Limbaugh: Would Muslims threaten hijacking if airplane toilet was not properly aligned with Mecca?
On the January 30 edition of his nationally syndicated radio program, Rush Limbaugh responded to a story reported by the British tabloid The Sun, and repeated on the Fox News website, about a British prison changing the direction of its toilets to accommodate religious Muslim inmates who are forbidden to face or turn their backs on their direction of prayer while using the bathroom. Limbaugh asked: "What do they do on an airplane? Go to the cockpit and say, 'I got some box cutters, and if you don't turn this airplane 45 degrees for the next two minutes, I'm going to hijack you'?"
According to Talkers Magazine , The Rush Limbaugh Show reaches more than 13.5 million listeners each week, the largest talk radio audience in the nation.
From the January 30 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: Well, you know, God let it happen in the first place here. I mean, you're going to -- you're going to get into a big, tangled-up mess here if you start going down that road. But speaking of the "throne," you will not believe what I am holding here in my formerly nicotine-stained fingers. You will not believe this. It is from the UK. Toilets in one London prison are being changed in the direction in which they point to accommodate Muslim inmates who cannot use the toilets while facing Mecca. Government officials acknowledged using tax dollars for the changes to the facilities but maintain that moving the toilets was part of an ongoing refurbishment, according to an article in the -- in The Sun newspaper. Islamic code prohibits Muslims from facing or turning their backs on the direction of prayer when they use the bathroom. Muslim practitioners complained of having to sit sideways on toilets so as not to break the religious code. Well, apparently, the -- they didn't just keep letting them sit sideways, because that is not how the toilet is designed to be used.
My -- my question is -- I just have a lot of questions here. Of all places, a prison? We're going to reorient the direction of a toilet because Islamic code prohibits Muslims from facing or turning their backs on the direction of prayer when they use the bathroom? Meaning, I guess, they have to turn -- they -- they can't turn their back or face Mecca when they use the bathroom. What do they do on an airplane? Go to the cockpit and say, "I got some box cutters, and if you don't turn this airplane 45 degrees for the next two minutes I'm going to hijack you"?
The Sun reported that "after pressure from faith leaders the Home Office has agreed to turn the existing toilets 90 degrees [not 45 as Limbaugh suggested] at HMP Brixton in London."
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Oh, that Rush...
Maybe a better question is whether even a gang of terrorists with box cutters could force Rush Limbaugh to tell the truth... if only for just some of the time.
"My -- my question is -- I just have a lot of questions here. " So he professes ignorance about something, and then proceeds to make fun of it and insult an entire race of people ("what do THEY do on an airplane". instead of getting answers and expressing understanding or compassion or at least empathy. And this passes in anyone's mind as what? Commentary? News? Talent on loan from God? Rush and his ilk will be the first to condemn, ARE the first to condemn Islam, for "hate speech" and yet every day, day after day after day, spew it out on our airwaves morning noon and night. It amazes me and saddens me that we as a country are not above this by now.
Compassion or empathy for what?
For someone whose religious beliefs, because Rush is such an adherent to Christian values, prohibit them from doing something, even if he thinks it's stupid.
"Compassion or empathy for what?" --LH
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Actually that is Leatherhelmet's personal motto.
I'm so glad your bleeding heart is for convicts who
must relieve themselves in a certain direction. I don't
know what we do without you sensitive types. Maybe someone
ingenious could invent a swivel seat so they could spin themselves
into the proper direction.
I'm sure you'd show some compassion for those inmates if they were Orthodox Catholics or Jews being served a big, steaming hunk of pork on Fridays.
Or maybe you don't believe in religion for prisoners.
What are you going to do if a religion says you can only relieve yourself in the direction of mecca? Or north on odd days and south on even days. Pretty soon you will have to build uni-direction toilets or put four different ones in each cell.
There is a time when the requests go beyond ridiculous and this is one of them.
A big "if", but if the story is true, it is only a one time change of the toilet. I don't know if you are aware, but Mecca isn't moving around a whole lot.
Now I don't appreciate you making fun of my four-cardinal direction toilet religion. Your rights aren't any more important than ours.
"I'm so glad your bleeding heart is for convicts who
must relieve themselves in a certain direction." --LH
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually as someone who fairly regularly relieves himself in your direction, I have a great deal of empathy for people who need to do so directionally.
And to think I got banned from Sean Insannity's websiite for referring to Limbaugh as 'a racist pillhead." I was booted for "Contempt Of Affiliate." Guess they HATE the OBVIOUS when it's thrown at them.
RUSH is just fulfilling his mandate, giving his audience what they want: "TOILET HUMOR".
Most humans outgrow the toilet-humor stage in their early teens, but in cases of arrested development ... also marked by inability to sustain interpersonal relationships (3 divorces), lack of self control (wildly fluctuating weight problems), debilitating FEAR which causes an inability to display courage (boil on ass used as reason to escape Vietnam), the need to engage in constant "put-downs" (lack of self esteem couples with cowardice to produce the bully who verbally attacks those he fears are better, smarter, and more worthy), and usually impotence (no kids) ... that arrested development provides the perfect combination for a rightwing know-it-all talking head.
Bigotry, an aristocratic feeling of entitlement, and hubris round out the profile of the emotional wreck who compensates by bloviating.
And then there is his audience, who identify with all the above conditions, and look for a "leader" who will speak to their feelings of inadequacy by providing constant targets for their seething hatreds ... the better to avoid taking any personal responsibility.
If you are ignorant and full of fears, feel inadequate and picked on, feel like the world looks down on you for your irrational bigotry, paranoia, and inability to progress ... RUSH IS YOUR GUY!!! He'll grant you absolution for your failures, tell you it's not your fault, that it's the "______" (fill in the blank with "liberal", "blacks", "unions", "women", or whatever the target of the moment might be) who are causing you to be kept down. He'll tell you YOU are what makes America great. And you will believe him, becoming a "dittohead".
Rush Limbaugh, the great radio ENABLER for emotional cripples, societal outcasts, chronic whiners, and abject failures. Seems there are about 13 million of such in America ... not a bad percentage in a nation of over 300 million ... leaving 95% not in need of such hate-promoting "therapy", delivered by a pitiful social misfit.
Interesting take on things there, TEX. But your argument goes both ways.
"He'll grant you absolution for your failures, tell you it's not your fault, that it's the "______" (fill in the blank with "conservatives", "whites", "capitalists", "men", or whatever the target of the moment might be) who are causing you to be kept down."
Rock on.
I'm sorry but nobody, nobody outgrows toilet humor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZMKWJ36ABQ
If you have, I feel sorry for you.
That's a great one
Olbermann calls him a 'comedian'... Seems like he's moving into that realm. Now, if he could just be funny.
What's the beef here? It was a joke. You guys do a good job of pointing out the Right's lies and distortions, but highlighting this sort of thing waters down your good items.
Well speaking purely for myself, it's thinly veiled hate speech he tries to pass off as humor, but it's really self-righteous, ignorant blithering nonsensical ramblings from a failed sports talk show host who could use his popularity and his vast media network to do something good for America's understanding of the world and talk about conservative values if that's what he believes in, and perhaps increase the level of dialogue between people of all political leanings, but instead he p----ses that all away to tell stupid, cheap jokes about Muslims as an entire race of people. If he billed himself as a comedian, I would accept his rantings as such. But instead, he such a bloated meglomaniac, having been loaned his talent from God, that all he does is preach hatred and intolerance. That is why I think he's an unfunny a-- hole.
muslim is a religion, not a race of people. Rush is pompous and arrogant but that is part of being an entertainer. Al Franken is actually quite similar but his show never quite took off.
Actually, ISLAM is a religion - muslim is a term that describes a follower of that religion.
Dope.
Wow, so if I become a Muslim my race changes?
Cool.
LH, are you feeling okay? Someone just pointed out the difference between a religion and a follower of that religion, and now you're bringing ethnicity into the debate?
Franken's program did very well, and Franken isn't a racist -- unlike Limbaugh.
Air America had as much chance at survival in the "business world" as a black owned-and-operated diner in downtown Birmingham had in the year 1850. With the "community" alligned against you, those who make the rules and hold most of the capital, your chances of "survival" are nil.
If and when the new Democratic Majority address the FCC and the hopelessly biased-towards-cash-alone ownership rules of our public airwaves, and hold hearings on the content of partisan-owned monopolies which are nothing more than propaganda arms of the elite monied class, shows with more progressive leanings will thrive.
It's not a thing about "open markets" ... it's about CONTROLLING markets by domination ... and such monopolistic practices are the ANTITHESIS of 'free markets' and 'capitalism'.
Rupert Murdoch and Clear Channel take note: the domination handed you by the Republicans is not an entitlement. It was a theft, and there will be a reckoning.
Are you serious? Are you actually saying that Conservative Radio is a controlling force? C'mon... the left has control of ABC, CBS and NBC, along with MSNBC and CNN. Throw in NPR and most urban talk radio... Conservative radio is successfufl because it has an audience tired of hearing the slant and unadmitted bias from the vast majority of airwave polluting entities out there.
The left has "control" of ABC? Have you been asleep for the past few years? You must have missed Halperin's sucking up to Hew Hewitt, their hiring of Glenn Beck and the 9/11 mockumentary. As for all the others, for networks that are "controlled" there's an awful lot of conservatives that show up there, and very few liberals.
You need to update your script.
Barb,
yes CNN is trying Beck, Grace and others because they need viewers. How embarrassing for the "king" to be outdone by the "Sheppard" (just ask Saul)
CNN should be ashamed, throwing away their ideals for a bump in ratings.
That's why I dislike Lib (most really) Politicians.
But it goes beyond that, you can't attribute all of it to ratings. The 9/11 farce that ABC put on, for instance. There is simply no rationale for the fiction there outside of partisan interest. The reason I say that is because A)people are going to be drawn to anything about 9/11 anyway, and B)Bush is a much less popular figure than Clinton. There's no rating "bonus" for attacking Clinton over attacking Bush. If anything it is a "tridefecta" because it tries to bolster the less-popular figure, it won't satisfy conservatives because they'll still claim ABC is liberal, and it coats ABC serious credibility points all around.
I'm not sure what politicians, liberal or not, have to do with your post.
The media, in America at least, ALL stinks. For different reasons because it's controlled by different parties with different self interested agendas---not the good of America. I say read more books.
Way to go Chavez!
Give me your House buddy, give me your fancy car buddy, give me your radio buddy! give me your freedom buddy!
C'mon. Franken got more publicity for his launch than probably any business in history.
Business goes with what sells, even if it's winking at drugs, porn, or illegal aliens. Franken just didn't have the audience to garner the advertising dollar.
From the poll data I've seen, the left is as wealthy as the right.
There are plenty of outlets for progressive opinion. I have a basic sattelite package, and the only opinion channels are C-span 1, and Link TV, so I get the joy of listening to Noam Chomsky.
An endorsement of arrogance and pomposity doesn't make it entertaining. Watch THE COLBERT REPORT for quality entertainment.
"Well speaking purely for myself, it's thinly veiled hate speech he tries to pass off as humor, but it's really self-righteous, ignorant blithering nonsensical ramblings "
That would be the definition of the pot calling the stash crack.
Not at all. The beef is to show how people like Limbaugh go out of their way to demean one of the world's largest religions. He especially tries to make us think he is tough, but he always comes out as the big {and I mean big in more then one sense} buffoon.
"demean one of the world's largest religions"
dont forget, "most oppresive religion."
Says you.
I guess burquas, no schooling for women, honor killing
for rapes, female genital mutilation and many other lovely customs.
Of course these vary among different sects, but there are some universal facts: women are second class citizens and anyone who is not a muslim should be killed or live as a second class citizen.
Here's a lovely article on the liberation of Islamic women:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/family/2005/03/article01.shtml
I don't see how you can claim Islam is not a religion of oppression when that is all it is.
women are second class citizens and anyone who is not a muslim should be killed or live as a second class citizen.
How is that different from any pre-feminist Christian society?
because anyone who has followed religion over the last 2000 yrs would tell you that christianity has EVOLVED and become more LIBERAL and open while islam has not changed ONE bit
Actually Christianity started out pretty liberal, but has gone through several reactionary periods, but overall I would agree that Christianity is pretty liberal nowadays especially compared to Islam.
Must be nice where you live.
Here in Kentucky, things aren't quite so rosy with the Jesus Freaks.
Hang out with the snake handlers there, that should
be fun.
When Christianity was as old as Islam is now, they were involved in Crusades to recapture the Holy Land. The Knights who responded to the Church's call for Crusade, were given forgiveness for all past sins, A "Ticket to Heaven". On their way to the Middle East many Jews and non-believers were slaughtered. Men, women and children were killed by these Holy Men.
The Medieval Inquisition started in 1184, the Papal Inquisition in 1230 and the Spanish Inquisition was established in 1478.
In 1478 the Church was older than Islam is today. So to use your analogy about the evolution of the Church, by the time the Church was 1300 years old they had evolved into murderers.
Thank God they were able to evolve further into what we see today.
What is sad is, a good portion of the Muslim culture has not changed since 600 ad. Still barberic in many ways.
And when I look at the abortion clinic bombings and the abortion doctor murders, then neither have the christians.
Christian societies have only evolved to become more secular, as compared to Islamic societies which are still quite religious.
And we are only secular because WE split the system up, against a LOT of opposition from the christian churches.
Even today they have more then enough power. Look at all the faith-based crap Bush introduced.
"From the beginning it was not so....Moses gave you divorce for the hardness of your hearts"
that feminist guy named "Jesus" or somthin like that.
Actually I think it was reference to Paul's idea that Man was created by God so he is responsible to God. Eve was created from Adam's rib, so she is responsible to Adam. Or something along those lines.
Paul is sometimes interpreted as a misogynist depending how you read him.
I was going more for a moral lesson on divorce as i take it jesus was.
The point being one man / one women - elevating the status of women in general in that time. a radical feminist notion for that time.
I agree with that. Jesus was very progressive for his day and even today. I think that is the main reason he was crucified by the establishment.
Too True, the Cheief Priests admitted as much in text.
However as Jesus said ;
" No man taketh my life, but i lay it down, and I have power to take it again"
Actually, you kind of only listed the bad stuff. Islam has a much lower rate of divorce, less pre-marital sex, less masturbation, pornography. Their society is very much in favor of charity instead of a welfare state. Religion plays a much greater part of their government. It is kind of an American Conservative's utopia in many ways.
As for female genital mutilation, you do realize that our own religion believes in wholesale male genital mutilation.
Now I greatly prefer our much more liberal system, but that is probably because I was raised here. Most biases seem to come from liking what is familiar and fear/distrust of what is not familiar.
Open_Blind,
dragging a man out of bed, spilling his guts with a sword and then pulling apart his body with motorcycles and then displaying his body parts back in his village would qualify as "uptight"
His crime?
Teaching girls to read.
Circumcision is not mutilation, medically speaking, It improves health in the region over and beyond the religious meanings.
female mutilation is very-much an act of violence against women the world over and is called as much by most civilised societies.
Women in fear of the procedure can apply for asylum.
"Circumcision is not mutilation, medically speaking, It improves health in the region over and beyond the religious meanings." --Redstatedad
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Where in the Bible does it say anything about doing it for "health in the region"? Do you know the origin of circumcision in the Bible? Do you even know what mutilation is? It does not appear to be the case on any of these counts from your comments.
Blind,
yeah I know,
"beyond the religious meanings."
performed on newborns, it is a sign of the covenant with God.
Today, as you well know it is more Custom than Spiritual.
There are different forms of FGM off course, some more radical then others but why go into that?
the fact remains it is violence against women. violence you support and encourage.
"the fact remains it is violence against women. violence you support and encourage." --redstatedad
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Strawman argument. Where did I say any such thing. I just pointed out where your Holier than thou attitude about genital mutilation wasn't entirely deserved as I see you now appear to understand.
I am ambivalent personally to male circumcision (although I have seen where 13 year old Christian African men undergo it without anesthesia of any kind. It is pretty gut-wrenching to see). I was circumsized (before I can remember) and my son was circumsized before we even adopted him, so I never really had to think about it as a personal decision.
That said, I might very well find it more troubling if it wasn't a pretty big part of my own tradition.
I don't approve of female circumcision, but I realize that since it isn't a part of my tradition (and never has been), it is a little bit easier to condemn.
Open,
Ill tell you something funn yabout circ.,
from what I understand the body blood clotting ability is at its highest on the day of circumcision as prescribed in the Bible. The eighth day i believe, please don't quote me on the day.
Circumcision is not mutilation, medically speaking, It improves health in the region over and beyond the religious meanings.
False. A well-known and oft-debunked myth. There is absolutely nothing inherently unhealthy or unsanitary about an uncircumcised penis. I have personal knowledge. *wink*
Regardless, when circumcision was started (centuries ago) they knew nothing about any "health" reasons. It was strictly a religious practice.
Nutz,
u just repeated what was already said, except for the no difference part.
You were told that so you would not feel different, and you shouldn't. there is how ever more chance for growths, infections and funny cartoons.
Nutz,
"Regardless, when circumcision was started (centuries ago)"
Centuries ago? You mean we have the Pilgrims to thank for Johnnies missing hat?
And they call it "Thanksgiving"
There is absolutely nothing inherently unhealthy or unsanitary about an uncircumcised penis.
Yes and no. Past studies of circumcision haven't provided a strong for or against circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics position has been that the benefits aren't significant enough to warrant recommending it, while also noting that "circumcision does offer some benefit in preventing urinary tract infections in infants." More here... http://familydoctor.org/042.xml
In December, however, the NIH announced that two trials have shown that circumcision reduces the chance of HIV infection from heterosexual contact by about half. That is significant. More here... http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/dec2006/niaid-13.htm
Regardless, when circumcision was started (centuries ago) they knew nothing about any "health" reasons. It was strictly a religious practice.
As the practice predates recorded history, the origin is a matter of conjecture. Health may have been a reason, but it could have also been for religious or social reasons...or all of the above.
ChriDem,
That's good stuff, thanks.
Actually if u put any stock in the Bible, it all started with Abraham and God.
I am excluding any customs from minor and remote cultural practices for obvious reasons.
Actually if u put any stock in the Bible, it all started with Abraham and God.
I put stock in the Bible, but fail to reach the same conclusion, with respect to Abraham anyway.
I am excluding any customs from minor and remote cultural practices for obvious reasons.
Obvious reasons? I haven't a clue what you mean. That sounds like the closing to horid driving directions...you can't miss it!
Actually it most likely did not, the indication is that Ancient Egyptian priests were being circumcised BEFORE the time of Abraham. It is a very interesting thing to look into (I have but dont have the time or space to go into it here) the close association the Egytians and Jews had in the most ancient times.
Circumcision is mostly unknown in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision
And in Iraq another Islamic nation Women not only were taught to read but schooling was free to men and women through medical school they have women doctors, women lawyers, women college professors, and the first woman judge was sworn in 1959. Islam is not responsible for cultural insanity.
...less masterbation...? How does anyone know this? And is this a good thing? Maybe they need more of it.
i am not a fan of old LH. But, I must side with him on this one. Best friend lives in Cairo. Teaches there. Comes to visit with evil tales of the treatment of women. Unreal. Many of the women themselves seem to accept it. Remember the 'mass molestation' a few months ago? Blamed, essentially on a Belly Dancers boobs 'almost seen!' at a nearby cinema? The menfolk were overcome with passion and lust...and some 100 random women on the streets were felt up. Oh and that whole 'Clitoral Circumcision thing is not done to infants...it's done to screaming, frightened 10 year olds. And it's not done in the hospital or the Clitoris Clinic...it's done on the kitchen table.And remember, certain sects will call to the Koran which tells them, indeed beat your women! but also, as the holy book is so peacefull...it continues, 'only, leave no mark'. Oh, and on the Iranians organizing a nuke program? "The Muslims couldn't organize a breakfast...never mind a nuke program."Supersticious Fearfull. remeber kids...Everything is "Allah's will".
However, as far as toilets are concerned? You have legs...so 'mount up' facing the other direction. SIt down toilets are not that common in the middle east.as a side, took a class with a rug carrying muslim guy some years ago. funny dude. he'd stop and do the prayer thing. I kidded him, how do you know which way is east if you're inside? He laughed, unrolled his rug, and pointed to a very small sewn in compass. ooof.
You ignorant fool.
"The beef is to show how people like Limbaugh go out of their way to demean one of the world's largest religions."
How more demeaning can a religion be than one that dictates which way it's followers must face to piss and crap.
Russ was right in poking fun at this, it's absurd.
I thought tradition was important to conservatives. That is what you guys keep telling us. Why can't it be important to Muslims?
You liberals like to tear down tradition, so why are you defending this lunacy?
I suppose now the Muslims in the US will be demanding the same thing?
So, for instance, do you think every hotel in America should be forced to rearrange their bathrooms to accommodate Muslim toilet habits?
"You liberals like to tear down tradition, so why are you defending this lunacy?" --taz
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually that is a strawman argument and an apparent double standard on your part. You seem to believe in your own right to traditions and yet you would ridicule others for wanting the same treatment. If you were in jail (and I am not saying you aren't), I would support your religious rights/traditions be accomodated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"So, for instance, do you think every hotel in America should be forced to rearrange their bathrooms to accommodate Muslim toilet habits?" --taz
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Muslims in prison would seemingly have little to no choice as to their accomodations. If a hotel has unacceptible accomadations, you can always change rooms or even go somewhere else if it is that important to you. I would think the difference would be pretty obvious in your analogy. I would think hotels would not want to face their toilets towards mecca if not just to broaden their appeal (I doubt they would ever get enough complaints to justify such a thing in the first place). It is called the hospitality industry you know.
Taz,
Run, just Run...
Closed_Blind is beginning to scare me.
All liberals scare me. Is liberalism a mental illness? I'm beginning to believe thats true.
TAZ:
Liberals "SCARE" you? If you live in such fear, Limbaugh is your guy. He'll tell you your fear is justified, and it's not just "LIBERALS" who should frighten you into soiling your drawers. It's WOMEN, those pushy assertive WOMEN. It's UNIONS, and college professors, and egg-head intellectuals, and Al Gore, and feminists, and environmentalist, and O'Reilly's "Secular Progressives".
They're all out to GET you! Along with bureaucrats, trial lawyers, the media, Hollywood, immigrants, Hillary, blacks, latinos, gays ... oh my GOD, man, it must seem the WHOLE UNIVERSE is alligned AGAINST you and Rush, and your victimization must be constant and utterly debilitating!
So, stay SCARED, and look to Rush to explain why it isn't your fault that you are a frightened bunny, that the forces of EVIL (read: Liberals) are OUT TO DESTROY YOU, and keep you down. Stay scared, and keep tuning in. Daddy needs a new set of golf clubs, compliments of his legion of fearful emotional cripples.
It is a prison...It is a prison...It is a prison...It is a prison.
For the love of god, they are not at a resort. They are there b/c they couldn't follow the law.
Why do they then get the right to dictate how to run the Prison?
You libs are crazy.
I know your equally upset about the church services being held in prison and bibles... Plus those extra fancy meal accommodations.
it is prison correct?
Actually no its not a mental disorder, its called higher brain function you are just too stupid to understand it. I dont fear conservatives ilke you I just pity them
Just because you smell a foul stench, it does not mean it stems from someone else.
I wonder what a mad man would think of the world? Would he call others mad?
If we take a short look at the people throughout history and assign them such titles as 'liberal' or 'conservative' then I fear the 'conservatives' would loose hands down.
Nice rebuttal.
Open,
To be honest you are a little to cool and calculating, it is scary but I Should not have posted such a silly thing about you.
I appreciate your words. I will try not to be so cool towards you, but I can't help the calculating part too much.
;^)
I care about American traditions. If everyone in the Middle East wants to piss and crap according to their tradition thats fine with me, but you don't force your traditions on other people.
If it's so damn important to defecate and urinate away or towards Mecca for Muslims, then why is it any different for Muslims in the US? Or anywhere they happen to be? How do they piss and crap when staying at a hotel? Or are Muslim prisoners the only ones that have to rearrange bathrooms? If thats the case then this is a farce, isn't it?
Either it's a Muslim law for all or it's just another stupid mind game being played by these Islamic fascists.
I'm guessing it's the latter
"I care about American traditions. If everyone in the Middle East wants to piss and crap according to their tradition thats fine with me, but you don't force your traditions on other people." --taz
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Um, in prison it is kind of the other way around. Prisons enforce behavior and traditions on people. Our prisons are supposed to accomodate prisoners religions where possible. I imagine the Brits try to do the same thing. The British prison claims the re-orienting the toilets is just part of a remodel project and may not necessarily be only due to any specific request. It might be one of those "while we are at it" kind of things.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If it's so damn important to defecate and urinate away or towards Mecca for Muslims, then why is it any different for Muslims in the US?" --taz
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is it at all possible that it is important to some Muslims and not others? Is it also possible that there are differences between the American Muslim population and the British population...Especially in regards to prisons? Hmm... I can't believe you apparently haven't considered that. Heck, wars have been fought in our own religion, Christianity over whether to use freaking yeast in the bread used in the Eucharist or not. There are differences inside of religions you know that are often trivial.
Do you adhere to every rule in Christianity? It seems every Christian I know picks and chooses the rules from the Bible they choose to follow. Why would you expect Islam to be any different in that regard? Seems like another one of your double-standards.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Either it's a Muslim law for all or it's just another stupid mind game being played by these Islamic fascists." --taz
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
...Or if there are differences amongst Muslims, it may be that it is simply important to some and not to others and Rush (as well as you) are just taking the opportunity to gratuitously blast Muslims.
I'm gonna guess it's that.
I suppose one could argue that if a Muslim is faced with a wrong way toilet in prison, he/she should not commit an incarcerable offense. Or only offend in an Islamic country. Just sayin'...
Yeah. That's the reason for a Muslim to stay out jail. As if all of male rape, loss of priveledges and freedom simply pales in comparisson to the absolute horror of taking a dump facing in the wrong direction.
Pretty funny.
What is 'american' tradition? I thought 'america' is a melting pot of people from all over the world? If you knew anything of the people that make up the 'americans' you might know that they come from cultures where the definition of personal hygene was quite broad.
The 'real' americans were indian that pooped in the forrest.. better not hope you get what you demand.
ever silly as usual by rush, but the story also shows the absurdity of most religious dogma.
ok, I am done posting for the day. I agree with mefirst.
That is a first.
you assume that i am beholden to an ideology. im not. my views on immigration [slow it to a trickle] are pretty much so-called "rightwing". and because i dislike bush and his policies does not mean i love the democrats. and i do not cut any religion any slack. there is plenty of intolerance to be found in the muslim religion. it's what iraq is all about. people killing each other over what are basically minor religious differences.
Nothing would suprise me in the name of Mecca.
Blind people being kicked out of cabs because they have eye seeing dogs.
Refusing passengers service because they are carring booze.
This went on for a couple years, and the airport appeasers turned thier backs on it at first.
Rusty, you hear about Boxer and recalling the award to my favorite muslim group? I give her kudos.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384987/site/newsweek/page/2/
Hello? It's a JOKE for Christ's sake.
You people need to get a sense of humor. Why is it that we need to be so sensitive to Muslims yet not much to Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals, and Christians in general. By the way, I'm NOT at all religious, but I recognize hypocrisy when I see it.
All I ever hear from CAIR is being sensitive to the Muslim community, but not the other way around. Selfish, very selfish.
LOVE EVERYONE, TRUST NOONE.
Or as the Jesuits used to tell us in school "In God We Trust-All Others Pay Cash."
"I recognize hypocrisy when I see it." --Goodfella57
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I don't know if "hypocrisy" is an accurate description. It is the same rule of context that applied to "Kramer" or even Jeff Foxworthy. Do you think if Foxworthy came up with "You might be a ni&&er if..." jokes instead of making fun of fellow rednecks? It is one thing to make fun of or insult your own group. It is quite another thing to make fun of somebody else's group -- especially a group that is subject to constant scrutiny and prejudice as it is. Rush is just being a bully as far as I can see here. Nothing really new about that.
Of course it would NOT be funny if Jeff Foxworthy were to a bit as you describe. Then again, we don't care about throwing "Rednecks" under the bus for humor sake...Hey - Funny is funny.
"Of course it would NOT be funny if Jeff Foxworthy were to a bit as you describe."--goodfella
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I see you get it then. Context matters. Rush as a Christian looks like a bully or a jerk when he takes cheap shots at Muslims.
But apparantly not your own stupidity. Man are you a moron. HAHAHAHA, dont worry its just a joke
Ah, The Sun, Britain's newspaper equivalent of Rush Limbaugh. :D
The whole thing is silly to me, but if they're doing a remodeling anyway, why not?
This was one of the rare instances when I actually smiled a little bit at something Rush said.
I guess it falls upon me to remind everyone that Rush can't even fit into an airplane lavatory.
I hope for you sake you are not on his flight and sitting kittycorner from Mecca.
Wow how adult of you.
actually i thought this was really funny and in good taste. who here disagrees with the statement that muslims are too uptight?
"who here disagrees with the statement that muslims are too uptight?"
-----
I do. Who here disagrees with the statement that "Col. Roy Campbell" is a troll?
yes col,
dragging a man out of bed, spilling his guts with a sword and then pulling apart his body with motorcycles and then displaying his body parts back in his village would qualify as "uptight"
His crime?
Teaching girls to read.
I can't quite understand why conservatives criticize this behavior when their talk show hosts are frequently advocating doing similar things to liberals or terrorists or whomever they supposedly hate much of the time.
Of course it is terrible. I don't like that they do what they do. What are you going to do about it other than type away furiously on some blog? Do you think the imams read this site?
I wouldn't be surprised if the radical imams or other Muslim extremists did read this. I get the impression they are good animal trainers. Very aware of the other sides psychology and looking for signs of weakness to turn us against ourselves.
Yeah. That's realistic.
A man is shot to death in his kitchen by an anti-abortion extremist.
His crime?
Performing a legal medical procdedure.
Those Christians can be kinda uptight too.
*raises hand
My understanding of a troll is somebody who disrupts a message board with ad hominem arguements, which you do now and yesterday in the Savage story. You followed the colonel here, so you're a stalker to boot.
P.S. The colonel sounds like Savage in his wording and style.
Absolutly a button pushing troll
Hey Rush, flush twice, it's along way to the Denny's parking lot!!!!!
For those confused about Muslim bathroom etiquette here are some of the basics:
- One must not use food or animals to clean oneself (makes sense!)
- One must enter the bathroom with the left leg
- One must leave the bathroom with the right leg
- No talking (talking induces stage fright?!)
- One must face away from “Qiblah” or we know it as ‘the way to Mecca’ (not the bingo hall across the road from the prison)
- Finally, One should not clean Oneself with less than three stones (this one baffles me; I use tissue) or a bone or anything impure etc…
10 out of 10, bravo.
The reason many of you and Rush sound idiotic is because you continue to generalize Muslims. Many of the posts above make it sound as if ALL Muslims support the acts or violence listed in the posts above... What have you done to support this assertion? How do you know how Muslims feel on these issues?
Its hard to take many of these comments seriously when people are so quick to generalize a group of people based on stereotypes or what they believe to be true with little to no actually knowledge on this issues other then what you've seen on TV.
Of course there are extreme people in all groups and there are usually reasons why. Many of the countries in question are 3rd world compared to US standards and have a completely different cultural background... Trying to effect change usually involves understand... understanding where someone is coming from on a particular idea or issue.... that is really the only way you can effect real change...
Instead you mock them because you don't agree or are just generally ignorant of their background/history.. Then you advocate for a forced change, you demand that they change how they are and what they believe.. Good luck with that!
Considering I work with several Muslims, I doubt many or any of those supposed rules are followed by believers here in the US (at least I haven't seen any stones in the bathroom). Further evidence is that in the Fox "News" story, they mentioned that no such requests have been made to anyone's knowlege in the US prison system. Maybe Muslims just do this in the Middle East.
I will check with my Pakistani, Saudi and Palestinian friends and see what they think abou all of this and how widespread these practices it is or not. Not that it really matters, but it is somewhat interesting in a weird way.
Just don't shake hands with your friends after they leave the head.
A muslim toliet papers should have Rush's face on it so they can bless him!
I'm puzzled...
I thought we stopped letting Muslims carry box cutters onto planes. Maybe I missed something... the ACLU must be involved, I guess.
Anyway, out of curiossity, has anyone ever heard Rush complain about the millions (maybe billions) of dollars that contractors bilked the USA out of in the reconstruction of Iraq? Just wondering if he finds that as offensive as a few Muslim prisoners in England complaining about having to take a crap facing Mecca?
now that was a waste of good pixels.
Redstatedad
Please give me back or compensate me for the 5 min I wasted today reading your posts.
Irony, I don't think the Oxymoron is complaining too much. Between stock tips and tax breaks covered by his gullible dittoheads, he's probably compensated for his share of the WOT bill.
I don't usually have a lot of sympathy for prisoners not having all the rights they want when they're incarcerated, and being a non-religious type I don't think it's necessary to accomodate every religious requirement for them (don't go to jail-it's not supposed to be that nice)
I have to say we, as a nation, can't really criticize the religious appeasers when we've written "In God We Trust" on our currency and encourage our kids to pledge allegiance to a "nation under God" in public schools just to keep the faithful from crying about persecution.
Just when you think Rush is going to make sense...
I agree, one would have to seriously question federal money being used to accommodate one's religious preferences. Of course we wouldn't have that problem in the U.S., you know, with that whole "seperation of church and state" thing. I would love to see Limbaugh attack the use of federal money for, let's say, Bibles in U.S. prisons. Of course, we all know that isn't happening any time soon, not as long as the extreme right believes that religious freedoms exist only for Christians. These right-wing idiots seem to be defined by double-standards and hypocrisy.
It's funny, almost. Limbaugh has this slam dunk story of inappropriate use of government funds for religious purposes. The British government officials are clearly in the wrong here in my opinion, so what does Rush do? Exactly. He attacks the Muslims. Another hallmark of the Insane Right: Blame the indiviual and ignore the environmental factors.
Maybe my moderate roots are showing (or my atheist roots), but the British government has to show a little more backbone. If this took place in the U.S., I wouldn't tolerate it any more than I would tolerate accommodations made for inmates of other religions. If Rush were on the left, that would be the issue of this story. Instead he chose to use this as an impetus for more Muslim bashing. Therein lies a fundamental difference between the left and the right: the ability to rationally argue a point vs. name calling and xenophobia.
Yeah, NIck307, I don't sit around seething about how much of my tax money goes to prison Chaplains, but I don't hear Limbaugh crying about it like he does about school books or medical care.
I don't think this bashes Muslims. It points out the problematic nature of accommodating some religious strictures in public life.
I think there is an underlying concern of, "are we accommodating ourselves out of existence". I suppose we are not, but it weakens the social fabric in some ways. Britain has been relatively "criminal friendly", with lax sentencing, and strictures on cititzens defending themselves, and now their property crime rates are twice the US's. In the US we have federal judges taking on prisoner concerns, such as chunky vs. creamy peanut butter, that have improved prison life to the point that many hardened criminals refer to the pen as "three hots and a cot".
I agree with you about the underlying problem this story illustrates. But you can't pat Rush on the back for simply presenting the facts of the story. If you read his commentary, he starts to do the right thing for a second. Then his arguement degenerates into this boxcutter, hijacker stereotype. That is where MMFA cuts the clip, so maybe Rush eventually got to the point. But as it stands, perhaps taken out of context, it looks like Muslim-bashing to me.
I am all for accomodating all reasonable religious needs in prison. We MAKE them be there, religion can be a motivating factor in rehabilitation. I think we should have Kosher food, I think we should provide all reasonable sacred literature, prayer rugs, necessary and non dangerous religous paraphenalia. We should do that because its the right thing to do. Because it is what we would like done if WE were in prison for us.
I just think there is a fine line between respecting one's religious beliefs and bending over backwards for them. I think this story illustrates the latter. It also creates this slippery slope. I mean, If I found myself in a British prison, I might create my own religion, one where it is demanded by the gods that I pray while seated in a comfortable, reclined position, facing a big-screen TV and eating Doritos. You wouldn't stand in the way of my religious freedoms, would you?
I said reasonable. I tell you what you get one BILLION people building sacred temples and following your Doritos/big screen TV religion get back to me.
You all do know the Sun is a tabloid that is part of News Corp right?
Considering News Corp's other media outlets history of accuracy in reporting news in a "fair and balanced" fashion, I personally think this story is suspect.
Personally (and if i sound horrible, so be it) i think we let religious types dictate to us a little too much at times. Anything coming out of the mouth of Rush though i find hard to believe given his track record as well.
Considering News Corp's other media outlets history of accuracy in reporting news in a "fair and balanced" fashion, I personally think this story is suspect.
I think you're right. Urban legends of silly things "the liberals" advocate abound in talk radio land. Has MMFA checked it out?
The Sun reported that "after pressure from faith leaders the Home Office has agreed to turn the existing toilets 90 degrees [not 45 as Limbaugh suggested] at HMP Brixton in London."
That's the misinformation?? I think probably he was using 45 degrees as an example. I agree that, as usual, it's not as funny as he thinks it is.
Actually the Muslims in prison are doing exactly what this Website is doing.
Namely, laying ground work for future events.
It may seem silly and meaningless when looked at singularly but it is all a means to an end.
MM for instance to be hoisted loud and proud during "Fairness Doctrine" hearings
the Muslims in prison are...laying ground work for future events.
They're planning to have toilets re-located elsewhere?
You libs are all crazy.
When you go to prison, you don't get to tell the prison how you want to use the bathroom. You lose that right.
Moreover, the point Rush made about planes is relevant. It just demonstrates that this is not a real concern for Muslims in prison.
If it were a real concern, they wouldn't be able to use the bathroom on planes.
Every airplane I've ever been on has lavatories on both sides of the aisle, so it wouldn't be an issue.
Maybe the private jet that Rush takes on his all-male Viagra junkets has only one toilet.
Again, you libs are all crazy.
We have muslims who were either a danger to sociey or couldn't obey the law now telling prisions that they have to turn the toilets around.
They are in Prision...moreover, I don't believe this garbage. They don't really care.
They just want to start something to see how far they can push the libs around in public office.
I agree with you, LDoren. I feel the same way about prisoners here in the states who whine and moan and demand bibles, church services, last rites, and all that voodoo. If the idiots wanted to worship Jesus so much they shouldn't have committed crimes. So I'm supposed to pay for their chaplains with MY tax dollars? Screw them.
Nice Catch!
Those wacko Christian criminals just want to see how far they can push those pansy a$$ "compassionate" conservatives.
Prison isn't suppose to be some fancy luxury resort complete with Sunday mass and a bible in your nightstand.
While I am unabashedly liberal and progressive, I find that these days it occasionally wars with my atheism. Rush is an absolute moronic twit, a hate monger and bully, but I can't get worked up over someone's refusal to respect religion. That means any religion. I understand he's coming from the "powerful" xtian front on this, as though we are all his xtian nation to dictate to and therein lies quite a bit of the insult, but still. Overt cowering respect and sensitivity to any religion by an entire populace is repulsive, be the religion islam, xtianity, hinduism... It really is the root of so much of our dissatisfaction and war, personal and international. Richard Dawkins has much to say on the issue and so much better than I.
Fools, fools.....
"The rules ban Sikh children from carrying ceremonial daggers to school, even though the Supreme Court has ruled they can."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6316151.stm
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_car_070129_eye_on_thailand_3a_mus.htm
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C02%5C01%5Cstory_1-2-2007_pg7_41
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=19953
An ice cream vendor was killed and his headless body left sitting on the bicycle seat of his cart in Thailand's rebellious Muslim south on Thursday, police saidhttp://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BKK279390.htm
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=JG133662B&news_headline=cartoon_protestor_guilty_of_race_hate
Just say no to radical muslims.
Interesting links, EL. The last one describes how a Muslim protester in the UK was convicted in a court of law for the crime of "race hate" for chanting "Denmark you will pay, 7/7 on its way" and "UK you will pay, bin Laden on his way" at a rally against the publication of the Danish Mohammad cartoons. It does not appear that he did anything other than speak.
Do you think America should have a law against the mere act of publicly advocating hate?
It gets a little deeper than that. I followed the story for a few. In some ways it is already happening. Take the guy from Grey's Anatomy. Calls a guy a Fag@ot and everyone starts to say he needs therapy, and so he does. I imagine to keep the press of him.
So, if some guy was going around grabbing that much attention as that Muslim did, I am sure there is a vaild cause for action.
Interesting story.http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=20811
EL, the guy from Grey's Anatomy didn't violate any law. He stirred up a lot of disapproval from his castmates and the public, but he committed no crime.
If we had a "race hate" law like the one in England, people like Limbaugh and Dr. "kill 100 million Muslims" Weiner would have to be a lot more careful about what they say.
Are you sure the law is not similar to ours, "Hate Crime". Sounds like the same thing to me. Close the door in England, " Put the wood in the hole",,,,, Hate Crime in England, "Race Hate".
Big difference IMO with the comparissons you bring forth.
No it isnt the same. Here hate crimes are an enhancement. That is if you commit an assualt and it is prosecuted as a hate crime then you get more crime. However there has to be an underlying crime. You are free to be as bigotted as you like short of committing a crime and it is not against the law.
BTW, Sikhs aren't Muslims, but they have been mistaken for them and murdered for it right here in the USA.
A university in Australia just installed "Muslim Only" bathrooms. It seems the infidel students didn't want to wash their hands in the same sink that the Muslim students just used to wash their feet in while they prepared for prayers. What's next, seperate bathrooms with stone dispensers?
Wash my hands in the same sink as you washed your feet wto seconds ago? I find that discusting! You ever hear of foot fungus? I would be furrious!
Don't worry, EL. It's coming to a neighborhood near you, thanks to the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the ACLU.
Why are you opposed to a university accommodating its non-Muslim students?
If it where a Muslim community, i would be SHOCKED and probably fall over dead at thier flexability. As you can see, I wont hold MY breath waiting for them to show some acceptance.
"If it where a Muslim community, i would be SHOCKED and probably fall over dead at thier flexability. As you can see, I wont hold MY breath waiting for them to show some acceptance." --evillib
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You do realize that somebody has to be a grown up here. What gets me is that you seem to want to emulate their seeming intolerance. Strange.
The real question for you, Rust Bucket, is: Why aren't you rabid "church-state-separation" ACLU-type zealots rioting? Or filing lawsuits? Oh, that's right. It's only Christianity that you abhor.
"The real question for you, Rust Bucket, is: Why aren't you rabid "church-state-separation" ACLU-type zealots rioting? Or filing lawsuits? Oh, that's right. It's only Christianity that you abhor." --gttntoobed
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Or it just might be that you have no conception of what liberals really think at all because you have been spoonfed false characterizations on a regular basis by delusional conservative talkshow hosts.
The problem is that you guys want to believe the ACLU is hostile towards Christianity specifically, which is completely untrue and ridiculous.
On top of that, you don't seem to understand the Church/State separation issue very well to begin with.
Christians traditions are accomodated all of the time in prison. What I find puzzling is why you would deny Muslims the same courtesy when at all possible.
CAIR is nothing but a front for those that hate us. And dont be so sure about what you say, if we get more Dems like Boxer, CAIR might go POOF!
You are nothing but a bigot who hates anything Islamic
And Solon, you? Are wrong as ever. I am free to voice my opinion. You have no idea where I draw the line. I just happen to draw it a bit closer to the right than you. If I am a bigot, you are a nothing but a fairy with wings. A appeaser.
For the record, I have several Muslim friends. One family left Pakistan to get away from the oppression. They do not see my views as a biggotry. Why? Because unlike you and I, they have lived the vial oppression of the Koran. A close friend married another good friend who is Salvadorian. You sure could not do that in Pakistan, or fear DEATH at worst.
You are free to voice YOUR opinion, I am free to voice mine. Yet no matter how often people try to point out the idiocy of painting the entire religion with the broad brush of extremism you cant help yourself. I have been to the CAIR website seen many of their speakers talk and to say they are nothing but a front for people who hate us is saying that Islam hates us. Its bigotry. You act the bigot. THat istn my fault. I also have Muslim friends. I know one that came from Tunisia. He is as fine, generous and God loving man as I have ever met. Cair tries to bridge the gap of misunderstanding that people like you are mired in. They denounce extremism and terrorism and point out hate speech against Muslims and legitimate Islamic complaints. Every time anything Islamic is mentioned you go into a rabid propaganda frenzy about the eviiilllss of Islam. Hey, we all know there are evil Islamic extremists out there, no one I know is denying that but its ALL you talk about, you keep trying to pretend they represent Islam itself. Bigotry pure and simple. We dont need a Holy War with Islam. That seems to be what you want, it seems the direction your peurile and juvinile rhetoric is always pointing.
Once again Solon, you are wayyyyy off. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! Are you fing bored or something? Are you on meds this time? I have a strong opinion about the radicals, PERIOD. And I do not have to like thier religion. And I DONT! However, that does not mean I condem them all to hell. Damn...... Sometimes these forums really suck. So hard to tell what one is saying without hearing thier voice and seeing facial expressions.
You dont have to like ANY religion. You also can continue to paint Islam with the broad brush you keep using, and then I will keep calling you on your bigotry. I just know Muslims that dont deserve your disrespect. IF your only problem is with EXTREMIST Islam fine I am with you on that one, its a huge problem and alienating the decent and reasonable Muslim majority will not help us with that problem. Keep pushing the Holy War rhetoric, I will keep pushing back. THAT is how it works
"They denounce extremism and terrorism and point out hate"
C.A.I.R.? BS....... go back to school......
Go back to school? I know more on a bad day after a drinking binge than you EVER will. CAIR is an advocacy group, looking out for Muslim civil rights, which based on your ACLU problems is a concept you just dont like. They denounce terrorism and violence and foster dialogue, they have talked to the Evangelical society. They are not Hezbollah nor Hamas. Rent a couple of brain cells and if in the unlikely event you ever know what you are talking about get back to us.
And do us a favor, head south about, 900 miles and never come back.
I would much prefere bigotted morons like YOU leave MY good country so we dont have to put up with your constant stupidity pretending to care when the only people you care about are those who look like YOU. Better yet take a pistol into the next room and do the right thing.
As well, one of your favorite Dems Boxer has a issue with that group. MAybe you are not aware of it. WAKE UP!
So what. I make my own mind up about things even if Boxer WERE one of my favorite dems which she isnt, that doesnt mean I take everything she says as gospel.
Rabid paranoid speculation. But thanks for it.
"Don't worry, EL. It's coming to a neighborhood near you, thanks to the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the ACLU." --gttntoobed
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Thank you for your paranoia-mongering. You're getting this worked up over Muslims washing their feet in a seperate bathroom? What does it matter? Why is this bad even if it does happen?
I said in the same bathroom. That would be gross, would it not?
I don't know how I would feel, but I will grant you that some people may object. That is part of the reason the University did this. Considering your eelings, I don't know why you would object to the University giving the Muslims their own "Muslim Only" restroom where they can wash their feet and avoid offending people like yourself.
"Wash my hands in the same sink as you washed your feet wto seconds ago?" --Evillib
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I am confused. So you don't want Muslims to wash their feet somewhere else like their own washroom? You would rather them do it in the same sink you use? Or are you just telling them how to worship their God?
Considering your reaction, why would you oppose a seperate washroom? BTW, GTTNTOOBED didn't tell you that the Christian kids were at least partially responsible for the move and Christian leaders on the campus approved the accomodation.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1776180/posts?page=1
Yes, it seems clear that it was the non-Muslims who were being accommodated here. I guess that went over some people's heads.
Let's see if EL figures it out. Care for a gentleman's wager? A penny says he doesn't get it.
DAMN! My comment was about washing in the SAME bathroom. Are you having that much trouble reading my post?
I think you are having reading comprehension issues here. Part of the reason the Muslims got their own bathrooms is that people like you did not want the Muslims washing their feet in the same basin where people like you wash their hands. In other words, both the Muslims and non-Muslims agreed that Muslims should have their own bathroom. That part wasn't mentioned in the original post.
Please read the previous posts a little more carefully before leaving another bizarre reply.