William Donohue: entertainment industry's smearing of Christians "somewhat analogous" to South African apartheid
On Fox News' Your World with Neil Cavuto, William Donohue claimed that Comedy Central's South Park creators are using their popular television show to attack the Christian majority, which is "somewhat analogous to what we had in South Africa, where the majority of the people who were black were dumped on by white racists." Donohue described those parodying Christianity as "secular supremacists" who "have it out against the 85 percent of the population that is Christian."
On the April 14 edition of Fox News' Your World with Neil Cavuto, William A. Donohue, president of the conservative Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, claimed that certain people in the entertainment industry, such as Comedy Central's South Park creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker, are using their popular television shows to attack the Christian majority, which is "somewhat analogous to what we had in South Africa, where the majority of the people who were black were dumped on by white racists." Donohue described those parodying Christianity as "secular supremacists" who "have it out against the 85 percent of the population that is Christian."
Donohue singled out South Park because, during Easter week, the show aired a two-part episode that featured an image of Jesus defecating on President Bush and the U.S. flag. The creators of the show substituted the Jesus image in protest over Comedy Central's refusal to allow them to run an image of the Prophet Muhammad. Donohue argued that shows such as South Park "don't like the idea that liberty means the right to do what you ought to do."
As Media Matters for America has noted, Donohue frequently attacks gays, progressives, and non-Christians as a guest on Your World and other news programs.
From the April 14 edition of Your World With Neil Cavuto
CAVUTO: So, it's fair game to go after Jesus but not, virtually, any other?
DONOHUE: Well, this has been the course with so many comedians today, Penn Gillette, Bill Maher, Parker and Stone over at South Park. They continually go after Christianity and they give a pass to others. Look, I don't want to see the day when the only way you can stop the bigots is to call for beheadings. That's what would happen to these bums if they were over in some other country.
CAVUTO: But they know, as well. To be fair, let's say that Comedy Central and the parent, Viacom -- I mean, they have to be aware of the fact that the [Prophet] Muhammad cartoons caused violence and riots the likes of which they hadn't expected or seen, so, maybe, the networks are just playing it safe and protecting their own people.
DONOHUE: Why can't they do it on the basis of ethical principle? If it's wrong to insult Muslims, and it is, and Jews and Christians, shouldn't it be on the basis that insult is wrong? Why is it OK then to push the envelope with Christians who won't call for your beheading, but you're going to give Muslims a pass because they might? What kind of a statement is that? It's a statement of cowardice. They're lacking principle.
CAVUTO: But why -- but, here's another step, though. Why don't you just say that's why we did it -- because we do this, Muslims get offended, and they might kill us. We do it to Christians, they're not going to do it, because they won't.
DONOHUE: Well, I think that's exactly the point. And that's why --
CAVUTO: So, if they said that, then you'd be happier?
DONOHUE: No, I wouldn't be happier. But, I'm simply saying this: why not exercise a degree of moral restraint when it comes to Christianity? Show us some respect. You shouldn't ask for violence before you get people to act. Ultimately, these people are cowards, and they are hypocrites.
CAVUTO: Where is this all going?
DONOHUE: Well, this -- where this is going is that it's a field day on Christianity and on Catholicism in particular, because the Catholic Church believes that freedom means the freedom you should -- the right to do what you ought to do, and we live in a society with license.
CAVUTO: But you've expanded this, to be fair, way beyond just the Catholic community. You think Christians period are being targeted by groups like this that allow them to make fun of their --
DONOHUE: That's right, and, you know, it's funny because we're -- 85 percent of the population is Christian in this country. Sometimes, I feel like we have an inverse situation here, somewhat analogous to what we had in South Africa, where the majority of the people who were black were dumped on by these white racists. Here, we have a small segment of the population, I call them the "secular supremacists," and they have it out against the 85 percent of the population who's Christian, because they don't like the idea that liberty means the right to do what you ought to do. They believe in license.
CAVUTO: You're one of the few who's ranting and raving about this, and I don't hear it from the Catholic Church, I don't hear it from the Protestant Church, I don't hear it from the Baptists, I don't hear it from other groups who should be equally offended, but aren't. Is there a silence -- what's deafening here?
DONOHUE: I think there's a certain -- there are a number of good advocacy groups out there. There is a reluctance on the part of Catholic hierarchy to speak out. That's because they dirtied themselves with the scandal, and they think the way to handle this is to shut up, except when it came to immigration. Now, whatever one might think of [Los Angeles Archbishop] Cardinal [Roger] Mahony and some of the others about immigration, at least they had the moral courage to speak out. The only way the Catholic Church will get its prestige back is to address contemporary moral issues. And yes, there should be bishops speaking out about South Park.
CAVUTO: Thank you.
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of We Shall Overcome playing in the background.
I am a Christian and if anybody is to blame for any anti-Christian bias it's the professed Christians that have behaved like bigoted imbecilic hypocritical morons over the past 5 years since they have had this very public stage. The Donohues, Falwells, and Robertsons have done more damage than any comedian could ever do to hurt the Christian reputation. Now Bill Maher's anti Christian jokes make me cringe as well; but they seem to be in reactionary; besides he seems to be toning in down lately and he speaks very highly of Jesus, but he says he wishes Jesus’ followers would behave more like him.
South Park is a matter of preference... but, what it makes fun of -- in my mind -- are the fools like Donahue... Any time I hear someone cracking wise about these high-and-mighty Christians... I feel it's always a dig on zealotry, not Christianity.
and the problem with fools like Donahue is that he thinks those 85% of Americans are automatically going to agree with everything he says.
as an upstanding ex-catholic, i think Trey Parker and Matt Stone have far more important things to say about religion and culture than this out-of-touch blowhard Donahue.
unfortunately, all the catholics don't hold special internal elections on every issue. you might be surprised at how much the christians of the world disagree amongst themselves.
Methinks a more apropos chorus here would have to be "Die Stem von Suid-Afrika" ("The Voice of South Africa"), apartheid South Africa's National Hymn.
In Afrikaans, naturally.
And in a rather clipped, martial to the point of fanatical staccato besides.
(Come to think of it, you have to wonder just how many of these so-called "Christian" groups are giving tacit support to the supposed "cause" of the "displaced and persecuted Afrikaner peoples of South Africa," even to the point of recommending that "right-thinking White Christian Americans" donate a day's wages to the Afrikaner cause.)
I think this Donehue guy needs some eduction on history when he thinks this all resembles Nazi Germany and South Africa's apartheids regime and the like. At the same time he plays the victim and downplays major tragedies in human history. That is no A for Donehue here.
Likely, there is freedom of art and expression. This guy wants to shut it down because of vague reasons (they make a parody out of 85% of the population). Actually, South Park make fun of every religion, including atheism.
And darn, what about this argument: " it's a field day on Christianity and on Catholicism in particular, because the Catholic Church believes that freedom means the freedom you should -- the right to do what you ought to do, and we live in a society with license." I can't do better, because I don't know what he means ... freedom is the right to do what you ought to do ... so do what someone tells you to do ... so do what I or the church tells you to do .. mmm interesting interpretation of freedom. The checks and balances and 'licences' are provided by the constitutions, laws, and court precedents.
He further says it is wrong to attck christianity (?) because they (?) do not attack Jews and Muslims: "who won't call for your beheading, but you're going to give Muslims a pass because they might? What kind of a statement is that? It's a statement of cowardice. They're lacking principle."
And show them (?) some respect:"Show us some respect. You shouldn't ask for violence before you get people to act. Ultimately, these people are cowards, and they are hypocrites." What kind of respect does he want? Christianity is the dominant faith in the USA which dominates every major office in the USA (president, house, court, major tv channels). Christians have there own societies in which this guy, Falwell, Robertson etc. call for intolerance, their own tv channels, there are churches on every corner of the street (here in Texas), people can wear a cross around their neck whereever and whenever they like, people can pray when they like, people can go to church when they like, people can yell they are being prosecuted because they are christians when they want (making themselves a mockingbird, though), rules and laws are being influenced by christian thoughts (e.g., ID, ban on gay marriage, abortion, vouchers, prayer in school, discrimination on applicants, abstinance before marriage, whithholding treatment and information in christian hospitals etc etc). Still, they play the represed civil right card.
Interesting strategy.
Actually, South Park make fun of every religion, including atheism.
This is a bit of a misnomer, like saying they make fun of black people and no-black people. Atheism isn't Satanism. It's no religion, as in the absence of religion. No rites. No chants or songs. No fictional books to remember. No vain wishes throw to the wind. By definition it's disbelief. Being an atheist requires as much effort as not believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.
No state of mind requirements either. No need to "fill yourself" with anyone or anything’s divine influence. You just accept that this is it. I'm alive now. There is no afterlife later. So I'd better stop effing around and do something constructive with the time I have, which doesn't include congregating in a special tax-free establishment every Sunday to listen to a eunuch tell me I'm a bad person or a good person or saved so I can go stuff my face at a brunch buffet free of guilt, free of social burdens like starvation, poverty and disease because I am now “cleansed”.
Also, there are no wars or conflicts in the name of surrogate father figures, no symbols or iconography of any kind, and no halls full of expensive marble statuary and paintings by Renaissance masters that would better serve society if donated to charity and sold to museums and rich private collectors, the proceeds then used, every penny, to curb starvation, poverty and disease, a better idea than talking about it or worshiping about it, don’t you think?
Don't forget, no junky literature forced on you by door-to-door missionaries. My later mother always wanted to find some atheist brochures so she could answer the door and say, "and I've got something for YOU to read, too." She figured they'd put a mark on the fence, like tramps used to do, to stay away.
"[Atheism is] no religion, as in the absence of religion". Atheists believe there is nothing and some practice that believe into the extreme (like converting people etc), even without absence of books and symbols.
Fantagor,thanks for defending our non-belief . Idon't believe in fairies.Am I then an a-fairyiest.It is to committ the fallacy of compostion to ask of the multiverse why does it exists? One asks such of items in it,but not of itself. The mutiverse is just a brute fact.
Donohue reminds of the uncle (or relative) that everyone has who gets real drunk at the annual summer family reunion and tries to pick fights with his sibs, tries to feel up the young female cousins, and ends up p*ssing all over himself by the end of the night.
BTW, why is Donohue speaking in defense of Christians. This subhuman scum is not representative of Christianity what-so-ever is actually closer to Satan.
I'm also a Christian - far from a perfect one . . . and I can honestly say I've never seen signs in restaurants, theaters, shopping malls, or other public places that denoted where Christians were allowed to go and all others were allowed to go; never heard of Christians being forbidden to vote or hold public office over others who were non-Christian; and never heard of any "townships" where Christians were forced to live apart from non-Christians in this country . . . so I don't get the analogy to South African apartheid . . .
that anyone who tries equate a cartoon to apartheid is obviously suffering from a mental disorder.
"liberty means the right to do what you ought to do"
This is a great oxymoron example that displays the radical right's agenda for theocracy.
To me, liberty means, first and foremost, the right to do what you WANT to do, given that it's within the confines of law and goodwill toward your fellow man.
Good catch. For LIBERTY to be defined as Donehue does here -- to do what one OUGHT to do -- that would apply to the guy in the worst lockdown of solitary confinement in prison. As long, of course, as the authority in power deems that what he OUGHT to be doing.
That's what these Christo-fascists do to promote their brand of Theocracy; define LIBERTY in terms of oppression and tyranny.
Please stop with the transparent attempt to make Christians out as the woe-is-us, overly picked-upon - you ain't.
There are, in fact, very few who actively "have it out" for those of faith. But by your yardstick, even the founding fathers would fall into your "secular supremacists" category.
Honestly, those of your ilk (Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, etc.) just seem to go out of the way to make themselves targets of derision.
If you don't want to be pointed out and parodied, stop running around screaming the insane things you do.
Okay?
If every group that had a joke made on Southpark at their expense was being repressed, that would be just about everybody in the country. They target everyone at some point. Southpark is the best satirical look at American culture and politics we've got. They are also absolutely brutal and pull no punches. By whining about them, Donohue exhibits the traits they are most likely to lampoon.
And they also ran a cartoon of Muhammad back in 2001. He was one of Jesus' "Super Best Friends".
I love South Park. And they target everyone...let's take a look at some of them, shall we, Mr. Donohue?
1. Jews. Kyle is one, and Cartman constantly insults him about it.
2. Christians. Yes, and Jesus has a cable-access show in South Park. Jesus also fought Satan and won ( well, Satan threw the fight, but still). Not even Mohammed gets this much good press!
3. Barbara Streisand. Of course. Jewish and a woman, but becoming MechaStreisand probably her best gig.
4. Scientology. Granted, not a religion as far as many are concerned, but it still qualifies in some way. Result: Chef is killed off because Isaac Hayes (the voice of Chef) quit. He's a Scientologist. Go figure.
5. Native Americans. Well, they WERE trying to buy out South Park to build a road directly to Denver so more people could come to their casinos. The use of "SARS infected" blankets to destroy the people of South Park was a masterful tactic. It didn't work, though.
Not only that. A few episodes ago they took a shot at pretentious self-important liberals. Kyle's dad gets a hybrid car and starts bugging all the people in Southpark about their gas-guzzling road hog SUVs. He finally gets so upset that he moves Kyle and his family to San Francisco. After moving to SF, Kyle's dad finds kinship in other self-important hybrid driving liberals. A running joke involved the folks he met all having hyphenated names and when they farted, they'd smell their own flatulence with affection. Meanwhile, Stan is so upset that his friend moved away that he releases a ballad encouraging Southpark residents to switch to hybrids in hope of luring Kyle's family back. It works somehow. However, it turns out that all the self-importance created by the hybrid ownership has created a "smug" problem from too much smugness. A giant cloud of smug forms and threatens to merge with a cloud of smug coming from San Francisco and a smaller cloud of smug emanating from George Clooney's Oscar acceptance speech. This "perfect smug storm" looks to destroy them all. This is ultimate proof that they take no prisoners as Clooney is a big friend of the show and almost single-handedly got them the show in the first place.
The end of the show signifies what I think is one of the most brillant things about the program. After all the adults see what their smugness caused, they vow to never get hybrids again. However, Stan explains to them that hybrids are actually a good thing but it was their self-importance that was the problem. The show always has an underlying moral. Those who just see potty humor don't understand this.
In the smug episode they were targeting the very group, I am proud to belong to. And you know what? I laughed my ass off. That's the difference. Liberals have a sense of humor.
I love South Park, too! Its great, good pranks, and on the news, so to say.
Let's not forget the Gelgamek Catholics.
The giant spider responsible for determining Vatican doctrine.
He has no right to talk of persecution and suffering. Back in the 1980's when he was writing books opposed to the ACLU and working for the Heritage Foundation, real American Catholics were being murdered by death squads in Central America financed by our tax dollars. I don't remember him complaining about their suffering and persecution.
Someone in American tied a tire around someones neck and lit it on fire because they were a Christian as happened to many blacks under Aparthied? Oh thats right NEVER. This guy is dangerously delusional
October 25, 1962 Dateline: Johannesburg, South Africa
Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela was found guilty today of leading workers in a 1961 strike. The leader of the African National Congress's "Umkhonto we Sizwe" wing will serve a severe sentence:
A cartoon will be made making fun of his religion.
Originally, the South African government had looked for Mandela to serve a jail sentence of 27 years. However, on the advice of an American named William Donohue, the government decided that cartoons are just as bad, if not worse, than jail time.
of a majority trying to corner the market on all commodities. Now the majority demands the benefits that come along with oppression.
Newsflash, victimhood is not all fun and games.
You say, 'VICTIMHOOD is not all fun and games".
Actually, VICTIMHOOD is not SOUGHT. It is a condition that comes from persecution with consequences, severe harm done to one's liberty and quality of life, and oppression which is unjust and done with malice.
Also, VICTIMHOOD falls to the oppressed who lack the power to effectively assert their rights.
And yet, you are correct, VICTIMHOOD does have the advantage of being SYMPATHETIC. So the Rightwing wants some of that sympathy. This is why Rush Limbaugh is constantly harping on PUNISHING the SUCCESSFUL. This is why the Rightwing have the mantra of a fictional "Liberal Press". And this is why there is a fictional "Culture War".
The Rightwing -- with ALL the power and most of the money and a near monopoly on lobbiests -- wish to tap into that wonderful VICTIM's SYMPATHETIC commodity. If they can't get it by whining and crying, maybe they could just BUY IT UP? Or maybe, pass a law requiring wealthy white rightwingers to be treated as an oppressed minority?
I swear, it's unbelievable. The rightwing will kick a poor, unwed mother in the teeth, and then be JEALOUS because someone will come to her aid. "It's not FAIR," they wail, "Who's feeling sorry for ME? After all, I've got this blood all over my new shoes!"
VICTIMHOOD ENVY. The quirky new trend in Rightwing politics.
I did not mean to imply that people who are genuinely oppressed sought such a position, but I did mean to imply (which is exactly what you explained) that these types in the oppressive majority want the “benefits” (sympathy as you noted) that victims may get. It is like a desire for an absolute ownership. They feel entitled to EVERYTHING that may garner them something.
I just wanted to make that clear. I had one of my comments pulled a few weeks ago. My professors often told me that I did not give enough information when I threw a thought out.
newsweek time u.s.-world, and every other week is some cover story on jesus or the bible. listen to any politician, television show, etc and there's christianity being praised from morning til night. give the victim mentality a rest.
Please stop pretending you're being persecuted. Seriously, stop. You're not going to get pulled over for being black. You're not going to get fired for being gay. You're not going to get called a sl*t for wearing clothing you feel sexy in.
You founded this country. You run this country. You control this country. Just because Trey Parker and Matt Stone are hillarious and mock you doesn't mean you're being persecuted. It just means you're being mocked. It's nothing like the apartheid in South Africa. In fact, it's almost the exact opposite, since you're in power and oppressing the people below you who don't agree.
Sincerely, All the non-white, non-male, non-Upper-Middle class, or non-Christians who are tired of hearing you whine about how uch you wish you were oppressed as you have oppressed so many others.
I've been hearing about Donohue for a long time. He represents virtually no one. He doesn't deserve the publicity he gets. He thinks anyone who doesn't talk about the Catholic Church in glowing, awe-filled terms is anti-Catholic. I've also noticed that the only media giving him airtime are the right-wing wackos.
85% of the country is christian? The catholic church is going to get it's prestige back by addressing contemporary moral issues? I think the only solution to stop this from happening in the future is for Neil Cavuto to have mandatory breathalizers for guests before they come on!
I find it truly amazing, how when it is convenient, these right wingers rely on the old faithful apartheid, to further its aims. Firstly, Mr. Donohue, the only people of privilege in Apartheid S.A. were white. This is not too far from the reality in the US. Secondly, the Indians and the Mixed Race Coloureds were dumped on too! Why does Mr. Donohue raise the issue of how the Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, and Muslims are dumped on! His religion seems to one of convenience.
So this is what Media Matters said, and what I've read in other places as well, about why Parker and Stone decided to put a defecating Jesus in their episode:
"... The creators of the show substituted the Jesus image in protest over Comedy Central's refusal to allow them to run an image of the Prophet Muhammad."
While Cavuto and Donahue speculates on the purpose:
"CAVUTO: ... we do this, Muslims get offended, and they might kill us. We do it to Christians, they're not going to do it, because they won't.
DONOHUE: Well, I think that's exactly the point."
I actually believe they missed the point. I think the creators of South Park are pointing to the double standard at Comedy Central that will allow them to do such offensive imagery of Jesus yet no longer allow them to have a caricature of Mohammed. This is not a religious issue, per se, but one of what the creators of South Park see as hypocratic rules enforced by Comedy Central (and possibly other media outlets.) A great media stunt that will get a lot of people talking about and around exactly that point.
Of course, since I am not christian and appreciate defamation of the American flag and the office of President as a First Amendment right, I don't find the clip in question the least bit offensive. Neither do I find images of Mohammad offensive, although I myself would never participate in any of the above forms of expressions. Also I don't have cable, so I haven't seen South Park in years and am probably incorrect with my analysis. So what do other people think about this?
South Park was pointing out the double-standard that allows them to mock everyone BUT Muslims. They were calling Comedy Central on its hypocrisy. It was a valid and timely statement. Unfortunately, this doesn't play into the "us Christians are on the cross with Jesus" persecution complex that the Religious Right has. So they framed it in terms of an attack on Christianity.
They also fail to point out that the cartoon clip with Jesus defecating on George Bush and the American flag was supposed to be made by AL QAEDA in retaliation for the airing of the Prophet's likeness. The clip mocked Al Qaeda more than Christianity.
They should be taking Comedy Central to task for its hypocrisy, not Matt and Trey for doing exactly what everyone knows they will do, which is mock everyone and everything.
If Donahue doesn't like South Park, he needn't watch it. That is real "freedom". Donahue believes that "freedom" means that we all should do as he says.
That cartoon lampoons EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christians, Jews, Muslims! Gays and straights. Kooky-cons and tree-hugging liberals!!!
Those who make such comments using "Southpark" as an example just flat-out don't know of what they speak. Period.
...to be a victim. I too am a Christian and I feel no persecution whatsoever, but if Donohue feels it, he should rejoice: not whine. The Bible is quite clear about the privilege and joy of persecution.
It's embarrassing that he makes the comparison to South Africa.
This is the usual right wing argument for lack of teaching people about what is going on in this Country; that is one thing satire does beneath making fun of things. This Country is controlled by Christians. It is a question of how tolerant they want to be. The argument in satire often tends not to be towards Christianity but how it is done. The oppressed by atheists argument kind of leads people on the wrong path of what is really making things hard for them. A lot of times it actually is other Christians, acting, I believe, not so Christian.
Let you in on a secret...there's a chunk of that 85% that don't believe your particular sect is Christian....
with taking everyone elses', who he disagrees with, rights then maybe I'd be more concern with his. The real lesson of the new testament is "do on to others, as you would have them do onto you."
For those of you who are sick and tired of the religious right and their whining, check out Bill Maher giving them the smack down from a few weeks ago on HBO.
[link to www.crooksandliars.com]
Make fun of you to death????? Now I know funny, and that is funny!
I am a non-practicing Catholic; Probably because of guys like this!
And this "inteview", it's insane they both just assume what they are discussing is true and get so outraged, I wish these good "Christians" would get outraged about Darfur or Iraq but I guess that would not be hepling the republicans win in November.