Beck to Mexico: "We're taking rapists out of your country ... and you're shipping killers to us"
On the September 25 edition of his CNN Headline News program, host Glenn Beck, during a discussion with radio host Pat Gray about an illegal immigrant who has been accused of killing a police officer in Houston, asked: "Are you kidding me? We're taking rapists out of your country, and you've got a problem with that, and you're shipping killers to us? Please." Later in the discussion, Gray claimed that "we are in a war with Mexico right now." After Beck agreed that "we better wake up soon," Gray responded: "[O]r we're going to wake up dead."
From the September 25 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck:
GRAY: So he cuffs him and puts him in the back of his patrol car, patted him down, but he missed, unfortunately -- he made a grave mistake. He missed a 9 mm handgun that was in his waistband. So the guy maneuvers his hands from back behind him around to the front of him, gets his pistol out of his pants, and shoots this officer four times in the face and head and kills him. When the wrecker driver arrived on the scene, he took a shot at him, fortunately missed. Finally, police arrived on the scene. The guy's still trapped in the back of the patrol car, of course, and they take him into custody. And find out that he'd been deported once and came back to shoot and kill a cop. But, you know, keep in mind, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people.
BECK: It's really -- I mean, and here we are dealing with -- with Mexico on Dog the Bounty Hunter. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? We're taking rapists out of your country, and you've got a problem with that, and you're shipping killers to us? Please.
GRAY: Speaking of which, the guy appeared in court today with three attorneys, two court-appointed, one paid for by the Mexican government, who was there to --
BECK: You're kidding me!
GRAY: No, I'm not. Paid for by -- we are -- we are in a war with Mexico right now. They're the only ones fighting it, of course, but as far as I'm concerned --
BECK: We're in -- you know what, Pat, we are in such denial. You know, you and I have talked so many times about what I call the perfect storm. And we are in denial on every single front. And, my gosh, we better wake up soon.
GRAY: It's -- or we're going to wake up dead is the problem.
BECK: Yeah. Pat, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
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Now we're supposed to be at war with Mexico? How are we going to fight them when we're already in WWIII with the "Islamo-fascists"?
Do these guys see war in every conflict? It's one thing to try to rally your base, but Beck just comes off as delusional.
Why are people mad that we removed a criminal from Mexico? And do people doubt that people are coming over the border and committing crimes (including murder)?
The reason the Mexican government was so upset we removed a criminal from their clutches is because he is filthy rich and they lost a potential shakedown, they are as corrupt as they come.
And do people doubt that people are coming over the border and committing crimes
The sad truth, yes they do. Just watch the evening news and one can understand why this is.
Just like, "Jobs Americans Wont Do"........ BWA HAH AH A HAH AHA HA
15 years ago when I worked inthe Construction field, I was getting paid $8.00 a hr. Sad thing, that is what they are paying now! Who the hell can afford to live on that unless you pack 20 people into a house? Not really what I call "The American Way"....
Continuing flood of illegals will keep depressing wages.
a la NAFTA will continue pressing migrant workers north.
I guess your concern about border security only works one way.
If a Mexican bounty hunter crossed into the US and kidnapped a suspect you folks would be screaming bloody murder.
Hell no! I say come over here and take them ALL.
Roger that.
Please, PLEASE!!!
All Mexican bounty hunters that want to come here and take all the criminals back to Mexico are fine with me! Why wouldn't we want criminals out of our country and back in theirs?
We're not talking about them taking US citizens here.
Why CNN Keeps him and Nancy Grace on the air is beyond me.
There is nothing racist about what Beck said, it is for the most part, absolutely true.
The follow statements
"And find out that he'd been deported once and came back to shoot and kill a cop. But, you know, keep in mind, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people."
Who exactly are the "they" he is referring to? Aren't you the same person that gets his panties in a wad each time someone generalizes Republicans? It sounds like he is equating all immigrants to cop killers and I'm sure that is his intention.
"We're taking rapists out of your country, and you've got a problem with that, and you're shipping killers to us? Please."
Who is the "you" that he is talking about? I didn't realize that the Mexican people had a program to ship killers over the boarder to the US.
You just don't get it do you? Why is Beck and his guest making huge sweeping generalizes about people?
You will have to ask Beck to be more specific as I don't speak for him. If he is saying all immigrants are cop killers, then he is wrong. I would even guess that even all illegal immigrants are not cop killers.
As for the Mexican's unloading their prisoners on us, I am sure not every single Mexican prisoner escapes here, but some do.
If you need more clarification and explanation, then I suggest you contact Beck directly.
why did you state this the following:
"There is nothing racist about what Beck said, it is for the most part, absolutely true."
Did you ask Beck what his real meaning was before you cleared him of racisit intent in your prior post? Or do you only hold other to these standards?
From the words spoken by both of them its pretty clear to any rational person that they're attempting to equate this cop killer to all Mexican immigrants and accusing the Mexican people of sending killers to the US. Why else would they make sweeping statements like they did?
Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you make statements like the comments you made above. Beck and his guest are most defiantly attempting to enforce stereotypes about people based on race.
There was no mention of race in anything Beck said. Jlyon brought it up, I didn't. There is no reason to ask him what he said, it is clearly stated.
As for what he means, well, you seem to want to put forth your own thoughts on that. So be my guest.
You don't want to. You are obsessed with parsing every phrase and letter in his text to see if you can discredit instead of understand.
I don't think it's gonna work forya on this issue. Everybody's feeling the pressure of this ridiculous border situation.
You stated, "there is nothing racist about what Beck said." Then when someone pointed out the racist generalizations of Beck's comments, you respond that you don't speak for Beck. If you don't know the answer to the obviously rhetorical questions regarding who Beck meant by "they," then how can you possibly definitely state, as you did, that his remarks weren't racist?
Keep playing if you'd like. I don't care to join you though.
Nice try.
that is pathetic even for you. Answer the question.. Your the one that gave Beck the all clear on the race issue, so apparently you can read into his statements.
Or you can tell me what you make of the generalizations that he and his guest made? Do you have a problem with them?
You and others are making the race charge, you prove it.
He didn't mention race, but this is an all too typical baseless, sleazy attempt by some when discussing this issue - to make it about race when it is about the rule of our laws and border security.
I don't buy into it, find someone else to play with. If you can't argue the merits of what he is asserting, and have to stoop to the "racist" charge as a result, then we are done.
a child.
"And find out that he'd been deported once and came back to shoot and kill a cop. But, you know, keep in mind, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people."
Still waiting for you to tell me who "they" are exactly?
The segment on Beck's show is about immigrants from Mexico is it not?
hmmm who could "they' be talking about its so very unclear? tap tap tap .... hmmm tap tap tap.... maybe they were really talking about those cute little dogs with the big eyes that shake alot and like to ride in tea cups.... hmmm no, that can't be it right because he obviously said PEOPLE at the end of the sentence... Let me guess was he really talking about those evil Canadians on our northern border? No couldn't be them because we know they're not hard working or decent (j/k Canada)
Tommy - please help me here I'm really at a loss on WHO the THEY are in that sentence on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO.
Of course the "they" are illegal immigrants/mexican government/etc.
But that in no way means what he said was racist.
Keep the gloves up, m'boy.
I don't really know what you are intimating anyway, Gray is of course generalizing, so beat him up for it if you'd like. As I have already said, he is obviously referring to illegal immigrants, some of them. If you think he means all of them, well, go for it then. We disagree.
But you still haven't answered where he injected race in any of his comments? And why it was even an issue?
inferring that my argument is sleazy? Or was I suppose to take that as a compliment?
The racist charge that's leveled is sleazy. The person who makes the charge may or may not be, I have no idea.
I specifically said the argument is sleazy, don't act all indignant as if I accused you personally of being sleazy. Because you know I did not.
Your arguing with me about the racial charge in the Beck segment. I'm stating that I think he is making generalizations about people based on their status and race (immigrants from Mexico) and your tell me that racial charges are sleazy.
But I'm not suppose to infer that you were directing that statement at me?
Where in any of his comments does he mention race?
If you can't answer it directly without your silly inferences, then please move on.
Thomas I've already stated on a number of occations that I think Mr. Beck and his guest have infered or generalized the people of Mexico or Mexican immigrants. IMO that is racist.... generalization of a group of people by thier racial or ethinic background in negative manner.
You said that people that play the "race card" are making a sleazy argument when unproven - you don't agree with my point therefore you stating that I've made a sleazy statement.
Get it now?
You can infer whatever you'd like. It's very weak, and unproven, and inflammatory, and baseless, and unproductive, and meritless.
To inject race where it is not relevant is, well, we disagree on that.
Not to worry though, I very much GET where you and many come from with that argument.
that you cannot follow any string of conversation to it's conclution without trying to avoid all of the inconsitancies peopole point out in your arguement or really acknowledging someones point for that matter Your just repeat yourself over and over. Tommyland must be swell
Remeber how you never really said my argument was sleazy? How upset you were by my "insults"?
You're gonna get your knuckles rapped for darn near unreadable spelling , punctuation and grammer.
THWACK--THWACK--THWACK!!! That's what they gave me in Canada (a coupla years ago). Well , maybe not for the Bad English, but they DID maintain discipline, and it was better for everybody.
...then why did you respond so definitely to Jlyon? Once again, you're trying to dodge defending your earlier comment.
Perhaps something else is on your mind that doesn't hinge directly on whether or not Beck's statement was racist. If so, stop trying to defend the indefensible; figure out your real point and state it.
I said there was no race included in what Beck said, I stand by that.
What I don't join in is the race card game.
Lack of clarity is apparently what you suffer from, not me.
with 2 examples of how Beck and his guest made generalizations or inferred a comparison to or about 1) Mexican immigrants 2) The people of Mexico.
To which you replied that you didn't want to guess what Beck or his guest might have been saying.
You've successfully gone full circle. See MHK's post for a response to your assertion that Beck's comments weren't racist. Feel free to repeat the loop until your head spins.
What I don't join in is the race card game.
That's nice...and meaningless.
Boiling it down, I guess you're a racist if you want to solve this border situation in any way (depart from status quo, that is.) Tell us you think everything's cool just as it is, otherwise you're Racist.
Can someone tell me when Mexican's became a race. I could go for Latino or Hispanic (but even these aren't really races), but Mexican is a Nationality. And the generalized "them" and "you" used in the clip, refer to "criminal Mexicans" and "the Mexican government" respectively. And if you (illegal immigrant) decide to cross my country's border without going through the proper channels, you (illegal immigrant) are a CRIMINAL. And the Mexican government prints pamphlets for its citizens to cross into our (United States citizen) country, because it is easier to dump their (Mexican government) economical problems on their (Mexican government) rich northern neighbors than attempt to clean up their (Mexican govenment) backyard. So I would assume I could claim that they (Mexican government) are sending them (illegal immigrants) to our (United States citizens) country. (Didn't want to confuse anyone, so I spelled out what my pronouns were so you will get my full meaning, and try to couch me as a racist).
By the logic of Beck and Gray: since some Americans go to Mexico and buy narcotics then he and Mr. Gray and you and I and all Americans should be viewed as are narcotics users. And if some Americans commit murder in Mexico......
It's their ruling aristocracy that's workin' this program, 'cause we're easy...and they're willing, having negligible upward mobility down there. Here there is reward for diligence (in comparison).
to explain the racist charge?
AND made racist remarks. HOWEVER Jlyon, this time he's spot on.
Now let's BUILD that Wall/Fence!!
apparently you have no problem with this statement?
""And find out that he'd been deported once and came back to shoot and kill a cop. But, you know, keep in mind, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people."
So his remark would have read :
"And find out that he'd been deported once and came back to shoot and kill a cop. But, you know, keep in mind, they're *ALL* just good, decent, hard-working, loving people."
Of course they aren't ALL anything of the sort. Beck was being SARCASTIC...AND quite frankly when you begin by BREAKING THE LAW by ILLEGALLY entering a country I have every reason to QUESTION your MOTIVES for coming here. To pretend that *ALL* illegals are coming here to work hard as loving, good, decent people is a farce. Criminals are among those fraudulently crossing our borders.
Here's the thing MHK, those ADVOCATING for ILLEGAL aliens OFTEN make remarks along the line that those SNEAKING into the US are *ALL* just good, decent, hard-working, loving people. Which of course they *ALL* are not...So like I said I believe Beck was simply being flip in making his point.
I'd have preferred he'd have used *ALL*, but I knew exactly what POINT he was making. I bet you did too.
I agree with him. You obviously don't. So we hold differing opinions.
could view it your way or
You could infer that Beck and his guest are trying to fuel the hatred that many people in America have towards the Mexican people, and immagrants both legal and illegal.
Do you really think it's fair to equate one killer to all illegal mexican's coming to the US?
Where is your proof of this hatred the American people have for legal immigrants, or even illegal for that matter?
Absurd and inflammatory.
What most of us want is our border secure and a logical and workable immigration policy, stricty enforced by our goverment.
Trying reading my post again - "many people in America"
If you really need to know Tommy, I deal with it on a a daily basis. If you would like me to elaborate and provide you with examples I would be happy to do so.
Just because it doesn't exist in your world doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
If you are referring to your personal dealings with people who judge others based solely on race, then that is abhorent. I haven't inferred it either way in my case.
Yes, there are racists in this country and that is very sad and they are beneath contempt, in my book. I would never apologize for anyone if I thought for one minute that they were racists. But I don't automatically assume someone is when their words or actions have not demonstrated as such.
So frustrating
You just said, "Where is your proof of this hatred the American people have for legal immigrants, or even illegal for that matter?"
So at your request I was going to provide you with examples.
Thomas I think the issue you don't get is that when people like Beck make the generalizations and inferences to Mexican's being like "such and such" or talking about a truly horrible person and include a statement towards Mexican immigrants in the same sentence it makes people start to think that yes Mexican immigrants are like the generalization.
Let me give you an example from my own life and you can tell me what you think ok? I live in Milwaukee and they had a large immigration march in the summer. I work down town and hundreds of people were walking through the street for the march. One of my co-workers told me that she wasn't going out for lunch in the park today because she didn't feel safe with all of the illegal Mexicans outside. I heard a number of gross comments about Mexican's, immigrants, and illegal on that day, but that one stood out the most.
Now tell me this, why would someone feel unsafe being outside with immigrants? Because there were scary dark skinned men, woman and children outside speaking another language? Do you think that segments like Beck's that sensationalize and generalize immigration issues could help someone reach that conclusion? That yes even thought they are hard working, and loving they too could be a cop killer?
If you really want to discuss issues to solve the problem of immigration, you need to be willing to condemn people like Beck that keep trying to pull the issue back down into the gutter. He is trying to play off of people's fears in an attempt to force some action on this issue, and from my expreince people rarly make good policy decisions based off fear.
was the daily news stations. They always made this about a "Mexican" thing. It sure looked to me watching the news it was "ALL about the Mexican's". Where where all the Asians, Europians, Central Americans ect? Nowhere to be found........
Who was behind the ralleys, the ones that started them? Blame them too........
I have no idea why your coworker is afraid of Mexican people, illegal or otherwise. Did you ask her why?
Look, I understand this issue is very sensitive and divisive for alot of people. But we have a huge problem in this country with illegal immigration - it drives down the price of labor, hurting the poorest among us the most. It is taxing our emergency rooms and many where I live have closed down because they are used for primary care. There are a host of problems that we are not addressing, least of which is a terrorist with a dirty bomb could walk over anytime.
And the employers who exploit them and undercut American workers to hire illegals at cheaper pay grades should be prosecuted to the fullest.
For me, it has nothing to do with race. I have no interest in what race they are - it is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is we need to get control of our borders, all of our borders. People that come here illegally are lawbreakers. Employers that hire them are lawbreakers. Whatever race they are is not the issue.
Some may fear Mexicans, or blacks, or Germans, or Irish, or Russians - they are misguided on that basis alone, obviously.
But none of that takes away from the problems we face as a nation unless we get a handle on this problem. Bush is a disaster on this front, to be sure.
However that doesn't mean that the issue doesn't exist now does it? Not everyone is as enlightened as you are on this particular issue now are they?
I agree something needs to be done about imigration, but I don't think that is what our conversation has been around thus far has it?
Beck is not helping the immigration issue by pandering to people's fears about Mexican Immigrants. That is exactly what this segement on his show is designed to do IMO.
Not mine. Beck may have not been politically correct, and didn't address the situation in some cushy, fuzzy way as you would have liked.
But what he is saying is basically the truth.
Did you even listen to how he was saying it? Only a twisted mind could misinterpret what he meant.
We are constantly told that we are racists for wanting to eliminate ILLEGAL immigration into OUR COUNTRY. Democrats, liberals, regressives, etc. all like to say things like: Oh they're just normal peace loving people trying to make a better life for themselves. They then turn a blind eye to all negative aspects of illegal immigrants in this country, including crime.
But don't worry, those illegals aren't criminals...no, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people. Any crime is just part of the Vast Right Wing, Neocon, NWO, Illuminati, Fascist Conspiracy.
10-4 on that. A person has to plow through 120 posts here just to find a few people willing to even defend themselves (at the border).
Naw...... But the facts can not be ignorred.
[link to www.lapdonline.org]
[link to www.lapdonline.org]
[link to www.dea.gov]
[link to www.urban.org]
that are illegal immigrants?
Zero.
shows how ignorant you are......
When you saw the Thousands upon thousands of protesters for Immigration reform, you think they where all Legal because no one told you different?
They can not say it, of the ACLU and alike will jump all over them!
Who can't say what?
If the 100 most wanted list started displaying the title "Illegal Alien" next to all Illegal Aliens they have on the list, "Raical Profiling" would be thrown at the Police Dept. When I use the term "Illegal Alien" I am called a Racist. You never see the Nightly News using the term. Or very very rarley I should say. This Ecoli breakout here is farmed by what I could imagine is mostly illegal aliens. That will never be heard, not that it is their fault.
4 guys killed in a Auto accident. All landscape workers. Speeding along late for work and crash into a lady amputating her hand. I can not say they where here illegally, but the facts I read lead up to it. You know the cops knew, but can not say anything.
It might change peoplemind about this, "Hard working people", "Job Americans wont do", attitude if they knew how many accidents, deaths, rapes, medical costs ect where caused by illegal aliens.
I am not trying to sounds like a racist, please. I just refuse to close my eyes to the good, bad, or indifferent. Or, accepting everything in the name of humanity.
If the 100 most wanted list started displaying the title "Illegal Alien" next to all Illegal Aliens they have on the list, "Raical Profiling" would be thrown at the Police Dept.
First of all, if the PD is identifying specific people, as it would be with a "most wanted" list, then it isn't profiling - it's targeting specific people. Second, there'd be no problem with the PD saying that a wanted person is in the country illegally.
When I use the term "Illegal Alien" I am called a Racist. You never see the Nightly News using the term. Or very very rarley I should say.
Probably because the term isn't accurate. The people it describes aren't themselves "illegal" - they've just committed an illegal act. We don't describe U.S. citizens who have committed crimes as "illegal citizens." We use the term "illegal aliens" in casual conversation but it really isn't accurate.
This Ecoli breakout here is farmed by what I could imagine is mostly illegal aliens. That will never be heard, not that it is their fault.
Uh, yeah - pretty sure it's not their fault.
4 guys killed in a Auto accident. All landscape workers. Speeding along late for work and crash into a lady amputating her hand. I can not say they where here illegally, but the facts I read lead up to it. You know the cops knew, but can not say anything.
You can say it. The cops can say it. No problem. Why do you think you can't?
So, you feel not one person on LA's most wanted list is a Illegal Alien?
I have absolutely no idea.
NO.....
Not one of them has the title next to their picture. LIKE I BELIEVE THAT! As much as I believe Bush.
How do their descriptions tip you off that they're illegal aliens?
Just use a bit of common sense and that is enough.
Then get one. Rent one, if you have to.
You are very wrong. I play in a band with a Detective. He was told by his superiors NOT to ask for a green card if he pulls what may appear to be a illegal alien over. Even though the LAW says they have the right to. Another officer told him to leave his people alone. He is not racialy profiling. He works in San Jose which is MOSTLY Latino.
When you where watching the Protesting over "Immigration Reform", did htey ever mention "Illegal Aliens"? Or, "Illegal Immigrants"? Very very rarely.
Don't forget, I live in California where we are most affected by the issue, and the local new NEVER uses the term.
Don't forget, I live in California where we are most affected by the issue, and the local new NEVER uses the term.
Okay, but from what you said it sounds like that's their department policy. But originally you blamed the ACLU. It's not the ACLU's fault that the police aren't allowed to say "illegal alien."
That would be ludacris........
And yes, if they start pulling people over because they felt they where illegal, which is against the law, the ACLU or such, (Mexican Consulant?) would jump all over them, you, or I.
You heard about the rancher that held some illegals at gun point crossing his land? The judge granted the illegal aliens HIS property!
Google it....
You mean the same rancher who had a previous assault charge in the state of California? The same rancher who was alleged to have pistol-whipped one of the illegal aliens? The same rancher who is part of the "Rancher's Rescue" group?
This same group being alleged to have ties to white supremists? [link to www.adl.org]
Foote is the founder, from the article: "Foote has reached out to a variety of white supremacists, and his interview with the neo-Nazi National Alliance was recently posted on the Web site of Resistance Records, a hate-music distributorship run by the NA."
Yeah poor guy has such a clean record.
Foote is the founder of Ranch Rescue, but is not the owner of the ranch (who has the prior assault charge in Cali). Foote however was with the (former) ranch owner, whose name is Nethercott.
However, rewarding the Illegals his ranch is ludacris. PERIOD! Throw his white supremist a$s in jail. That i am all for. But not rewarding a illegal alien with a citizens property, no matter the case! NO MATTER!
Having your real estate taken from you because of your beliefs, associations or because you supposedly committed an infraction, in another state, in the past. We'll remember that when they come for your property.
The reason the illegal aliens were given his land, is because he attempted to not have to sell his land (by deeding it to his sister after the court judgement) in order to be able to pay the fines imposed by the judge. The lawyer for the illegal aliens then sued for fraudulent transfer, and the miffed judge awarded the land to the aliens as compensation.
So yes the end result was the illegal aliens got his ranch, but the devil is always in the details isn't it? I guess it just doesn't sound as good to say rancher was forced to sell his land to pay for pistol-whipping and illegal arrest of an illegal immigrant.. Much better when you leave out that little convenient fact eh? So intellectually dishonest it's not even funny.
My heart bleeds for him really.
If the Police where to ask for proof of citizenship when they pulled over a person for a moving violation, eventualy someone would notice the large number of Illegal Immigrants being pulled over, say something to a human rights group, and the lawsuits would begin.......
beg to differ?
Now you're talking about racial profiling, which isn't where you started. Yes - if the local cops in California started racially profiling Latinos, or stopping Latinos without probable cause, then somebody would jump on them for it, as well they should.
Racial Profiling from?
I did say, "for a moving violation"....
and yes, cops are allowed to ask for proof of citizenship.
But, they are discouraged to do so......
So you're saying that the police should ask for proof of citizenship when they pull somebody over for a moving violation. Got it. You're right, that's not racial profiling (unless they are disproportionately targeting Latinos).
Not every jurisdiction allows local cops to ask for proof of citizenship. In fact, I think most don't. You say yours does, but that the cops aren't being allowed by their higher-ups to do so for some reason. I believe you are being truthful, I just disagree on who it is that's doing the forbidding. In other words, if the cops aren't asking for proof of citizenship it isn't the ACLU's fault.
Cops are allowed to call INS and verify Legal status if the cop feels they may be illegal. THAT IS THE LAW. Not based on juristiction. IF YOU KNOW A COP, ASK THEM.
Since you are concerned about this problem, you might want to encourage your local authorities to start a program like this one in Mecklenburg County, NC: [link to www.washingtonpost.com]
That is a great article, and a fine example of what I was speaking about.
A. Cops have always had the right to check citizenship. B. But, even the thought of it FREAKS Mexian leaders out.
""Many illegal immigrants lack valid licenses. As a result, they now risk not only arrest but also deportation whenever they drive.""
And the problem there is?
He makes $7.50 an hour and lives with four others in a small, sparsely furnished apartment. Though they lack beds, they have a television on which Lara watches his favorite telenovela, "Heridas de Amor." He sends money home monthly and calls home every week.
Guess I am supposed to feel sorry for the guy?
Lara says police now unfairly target Latinos. More than 90 percent of the illegal immigrants discovered in Mecklenburg are from Latin America.
No, how unfair is it again? 90%
"The police are just looking for problems with Hispanics," Lara said. "They know we don't have driver's licenses -- we can't get them -- and so they pull us over."
LOLOLOLOL.... When I drove without a liscense, that was the chance I took. I NEVER complained about possibly being pulled over and getting arrested. it was the chance I took, and yes, I did do jail time. (No DUI's, I do not drink and drive)
anyhooo, I will add this site to my RANT section.
They are all innocent until proven guilty...right?
We should give them all a chance to better themselves in our country. I'm sure the individuals on these most wanted lists appear to be of a specific racial group because they've been profiled.
As long as we continue to extend them welfare benefits, healthcare and education subsidies, they have a chance to overcome their victim status.
Hey, one man's illegal alien felon is another man's assertive, risk taking innovator.....don't we value those characteristics in this society?
would only respect the presumption of innocense or the right to counsel - including one from the U.S. - if it was one of them who was picked up in Mexico and brought into court on criminal charges. Sorry, Tommy, I am sure that you would like to have at least two different Constitutional provisions regarding trial by jury and right to counsel - one for "native born" white folks and one for those brown people who come over the border illegally, but that isn't what is in place. Try to keep this in the perspective of the number of people being released after years in prison when recent DNA studies have proved them innocent of felonies. But don't expect Beck to understand this. He is blinded either by hate or greed or both. Too bad the effort to keep an important news source from giving him a platform was such a dismal failure. It never had a chance with the $$ signs obscuring truth, justice, and the intermittently forgotten American way.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to go after Tommy here, but whatever...
You seriously need to check your American Government or take a civics class or something. The United States Constitution does not cover people that are not U.S. citizens. When people say it's the "Supreme Law of the Land", they are not talking about the entire Earth. It is the United States' government... not Mexican citizens'.
We need not provide a fair trial to illegal immigrants... we need to provide them a nice one-way trip back to their native country with a simple invitation to try to come here legally.
Very well said. We are a sovereign country, not an open all night department store.
Beck doesn't extend the same standard to Mexico... Do you?
They are a sovereign country as well are they not? They do have the right to get upset when someone comes into their country to take someone out without their permission correct or knowledge correct?
Con - I think you shouldn't be so quick to offer out Civic lessons to others. The 14th amendment does offer protections to non-citizens of the United States.
First off, Con Man apologized for jumping the gun already so your criticism of him is unfair.
Also, I have already said in an earlier post why the Mexican officials were most likely so upset that their star prisoner was taken from them. Their efforts to bribe him for money were taken away.
Their corruptness speaks for itself.
I'm starting to think that you really don't like the country of Mexico or its people very much from the comments that your make and defend.
So let me see if I have your argument down now..... If America wants to protect it sovereignty its our right to do so, but if Mexico wants to do so you it must be due to some insidious reason?
Love your mock OUTRAGE
CON'S post is out of order and below, which I didn't see prior to making my post. As far as I'm concerned my response was very civil considering the snide remark he started this with... CON is a big boy Tommy and I'm sure he doesn't need you to defend him, I'm sure he also realizes that its logical to expect people to reply in the same tone when your making a post.
I deserve any criticism directed at me here. I spoke too soon and then apologised. Thanks, MHK.
Tommy and friends in frustration over the escalating defense of Beck and guest's hyperbole about ending up dead from a war with Mexicans and not feeling the necessity of going back and taking issue with each link individually. I disagree with the assertion above that the snide comment "But, you know, keep in mind, they're just good, decent, hard-working, loving people" in the full context of the exchange was anything other than racist in its nature, and I guess having been on the receiving end of that kind of stuff as a kid overseas I'm a little sensitive about the notion that a fundamentally fair criminal judicial system should only be reserved to people here legally. To me, we have to view the context of our executive and our legislature having engaged in a systematic removal of citizens of rights at the same time that the segment of our society that thinks that is a good thing is pointing us in the direction of blaming all Mexicans who illegally but understandably came here for a better life for all our nation's ills. I worry that we are abandoning our standing as a nation devoted to the rule of law, and that folks with views like Tommy's are going to let it happen. It wasn't so long ago that in another democracy, a political leader who lacked a majority of his nation's support took advantage of the terrorist destruction of a federal building to suspend civil rights and then begin rounding up the immigrants. I don't see America ever putting them in ovens, but we've put them in concentration camps before, and we currently have a federal budget for unexplained detention centers being built. Don't think it can't happen here again.
We all make rash statements at times because we are passionate about the issues. Personally I hope that if I'm in another country legally or illegally for whatever the reason that I treated with the same legal protection that our country offers. That is again one of the reason America is a great country. We try to treat human beings with a basic standard of respect.
Personally I think people like Beck and his dramatized approach to immigration is not helping the issue. He isn’t interested in making people come together on this, just trying to add some $$ in his pocket book. Its just diving us apart even more and making folks assume the worst about immigrants.
"Usually, if a purpose to discriminate is found the classification will be strictly scrutinized if it is based on race, national origin, or, in some situations, non U.S. citizenship (the suspect classes). .""
I can see where this is applied in regard to the court system, but not wealfare and such. They have no "rights" to that.
mean by welfare and such?
which is very tasty to those that do not have such services. For one, Anchor babies = Who pays? Then the mom is allowed to stay regardless of citizenship. She collects wealfare, food stamps ect. Fake SS# allow for wealfare bennies, food stamps ect. Come on, you not aware of this? The list goes on. Hospitol costs, after all we turn no one away. (Not to sound cruel) Schooling..bla bla bla
That really is a frightening problem, Mahuk. Let's see, the ratio (Americans entering Mexico illegally/ Mexicans entering America legally) would be roughly twenty million to one.
Well, your points are always well-developed and convincing. You've changed my mind. THEY obviously need to build a wall to keep US out.
There is no limit to how far you will go to NOT defend yourself and those who come after you. How will you explain yourself to the next generations of your family, who--trust me--will reject obsessive, blinding PC just as sure as we rejected the dogmas and orthodoxies of OUR parents?
I was wrong... I'll get the facts and get back to you. Stupid typing before thinking.
The United States Constitution does not cover people that are not U.S. citizens.
That is incorrect. Non-citizens are afforded most constitutional protections (e.g., due process of law) as long as they are in the U.S.
legally, I believe?
People who are in this country illegally still have some constitutional rights, although they get less protection than citizens and legal entrants.
You are probably more familiar with the law, so I take your word for it.
The Supreme Court's words: [link to caselaw.lp.findlaw.com]
Nothing irritates me more than people who aren't supposed to be in this great country of ours coming in here illegally and commiting crimes, especially violent crimes. It boils my blood.
We have enough problems in this country with people who are citizens committing crimes, especially violent crimes, that we don't need these others adding to the total.
Considering the Bush Crime Family has already circumvented the Constitution (it's a living, breathing document) in numerous instances, couldn't they (just this once) change the constitution by Presidential Order to disallow ALL rights to illegal aliens who come in here and do ANYTHING illegal (which is really a moot point since the simple fact that THEY ARE HERE is ILLEGAL) in this great country of ours? I'm just asking. It might slow down the flow just a tad.
I'm sure Bush thinks he can change the Constitution by Executive Order, but of course we all know he can't (Art. V is pretty clear). No telling what Gonzalez would advise.
As for crimes, remember that nobody is getting a free pass. Anybody who commits a crime is on the hook for it. The Constitution simply limits the power of states to treat people differently based on alienage.
"No telling what Gonzalez would advise"---Good one!!!
The blood boiling part of the whole thing for me is that even though the criminal is on the hook for the crime there is that pesky detail called the victim, which in many cases can not be made whole when violent crimes are committed. That's all I'm saying.
I've always been a "tougher penalties" kind of guy, which may put me in the minority opinion around here, I don't know.
...even though the criminal is on the hook for the crime there is that pesky detail called the victim, which in many cases can not be made whole when violent crimes are committed.
That's true, but I don't follow you in the context of this conversation. How would withholding constitutional rights from one class of criminals (illegal aliens) make the victim more nearly whole?
I've always been a "tougher penalties" kind of guy...
Nobody's arguing for lesser penalties for anybody. An illegal alien who commits a crime is subject to the same penalties for that crime as a citizen would be, PLUS any penalties for the crime of being in the country illegally. I'm not sure what your saying.
I was posting in a hurry on my way out the door and really lost the thread of my point. Never mind.
people should be punished for the crime they commit and that if you are illegal you should not have the full protection of our laws. With that certain protections should be applied to all non-citizens of theUS that commit a crime here in an attempt to stop people from giving out "justice" Guantanamo bay style.
So someone who breaks our laws and comes here illegally is a victim? How does that work? Must be a joke. Only in a twisted mind can you conclude that crap.
Andyes lets continue providing free healthcare and welfare to illegals that will make them better people.
if we give Beck to Mexico?
1 barrel of oil!
It's a deal!
Yikes!!! Now we're at war with Mexico?! This WWIII stuff is getting out of control.
Maybe now Beck will enlist, Mexico is much closer to home than Iraq (look it up on a map). He could do his "program", have dinner with the family, and then end the day with a good fire fight with those dastardly Mexicans (particlularly "killer" Mexicans).
Go get get em Glenn!!