O'Reilly: "[I]s there a 50 Cent that we have to put up" for Kwanzaa?
Responding to a caller's assertion that no other "religious symbol other than the Nativity should be put up during Christmas," Bill O'Reilly stated on the December 19 edition of Westwood One's The Radio Factor that "if you're generous, you [should] put up all the symbols." Continuing, O'Reilly asserted that "there's really only one [other] symbol, and that's the menorah. There's no Kwanzaa symbol." O'Reilly, presumably referring to the rapper 50 Cent, then asked if "there [was] a 50 Cent that we have to put up" to honor Kwanzaa. He was later corrected and told that there is "a Kwanzaa symbol," which he characterized as "a candelabra like Liberace had." Kwanzaa is an African-American and Pan-African holiday celebrated from December 26-January 1.
From the December 19 edition of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
CALLER: I don't think that any religious symbol other than the Nativity should be put up during Christmas because Christmas is a federal holiday. Hanukkah is not, and winter solstice isn't. If they want them that way, pass the law and then you can put them up.
O'REILLY: Yeah. But then when you get into the exclusionary, you get into, "Yeah, it's a federal holiday, but we're only gonna honor the secular meaning of the holiday. We're not gonna honor the religion." And then you get the little baby Jesus. I can see where you're coming from. But I don't think -- look, the spirit of the season is goodwill toward men, correct, [caller]?
CALLER: Yes.
O'REILLY: All right. So goodwill toward men means you're generous. And then if you're generous, you put up all the symbols. There is only -- there's really only one symbol, and that's the menorah. There's no Kwanzaa symbol. Maybe -- is there a 50 Cent that we have to put up or something? Is there a Kwanzaa symbol? What is that? It's a candelabra like Liberace had? All right. We'll put that up, too. I don't mind.
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Bill O'Reilly on his birthday? Should it be a. The Devil b. The KKK c. Swastika d. Bin Laden (since he says Al Qaida should attack San Fransisco)
Wile E. Coyote, having just dropped from a height and staggering to his feet in time to be nailed by a truck. The epitome of delusional, self-worshipping stubbornness. Only, not funny.
A loofa on top of a plate of Falfel
What the hell is that? What is it? Where's it from?
Made with fava beans into like a paste then usually balls and fried. I have eaten it before and liked it, its different.
chick peas actually, still delicious.
the reference to falaffel comes because of the reference to them in Bill's sex harrassment phone calls. You should check out the transcipt of the calls, its funny in an uneasy sort of way
Maybe I should write a book about this, some of the titles to be considered are 'Why do Right Wingers hate Kwanzaa', 'the Right Wing Jihad against Kwanzaa' or maybe just 'The War on Kwanzaa' is fine. Probably couldn’t find a publisher if I tried.
I like that one the best. Good one Lynn. I'm gonna use that one myself if you don't mind. Just tell me where to send the royalties.
desktop publishing.
...his kneejerk characterization almost always has something to do with "gangsta rap" (which by the way, I think he's the only one still using that term these days).
but I find that comment to be VERY offensive. What a pathetic excuse for a human being.
Is that today, everyone wants to be a victim. O'Reilly, grow up; your white, male, and rich. You should count your blessings and try not to be such an a$$whole. Let that be your New Years Resolution.
What's this guy's demographic... what's his audience?
I know it to be mostly old folks who just love to hear that the world's going to heck in hurry ("...non-Christians, disloyal unpatriotic Americans... rudeness! It wasn't this way when I was a kid")...
But this guy also plays to jerry springer's audience too, it seems... I mean, the same brain-dead crowd that watches springer doesn't just turn off the TV when that show's done, do they?
They must watch FOX, don't they?
And another thing about this sick pervert taking up the cause of being a pretend "Christian Warrior":
If you took your kid to the mall this season, and saw the mall santa there, and somehow got it in your head to get a pic of your kid and him (which is mindless thinking itself, pure and simple)...
And you went over to the santa-fraud, and his handlers told you:
"Now don't you worry not one bit mom/dad... this mall santa-fraud is a certified 'good guy'... he's even a famous celebrity, a 'Christian Warrior' as a matter of fact...
It's none other than BILL O'REILLY himself in that santa clause costume!"
I ask you mom/dad, would you put your little kid in BILL O'REILLY's lap...
You know, that sick pervert masquerading as a "Christian Warrior"... would you put your kid in his lap, if he was the mall santa-fraud?
You're not that mindless a mom/dad are you?
Now listen...somebody please help me understand what was so offensive about this comment. I see it as the most secular comment Bill O has made in a long time. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with this madman just as much as the next guy who frequents this site, but this comment has to be the most moderate, middle of the road take I have ever heard dribble from this 50 year old (plus) whiner. With his entire "War on Christmas" deal, it seems to me he is actually taking a middle of the road stance here.
I feel if they are going to put up a Christmas tree in the White House, they should hang a menorah, and a the Kwanza symbol, as well as the religious symbol for Islam. This is the exact kind of hypocracy our nation is guilty of, preaching acceptance and freedom of all people and all religions, only to single out one religion as the most popular, most dominant and most important in our society. This is what we should be striving against, if we want a definite seperation of Church and State, we can't glorify one religion over the other without being hypocritical. The last sentance Billy speaks exemplifies this middle of the road: "It's a candelabra like Liberace had? All right. We'll put that up, too. I don't mind." How can this be offensive. I was raised Roman Catholic and I can tell you I would have been insulted if he took the think headed stance of: "Only the Christmas tree should be aloud. It is a strong symbol of the most popular religion in the country, so only it should be viewed in public places." What is that saying about Americans? Suddenly we only go with what's popular? I know we are a consumer run society, but buying into this kind of mentality goes against everything I view as being a proud, PATRIOTIC American.
Sorry to ramble, but please someone correct me...I obviously have taken Bill O's words out of context. There has to be some kind of hate based and underlying message here. Right?
The offensive part is that O'Reilly laughs off his ignorance of Kwanzaa by making a joke about 50 Cent being the holiday's symbol. As I wrote above, O'Reilly's perspective on black people is clear.
Since O'Reilly ADMITTED ignorance about Kwanzaa, would it have killed him to at least ATTEMPT to find some info before making such a wise ass remark?
Took me about 5 seconds to google the info he was lacking:
[link to www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org]
Billy-Boy you really do NEED a staff that can do some SIMPLE research for you so you can STOP embarrassing yourself and INSULTING people. Get the FACTS...then speak.
His statement upon being [sort of] clued in "All right. We'll put that up, too. I don't mind." does NOT negate, his earlier offensive wise-crack.
It's good to know about the creator of this celebration, too, Maulana Karenga. There is some good info on this man at [link to en.wikipedia.org] or [link to www.nathanielturner.com]
Each offer a different view on the man. But, I don't think that kwaanza is a holiday. Isn't it more of a celebration? Isn't it to celebrate unity, collective works, coop economics?
...between a holiday and a celebration? Is Mardis Gras a holiday or a celebration? What about Veteran's Day? Mother's Day? Is Juneteenth only a celebration because it isn't recognized by Federal law? Is St. Patrick's Day considered a holiday and not a celebration because of its affiliation with the church? Then what about All Saint's Day, because it's a Christian observance, but not a federal one?
So...why the distinction?
...as a distinction from a non-legal holiday, i.e., celebration. If so, I'm still not sure what the point is either. Rather than continue to speculate, perhaps PC will clarify.
My point is that everyone knows why there is Christmas and everyone knows why there is Hanukkah and everyone knows why there is Ramadan. These are holidays that people celebrate to commemorate events in their cultures. But, this one is created to seperate one culture from another, not to enlighten others about a culture. Even the 7 principles end with isolating to within themselves, not rejoicing in the goodness of all. It is strictly Karenga's notion that "the seven-fold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black." [link to www.piratepundit.com] This isn't a holiday for all to respect and observe, it is strictly for one culture and to keep that culture divided from others. Why anyone would rejoice in this type of celebration who doesn't think like Karenga is beyond me. If someone truly wishes to bring unity to all people and not isolate themselves, then this isn't the celebration to do it with. But, that's just my opinion. I hope this helps and welcome more questions.
...others see as empowerment. Surely we don't have to mention the historical and ongoing oppression of African-Americans, do we? Without that oppression, then you might have a point, but that oppression is the reason why a holiday designed to celebrate and strengthen the unity of black people should not be regarded as a divisive event. That's like calling feminists exclusionary and isolative because they're only concerned with women's rights.
You mentioned three holidays that you consider legitimate, but I noticed that they are all religious holidays. I'll go back to my original string of questions (they weren't rhetorical). If you feel that Kwanzaa is an exlusionary celebration, then what about other strictly cultural non-religious holidays such as Juneteenth or Cinco de Mayo? Do you view those as isolationist?
No, let's stick to the question at point. Do YOU think Kwaanza is a legitimate celebration? I don't want to take this thread off topic by discussing whether one holiday or another is legitamate or not, let's find out what you think of Kwaanza. Do you agree with the purpose of it? How do you celebrate this "holiday" considering that it is meant to be for blacks only, and for the advancement of black heritage only. I guess this question really only holds any merit if you are not black. If you are then you can celebrate it any way you want and I respect your decision regarding that matter. If you are not, then it could have some interesting implications.
...is that if O'Reilly had done his research, he wouldn't have even considered Kwaanza as a legitimate holiday. However, the question of Kwaanza's legitimacy is moot.
While Kwaanza is definitely a recent celebration with a controversial past, what makes a celebration legitimate? Clams reference to other holidays is perfectly reasonable in answering that question. It's not an attempt to change the subject, but to argue a point by example.
For example, you imply that a legitimate celebration must be inclusive. Yet, Clams provides a couple of examples of celebrations that are not. I would add to that July 4th, which is not an international holiday. Would that be legitimate in the U.S., but not elsewhere? (Interestingly, in recent years you can observe fireworks in Ireland on the 4th.)
As for your other arguments about Kwaanza, I'll note that the celebration of Christmas has a very controversial past, especially among Christians. Early American Puritan settlers even levied fines for celebrating Christmas! After centuries of falling in an out of favor, various traditions coalesced into the celebration we know now. It became a U.S. federal holiday in 1870.
Columbus Day is another interesting example. While a legal holiday, native Americans generally find the celebration to be highly objectionable. Many argue that is should be removed from the list of federal holidays.
I believe the questions you raise not without merit, but are appropriately answered in a personal context. I.e., the celebrations I observe are a matter of personal religious and philosophical beliefs. But as to what holidays the public considers to be legitimate, that seems to come more down to this...do a signficant number of people observe it?
" For example, you imply that a legitimate celebration must be inclusive. Yet, Clams provides a couple of examples of celebrations that are not. "
No, I don't think that is what I said. I believe I said this: " These are holidays that people celebrate to commemorate events in their cultures. But, this one is created to seperate one culture from another ". Meaning that the other holidays (all of them) are present to celebrate events of each culture, while Kwanzaa is designed to seperate one culture from another, to isolate the celebrating members from the rest of society, to fester ill feelings toward another group of society for wrongs committed in some past generation. And, like I said, if you are the kind of person to celebrate that kind of 'holiday' then you go right ahead.
For someone to state this: " Surely we don't have to mention the historical and ongoing oppression of African-Americans, do we? Without that oppression, then you might have a point,", is taking a different level to the arguement. Ongoing oppression? There is no ongoing oppression, where do you come up with that one? Everyone is given free choice to do as they please. Nobody is being restricted anymore, unless they want to be.
" but are appropriately answered in a personal context. I.e., the celebrations I observe are a matter of personal religious and philosophical beliefs. "
I'm sure if the KKK came out with a "holiday" that they felt worthy of celebrating no one here would celebrate it. In fact many would protest their right to divide in the manner they do. If you choose to celebrate a type of 'holiday' that causes the divisiveness that it is designed to cause, then that is your personal choice. What point are you trying to make there?
Your own personal definition of Kwanzaa is a bigoted distortion of the holiday's stated meaning. The seven principles of the holiday are clearly spelled out, and they bear no resemblance to your ugly and cynical take. And your comparison to a hypothetical KKK holiday is just flat out offensive.
But for you to pretend that black people are no longer oppressed and that history no longer matters is the most unforgivable offense of all. This is the root argument of racists everywhere. This is the lie that inspires people to say things like, "Go back to Africa," and "Slavery is over, get over it." Yes, the iron shackles have been taken off, but those shackles still exist in other forms. Black people still have a long way to go toward reaching true equality in this country, and attempts--such as yours--to deny them their rights to their own cultural heritage are clear evidence of that ongoing oppression.
Kwanzaa is not designed to seperate one culture from another but to awaken a love of one's culture and identity. There are so many aspects of my ancestors' culture that was lost because of our diaspora but this is one way to reclaim and honor my past. Anyone can join in a Kwanzaa celebration, there are no prohibitions. I would recommend participating in a Kwanzaa event before judging. Millions of people celebrate Kwanzaa every year and it is as real to us as Christmas is to you.
O'Reilly's religious symbol should be a Luffa...or is it a Falafel? No, I got it. His symbol should be a chart showing a decline in ratings.
The guy constantly throws around the 'nazi' term but must be the worst neo-nazi next to coulter.
Free speach is a great thing, but why do we allow it for people who want limited speach?
This kind of crap should fall under the hatecrime laws.
I would agree that his comment is inappropriate but not to the levels you are saying in your postings.
That said I wanted to touch on one thing in comments about his words. "African-American", are you referring to those that were born in Africa and immigrated to the United States? Because if someone was born here they are not "African-American" they are American only. Unless they are born in Germany and immigrate here to the US they are not "German-Americans" and so on. We need to get over this major racial divide.
...the racial divide by denying someone the right to their own cultural identity. Identifying oneself as African-American does not require that person to have been born in Africa. You should educate yourself a little more on this topic before citing the term African-American as some sort of devisive label.
The term is not in reference to your cultural identity. It is a reference to ethnicity (or background).
Your cultural identity is to the culture you live in, AMERICA. Most people who use that to identify themselves these days have never set foot in Africa.
Our culture will is being destroyed with people identifying themselves with other cultures first.
Be American-Africans? Why African first? Unless you are born in another country and become a naturalized citizen you cannot claim dual cultures.
America is a multi-cultural society, and African cultural/ethnic identity is strong with a great many black Americans who have never set foot in Africa. Again, I'm really not interested in educating you on the subject--you can do that on your own--but your idea of what an American is supposed to be is really very skewed and runs against everything that America is supposed to stand for. Being American does not mean suppressing your cultural/ethnic heritage in order to fit your narrow view of what an American is.
You sound like Lou Dobbs when he said he wanted to do away with all cultural celebrations and holidays (St. Patrick's Day was his example) because he felt they weren't American. Luckily I don't live in Lou Dobbs's America. Or yours.
"Being American does not mean suppressing your cultural/ethnic heritage in order to fit your narrow view of what an American is. "
I don't know if belittling his "narrow" view was appropriate, but I think he has a point about being called African/American. When you see a white person or talk about a white person do you refer to them as German/American or French/American...or even Canadian/American. I know that I don't, because I don't know where they came from. The same can be true of African/Americans. Do you know they are from Africa? Perhaps they are from Germany or Canada or even Russia, but since they are black they are instantly labeled as being "African". Isn't that a bit on the racist side by itself? Not all blacks can trace their heritage back to Africa, sure many (perhaps most) can, but not all. So, isn't it being unreasonable to instantly label them as being African? Using that logic you should always refer to Asian people as Chinese/American since there are more from there than anywhere else. And why is it that only African/Americans are attached with that label? Why don't you attach that stigmatic label to ALL people? You should now refer to all white people you meet as the heritage that they are, same with Asian people. Because if you don't (by your own logic) then YOU are suppressing their culteral/ethnic heritage. If you're going to divide races and put blacks on a different level, then you are in fact being racist. What if that person does not relate to his/her African heritage and you always call them African/American aren't you being the devisive one by 'only' refering to 'all' blacks as African/Americans?
You also said: " Luckily I don't live in Lou Dobbs's America. Or yours. "
Was that called for? Do you need to be rude to people who are just talking to you?
You seem to be having an argument with some imaginary other, because you're making an incredible amount of assumptions about what I say and what I believe. Personally, I only use the term African-American when refering to an individual who identifies themself as such. It's not up to me or you to decide how someone chooses to be identified, so, just as with my personal opinions on Kwanzaa, my own usage of the term African-American is completely beside the point. For the record, I use the word 'black' for some of the reasons you outlined, but again, that's not relevant.
What is relevant is that when we're talking about black Americans whose ancestry can be traced back to Africa, we're talking about a population of oppressed peoples who were brought here in shackles against their will. The same is not true for Europeans or Canadians, so your examples of French-American, German-America, etc. are not at all analogous. I have no idea why it's even necessary to point out the many reasons why African-Americans would choose to celebrate their shared African heritage as a means of overcoming that history of oppression. You seem to be choosing to ignore that history in your argument.
And as for my alleged rudeness, I find it truly incredible that you can call me a racist in one paragraph and then call me rude for pointing out someone else's intolerance in the very next. If you look at the term 'African-American' as "stigmatic" then maybe you need to consider your own prejudices instead of pointing an accusatory finger at me.
" we're talking about a population of oppressed peoples who were brought here in shackles against their will. "
YOU'RE talking about something that happened 3-400 years ago. How many shackles do you see now? When a black man/woman marries a white woman/man and have 2 children. One has a curly hair and dark skin, the other has blond hair and light skin. Which do YOU call African/American? Are you inclined to call a person African/American strictly on looks?
It seems I ask a question and you think I label you as that: " If you're going to divide races and put blacks on a different level, then you are in fact being racist. " Didn't I ask "IF" and state "THEN"? I did not call you racist as you claim.
As has been pointed out to you multiple times in this thread, it is not about what I call anyone. African-American is not a label that I put on people. It's a label that people choose to put on themselves, and I give them the respect of abiding by that. White people didn't make up the term in order to apply some "stigmatic" label to black people. Black people took the term as a way to strengthen and celebrate their cultural and ethnic heritage, and also as a way to finally be given the respect of being addressed in a way of their choosing--not "colored" or "negro" or any other term coined by whites. If a mixed child wishes to be called African-American then he or she should be called African-American. It's not my choice, and it's certainly not your choice. There's no way you can continue to pretend to not understand that.
And as for calling me a racist, you say you only called me a hypothetical racist? I feel so much better now.
Look, this thread began on an ugly note (now deleted) and it's now coming dangerously close to ending on that same note. The only difference is that the person who began the ugliness just came right out and said it, while you've taken a gradual escalation towards revealing your intent. So, I won't debate this any longer with someone who refuses to acknowledge the ongoing effects of 400 years of oppression. Educate yourself and maybe you'll find the peace to let black people celebrate who they are in the way that they choose.
Casino is correct......
I'm a christian too. As christians why can't we respect and accept what any culture has for its name? Especially on Christmas when the spirit of good will toward men, as even O'Really? himself stated is in effect.
An African American (also Afro-American) is a member of an ethnic group in the United States whose ancestors, usually in predominant part, were indigenous to Africa.
Kwanzaa: - - For those who celebrate Kwanzaa, the holiday serves as a way to reinforce family, community, and culture.
The Montgomery Bus Boycott: - - Rosa Parks did what others before her had done. She refused to give up her seat to a white passenger on the city bus. However, this time it sparked the Montgomery Bus Boycott and ignited the civil rights movement.
Please give the Blacks a break. Please let them have their Cultural names. This is the USA. Land of the free.... Remember?
Your also free, so if you insist, go ahead and disrespect our African American citizens any way you like.
Although if I were black and you called me an American African I would not like it at all. Please find more info at the WebSite I provided above. Thanks
I am black and I have always viewed african-american as being synonymous with black. It doesn't bother me at all. I am curious why it bothers so many white males.
On Bill's comment, it doesn't bother me at all. Maybe because I never celebrated Kwanzaa. I have no problem with Kwanzaa. One thing you have to keep in mind is that even WITHIN the black community, Kwanzaa is not a mainstream holiday because most American blacks celebrate Christmas.
I do find it interesting on many messages boards, you always have some whites who always bring up the topics whether Kwanzaa is a real holiday(December), how many white women MLK screwed (January), and why do we have Black History Month (February).
Then there are other topics that pop up from time to time like why do you have Ms. Black America, Black colleges, UNCF, etc etc etc.
Every other ethnic group does things that celebrate their culture, but blacks are the only ones who constantly get asked stupid questions like these on the regular.
" One thing you have to keep in mind is that even WITHIN the black community, Kwanzaa is not a mainstream holiday because most American blacks celebrate Christmas. "
May I ask a question? Why do you say Kwanzaa is not mainstream "because" most blacks celebrate Christmas? Is one not compatable with the other?
On your other subject, I'm only one person and I can say I do not think the way you say "most" white people do. I greatly admire Dr. King. He was (and still is) a great man. I don't know why we have to have seperate contests, universities and beneficial programs. I do not support the theory that it is needed. This IS America, after all. However, when the arian nation tries promoting their bunk many (if not all) people are quick to denounce what they try to shove down our throats. I feel similar messages from any race should be similarily denounced. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. The arian nation's message got us slavery and into the problem we have now. Would reversing the participants be any different if the end result becomes the same?
PROUD-CHRISTIAN..... A Great post, but are you equating the Arian Nation to all the legitimate Cultures that I love in our country? Gosh! I sure hope your not doing that. That’s not a fair comparison. Proud Christian, the following is not directed at you. You seem to be a very nice man.
I WISH I WOULD HAVE SAID THAT!....OSIRIS
But I'm not qualified cause I'm not Black. But I'll do my best to defend my fellow Americans to be free to be whoever the heck they are! I also defend the posters who want to force other cultures to Assimilate. That's the word they use to demand that you discard the African-American name and Culture, They also expect other cultures to bow down to theirs. Most people see it as Un-American.
When I proudly served our country in The Vietnam War my feelings were to fight for our Freedoms. So I defend as you say, "So Many White Males". I don't agree with them, but they enjoy the freedoms that they wish to deny other cultures.
I'm not curious as to why other Cultures bothers so many white males. Many of them agree with Patrick J. Buchanan, who is worried sick about the white male losing political power. And others just want to preserve their culture as the dominant one. Buchanan will get a mental hernia if Obama gets elected. I find it very amusing.
But I can't speak for or defend them because I fought for and consider our USA to be Home of the Free. I've been on the planet for 63 years and I've found most of these white males your curious about are of the Conservative Republican Persuasion. They attack me on some issues and agree on others. Thank you for posting. I learned somethings from your insight.
But that doesn't stop me from Wishing....
MMFA and All Posters a - Merry Christmas - and a - Happy New Year
And to O'Really? Happy Holidays!
" but are you equating the Arian Nation to all the legitimate Cultures that I love in our country? "
No, I am not equating. I am comparing the message given from one and the other from the standpoint that they seem similar (from their own veiwpoint). I think the arian nation has no place in America, but since we have freedoms allowed to all I cannot say they can't voice their opinion. I for one do not endorse any of their opinions and never will. The same is true for all who voice similar opinions...I will not endorse them.
I, too, wish mmfa and it's employees and all posters at this site a Merry Christmas and a safe New Year.
There is no prohibition against ANYONE from joining in this celebration. For me this is a small way I can connect to millions of people worldwide who have similar feelings and beliefs about their heritage and culture. I would recommend to P.C. and others who have reservations about Kwanzaa to go to a local celebration and participate before judging. It's easy to judge and condemn something that is foreign when one does not fully understand it. As far as why Black people have our own universities and beauty contests ect. these institutions were created because we were not allowed into state schools such as the University of Alabama. Believe it or not many Black people are proud of our past and culture and want to attend institutions of higher learning that foster and appreciate our uniqueness without the majority asking why we don't "assimilate". We do what all other cultures do, honor our past and ancestors. It's high time we accept the fact that Black people are humans just like everyone else and stop looking at our actions with a suspicious eye and condemn us when ANYTHING we do seems out of the mainstream.