MSNBC's Carlson: Alleged Duke rape victim "a crypto-hooker" who "hires herself out to dance naked in front of and ... sometimes sleep with ... strangers"
Tucker Carlson asserted that the testimony of a woman allegedly raped at an off-campus party hosted by members of the Duke University men's lacrosse team "is to be taken ... a little differently" from that of "an ordinary person" because she is "a crypto-hooker" who "hires herself out to dance naked in front of and ... sometimes sleep with ... strangers."
On the April 11 edition of MSNBC's The Situation, host Tucker Carlson asserted that the testimony of a woman allegedly raped at an off-campus party hosted by members of the Duke University men's lacrosse team "is to be taken ... a little differently" from that of "an ordinary person" because she is "a crypto-hooker" who "hires herself out to dance naked in front of and ... sometimes sleep with ... strangers."
During a discussion with Wendy Murphy, an adjunct professor of law at the New England School of Law, Carlson disagreed with Murphy's assertion that defense lawyers for members of the Duke lacrosse team were "exploiting social prejudices against strippers" by publicly discussing unreleased photos purportedly taken at the party where the rape is alleged to have occurred.
Carlson stated that "the testimony of an ordinary person is different from the testimony of someone who hires herself out to dance naked in front of and, yes, sometimes sleep with ... strangers," adding: "It's OK to have a bias against strippers in this case, isn't it?" Carlson later called the alleged victim a "woman who is hiring her body out to other people" and added that although "that doesn't mean that she wasn't raped," the woman's "testimony about matters of sex is to be taken by ordinary commonsense people a little differently than the testimony of someone who isn't a crypto-hooker."
From the April 11 edition of MSNBC's The Situation with Tucker Carlson:
CARLSON: You said -- you said just the other day that the defense team these boys have hired, is quote, "exploiting social prejudices against strippers."
Now, everybody, apart from maybe you, knows the truth, which is, the testimony of an ordinary person is different from the testimony of someone who hires herself out to dance naked in front of and, yes, sometimes sleep with people, strangers, right? They're different. It's OK to have a bias against strippers in this case, isn't it?
MURPHY: No. Look, when you -- when you say things out loud like that, do you hear yourself? Do you go home and -- like, do you just bang your head on the wall or (inaudible) yourself?
CARLSON: What do you mean, do I hear myself? Not only do I hear myself -- yes, because -- because that is reality.
MURPHY: Are you kidding me? Look, we have a criminal justice system, Tucker. We have a criminal justice system, that I think henceforth will never let you sit in judgment on any jury ever, because it doesn't matter --
CARLSON: What? For saying the truth that every single American knows?
MURPHY: -- whether you come from the lowest walks of life or the wealthy white boys institution, when you come into the criminal justice system, the great equalizer --
CARLSON: The wealthy white boys institution?
MURPHY: -- it doesn't matter who you are, we judge you as equal human beings.
CARLSON: What an awful thing to say, Wendy.
MURPHY: What a great idea. What an American notion. We judge people on equal levels in the criminal justice system, except for you. Remind me never to pick you for one of my juries.
CARLSON: Wendy, Wendy, if you have a woman who is hiring her body out to other people, that doesn't mean that she wasn't raped, and I'm not claiming she wasn't raped, and if she was raped, the men who raped her deserve prison and I'll be the first to say that.
MURPHY: Blah, blah, blah.
CARLSON: I'm merely saying -- not blah, blah, blah. I'm merely saying that this --
MURPHY: You don't have to say these gratuitous things.
CARLSON: They're not gratuitous at all. You just said that, you know, I'm not treating her as a human being. I'm merely saying that her testimony about matters of sex is to be taken by ordinary commonsense people a little differently than the testimony of someone who isn't a crypto-hooker.
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means no supply. Yet the supply is demonized and blamed for the demand.
So by Carlson's logic - the alleged rapists should not be believed either since "normal" people don't hire "crypto-hookers" to dance naked for them.
Do right wingers ever spend even one second thinking about the ridiculous things they say?
I just wish I could give you a cookie right now, 'cause you deserve it.
Hmmmm,
I think Carlson is just angry that every time he goes to a strip club the ladies there ignore him. But seriously...Where does he get off saying that a strippers testimony should be any less than that of someone else. Wow because she uses her body to get through college? Wait isn't that what all the Duke players are doing too. They are using their bodies to play a sport. And to say that a women who is a stripper is automatically a hooker is equally stupid.
We all need to wait and see what exactly happened here. If the athletes assaulted the woman then they need to be punished. If the women lied then she needs to be punished. Given what I have seen so far we may never know the complete truth. But in the eyes of the court we need to hope all the people involved will be treated equally and fairly.
Being judgmental is actually a trait the right is actively promoting as a virtue. They’ve written books about it and I've seen many many of the right wing mouthpieces espousing this on the tube, they believe that the world has gone to hell in a hand basket because people became too tolerant. They want a return of the time where people where bullied and shamed into normalcy as they determined it to be. The return of shunning for those who don’t conform to what they consider normal seems to be their goal. Hence the relentless name calling of people they consider not normal which translates to mean not being like them. Now I would have had a hissy fit if my daughter had told me she wanted to be an exotic dancer, it’s too dangerous and to me it can perpetuate the notion in some men that women are merely objects created for their enjoyment. Nevertheless if a woman that isn’t under duress and of sound mind chooses this as her career, it’s just that her choice. What Carlson is doing here is practicing his duty as a conservative to be judgmental and crypto-prostitute is Carlson's way of calling this women a ho? And now that these people know how Carlson feels about their profession the commercial sex trade will come to end. See how that works?
Besides, many of these women are highly paid professionals. I bet many of them rake in more than Mr. Carlson. One of my very good friends was a stripper in the 80's.
Tucker needs a trip to Cell Block C to see what sexual assault is all about. Maybe then he'll be little slower to run any of his "she was asking for it" smack. No means no and exotic dancing is not prostitution nor does one's employment in that profession give anyone the right to rape the person who dances.
Tucker needs a trip to Scores.
Poor Tucker must have some type of mental illness, because he is alway insinuating such unAmerican nonsense into his show; he either believes that his audience is too stupid to notice or he assumes that his views are those of mainstream Americans. If the latter is true than he is suffering the psychological illness of cognitive dissonance.
Only the truly delusional believe that their personal opinions are shared by everyone. I do not recall being taught in college that well off white males are allowed a pass on looking down on strippers. Did these boys not hire the stripper in the first place? I don't think that she arrived to work expecting to be raped.
I did not realize that it is O.K. in America to rape prostitutes, strippers, and night club dancers, as long as anyone believes that they deserve it or "she was asking for it." Doesn't no mean no anymore, or is the definition of "no" just not known by the males at "Duck Ur." responsibility?
What exactly is a "crypto-hooker" and how are they different from your run of the mill hooker, your crack whore, your "escort" etc.
Tucker really knows his hookers....
I have no idea what a crypto-hooker is.
I have no idea where he got that phrase. Media Matters must not know either since they didn't explain it.
There have been hints in the media but I have not read any substantiated reports that she was a hooker.
Crypto comes from ancient Greek word κρύπτω or krypto which means hide or conceal. I think Carlson is saying she is a secret hooker.
Trust-fund conservatives like Tucker are largely products of liberal arts colleges where they learn Ancient Greek (and other equally essential survival skills) well enough to read various invitations to elite Washington parties and be able to converse (albeit rather clumsily) with William F. Buckley, jr.
Where do the trust fund liberals obtain their education? I would have thought from the same liberal arts institutions that Carlson supposedly went to. I wonder why it's okay for Carlson's interlocutor to spout sexist and racist slurs (white boys institutions) but not okay for Carlson to crudely label the "exotic danser."
Carlson didn't supposedly go to a liberal arts college. He went to one. I believe the link in my original post should take you to Trinity College's wikipage where it lists their famous/notorious attendees (Tucker didn't graduate, but is listed).
... that she's a hooker with a slightly more respectable job title.
It's to avoid lawsuits. If he'd just said straight out that she was a hooker, that might be slander--since as far as is known, she's never actually offered sex for money. But that little "crypto-" lets him call her a whore without technically calling her a whore. Why don't these people have the guts to actually say what they're thinking?
On the other hand, it's good to see Tucker took Jon Stewart's joke to heart and got rid of the bowtie. Now he looks almost old enough to shave.
I assumed it meant she sleeps with men to find the location of the Holy Grail.
You guys are just too funny sometimes. Carlson is just calling this woman a ho and in his world hos don't matter.
I had thought it meant 1 of 3 things: 1) A prostitute who has a second job cracking codes. 2) A prostitute who cracks codes while you are with her 3) A prostitute who makes you crack a code before she will sleep with you.
Am I off the mark?
"Crypto Hooker," my new handle!
Google found 3 hits for "crypto-hooker", on Louisville Magazine's website. But the links are all 404.
Here's the only displayed context:
"You got what You deserved, You crypto-hooker," Becky Lecron Poschinger says flippantly to a Woman across The room. that's not The type of language one ...
Must be in "inside" thing.
But Tucker Carlson is insane. Gawd these Right Wing spokespersons are all insane! And they seem to be getting worse everyday!
google cache of the first result
It's a line from a play.
In case anyone else is wondering what young Tucker is talking about, I googled crypto and one of the meanings is someone who adheres secretly to a belief or ideology. So a crypto hooker must secretly adhere to the ideology of hookers?
Tucker is a crypto idiot.
Carlson is probably not that far off the mark. She works for an escort service, often a euphmeism for call-girl service. There is also some evidence that this stripper had arrived at the party both 'impaired' and suffering from some previous buises. Furthermore, the timeline arising from the 911 calls and what was said by her fellow dancer create a serious credibility problem for her. There is legitimate reason to think that this is a business arrangement gone bad, she is mad that she had to give the money back and decided to get even by crying rape. She has been previously charged with drunken driving, car theft (stealing the taxi of one of her dance customers) and trying to run down a police officer with the car. She pleaded the matter down to a misdemeanor. Nevertheless, her character is in serious question. Lack of DNA evidence also suggests that no sexual encounter took place. Moreover, there is at least one report that says the hospital rape exam observed bruising consistent with an assault, but does not say the assault was sexual in nature.
YOU STATED:
"Lack of DNA evidence also suggests that no sexual encounter took place."
That's ridiculous. Lack of DNA evidence does not suggest that no sexual encounter took place.
Thanks for solving the case, everybody can go home now. BTW I'm addicted to the Law and Order franchise too but I don't believe myself to be a police detective, prosecutor, defense attorney, or judge. You’re all of them huh?
I don't believe myself to be a police detective, prosecutor, defense attorney, or judge. You’re all of them huh?
Pretty close; I've been a lawyer for almost 40 years.
Look, the only point here is to observe that there is evidence (or lack of it) that points both ways. I'm no great fan of Carlson, but he is making a legitimate point -- that she is a stealth (crypto) part of the sex trade (naked dancer, escort) and that the business has always has provided difficulties of proof. Extortion is not uncommon. The 'badger game' has numerous permutations and can easily fit within revenge thinking. (In yesterday's news, there is a police report that she may have been too drunk to even remember what happened.)
We need to look at all the possibilities without rushing to judgment. Scornfulness of objective assessment doesn't contribute to that atmosphere.
(And, contrary to Worrierking's comment that lack of DNA does not suggest no sexual behavior occurred, it leans more that direction than any other. Sure it's not conclusive, but 'suggest' is the accurate way of expressing it.)
On Monday, we'll see if an indictment comes. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Just remember, most DA's can indict a ham sandwich, mainly because they don't have to present known exculpatory evidence. This DA is running for election at the end of May. Might that factor into his thinking?
..because he's just a crypto-hooker for the Republicans.
You don't mean to imply that Carlson SELLS HIS BODY for cash, do you? That his throat and his tongue are for hire to the highest bidder, and he will perform whatever acts WITH his body parts that are demanded by his customer?
In any event, I know what Carlson is talking about. He hears "exotic dancer", and he is no longer impartial. He has formed his "less than normal human" image in stereotypical form, and would not be able to listen to the actual EVIDENCE unbiased. "Strippers" are guilty to begin with, and their innocence cannot be proved in court. Such is the rightwing view of "justice".
I know what Carlson is talking about, because I would have to excuse myself from any trial involving Republican politicians (and there will be a LOT of those coming up!). I've already made up my mind about their character. So I'm as bad as Tucker.
ususally irritates me but she was so good against Tucker and then I saw her on O'Reilly and she even gave it to him and made a comment about his "no spin" . I am so tired of criminal cases being tried in the public even before all the evidence is gathered.
I have never heard of the rare crypto-hooker. However, I have all too common pseudo-intellectual -- case in point Tucker Carlson.
However, I have all too common pseudo-intellectual...
should read
However, I have heard of the all too common pseudo-intellectual...
My bag
I sent this in to MediaMatters as a tip! Glad to see they picked it up.
Carlson's a weasel in a bow tie.
First of all, I would never defend rapists. So if this woman at any point in the evening became unwilling she should be treated the same as any other person charging rape.
But I think what has a lot of people (myself included) thinking that she is a "crypto-hooker" is the report that she and her friend charged $800 for ten minutes of dancing. If that is true, I tend to think that these guys had a reasonable expectation that more would happen that evening.
I have no idea what the going rate is for strippers or hookers in Durham, NC, but an hourly rate of $2,400 to strip seems a little high.
"But I think what has a lot of people (myself included) thinking that she is a "crypto-hooker" is the report that she and her friend charged $800 for ten minutes of dancing. If that is true, I tend to think that these guys had a reasonable expectation that more would happen that evening. "
So you are saying because the boys expected more, the girls are possibly hookers? What does this say about the boys? IF they thought they were getting more, then add one more thing to the list of illegal activities of these boys. No lawyer would use this as a defense in court, but I am sure they would be happy to have talk shows make these claims for them and never have to mention it in court.
You're absolutely right. I think these guys are creeps for setting the whole thing up to begin with. I'm not defending them, just trying to get a handle on what these girls really are and why Bow-tie Boy called them "crypto-hookers".
$800 for "a few minute's work" means I should be getting SEX as well? Stunning. I've got to pay a visit to my auto mechinic, my plumber, and my attorney.
Won't THEY be surprised!
All three of them are screwing you anyway...
"If that is true, I tend to think that these guys had a reasonable expectation that more would happen that evening."
More? Like what? Do tell. Please.
A happy ending...
"Crypto-hookers" are to be deemed guilty, until proven innocent? I must admit that at times Wendy Murphy frequently turns my stomach with her belligerence. But she actually managed not to come through my Philco floor model and still make a strong argument against one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. Ms. Murphy, give me five! Ain't life funny?
The only way Tucker Carlson can get any attention in the media is by insulting someone. I never see this guy on the tube but everytime i see his name in print it's because he's insulting someone. what a great way to support your family and feed your children.......insulting people.
I had to listen to that three time. I still don't know exactly what to think about it.
what in the world is a 'crypto-hooker'?
. . . he's an IDIOT, PERIOD . . . as is anyone who thinks that simply because someone works as an exoctic dancer that automatically makes them also a hooker and that if they are raped/sexually assaulted there should be no consequences for the rapists . . .
I think when he said crypto-hooker, he was referring to her job at an escort service, which is different than her former job as a dancer. It's true that no one can comment on whether she did or didn't have sex with anyone for money as a career, but I think also that's the point. If you work for an escort service, people will doubt that you aren't having sex for money, and therein lies the credibility problem from a legal standpoint, which is what Carlson was talking about. This has nothing to do with the actual events at that house or the facts.
My apologies for bringing analysis into this, as it is impossible to talk about this case without being accused of taking a side. Feel free to flame me as a Carlson apologist, ne0-rapist, or the like. I feel that misanalysis on Media Matters only weakens its reputation, and hate to see it happen as I believe it to be a necessary and beneficial organization.
I agree with you on this 90%, we still don't know what happened. When I heard that there was NO DNA EVIDENCE, that made me suspicious about her claim to being raped. Has NOTHING to do, for me anyway, whether she was a paid escort, dancer, call girl - makes no difference to me, she is absolutely entitled to have her case prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I just have an issue with the fact that from her version of events, there should have been SOME physical evidence linking the boys to the crime. To me this in no way absolves the lacrosse team from blame - but it definitely makes me take pause before pointing a finger - I have - strictly on what I know now, which is only what the media has reported ( which, as we all know, is of questionable reliability ) - a reasonable doubt as to the events in question. The 10% I disagree with you on? Tucker should stick to facts and not apply his own labels - the words he chose to describe her were intended to create a negative impression of her and cast doubt on her claims - he should stick to the facts - I mean, did he refer to the lacrosse team as a bunch of whoremongers?
She kicked his ass, plain and simple. Tucker--whom I don't think is a terrible person--will be embarrassed to hear that back in a couple years.
I enjoy particularly that after what he said he had the nerve to be offended by the phrase, "The wealthy white boys institution"
If she is telling the truth, a horrible thing has been done. If she is lying, a horrible thing has been done.
Certainly members of the lacrosse team should be held accountable for what the have said and did regardless of this outcome. But I personally think the blanket judgment of all members of the lacrosse team is ridiculous. George Soros is wealthy and white, no criticism of him is there? You can criticize individual members of the lacrosse team for their actions, and rightly so, but I doubt that as a group any athletic men's team is any more progressive on woman's rights, including poor black colleges.
Prejudice is prejudice, black, white, rich or poor. You can't criticize people for being racists unless you hold yourself to a higher standard. 40% of Duke students receive financial aid. I doubt anybody truly has statistics on the lacrosse team.
Should the woman be lying, and I hate to say it, but Media Matters won't have the resources to document what the Right will say about it, and it will be uglier than anything heard before.
Long before this, 'lacrosse player' has been a synonym in neighborhoods near a number of universities for obnoxious, aggressive, destructive drunk.
I am amazed that coverage of the Duke matter has not included a variety of incidents over the last two or three decades involving NCAA lacrosse players off the field. Just off the top of my head, I vaguely remember a New England state school (Vermont?) calling off a season several years ago for alcohol problems; some other schools' players facing assault charges or something violent; and a well-publicized date rape accusation against a Johns Hopkins player, whose team had the year before been accused of destroying their rental house ($100k of damages), running an illegal bar, and firing BB guns at a playground.
Destroying buildings is apparently a lacrosse tradition, as is terrorizing neighborhoods, and I bet if you surveyed the neighbors of all NCAA lacrosse teams you'd find that "lacrosse player" is a much dirtier word than "stripper".
She still is an alleged rape victim. Again, she is smeared, and the alleged rape is being downplayed. There is no word from those who attack the woman about the alleged rapists, and when there is, there history is being marginalized as "that is not as bad as stealing a car" (what the victim has been reported did) and "they, as athletes, are easy targets". I heard that Duke Students and parents are being helped by some group that want to 'protect them from abuse' etc. If that were true, I do have an idea about where the 'information' about the case and the victim come from.
Further, when nothing has happened, the victim will be tried and jailed, and the guys can and will continue like nothing happened. However, it has not been the first time that a group of rapists don't come forward because most are afraid of a few aggressive leaders. I do not say that this is the case, but it could be. Further, that e-mail mentioned a few days ago suggest intimidation.
But you're taking sides, and charging other people with taking sides. If you look beyond the lawyers on both sides, you will see irregularities in the case that are disturbing. If you talk to people who know about DNA, you will hear that even condoms leave residue. There are people right now saying that maybe the woman was violated by vegetables by friends of the lacrosse team.
Wanting to know the truth doesn't have to do with sympathizing with a bunch of jocks, some of them scum. It's wanting to know the truth. I don't want it to be true that she is lying. It will energize the Rush Limbaughs of the world. Do you understand? I could talk all day and not make you see my point, maybe a victim herself can give you another perspective:
[link to www.newsobserver.com]
"Certainly members of the lacrosse team should be held accountable for what the have said and did regardless of this outcome. But I personally think the blanket judgment of all members of the lacrosse team is ridiculous."
I think most are talking about the members of the team that were present at the party. And how many were there? All of them are guilty of either drinking under the age or giving alcohol to minors. All should be severely reprimanded by the university for engaging in illegal activities, not to mention the hiring of strippers. How many of them were on scholarships or grants? I think the school needs to punish the students involved in dragging its name through the mud like this. Even without the rape charge, the University needs to show it has no tolerance for this kind of behavior. Now if you and others want to see this as taking sides against the lacrosse team as a whole, or convicting them of rape, so be it. I have not done either. The students did something wrong and need to pay for it. If a couple of them also raped a woman, then those need to pay for that as well.
and you make me laugh with your paternalizing attitude.
From the moment that this news came into the media, media personalities like Smerconish, Carlson, and Limbaugh have taken sides and smeared the woman, stigmatized her, and marginalized the alleged rape. This was all BEFORE any evidence was present. Although it will not be the first or the last time that someone accuses others of rape, it will also not be the first time, nor the last that a rapist is not prosecuted because of lack of evidence. For me, the discussion is not about whether or not the rape happened, but how some people (espacially those that have a reputaion of spinning news) have responded to the allegations and even excused the alleged rapists. Perhaps you should read better next time before replying.
Further, there have been threats, as I said, that are certainly not appropriate and which you should consider, together will all other information that you provide: [link to mediamatters.org]
The only thing that seems to matter to you is to report this case differently in MMFA because it could " ... weaken its reputation", which I think you also not really care about.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Tuckers dad is one of the lawyers defending Lewis Libby. Anyone else hear that? Is it true? Not really important or pertainent to the subject, I just kind of want to know...
What kind of statement is this? Surely it was not meant to be taken seriously...