On Fox News Sunday, Williams claimed Obama's Muslim father "presents a problem"
On the January 21 edition of Fox Broadcasting Co.'s Fox News Sunday, National Public Radio senior correspondent and Fox News contributor Juan Williams noted that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "comes from a father who was a Muslim" and added that "given that we're at war with Muslim extremists, that presents a problem."
From the January 21 edition of Fox Broadcasting Co.'s Fox News Sunday:
WILLIAMS: Yeah. I mean, I think they're more accepted in corporate America, more accepted in the media. When you talk about things like experience, I mean, Hillary Clinton's had a term in the Senate, now starting her second. But I don't think it's that much greater in terms of foreign policy experience than Barack Obama.
HUME: I don't agree.
WILLIAMS: And I think in terms of Obama and race, I still think that there's -- and don't forget the idea that, you know, he comes from a father who was a Muslim and all that. I mean, I think that, given that we're at war with Muslim extremists, that presents a problem. And I think there's a lot of -- for all the openness to Obama and the whole idea of a fresh new start, I think race continues to be an issue.
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well sure it presents a problem. just ask them after they run a few shows screaming 'obama's dad??? islamofacisst???' and then it becomes a problem.
I think that, given that we're at war with Muslim extremists, that presents a problem.
1) We are not 'at war'. Not with Muslim extremists or anybody else. Check the Congressional record. Where is this 'Declaration of War' again? Where's the victory gardens, war bonds and tax increases? Nowhere. Because there is no 'war'.
2) It's only a 'problem' because media chattering heads are making it a problem. They are manufacturing controversy, and then reporting on it as a 'problem'; all the while pretending that they weren't the ones that created it in the first place.
Actually we are in a long struggle against Islamic fanatics who have used terror to slaugher innocent citizens in this and other countries in the world. However, Obama's father is irrelevant to that struggle - and I would hope the voters would not view it as a "problem".
Obama's dad is not a part of this, but, you know, as well as I do, that the right wing smear machine will use that and take it into overdrive, so that by the time this is over, Obama's dad, instead of being a former goatherder, will probably be viewed as OBL's top lieutenant. Now, this might not happen, but it probably will. I can hear the indignation from Rush et all now...
"but, you know, as well as I do, that the right wing smear machine will use that and take it into overdrive"
As will the Hillary Clinton smear machine. I'm sure that they will be the worst.
"...the Hillary Clinton smear machine. I'm sure that they will be the worst."
Why? Any evidence that there is a "Hillary Clinton smear machine," let alone that it is "wors[e]" than others? Her two campaigns so far seem to have been pretty tame by modern standards.
Unless you're trying to bring wingnut fantasies about HRC hit men or black helicopters into the discussion, I really have no idea what you're talking about.
The only think I am sure about is that you just made that up on the spot. Wow, really creative. Did you hear the one where Hilary has signed a deal with the devil and Newsmax has a copy of the agreement?
I'm sure that Vice President Bigfoot will have some say in that matter...
My guess? Because they're bringing up Obama's "Hussein" name and his father's faith in Allah this early in the game, it will have quieted down and become "old news" by the time actual decisions are made by the public. Between now and then, Obama will have plenty of opportunities to wow the populace or to prove himself a total idiot (which I don't think he will do).
If this is a concentrated effort to discredit Obama, it's being pulled out far too early to have signficant effect on voter opinion.
Who you are related to is an issue, unless it isn't.
If we're talking Jimmy Carter, by gosh, we have to know all about billy sittin on a porch saying dumb things, and have to make assumptions that because his momma was a strong willed free speaker, he is a momma's boy.
If we're talking Obama, we gotta know all about his muslim schooling (which lasted all of two years - indoctrination on the quick!) and hear about his terrorist lovin' dad.
But if we're talking about Gulliani, the fact that he married his cousin and then divorced her? Crickets.
And coke snortin' national guard dodgin' nose pickin' curious george? More Crickets.
A 'long struggle'? You mean like reality? You mean like living on this planet? What exactly are people expecting here? There is no end result to this Orwellian line of reasoning that we are in some sort of battle that can be brought to some kind of glorious conclusion; life is hard. Nobody is ever 100% 'safe'. All this BS about struggles and wars is nothing more than rhetoric intended to win elections and gather power. Single out a vauge poorly defined enemy you can scare voters into despising, and keep at it until they're convinced they're in mortal danger, at which you point you step in as their knight-in-shining armor to protect them from the barbarians you made them afraid of in the first place
And I also marvel at how, after 9/11, most Americans announced that the "world had changed" and supported whatever the hell military adventures it's government engaged in around the world, when other--poorer and much worse off--nations have been dealing with acts of terrorism for generations (yet never felt it necessary to destabilize an entire sub-continent and kill over 600,000 people, all the while calling it "making the world safer").
I think it's important to point out here that we have had these 'wars' before. (war on drugs, poverty or gangs) but in reality, these aren't 'wars' these are merely 'conditions'. Wars are fought. Not policed and not 'on going'. We are facing a condition. Luckily for those in power they can conjure up, at will, an easily identifiable threat from this 'condition'. I don't have an answer as to how to fix this, however, I am thinking that adding more guns and bodies...probably won't do the trick.
I thought it was 6 million. You aren't up on the latest propoganda.
Still waiting for an entry from LeatherHelmet that was worth the time it took to read.
As if anybody has said six million.
There you go thinking again. You know you are no good at it. I suggest before your next foray into the thinking arena you obtain the requisite equipment. Good luck with that.
What on Earth is Juan Williams saying in the last sentence ? It doesn't even make any sense !
I agree...he reminds me of people who talk and talk and talk without taking a breath and begin to make no sense whatsoever...
???
My guess is he started to say only that there's still alot of racism in this country, but hesitated and decided to preface it with the "new start" remark.
Talking heads are already decrying Obama's "Muslim" upbringing, and things like that. They're having a problem trying to find any real dirt on the man, so essentially, they're making things up. Never mind the mere FACT that he is a devout Christian and all. You've all already heard the noise on here, there were several folks that I remember posting on this site saying that we shouldn't elect Obama because he is a former radical Muslim. Seems like the right wing hit men on the radio are already doing their business trying to discredit everything about him that they can 2 years ahead of time. Now with Clinton officially declaring for President, the attacks are coming fast and heavy. Heard them already today on talk radio about how she and Bill "killed people off" in his administration to keep them quiet (that old bit again). How she and Bill dealt in shady land deals (Whitewater, again, that they never found anything about), and one lady called in and said she would never vote for Hillary because she didn't slap Bill on the steps of the White House when his philandering ways became public. Never mind that they kept their marriage together, and that they might actually believe in the sanctity of that union between them, and were able to work things out, apparently, in NC Bible Belt, that doesn't matter.
You were listening to Brad & Britt this morning, weren't you?!
I went into work shortly after the second woman called in and said that Hillary's marriage is her business and belongs behind closed doors. The right-wingers will probably try to get the morality issue out eventually by claiming that Hillary is as much of a tramp as Bill is a gigolo, and do we really need a trollop in the Oval Office that isn't under a desk?
I'm not looking forward to the 2008 Presidential race, but I'm not looking forward to ANY future political race, because I've determined at this point that we're always going to be flooded with this nonsense.
Totally off-topic, but is your handle a reference to film 'Magnolia' by Paul Thomas Anderson? It's my absolute favorite movie, so I was just curious. :)
Juan Williams is not a liberal, but he plays one on TV.
By the way, "Preview!" Formatting without tags! MMFA enters the 21st century! I love it!!!!!
I think we need one of our resident bible experts to weigh in on the question of whether children carry the sins of their fathers.By the Fox standards, only if your father was a Muslim.
Well, yes and no, WK
I'm what's known as a dispensationalist, which means that I believe that God gave some rules to be followed, not universally, but by certain people (usually the Jews) at certain times (generally until another rule was given to supplant it).
There are several references to the "sins of the fathers being visited upon the sons to the third and fourth generation," but these are invariably very early on (Exodus 20, Numbers 22, Deuteronomy 5), and I would doubt that they were meant to be rules for us today.
Jesus promised to "make all things new," and I believe that the incurrence of God's wrath for sin is one example. In the church age (i.e., now), each of us is to be judged on our own actions and our own intentions, not on what our fathers did.
In sum, I would guess that anyone who thinks Obama's father's religion is somehow a problem doesn't know his Bible very well. Hope that helps.
You know.....Williams has a point, in fact, using his logic I'm going to have to assert that because Obama has a father, who we all know is a male, and because it's males that have caused all the wars in the last 2000 years, and because Obama himself is a male, there is definitely a coorelation between being a male and warfare, well, then, I can't support him as a president because he will most likely cause war....
"Williams has a point"
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Usually his hat covers it up, though.
If his father was a practicing Muslim in a radical country, yes I would have a problem. But that seems not the case.
What exactly is a "radical country?"
Breeding Fear
When the United States was at war with Christian extremists, the Nazis, I'd be willing to bet that nobody questioned the loyalty of American Christians running for office or saw it as a "problem."
This obsession with Obama's Islamic father is the Republicans inventing another reason, besides Obama's "race", for southerners to dislike him, as in not only is Obama leering at your white daughter ala Harold Ford, Jr., he's been raised as "one of them." They won't have to play the race card when the have a whole deck of religious fear mongering to toss in the air.
I hate to say it, but I was actually watcing this yesterday and Williams seemd to be he only one even coming close to defending Obama. I think waht he was trying to say was that the issues he brought up will be made into a problam by some voters. Hume made a few more commentsthat were vastly most idiotic during the same exchange.
If Juan was inferring that Obamas political enemies will try to make trouble with Obamas father being a Muslim, then he is correct. On the hand he could have said Obamas political enemies making trouble out of Obamas father was like saying if your father is German, then you are a potential Nazi.
Juan is inadvertently supporting bigotry. It seems Colbert and Stewart (two comdiennes) are liberals heaviest hitters when it comes to representing a liberal viewpoint. Juan is not up to the task, maybe thats why he is on Fox.
Some thoughts by Obama on religion:
- secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square
- if we progressives shed some of these biases, we might recognize the overlapping values that both religious and secular people share when it comes to the moral and material direction of our country.
- Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values.
- the discomfort of some progressives with any hint of religion has often prevented us from effectively addressing issues in moral terms.
I'd prefer to learn the man's own view on religion...than be concerned about the beliefs of his father.
What is your point Wesley?
Obama is not a secular? Woop-dee-doo, that says absolutely nothing about the thread.
This is what it had to do with the thread...as clearly stated.
- I'd prefer to learn the man's own view on religion...than be concerned about the beliefs of his father.
Sorry that I forgot to include mmfa's new braille tags on the original post.
I agree with your final point, which is relevant to the thread. However, I believe Barry was indicating that the quotes are relevant to neither. Did you have a point to make with those particular quotes or were they just an FYI, i.e., a selection of some of Obama's views with no other point in mind?
Obama's views are relatively unknown at this time. The quotes were simply to provide some context to the fact that I am more concerned about learning his views rather than his father's.
DittoWesley,
It'll be interesting.
I'd prefer to learn the man's own view on religion...than be concerned about the beliefs of his father.
I agree! This demonstrates a point Obama has made in his own political dealings in the Senate - no matter how deep our differences on many issues, there's always something on which we can find common ground.
I pretty much agree with all of that
Williams is milktoast. If he's going to advance this kind of "sins of the father" analysis, how did he manage to overlook Rudy "42 Shots" Guliani whose father was a criminal in the mob and served time in prison. How is having a religious father worse than that or even a 'sin' to begin with?
Oh sorry, how did I forget that the mob is a white terrorist organization. That kind the white voter can overlook, even romanticize, while they are programmed to implicitly regard all dark people, Muslims, and even non-Muslims of Muslim descent, as the enemy.
Rudy "42 Shots" Guliani
Hmm, thinking about today's first MMFA topic...
Guliani Throws Dead Body into Ring
Heru,
I agree with you that it looks like a double standard.
However my feeling is that if we were not being attacked by Al Queda and fundamental Islamists, Obama's religious views, (mostly because of his name, and his parentage,) would be less noticeable.
As for race and religion, I think you'll see a similar grilling by the media toward white Mit Romney and his Mormon background.
BTW, I think these are legitimate questions, just as they were for GW, Kerry and others before them.
I disagree. There may be "questions" about his Mormon background, but there won't be anything approaching the grilling and demonization that will come from the media and the right-wing echo chamber regarding Obama's loose "ties" to Americanized Islam. It's no longer proper to question Mormons in the public arena about the extremists that stand under the umbrella of Mormonism.
As for race and religion, I think you'll see a similar grilling by the media toward white Mit Romney and his Mormon background.
--------------------------------
You might want to booknote this post for future reference because I'll eat my hat if you ever hear the MSM ask Romney whether he believes in the white racist verses of the Book of Mormon.
It's a deal. :-)
George Bush's grandfather was sanctioned and had his assets seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act for financing the Nazis. Why wasn't that a problem?
If you're white enough you could have a Nazi collaborator-father or have even been a Nazi yourself and still become President or Pope, no questions asked.
Pretty sad when someone
Trying again . . . {not used to this preview function}Pretty sad when someone who's been DECEASED for twenty-three years is regarded as "a problem" . . .
I just received this e-mail from a friend who is a died in the wool Republican. I love the guy but there is no arguing with him that everything he sees or hears on Faux News isn’t the truth the whole truth so help him God. So the smear on Barak Obama is alive and well on the internet.
I’m know that he is not the first of the hundreds of thousands who will receive this e-mail and believe it because “I plugged it into SNOPES
http://www.snopes.com/ and it says "FALSE" then proceeds to verify much of the content. Of course he didn’t actually go to snopes.com and read the entire evaluation of this “urban legend”, someone who thinks like he does has already done that for him, so why bother. The problem is that so many, many, people on the right are like sheep who can not think for them selves or are to lazy to really dig into what they see and hear.
I saw the following article on Barak Husein Obama & I plugged it into SNOPES and it says "FALSE" then proceeds to verify much of the content. WOW ! This is VERY interesting. Won't this be interesting during the next few months !
Barack Hussein Obama (Jr) was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama Sr. (black muslim) of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas (white atheist ). Obama's father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a radical Muslim who migrated from Kenya to Jakarta, Indonesia. He met Obama's mother, Ann Dunhamâ?"a white atheist from Wichita, Kansasâ?"at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Obama, Sr. and Dunham divorced when Barack, Jr. was two and his father returned to Kenya. His mother married Lolo Soetoro -- another Muslim --moving to Jakarta with Obama when he was six years old. Within six months young Obama had learned to speak the Indonesian language. Obama spent "two years in a Muslim school, then two more in a Catholic school" in Jakarta. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim while admitting that he was "once a Muslim," mitigating that damning information by saying that, for two years, he also attended a Catholic school. Obama's spinmeisters are now attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came from his father (omitting the stepfather's influence) and that his father's influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya immediately following the divorce and never again had any direct influence over is son's education. However, Obama's stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, greatly and directly influenced the education of his stepson as a good Muslim by enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools. (Wahabbism is the most radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad on the industrialized world.) Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when you are seeking political office in the United States, Obama joined the United Church of Christ to help purge any notion that he is still a Muslim. Something to consider very, very carefully....
It is astonishing how many people take these types of e-mails as gospel truth. I have a brother-in-law who, despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary, refuses to believe that Target is NOT a French-owned company, and that Target HAS donated money to veterans causes. See, he read the opposite in an e-mail.
People believe what they want to believe. We've become a country where, if doesn't support what I want to believe, then it's not a fact.
"...he comes from a father who was a Muslim and all that. I mean, I think that, given we're at war with Muslim extremists, that presents a problem..." A problem? a problem?...Will these idiots never stop? These are the same morons who believed that if JFK was elected President, the Pope would be on the next airplane from Rome. Wait until they really go after Sen. Clinton -- she's a murderess, a lesbian, a Communist, and -- God forbid -- a shopper!!! Let's take it a step further -- you'll never hear this from the MSM...Rove's mother killed herself, GW's parents went golfing two or three days after their daughter died -- his sister...and they never even told him...Jeb Bush was responsible for looting more than $60-million from a Miami savings and loan. And Jeb's wife was cornered by the Customs Service for smuggling, his daughter is a druggie, yada, yada, yada....But the Bush family, yeah they're just great for America...Tune these vidiots out...and everytime some Democrat goes on one of these moronic shows and some RW nut calls it the "Democrat" party...slap the SOB in the face and tell them if they continue to get their talking points from the RNC, they have no place disseminating news to the American people...I can see Barney Frank, lisp and all, going on Faux News and telling Hanninty that, "If you haven't done your homework and you don't really understand that I represent the "Democratic" party -- not the perjoritive "Democrat" party foisted by Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz -- then how is anyone looking at this broadcast going to believe that you are actually fair and balanced?"
Democrats, you are in charge...take us to victory...
Cyclops
Before this is over the right wing nut will be saying (take your pick):
1. Osama Bin Laden is Barak Obama's real father;
2. Saddam Hussein was Barak Obama's real father;
3. Barak Obama's father planned 9/11;
4. Barak Obama planned 9/11;
5. Barak Obama is having an affair with Cindy Sheehan;
6. Barak Obama is having an affair with Michael Moore;
7. Barak Obama has a guided missle in his pants...
The list is endless...
One of the great ironies
is that heroine of right-wing loonyland Ann Coulter has said that we should go to the Middle East, kill off their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. Well, since Obama was a (nominal) Muslim and actually has converted to Christianity, why aren't the right wing applauding it, rather than criticizing it? Christians, after all, are commanded to be quick to forgive another's past.
The people that see Obama's religious background as a problem are clearly the ones who want it to be a problem.
I think you just don't don't get Coulter. IMHO she was using hyperbole illustrating the islamofascist logic to show how serious they are against us. She wants you to get all upset and then realize that our enemy has this exact viewpoint and they want to kill you and our leaders and convert us to Islam.
Try to remember that she pushes arguments to the extreme as a pundit, to make her points. She delights at infuriating the left. It is her schtick. Her acerbic wit makes for good TV so she keeps getting invited back.
Just my opinion.
Hey, I heard this is National No-Name Calling Week. I'm not going to make any disparaging remarks about anyone. :-)
If you call what she does wit, then....
YOU are the one that doesnt get Toxic Annie. We get her very well. Smear, lie, make something up, smear, smear, call for violence against somebody smear again avoid actual points at all costs. THAT is Ann. That is why she also said we should drop daisy cutters at RANDOM in the middle east, get that? At RANDOM. She makes no point nor does she attempt to, she demonizes, and smears and that is ALL she does. I am ashamed to be the same species as the woman.
Juan Williams has more creditibility than a JACKASS...Juan if you are such a good reporter, how come you don't check your facts before you report it...I always wonder why you resign from the Washington Post.