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Eric Boehlert
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The Pentagon shooter, insurrectionism, and right-wing bloggers

March 09, 2010 6:31 am ET

When news broke last Thursday that a deranged gunman had opened fire outside a Pentagon security checkpoint, wounding two officers before being stopped by return fire (the gunman later died from his wounds), the reaction from some oddly giddy right-wing bloggers was swift. They wanted everyone to pay attention to the story. Why? Because bloggers claimed the gunman, John Patrick Bedell, was a loony liberal.

Under increased scrutiny for the rampant anti-government rhetoric of the Tea Party movement, along with its often violent imagery and open talk of insurrection, right-wingers seemed anxious, even frantic, to hold up the Pentagon killer as proof that they weren't responsible for -- or connected with -- every political act of vigilante violence that makes headlines these days.

But as more details emerge about the incident, the far-right bloggers may wish they hadn't shone a spotlight on the disturbing Pentagon story. If anything, as we learn more about the anti-government rantings and writings of Bedell, this madman attack looks an awful lot like a string of other "lone wolf" attacks, such as the recent kamikaze pilot who flew his plane into an IRS office in Austin.

They're attacks that appear to be fueled by an almost pathological hatred for the U.S. government -- the same open hatred that right-wing bloggers, AM talk radio hosts, Fox News' lineup of anti-government prophets, and Tea Party leaders have been frantically fueling for the last year; pushing radical propaganda and warning of America's permanent, democratic demise under President Obama.

As I noted last year when the first red flags were raised about the specter of anti-government violence, what the GOP Noise Machine is doing today is embracing, and mainstreaming, the same kind of hate rhetoric and doomsday conspiratorial talk that flourished on the far-right fringes during the '90s. (Think Waco and black helicopters.) And legitimizing that kind of talk is dangerous.

On the one hand, right-wing media love mainstreaming vile, alarmist, anti-government rhetoric. Yet they're also hyper-sensitive to the charge that they're, y'know, mainstreaming vile, alarmist anti-government rhetoric and might also be goading some crazies into action. Consumed with Obama Derangement Syndrome, 'wingers literally cannot help themselves. Just this weekend, one prominent, albeit unhinged, right-wing site branded Obama as "suicide-bomber-in-chief." They've removed all sensible filters, which means the crazy talk flows 24-7.

Similar to the problematic birther brigade, the right-wing's crazy uncle who keeps showing up at public functions, radical insurrectionist rhetoric (i.e. war may have to be waged against the government) has been unleashed into the far-right masses and there's nothing that supposed leaders can do to contain it. They can't limit the violence that it continues to set off, either. Instead they scramble, like after last week's Pentagon attack, to shift the blame to the political left.

But the clumsy scapegoating doesn't work for obvious reasons: There are no major American liberal players, in media or politics, who today routinely preach the need to take up arms against the federal government. Conservative blogger Erick Erickson certainly couldn't point to any in his laugh-out-loud funny rewriting of history, in which he dutifully absolved the right-wing of any responsibility for anti-government violence, and instead blamed liberals.

Sorry, right-wingers, but you fostered this toxic environment. You're the ones who rally around Rush Limbaugh when he calls the president of the United States a Nazi. You're the ones who cheer when Glenn Beck compares our commander in chief to a dangerous, Hitler-like tyrant who wants to "take your gun away one way or another."

swastica obama lies picture

You're the ones who toasted the anti-Obama mobs last summer when members marched around with Swastika posters, brandished guns, and gave speeches about the need to wage bloody war against the federal government. You're the ones who compare health care reform to a bloody terrorism campaign waged by the government against its own citizens.

You cultivated this poisonous, arm-yourself-against-the-government hysteria -- and now you own it. You have to deal with increasingly predictable, and at times deadly consequences.

tea party protestor with gun

For instance, last year, it was Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), a right-wing media darling and Tea Party favorite, who said to Glenn Beck during an interview on his radio show that she wanted "people in Minnesota armed and dangerous" to oppose the Obama administration. She also stressed that Thomas Jefferson "told us 'having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,' and the people -- we the people -- are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country."

We've been down this road before.

On April 19, 1995, feeding off his hatred of the federal government, Timothy McVeigh drove a rented 20-foot Ryder truck and parked it in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City. His truck's three-ton ammonium nitrate bomb detonated and sheared the north side off the Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people and injuring hundreds more. McVeigh later wrote, "I reached the decision to go on the offensive -- to put a check on government abuse of power." McVeigh wanted to "send a message to a government" by "bombing a government building and the government employees within that building who represent that government."

Back in 1995, McVeigh, keyed into far-right conspiracies and still seething about the siege at Waco, declared war on the federal government. Today, more and more combatants seem to be signing up for duty.

Last week's shooter, who traveled all the way from California to attack the Pentagon, certainly expressed a dark and unstable contempt for the government:

When the government can control how private property is used, and especially when the government controls the monetary system that is use to exchange private property, the government has the mechanisms and the motivation to control individuals to the smallest detail.

And:

When governments are able to confiscate the resources of their citizens to fund schemes that need only be justified by lies and deception enormous disasters can result.

And:

The imperative to defend the freedom of conscience must lead us to eliminate the role of the government in education and leave parents and communities free to raise their children as they see fit.

As blogger Charles Johnson, at Little Green Footballs correctly pointed out: "If you gave a speech at a tea party rally consisting of nothing but the quotes from Bedell you see above, you'd get a standing ovation."

But today, far-right bloggers scramble to deflect the connection. They excitedly point to the fact that Bedell was a 9-11 "truther," who demanded answers about the government's supposed involvement in the attacks that day, and so that automatically made the mentally ill gunman a liberal. But wait, wasn't it a right-wing Tea Party candidate for governor who recently made news when she refused to knock down the anti-government "truther" conspiracy?

Indeed. Texas Tea Party activist and candidate Debra Medina appeared on Glenn Beck's radio show and suggested she was open to the idea that the 9-11 attacks were an inside government job. "I have not taken a position on that," said Medina. (It's the same insurrectionist Medina who told a Tea Party crowd that "we are aware that stepping off into secession may in fact be a bloody war. We understand that the tree of freedom is occasionally watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.")

And meanwhile, aren't lots of Ron Paul supporters famously attached to the 9-11 conspiracy theory? And isn't that the same Ron Paul who ran away with the straw poll at the recent Conservative Political Action Conference convention in Washington, D.C.?

And isn't the 9-11 truther movement's most famous advocate the conspiratorial radio nut (and full-time Obama hater) Alex Jones, who has been mainstreamed by Fox News? And isn't that the same Alex Jones who today complains that Glenn Beck's show now sounds so much like Jones' that Beck is just ripping him off?

From this month's issue of Texas Monthly (subscription required):

More troubling, [Jones] told me, is the way personalities at the top of the media food chain have been co-opting his message. Glenn Beck is the worst, he said. "Two weeks after I have a guest on, they have him on. ... Glenn Beck is literally word for word taking everything I do and twisting it and turning it into a Roger Ailes Fox News evil doppelgänger of my show," he said" [emphasis added].

Bloggers also pointed to the fact that Bedell was reportedly a registered Democrat as more proof of his allegiance to the left. But that doesn't make much sense, either. Are bloggers really suggesting that no registered Democrats have attended anti-government Tea Party rallies this year? Haven't Tea Party leaders been bragging about how they're attracting a wide range of disaffected voters? And in fact, haven't Tea Party leaders been stressing how wrong it is to assume the movement is synonymous with the Republican Party? But suddenly a distant political registration proves all.

For the record, I'm not suggesting that Bedell was a dedicated Glenn Beck fan, or that Rush Limbaugh made him do it. I think the specifics of this case are too muddled for those kinds of conclusions. But the idea that panicked right-wing bloggers can turn Bedell into a tree-hugging Greenpeace activist is ludicrous. The allegation doesn't withstand scrutiny, simply because dangerous, anti-government rhetoric is not part of today's liberal dialogue.

It is however, a proud cornerstone of the conservative one.

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    • Author by radicalcapitalist (March 09, 2010 8:42 am ET)
      2 25
      "simply because dangerous, anti-government rhetoric is not part of today's liberal dialogue"

      that's because liberals run the government, when republicans do your right back in the streets with your hitler signs and calling for the war criminals to be destroyed.

      the tea party's isn't the SDS or weather underground? they were anti-government weren't they?

      it's a simple message- less government , lower taxes and less spending.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Truth247 (March 10, 2010 6:10 am ET)
        2  
        As the author noted, anti-government rhetoric is NOT part of TODAY'S liberal dialogue. You speak volumes about what the left is NOT today when you have to refer to groups that were active FORTY (40) YEARS AGO to try and make your point about left wing anti-government rhetoric. What you fail to mention is that there were NO mainstream LIBERAL politicians who identified with, or promoted, the SDS and Weather Underground agenda. Today you have hundreds of right wing conservative politicians and radio, tv personalities who espouse the rhetoric of the tea party. Imagine if Hubert Humphrey had appeared at a SDS rally as Sara Palin has done with the tea party? Your attempt at shifting the blame for today's anti-government violence to the left just doesn't hold water with anyone who is intelligent and aware of where the right wing is trying to take America TODAY.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by proudObamasupporter (March 10, 2010 9:10 am ET)
        6  
        If they are not dangerous, why do they bring guns? Or carry signs threatning to bring them?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (March 10, 2010 10:51 am ET)
        3  
        that's because liberals run the government, when republicans do your right back in the streets with your hitler signs and calling for the war criminals to be destroyed.


        Actually they called for them to be investigated and our supposedly left wing government hasn't even done that.

        it's a simple message- less government , lower taxes and less spending.


        Wasn't that the same message before the Bush League spent 6 trillion and gave us the Patriot Act?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by txthinker (March 10, 2010 1:05 pm ET)
        4  
        it's a simple message- less government , lower taxes and less spending.

        A simple message from simple minds.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Whispers (March 11, 2010 1:32 am ET)
        4  

        It's a simple message- less government , lower taxes and less spending.


        Doesn't it bother you that when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, the Presidency, and had a controlling influence on all levels of the judiciary, that they made zero effort to achieve 2 of the 3 goals you list above?

        I didn't see any attempt whatsoever at "less government" or "less spending".

        I'm curious - does your brain freeze up at the phrase "prescription drug benefit"? What about "Department of Homeland Security"? What about "National Security Letter"?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by congero6189599 (March 09, 2010 10:55 am ET)
        18 5
        With comments like Faux is fair and balanced I see why you retired, but now you just appear tired. Thumbs down for lack of argument and creativity. Rush will be on soon to give you something to say today try and stay awake to hear them.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 3:48 pm ET)
          3 2
          Must be a missing comment or two here.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:09 am ET)
            5 1
            So, I note that there's a comment that's been removed by MMFA, and I get a thumbs down?

            Don't you rightwing fools grasp that behaving that way demeans YOUR side, not me?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Übermensch (March 10, 2010 2:33 pm ET)
              4 1
              But you are DellDolly.

              You could post a blank response and still get a thumbs down. Apparently you have fans.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 09, 2010 12:57 pm ET)
        15 2
        Gee whiz, reviledinsf, you're not even showing any imagination--you're copy-and-pasting your own statements. You made this same "point" here (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003090008), where it was both totally off-topic and completely taken apart.

        Despite allegedly being old enough to retire, you clearly have some growing up to do. Please give it a try.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by chamay0 (March 09, 2010 9:41 am ET)
      19 4
      What is wrong with our current society stems from the right. They have completely obscured stability and sanity and have decided to fall into the abyss of lunacy.

      That there are racists right wingers is a given, as well as there are clinically unhinged, lost souls, disgraced fools, utter a-holes, and completely lazy know nothing clueless angry people.

      This constant pretense that Fox News should be equated on the same caliber as other News outlets is ridiculous. In no way is Fox News even remotely a News Channel. Fox News' only purpose is to make noise, generate lies, cause divisions, plant seeds of civil unrest and promote (on some occasions) racial disparity. Fox's Fair is the equivalent of "all's fair in telling lies" and their Balance is equal to a well balanced mix of total disharmony.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by retiredinsf (March 09, 2010 9:52 am ET)
        3 31
        chamay: "That there are racists right wingers is a given, as well as there are clinically unhinged, lost souls, disgraced fools, utter a-holes, and completely lazy know nothing clueless angry people."

        What BS! I post a factual racist comment from a Leftist and your response is the Right are racist a-holes! See why I am convinced liberals are mentally challenged? And lost souls? Thank goodness I am fairly certain we won't see many of you leftists in God's World.

        You pathetic people make excuses for an obvious racist comment just because Rather is one of you. Very sad indeed. Not to mention typical liberal hypocrisy.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (March 09, 2010 10:50 am ET)
          9 2
          Blah,blah,blah...!!!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by angels4light (March 09, 2010 11:43 am ET)
          10  
          Your "racist" comment was already refuted elsewhere, by a Texan.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 09, 2010 1:00 pm ET)
          11  
          Thank goodness I am fairly certain we won't see many of you leftists in God's World.

          Do you want to argue theology? I'm more than ready.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 8:49 pm ET)
            4  
            I'm there with you. I can also recruit the services of my many SBC Bible professors who would have a hey day with retired's warped interpretation of conservatism and Christianity.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Quixote (March 09, 2010 3:40 pm ET)
          9  
          "... we won't see many of you leftists in God's World."

          We won't see many of you self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgmental hypocrites there either. If you read your Bible, what you will find in "God's World" is essentially a perfect society, which also happens to be a socialist monarchy.

          Now, just think of the irony of this. Most religions have a similar idea of Heaven as a socialist monarchy. What was it that Marx said again about capitalism as a primitive step towards socialism? And what was it that Jesus said about a camel passing through the eye of a needle, the meek inheriting the earth, and the money changers in the Temple?

          If you read the NT, you know the parts about Jesus healing the sick, sharing food, cohorting with criminals and poor people, criticizing the power structures and wealth gaps of His day, etc., would you say Jesus was more left or right? Be honest now, forget about the posters here, be honest with yourself.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by overmars jr. (March 09, 2010 4:54 pm ET)
          10  
          Thank goodness I am fairly certain we won't see many of you leftists in God's World.


          And since you think you have the right to judge eternal salvation, when only one can do that, you won't be in heaven anyway.

          You are not God, sir. So get you GD feet of his desk.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Johaely (March 09, 2010 5:21 pm ET)
          3  

          What BS! I post a factual(?) racist comment from a Leftist and your response is the Right are racist a-holes!


          Emphasis mine.

          And even though you are calling us lost souls, well at least we seem to have them. And actually can't to meet you down there in hell. Wouldn't it be AWESOME!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by So Fain (March 09, 2010 6:01 pm ET)
          10  
          Thank goodness I am fairly certain we won't see many of you leftists in God's World.

          Sorry. Jesus believed in peace. Jesus believed in caring for the poor. Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. Jesus turned the other cheek. Which of those is a right-wing value?

          Not one.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 8:47 pm ET)
          7  
          I'm sorry, but I'm a life-long Christian who actually lives my faith. Your ridiculous comment about "leftists" not being in "God's World" is asinine and completely and totally wrong. Did you every look up "right wing authoritarianism," retired? If not, you should. You are the epitome of that psychological phenomenon. NOTHING you say has anything to do with conservatism OR Christianity.

          You are incorrect on Rather's statement, but since it fits your RWA pre-conceived notion of the ridiculous "us v. them" game NOBODY will convince you otherwise.

          I'm not sure I'd be counting on God's World if I were you. You know Christ said that the most important commandment was to love God . . . the second was to love your neighbor. Based on your posts here, I just don't see the love, retired.

          Seriously, google Right Wing Authoritarianism. It's you, man, it is YOU.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by cameron19 (March 10, 2010 10:25 am ET)
             
          and your not...
          cant we all except the fact that we need an overhaul of poloticians and the religious retoric disposed of.
          Its fine to have love and faith but it should never play into polotics! NEVER! anything any of you have said these past couple of years about somone hating on another is simply becasue of each and every one of you...
          Left says ...he said this so he's bad, then the right says ...typical, opposite side defending he/she because they're on of them. ...then the left blows up because thats a boggus claim and not fair. ...then the right blows up because that previous one accused him of being unfair.
          When in actuallity, all of you have been acting like kids on a playground. No one can work together and come to a common solution for a more than common goal (heathcare) when somone is coming at you with a water tight closed mind, anger, ego and a big stiff fingr pointing at you saying everything that has ever happen is your fault (Bush was to blame, no Obama was to blame...your missing the point). Its never gonna work, so I recommend we purge all poloticians for new ones... sorry to those who are truly working for us The People, and not for SPECIAL INTEREST...!
          ...and for all of you who is going to claim my whole statment is wrong because you will admit that you dont believe one side is to blame for all curruption, then congrats and dont stop with common sense logic...qeustion all that the media says and never be satisfied.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by txthinker (March 10, 2010 1:08 pm ET)
          1  
          Thank goodness I am fairly certain we won't see many of you leftists in God's World.

          What makes you so sure that YOU'RE going there??? You may end up with a room in the Right Wing of Hell, near Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell, D. James Kennedy, and Oral Roberts.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Whispers (March 11, 2010 1:36 am ET)
               
            Well, if he doesn't go to "God's World", he certainly won't see anybody else there, will he?

            Similarly, I don't think I'll see any of you in the frozen wastes of Siberia - I won't be there!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 10:38 am ET)
        4 20
        That is so totally off the wall of a statement I don't know where to begin to counter it. First off there are lunatic fringes on both sides that are extreme enough to resort to violence. The majority of the country is neither far left or far right on 90% of issues. Only a tiny portion of the extremists resort to any type of violence and the ones who just demonstrated it were suicidal. Suicidal individuals rarely have an agenda outside of just wanting to take as many folk down with them. Did you read any of their manifestos? They were all over the map. Hard to say where they stood politically. Most folks on the left and the right complain about the other side but always site extremists like they are the norm rather than the fringes that they are. So before we go around yelling racist and and right wingers, understand that that is as invalid a statement as calling somebody on the left a communist.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 11:59 am ET)
          19 2
          To say that there are nuts on both sides ignores the obvious truth that most if not all of the last decade's worth of domestic terrorism came from the right, and was supported by it, MR Jensee.

          Show me a 'rabid left loon' who blew somebody up, or shot somebody, or flew a plane into a building. Then realize that you've provided one example to counter what? easily half a dozen if not more.

          By the way, the most vocal and most extreme group in the country right now are the Teabaggers.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 12:53 pm ET)
            3 16
            Lets see, Bill Ayers of the Weather Underground comes to mind right off the bat. They blew up buildings and killed a security gurard. How bout the Black Liberation Army. They robbed banks and killed folks. How about the Revolution Action Movement who morphed into the Black Panthers. The United Freedom Front was another leftist terrorist group operating in the United States during the 1990s. The group had a Marxist orientation and was
            striving for “a whole different system of distributing economic wealth in this country and
            an end to American imperialism”
            On May 2, 1973, Joanne Chesimard, a member of the Black Liberation Army, and two of her friends were stopped on the New Jersey Turnpike by State Troopers James Harper and Werner Foerster. While being questioned, Chesimard and the driver opened fire on the troopers with automatic pistols, hitting both of them. Chesimard then took Foerster’s weapon and fired execution style into the officer’s head, killing him. She was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. She escaped in 1979 and fled to Cuba where she was granted political asylum (McCaslin, 1998).
            William Morales, a bomb maker and member of the Puerto Rican separatist group FALN, lost eight fingers when a bomb he was building exploded in his face. In 1979 he escaped while recovering from his injuries in a prison ward at Bellevue Hospital. He fled to Mexico where he was arrested again after a shoot-out with Mexican authorities. In 1988 the Mexican govt allowed him to go to Cuba where he received asylum and began
            working on a doctorate in international relations (Howell, 1994).
            Victor Gerena, a member of another Puerto Rican separatist group, Los Macheteros, also received asylum in Cuba. Gerena participated in the 1983 armored car robbery in Greenwich, Connecticut, that netted $7.2 million. An Argentine-born former spy for Cuba claims that he helped get Gerena and some of the proceeds from the robbery out of the United States and into that country. The Castro government refuses to confirm his presence there (Morrison, 1996).
            There's a lot more I can dig up, but you get the idea.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 12:56 pm ET)
              16 1
              So, you got nothing for the last decade, do you? See, that's what I said, that over the last ten years, most if not all acts of domestic terrorism have been perpetrated by right wingnuts. In case your grasp of reality is truly as tenuous as it seems to be, 10 years ago was the year 2000. Not 1950, or 1980, or even 1990. Are we clear now?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 12:58 pm ET)
                2 14
                You didn't ask that. Your turn. Post Right wing Extremists who have murdered and bombed people. I guess just because they murdered more than ten years ago their victims don't count in your world?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 1:07 pm ET)
                  12 1
                  See, the definition of the word decade is a span of ten years. Sorry I had to point that out. Perhaps you and retiredinsf can share a dictionary/thesaurus set.

                  So, your definition of terrorist is simply anyone who disagrees with the current government? Guess that makes Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh both terrorists, doesn't it? Dang, it's even easier than I thought!

                  I must say, I think you're going to lose this one, MR Jensee.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 1:26 pm ET)
                    3 11
                    That's an idiotic statement. Terrorism is defined buy individuals or groups who purpetrate harm on innocent individuals as a method of bringing attention to their warped causes. Enviromental terrorism has occured in this country, they've set fires, killed people in the name of saving the environment. How about the grief that has been caused by animal rights activists? None of these groups you can classify as right wing. And if you are trying to pin the pilot who crashed into the IRS office in Texas as a right wing extremists, try again because I read his manifesto and he was all over the place on ideology. He was just a frustrated nut who hated the IRS. Please don't try to say that only right wingers hate the IRS cause I ain't buying it.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by overmars jr. (March 09, 2010 4:56 pm ET)
                      6 1
                      That's an idiotic statement. Terrorism is defined buy individuals or groups who purpetrate (sic) harm on innocent individuals as a method of bringing attention to their warped causes.



                      Yeah... Glenn Beck. Rush Limbaugh. Every weekday.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:15 pm ET)
                        1 8
                        Ok, now you are really reaching. Who pray tell have Beck or Limbaugh killed every day?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Logan (March 10, 2010 12:34 am ET)
                          4  
                          Harm doesn't have to be physical.

                          Van Jones was forced to resign. Limbaugh's victims are hounded by his fans, Beck's are too.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by overmars jr. (March 10, 2010 3:33 am ET)
                          3  
                          You did not say "kill". I quoted your exact words.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by 81againstthegrain (March 12, 2010 12:38 am ET)
                         
                      You're a flaming LIAR, no environmentalist has ever killed a single person on this planet. Property destruction is not violence. I'm going to break a T.V.- is that violent? No, violence is hurt being done to conscious beings, Dr. Jense, oh wise one. How dare anyone disagree with you, though, right?
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 3:52 pm ET)
                  7 1
                  Yes, he did actually reference the last decade. The fact that you missed that qualification isn't our fault. Your poor reading comprehension is to blame, MR Jensee.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:17 pm ET)
                      9
                    Yeah, I'm 60 years old. I don't see as well as you probably do. that affects reading. You going to insult disadvantaged posters now?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by redrage (March 09, 2010 9:36 pm ET)
                         
                      If you're eyes are bothering you maybe you should consider not browsing the internet.

                      Just saying.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 10:23 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Way, way up at the top of the page are three capital letter 'A's, ranging from small, to bigger, to BIGGEST. See 'em? If you click on the biggest one, it will make all the words on this whole webpage larger, and much easier to read.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:15 am ET)
                      6  
                      It wasn't an insult, you doofus. YOU were TOLD that you missed a relevant fact, and rather than going back to see WHY someone told you that you had missed a relevant qualification, YOU told them that they were wrong.

                      That has nothing to do with your eyesight.

                      Making a mistake? Nothing to be ashamed about.

                      Making a mistake, and insulting the person who tells you that you made a mistake, rather than trying to figure out your mistake and correcting it? Something to be ashamed about, you doofus.

                      Using your declining eyesight to ignore your actual error? Even more shameful. Then insulting someone who simply pointed out your error? Worse still.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 1:05 pm ET)
                11  
                Oh, and just for fun? Let's take a look at your list, shall we?

                Number of people Bill Ayers killed: 0

                If the Black Liberation Army robbed banks, then they were bank robbers and not terrorists. If they killed people in the commission of those robberies, they were murderers, and not terrorists.

                You mention the Black Panthers, and I guess are just hoping I'll assume they were liberal domestic terrorists? Because you cite no proof. Merely mentioning the name gets you a 0.

                You mention the United Freedom Front, and claim they were leftists and terrorists, but, with no source and no proof cited, again, this is simply an assertion. They ever kill anybody? Blow anything up?

                Joanne Chesimard and her friends are cold blooded cop killers from the story you tell, but killing police officers is not terrorism. So, once more, murderers? Yes. Terrorists? Nope.

                William Morales blew himself up, but he was also Puerto Rican, not a domestic terrorist, and that's granting that he was in fact a terrorist. Still no proof he was leftist, though.

                Victor Gerena robbed an armored car. So, clearly a thief. Not so clear? Any evidence he was a terrorist or a leftist.

                See, Theodore Kaczynski? David Koresh? Timothy McVeigh? All Americans, all conservative, and all killed people. Now, the Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995, so lets stretch that decade out to 15 years. That will give you a bigger pool to draw from as well.

                Care to keep playing?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 1:13 pm ET)
                  3 14
                  So find some right wing extremists who were part of the Tea Party. You claim they are Extremist terrorists. Yeah I can keep playing....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Another_Cat (March 09, 2010 1:59 pm ET)
                    11  
                    Wait, so you can have examples from the 70's, but everyone else's have to be verified as part of a movement that started less than a year ago (which it appears no one on this particular thread has insinuated)?
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Johaely (March 09, 2010 5:25 pm ET)
                    3  
                    keep moving the goalposts, you'll eventually reach a wall.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 7:34 pm ET)
                    5  
                    I called Teabaggers 'vocal' and 'extreme', not 'terrorist. Your reading comprehension skills continue to fail you, MR Jensee.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:21 pm ET)
                        8
                      No you keep changing the rules of the game Cat. Vocal and extreme can be defined in almost any perview where emotions are involved debating ideals. This site for instance can be just as vocal and extreme from what I have been reading here by the majority of the chimed chorus those who agree with the articles Media Matters posts.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 8:54 pm ET)
                        5  
                        No, the rules stayed the same, you just don't seem to understand them.
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 10, 2010 7:07 pm ET)
                    2
                  Number of people Bill Ayers killed: 0


                  Wrong. Bill Ayers group killed a cop in San Fran.

                  Didn't they get off by a technicality? Maybe that was for their own ham-fisted accomplice that blew himself up. Either way Ayers and Dohrn escaped justice.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 8:47 pm ET)
                    2  
                    Bill Ayers killed no one.

                    Facts. They have a liberal bias.
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 12:57 pm ET)
              12 1
              Please don't feed this troll.

              He claims he can dig up "more" examples, but one has to assume these were his biggest and best ones, and they fall flat.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 12:59 pm ET)
                1 15
                These came from a Government website, name caller. Geez the hateful anger here is amazing. Any of you planning on blowing up somebody?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 09, 2010 1:03 pm ET)
                  13  
                  Any of you planning on blowing up somebody?

                  No, we just blow up foolish arguments, which is why yours are dead.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 1:31 pm ET)
                      11
                    My my, aren't we testy.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by overmars jr. (March 09, 2010 4:58 pm ET)
                      6  
                      I think what you meant to say there was "You got me."

                      Right?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 10, 2010 9:21 am ET)
                      1  
                      My my, aren't we testy.

                      Hardly! I'm having fun. It's clearly you that got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

                      Or are you always so irascible that you don't even realize it?
                      Report Abuse
            • Author by Another_Cat (March 09, 2010 1:53 pm ET)
              8 1
              Weather Underground is the only example you cited that can be remotely connected with Democratic ideals. Puerto Rican seperatists? Come on, now.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 2:02 pm ET)
                10 2
                And, if I remember correctly, the Weather Underground was against something real and deadly, the Vietnam War.

                These nutjobs are acting out against imaginary threats planted in their heads by hate radio and Fox News.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 3:54 pm ET)
                  2 1
                  Yes, the atmosphere during the 60's is relevant.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
                  2 8
                  C'mon now. Should every medium remain silent so that some nut in some basement somewhere won't do something bad and blame it on something the saw, or heard or read? Have we become Communist China or the former USSR where any decent over policy is now silenced for fear of retribution? Is this what you REALLY want America to turn into? Think long and hard about that because it includes YOUR right to decent as well.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 10:06 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Wow, talk about a stretch. Example A for imaginary baseless fears.

                    (pssst: the word you're looking for is dissent)
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 10:33 pm ET)
                    7  
                    Saying that the government is trying to kill you, though, you'd support the right to that? Calling a doctor performing a legal service a killer, over and over and over again until someone finally takes up a weapon and murders him in church, you're okay with that? Comparing the President of the United States to every tin horn crack pot dictator and despot and outlaw in the history of the world, you're okay with that?

                    You ever ask yourself why they do it, MR Jensee? Why DOES beck compare Obama to Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Marx, Hitler, and yes, even Satan? It certainly has absolutely nothing to do with policy, because half of those mentioned are diametrically opposed philosophically to the other half, so clearly our President can't legitimately be compared to all of them. Why? Why do it? what other answer is there than the hope of violence against someone who is trying to lead us out of the night time of terror that reigned supreme during Bush, Cheney & Co.?

                    I'm all for dissent. I am an iconoclast, and there are few things I enjoy more than eating sacred cows. But dissent is not what Beck or Limbaugh does. What they do is more accurately described as sedition. They have no legitimate grievances, they bring no fact or reason or logic to the public policy debate. They bring only fear and hatred and a growing insanity. They don't believe in freedom, they don't really believe in America. They worship money, and have sold their souls to collect as much of what they value as possible. Neither is educated, and neither is intellectual in the slightest, and both are required for reasoned debate.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by yousaidwhat (March 10, 2010 12:02 am ET)
                         
                      well done, Cat, well done. That was so awesomely eloquent and well-put, I made my boyfriend read it.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by MadRiver Jack (March 10, 2010 7:22 pm ET)
                    2  
                    Think long and hard about that because it includes YOUR right to decent as well.
                    Right to decent? Decent what? Decent health care? Glad you're on board.

                    Perhaps you meant right to "descent". The USA has been on a descending spiral since the 1980s. It is time to reverse the descent and start climbing back to our former glory.

                    Or was it the right to "dissent". I value that very much. Of course to refute or criticize statements with which we disagree hardly constitutes an attempt to deny one's right to dissent. You, sir, have the right to dissent and I have the right to dissent from your dissent. It works for both of us, OK?
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by pilotx (March 09, 2010 11:01 pm ET)
              4  
              How are the Black Panthers a terrorist organization? They were formed to stop police abuse of citizens. In Chicago Fred Hampton was murdered by the CPD. Just because they had guns, legally of course, doesn't make them a terrorist group.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Whispers (March 11, 2010 1:42 am ET)
                 
              Do you have anything more recent than 1973? (I have never heard of the "United Freedom Front". I remember the armored car robbery in 1983 - but you're going to have to perform some real mental gymnastics to convince me that stealing $7.2 million is politically motivated violence.)

              On the other side, we have the Oklahoma City bombing, the Waco nutjobs, the IRS dive-bombing, the murder of Dr. Tiller...

              I'm just not seeing how both sides are equally bad here.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by 81againstthegrain (March 12, 2010 12:36 am ET)
                 
              Wow. You made it to 1973. With a frame-up job by the Jersey Police. You're such a scholar.

              A Puerto Rican separatist group. How relevant. The Black Panther Party. Those damn Negroes, do they ever quit? How dare they fight for their civil rights.

              You're so deep, like wow. I want to know you, I want to be you. The world has so much to learn from the Great Scholar MR Jense.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 12:56 pm ET)
            1 16
            Nobody in the Tea Party movemnt has advocated or engaged in violence. All the demostrations across the United States have been peaceful and orderly. You are suddenly against the right to protest when the representatives you send to Washington don't listen to you? How unAmerican is that?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 09, 2010 1:08 pm ET)
              8 1
              The rhetoric of the guy who flew into the IRS building sounded TEA Partyish, so did the rhetoric of the Pentagon shooter.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:28 pm ET)
                  9
                He quoted the Communist manifesto as well, a very left leaning political view. Where does that put him?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 10:07 pm ET)
                  5  
                  It doesn't make him a liberal or a progressive, that's for sure.

                  Try again.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 1:10 pm ET)
                14
              For balance, this is what I found affecting the USA..
              Timothy McVeigh, the man convicted killing 168 people in the Oklahoma bomb atrocity in 1995, is executed by lethal injection in Terre Haute, Indiana.

              Sept 2001 In the world's worst-ever terrorist atrocity, Islamic extremists launch suicide attacks on landmarks in the USA using hijacked civil airliners. Two aircraft are flown into the twin towers of New York's World Trade Center, which subsequently collapse, and another hits the Pentagon (defence department) in Washington, DC. A fourth jet crashes in Pennsylvania before reaching any specific target. Around 3,000 people are thought to have been killed in the attacks and ensuing devastation.
              11–30 September 2001 The US government calls the 11 September terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, DC, an act of war and pledges military retaliation against known terrorist networks and their state sponsors. With its allies' backing, US forces begin to concentrate around Afghanistan where the chief suspect, Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda organization, are thought to enjoy the protection of the hard-line Islamic Taliban regime.

              October 2001 In the USA fear of biological terrorism spreads as cases of exposure to anthrax by mail are confirmed in Florida, New York, and in Washington, DC, where a contaminated letter is sent to the leader of the Senate Tom Daschle and the House of Representatives is temporarily closed.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 10:38 pm ET)
                7  
                And is al Qaeda a bunch of tree hugging hippie libruls peaceniks, or are they hardline, conservative religious fanatics, MR Jensee?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 10, 2010 9:28 am ET)
                4  
                Gee, thanks for the history lesson about the incredibly obvious, Jensee. I, for one, am pleased to see that your list of supposed leftist terrorists (most, if not all, of which were shot down by others above) yielded hardly any victims, while the ones noted here--who are more clearly aligned with the far right--massacred thousands.

                You've done a spectacular job of disproving your own original contention.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Ruby (March 09, 2010 2:24 pm ET)
              12  
              Right.

              All those signs that say "We came unarmed...this time" aren't suggestive of politically motivated violence at all.

              The tea party organizer in Washington who called for a democratic senator to be hanged, and was met with cheers and applause by the crowd, wasn't suggesting violence.

              And the tea party activist who said that, if new people didn't get elected in the next election, he was going to be cleaning his guns and "getting ready for the big show", was clearly not suggesting violence either.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by cugagcmu805031 (March 09, 2010 3:03 pm ET)
                11 1
                And Michelle Bachamann's call to be armed and prepared to fight against HCR. In addition, calling the president and democrats Nazis, Fascists, Communists, Islamofascists, Marxists, etc, all words that carry negative connotations, giving their supporters the impression that it's okay to eliminate them from this country's population. Latest example of an incident which has the potential to cause violence: The state of Utah wanting to drive gays out of their state by passing legislation to that effect.

                Any time one group of people uses language that makes enemies of others, there is the potential for violence and for some of their adherents to take the law into their own hands. I'm sure you remember Bill O'Reilly, Dr. Tiller, and Scott Roeder and how violent rhetoric caused a man operating within the law to lose his life.

                There is no way to sugarcoat what is currently going on in rw politics for me. I'm someone who has spent a lifetime thus far dealing with people like these. I know when they are lying and I know the damage their words and actions can yield in this society because I'm one who suffered as a result of them. It's one thing to speak on a topic that doesn't impact you, but it's an entirely different ballgame for the person(s) who is/are targeted, and this is something you are incapable of understanding.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:35 pm ET)
                1 9
                But where was the violence Rudy. You've all said hurtful hateful things here, some have made threats to some posters on here. aren't they just as suggestive? Whether you gather on the internet or gather on a street corner to protest. If you are beating some poor black guy like the SEIU thugs were outside of a town hall meeting, is that violence? Or is is just suggesting violence. I submit to you, Violence incites violence Rudy not protest signs. If protest signs incited violence then they would be outlawed at all protest rallies and they are not.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 10:09 pm ET)
                  6  
                  like the SEIU thugs were outside of a town hall meeting

                  Liar. Never happened.

                  Try again.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 12:51 am ET)
                      4
                    Liar yourself. There's video. Think outside that little bubble of yours foghorn.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:26 am ET)
                      5  
                      No, there's NOT actually video.

                      See, we've SEEN THE VIDEO that there IS.

                      It doesn't show what you claim it shows.

                      It shows the very END of the fight. It doesn't show who started it, or why it started. There were no SEIU thugs. There just wasn't.

                      You've proven yourself to be a dishonest troll who's not interested in fairly and honestly interacting with us in any way, shape or form.

                      Please don't feed this troll any more.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by Ruby (March 09, 2010 10:15 pm ET)
                  8 1
                  This is what we call "pushing the goal posts". You said in your posts that the tea partiers have not ever advocated violence.

                  When they call for the hanging of a sitting senator or say they're cleaning their guns and getting ready for the "big show", that's advocating violence.

                  And your claim about SEIU beating up a "poor black guy" is unequivocally false and has been debunked.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 10:40 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Or when one of their ringleaders, Mr. Beck, makes jokes about poisoning Speaker Pelosi's wine, perhaps? I have a feeling nothing will convince MR Jensee, however.
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 10:36 pm ET)
              4  
              Well, you could always ask O'Reilly, or Limbaugh, or Beck how un-American it is to protest against the government. See, back when Dumbya was lying us into war, knowing full well that he was lying, it was counted treason and reprehensible and rooting for the enemy to point out the obvious falsehoods the administration was peddling in order to spill blood in a foreign land. And anti-war protesters? The scum of the earth is what they were called.

              Ah, but It's Okay If You Are Republican, I suppose. Right? Yeah. Very very very very very far right.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 1:29 pm ET)
          10  
          Hard to say where they stood politically.

          Off the top of my head, the guy that shot up the church wanted to kill all the Democrats in Bernard Goldberg's book, but since he couldn't do that he instead went into a place of worship and started firing.

          And there was the guy that shot the cops in Pittsburgh who was afraid Obama was going to take away his guns. Wonder where he got that idea?

          Face it. Violent rhetoric by hate radio and Fox News enables and gives justification to the violent nutjobs to grab their weapons and start shooting.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 1:41 pm ET)
            1 13
            Seriously if that were the case there would be violence on top of violence all over the country. I can only put these incidents in isolated nutjobs who are discontented with their lives. People do murder suicides all the time and nobody labels them right or left wing. We may be just getting overly emotional on every crazy incident. The state of the economy has caused a lot of unstable people to do some terrible things of late.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 2:00 pm ET)
              10 1
              I can only put these incidents in isolated nutjobs who are discontented with their lives.

              So your argument is that since there isn't alot of violence, it should be disregarded?

              Tell that to the families of the people who died in that church. Or to the families of the cops in Pittsburgh. Or to the families of Dr. Tiller.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:13 pm ET)
                  6
                Why would I disregard the lives of innocent people who died at the hands of irresponsible killers? That makes no sense.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (March 09, 2010 10:12 pm ET)
                  5  
                  I'll type this slowly - they're irresponsible killers INCITED with a feeling of JUSTIFICATION due to hate radio, Fox News, and nutjobs like Goldberg and O'Reilly.

                  If a crowd of people yelled at a suicidal guy to jump, and then he jumped, wouldn't you have some emnity toward the crowd?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 2:38 pm ET)
                    1 3
                    o'reilly didn't coin the term "tiller the killer"... he reported, the assassin decided...

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:55 pm ET)
                      1  
                      Operation Rescue may have coined the phrase "Tiller the Baby Killer", but it's O'Reilly who repeatedly used it on national TV.

                      He didn't "report". He propagandized. There's a difference. He misled, and distorted, and omitted relevant data all the time when discussing this topic.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 11:31 pm ET)
                        1 1
                        so he has blood on his hands, got it... the person actually convicted of the murder was merely a pawn in o'reilly's diabolical plan...

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (March 11, 2010 12:28 pm ET)
                             
                          The next time you "get it" will be the first time you've "gotten it".
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mookie von zipper (March 11, 2010 5:37 pm ET)
                               
                            that's impossible... because if the next time is the first time, then it couldn't possibly be the next time... but at least we're in agreement that there will be a next time, so we've achieved common ground...

                            and one more thing... got you last!... INFINITY!!!...





                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by 81againstthegrain (March 12, 2010 12:51 am ET)
                                 
                              Wow- you actually didn't get that, did you? You guys get deeper all the time!
                              Report Abuse
      • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 10:42 am ET)
        4 17
        Well if you discount Fox News as a news channel you have to also discount MSNBC as a news channel. They have looney commentary shows on just like Fox and are just as passionate about their position on the political issues. You can't call one out without the the other, they are mirror reflections of each other.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (March 09, 2010 10:50 am ET)
          11 2
          try as you may to wiggle from it,this guy was your nut!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 09, 2010 11:22 am ET)
            4 12
            And this girl is the lefts nut. No tin-foil hat black helo conspiracies form Eric on her...
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Übermensch (March 09, 2010 11:26 am ET)
              7 1
              also from the article:

              I tease. She’s a kook and her liberalism had nothing to do with this shooting.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 1:00 pm ET)
              7 2
              She was disagreeable about many things. She was strenuous in her beliefs, and so whatever President she were to support would get vociferous support. She teed off one family member with her vociferous support of Obama. That's it. There's absolutely no indication that any shooting she did had anything to do with her liberal tendencies whatsoever.

              Please don't feed this troll. He's just throwing mud, seeing what might stick.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 5:36 pm ET)
                3 1
                So far, all he's got to show for it are dirty hands, DellDolly. :)
                Report Abuse
            • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 09, 2010 1:09 pm ET)
              5  
              What political motive are you ascribing to her actions?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by cugagcmu805031 (March 09, 2010 3:07 pm ET)
                7  
                Imaginary ones, as usual. Some folks just love making up sh!t as they go along.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 8:58 pm ET)
              4  
              She committed the crimes because she was rejected tenure. Had nothing to do with her support of Obama. She killed her brother in the 80s . . . last time I checked, Obama wasn't even known in the 80s by most folks. She is extremely ill, mentally.

              Fail.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 8:56 pm ET)
          3  
          I discount all cable opinion networks as "news" networks. Next.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by highlyunlikely (March 09, 2010 9:46 pm ET)
          3 1
          sorry. false equivalencies are DOA.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by 81againstthegrain (March 12, 2010 12:53 am ET)
             
          I'll make that sacrifice any day. Screw MSNBC in the biggest way, if that got the right-wing hate machine off the air, so be it. Corporate news media can shove it.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 09, 2010 6:44 pm ET)
        1  
        What is your definition of "the right?"
        Report Abuse
    • Author by randy99 (March 09, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
      2 3
      I don't know how many times I have to point this out to Media Matters (and Eric in particular) but implying that Alex Jones is a conservative is wrong.

      He's an anti-government nutbag, pure and simple, regardless of who is in power. He hated Bush just as much as he hated Clinton and Obama.

      Just because Republicans ACT like they hate the government (which in reality they only hate when a Democrat is in charge of it), Alex Jones really hates the government REGARDLESS of who is currently in charge of it.

      Eric, you should know better. Do a little research.

      Randy
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (March 09, 2010 9:01 pm ET)
        1  
        Jones is tinfoil central. He's nuts.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:31 am ET)
        3  
        Didn't he call Alex Jones a rightwinger?

        That's different than a conservative!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by randy99 (March 10, 2010 11:51 am ET)
          1 2
          OK - maybe you can produce a list of influential "rightwingers" who hated Bush as much as Jones does (or even half as much s Jones does)?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:58 pm ET)
            1 1
            I don't care how much Alex Jones hated/hates former President Bush. It doesn't change the fact that he didn't CALL Jones a conservative, which is what YOU alleged, remember. If you need to be reminded, please read ALL of the posts in a string BEFORE you reply next time! It's only wise.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (March 09, 2010 12:54 pm ET)
      8 3
      Lookie here - another example of rightwing belief in a theory without any evidence.

      Boehlert's comment above is very apt.

      "They've removed all sensible filters, which means the crazy talk flows 24-7."

      These missing sensible filters cause these fools to believe in conspiracy theories without any evidence, like I said the other day.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (March 09, 2010 3:24 pm ET)
        4 1
        Who on the left is fomenting the kind of hostility and hatred that Beck and the other right wingers are?

        No one, and I think that's Boehlert's simple point. As to Denny's, I suspect there's more Republicans sitting down there than Democrats.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Leftylib (March 09, 2010 4:56 pm ET)
        4  
        retiredinsf is one of those guys who thinks that if you just act as your opponent is crazy, then that makes it so. For example:

        "you loony leftist libs kill me! you really believe that ice is cold!? you honestly appear to believe that the Sun is hot!!??? Incredible. How do you socialist loony leftists liberal left wingers become so uninformed? I mean, the things you say! Believing that the world is round. Oh, well, takes all kinds I guess."
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Splinter (March 09, 2010 3:53 pm ET)
      3 3
      You put a gun in my face and say lets debate (schools/healthcare etc, take your pick). That is extremist! That is the violent position!

      First put away the gun and then we will talk and solve each problem in a logical and peaceful manner. But as long as there is a gun in my face there is no chance for peace.

      Note: For those who dont understand the above. When I say gun I am refering to the force of the state which in essence boils down to a bunch of people with guns.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:34 am ET)
        3 1
        That's the looney libertarian version of reality. Our gov't doesn't make laws that rule our nation with the force of a gun. It's doing what their constituents elected them to do. You're just wrong here in your depiction of reality.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Splinter (March 10, 2010 4:33 pm ET)
          1  
          Oh really?
          If I dont pay thier taxes will they not take my property?
          If I resist will they not put me in jail?
          If I resist that will they not shoot me?

          Please elighten my as to where I deverge from reality.

          And yes they are "doing what their constituents elected them to do". Which is force thier will on me at gunpoint. The only just authority is consented to and I never consented to being robbed.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by poproxx77 (March 10, 2010 10:38 pm ET)
          1 2
          I think you are confusing authority with power. Force is the power behind any government. The will of the people can't execute laws. A vote cannot arrest someone who betrays the laws of a country. Can you imagine how many criminals would put themselves in prison because an elected official told them its what their constituents want.

          In the United States elections give our government the authority to create, interpret, and execute the laws. However, that authority alone can't effect any legislation, it takes force. The government ultimately has to have the ability to force someone to follow the laws or we would only follow the laws we wanted to. If the government didn't reserve to right to force someone to pay taxes how many people would pay them? The government has the AUTHORITY to put someone in jail, but they also have to ultimately use that authority in the form of physical force to gain compliance.

          It sounds like Splinter is suggesting Americans are being forced to accept healthcare/schools by the current administration. I don't think it has become that bad. Yet.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Splinter (March 11, 2010 9:28 am ET)
            1  
            Authority refers to a claim of legitimacy. What makes it legitimate? Is it because the majority says so? If the majority says slavery is legal does that make it just? You really need to step out of the box. Government is an illusion. Its is just a bunch of people with guns that says your going to do things our way or else. No more no less.

            "In the United States elections give our government the authority"
            So whatever the majority does is legitimate? I disagree.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 09, 2010 6:37 pm ET)
      2 7
      The allegation doesn't withstand scrutiny, simply because dangerous, anti-government rhetoric is not part of today's liberal dialogue.


      There is, however, dangerous pro-government rhetoric.

      The problem with Erickson and Boehlert is they are both accepting a grossly convoluted convention of the political spectrum. Too many people associate "right-wing" with Republicans and "left-wing" with Democrats. See Rokeach's "The Nature of Human Values" and Rothbard's "Libertarian Manifesto" to see how absurd and conflated these terms can get.

      If one accepts a more tangible spectrum, then identifying these people becomes easier: Big Government on the left, Small Government on the right. That being said, Erickson is wrong in his assessment, as some of those identified are inarguably anti-government.

      Did Boehlert mean for me to infer that the Austin pilot was a right-wing extremist by his associating the pilot with Bedell? He seems to have chosen his language carefully, so it's hard to tell. If he did, then he is wrong. That pilot's only consistent complaint was, not that the government was screwing him, but that the government wasn't doing enough to help him.

      Additionally--again, rejecting the totally arbitrary spectrum that Boehlert and Erickson seem to embrace--there is just as much dangerous rhetoric on both extremes of the Big- and Small-government wings. The difference is that the combined and concerted effort of the state against an individual is far more destructive than an individual can ever be against the state.
      Report Abuse
        • Author by Schwartz5534 (March 09, 2010 6:49 pm ET)
            5
          Thanks for that! I needed the solace of your witty remarks! (What is your definition of "Right Wing" though?)
          Report Abuse
            • Author by cArn (March 09, 2010 7:02 pm ET)
              2  
              I'm honestly getting sick of you posting the same two or three statements in every single thread. Please stop.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by MR Jensee (March 09, 2010 8:41 pm ET)
                2 11
                You might mention that to Obama. He keeps telling us over and over again in pointless speeches that we just simply don't understand his message when, yeah Barrack, we do get it and we don't agree with it and don't want it. Rewind the teleprompter.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by highlyunlikely (March 09, 2010 9:49 pm ET)
                  3  
                  please define "we."
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by The_Cat (March 09, 2010 11:00 pm ET)
                    3  
                    MR Jensee means all 70,000 people who showed up for the 9-12 rally when he uses the word 'we', I think.
                    Report Abuse
                      • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 10, 2010 9:35 am ET)
                        2  
                        Oh my, and you accuse other people of being testy? If you were only funny, you'd be a bad joke.
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by cArn (March 09, 2010 10:14 pm ET)
                  5  
                  First, my post wasn't in response to Schwartz5534, it was directed at another poster who was trolling. I flagged their posts and the mods deleted it, so my reply now looks like it was in reply to him.

                  Second, your post makes no sense. If Obama rewinds the teleprompter, wouldn't he just keep repeating that same message over and over???
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 12:47 am ET)
                      5
                    "Second, your post makes no sense. If Obama rewinds the teleprompter, wouldn't he just keep repeating that same message over and over???" By George cArny, that little brain of yours is just a clikin ain't it? You catch on real quick!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by cArn (March 10, 2010 3:56 am ET)
                      4  
                      By George cArny, that little brain of yours is just a clikin ain't it? You catch on real quick!

                      Hey, thanks! I take great pride in being complimented by the likes of you. I'm so glad we're on the same page that your previous post made no sense, and was just a typical cheap shot at the President, teleprompter and all. =)
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by political_left-religious_right (March 10, 2010 9:38 am ET)
                           
                        Guys like Jensee provide so much unintentional humor--saying you have a "little brain" when he can't even spell an incredibly in-depth word like "clicking" correctly.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 3:01 pm ET)
                             
                          I think he purposely wrote "a clickin". I don't think it's a misspelling.

                          But I don't disagree with your overall portrayal of this troll.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 3:20 pm ET)
                            1 1
                            Seriously children. Troll? Is this the best cheap shot in your vocabulary? It is really over used here. How about trying something more thought provoking like Troglodyte or Vulgarian. Something with some zing to to it.
                            Report Abuse
    • Author by grmce (March 09, 2010 10:29 pm ET)
      3  
      I am put in mind of Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr's comment in Schenk v United States concerning shouting "fire" in crowded theatres and limitations on free speech. Whilst I disagree with Holmes' application of the doctrine to Schenk in that case (the classic right principle/wrong case scenario) it is an important aspect of the law regarding incitement.

      I regard Fox News as "fairly unbalanced" and believe that a significant proportion of its viewing audience probably fall into that category as well. It is unrealistic for the management at Fox to contend that this is not so. As such it is forseeable that the extreme material that they broadcast will incite one or more of these people to perform criminal acts. I presume the same applies to other hate mongering media outlets.

      The only possible defence for broadcasting/publishing such inflammatory material would be public benefit as a calculated counter balance to any criminal act incited by the said material. That would be a hard sell to any reasonable person
      Report Abuse
      • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 1:01 am ET)
        1 4
        Since viewership of Fox News is triple of every other so called news network then according to you and Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, then there are 3 times the misinformed people out there getting their news than from anyone else. Wonder how that could happen that so many people could wind up dumber than you all these brains on here that know how to spell derogatory words so well? Wonder how many of them you might be insulting the next time you are standing in line someplace running off your mouth about how much more educated you are than they. Believe it or not I was in a theatre packed with over 1000 dumb as rocks Conservatives just the other night watching Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly yuck it up. Probably some of them were packing as well. Why, I'll even bet some of them dumb old and young folks were probably even Democrats. Wouldn't you hate to be sitting right in the middle of all those unbalanced people having such a good time laughing about them silly super smart Liberals?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by exodus (March 10, 2010 2:38 am ET)
          3  
          @ MR Jensee

          i've been reading this entire article and comments, and i still don't see why you are trying to defend your pathetic capitalistic government, and its wild servants Glenn, O'Riley, and the rest of them, it/they don't care about you it only cares about its money and the rich white people that are going to keep it rich, or in turn will buy the government out and use it as its puppet to silence all of us with their police and army whom don't fit in their perfect "capitalist image" you are beyond ignorance and you are solely trying to justify america's so called "benevolence", your not the world police, 9/11 didn't give you the right to wage a "a revenge war", and stop saying "we", "we" does not include neutralist, independents, and leftist, the "we" you refer to is the rest of those teabagging morons you try defend, the right wingers, and your insolent and ignorant children. Stay way from this site, you utterly fail at arguing with these intellegent men and women whom know right from wrong.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by seahawks123 (March 10, 2010 1:39 pm ET)
            2 6
            Yes Barrack Hessein Obama MMM MMM MMM!!!! That is why if given an up or down vote on Barry, he would be out of office tomorrow. You and your socialist theories that never work. All the countries in Europe that you love so well are bankrupt with high unemployment. It is you that do not understand how life works and want a cradle to grave society. Where people aren't responsible for themselvs. Millions of people have been killed either outright or starved to death by your heros. Satlin, Mao, Pol Pot, and anyother socialist/communist leader. And yes, communism and socialism are very close to eachother. So go ahead and think your smarter than people who DO NOT want Obama to turn this country into any part of Europe. Go live there!!!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by NothingButTheTruth (March 10, 2010 3:06 pm ET)
              4 2
              Congratulations!! You've just depleted even more of my hope for humanity..great job.

              if given an up or down vote on Barry, he would be out of office tomorrow.

              Seriously? Look, when I used to think my vitriol for GWBush was unfounded, I sat back and listed all the crap he did. After looking at the list (wealthy tax cuts, Katrina, Iraq, WMDs, NCLB, "The Pet Goat," His mother saying Katrina victims were better off in the 'Dome, etc), I saw that YES, that guy was horrible for this country and I am secure in my assertion.

              I have to wonder what YOUR (and other anti-Obamers) list looks like. From the crap you all bring up, I don't think you can make a list AT ALL without talking about some unprovable future of mights and he coulds that you're afraid of.

              I bet you think that there weren't any terror attacks against Americans until Obama's term, either huh?

              Talk about lost causes...
              Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 5:28 pm ET)
              2  
              You are a total idiot and a tool. It has been explained to you many times that MOST of Europe has unemployment rates that are either lower than ours or on par with ours, that only one of those countries with unemployment over 10% is from Western Europe (Spain) and the rest are from the former Warsaw Pact or the former Soviet Union. Only Greece is facing bankruptcy. Obviously you don't understand how life works since we do live in a cradle to grave society. None of those dictators are hero's of the President. Communisism and Socialism are not very close to one another. You are a complete MORAN!!!
              Report Abuse
        • Author by grmce (March 10, 2010 4:18 am ET)
          6  
          MR Jensee,

          Methinks thou doth protest too much.

          I'm sorry if you think I'm too well read - blame the South Australian Education Department and my parents who encouraged me to not only read, but to discuss what I read with others as well as sharing ideas.

          I see no vice in intellect and no virtue in pandering to prejudice.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by foghornleghorn (March 10, 2010 1:06 pm ET)
          2 1
          Believe it or not I was in a theatre packed with over 1000 dumb as rocks Conservatives

          Paying $20-25 for these two clowns to lie to you?

          I recommend reading Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean. It explains alot about the nutjob mindset about how they need continual confirmation for their faulty beliefs and hatred toward others.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 3:16 pm ET)
            2 1
            John Dean? Seriously, this is your reference material? Next time why don't you quote someone more credible, like a Marvel comic book perhaps.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by foghornleghorn (March 10, 2010 4:25 pm ET)
              1 1
              John Dean isn't credible? Now THAT is a trollish comment.

              I guess instead of reading his book, you should first read up on John Dean.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by magnolialover (March 10, 2010 4:27 pm ET)
              1  
              What is wrong with Dean? He actually did the right thing.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 11:47 pm ET)
          1
        this notion that fox is fomenting o'reillyian candidates is as misguided as believing that playing grand theft auto creates misogynistic thugs, listening to judas priest will make you commit suicide and listening to the geto boys will turn you into a murdering gangbanger... this is the kind of logic that prompted denis leary to remark "can i sue dan folgelberg for making me a pu$$y?"...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Splinter (March 09, 2010 10:38 pm ET)
        1
      Or...we could talk about the real violent extremists that are on the attack daily. The IRS. If you object to thier theft they put you in a cage. If you resist the cage they will shoot you. Sounds violent and extreme to me.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by jcalton (March 10, 2010 2:06 pm ET)
         
      "tea party protestor with gun"
      I'm assuming there is supposed to be an embedded photo here. (?)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 2:55 pm ET)
      1 1
      from the when-fox-news-is-lacking-any-right-wing-blogger-will-do dept:

      the entire premise of senior fellow boehlert's article is weak-ass-shiite... who in the hell is his first example, mellisa clouthier?... she might as well be some acne-faced adult offspring of a palin-tea-bagger living in her parents basement hopped up on mountain dew and blogging all day when she isn't playing bayonetta...

      the other more mainstream righties, such as michelle bachman, have said nothing untoward, seditious or treasonous and any other meanings attached to her musings and others are in the paranoid imaginations of media mattersers and their ilk, not regular americans who can read a constitution...

      reporting from murderland ranch,
      i'm mookie von zipper
      senior fellow, massmurdermedia

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MR Jensee (March 10, 2010 3:11 pm ET)
        1 2
        Forgive me. I thought I was reading posts by clear thinking adults but it seems I have stumbled on the blogs of unhappy 14 year olds whose mothers have banished them to their rooms. I certainly see why. You are an insolent group of children.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 4:27 pm ET)
          1  
          Well you've certainly affirmed the maxim: "Ain't no fool like an old fool."
          Report Abuse
        • Author by MadRiver Jack (March 10, 2010 7:42 pm ET)
          1  
          Forgive me. I thought I was reading posts by clear thinking adults but it seems I have stumbled on the blogs of unhappy 14 year olds whose mothers have banished them to their rooms. I certainly see why. You are an insolent group of children.
          If you're going to criticize people for making childish arguments and insults reminiscent of the schoolyard bully, then you'll have to refrain from doing the same yourself. Choose a personna, MR Jensee, and stick with it. Are you the mature, reasoned constructor of cogent arguments or are you the truculant child who gives as good as he gets? You can't credibly play both roles.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 11:27 pm ET)
          1 1
          no problem... but more likely, they're 30 year olds in mom's basement, a bitter group of neerdowells...

          Report Abuse
    • Author by poproxx77 (March 10, 2010 8:11 pm ET)
      2 1
      First of all this whole article is based on the assumption that Bedell was tuned into conservative media in the first place, mainstream convservative media specifically. There is absolutely no evidence that Bedell was moved to violence by conservative media. If there is please show it......

      Eric Boehlert's entire article is an attempt to tie right-wing media to anti-government violence. Speaking about conservatives, "You cultivated this poisonous, arm-yourself-against-the-government hysteria -- and now you own it. You have to deal with increasingly predictable, and at times deadly consequences."

      Eric states in his conclussion that right-wing bloggers can't turn Bedell into a greenpeace activist, because "anti-government thetoric isn't apart of today's liberal dialogue." But just because he isn't a left-wing wack, does not mean he is a right-wing nut either.

      What is obvious, is that he was apart of a fringe element. He believed not enough jews were killed during the holocaust. Suggesting that he, Mcveigh, or Karesh, were apart of the right-wing movement is ludicrous. There is no evidence, and the author of this piece is making ties where there are none.

      Eric also states in the conclusion that "For the record, I'm not suggesting that Bedell was a dedicated Glenn Beck fan, or that Rush Limbaugh made him do it." But this is exactly what Eric is suggesting. Violent anti-gevernment, rhetoric he states "is however, a proud cornerstone of the conservative one." Exactly what are you implying then, if you aren't implying that Bedell acted on fears promoted by Beck and Limbaugh?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by poproxx77 (March 10, 2010 8:24 pm ET)
      2 1
      Eric also quotes several of Bedell's blogs.

      1- It is legitimate, this isn't the first time the government controlled monetary system has come up in debates in american history. think back to Jacksonian era. But this quote in no way ties Bedell to the GOP, or the consrevative party. There is no sreious issue on teh right dealing with government controlled moentary exchange.

      2-Bedell was refering to Article seven in the bill of rights. As far as I know the bill of rights is not a partisan policy favoring the right. Again this doesn't make Bedell a conservative.

      3-This is about the only blog with any hint of conservatism.

      Please don't imply that Bedell was a arm of the right-wing acting on the promptings of Glen Beck or Foxnews. There is no proof.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 8:53 pm ET)
        1  
        Rightwing is NOT only Republican, you dum-dum.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by poproxx77 (March 10, 2010 9:19 pm ET)
            1
          Never implied that it was.

          Thanks for trying though.

          Perhaps you'd prefer conservatism to conservative party. Sorry. :)
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 11, 2010 12:32 pm ET)
            1  
            Yes, you DID actually do more than just imply that. And rightwing isn't just Republican OR conservative either, you dum-dum.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by poproxx77 (March 11, 2010 4:33 pm ET)
              1 1
              DellTrolly-

              Thanks. Perhaps you could make a point. Didn't your mother ever tell you you shouldn't say anything if you can't say something nice.

              I didn't at any point suggest that rightwing was only conservative or republican. I did however point out, on sveral occasions, Eric tried to tie Bedell to both. Else why quote Republican congress members, and implicate conservative media as owners of Bedell's violence?

              Or if you can't come up with a point, I'll see you for what you really are. TROLL. You chase my comments around and comment on all of them. Thanks for trolling, but not here.

              Report Abuse
    • Author by retiredinsf (March 11, 2010 8:38 am ET)
      1 1
      Regarding the God and heaven comments from you people. I have been taught those that endorse self-destruction (OK with terrorism) and murder (abortion) will not be welcomed into Heaven. Leftists endorse self-destruction and abortion so won't be welcomed. Pretty simple, huh?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by retiredinsf (March 11, 2010 9:51 am ET)
      1 2
      True representaive pictures from a Tea Party as opposed to the propaganda MMFA posts:


      http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/liveblogging-the-anti-obamacare-blowout-in-st-charles-mo-standing-room-only/
      Report Abuse

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