
        Healthcare is not being socialized, taken over by the government, or anything remotely similar. Shoot, even insurance itself isn't - the only thing remotely close to it would have been the public option, which itself would only represent another safety net for Americans in a limited range of income and without insurance otherwise so they STAY productive. Remember, these are people who ARE employed, NOT eligible for MedicAid, and NOT covered by a plan through their employer. AND, these same people would be PAYING PREMIUMS.

        Tell me again how this is "socializing" (nationalizing) health care, how it will COST taxpayers tax money, and hurt the business community. Please, and as Count Rugen said, "Be specific, this is for posterity".
        Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 04, 2010 9:48 am ET)
        4  
        PC,

        YOu seem to be considered about the deficit in most threads. You are aware of the cost of the tax cuts to the deficit, correct? Looking back on their consequences, would you still take the tax cuts?

        How is your health care changed by this bill?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by vwcat (March 03, 2010 7:18 pm ET)
      5  
      It would be interesting to see what the reporters say if MMFA asks them why they are treating this (and everything else between Bush's terms and Obama's) with such a double standard.
      I think it would be fun to start putting the media on the spot if they are held accountable for their double standards and are expected to answer for it.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by vwcat (March 03, 2010 7:18 pm ET)
      3  
      It would be interesting to see what the reporters say if MMFA asks them why they are treating this (and everything else between Bush's terms and Obama's) with such a double standard.
      I think it would be fun to start putting the media on the spot if they are held accountable for their double standards and are expected to answer for it.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (March 03, 2010 8:37 pm ET)
      1 10
      Dear Jamison,

      How does it feel to have your paycheck funded by this type of destructive action taken against the European economy?

      The presence of a Soros employee has set alarm bells ringing, as George Soros' formidable reputation as an investor – as well as a maker and breaker of currencies – goes before him. So far-reaching is his influence that any hint from him of negative sentiment towards an asset or currency can turn into a self- fulfilling prophecy.

      While the meeting may have been no more than an exchange of ideas, with no commitments on any side, the presence of so many powerful American financial
      interests in one room discussing the euro will no doubt fuel the conspiracy theories currently swirling around the foreign exchange markets and in political circles.

      The Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, has condemned speculators with "ulterior motives" for making his country's difficulties worse and destabilising the euro. If the dinner meeting in New York was part of a concerted effort to move markets it might well break US anti-trust laws. Conversely, other hedge funds have said they have avoided euro denominated sovereign debt for fear of regulatory retaliation.


      Just thinking out loud......
      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 8:48 pm ET)
        8  
        >>How does it feel to have your paycheck funded by this type of destructive action taken against the European economy?

        Sorros doesn't fund MMFA. That would make about the 3rd time in 1/2 hour you have posted something completely false. Is this how conservatives think--by just making knee jerk arguments with no basis in fact?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© (March 03, 2010 8:51 pm ET)
        4  
        Just thinking out loud......

        Right.

        [http://blog.shorto.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/fapping_1.jpg]

        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 04, 2010 9:08 am ET)
        8 1
        Could you trouble yourself to do some "thinking" about the TOPIC AT HAND?

        Do you have anything of substance to add? Didn't think so.

        You apparently missed the point of this:

        the presence of so many powerful American financial interests in one room discussing the euro will no doubt fuel the conspiracy theories currently swirling around

        That's a critique of exactly the kind of "thinking" you're engaging in here on several levels.

        ------------------------------------------------------------
        Try not to make it so easy next time.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 04, 2010 11:54 am ET)
        6 1
        Umm, Soros doesn't fund MMFA. This has been documented and the documentation has been presented to the folks at Fox who continue to claim otherwise.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jeannie35 (March 03, 2010 9:01 pm ET)
      9 2
      More of that Liberal Media Bias, eh? Our media just parrots Fox and Republican comments and responses. They are not interested in real stories, only the sensational, faux drama-driven, hyped up, non-issues like reconciliation. But to those that don't pay attention, this sure seems like something out of the ordinary. Bunning sure seems like he cares about the Pay-go (even though he voted against it). Charlie Rangel's no angel, but he sure ain't Tom Delay. I am waiting for the info overflow on Rangel's (therefore, all Dems) unethical behavior and, now, how the entire Democratic party needs to be removed from Congress because of the "culture of corruption." I am envisioning tomorrow's headlines. Does anyone challenge my perceptions?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by OOzinEvil (March 03, 2010 9:05 pm ET)
        9
      Regardless of when the GOP used reconcilliation. Our Presiden believed that a 61% majority, not reconcilliation is required to pass a health care bill. If you choose not to watch and respond you'll be wrong. BAM!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (March 03, 2010 10:02 pm ET)
        8 1
        >>Regardless of when the GOP used reconcilliation. Our Presiden believed that a 61% majority, not reconcilliation is required to pass a health care bill. If you choose not to watch and respond you'll be wrong.

        You link to Breitbart and expect us to take you seriously? Breitbart is the guy who pushed the doctored tapes of ACORN as absolute truth. Maybe you could find another source for reliable video.

        By the way, I can't view the video on my computer.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (March 03, 2010 10:19 pm ET)
        7 1
        You took us by great surprise! We don't know what to say to this...
        Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 03, 2010 11:31 pm ET)
        10  
        Yeah, MMFA debunked this lie today when Beck pushed it.

        It's a LIE! It's NOT TRUE.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 04, 2010 11:55 am ET)
        4  
        61% majority??? Where did that come from?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by theodore66 (March 03, 2010 11:25 pm ET)
      2  
      I believe they actually did cover it and told lies about it as well

      http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2003/fax20030127.asp

      So they covered it...lied about it and then it went through and HELPED businesses and more! Tax Cuts are Great. Now if those supposedly representing us would quit spending on pork and Ms. Nancy and her romper room folks would quit spending our monies and if Mr. My Staff did it and I didn't know about Rangel actually gave a crap...and didn't beg cheat and steal and have a double standard we might get somewhere.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by jflz201884 (March 04, 2010 7:28 am ET)
      3  
      To understand the mainstream media's ignoring of reconciliation on GOP tax cuts, you need to remember the stifling political climate in May 2003. George W. Bush had just completed his aircraft carrier strut in front of the "Mission Accomplished" (in Iraq) sign, the "no WMDs!" story had yet to break and the MSM were in thrall to the president. To question him on virtually any issue, domestic or foreign, back then was to be branded "unpatriotic." Being very afraid was all the rage.
      The GOP's closest approximation of a truth teller in those days was, intriguingly in retrospect, Sen. Chuck Grassley. In the first round of tax cuts, Grassley, Banking and Finance chairman,
      had talked Bush down to $1.3 trillion (from the original $1.6 trillion). Perhaps Grassley foresaw trouble in paying the piper in the post-Bush era.

      Jerry Elsea
      Report Abuse
      • Author by stringerbell (March 04, 2010 9:57 am ET)
        2  
        It's true. The media always had a huge mancrush on George Bush and reconciliation for tax cuts that cost $2 trillion over 10 years...that's fiscal responsibility!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by waicool (March 04, 2010 11:37 am ET)
      1 4
      yeah right, if you believe the premise that the media did not cover it (which I believe is a dubious assertion) then perhaps it is because there was nothing out of the ordinary for the congress to excercise appropriate measures to solve budgetary problems. Also, if the facts mean anything, the votes were coming from both sides of the aisle on that action.
      In the case of Obamacare; however, the reconciliation process would be inappropriate due to the fact that the healthcare bill is a policy initiative and not a budgetary item. Time for school folks. The Byrd is the wyrd.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 04, 2010 11:25 pm ET)
        4 1
        Duh.

        The ONLY portions of the healthcare reform bill that are being dealt with by reconciliation ARE budgetary items.

        You doofus.

        If you don't even know this, WTF are you doing trying to educate us here????
        Report Abuse
    • Author by deeeman (March 04, 2010 11:57 am ET)
      3  
      I agree- the media is not doing a great job. Look at how the media covered the overselling of cheap mortgages and derivatives, the poor reporting of the current state of our economy today, and the problems European countries are having with their costs. Does the media even think to check to see if there might be something we should know?
      Check Wikipedia for a good impartial article on a study of media bias.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Slow Cowboy (March 04, 2010 12:24 pm ET)
        3
      Actually, this legislation is an entirely different ball game. This will fundamentally change the government's role in every single American Citizen's life.

      This is a big deal to invoke this, especially when poll after poll indicates people are wary of the lefislation, and when so many promises have been made regarding the development of the legislation.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Mr Blifil (March 04, 2010 1:49 pm ET)
        2  
        You mean push poll after push poll, don't you? You're leaving out the utter repudiation of the status quo that your candidate suffered during the 2008 elections. That was a rather significant sampling of public opinion as well.

        All that will fundamentally change, with this legislation, is that hyperbolic conservative hatred of government regulation will be exposed, and demonstrated as irrational. The majority of us here, whom you are presumably seeking to sway with your comment, think that would be a good thing.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Slow Cowboy (March 04, 2010 4:37 pm ET)
          1 3
          Mr.Blifil, I disagree that this is an exaggeration. If any sort of national health care gets passed, think of the direct access to so many parts of your life that the government will have.

          This is not something that I take lightly, because frankly, it is not the governments business if I eat too much or too little, or if I smoke, or if I get the flu and need some medicine. They do not need to know if I have broken any bones, or have cancer of any type, or and STD. Fortunately, I remain fairly healthy with perhaps an elevated level of cholesteral. But even as a healthy adult, I do not want the government to have access to this information.

          They will if they get involved in health care the way they are talking, and do not kid yourself that once in a little that they will go away.

          I understand how you think that I am reacting excessively, because you do not think that the government will intrude as much as I indicate. However, let me ask a quick question: how do you react to the Patriot Act and its allowance of wire taps? If you react negatively to the government possibly listening on your conversations (though there is a small chance they actually will listen to your conversations) you, I'd argue, should be at least as concerned with the government keeping tabs of how many apples and Ho-Ho's you eat. This is because that information wields great power to an authority with the power to give or deny coverage, and to tax certain aspects of your life, whereas listening to a conversation with your sweetie gives them little power.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (March 04, 2010 5:15 pm ET)
            4  
            Wow, you are really, really misinformed.

            I'll make this simple for you. Health care reform is only going to affect approx. 3 million people. That's it. I wish it was more, but that's the estimated number.

            As always, you'll be free to keep your overpriced, under-covered health insurance that subsidizes CEO salaries and HMO profits for insurance companies that repeatedly deny coverage that results in death all in the name of profit.

            And, as with medicare/medicaid, the government will act ONLY in the collection of premiums and disbursements of funds to doctors/hospitals. That's it. No intrusion in you life.

            You're so frightened of the government, it's actually scary.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Slow Cowboy (March 04, 2010 8:33 pm ET)
                2
              Do you care to source the only 3 million people affected piece of information?

              Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (March 04, 2010 11:27 pm ET)
              2  
              He meant 30 million.

              Less than 10% of Americans.

              So quityourbitchin about how it's going to devastate you.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Slow Cowboy (March 05, 2010 12:26 am ET)
                  1
                I'd still like to know where these numbers come from 30 mill or 3 mill.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by laz00053 (March 04, 2010 6:06 pm ET)
      4 1
      What I don't understand is why progressive sites like MM and Alternet don't expose the ultimate goal of conservatives. Mainly, as Professor Paul Krugman put it back in 2003 "Starve the beast" Based upon Grover Norquist's plan to bankrupt the government.

      Conservatives up until Bush got nowhere with trying to cut programs and govt spending, so they went the other way, namely popular tax cuts and increased spending (ie Defense) to force the govt to a point to where it has to cut programs.

      This is why Republicans wail against the 500 bn in savings in Medicare by cutting fraud and abuse. They package it as taking money from seniors to put it into "Socialized" healthcare. Then falsely talk about how Medicare and Medicaid will go broke in 10 years because entitlements are too high.

      Conservatives don't want efficient govt. They want a corporatacracy. Progressives need to go on the offensive regarding conservatives trying to "Starve the beast". I hope sites such as this begin the charge.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Slow Cowboy (March 04, 2010 9:07 pm ET)
        1 2
        Its a little funny because many conservatives believe that it is they who need to take the offensive in such issues.

        It now seems they have some momentum and are doing a decent job of defining the debate.

        To the Dems credit, it is hard to be the party in power. Reps found that out 5ish years ago.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 12:24 pm ET)
        1  
        Amen!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Trolls12 (March 04, 2010 7:48 pm ET)
      4 1
      Honestly, the manipulation of US media by the republicans would make Joseph Goebbels proud. I love the US, but watching from the outside of what is going on, you are starting to freak me out. The polarization could not be more clear, and unless Democrats start acting and fighting this b.s. with similar tactics, you will take a big step towards becoming a facist state.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by papajohn (March 05, 2010 8:55 am ET)
      2  
      Which is why I keep complaining to Media Matters that you are spending entirely too much time on Fox News and letting the other networks get away with their lies. That wasn't always the case. You used to understand that the other networks are targeting the "Ignependents" because they know that they determine the elections. The goal of both Fox News and the other networks is the same (get Republicans elected and keep them there), yet the sham of CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC seems to now take the role of "less important" than what Fox News is saying to their guaranteed Republican voting viewers. I don't get it and it is making the most important organization to keep the media honest increasingly useless. Please get off the Fox News obsession.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by papajohn (March 05, 2010 9:00 am ET)
        1  
        Or better yet, try watching a daily news conference if Media Matters doesn't believe it. It isn't Major Garrett of Fox News that hurls the largest spew of Republican talking points at Obama's Press Secretary (Robet Gibbs). It is Chip Reid of CBS who is the most obnoxious along with Jake Tapper or ABC, etc. Every day.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by classicliberal2 (March 05, 2010 10:33 am ET)
          1  
          Back when he wrote words, instead of speaking them into a camera, Jake Tapper did some noteworthy work, but since he landed his current gig, he's one of the absolute worst among the cadre of lessers that make up the White House press corps, and seems intent on either tying or outright topping Brit Hume as the worst excuse for a reporter ABC News has ever assigned to that beat. His reports are a daily eyesore.

          ---
          Left Hook! The Blog
          http://lefthooktheblog.blogspot.com/
          Report Abuse
      • Author by classicliberal2 (March 05, 2010 10:19 am ET)
        1  
        Couldn't agree more, and it's something upon which I've been harping myself lately. Fox News is noxious, but the rest of the corporate press--that which reaches the overwhelming bulk of the public, and is functionally as far to the right, in its own way, as Fox--is the real problem. Taking shots at Fox is like shooting elderly, arthritic fish in a very small barrel. Fox-related items are insanely overrepresented at MMFA in recent months, to the point that it has edged out just about everything else.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by MaineiacMan (March 05, 2010 9:36 am ET)
        2
      What Mr Foser conveniently leaves out is that the 'reconcilliation process' was established by Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) and it is used on budgetary and taxation items. It IS NOT used on major transformative and/or social legislation. Senior fellow or not, his one-sided review of the process leaves MUCH about the process unsaid.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 12:27 pm ET)
        1  
        For the 10,000th time.. The bill passed the Senate. reconcilitaion is being used to get the budgetary aspect passed... As is the purpose of reconciliation. Understand the topic.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MaineiacMan (March 05, 2010 12:44 pm ET)
             
          It has not been used to pass the budgetary portion of a transformative, major policy bill. It has only been used to pass budget and taxation bills....which is the purpose of reconciliation.

          Do YOU understand now?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Jose3 (March 05, 2010 10:53 am ET)
        2
      Obama and the Democratic Party are so much better than the GOP.

      Why would they use the same tactics that they denounced not very long ago?

      Obama said you cannot govern with a 51 vote majority.

      Was he lying then or is he lying now?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by So Fain (March 05, 2010 12:28 pm ET)
        1  
        Fox News talking point and a gross distortion. Will not waste time on this.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Jose3 (March 05, 2010 1:11 pm ET)
            1
          Right on, why waste time pointing out that Obama is a liar. We already know he is.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by classicliberal2 (March 05, 2010 6:01 pm ET)
           
        Health care has already passed via a supermajority. The differences in the two bills that are probably going to be submitted to reconciliation will pass by something like 56 votes.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 05, 2010 5:20 pm ET)
         
      Mr. Foser is forgetting (deliberately omitting?) something very important. Congresses under Clinton and Bush used reconciliation to pass budget-related bills/amendments, which was the purpose of reconciliation--to reconcile budgets between the upper and lower house.

      While the health care reform bill certainly affects the budget, it is not a budgetary piece of legislation per se. The controversy stems from using this process to pass a law that would overhaul an enterprise, not a government budget. Perhaps this is why reconciliation is receiving more attention now than it did in previous congresses.

      I also wonder why he didn't search for similar coverage of the reconciliation process being used during the Bush 41 and Reagan years under Democratic congresses.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Disputed Zone (March 05, 2010 5:38 pm ET)
           
        Once again, the Democrats are not talking about passing healthcare reform by reconciliation. There talking about using reconciliation to make appropriate budget related changes to the healthcare reform bill that the Senate has already passed.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Disputed Zone (March 05, 2010 5:39 pm ET)
             
          They're
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 05, 2010 10:44 pm ET)
             
          Yes, but the House did not approve the Senate's bill and they couldn't find a compromise in conference. The House would not pass fundamental differences in the Senate's bill and the Senate would not approve differences in the House's.

          A Senate bill was approved by the senate, but it NEVER passed Congress. If it did, that is where reconciliation would be more appropriate and supported by more precedence.

          (I promise I didn't see posts with similar arguments to mine before I posted the original, although I see them now; I am not trying to parrot anybody, but I thank you for your time in responding to my post.)
          Report Abuse
    • Author by donwisconsin (March 06, 2010 3:35 pm ET)
         
      This debate over the economic value of tax cuts is ridiculous. I wonder how much economic benefit they would provide if they we accompanied by mandatory spending cuts. As they are typically carried out by Republicans, they get the benefit of making voters feel good in the short term and not having to dole out painful spending cuts.

      Politicians in general and Republicans in particular have increasingly turned to tax cuts to buy votes. Despite their current bluster, the Republican party is a scared and desperate organization, willing to say and do anything to remain relevant. We are all paying for their incompetent governance.

      Report Abuse