Savage called transgender murder victim a "psychopath" and a "freak"
On the March 20 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage discussed a San Francisco Chronicle report detailing the murder of a transgender woman whose body was found naked near a freeway outside San Francisco. Savage read a sentence from the article stating that "it appeared the victim had been in the process of becoming a woman," to which Savage replied: "Yeah, process of becoming a woman -- psychopath. [She] should have been in a back ward in a straitjacket for years, howling on major medication." He went on to say, "And what's this sympathy, constant sympathy for sexually confused people? Why should we have constant sympathy for people who are freaks in every society?" adding, "But you know what? You're never gonna make me respect the freak. I don't want to respect the freak." Savage concluded: "The freak ought to be glad that they're allowed to walk around without begging for something. You know, I'm sick and tired of the whole country begging, bending over backwards for the junkie, the freak, the pervert, the illegal immigrant. All of them are better than everybody else. Sick. Everything is upside down."
As Media Matters for America has documented (here, here, and here), Savage has a history of hateful attacks on gays and lesbians. He has repeatedly referred to "the homosexual mafia," claimed that "the homosexual dance of death" is the "seminal issue of our time," and compared gays to "drug addicts." As Media Matters has also noted, Savage was signed by Hollywood's Creative Artists Agency (CAA) for "representation in all areas" -- including television and film -- but was reportedly dropped after Media Matters documented his comments attacking singer and CAA client Melissa Etheridge for thanking her wife during her Academy Awards acceptance speech.
The Savage Nation reaches more than 8 million listeners each week, according to Talkers Magazine, making it the third-most-listened-to talk radio show in the nation, behind only The Rush Limbaugh Show and The Sean Hannity Show.
From the March 20 edition of Talk Radio Network's The Savage Nation:
SAVAGE: "San Francisco police are trying to determine whether the slaying of a transgender victim found naked near the Interstate 280 freeway is somehow linked to reports of a nude woman seen walking on the same freeway two hours later, authorities said. ... [San Francisco police inspector Karen] Lynch said it appeared the victim had been in the process of becoming a woman." Yeah, process of becoming a woman -- psychopath, should have been in a back ward in a straitjacket for years, howling on major medication.
[...]
SAVAGE: And then they go into "she said transgender victims" going on and on "extremely violent" going on and on "are frequently left partially clothed or completely nude, it's making a statement and humiliating the victim," blah-blah-blah. I am so beyond fed up with freaks. I live in freak city. You know, I don't mind freaks. I used to go to Ringling Brothers when I was a little kid, and the freak show was my favorite part of the circus. I didn't go there to mock them. I liked to see the one-breasted man. I liked to see the mustached woman.
But when I wake up as an adult and I find out that they're actually all Democrats today, passing themselves off as normal, I'm sorry, someone's gotta say this is a freak show, time out. And what's this sympathy, constant sympathy for sexually confused people? Why should we have constant sympathy for people who are freaks in every society? I didn't say hurt the freaks. I didn't say do anything to the freaks.
But you know what? You're never gonna make me respect the freak. I don't want to respect the freak. The freak ought to be glad that they're allowed to walk around without begging for something. You know, I'm sick and tired of the whole country begging, bending over backwards for the junkie, the freak, the pervert, the illegal immigrant. All of them are better than everybody else. Sick. Everything is upside down.
What a fick suck.
at least he admits he has no self-respect...
What happened to vermin? Did he forget that line of hate?
As a transgender woman who has known others murdered in hate crimes and has been assaulted due to who Iam - I can tell you that the last words this poor woman heard would have been indistinguisable from those Savage spoke.
I hope he has the pleasure of facing similar comments when someone he loves dies.
I further invite him to make them to us in person.
Thanks for sharing, Kathy. That was a powerful statement.
I agree. The transgendered freak was sick. Savage is 100% correct.
I agree. The transgendered victim was sick. Savage is absolutely correct.
Did Media Matters put my last two comments in the wrong place? I'm responding to the first comment. Yes, the transgendered victim was a sicko. I totally agree. Savage is absolutely correct. There is no valid reason for a sex change. None.
How sad for you.
You do know that your statement goes against all current medical and psychiatric knowledge, right?
I didn't know that psychiatry had a definition of "freak" and that transgendered people don't fit that definition. I wonder if the APA considers fundamentalist Christians to be freaks though. It probably does.
If someone has a psychological problem that makes him feel like he's not a man (or her that she's not a woman), mutilating himself is not the answer, even if it makes the person "feel better." I didn't know that psychiatrists got to determine what was morally "right" or "wrong." Your belief that psychiatrists are above having a sinister motive for what they say is naive. If a person is a man, then he's a man, regardless of how he "feels." (I can hear Savage saying "feel" in that sarcastic tone of his right now.)
The transgendered victim was a freak. Period. That, however. doesn't excuse the murderer, who should be executed.
Savage is just scum. I'm not crazy about people who do this, but I don't see any benefit to denigrating them, treating them like dirt, and all the other things these phony savage types like to do to those who are "different". All this does is gives the subject of their pathetic abuse a reason to commit suicide.
Oh, and since when are they all democrats? Seems I recall the biggest freaks who came out of the closet always belonged to the christian preacher family...
He's just so tired of bending over backward for freaks and perverts.
You mean forwards, right? He wants a chance to drive too.
>>You're never gonna make me respect the freak. I don't want to respect the freak.
No problem, Herr Weiner. None of us have to respect you either.
Savage is mad because this shouldn't have been a news story. People get murdered all the time. This murder got coverage because the victim was a freak.
And those "all the time" murders make the news. Plus, this could be part of a string of murders.
The liberal media largely ignored the rape and murder of Jesse Dirkhising by two gay men. Of course, that's because "four legs good, two legs bad," as Savage would say. However, whenever a freak or a homosexual gets murdered, it's huge news. Michael Savage has simply had enough, and I don't blame him.
Oh, what a beautiful, compassionate human this Savage. His mother must be so proud.
She was proud of him.
You're probably right. Dahlmer's ma still loved her son too.
TRANSLATION: "Freaks deserve a good killing."
MESSAGE TO MICHAEL SAVAGE: If the so-called "freaks" to whom you refer are actually twisted, demented "psychopaths" then, perhaps, therein lies an explanation for what you consider their non-uncoventional behavior. But if you, Mr. Savage, are so lacking in sympathy or compassion for mentally ill persons then, in terms of basic human compassion, respect and dignity for those persons who are allegedly less stable mentally than you purport to be, that you use their deaths as an opportunity to ventilate your own personal hatreds, then who is the abberation of humanity here, Mr. Savage? Who is the real freak, Mr. Savage?
Excuse me... "non-unconventional behavior" should read "non-conventional behavior".
Sorry for the typo...
Nope. Savage never said that the freak deserved to be murdered.
He didn't need to say it for the implication to be made.
Only buffoons would think that he meant that.
When someone gets murdered and all you do is complain about that kind of person, it shows a clear disdain for the life that was lost.
Savage RIGHTFULLY has disdain for the life that was lost. He's still not excusing the murder.
Savage himself seems like an escapee from Divine's "Cavalcade of Perversion", yet he thinks everyone else is a freak.
When will the rest of the cast show up in his defense?
The sad irony of Mr. Savage's attempt to label the victim of this terrible crime a "psychopath" is that a hallmark trait of true psychopaths is a profound lack of empathy.
I still think it's an act.
It is an act, because it makes him more $ than a Doctorate in Nutrition (or something related, as I recall). He knows there is a certain base group in this country that 1) will buy into his act, or 2) tune in to become outraged. Don't know which group is the most foolish, even though the first is the largest.
Have you read the testimony of youthful Weiner acolytes Braid and Chris on the other Weiner thread? They certainly don't think it's an act. It's scary, because they seem like nice kids.
"You are what you pretend to be..be careful what you pretend to be."
Kurt Vonnegut, from Mother Night
Exactly. It may be an act, but in order to pull it off as Savage does, he would need to believe in the act. He may play it to the hilt in order to exploit his audience's hatred and stupidity, but I don't think anyone would be able to say those things without actually believing them.
Reliable source to be sure.
Man, what companies honestly advertise on this half-human's program? Seriously, could a company actually solicit their wares on this radio show and be considered decent and American?
8 million listeners a week?
How can this many people actually buy into Mr. Savage's hateful rhetoric?
This should make me angry, but it truly just makes me very, very sad.
One of the most incredible, generous, kind, wise and loving people I've ever known was a person who grew up female and thought he was a lesbian until the time he came to realize he wasn't a lesbian - he was a man. He had strong pride in his Italian heritage and despite severe arthritis-like symptoms in his hands and feet that often made it impossible to stand or even type, he worked diligently for charitable causes. He started a charity in North Carolina that collected the best of cigars available and then shipped them to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to give them some of the comforts of home.
Tony loved his wife, and they were married in a beautiful ceremony on the coast, surrounded by loving family and friends. He loved his dogs, and he loved the outdoors. He had a secret of cooking potatoes under campfires, coated in seasoning and olive oil, that I've never been able to replicate. He perfected the art of grilling filet mignon.
Tony was always available for a funny story, a kind word, or a bit of wisdom. He was the model of grace when confronted with hatred and ignorance, yet was a fierce defender of prisoner's rights and a strong voice against societal acceptance of Prison Rape as a crude form of "justice" for criminals. He was eloquent, wrote poetry, was working on a novel.
In the Fall a few years back, he and his wife were in a terrible car accident due to another driver's poor decisions in making a left-hand turn. The pileup that resulted flipped the car he and Sara were driving in. She was brain dead at the scene, and he was in a coma. When he came to and discovered that the love of his life, to whom he had been married less than a year, had died, his recovering health failed immediately. Despite his friends' best attempts to keep his spirits up, he fell into despair, and finally passed into the hands of the woman he loved.
Savage's remarks sadden me primarily because the beauty that was in Tony's life isn't in all of our lives, and obviously isn't in Savage's life, and I wish it were. I truly believe that the kind of inner peace that Tony radiated could solve many of the world's problems, if we could all have even a touch of it. I can't read Savage's words and even begin to take them seriously, because when I think of Transgendered, I think of Tony, and all I can see is beauty and peace.
What a beautiful and touching story. I sometimes think its the people we come into contact with that shape our perceptions. Some people see those in need as vulnerable and say there but for the grace of God go I lets help others see parasites looking for a free lunch maybe its the different people in those situations we knew when we were young. I am glad Tony touched your life which was enriched from knowing him. Thank you.
In order to have empathy for others, you need compassion and heart. A true psychopath has none. Seems to me that Savage has neither compassion nor heart. This pathetic man has listeners? Talk about upside-down....
I used to go to Ringling Brothers when I was a little kid, and the freak show was my favorite part of the circus.
What was it like, staring out at the large audience? Any stage fright?
I liked to see the one-breasted man. I liked to see the mustached woman.
Some things never change, do they? Just, be careful, now. Wear a condom.
But when I wake up as an adult...
Some day, Michael. Some day. Hope springs eternal.
I think Dr. Weiner was referring to his mother the one breasted man and his father the mustached woman.
The current state of free speech in popular American media: Denigrating a dead woman. God bless America?
This guy's got a lot of nerve saying somebody else ought to be in a back ward howling on medication.
This is the same man who supported a Washington Post employee who sexually harassed a pre-teen girl, calling him a "normal pervert" who "should get an award that it wasn't a boy." He's the pervert and the freak.
He didn't support the guy. He was making a joke there. Liberal lies will not be tolerated here.
Jokes are supposed to be funny.
I thought that it was funny. Savage could have had a great career as a standup comedian. You lose.
WeinerRocks and WeinerforPresident: we need you more than ever.
Come to think of it, I'm glad they are gone for this thread. This isn't funny, it's tragic.
Yes. Ban the sensible ones, and leave the children to their playpen.
Free Speech my arse!
Banned? When I wrote "gone", I just meant they hadn't posted in a while, but now they're back in full force.
I'm still here. Michael Savage in 2008. Borders, language, culture.
Well, there's a brilliant defense of Weiner's incredibly hateful and ignorant statements.
Seriously, when you can be replaced with a broken record, it's time to rethink your strategy.
I am begging the GOP to run the insane Weinerdog for Pres. He would get the insand Weinerdog Worshippers, and the Dems would win the election by about 20 million votes.
Savage would win in a landslide because he's a true conservative, unlike Bush the Idiot. If a candidate is for borders, language, and culture, he's going to win.
should have been in a back ward in a straitjacket for years, howling on major medication." ..
================================================
Yeah, that's exactly where Weiner should have been all these years...
Look at everyone sticking up for some demented guy who was in the process of removing his penis and growing breasts. Thats not normal anywhere on earth. Its less normal than homosexuality...at least with that you can back it up with the fact that sometimes animals partake in homosexual acts. You can't find proof anywhere else on earth that any living thing would do such a thing to itself except a mentally unstable human.
"It" probably was murdered by some grouchy old man who was fed up with his tax dollars in California being put towards this confused sicko's "operations"
I pity anyone who partakes in or supports this mental illness and self-mutilation.
You are so right Briad: the mentally ill should be murdered, stripped naked and left by freeways.
And I haven't read anybody here "sticking up" for the victim. I have read those who personally sympathize with the victim, and those who think Weiner is being vile. Nobody here has mentioned transgender rights (though they probably will now that you've brought it up).
Braid
You are a cruel & ignorant human being. You have no concept of other people, & everything that I said about your boy Wiener applies equally to you. The "it" that you referred to was a human being... a human being with hopes, & fears, & feelings just like anybody else. That you can sit there & show your smug approval of their violent, nightmarish death screams volumes for the sort of person that you have become. I have no doubt that you are very young & very self absorbed. Your posting just oozes of it. You are a loser of far more profound proportions than your obviously limited intellect could even conceive.
Do us all a favor, okay? Don't bother posting here anymore until you've grown up a bit & have something... ANYTHING... of value to say to us. We don't need your dimwitted sneers. You are simply wasting our time.
I guess the problem for is that I have grown up and you have not. My younger days consisted of me accepting these outrageous liberal beliefs and opinions, and since then I have grown up and started working full time the public sector at the county level in a major city. On a daily basis, I see first hand the garabage that liberalism supports and contintues to push. So it happens that the failures, shortcomings, and lack of substance in liberalism that has helped me grow up and accept a conservative lifestyle.
Yeah Braid. No one wants their tax dollars to go for this type of nonsense when they are better spent slaughtering thousands of Iraqis in a selfish attempt to keep the oil flowing into our 6000 pound SUV's. Oh, wait. I forgot. We aren't using our tax dollars for that. We're using our GRANDCHILDRENS' tax dollars for that. WE'RE using the credit card for this bulls**t war.
Nonsensical change of subject right there.
You're right, but it was Briad who brought up tax dollars.
Braid, I take it back about you seeming like a nice kid. You're a hateful, petulant little snot. Grow up.
Braid, I'm trying to not say things right now about you that will cause me to be removed.
Couple of points, you really should learn more before you open your mouth. Your ignorance is showing.
One more thing, have you ever heard of someone who is Intersex? Thats the term for some one who is born with both male and female sex organs. As an infant, the parents are given the choice which sex to surgically make their child. But in many cases they choose incorrectly, so they change.
So want to condemn these people too while your at it?
Let me just finish by saying, do research about transgender people, hey maybe go actually talk to some. Then come back and if you must spew your hate. Until then, go away.
"You can't find proof anywhere else on earth that any living thing would do such a thing"
Yeah like slicing open your breasts and sticking water balloons in them or stretching the skin on your face across youtr skull voluntarily. Those folks deserve what yhey get also. (Sarcasm)
Braid your a moron, you basicaly just condoned murder.
I pity any human being who undertakes the act of mental mutilation involved in becoming a hatemonger like you.
Braid .. to put it very nicely, you're a pathetic, sorry excuse for a human being.
No one deserves to be killed ... and as usual for the clueless clown posse, you assume facts not in evidence...Nowhere in this post is there anything about the victim geting tax money for their operation.
I suggest calling the closest hospital and getting on the heart transplant list. Immediately. And while you're at it, maybe a brain, too.
I wonder what Savage had to say about Rush Limbaugh's substance abuse or Bush's drunken tirades in the White House. Is he just bigoted against those he perceives as Democrats or does he hate people even if he thinks they are Republicans.
Savage has said many things about not only rush's addiction and treatment and also there have been many times that Savage has criticized Rush. Savage's pet name for Rush is 'Hush Bimbo'.
"Professional" jealousy.
I see that instead of patting Savage on the back for being consistent by also attacking conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and William Bennett when they screw up, you just shrug it off as professional jealousy. I guess that Savage can do no right in the minds of the liberals, even when he attacks Bush the Idiot.
one's sexual orienation or identity plays a role in whether one deserves to be murdered or not? well hello, Mr. Hitler!
In 1976 Travis Bickle was considered a dangerous sociopath. Now he gets 8 million listeners a week.
The only difference is that Travis had a soul and did show compassion for Iris.
And we were able to watch Travis's descent into madness. I'd love to know how the doctor has slipped so far from any human qualities.
Weiner needs a genius like Scorsese directing him. He's doing a piss-poor job of directing himself.
I'm sorry, I would like to add something touching and constructive to this conversation. I have a number of transgender friends and also a few transgender individuals in my student group.
But after reading this, I just can't think of the right words. Especially words that would not cause me to be removed by Media Matters.
I guess all I can say is, What a sick perverted a$$h0le. And if it is just an act, I hope he gets (okay, I have to stop there, I just hope god can forgive him, because I do not.)
What's also sad is this murder victim, regardless of sexual identity, had a mother that's probably greiving the loss of a child. I guess Weiner never bothered to think about that.
Oh and he looks like some a homosexual cowboy too!
I don't believe I have to say this again. Weiner is not gay and we do not want him in the clubhouse. I hope that non-sense is done now.
McCain, "thug" in the gay mafia.
I second that.
At any rate, he would not have much luck if he were. he's pretty dumpy, he doesn't even rate a paper-bagging
"Weiner is not gay"
-----
Sometimes he borders on the jovial, though...
For those who wish to learn more about Transgender issues. (I highly suggest Braid, that you spend some time reading).
Transgender Day of Remembrance
List of Those who no longer with us
Wikipedia
Transgender Law (not sure about this one, have not read all of it)
Human Rights Campaign
Never once did I say that I supported the murder of this person or was glad to see it happen. I threw out a possiblility as to why it may have happened...which really was more of a joke. But people don't have a sense of humor in here, everyone just gets offended.
And another thing, I just took a class last semester called "Human Sexuality." It was a very liberal class, and yes we learned all about transgender people and how people can be born with a little bit of both sex organs and whatnot. We even had a guest speaker come in who is a transvestite...so don't give me the run around about being uneducated on the subject or not open/exposed to it. My conclusion about the issue of transgender people is that they are confused in the head. They don't know whether they want to be male or female. That amounts to mental instability. And for me calling this person an "it"....whats wrong with that? It isn't a male or a female. I'm sorry for not using your PC terms.
I also want to say that murder is wrong, and whoever killed this person should be put in prison or put to death themself. However, for someone to tell me here that everyone is just expressing sorrow for the victim is beside the point; go to the funeral if you want to do that. MMFA posted this piece because the victim was transgender, bottom line. So lets talk about that.
Finally I want to respond to the person who called me out on the tax dollar remark. From the post, it seemed like this person was against the use of our tax dollars in Iraq, not an uncommon thought for a liberal. I would just like to point out that at this point in time, our military is less at war and more on a peacekeeping mission to surpress insurgents and make the country safe and livable for the residents. Officially, I know it is considered war...but when our Marines are being put on trial for shooting and killing the enemy, that just doesn't seem like war. As Congressman Rogers from Michigan recently stated after being in constant dialouge with returning soldiers and officers, "80-85% of Iraq is considered stable." What we are doing in Iraq right now is quite similar to the tax money spent on reducing aids in Africa. Its all about American dollars helping protect people around the world and give them the best possible life.
I'm glad that your insulated college life makes you feel comfortable enough about death to find the humor in murder.
The reason that this item is here has nothing to do with the sexual identity of the victim but everything to do with Dr. Weiner's heartless attack on the victim. H'e done this before.
And taking a class in college gives no one any insights into the human condition. Neither does sitting at your keyboard pontificating give you any idea of what war is. If you believe that our cause in Iraq is just and necessary why are you not in uniform?
And in closing, when our troops murder and commit atrocities, we as a nation need to condemn the people responsible. The people who commits these acts are a disgrace to the uniform they wear and a disgrace to all Americans.
I think Reagan's Alzheimer's made him a sick, laughable freak. I don't know why we have sympathy for those senile freaks. It was funny when he died, although I do wish he had lived longer so he could have suffered more.
Ha ha.
Was that last statement supposed to be sarcastic?
It was a joke. What, you don't recognize humor when you read it?
Braid, "MMFA posted this piece because the victim was transgender, bottom line" is incorrect. This is another example of a large multi-national corporation using inflamatory hate speech to make money. You are correct though when you refer to the bottom line, obviously that is all that matters to the producers of this program.
Yes I too took Human Sexuality. But apparently unlike you I was awake during the class.
Exhibit A: Transgender does not mean transvestite
Those are two separate terms. Also do you know that transgender people go through extensive counseling before and during the process of gender reassignment?
The reason people don't have a sense of humor is simple. This was a human being who was murdered. Sane people do not joke about some one who was killed. (the majority of us have this thing called Humanity, (I suggest you check it out) that means we understand that what Weiner said is wrong.)
Imagine, for a second that you are a parent (or the brother or sister or partner) of a child. You read this forum and see some little kid making jokes about your child's murder and defending a guy who thinks the murder was justified. What do you think you would feel? I know that it would feel like a knife was thrust into my heart, but that's only me (that humanity/empathy/etc thing again).
I never said it was justified. Everyone is putting words in my mouth.
Murder = wrong, and a punishable offense.
Transgender people = a serious mental confusion going on.
Me = commented on how tax dollars fund sex change operations in california.
Can I make it any more clear? And my reference to the transvestite speaking in class was based on the premise that I have been exposed to the personal accounts of those living alternative lifestyles. I never said transvestite = transgender, I know there is a difference.
Transgender people = a serious mental confusion going on.
Really? Seems to me like they know exactly who they are and what they want.
Their brain is telling them their body doesn't match. Thats going to be an issue...
Yes, but it's not "confusion."
What happens when she/he wants "it" back. You can't grow another one.
"I never said it was justified." --braid
'"It" probably was murdered by some grouchy old man who was fed up with his tax dollars in California being put towards this confused sicko's "operations"' --braid
I don't know if you are trying to justify the murder, but you I can see how others might reasonably get that impression from your previous post.
Braid is refusing to claim responsibility for dehumanizing the victim by attempting to classify his words and this murder as something other than what they are. This is very common among authoritarian followers. The first step is to see victims of violence as morally weak, therefore thoroughly deserving of harsh punishment. Next, they must assume the motives of the assailant to be in accordance with the dictates of a world-view that allows for no aberration from a strict, proper moral order. This eliminates confusion, which is the greatest source of fear for an authoritarian follower, as confusion or ambiguity is the greatest indicator of weakness and moral turpitude.
In this way his shame is sublimated and the proper action has been carried out by morally superior and justified individuals.
Honestly, Braid's beliefs are the sickness. But just like the transgender victim 0f hate, as in this instance, Braid is the victim of hate and is very much a weak, confused person himself.
beautifully put, Roundhouse.
dont bothertrying to explain yourself. theyll parse your words, take things out of context, misread and misunderstand, just to make you look bad and SMEAR you.
anyone who mutilates a penis to make it APPEAR as a vagina and create a NONFUNCTIONAL HOLE where there was none is obviously trying to live a FANTASY life. that person doesnt have the proper chromosome setup to be female and doesn't have the ability to bear children, and is therefore NOT A woman.
isn't it funny how no one would want a gay person to get surgery to be straight because they think you should "live how you're born" yet its perfectly ok for someone to get surgery to alter their gender appearance? Isn't that anti-male because that person is not embracing their maleness???
oh, also they will all reply to your posts and try to break you down so you are so confused then theyll fill your mind with propaganda. you need to be strong, that's why i joined the military.
Don't blame your low-quality arguments and overall weakmindedness on us.
And did you just accuse others of living a FANTASY life, "Colonel"?
Or, *GASP* you could just spew disgusting rhetoric.
Ever heard of facts?
afternoon colonel.
does a person have to have both of those attributes to "call themselves a woman"? because i know this one person who can't have children, but everything else is feminine. i'm confused. should i call her "dude" from now on?
Colonel:
"isn't it funny how no one would want a gay person to get surgery to be straight because they think you should "live how you're born" yet its perfectly ok for someone to get surgery to alter their gender appearance? Isn't that anti-male because that person is not embracing their maleness???"
I'd have to say, thats a great point. Therefore, everyone here will call it weak and not respond to it. Good work and good thinking, sir. Also - don't worry about me, I will never break down to these people and the way they think. We both know their suicidal lifestyles will kill them in the end, and we'll be sitting around thinking: "Told you so..."
Suicidal lifestyles? You are an idiot.
This is priceless. The wacky college boy, banding together with everyones favorite fictional character.
You can't make this stuff up.
Drug use, sex outside of marraige, homosexual relations, refusal to protect US citizens at home out of fear of racism or offending someone. It will catch up with you eventually.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. To be fair, I didn't either when I was your age. I repeat: grow up.
Ignorance, hatemongering, stupid strawman arguments and basic lack of higher brain function will catch up with YOU eventually. Bigoted, ignorant and hateful is no way to go through life. As of now you are wasting precious oxygen that could be used by an actual human being
"Colonel: isn't it funny how no one would want a gay person to get surgery to be straight because they think you should "live how you're born" yet its perfectly ok for someone to get surgery to alter their gender appearance? Isn't that anti-male because that person is not embracing their maleness???"
"I'd have to say, thats a great point. Therefore, everyone here will call it weak and not respond to it. --braid1626097"
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I wouldn't call it a "great point" but it seems like at least a legitimate question, so I'll take a swing at it. (See, sometimes if you bait people with the old "you won't dare to answer this" taunt, you do get a response.) In my opinion, if a gay person felt that he really wanted to be straight, and was in-effect a "straight person in a gay person's body," then as a freedom-of-choice liberal I'd tell that person to knock themselves out and to pursue whatever course would make them happy. That person should be aware, however, that the consensus medical opinion indicates that such therapies are not particularly effective (just ask John Paulk) and are potentially harmful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy#Controversies.2C_criticisms.2C_and_scandals
Of course many gay people who do seek out "reparative therapy" do so because of the still great social/religious pressure to conform to the majority standard. Conversely, the societal pressure to change sex is virtually non-existent, so people who follow that route are far more likely to be doing so because of internal feelings rather than social pressure.
"Good work and good thinking, sir. Also - don't worry about me, I will never break down to these people and the way they think. We both know their suicidal lifestyles will kill them in the end, and we'll be sitting around thinking: "Told you so..." - braid1626097"
Hey, if sitting around feeling smug about people dying is your thing, then who am I to suggest that there are finer things in life? Given that sentiment, I can see why Michael Savage would appeal to you.
Yes how is theyour metal gear military colonel?
You know I enjoyed your little rant against the "liberals" here on the this board. I was also happy to hear we cause you so much confusion.
Perhaps for your own sake you should stop visiting us.
"isn't it funny how no one would want a gay person to get surgery to be straight"
-----
Aside from the fact that no such surgery exists (and I don't see how it could exist), just what the hell are you blathering about? Not once have you ever made a post here that contained anything even resembling a fact, yet you speak of others living "fantasy [lives] ."
I believe that someone who thinks he is a character from a mindless video game has a long way to go before he has the standing to challenge anyone else to live in reality.
Murder = wrong, and a punishable offense.
Transgender people = a serious mental confusion going on.
Me = commented on how tax dollars fund sex change operations in california.
Ok......
You obviously don't know what you are talking about seriously. As a transgender person, in California, I can tell you a few things.
ME = Not confused about a thing, I know I am an woman even if you cannot rap your mind around it.
You = Bigot. Guess what, that is what it is, face the mirror and realizr it.
California = Not give tax dollars for SRS, trust me on this one, if that were the case I would have gotten hormones by now.
I feel for you boy-o I really do. You have no idea what you are talkling about and your bigotry is hanging out for all to see. If you think it is fair to be so bias then I pity you. Someday people are going to notice your "flaws" and I only hope they don't show you the same disdain you feel so justified in throwing around yourself.
um, i don't think that's his bigotry...
It's "wrap," not "rap." Duh.
If you have a "y" chromosome, you're a man. Period. End of story.
Michael Savage for President.
Oh, this is too good to be true...
I'm sure it was mentioned elsewhere, but a person who is physically female in nearly all respects can actually have a Y chromosome.
Brad, you missed the point of having a transvestite speak to your class. A transvestite IS NOT a transgendered person. I hope your classmates came away with a better understanding than you have manifested here. You REALL NEED to meet with and talk with some transgendered people. You have so much to learn. BTW, there in deed, creatures in God's creation which can and do switch sex organs as the perpetuation of their species requires for mating. But, you knew that, right?
The confusion of one's sexual identity does not make one unsuitable for society. Since the confusion is not of their own making, by what urgument do you justify your denial of their humanity? Why shouldn't they seek to align their sexual identity with their corporeal presence (body manifestation)? Your own words call for some rectification of their situation. Just how do you propose they proceed? Careful here, lest your reply be presented to you via your own offspring one day.
Your inability to see the illogic of your denunciations is pathetic! You would have made a good Nazi citizen for Hitler.
"We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel." -General Patton
That speech by Patton sums up how we need to handle our enemies in a time of war. Patton was a patriot and a battle genious; and most importantly, a large reason of why you still enjoy America and its freedoms today. To say that our troops are committing atrocities when they shoot and kill a terrorist insurgent who has an AK-47 and won't hesitate to fire at us is traitorous to our soldiers. If you consider Iraq a war, that means that our troops kill the enemy, thats what happens in war as far as I know. If you want to lose a war, you punish your own troops for doing their job as a soldier.
Also, Savage's "heartless" attack is based in the fact that this person is transgender, hence the fact that he uses the word "freak" and says the person should be in a mental institution. So you are completely wrong when you say this has nothing to sexual identity.
I see your college education hasn't quite prepared you to use the "Reply To Comment" function that most people use when they are replying to something that another poster said. I'm assuming that the above was a response to me.
Dr. Weiner most certainly did make a heartless attack on a murder victim. no amount of justification can excuse him or you for saying otherwise.
Nice quote from Patton. I don't remember him ever condoning murder or rape though. He was a tough son of a b_tch and was very effective. Cherry picking quotes from a military genius doesn't excuse the behavior of those marines and soldiers who've been convicted of, and in some cases pled guilty to murder and rape.
In any war there are rules of engagement, the instances you mention were clear violations of the ROE. And murdering civilians is not and has never been part of a soldiers job. I'd suggest that if you're going to be arguing about the duties of someone in the military, you should get some first hand experience.
Millions listen to Savage on the radio and buy his books. Savage talks straight and he talks plain. Savage is riveting because he makes definitive statements with conviction. Every listener knows exactly where he stands because he doesn't double talk. Savage gives the liberals Hell. Actually he tells the truth...they just think it's Hell.
You really believe what he's saying? It doesn't occur to you that he's just putting on a big show?
Doesn't the fact that he made the maximum campaign contribution allowed by law to one of the most liberal candidates in California, instead of his conservative opponent, make you question his sincerity?
How about the fact that his younger years were spent as a San Francisco beatnik, his best friends were gays, liberal poets, writers and freaks. Does that arouse suspician?
If he's so ultra conservative, why does he continue to live in the most liberal city in the USA? He's rich enough to live anywhere he wants to.
It's a good thing you like him so much. You'd be quite upset if you someone you hated got rich from manipulating your thoughts.
Weiner is insane. Anyone who takes him seriously needs to increase their medication. I think a good portion of those who listen to his show do so for the same reason they like to look at bad carwrecks. Pathology can be fascinating and Weiners insanity is a case study of pathology
Let me quote you: "The reason that this item is here has nothing to do with the sexual identity of the victim but everything to do with Dr. Weiner's heartless attack on the victim."
I responded by telling you that "Also, Savage's "heartless" attack is based in the fact that this person is transgender, hence the fact that he uses the word "freak" and says the person should be in a mental institution."
You then talked about excuses and justifications for Savage. I fail to see where I made any of those. I simply made it clear that Savage responded the way he did because this is a transgender issue, and that is the reason it got on this site. A combination of Savage rantings and transgender issues.
It's ok to admit that you feel it is wrong to put a bullet in the enemy, thats pacifism, and thats fine. But if YOU had an insurgent pointing an automatic weapon at you with every intention of killing you, you want to tell me that person is just a civilian who means no harm? And you would just let yourself die, and let the insurgent beat the heck out of your country? As for me, I think I'll rely on the first hand military accounts from my father, grandfathers, and two uncles until I finish college and make a decision about joining the forces.
crap, i forgot to use the reply to post thing again. Someone better rip on me, I deserve it this time.
You should be directing your complaint to the Marine commanders who've investigated the incidents and brought charges against those involved. And why did some of them plead guilty?
How do you know what you would do if someone was pointing an automatic weapon at you? No one knows what they would do until they were placed in that position. Get back to me when you've been there.
He'd probably poop and pee his pants if anyone ever pointed a gun at Braid the Braniac.
And Braid, nobody on here has ever said anything about NOT killing terrorists, and or actual people shooting at our soldiers. We are talking about the innocent people raped and or murdered, by our troops. This is of course, a very small percentage of troops who have committed these acts, and they have been charged, tried, and in some cases, convicted of these acts, as they should be.
Patton was one of our best tank commanders ever, but if you think for one second he would condone raping and killing of innocents during a time of war, I think you've misunderstood the man altogether.
No, YOU are talking about innocents being killed and raped. I'm talking about killing the enemy. A male with a weapon standing up and opposing the US military in a time of war means that he is the enemy. Think about it: The US is trying to attain peace and stability in Iraq. If our troops let someone like this slide by, that insurgent might be the next suicide bomber that blows up 80 women and children in public. Your own doctrine of "logic" and "compassion" just resulted in more innocent death.
And I don't have to be in the boots of a soldier to tell you that I would gun down every insurgent that came across my path if I could. I would actually take pleasure from killing the enemy we are at war with. I think I would even keep a tally and put it on my resume when I got back.
ATTENTION POTENTIAL EMPLOYERS!!!
think you've seen the craziest gosh-darn resumé ever? you're in for quite the treat when this braid character leaves college! i'd look forward to it if i were you.
But, you keep saying that "liberals" don't want the enemy killed, which is untrue. Terrorists? Shoot them down. Insurgents? If they're shooting at our guys, and or innocent civilians, shoot them down.
Lucky for you, the US Army and Marines would more than welcome you into their fold. I'm assuming that you're in college, so you're probably somewhere between 18-22 most likely, which means prime recruitment age. If you're so gung ho to shoot insurgents, sign up man. They keep saying how they need able bodied recruits. The only thing stopping you from signing up is yourself. Go ahead, sign up, go through boot, and then go shooting, let us know how that all susses out for you in the end. The only thing I know for certain from the people that I know that have been over in Iraq, and have shot people, and have been shot at, it's not a good time, and they don't want to go back.
Sign up chief, the only thing holding you back from keeping your "tally" is your own cowardice of being in college. You talk a good game, but can you walk the walk? I'm thinking no, not at all.
What's disturbing is how Savage, and that dumbass in this forum, throw illegal aliens and terrorists into the mix towards the end of his rant. This is his not so subtle code for his listenerships' hatred of Mexicans, Muslims and homosexuals. What a "piece of human offal", to quote the (fake) doctor himself. Allen Ginsburg must have broke his heart but good.
"Must have broke"? Huh?
Ginsburg was in NAMBLA. Thankfully, he's in hell now.
Illegal aliens are scum. God bless Michael Savage.
I seem to remember you are a self-professed Christian. Forgive me if I remember wrongly, though, 'cuz you seem pretty quick with that first stone there.
You're actually right there. I shouldn't have judged Ginsburg to hell. I got carried away by emotion. Maybe Ginsburg was truly sorry for everything before he died. Only God truly knows.
Ginsburg was still a rotten pig though. Michael Savage in 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU are a moronic Weinerdog worshipping troll. YOU give pondscum a bad name. Weinerdog has as much chance of being president as I do of marrying Jessica Simpson. Please seek professional help immediatly
Braid, are you aware that there exist Rules of Engagement? That our troops are subject to laws? Do you even know these very basic facts?
I'm still waiting for Mr. Tough Guy to go over to his local recruiting office and sign up for infantry in either the Marines or the Army. I mean, if he wants to put his money where his mouth is and all. But I'm sure that he won't.
Are you aware of what the current rules of engagement are? They are quite similar to the thought process a state trooper must go through before he can use his weapon. And we sit here and are bothered by the fact that our troops and innocents are dying? It obviously doesn't bother our elected officials because they won't change the rules to allow our men to do what they do best: erase the enemy from the face of the earth.
So you can remind me of the rules of engagement, but it is those rules which are inhibiting total US success in Iraq. Does anyone honestly think we can really win this thing with restrictive rules similar to that of state troopers governing our soldiers?
You truly are one tough fella, full of piss and vinegar. I'm sure you'd make a fine soldier if it weren't more important for you to be taking Gender Studies classes on the way to earning your history degree. But hey, maybe the war will be over by then, right? One can always hope.
Yes, I am aware that the Rules of Engagement are somewhat restrictive, as well they should be when our troops are fighting an enemy who blends in with civilians whose hearts and minds we ultimately need to win over. Perhaps you feel that accidentally killing more civilians would help our cause. I happen to disagree.
I knind of agree with you on how the enemy blends in with the innocents, its a tough situation.
As for my college...thanks to liberal influence in education these days...that class actually counted towards general education credits under the category of "Social Studies." Pathetic, I know. Its bad when I can get credit for a smuck class like that, and an advanced calculus class will only score me elective points. Sorry that was off topic, but I had to do it.
Perhaps you should get a real major, like science. When I took calculus (through differential equations) it not only counted; it was required. But if you did that, what could you blame "liberals" for?
kudos to you, rusty. i got my bs in applied math. diff eq was def my favorite course. partial diff eq was fun too
I wish I could say the same, Kernel. I hated it! Got an "A", but lord help me if I had to try and solve a diffy Q today.
"Sorry that was off topic, but I had to do it."
Don't apologize. 99% of your posts are off-topic.
When are you signing up sport? Or did your faux-patriotism not get served up with the helping of balls it takes to go to war?
Holy F*cking Sh*t. I guess I better run out and sign up today to give you liberals the instant gratification you are used to. I consider our troops of the past and present to be role models and I am thankful for and support the work they do. Obviously appreciation is not considered a form of sincerety here, only action is.
If I do make the decision to join, I wouldn't want to pull you out from marching in the gay/tranny pride parade, so keep to yourself, I don't want any of you wishing me goodbye.
The troops of the past and present are honorable men. Men who did what was necessary and then went back to their lives. Many, were men who you mock today because of their sexual orientation.
You are not fit to thank or support these men. They are something that you, and Dr. Weiner will never be. They are MEN. Not cowardly college students or Doctors of nutrition who hide behind their keyboards or microphones.
Sorry, but you'll never be anything but a little boy.
I'm still waiting for you to tell us when you're signing up. Because you were talking very tough a few minutes ago. When is the big day? I'll come out and wish you well on your trip to boot camp.
Yes, maybe we could help him celebrate his fist kill.
But if he keeps being led around by hate mongers like Savage, that kill might not take place in Iraq, but here on the streets of America as he rids us of our "freaks and psychopaths".
Braid, your comment on the ROE restricting our troops is poppy cock! This post started with discussion of your idolized Mr. Savage disparaging the report of a murder. You introduced the anti-terrorism branch. And did so with false info at that. Young man, you have no idea how true the saying, "War Is Hell!" You need to keep far, far, far away from that truth lest you be crushed by its reality. You have no idea of the torment you would have visited upon your 'Hollywood fooled" eyes!
So in other words the big problem in Iraq is we just arent killing enough innocent people? You do know that you make zero sense right?
The rules of engagement are stupid.
The liberals support Bush the Idiot's rules of engagement. WTF?
Not quite. Rules of engagement are necessary YOU are stupid
I didn't say that there should be no rules of engagement. I said that the current ones are stupid. Learn to read.
Yes you do need to be in those boots to know what you would do in any situation.
Everyone can be a badass on the keyboard in their dorm room. War is no game. Anyone who's been there takes it to bed with him every night for the rest of his life.
No one has been charged with killing any enemy combatant. No one has been charged with crimes for fighting in a battle. I don't know where you get your information.
Compared to the overwhelming majority of people who have served and are serving in our military, you are the FREAK. Those men and women served honorably and did the job at hand without violating the rules of engagement or raping and murdering anyone.
No one that I know who has served in the military would ever condone murder and only a true psychopath would take pleasure in taking a life.
You need to grow up, son.
Or join the military, and learn first hand what hell war is.
I Don't think so much that Savage's comments are hateful, but more of a incindiary nature. Savage by his nature and the way he conducts his talk show makes very incindiary comments. I believe to gin up this kind of response not only from those who listen or agree but also those who disagree.
Bottom line Having ummarried sex, Homosexuality, Transgenderism, Sexual Perversion Rape, Molestation, and other sexual crimes are WRONG!! and they are all in the same boat. You didn't make the rules and neither did I or Savage. But they are the rules.
Lets stop making ourselves feel better about doing things that are wrong. Savage is right, albeit uncouth and terse, but right on the money
And BTW let's kick out those illegals to, Lt.Gov Bustamante.
Miz Etheridge should be ashamed of herself. but I hate the hollywood eliteist attitude anyway the oscars are a WASTE.
I Don't think so much that Savage's comments are hateful, but more of a incindiary nature. Savage by his nature and the way he conducts his talk show makes very incindiary comments. I believe to gin up this kind of response not only from those who listen or agree but also those who disagree.
Bottom line Having ummarried sex, Homosexuality, Transgenderism, Sexual Perversion Rape, Molestation, and other sexual crimes are WRONG!! and they are all in the same boat. You didn't make the rules and neither did I or Savage. But they are the rules.
Lets stop making ourselves feel better about doing things that are wrong. Savage is right, albeit uncouth and terse, but right on the money
And BTW let's kick out those illegals to, Lt.Gov Bustamante.
Miz Etheridge should be ashamed of herself. but I hate the hollywood eliteist attitude anyway the oscars are a WASTE.
Dave, Dave, Dave... Are you freakin' kidding me over here?
Savage, makes hateful, hate filled comments daily. He can't help it. Just listen to what he says. They're not incendiary, they're downright hateful. He sounds like a KKK member, or one of those guys from that "God Hates f*** group in Kansas, or wherever they're from.
From the alleged sexual "crimes" that you listed, only molestation and rape are actually against the law. Last I knew, being gay wasn't against the law, although I assume people such as yourself wish that it was. Same thing for being transgendered, not against the law, and neither is having pre-marital sex. I didn't make the rules, but legislators throughout the years have made the rules, and they have said that indeed, most of the things that you listed are not against the "rules". Now if you're talking about "God's rules" which I assume that you are, show me where in the Bible it actually says anything about being gay is wrong. Doesn't exist. Same thing for being transgendered. Where in the Bible does it say that is wrong? It doesn't.
Savage is very rarely "on the money" as you say. He's a kook, and it appears from your ramblings that there is a good chance you might be as well. And what exactly does Miss Etheridge have to be ashamed about?
Dave,
Knowing a all we know about the science of human sexuality, which do you think was more likely.
1)The "virgin" mary was knocked up by some invisble, almighty man that lives in the sky.
or
2) She got busy with a Roman soldier (probably named Lucius Nocondomus), and had to tell Joseph something.
I think your whole belief system is wrong.
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!
Unmarried sex and molestation? WTF Seriously.
So, yeah, Ummm there are places where what you said are actually true, except that we are currently bombing them into the stone age.
What small minded thing to say. You have my pity.
While I don't agree with the "psychopath" comment, the "freak" comment fits perfectly. While there is a debate, scientific and otherwise, whether or not being homosexual is a choice or a natural occurance there is no conceivable logical explination to the "transgender" movement. This person, sadly, is a freak, and unfortunately it was of his/her own doing. Some people are born handicapped/ deformed those should be taken into consideration but those people do not choose their lot in life. I think Savage is wrong to say that this person was a "psycopath" but is 100% right on the "freak" statement, and the statement that this person should be institutionalized. This person made a conscience choice to change the natural order of his/her sexuality and therefore, became a freak, but not one that should be looked at in the same light as a handicapped/deformed person because he/she brouhgt the change on his/herself. Not to say that this murder wasn't a bad thing, no one should die for living their life as they wish as long as it's within the law. However, I would venture to say that if this person would have received the psyciatric help that he/she obviously needed he/she would not have been subject to this murder (it is a possible hate crime). My contention is that if someone brings this change on themselves they shouldn't be looked at as if it was a natural occurance and therefore are freaks of their own making.
This person is only a "freak" because you, and others like you, make her a freak. If you just accepted it, she wouldn't be a "freak" at all. And what she did has no bearing on you whatsoever does it? Nah, didn't think so. She wasn't a freak, and if people keep saying that women like her are "freaks" then they will be forever.
Actaully, this person was a freak. It is not possible, in the natural order of things for a human to change it's genital organs. I'm well aware that there are hermaphroditic organisms in nature but they don't require surgery to change themselves. I'm not blaming her/him on his/her murder but I am using logic (you should try it sometime) to point out that if he/she would have gotten the psyciatric help that he/she obviously needed then he/she may not have been subject to the hate that led to this possible hate crime. My point is that minorities, homosexuals (still in the air whether this is a choice), etc., who are victims of hate crimes fit into the hated group through no fault of their own. However the person in question did this to herself. The vaery existance of "trangender" people is a perversion of science.
"However the person in question did this to herself.
- - savagerocks / Thursday March 22, 2007 02:09:42 PM EST"
goodness me. i take my hat off to you, that's quite the statment.sorry about that. these damn internets are not helping.
just congratulating you, SR, on really raising the bar. kudos. this is really remarkable:
"However the person in question did this to herself. The vaery existance of "trangender" people is a perversion of science.
Well, it is true. It's unfortunate, if this was a hate crime, that this happened. While I don't agree with the "trangender" movement, I don't at all condone violence against such people. That said if this person would not have undergone the surgeries neccesary to become the opposite sex there would have been no target placed on this person by whatever individual commited the possible hate crime
You are so ridiculous. Again, you're blaming the victim for what happened to her. This is no better than people saying, "That woman was raped because she was scantily dressed."
Wow, do you even have the abitlity to read? If a woman is raped it is because she was born a woman and the rapist is a degenerate animal. My entire point is that there is not one example in nature of an organism being "born" the wrong sex and later in life "deciding" it is the opposite sex. This is a phenomenon unique to humans. My point is that though this crime was heinous, the person in question would not have been a potential victim of this possible hate crime had he/she allowed narture to continue to take it's course. And you're example of petite women not being able to have large breats naturally is laughable. My ex was 5'1" 110 lbs and had 36d's. I guess she was quite a freak....I enjoyed it though.
Wrong again. There are amphibians, specifically frogs, that can randomly change sex from one to another. So again, you're wrong, it does actually take place in nature, so I guess that this fits your definition of what can and can't be done to someone right?
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/bio99/bio99128.htm
You're saying that because this woman had her sex changed that she was murdered. That is the same as saying someone dressed sexy that's why she got raped. Do you think a murderer any less of a social degenerate?
"My ex was 5'1" 110 lbs and had 36d's. I guess she was quite a freak....I enjoyed it though."
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Judging from your attitude, it's very clear why she's your ex...
"My point is that though this crime was heinous, the person in question would not have been a potential victim of this possible hate crime had he/she allowed narture to continue to take it's course." SR
Translation, "Nonconformists threaten our gleaming utopia. Murder is unacceptable however, nonconformists make themselves justifiable targets of morally superior true believers."
would you really like me to take your argument to its logical conclusion? because i don't think you'll enjoy it.
Oh please enlighten me.
no problem. you said that "That said if this person would not have undergone the surgeries neccesary to become the opposite sex there would have been no target placed on this person by whatever individual commited the possible hate crime".
basically, this person made a choice that they knew would possibly provoke an irrational person into killing them for no good reason. how is this any different from saying that a woman who dresses sexily should have known better, and is in some way responsible for her rape?
Because, as history shows, women are not only raped because of what they wear. Women throughout history have been raped by men regardless of what they were wearing. My point is that rapists do not neccesarly target scantily clad women. However, if this was a hate crime by someone who targets trangender, then beacause of the choice to change genders this person made themselves a target to a person who possibly exclusively targets trannies.
my head hurts.
i never suggested that only scantily clad women were the victims of rape; that is, if i may, an utter "straw man". what i did say is that there are cases of rapists attempting to defend themselves on the grounds that the victim was dressed "provocatively", and such men still exist.
for another example, the IRA used to kill Protestants. should they all convert?
They brought it on themselves. No animal in nature rejects the Papacy.
too right. except for the lion. beef with christians going back about 2,000 years.
Read a book.
It's also not possible for a small framed woman to go from say a 32A bra size to 36DDDs, so are you saying that they're not freaks as well (just using your logic here is all, you should try it).
It's not what about is "natural" or not, because most of us, in some form or another don't retain our "natural" condition as it were. Ever have dental work done? Not natural. Ever have your tonsils out? Not natural. Your argument is weak at best. Again, the only reason these folks are seen as freaks, is because society in general, and people like yourself in specific, pen them up as such things.
Again, it's not this woman's fault that she was murdered, and if you haven't been listening, generally for someone to get to the point of having extensive re-assignment surgery, they do have to go to a psychiatrist, for years on end, and live as (in this case) a woman for a number of years before they get re-assignment surgery. This woman was killed because of the thought patterns of some people who find this disagreeable.
This woman was killed because of the thought patterns of some people who find this disagreeable.
And yet, astonishingly, Weiner does not screech that the murderer should have been "in a back ward in a straitjacket for years, howling on major medication." Because, clearly, Weiner approves of what the murderer did.
No, he obviously doesn't. What he is pointing out is that by allowing people who are clearly disturbed to undergo unatural changes to their entire physical and sexual being it puts them in harms way. His point is that this person would have been safer had he/she been given the proper medical treatment, ie, possible institutionalization, and in fact, if this would have happened she/he would still be alive today.
If Weiner didn't tacitly approve of the murder he'd be excoriating the murderer in his wacky, over-the-top style, not the victim. Yet here we see him describing the transgendered in terms of utter hatred, as sub-human "freaks" who deserve no sympathy. So, gosh, if that's true, then why shouldn't they all be killed?
It's called eliminationist rhetoric. Weiner is the master of it - better even than Coulter. And it's reprehensible no matter how you try to dance around it.
"No, he obviously doesn't. What he is pointing out is that by allowing people who are clearly disturbed to undergo unatural changes to their entire physical and sexual being it puts them in harms way."
-----
Yes, they put themselves in harm's way and in danger of being murdered by clueless, ignorant bigots and the idiots on message boards who blame them instead of the ones who attack and kill them.
That is precisely the same argument as "allowing women to go out in public scantily dressed puts them in harm's way." It's called "blaming the victim," and you haven't clue number one what you are talking about.It only puts them in the 'harms way' of hate filled morons, the kind that listen to Hatemonger bigots like Weiner. His insanity fans the FLAMES of the very hatred that is the REAL cause of tragic horrors like those visited on this victim. Weiner is part of the PROBLEM. Not those who have an emotional need to be different than the box YOU demand they stay in.
Shall we call people who have face lifts freaks? What about boob jobs? Nose jobs? Seems to me they fit your criteria as well.
Comparing someone who alters their appearance slightly throuhg plastic surgey to someone who changes the entire composition of their body is apples to oranges. During a sex change people have to undergo more extensive/life altering surgery and hormone treatment to change their entire being. Your comparison is feeble at best
So, the line between normal and "freak" is drawn at the point at which you are personally uncomfortable with the person's choice?
Exactly what you said Rusty.
Negative, the line between normal and freak is drawn between what is a natural human state and what is IMPOSSIBLE without surgery. I'm well, aware that there are very rare occasions in which people are born with both sex organs and are usually operated on to become one sex or the other. However, to make a decision later in life on what sex you want to be and to resort to surgery (not "normal") to do so is unatural.
define surgery.
seriously. because the people they used to exhibit for two bits a gander in travelling "freak shows" were how they were without surgery.
i want my money back! those weren't freaks!
I already commented that some people are born with both or seemingly both sex organs but that it is not natural to "choose" to change later in life
that's super. didn't answer my question though.
your position is, if i understand it, that this poor woman was a freak because: she had surgery to fundamentally alter her identity and natural state.. therefore, define surgery.
If I have to define simple terms for you it shows that you have no logic to dissprove my assertions.
i'll cut to the chase.
surgery is a medical procedure usually performed to halt the effect of disease. it is often employed in life-saving situations, where, without it, the patient would die.
as someone else has already asked, what is "natural" about cutting open and fixing a heart, for example, or removing a tumour? jeez, they probably smoked anyway, they knew the risks! let nature take its course, right?
right?
To compare life saving, neccesary surgery to someone who wants to change their genitals on a whim proves that Savage is correct in his assertion that in some cases "Liberalism is a mental disorder". Sexual reassaginment surgery is about as neccesary as a nose job. To compare it to saving someone's life you's have to be pretty illogical, but, then again, you are a lib so I've already made the assuption that you probably don't work in logic to begin with
and it only took you 1hr20 minutes to start attacking the messenger, instead of the message.
anyway, make up your mind. is it a 'whim', or a 'mental disorder'?
Actually, Weinerrocks, Zork was using your own logic. You just didn't like where it ended up.
Sexual reassaginment surgery is about as neccesary as a nose job.
I couldn't ask for a better example of how ignorant you are. Do you need a therapist to approve a nose job? Do you need to be on hormones and living as a person with a smaller nose for at least a year beforehand? Do people shun you for having it done? Are you ever killed for having a nose job?
Transsexuals have to go through a lot of see are ay pee to get what you and I take for granted: having a preferred gender. Unless you get REALLY drunk in some backwater nation with a huge wad of cash in your pocket, it's NEVER done "on a whim".
Exhibiting more Weinerdog worshippers patented brainwashing I see. The FACT that you are far to ignorant to even RECOGNIZE higher brain function much less partake in it, doesnt make it a mental disorder its just liberals with an actual functioning cerebral cortex are far beyond your meager comprehension level. Its ok, the shortbus was MADE for people like you.
oh, and if i could, SR, i know i'm kinda hogging the spotlight this afternoon, but could you explain dr. savage's last statement: "Everything is upside down."
surely he doesn't mean that wealthy white guys like him should get a chance to have less fortunate people bend over backwards for him? seriously, i'd like to know what you think.
the line between normal and freak is drawn between what is a natural human state and what is IMPOSSIBLE without surgery.
Really? Says who? And if that's true, then why isn't a woman who gets a boob job a freak? Why isn't Dick Cheney a freak? He would have died long ago if he was living in accordance with nature. Yet he remains alive, as much machine as man. Freak? Normal?
Bad example, Rusty.
Dick Cheney IS a freak!
No it's not. Because if done right, there are transgendered people who you would never have known weren't men, and or women before they went through gende reassignment surgeries. It's a type of body modification to change something that they don't "like" about themselves, much the same as ordinary plastic surgery. As I said before, the only reason these people are seen as "freaks" is because you pidgeonhole them into being freaks.
took you a while to respond today, SR. what happened, the savage appreciation society get delayed e-mailing out the party line?
I work, jackass.
fair enough. i just missed you, is all.
xxx
"I work, jackass."
-----
Good to see you've started signing your work.
Oh, and nice work on blaming the victim for being murdered. Top notch right there.
The fact that you people zorkmundsson, and rusty, at the very least, are comparing an uneccesary sexual reassignment procedure to life saving operations such as heart surgery proves emphatically, and quite honestly, sadly, that some people on the left are infact facing some sort of mental problem. I feel sorry for those of you inflicted with this horrible condition, really I do. If you can't see the difference between lifesaving surgery and a procedure one elects to done even though they are in no physical danger if the procedure is not done, there's really no debating with people your delusional concepts. You're steadfast beliefs prove that your views on such issues require the same faith required by some religous zealots. I've tried to use logic to debate this topic but the argument that neccesary and unessecary surgeries are one in the same is the most illogical statement I've ever read. You should really, please seek some help in regards to your reasoning abilities.
CTT2 (SW) Timothy Mathis
On that I must return to work.
bye, SR! maybe next time you can explain dr. savage's "upside-down" comment, apparently you didn't have time for it today!
xxx
aw, nuts, SR thinks i'm stoopid. and all i did was try to understand. i mean, i thought he was saying that this poor murder victim put herself in danger because she had surgery, itself an unnatural act.
turns out, my problem is that, in SR's eyes, i'm a lib. and therefore mentally ill. i'm sure he is well versed in the neurological and physiological aspects of that really quite technical term, or else he wouldn't toss it around with gay abandon before wandering off in a huff.
WOE IS MEEEEE.
It's not in my eyes, it's pretty much a fact that you must be challenged in some way. For anyone to actually believe that open heart surgery, a procedure which saves lives, is on the same plain as an unessecary sexual reassignment surgery a procedure that's not needed there's no debating you. You are clearly not playing with a full deck. The complete lack of rationality required to believe this puts you on the same level as snake handlers and other zealots.
Get back to us when you can explain why elective self-image reassignment cosmetic surgery doesn't make one a freak but gender reassignment surgery does make one a freak.
Actually I'm trying to get you to nail down the dividing line between "freak" and normal. You keep dancing around because you have already decided that a transgendered person is a freak, yet you can't quite come up with a logically consistent way to reach that conclusion. All Zork and I have done is show you how your logic fails.
Your latest attempt seems to be that life-saving surgery is normal, but elective surgery makes you a freak. I think that's my favorite so far, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with next.
QUIET YOU CRAZY LIB!!! WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH YOU!!
They and myself are not. You are the one who said that sexual re-assignment surgery is not "natural", and therefore, neither is surgery that is not elective (you know, the life saving stuff), so according to your own logic, nobody should receive any surgery, because it's not natural. Or did you forget about that whole line of reasoning that you used? I think you did. But anyway, I don't expect you to see the analogy at all.
If you can't see the diffenrence between an unessecary surgery and one that you must have to save your life you are mentally challenged.
We can see the difference. We just don't understand why the unnecessary surgery makes one a "freak."
Savagerocks is absolutely right there.
No he isnt and if he were it would be the very first time. Just because your pathologies agree that doesnt make them correct.
SR, Another link you might find interesting - "Dozens of animal species, from types of fish and crustaceans to mollusks and worms, spontaneously change sex..." - http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20031027/sexchange.html. This can also happen to people, there are those whose appearance is female until 16-18 and then everything descends and they become male. You, Braid, Evillib and several others illustrate perfectly the state of science education today in the USA.
Yeah, I already addressed that.
Our steadfast belief is that people ought to be free to do what they want if it doesnt harm someone else. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Another concept far beyond the meager comprehension level of a moron who cannot even envision life with a functioning cerebral cortex. Go rent a brainpan and get back to us.
Michael Savage is the prime example of an old Texan expression "All hat and no cows" in other word a faux cowboy. I won't go into the hx of the term cowboy, but it does not have anything to do with the American West.
Reminds me of Cartman from the new South Park episode, "With apologies from jesse Jackson". Cartman fights with 'midget' in this one.
http://www.southparkstuff.com/season_11/episode_1101/
Savage Pox:1. There are many, many instances in the natural world of animals changing sex from several different orders. See Biological Exuberance & Evolutions Rainbow (written by a Stanford Prof - who happens to be a transgender person)2. Several studies have shown transsexual woman to have biological features (brain structures, finger length ratio, and epigenetic features) that match the sex they transition to - so - no - we are intrinsically different from say - you just getting gender reassignment surgery. At least what you purport about yourself. We are much more akin to those you feel more generous towards who are born with more visible intersex conditions. Do you consider Cheney to be healthy since you can't see his disability?3. Studies show no greater degree of psychopathology among transsexual women than the rest of the population - other than expected depression & other such conditions attributed to social stressors created by people - well - you know they types - they call people freaks and take some perverse pleasure in their pain or degradation. Talk about psychopathology!4. Transsexuals level of functioning improves after receiving this treatment you disparage. 5. Yes - in order to receive surgical treatment people need to have been approved by two therapists as - well - being saner than some I could mention. See ya in that back ward?6.Many, many men and women can't have children. To use this standard would mean every post menopausal person was not a woman.7. Yes - our vaginas are functional. Um - quite so.8. When in the very near future transsexual women are capable of reproduction in a fashion you deem "natural" - will you then retract your statements.9. This person who was murdered was someone’s friend, someone’s child and was loved by people. What piece of nomenclature from the DSM seems appropriate to you to use when referring to someone who increases their grief by disparaging the dead? Likely an Axis II disorder with narcissistic features? Though creep - or even freak isn't totally unwarranted.
*cuts out and keeps*
excellent work.
Thanks - sorry about the missing carriage returns and spacing. Not sure how that happened.
Kathy, that post was so chock-full of logic and persuasive argumentation that it will be utterly ignored by Braid and Weinerrocks as they seek lower-hanging fruit. Excellent work.
"Savage: You are a rich man and can afford to live anywhere you wish. Why stay in a city you claim to hate? Why not move to a place that is more sympathetic to your opinions? San Francisco's loss will be Mordor's gain, I'm sure."
====================
Indeed - someone who moves from the City with the largest number of gay people in the world to one with the highest percentage of gay people in the world - and states he hates them - clearly has more unresolved issues than he can admit to himself.
Someone believing that happened by chance is the kind of person the casino industry was built upon. The "good doctor" should look up the psychological concept of something being overdetermined. It wasn't just the lovely views that attacted him to the City by the Bay.
One can almost have some small sympathy for this poor person and his hateful existence. He needs to try to externally control and eliminate those aspects that he internally has no control over.
I'm chuckling here. I love this assertion that someone could have inner gay tendencies because of where they live. Forget that he was born in NYC, and forget that his radio career is based in San Fran. My cousin moved from Chicago to Arkansas because of a highly profitable job offer. That must mean he has some inner voice that tells him he wants to be a white trash hillbilly. Maybe some therapy or medication could cure him of this mental problem of living where he can be successful.
This is complete and total nonsense.
I'm chuckling here. I love this assertion that someone could have inner gay tendencies because of where they live.
You mean where he CHOSE to live of his own FREE WILL despite everything he says that would suggest he'd rather live somewhere else. When your cousin there is paid as much as a radio personality with an 8-million strong audience, then goes on to complain about how much he hates Arkansas, maybe it's time for him to rethink his lifestyle.
Check out this story: "Ill. Students Sue to Wear Anti-Gay T-Shirts; State Civil-Union Bill Advances". I can't believe ignorance is still so rampant and bigotry so widespread.
Katy Beekman ~ DiversityInc
Why is that ignorant and bigoted? Do you not believe in giving everyone a voice? Do you have something against the voice of christians? If students can have a day in honor of homosexuals, why can't students who don't agree with that lifestyle voice their opinion? When you call the opposition to the gay movement ignorant and bigoted, you undermine the free speech of the opposition. Why do you get the privilage to express yourself and nobody else can express a different feeling?
Why is that ignorant and bigoted? Wait a second here - are you asking why hatred of gays because they are gay is bigotry? Do you really need that explained to you?
Do you not believe in giving everyone a voice? Do you have something against the voice of christians? If students can have a day in honor of homosexuals, why can't students who don't agree with that lifestyle voice their opinion? When you call the opposition to the gay movement ignorant and bigoted, you undermine the free speech of the opposition. Why do you get the privilage to express yourself and nobody else can express a different feeling? I have no problem with the voice of Christians. All that stuff about not judging others and loving your enemies is pretty cool. But when you treat hate speech (which is very different from dissent) as civil discourse, there is a problem. If you can't tell the difference between civil discourse and hate speech, you aren't intelligent enough to use the internet.
It's not hate speech. Try again.
Christians don't hate gays. We just oppose their evil behavior. Being against evil behavior does not violate "love thy neighbor." Next?
Nice doublespeak, there. You left out "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" though.
You can't love someone while labeling their behavior "evil". Maybe you can come up with some arguments against consensual sex between two adults, but please don't throw around labels.
According to that logic, there were people whom Jesus didn't love. He constantly pointed out where people were morally wrong. Now, you can have that view, but it's not consistent with Christianity.
Nice try at distraction, but Katy did not say anything about suppressing anyone's "voice."
After all of the nonsense Braid was spouting about his desire to kill and then to be able to brag about it, couldn't you guess that he was eventually going to complain about being the oppressed, poor Christian?
Of course, Worrier. In our society there is no greater victim than the Christian white male. If only they could get some representation in our government...
"Why is that ignorant and bigoted? Wait a second here - are you asking why hatred of gays because they are gay is bigotry?" -- No I'm not. I'm asking why you are all making false accusations that the students who voice their opions against gays are ignorant and bigoted. You liberals are all so big on giving everyone an equal shot, and you have never even spoken with these students. All you know is that they were speaking out on an issue.
Also, no she didnt say anything about supressing people's voice, but the article she posted reports on how when those who disagree with the gay movement speak out, they are immediately silenced (told to take off the t-shirt).The t-shirt reads, "My Day of Silence, Straight Alliance" -- There is no hate present there. The back of the shirt says, "Be happy, not gay" -- a clever play on words, but it certainly isn't hate speech.It is false to claim generally that "those who disagree with the 'gay movement' are immediately silenced." People freely and loudly speak out against the "gay movement" all the time.
That kid was "silenced" because her T-shirt violated a school policy that will probably (I hope) be found to be unconstitutionally overbroad. It wasn't because the T-shirt was anti-gay; it was because the T-shirt was potentially offensive to other students.
Don't sweat it - you are still allowed to be as anti-gay as you like.
Thanks, I will be.
Doesn't it bother you how feminized society has become though? Some gets offended over a statement another person makes, and we need to go to court to check out the constitution's position on a t-shirt. You don't think that has passed the common sense line of people being able to handle their problems between eachother?
Of course the courts are going to buckle to the gays pleading they are offended (I don't even know why money is being wasted on court costs here). That is almost as wrong as the "honorable" US District Judge Reed striking down the Child Online Protection Act recently. Nothing like the good old ACLU to advocate for children's first amendment right to view porno. So you, mr. liberal, should be happy: The perverts always win.
Some gets offended over a statement another person makes, and we need to go to court to check out the constitution's position on a t-shirt. You don't think that has passed the common sense line of people being able to handle their problems between eachother?
It was your little anti-gay activist who scurried off to file a lawsuit, rather than handling her problem herself. Perhaps you should take that up with her.
Of course the courts are going to buckle to the gays pleading they are offended (I don't even know why money is being wasted on court costs here).
I see your grasp of the situation is poor. "The gays" won't be a party to this suit, so the court won't have a chance to "buckle under" to them.
That is almost as wrong as the "honorable" US District Judge Reed striking down the Child Online Protection Act recently.
Because it was unconstitutionally overbroad, in that it would restrict constitutionally protected expression - the same reason the school's T-shirt policy will probably be struck down. My, I hope you aren't planning on taking that history degree to law school.
Nothing like the good old ACLU to advocate for children's first amendment right to view porno.
That is a lie. When you resort to lies to make your arguments, you've lost.
By defending the COPA to be struck down, tell me what the ACLU is advocating then? Pornography is illegal for minors under 18 to view. Why wouldn't you want to have as many filters and protections as possible in place for keeping that material away from the eyes of minors?
Why don't you look it up on the ACLU's website. Or hell, read a legitimate news article about it. I have to go for the weekend. Ta ta.
The porn industry has bought the courts, as Savage has brilliantly stated. Porn should not be recognized as speech. In fact, it should be totally banned. The founding fathers never meant for that garbage to be considered "speech."
And the Jews control the banks, amirite? Get your crazy conspiracy theories out of here.
And if you think the founding fathers should be the alpha and omega of our legal/social system, go buy some black slaves like they owned.
Nice try. The thirteenth amendment banned slavery.
It's funny how the liberals hate big business but love big porn.
Doesn't it bother you how feminized society has become though? Some gets offended over a statement another person makes, and we need to go to court to check out the constitution's position on a t-shirt. - This speaks volumes about your opinions regarding women.
It also shows your lack of understanding in the matter.
The Day of Silence is not a "celebration" of gays. Its a memorial to all those gay students who have been silenced over the years. As for heterosexuals, they already have a number of days, i.e. 364 other days. Is it too much to ask to have one day of the year?
Also there is a difference in the t-shirts
The Day of Silence Shirts: informational, does not say anything against heterosexuals (in fact many heterosexual students get involved too). They are used to identify those participating, since they can't speak. They are also affirmations of respect and love for others.
The straight t-shirts: are a protest against against an event that shows acceptance of others. They may not say something like what those people in Westbero church would say, but the intent is show disapproval of the event.
The people who wore these shirts, and participate in the day of truth anti-gay event, are often asked to remove material and t-shirts. Its usually less about not approving of the event. Its more often in the stories, because they cause disruption and have in the past disrupted class rooms and destroyed school property.
Oh man back with this completely ignorant feminized society thing? Tell me, did your father love you? Did he care if you went hungry? If you were suffering? Now the money question DID THOSE FEELINGS MAKE HIM LESS OF A MAN? You really need to stop taking Weiner seriously the man is insane. Weinerdog worship is detrimental to your sanity. I would say your soul but that appears to have vacated the premises long ago. Perhaps the first time you referred to another human being as IT or ridiculed that kid who was a bit different than your conformity worshiping peers could be comfortable with.
I'm asking why you are all making false accusations that the students who voice their opions against gays are ignorant and bigoted. - Because bigotry is an opinion too, one which can violate a person's right to not feel threatened in their place of work or, in this case, study. You can argue that these opinions aren't bigotry, which I suppose is debatable, but assuming it is, how can you say students have the right to be this hostile towards each other?
Let me share a statement that I think we might all be able to agree on: "No person is right 100% of the time, and no person is wrong 100% of the time."
The gay movement is not correct on 100% of the issues that it deals with (even though everyone on here defends it like it is). However, it isn't always wrong on everything, I can admit that. The straight opposition to the gay movement isn't wrong 100% of the time, like everyone on here thinks. At the same time, we aren't right all the time either.
With that in mind, we unfortunately have to put up with each other's opinions and actions. Fine. The important thing here is that when the overwhelming majority of the country is opposed to the gay movement, yet it still gets advanced on us because of liberal judges, thats socialism--shoving something down the throat of a society that they don't want.
Gender / Human Sexuality: Engineered, Not Chosen
Some day. I'm going to lay it out in writing but for purposes of this discussion I will give the thumbnail version of my thoughts on human sexuality/gender/whatever.
Physiologically speaking, all human beings, when dissected, are basically the same. Look at your fellow human being as a piece of hardware.
Our genetics and family lineage provide our programming and environment reinforces or changes our behavior through experience. Look at an individual's intelligence, sexuality or any other variable trait that sets them apart from the rest of their fellow beings and across ethnic lines.
Create a visual reference such as a rainbow, bell curve, scale from one to a hundred or anything like it to chart people's sexual proclivities.
Let's say, for the purposes of this discussion, that the number one represented on the scale is considered the most testosterone laden, knuckle dragging, a male chauvinist pig, mouth breathing, hairy, animalistic, viral man anyone can find on the planet. Now, go to the number one-hundred and what would we find to represent the ultimate and literally polar opposite of number one? Would it be the "woman" who’s had the sex change operation because her genetic programming, which makes her who she really is, got inadvertently placed in the wrong hardware?
Please don’t misunderstand me. The woman who has the sex change operation is not, I repeat not, an abnormal human being any more than if one were to compare George Bush next to Albert Einstein. Einstein is not abnormal. He just is.
Looking at number fifty on the graph would probably be represented by what would be considered, by most, as "your average guy." He likes women and has never had a thought about being with a man sexually ever in his life.
Now, using this baseline I have established, all the rest of male human beings fall somewhere along the graph and we have seen or will see every one of them in the course of living our lives.
There is the happily married guy with children who is effeminate but sexually is straight. Then there are, indeed, quite macho, viral men who are gay but one would never fall under the suspicion of others. And, it’s no accident for the man who is observed and admired by others for his ability to "get in touch with his feminine side"? Often, while watching a person’s behavior through the lens of gender, it may be thought: "That guy acts exactly like my cousin, Larry. It’s uncanny!" Hey, we have a match! Put Larry and the other guy on the same scale number.
Does any of this make sense? I mean, it’s akin to sneering at the slow kid in the class and tell him he chose to be stupid.
Look, I’m not credentialed in any science nor am I qualified to write about this topic other than being able to present my opinion as an observer of human behavior.
Sure, it may be a legitimate exercise to "pigeon hole" or "catagorize" one’s sexual proclivities or true gender on a graph without being accused of "sexual profiling" any more than graphing one’s intelligence on an IQ gradient. If your IQ is 120 then it is what it is and no one castigates the designers of the testing procedures. Over time, the procedures have been bench tested, honed and demonstrated to provide consistent results.
So, if we look at people that are different from others or ourselves and think them to be abnormal then we really are being silly at the very least. Silly, yes, because all of this time, throughout history and for as long as man has been looking and comparing himself to other men, we have never before looked at our gender classification in such a simplistic way. We are who we are and that’s it. All human beings just happen to occupy a different position on the one to one-hundred scale, or, one to a million if gender ID can be parsed that many times. What has completely confused the entire issue is mixing the biological truth with religious and societal taboos.
I’ll end here. I’ve already gone too far into my hypothesis.
Any thoughts?
Thank God for Michael Savage. He is one of the few people in the media who has the guts to speak the truth. If you think about, you'll realize he is right about this.
Okay - I'll try.
Nope - didn't work. I thought about much longer and much moe thouroughly than Savage has and still know that he's not only wrong but he's clearly nothing to thank God for.
Did you actually put the words THINK and Weiner in the same post? It caused me a cognitive dissonance that disrupted my ability to read for a second. Weinerdog is an insane hatemonger and bigot. The TRUTH is a foriegn language to him. Bigotry, hatefilled screeds, insanity THOSE are his native tongues
While is response is late, after reading Savage's savage outburst, I felt it neccessary to respond. While he says he does not advocate 'doing any harm' to these "freaks," he does deny them their humanity, denies their innocence of circumstance and his own acceptance his duty to be his brother's keeper. This is a sad and angry man.
Transgendered people do not create themselves. They are the offspring of heterosexual unions. That their psychological hardwiring and physical manifestation fail to properly align is not their fault. So they don't have to be any more thankful for being able to walk around than Mr. Savage.
Mr. Savage should be careful in using that label, 'psycopath,' because based on his own violent tirade, he shows more proclivity to that characterization than the victimized transgendered woman. Just how are transgendered people better, or did he mean, better off, than everyone else?
Reminds me of the line from Shakespeare, "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much!"
Apparently there was series of assaults on transgendered people taking place. I hope the assailant(s) were apprehended. My condolences to the survirors, their friends and families.
Mr. Savage needs to get help to overcome his homophoia. Perhaps there is some early sexual trauma in his own young life that needs to be dealt with. Something is not right in that brain!
His world is not rightside up and its all because of these freaky people, as he would charaacterize them. It's not his fault, but theirs for not taking responsibility for their own lives. Wait a minute! Isn't that what the neo-conservatives and the GOP are saying about those lazy Blacks, welfare Hispanics, marriage destroying gays, union-supporting working poor, lazy teachers, slackard students, pinko-liberal democrats and socially active clergy? Gee, how'd he paint himself into that corner?
Savage is a throwback/traditionalist. The basis of thinking here is you work hard or you go hungry...nobody has a responsibility to care for you when you are down and down but yourself. This is a good way of living because it keeps everyone on the same playing board of hard work and reward. The problem he sees with special interest groups of today, like the gays and transgendered, is that they are becoming more important to appease than is the average white middle class American male. Savage is justified in becoming angry when some people are more equal than others, anyone is justified in their anger about this.
Ah, the poor, oppressed rich white men... they can't get married, they are frequent targets of religious bigotry, and here, one got killed just for being rich and white.
Wait a minute...
You and Dr. Weiner are pseudo-intellectuals who know nothing of economics or of how society functions.
Let me guess, I'm willing to bet that the only kind of Darwinism you approve of is social Darwinism. Where everyone looks out for his own interests, and those who can't, well, that's their business.
Let me make another guess. I'll bet you're a self-professed Christian. Can you guess what gave it away? Your lack of empathy, your lack of compassion, your bloodlust and your willingness to ignore those most in need of societies protections.
You've spent most of the day and night defending hatred and murder and dreaming about how much fun it would be for you to kill another human being. In fact you implied that if you were a soldier in Iraq who had to take a life, you'd be so proud of yourself that you would go home and brag about it to everyone in town.
If every anyone was in need of spiritual counseling, it's you. Your ideas of being a warrior, a human being and a Christian are completely twisted around.
"Let me guess, I'm willing to bet that the only kind of Darwinism you approve of is social Darwinism. Where everyone looks out for his own interests, and those who can't, well, that's their business." -- Yes, to a degree. We are all interdependent to a certain extent, but I feel a line needs to be drawn somewhere. I'm not exactly sure where it is, but I know it is before my tax dollars are forcibly taken out of my income to hand out to the bums on welfare. This is where charity and goodwill come in, which I will get to...
"I'll bet you're a self-professed Christian. Can you guess what gave it away? Your lack of empathy, your lack of compassion, your bloodlust and your willingness to ignore those most in need of societies protections." -- As a christian, I donate time and money to charitable causes and people in need. It is more beneficial to run a food drive for those in need than to provide tax dollars to them in a welfare check. It is more beneficial to go to mexico and build a house or church for the people than provide section 8 housing discounts for the lazy bums here. I volunteered at a health care center for the elderly for an entire year, 5 days a week...every afternoon. You assume that because I do not agree with politically correct and legally mandated forms of support for the needy and the bums I am a heartless person, which isn't true.
And as for wanting to kill terrorists, I pose a simple question: Do you want it to be us or them? Should Americans die at their hands and have our national security compromised, or should we eliminate those who would hurt us right in their own third world country where they breathe? I certainly hope you would choose the preservation of American life through whatever means necessary.
so if i define tax exempt religious groups as special interest groups, we are on the same page, right?
Really - how do you feel about those radicals who distribute loaves and fish to the poor? Seems fairly traditional to most people.
Cite some sources that have caught that on video or have seen it happen first hand for proof.
Huh? Why not start with questions that I don't think anyone has asked so far. Weinerrocks, Braid, etc. this is for you to answer
1. Why do the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association and others, consider Gender Identity Disorder to be a condition that can be treated mainly through gender re-assignment surgery. (Sex changes)? And not through therapy?
2. As males, you do realize that in a way you are half female, right? You carry male and female genetic code. Even women still carry genetic information from males. So why can't it be natural?
Take your time, but answer as best as you can please. And please don't launch into personal attacks or building strawmen. These are simple questions and if you are truly thinking and not just motivated by hate they should be easy.
My response to question #1: I believe treatment for the condition is a question of what do you treat...the brain or the body? If caught at an early on, treating the brain seems like the best option. Get the person to either accept their physical body or accept themselves as being transgendered. I quote this from the source link below: "Sex reassignment through surgery and hormonal therapy is an option, but severe problems may persist after this form of treatment." If you check out the link, take a look at the sources for the information...National Institutes of Health and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The fact that gender identity disorder falls into a manual of mental disorders helps justify a lot of the language that both Savage and I have used on this topic. Also in response to this first question, I would like to make a comparison to the big name organizations you cite (American Medical Association) as being a legitimate voice on gender identity disorder and an organization like the IPCC or a person like Al Gore being a legitimate voice on global warming. Although these organizations/people have a big influence in their respective communities, it does not mean that all the evidence/data and all the professionals in the field are on their side. I think this is a good comparison because both of these topics are somewhat products of modern times, and there is still a lot to be learned about them before definitive conclusions can be made. My Source: [link to psychologytoday.com]
My response to question #2: Yes, I realize that everyone is born as a female, and the sex of a baby is a matter of which chromosome ends up dominating. And yes, I'll agree that in scientific terms, gender identity issues can occur naturally. I aknowledged earlier that the mind and body of these people are on different pages, they didn't volunteer to have that happen...but that does not give them a free pass to be considered normal. Normal and Natural are two different entities...normal in this case being the vast majority of people being born and knowing what sex they are. The term "freak" is a harsh substitute for "not normal," but I'm answering your questions here, not talking about language. The next thought I have is: Why are these people falling into the LGBT basket? What rights or recognition do they think they deserve? If a person has a disorder of this nature, they need to go get it fixed in whatever way they see fit, and move on with life. Why must people outside the affected person's family have to know that the person had a sex change? More importantly, why is there a social push to have these people recognized as some kind of special interest group along with gays---there is no correlation between the two. By alinging themselves with the gay movement, I feel the transgendered hurt themselves by making themselves look like people with a sexual perversion. If someone gets their sex changed to be a man, and that same person likes women, that person is straight. I mean, if you are looking at this in medical/scientific terms, what do politics/civil rights even have to do with a medical condition that is diagnosed and treated? These people need to move on with life and stop asking society as a whole to recognize their personal issues. I hope you can see what I am getting at here with this and why it makes me angry to see transgendered people teaming up with the homosexual social agenda.
There are my answers, I don't think they included personal attacks on anyone. Feel free to respond, but I am most interested in hearing what you have to say about the social movement of the transgendered being bundled up with the gay movement.
I believe treatment for the condition is a question of what do you treat...the brain or the body? If caught at an early on, treating the brain seems like the best option. Get the person to either accept their physical body or accept themselves as being transgendered. That's nowhere near as easy as you make it sound. For one thing, transsexuals have an abnormal hypothalamus - a part of the brain that's markedly larger in men than women (if I remember correctly). It's kind of difficult to treat something like that... being in the base of the brain and all. Plus, there are instances of boys with very small penises being surgically altered at birth into girls for cosmetic reasons, who then grow up and don't function as girls well at all, often reverting back to their birth genders.
As for your answer to #2 - Why are you splitting hairs over such terms as "normal" or "natural"? Those words are just used to smear people who are "different". Give a strict definition before you use them, or not at all. And who is pushing for special treatment of transsexuals (or gays, for that matter)? And maybe they've formed one community because, oh I don't know... they're both shunned for things they do to themselves and other consenting adults? You sound paranoid about some kind of vast, queer conspiracy.
#1 - It wasn't my intention to make it sound easy. It was my summarized conclusion after reading from a few sources. Go have the surgery if necessary, but I was just making a point that surgery is not the only possible solution in every case.
#2 - I was not splitting hairs. I was asked why gender identity disorder can't be considered natural. I conceded to the fact that it is natural. I gave a general definition of normal as it applies to the relation of the transgendered and the rest of society.
Finally, I'm really looking for clarification on what rights transgendered people are looking to attain that they do not already have. So they got surgery and now they are a full blown male/female...whatever body fits the brain, now they have peace of mind...what rights are they trying to gain by associating with the gay rights movement? Gays are fighting for the right to be married lawfully, what are the transgendered fighting for? I got my wisdom teeth pulled, a surgical procedure, now I have peace of mind that I dont have weak useless teeth in my head...why would I pursue anything having to do with my experience any further?
To boil all of Braid's posts down to their essence: "All surgery is OK unless it touches the penis. Then it's freakish"
#1 - It wasn't my intention to make it sound easy. It was my summarized conclusion after reading from a few sources. Go have the surgery if necessary, but I was just making a point that surgery is not the only possible solution in every case. Well, you made it sound like the most regrettable option, which sounds pretty arrogant to me, especially since you've got the mainstream science against you (and I'm not clicking your links - the last one was a long rant about how gay marriage has ruined the European countries that legalized it).
I aknowledged earlier that the mind and body of these people are on different pages, they didn't volunteer to have that happen...but that does not give them a free pass to be considered normal. Normal and Natural are two different entities...normal in this case being the vast majority of people being born and knowing what sex they are. - You don't think this sounds just a teeny bit discriminating against the transgendered here? The whole "they aren't normal 'cuz they aren't like us" bit?
I got my wisdom teeth pulled, a surgical procedure, now I have peace of mind that I dont have weak useless teeth in my head...why would I pursue anything having to do with my experience any further? - Yeah, I remember the time I opened my mouth at a party, and these guys started calling me names because I had my wisdom teeth out. Then they proceeded to beat me, and I had to leave town because my secret was out, and I could no longer live as the normally-toothed person they thought I was.
The problem is, the transgendered can NEVER have peace of mind. Maybe there isn't a lot of legal discrimination against them, but they aren't accepted by mainstream society. That's denying them a civil right, if you ask me.
"#1 - It wasn't my intention to make it sound easy. It was my summarized conclusion after reading from a few sources. Go have the surgery if necessary, but I was just making a point that surgery is not the only possible solution in every case."
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Ther are many degrees of every human condition. This is reflected in the fact that the majority of transgender people don't get surgery. I can agree with you that it is necessary for some, but not all.
And if it's necessary for some - why denigrate them for it? How does that benefit anyone?
Good insightful post. That is the crux of the buiscut. Simpleminded people become confused when anything or anyone doesnt fit into one of their two boxes, one is black and one is white. THEY are the judges of where they fit. Confusion, even though it seems a natural state for them, gives them rage which they then spew out as bigotry and hatred for what confuses them by NOT fitting into the black box or the white box. Since the world fits largely into a huge grey area they spend a lot of time confused and enraged. This also causes them to do irrational things like take Micheal Weiner seriously
Okay just an update on your "source" material. Psychology Today has some issues with in the past with homosexuality and gender identity. (for example they advertised Dr. Joseph Nicholosi's book. And defended the desicssion to do so. But never noted that Nicholosi (who runs/founded the anti-gay group NARTH) has been removed from the APA, for missusing data/quotes, and for not following proper research methods. Nicholosi was than removed from the American Sociology Association for inproper research methods and altering data to fit his views.
And then they did a "review" of Robert Spitzer's research regarding re-orientation therapies. They missquoted him and presented his view as if he was saying it works (which he did not).)
So this journal does not have the best record of presenting the facts.
Also when you have time check out this Link, its about NARTH and the fun little article one of its members published. He said, "There is another way, or other ways, to look at the race issue in America," writes Gerald Schoenewolf, a member of NARTH's Science Advisory Committee. "Africa at the time of slavery was still primarily a jungle... Life there was savage ... and those brought to America, and other countries, were in many ways better off."
Also check out this Link. Its about the Human Biodiversity Institute (HBI). Sounds very liberal right? Wrong. They believe in eugenics, racial intelligence studies, racial purity, etc. Heck one of their people did a "paper" on how blacks are less intelligent than whites, reason? That penis size determines intelligence. That the larger it is the less intelligent you are and that because blacks have larger penises (according to his world view) they are less intelligent. These people are tied into the who view that transgender indivduals are "freaks."
As for the issue of Gender Identity Disorder:
The inclusion of Gender Identity Disorder is hotely debated. Most believe it should be removed, because it creates the preception that transgendered individuals are disordered. But it is left in the manual for a simple reason, without that diagnosis, insurance companies would not cover the surgery. :) Sounds silly right? But that's the reason.
As for your other questions, I will answer them in my next post.
This Schoenewolf guy seems like quite the character with some views that are pretty out there. I don't support the views, but I think it is wrong that some groups asked him to publicly apologize for what he said. I do not believe in hate speech, meaning, I don't believe such a thing exists. I believe offensive statements exist, and I believe the recipients of those statements can sometimes be hurt or offended. Too bad, suck it up and move on. People have thrown very offensive personal verbal attacks at me before; statements that some would label as hate speech. I tell them to go f*ck themselves, I dont ask for an apology. If the person is forced to give an apology over something, it's not going to be sincere anyway.
It's rather difficult to "suck it up and move on" when you've been tied to the back of a truck and dragged until you're dead.
It's also hard to "suck it up and move on" after you've been tied to a fence and beaten to death.
And it's not easy to ""suck it up and move on" when you've been murdered on the street like the poor soul who Dr. Weiner called a "psychopath and a freak".
If you've ever had to contend with those kind of "very offensive personal PHYSICAL attacks" then you'll know what the results of hate speech can be. Maybe then you'd admit that it exists.
Your idea of a nation where everyone fends for himself has one flaw. I don't see you as being one of the strong. I see you as weak and afraid.
You're quick to call someone a bum, or a freak or a dirt bag. But it's easy to talk.
You've stated how you would enjoy killing and bragging to others about doing it, yet, you haven't enlisted to fight.
Judging by the rather puny appearance of your typical College Republican, combined with the tasty amount of personal property they own, maybe their ideal Hobbesian anti-society could work to our advantage, Worrier. I believe you have weapons training, no?
Guilty as charged on the weapons training. But I'm sure Braids iPod is bigger than mine.
And I have been known to cry when people have thrown very offensive personal verbal attacks at me.
Thats because your brain and your emotions are on the same level as an 8 year old girl. You are a disgrace to the MEN who built this country.
But when your big and bad elected official, Murtha the Marine, publically breaks down in tears while addressing the congress, I can't blame you for following your leaders and role models.
Yeah i'm really all talk. I work a full time salaried job at over $45,000 while going to school full time. I guess I wouldn't be a survivor, I don't know anything about hard work. And I'm no meathead jock lurking around bars for fights, but i'm a sizable person. If you dont believe me because i'm just typing on the internet, fine. But I know its accurate.
I think the weak and puny college students you are referring to mostly reside in the liberal cesspools known at "art schools."
Actually if you were a meat-head jock hanging around bars looking for fights it would be more courageous than someone lurking around liberal websites starting fights.
And you'll find out later, hopefully, that the size of your salary and the size of your body is not nearly as important as the size of your heart.
No one can be sure that they're as tough and courageous as they'd like to be unless tested.
I hope for your sake that you never have to take the test. Because everyone who takes it, gets a failing grade. And it does stay on your permanent record.
I didn't mention you, now did I? It's not all about you, Braid.
Haha...yeah, i'm sure none of those comments were directed towards me. Actually, you are guilty of stereotying college republicans. I am offended and I think a court of law might consider that to be "hate speech" directed at a particular group.
What if I actually took that to court and got you convicted of a hate crime. Wouldn't that suck? Maybe then you would realize that its all a bunch of nonsense.
Whats next? You probably would tell me that if Savage dropped dead today you're massive open heart would go out to him and his family. My ass...you and everyone here would be jumping for joy while typing about how sincere you are about feeling bad for the man.
How can you say such a thing? We would not take pleasure in anyone's death . I think we'd prefer to win someone over to our side than to see that person dead.
You're complaining about college Republicans being stereotyped yet, from the beginning of this thread you've stereotyped; gays, the trans-gendered, transvestites, freaks, psychopaths, liberals, soldiers, veterans and every poster whose responded to you except for the fictional one.
Actually Rusty I have seen a College Republican's apartment.
(short version of the story, he was your typical Republican/conservative. "Straight" dating a tall blond girl and planning the wedding. Have you ever heard the term "Bottom"? Well lets just say he's still "straight", but he really likes......well can't post that here.)
But back to the topic, lots of cool expensive stuff.
And I'm trained in self defense and have used guns before (used to hunt, but got sick of cold and waiting for something to walk by). So can I join?
I knew better than to trust one of Braid's links... but thanks for doing my homework for me anyway, AnotherMcCain. ;)
Part 1
First before we begin read my response regarding Gender Identity Disorder and the issues involved. It’s less mental illness, more economic/political.
Also when you type a huge thing like that, try putting spaces in-between sentences/paragraphs. People will be more likely to read it, if it’s readable. “Why are these people falling into the LGBT basket? What rights or recognition do they think they deserve? If a person … fixed in whatever way they see fit, and move on with life.”Okay, this is fun :) Why in the LGBT “basket”? Simple, we are both communities that are attacked or put down due to gender issues. Also there are many transgender individuals who are homosexual.
This includes, those who because of their transgender issues, attempt homosexual relationships first. Believing, their feelings to actually mean that they are gay.
Also those who are still attracted to someone of the same sex as what they are to become. but these people would be considered “gay” (99.99% of gay bashers are not going to stop the attack and ask, “wait, are you gay or are you a man who used to be a woman and is still dating a man?” )
What rights do transgender people want? They want the right to legally change their official paperwork to reflect their sex. They want the right to marry, in some states (I believe, it’s been a while) transgender people are still considered their original sex and therefore can not marry, due to anti-gay marriage laws. There are a lot of other ones, those are just a couple off the top of my head.
“Why must people outside the affected person's family have to know that the person had a sex change?”(This also applies to the question: “why do gay people have to tell others” in part.) There are a lot of people in society who hate homosexuals and transsexuals. In the act of “coming out” and saying I’m gay (which I am), I am doing a number of things.
1. I am increasing knowledge that there are gay people out there. In the past laws went un-challenged, ignorance was rampant, because homosexuality was something you did not talk about. Very few people actually knew or talked to a real life “homophile” (that’s what we were called back then)
2. As above, by increasing knowledge of homosexuality, I also help young gay people. They now know there are others out there. (Not everyone has access to the internet and many conservative families place blocking software with the words, gay, lesbian, sex,)
3. For gay people coming out is important too for another reason. If I have to go to work and hear about how much of a jerk my female co-worker’s husbands are, I should be able to talk about the things my husband does.
4. Also for transgender people, there is a period before the surgery where they undergo therapy and are required (at least in my state and I believe elsewhere) to live as the other sex for a year. This allows the transgender person to understand what they are about to do, and according to one text, “prevent non-transsexuals from performing the surgery on a whim.” This period sort of “outs” the transgender person to the world. Also creates issues, like which bathroom to use? Etc.
Part 2
“More importantly, why is there a social push to have these people recognized as some kind of special interest group along with gays---there is no correlation between the two.”Actually there is, see above. There are gay transgender people.
“By alinging themselves with the gay movement, I feel the transgendered hurt themselves by making themselves look like people with a sexual perversion”.Now that is where I decided you are an idiot/a$$hole. In all honesty, I believe the real perverts are heterosexuals. You have the right to marriage and also a high divorce rate. You have insanely higher levels of child sex abuse, than homosexuals. Basically you name a sexual perversion, and all the statistics show heterosexuals lead the pack. I and most of my gay friends have been in relationships we don’t fight, don’t cheat, don’t do any of the perverted things we see heterosexual couples doing.
“If .. that person is straight. I mean, if you are looking at this in medical/scientific terms, what do politics/civil rights … diagnosed and treated?”Yes and someone who is bi-sexual and dating someone of the opposite sex is still bi-sexual. What’s your point? There are still transgender people who are considered gay.
Politics and civil rights have always had a lot to do with medical conditions. The ADA was political, was it not? Proper treatment of those in mental hospitals was a civil rights issue.
There currently is a alarming rise in the number and violence of attacks in the entire LGBT community. But it’s especially true in the transgender portion of that community. More and more these attacks are resulting in death. Maybe it’s a sense that if we don’t “stick together” or that if we are alone we are more vulnerable. Also historically, before Reassignment Surgery, the only option for people who are transgender was to cross dress and have sexual relations with men , therefore being considered gay or lesbian. Not that all cross dressers are transgender, there are plenty of heterosexual men who like to wear women’s clothing.
“These people need to move on with life a…. I hope you can see what I am getting at here with this and why it makes me angry to see trans people teaming up with the homosexual social agenda.”I see where you are coming from. So your one of those people who believes in the “gay agenda” right? What if I told you there was no such thing? Would you even believe me? Probably not
If you are a person who thinks they are a man, but has a woman's body...and your sexual preference is towards men (a "gay" transgender person, i guess)...thats not really gay...the person has a female body and is attracted to men, that qualifies you as a straight female. Why change your sex and be gay?
This is getting boring...the weekend is just about here and I am ready to go out and have some straight white male times that will include whiskey, budweiser, my girlfriend, a movie, and a concert. A real all-american weekend. Have fun crying and pretending that you and your gay mafia don't enjoy the same rights and freedoms as every other american citizen. Just remember - as long as its between two consenting adults, its legal and everyone should accept it.
See ya.
What, no gunplay?
oh, forgot...remember to use protection this weekend...we don't want any illegitimate kids running around...oh...wait...theres no possible way for gay to impregnate eachother. Well, get checked for diseases and HIV, and if you're clean have a wild raw-doggin time, because I support your civil right to do that.
Hopefully, you'll use your own good advice. We've got more red necked Savage fans than the planet can endure as it is, wouldn't want you reproducing, son.
Actually Braid, I'm married so I don't have sex anymore :)
BTW don't forget your condoms too, STD's are no laughing matter.
As for "no possible way" impregnating each other well the University of Toronto says your wrong (Surprise!).
A man can with surgery, carry a baby to term and sperm can be altered to become an egg. Or is that too "freakish" for you?
Why change your sex and be gay? - Why be gay when you can change your sex to be straight? Why can't you understand that you will never understand the transgendered? You were in the lucky majority to be born in the gender you wanted. Can't you just accept that there are motivations you can never understand?
Have fun crying and pretending that you and your gay mafia don't enjoy the same rights and freedoms as every other american citizen. - Except nobody ever got 8 million radio listeners saying straight white men were "psychopaths" and "freaks" with a "death style" that helped motivate terrorists against our nation.
Just remember - as long as its between two consenting adults, its legal and everyone should accept it - You're preaching to the choir here. Take that kind of talk to The Savage Weiner.
I was born a woman?
That statement wasn't directed at you, but if you wish you were born a woman, there are people you can see about that.
Who knows but you were clearly born a moron
Those organizations have a left wing, PC bias. You cure the disorder by getting it through the freak's head that he is a man (or that she is a woman) instead of lying to the person through mutilation (convincing a man that he's a woman simply by cutting off his genitals).
Who are you talking to? Maybe you should learn to use the "reply" feature.
I do press the reply button. However, that puts me behind everybody else who also responded to the post.
Why is everyone fixated on GLBT? Like Savage has said, they're the most unimportant members of society.
Don't you think that transgendered people are told all their lives (by loved ones and enemies alike) that they are their birth gender? If that's all it took, there would be no transgendered people at all.
Also one last comment/question
Do you know Braid, that in reality you were a little girl at one point? As a fetus you began to develop as a girl, at lest as far as your genitals. Than the right chemicals were thrown into the mix (to dumb it down for some posters on this forum) and you developed your male organs.
Why is it impossible for you to believe that at some point, someone like Kathy (I think that's your name, I'm sorry if I'm wrong) developed boy genitals, but her brain remained female in many ways?
Sorry, a correction here: " ... you do not glorify it."
The most regrettable option? There are 2 forms of treatment for the issue...mental treatment and physical. The physical pain and recovery process from surgery is regrettable. If you think I am making things sound too easy or regrettable, please enlighten me on other ways of treating this condition that are more acceptable to you.
You quoted my reasonable definition of normal in this particular case. If you disagree with it, provide your definition of normal. While your at it, please define natural and freak as well. It's not quite fair to call my definitions discriminating when you don't offer up your own.
I assume this is a response directed at me.
When I say you make things sound too easy, it is because I don't get the feeling you really understand how badly the desire to change your gender can be. Transgendered people attempting to live as their birth genders are often driven to suicide. Those who opt for the change have to go through hell to get it, and then keep it up, not to mention how one's family may react, or the constant fear of being "outed". This isn't like how some children get over-medicated for whatever little problem they have. This isn't done on a whim. If your personal opinion is that the transition isn't the best idea, that's fine, but there are a legion of people who have done it, or are in the process of doing it, that would disagree.
And I have a problem with the words "normal" and "natural". I won't define them, because I'm not using them to support my argument. They are loaded words which mean a lot more than they seem to. "That's not natural" and "You're not normal" are very serious phrases, but what do they really MEAN? How is recreational sex between a man and a woman "natural" in a way sex between two women is not? How is a man cheating on his wife normal when gay marriage isn't?
So lay off the loaded words. As for the definition of "freak", you're kidding me, right?
WOW! I'm sorry the republicans are right. Our education system is broken.
Oh thanks for the personal attack Braid. BTW I hope you don't get an STD too. Have a great time.
But can I make a suggestion? Instead of drinking too much, maybe go to your college's library and check out a book (or two). Then spend the weekend reading.
I'm chuckling here. I love this assertion that someone could have inner gay tendencies because of where they live. Forget that he was born in NYC, and forget that his radio career is based in San Fran. My cousin moved from Chicago to Arkansas because of a highly profitable job offer. That must mean he has some inner voice that tells him he wants to be a white trash hillbilly. Maybe some therapy or medication could cure him of this mental problem of living where he can be successful.
This is complete and total nonsense.
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OK - then why did he use a naked picture of himself with one of the most famous gay men in the world at that time (beat poet Alan Ginsberga) a calling card?
"Savage once posed naked in a photograph with Ginsberg while swimming in Hawaii and used the photograph as sort of a "calling card."
David Gilson, "Michael Savage's long, strange trip", Salon.com, March 5, 2003.
Ron Russell, " Inside the Savage Nation", SF Weekly, July 19, 2006.
Is that the kind of thing you plan to do on your manly man weekend? Would you show naked photos of yourself and say Barney Frank as your calling vard if you had them taken?
Update: This person has now been identified.
" Oakland Tribune, CA, USANEW: Hundreds gather for slain transgendered womanBy Kory Tran, CorrespondentArticle Last Updated: 03/23/2007 10:10:29 PM PDTSAN FRANCISCO — A crowd of almost 200 people gathered in SanFrancisco Friday evening to mourn the death of Ruby Rodriguez, a 24year-old transgendered woman who was murdered on March 16.People held signs, roses and candles as Rodriguez's friends andfamily, members of the transgendered community and community leadersspoke of her life and their outrage at the brutal murder, which hasnot yet been solved."
Funny how none of the "manly men" here or that Sad Sack of Sh#t Savage was "man enough" to say their hateful words about a murder victim in person. Please - go tell her brother and friends in person what you've said on the air.
Savage is an effin wuss.
If I didnt live more than 1500 miles away, i would have loved to go and held up a sign that said "Murder is bad, changing your sex is worse."
But if I did that the freak mafia would have arrested me, sued me, and put me in jail for expressing my opinion in public.