Citing more sex-change operations, increased lesbian fertility clinics, Savage said of 9-11: "That was God speaking"
On the March 27 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage complained that Americans currently live in "post-Christian times" in which "[t]he churches are emptying out, the bathhouses are filling up, the sex-change operations are speeding up, the lesbian fertility clinics are increasing around the country." Savage went on to argue that God "orchestrated the rise of radical Islam" in order to counter the "spiritual collapse of the West." He continued: "It's becoming increasingly clear to me that God wants radical Islam on this planet at this time -- that it's not actually the scourge you think it is." He further claimed that God wants to show "you boys in Hollywood and you girls in New York City" that he does "exist" through acts of catastrophe like the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001: "Down came the World Trade Centers. That was God speaking."
Rev. Jerry Falwell made a similar statement on September 13, 2001, saying that abortion rights advocates, feminists, and homosexuals, among others, were responsible for the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Savage's comments also echo the rhetoric of Rev. Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, which operates the website GodHatesFags.com and whose members have protested the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq because, the website asserts, the soldiers "voluntarily joined a fag-infested army to fight for a fag-run country now utterly and finally forsaken by God who Himself is fighting against that country."
From the frequently asked questions section of GodHatesFags.com:
Why do you fly the American flag upside down?
An upside down flag is the international sign for distress. This country, as well as the rest of the world, is in mortal danger -- we're in distress. Our national support of perversity is bringing God's wrath upon us. September 11 was only the beginning. We have reached the point of no return. It is too late for this evil country to repent (2 Chronicles 36:16, 2 Kings 23:26). God's people must save themselves from this perverse generation (Acts 2:40).
In the same March 27 broadcast, Savage stated that radical Muslims "don't like the stuff that I don't like, frankly. The very same things that offend me, offend them. That's the strangest part of it." He then explained that both he and radical Muslims are offended by transgendered people; in particular the former city manager of Largo, Florida, who was recently fired after announcing his plans to undergo sexual reassignment surgery. Savage said: "As they do offend -- for example, the city manager cutting his schmekel off to become a woman. To me it's disgusting; the doctor should be arrested, their licenses taken away, they should be given 10 years in prison for what they're doing to these poor mental cases. I mean these head cases who suddenly say, 'Oh, I want to be a woman, all my life, there was a woman within --' this is a mass psychosis that's going on now in America." As Media Matters for America has noted, on the March 23 broadcast of his show, Savage blamed sexual reassignment surgery for the Columbine massacre. On the March 22 broadcast of his show, Savage claimed that "most" of the Islamic extremists "listen to this show and love me."
As Media Matters has documented (here, here, and here), Savage has a history of hateful attacks on gays and lesbians. He has repeatedly referred to "the homosexual mafia," claimed that "the homosexual dance of death" is the "seminal issue of our time," and compared gays to "drug addicts." As Media Matters has also noted, Savage was signed by Hollywood's Creative Artists Agency (CAA) for "representation in all areas" -- including television and film -- but was reportedly dropped by the agency after he attacked singer and CAA client Melissa Etheridge for thanking her wife during her Academy Awards acceptance speech.
The Savage Nation reaches more than 8 million listeners each week, according to Talkers Magazine, making it the third-most-listened-to talk radio show in the nation, behind only The Rush Limbaugh Show and The Sean Hannity Show.
From the March 27 broadcast of Talk Radio Network's The Savage Nation:
SAVAGE: So the country is founded on the principles of Christianity. A couple of hundred years later, where are we living? So-called post-Christian times. The churches are emptying out, the bathhouses are filling up, the sex-change operations are speeding up, the lesbian fertility clinics are increasing around the country. And the country is on the verge of an insane breakdown.
And enter this picture, entering this picture are devout Muslims, not only in America but around the world, many of whom, most of whom today are not fanatic, by the way. I have no doubt they would become fanatic if they smelled a chance to get away with it. I'll put that in context another time. If they could, they would impose their religion on everybody else, because that's a tenet of their religion. It is a fundamental tenet of Islam to convert everybody around them whether they want it or not. OK? But right now everyone is acting, you know, like good Americans. They're just minding their own business, the majority of them. And the others are watching over their shoulder for the FBI and the other intelligence agencies, as they should, because the FBI is doing a darn good job of keeping them in line, to be very frank. You know, just lay it on the line. They're keeping the would-be bombers on their toes, let's put it to you that way. All right? And that's good.
Now, you come to a point where the spiritual vacuum has emerged in the United States of America. Enter the vacuum are very religious Muslims. They don't like the stuff that I don't like, frankly. The very same things that offend me, offend them. That's the strangest part of it. As they do offend -- for example, the city manager cutting his schmekel off to become a woman. To me it's disgusting; the doctor should be arrested, their licenses taken away, they should be given 10 years in prison for what they're doing to these poor mental cases. I mean these head cases who suddenly say, "Oh, I want to be a woman, all my life, there was a woman within --" this is a mass psychosis that's going on now in America: "Oh, God, you're so wonderful, Steve, for becoming Clara. Oh, you're such an advanced, progressive human being. Isn't that wonderful."
[...]
SAVAGE: Enter the vacuum, comes the fanatically religious Muslim who doesn't go along with the gay and lesbian propaganda, doesn't go along with the sex-change operations, doesn't go along with the slew of the very social degeneracy that we are all struggling to, let's say, live with without accepting. Because there's a huge chasm between living with something, and accepting it. But, you see, the other side not only wants you to live with what they do, they want you to not only accept what they do; they want you to celebrate what they do. They want you to mainstream what they do.
And what they're gonna get in return is the very opposite of what they think they're gonna get, by pushing too hard. But that's a separate story for another time -- few years down the line, you know. Well, a few years down the line, we'll have this discussion again. So, as I say to go back to my primary point, and forgive me for rambling here in this kind of filibuster-y kind of manner: God abhors a spiritual vacuum. That is why he has permitted, in fact probably not only permitted, but in a way orchestrated the rise of radical Islam.
[...]
SAVAGE: It's becoming increasingly clear to me that God wants radical Islam on this planet at this time -- that it's not actually the scourge you think it is. What it is -- it's a counterpoint to the Romanization of the United States of America and the West. The collapse -- the spiritual collapse of the West, the death of the West in that regard, is being countered by the birth of fanatic religion, which is fundamentally a fanatic love of God, when you think about it.
[...]
SAVAGE: And God, who is the center of this monotheistic religion, has said, "Oh, you don't worship me anymore? Oh, you don't like me anymore? Oh, I don't exist anymore? Really? All right, I'm going to show you boys in Hollywood and you girls in New York City that I do exist. But since you're very hard-headed, stiff-necked people, and you don't really believe that I exist because you've gotten away with everything you've done all your life without any repercussions, I'm going to show you I exist in a way that you can't believe." Down came the World Trade Center towers. That was God speaking.
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Yikes. Sounds like the FBI ought to be watching old Mikey here after this little tirade.
Didn't we go though this with Pat Robertson back in early 2002......
These right-wing idealogs seem to have as much compassion as Hitler did.......
OMFG Weiner, we get it already! You want a sex change, fine. Why not just come out and say it? It appears you want it so badly since you can't stop talking about it.
Okay:
So now Weiner boy is saying 9-11 was a good thing? That instead of hunting bin ladden, we should be sending him flowers or something? How do you say "complete mental breakdown" in Arabic?
"How do you say "complete mental breakdown" in Arabic?"
Michael Savage...
OMFG Weiner, we get it already! You want a sex change, fine. Why not just come out and say it? It appears you want it so badly since you can't stop talking about it.
===================================
In the words of Bill the Cat -Ack!!! Sorry - you non-transgender people will have to keep him. Don't we have enough to shoulder without adding that that sack of pus?
Sigh - allright - we'll see Bertha gets the help she needs when next we see her at support group meeting.
And I promise we'll do everything we can to help her family - Lord knows they've had too damn many burdens placed upon them already.
Though - I still say - with him handing out all those naked photos of him & Alan Ginsgerg - he's really gay on the inside - pus on the outside.
Need I remind you, Kathy. As self-chosen representative of all of earth's gay population, NO THANK YOU!
The gender-boring heterosexuals can keep Weiner.
Savage belongs to white people whether they be heterosexual, homosexual or cross dressers.
He does? I'm gonna make him wash my car.
Oh, and something else. He says that transgendered folks are responsible for this, or at least partially responsible for the rise of radical Islam and all. Is there some sort of mass sex change operation thing going on that we're not all aware of? I mean, are sex change operations so common that they're handing them out on every corner of Main Street USA? Or is this sort of like when conservatives talk about flag burning as if it's happening in every neighborhood in the US of A.
Savage needs help, good solid mental health help, and he might come out of this OK. I doubt it, but maybe.
Maybe he's worried about flag-burning transgendered people. Happens all the time in Weinerville.
Actually Magnolialover, the other day, two of my classmates became women. Then as I got off the bus a guy in a trench coat offered to operate on me in the alley (I turned him down).
But I hear its really popular in the high schools, I think they call it transing. All the kids are doing it. Its now more popular than drinking and teen sex (at least with the popular kids).
We are Legion.
Ask the tranny on the beat, ask the tranny on the street corner, ask the tranny who's knock, knock, knocking on your back door.
You thought the Protocols of the Elders of Zion revealed the true story? A mere smokescreen. The Protocols of Priscilla reveal who really runs this world.
Kathy
Nice Firesign Theatre reference.
Good post.
"...the country is on the verge of an insane breakdown."
Ummm, no Mr. Savage, YOU ARE.
WEINER: GOD ON RADICAL MUSLIMS' SIDE
Developing...
If God is using the radical muslims to achieve his ends...and we're trying to kill the radical muslims...
What's the usual penalty for defiance of God?
An eternity of listening to Weiner rant about the gay mafia while he gives you coffee enemas
That was so frightening I almost abandoned Atheism.
Thank God you resisted
Well if you ever want to abandon Atheism, try Agnosticsm. It's almost like Atheism, except you just say that there is not enough information to truly support any one god or religion, or to believe there's a God. It's basically a less extreme form of Atheism. And, you can embrace any aspect of any religion.
Actually, your definition of agnosticism is actually atheism. Richard Dawkins wrote an excellent chapter on this in the sublime "The God Delusion".
I wonder - was it internalized homophobia or his repressed transgender nature that made him change his name from weiner? He's obviously got issues with them either way.
I never thought of that, Kathy. He's already symbolically detached a Weiner from himself.He's just not "man" enough to let go of the flesh and blood one.
I am sorry, but I am so sick of Michael Savage. The man can not be taken seriously.
"It's becoming increasingly clear to me that God wants radical Islam on this planet at this time -- that it's not actually the scourge you think it is."
Ho. Lee. Crap.
I will now be arranging a steel-cage death match shout-off between Savage and Pat Robertson. Check it out on pay-per-view.
I swear, the man is going to end up in a bell tower somewhere soon. Watch for the implosion coming hopefully not to a town near you. I am hoping he gets busted in some gay bar somewhere in San Francisco and gets outed, not that this would be a good thing for the gay community at large, but would expose him for what he is. A closeted self loather.
It's finally happened! Michael "Savage" Weiner has come out as a terrorist sympathizer!
Borders, language, culture my butt. This is the nail in the coffin for all his supporters here, I'm sure of it. Nevertheless, I eagerly await any and all rationalizations of this insanity.
No he carried on recently in a similar vein. Is he trying out a new subtheme?
I have to admit that Savage makes no sense on this issue. He better clarify his position.
Don't make me LOL. The only time he's ever brought up something he's already said, he either reiterates his same points, or says he stands by what he said.
Then again, maybe hell will freeze over.
Weiner hates sexual deviance from the norm so much that he is suggesting that terrorist attacks on innocent men, women, and families on US soil are not only deserved, but welcome.
What's confusing about this? It's been pointed out to you multiple times that this guy is not only full of hate, but is anti-American and not right in the head. NOW he's pushed a button you can't laugh at? Please.
This is the nail in the coffin for all his supporters here, I'm sure of it.( iflurry8094)
Wanna bet? I have a hard time visualizing a Weinerite saying "Hey, that's a little crazy !".
True, I went out on a limb there.
But did you catch WeinerforPresident's post up there? I've been particularly interested in Weiner as of late, and his supporters here are usually a bit apologetic when he gets especially crazy. Still, I'm somewhat surprised that WienerforPrez agrees with most of us here.
the romanization of america. Another lame attempt by the right wing to rewrite the history of the fall of the roman empire.
We've had a number of Savage defenders who love to talk tough about killing terrorists, but Savage's recent tirades have flipped 180 degress vis-a-vis Islamist terrorists. Now they are doing God's work. It'll be interesting to see how much of his audience goes along for the ride.
The man's good at what he does. He's entertaining.
My bunghole is good at what it does, too. Give it eight million dollars.
But is it entertaining?
Don't answer that.
It does the same thing Weiner does.
Another blame America first right-winger. Hey Savage why dont you leave if you dont like the country. Sarcasm aside could this man possibly more of a self-loather. Mike get over it and just embrace the fact that you are a woman in a man's body.
I don't know who sounds nuttier, Savage or Rosie O'Donnell.
Talk about hating America!
Heard she had another meltdown today on The View.
Perhaps she should leave the country along with Savage?
Bad Jeter you're off topic bringing up Rosie The Liberal, yeah it's a dirty job but, well ya know ;-)
It's Friday.
So who did O'Donnell blame 9/11 on, the heteros?
Come on Jeter, I find it hard to believe that anything Rosie said can compare to this. What's the connection between her and Savage, outside of them both being women trapped in men's bodies?
I understand Rosie O'Donnell has stated that she thinks 9-11 was at least partially an inside job, which is not exactly a consensus opinion. Is that what you are referring to, Jeter? I am unaware of her saying or implying that she "hates America" but I'm willing to be convinced by a quote from a reputable source.
Yes, that's an extremely serious charge to make. At this point I almost wouldn't be surprised but I would have to ask what she's basing it on. Some people have said the towers couldn't collapse from just the collision and fire, but I don't think that's been established very well. At the very least she should say what makes her think that, or it's horribly irresponsible.
Watch 'Terrorstorm' on dvd... there are people coming up here tonight to talk about that exact issue (WTC #7) at the local university, complete with physics professors...
If you had to defend a low-life like Weiner, you'd be playing for a tie too.
Jeter,I never was much of a view watcher anyway, but I never watch it now since Rosie joined the crew. Rosie is an obnoxious loud mouth and a bully. I actually feel sorry for the little conservative girl on the show. I wish she could be put away with Savage somewhere and boy would the sparks fly. They could shout each other to death.
If Savage beats Robertson in that steel-cage death match, I'll pit him against Rosie next. I promise.
We all realize you're a filthy little troll; there's no need to keep proving it.
No very good Jeter towards demonstrating a good example of the lack of nuance that conservative commentary seems to require. Comparing Savage to Rosie (both annoying) is like comparing Frank Sinatra to Sanjaya Malakar on Amercian Idol (both singers).
Weiner = Dobson = Robertson = Falwell = Wildmon = Phelps
All of a single mind, all of a single brain cell, all deserving of obscurity and ignoble death.
Deserving of death? Who the heck do you think you are?!?
He didn't say they deserve to be killed; only that their deaths be ignoble.
Why ignoble? Does he not like Mike?
Who doesn't like Mike?
God as the paragon of authoritarian stlye of leadership.... KILL THEM ALL AND LET ME SORT THEM OUT!!
I don't get it. If God was so against transgenders, gays, and lesbians and so on, wouldn't he order the Mulims to just kill them? I mean when someone commits murder we as a society just don't go kill someone else. We go after the murderer. You'd think God could give better directions to Muslim fanatics.
Actually, if God had been more on the ball and had Muslims kill everyone who was into Rock and Roll in the 50s and the Beatles in the 60s, all this turmoil could have been avoided.
We'd just have some other termoil. Killing all the 50's rock and roll entertainers and fans would at least leave a large hole in the population. All blacks would have been killed on suspician of having a musical soul.Can you say totalitarian state. They'd need a certain amount of termoil to maintain the holy regime.
"Our national support of perversity is bringing God's wrath upon us."
Okay, troglodytes, let me get this straight. After centuries of killing each other, burning innocent people for witchcraft, enslaving and murdering each other ...God finally gets pissed off because we've decided not to persecute gay people any more?
Are we supposed to believe that God is that stupid?
Better late than never.
What does God consider "late"? I mean, speaking eternally and all...
GOD: Waaaaaaahhh!!! People don't believe in me!! (sniffle sniffle)... I will have to HURT them, those meanies!! Yeah, I'll show them... I'll show them GOOD! Gonna smite some people here, curse those over there... THAT'LL show them!! Thank you, *mr.* savage for telling me what god is thinking... I wasn't too sure but NOW I get it...
I heard Richard Dawkins interviewed on NPR, and he raised an interesting point...why would God create a world in which all the scientific evidence points to His non-existence?
Who knows, maybe we'll find a big rock someday where He signed it "God — 4000 B.C."
That's easy, because He's testing people's faith. Organized religion covered that ground ages ago. Only those who believe what the Church tells them to be true are faithful enough to enter God's Kingdom.
Well we know God buried all those dinosaur fossils to test our faith.
What evidence points to there being no God? Now I didn't ask, "What evidence contradicts the Bible?" I'm simply asking what evidence points to there being no creator.
"what evidence points to there being no creator."
God, if you are all-powerful, omniscient and omnipresent, please post immediately after me and prove your existence. Word will get out, we'll all do what you say, and the world will be perfect.
Humans have been waiting for thousands of years and all you need to do is show up and say "hi".This is your last chance.
Dude! Why you gotta call me out like that? I thought you was my dawg!
That was classic!
Dammit, God! You must be for real, as we mere mortals are subject to a waiting period before our first post goes up. I've got some repenting to do now.
It's more that the evidence DOESN'T point to a creator. True, from a scientific standpoint, the more questions we answer the more questions we generate, and our knowledge is still terribly limited, but the more we understand about our world, the less the supernatural fits into it.
You do realize you're asking people to prove a negative, don't you? What evidence is there that there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Marinara sauce is the new wine served at church... And pirates DO have a strangle hold on the truth...
Personally I beleive in God, however like DL Hugely says I just dont believe everyone who SAYS they are working for him really are.
Considering that the Universe itself shows absolutely NO "intelligent design", how does an old Hebrew war god fit into it? People been following that intolerant and bigoted old god Yahweh for millenia...and all he gives is war, death, and misery. As for me, I am a preist of Freya, a servant of the Goddess and of her Sisters. Her commandment is love, not hatred and murder. Eglo Freya, Bereth o Hirilered.
In all fairness, the God of Abraham has thrown this tantrum before, and flooded a great deal of mesopotamia in the process.
Allegedly.
God of Wrath, n' all.
Michael Weiner must not have included abortion clinics in his ringing endorsement of Al Qaeda, because his mother considered going to one of the clinics.
Forget Al Qaeda, I prefer Al Bundy.
I can imagine the Savage Weiner in the afterlife.
"I don't get it. Why am I shackled and boiling in a lake of eternal fire? I hated and publicly demonized all the right people. What gives???"
Methinks yopu need to "imagine" a little harder.
You're right, the real Weiner doesn't even sound half as coherent as Pete makes him sound.
"Down came the World Trade Center towers. That was God speaking."
And all this time I thought two jetliners knocked the towers down. Gee whiz...God flooded the whole world once...has he become feeble in His old age? If He wanted to send a clear message, why not level the Rocky Mountains, or sink Manhattan into the sea? Savage must have a low opinion of the Creator of the Universe.
If God is infallible and all-seeing, then he must have seen the results of his actions. He uses radical muslims to kill us, and wants them to exist. Then he tells Bush to kill the radical muslims.
Either this a)proves Savage is insane (or an act), b)proves Bush is insane (or a liar who invokes God for his own purposes) or c)proves God is insane (or does not exist, at least in the way we're told he does).
d) God is a defense contractor.
If God were infallable and all-seeing, that whole Garden of Eden scandal would never have happened. What did God know, and when did He know it?
I could play Devil's Advocate here (hah!) and say that just because God knew it would happen didn't mean that it wasn't man's fault, and that the progression of events had to happen whether or not God had any foreknowledge.
But then God is so "hands-off" that it shoots Weiner's point to hell.
That's it nerzog, time for congress to start hearings on God. Or even better, since it was God's fault, Bush can invade a new country to bring him to justice.
I will pay for Mike's ticket to Saudi Arabia.
Thanks for posting this.
Without Media Matters for America, I would probably not have heard about this.
I think this guy has to be satirist and this can't be real. most of what he says is so "omfg" you know, i think this has tobe some long to be some long experiment to see who buys it and who doesn't
Regarding this MMFA article specifically, this line of thought is in keeping with other GOP inspired "conservatives" as well, such as Dinesh D'Souza. That guy, D'Souza, needs to have his head examined for promulgating such 'blame the victim' excuses. It's one thing for a native born White guy like Savage to do so, but pretty dopey for a guy who could pass for Arabic fairly easily.
Oh No! It’s a mass psychosis!
Now I can’t go shopping
So, radical muslims are here to kill us - they were just practicing on the Jews, I guess...God must also have sent Hitler to kill the Jews/Gypsies...The Turks to kill the Armenians...The Hutus to kill the Tutsis, etc, ...Yes, this really does explain it all. A vengeful God gets his point across much better than a forgiving God. Thank you Mr Weener.
If God proves Mr. Savage wrong, will God be called vermin? Maybe God is a transgender and is playing with us...Oh that God, what a character.
Hey!
Where are the usual young wiener lovers? None of them have shown up to defend him... to pay him lip service, so to speak... or at least to assure us that he was just joking & that we don't have a sense of humor. I mean, did they ALL get detention today?
Its just not the same without them.
I miss the Wiener Wingnut Brigade.
Maybe they all got banned. Wouldn't want any sanity in here now would we?
So, you're saying that the posters here who usually support Michael "Transsexuals caused 9/11" Weiner are the SANE ones?
Sounds like you need a new shoe, 'cuz you just shot yourself in the foot.
There is plently of sanity here. Even in a Weinerdog thread which deals directly with a sanity challenged Weiner. What you wingnuts bring is stupidity and ignorace. We can take it or leave it.
This is the kind of post I love, SOLON. You claim some kind of "sanity" on your side by using insults and name-calling! And you say Mike is a hypocrite. This is too easy. I could care less if you hate Savage's guts, but you and your ilk are a bunch of wannabees.
Calling someone stupid is not the same as saying that they were responsible for killing 3000 innocents. Got it? Good.
Are YOU pretending that YOU telling us we arent sane ISNT an insult or are you doing the usual crybaby conservative twostep. WAAAAAHHHHHH how dare you insult me. I am a conservative, I have the God given right to insult you liberals without being insulted back. WWAAAHHHH, keep making a fool out of yourself by insulting us then snivelling like a little girl we insult you back. And when did I call Weiner a hypocrite? I called him insane. I think the verdict is in. Look up strawman in the yellow pages I think you are listed as a major builder.
I really enjoy ( and sometimes shudder) at the total lack of understanding of the Bible, God and Jesus by right wing pundits that in some sort of delusional realm believe that they have the answers to everything. Obviously Wiener boy missed the part of the new convenant in Jesus about the God of love. These goofs talk as though they have brilliant insights on religion when i doubt any of them have really read any theology texts. People like this give Christians a bad name.
Actually Jesus said that he came not to destroy the old covenant but to fulfill it. Jesus said not to change even a jot of God's law. (Remember also that Jesus and God are the same person. Many liberals seem to treat God the Father and Jesus as two different people.)
Secondly, even though the Christian God is a god of love, he still sends people to hell. Jesus (God incarnate) preached about hell. I think that it's silly to have the ultra-liberal viewpoint that God forgives everybody. He doesn't.
Actually Jesus said that he came not to destroy the old covenant but to fulfill it. Jesus said not to change even a jot of God's law. - Not to start a theological debate, but Jesus also stopped a stoning, said that what you eat does not defile you, and worked on the Sabbath.
(Remember also that Jesus and God are the same person. Many liberals seem to treat God the Father and Jesus as two different people.) - Again, a theological debating point (unless you refer to a specific doctrine that's not shared by, say, Jews).
Secondly, even though the Christian God is a god of love, he still sends people to hell. Jesus (God incarnate) preached about hell. I think that it's silly to have the ultra-liberal viewpoint that God forgives everybody. He doesn't. - I think even this could be debatable, but then again my Biblical knowledge is limited.
Actually Jesus didn't violate the laws of the Old Testament. (I've spent time googling this matter to find an answer; I'm by no means a Biblical expert.) Had he done so, he would have been a sinner. Since Jesus was without sin, he didn't.
Jesus didn't violate any Biblical law when he healed a person on the Sabbath. God's law never intended that healing be considered "work." The Pharisees (sinfully, since they added traditions of men to God's law) made their own rules as to what constituted work. It was their determination, and not God's, that Jesus violated the law. This is why Jesus rebuked them for not following the spirit of the law but rather only the letter.
The issue of following dietary laws is basically the same. Jesus did not overturn those laws; he just said that one didn't have to wash his hands before eating. Again, the handwashing rule was added by men into the Talmud; it was not Biblical law. With that said, many Christians (including myself) will find it disappointing to learn that we are only supposed to eat what is "kosher," just as the Jews do.
Jesus preventing the stoning was an act against hypocrisy, not against the death penalty itself. If you notice, the men were lining up only to stone the woman but not also the man who committed adultery with her. Secondly, it must be noted that capital punishment is the maximum punishment for adultery, not the only punishment.
Finally, I mentioned that Jesus and Yahweh are the same person because many people argue that, "Well God said that in the Old Testament, but Jesus said something else in the New Testament" without realizing that God and Jesus are the same. When God said something in the Old Testament, Jesus was also saying it.
In answer to Michaelwienerforpresident -
There's a reason why so many people (& not just liberals) think that Jesus & God are separate entities: Christ NEVER CLAIMED TO BE THE CORPOREAL MANIFISTATION OF GOD. The Holy Trinity was a concept manufactured within some of the Christian communities that ringed the Mediterranean world a couple of centuries AFTER the crucifixion. It was a means of elevating Christ above the material & into something even more sacred than the designation of messiah. This resulted in riotous debate within the Christian community & only became official dogma when the Emperor Constantine assembled the Council of Nicea. Those who still disputed this rather strange idea were there after branded as heretics, & felt the weight of the newly christianized Roman Empire hurled against them.
It was a concept that never made much sense, & was defended by the early church as a 'mystery'... meaning that they couldn't provide a sensible explanation for it & that people just had to take their word for it.
And they have ever since.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't God forgive everyone who seeks forgiveness?
You are correct. Anyone who humbles themselves before God and asks for forgiveness of their sins will receive it. Those who do not seek forgiveness and grace do not receive it.
There are many rightie fundies that seem to want to believe in their heart of hearts that while a convicted murderer can see the light and find God and forgiveness, a gay man never can. They have constructed of their own accord (certainly not of any biblical accord) that says that loving another of the same sex is a sin far worse than, say, bearing false witness, or not keeping the Sabbath holy. They have no support for that argument, but they'll continue sinning daily and pretending that somehow their sins are better than those of a homosexual.
That's not everybody though. Also, those who seek forgiveness must repent.
With his rant about radical Islam, Michael Savage has become the downscale version of Dinesh D'Souza who himself is a downscale version of Ann Coulter. Conservatism is morphing more and more into a limbo ideology. It's all about how low you can go.
While his rant was full of blabber, his views on Radical Islam are on the money. That is one Religion with Millions of ignorant 14th century wackos. MILLIONS.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover032907.htm
http://compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=4816
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=141108&version=1&template_id=40&parent_id=22
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/christian033007.htm
http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/225/225657_hindu_girls_risking_muslim_honey_trap_claim_forum.html
14th century whackos that Weiner wants to hop in bed with (metaphorically speaking).
We all know that every religion has its fanatics, and I'm not going to play the "But [blank] is even more evil!" game.
I guess you haven't been paying attention to the Dems for the past 40 years, have you?
yeah, I have, at least for 30 years and there is NO comparison between Coulter, and Weiner, and ANY Democrat. There is no equivelent to their hatespeech, advocacy of violence, and outright insanity. When a liberal of the media standing of a Coulter or Weinerdog, says we ought to beat conservatives with a baseball bat like Coulter or that we ought to just kill 100 million people apparantly at random get back to us, until then your attempt at a point was ludicrous. It is obviously YOU who have not been paying attention at ALL
No comparison?
Ahem: M. Moore, Bill Maher, Belafonte, Cornell West, Rosie, Danny Glover, Sean Penn, Olbermann, Jimmy Carter, Cindy Sheehan, Conason, Daily Kos, ......
Just for the hell of it, here are some columnists I like: Crouch, Paglia, Hitchens,...
None of those people are the equivalent of Counter or Savage.
I want a judges ruling on that. I am sorry the judges say that WHEN you can cough up an example of Conason, Moore, West, Mahar or Olberamann calling for poisoning a Supreme Court justice, assasinating a president, killing 100 million people, beating conservatives with baseball bats or torturing people as a televised sport and dropping daisy cutters at random anywhere in the world you will have a point. As of now you arent within a lightyear of a point.
Hey, Savage...
What bath houses are you talking about?
And how do you know they're filling up?
Unless maybe you've had to wait in line to get in...
For goodness sake when is Weiner going to get those megadoses of thorazine he so desperatly needs?
Where are:
Savagerocks
MichaelWeinerforPresident
and Braid the college rethuglican?
Won't anyone come to the Doctor's defense?
Maybe because they realize (we can only hope), that some of the things that flow from SavageMichael's lips are totatlly indefensible. Most posters here would probably say all that come from him are that way, I don't partake of his great knowledge (?), so I have no way of knowing whether he ever makes any sense or not. Listened briefly about 4 years ago and found him so over the top (or under the bottom), that I refuse to listen. Most times, I don't even read what MMFA posts, just scan the comments.
True. Don't forget that even his most vehement supporters here are often apologetic, citing his other opinions as basis for their support, and begging for us to give him the benefit of the doubt for things like his not being a Bush supporter.
I didn't see this message board until today. Sorry.
Probably banned for being too sane.
Again, you say that supporting the man who thinks 9/11 was God's punishment for tolerance of transsexuals and gays is SANE?
Either admit Weiner is wrong, or try to argue in his favor. Or just keep make lame non-sequitur posts, it seems to be the only thing you're good at.
I deny he is good at it his posts are weak and stupid
Thanks for nothing.
Your first cogent post. You are welcome, since nothing is all you bring nothing is all I can address.
Rent a brain cell. SANE posters are not banned. Ignorant, braindead trolls like you get banned. Your lack of basic brain function keeps you from recognizing the difference.
Renting is for losers, but if that's all you can come up with , you must be a renter.
At least I have an actual functioning cerebral cortex. On the other hand I pick things out of my sock that show more higher brain function than anything you have EVER posted. Since you got NOTHING rent, buy, beg, borrow or steal a brain cell somewhere. Even after it dies of lonliness you will at least know what it was like to have HAD one.
You do realize that you are not actually holding an argument? Don't you?
The little one liners and apparent lack of logic behind the personal attacks do not constitute an actual argument.
The rest of us are here to talk about issues (or get angered by conservatives), I suggest you go to a blog where you and your friends can exchange your words of wisdom. Example of what your posts sound like, (included free of charge) below:
"OMG! I saw Kevin at the mall today!"
"Like totally, isn't he cute!"
"Like for sure!"
Oops, I almost forgot. We have to mention Savage supports raising the minimum wage and didn't like NAFTA, and he states those positions just as vociferously as his positions on homosexuality, immigration and "islamofascists".
That's in case InterestingObserver comes along, we're covered as being "fair" on this thread.
That's in case InterestingObserver comes along, we're covered as being "fair" on this thread.
===============
Fair? I promise never to use language or tactics against Mikey & his that he hasn't already used agianst me & mine.
That good enough for ya?
Oh, that's perfectly good enough for me. I was talking about this guy.
I stand gratefully corrected. Than you.
There's a big elephant in the room that a lot of people are forgetting, divorce rates are at an all time high!! So god was pretty pissed off then. WTC in the cross hairs!
Well, in countries that tolerate immorality like gay marriage, the divorce rates are actually going down. Divorce is a sign of God's favor.
Don't what stats you are looking at, I have one set of data in front of me that shows divorce rates down in almost all states. My source - Division of Vital Statistics, National Center of Health Statistice, CDC. Any yours?????
Your right Oscar, divorce rates seem to be trending down indeed. Can't always trust what you hear in TV. It was meant to be sarcastic, while hoping the premise was valid. But its still absurd to associate increases in the rate of transgender operations with gods wrath upon mankind.
Ironically, the data shows the peak in divorce rates per capita in 1992, same year when Bill Clinton was elected and Hurricane Andrew struck. I still believe that the there is no correlation to the whole Gods wrath/punishment mantra, but it is striking to see that.
What I want to know is, if you buy the argument that this is an example of gods wrath, why was God being so selective in is supposed "punishment"? Why didn't he have the 9-11 hijackers crash into say.. an abortion clinic, doctors office where transgendered operations take place, or an lesbian fertility clinic? Why did he chose to kill 3000 innocent people?
Geez
I am getting so sick and tired of this website cherry picking his comments. I was listening to that show when it was live and what MMFA conveniently left out is that he was saying if he had a choice between living with the moral degeneracy we are living in today and living in a world of murderous throw backs from the 7th century he would pick the moral degeneracy. He said he could live with it but that doesn't mean he has to like it. I wan't to say what I have said over and over again. The only way you will know exactly what Michael Savage is about is by listening to his show live not by coming to this website. You will find out that he is not a part of the government media complex like Hannity and Limbaugh is. He has been honoured with the freedom of speech award from Talkers Magazine for being the first major conservative talk show host for critcizing Bush's policies. You can read more about it on michaelsavage.com. Since Savage is on three hours a day M-F, do you think that coming to this website that cherry picks everything he says to push their agenda against him gives you whole picture? I don't think so. Lastly all I can say is thank GOD for Michael Savage and Dr. Laura.
Namaste'
Have you stopped to ask yourself that if these are the cherries of Savage's thoughts......what - pray tell - are the pits?
And really - how very brave of him to challenge Bush after the entire world agrees he's run this country into the dirt - and his poll numbers are 30%
That's Savage - a profile in courage. And the apotheosis of compassion.
Savage has criticized Bush for years actually. He won the Free Speech Award from Talkers Magazine for being the first "big name" conservative talk radio host to bash Bush.
Wow - he got an award for finally doing what over 150 million other of his countrymen were doing before him. Where's their award? And what did he say about those criticising Bush before his conversion?
Yawn.
I don't think that there was a conversion. Savage has never been a big fan of Bush. With that said, Savage's attacks on Bush are fair. When Savage (rarely) feels that Bush is right on something, like tax cuts, he will also give kudos. Savage is not for bashing Bush just for the sake of bashing Bush. He's blasted Air America for being anti-intellectual Bush hatred. With that said, he blasts the Bushbots like Sean Hannity who kiss Bush's butt every day. Savage is an independent individualist. He's not going to like someone just because that person bashes Bush or loves Bush. Savage likes people (politically) if they are for borders, language, and culture.
I am against language.
Cherries of his thuoghts? I have read every thread about Savage on this site and they are all devoted to the same theme: find 2-3 passages of his show per week that are titilating, or are obvious "take off" on something topical, where Mike does an interior monologue not necessarily meant to be taken seriously unless you boil it down to the bare core, and even then your interpretation of what he says is entirely dependent on your political/societal outlook.
It's a talk show, not a thesis submitted for documentation.
So why don't we see this kind of rant AGAINST trans- and homophobia broadcast on our airwaves? Oh yeah - CONSERVATIVE MISINFORMATION IN THE MEDIA. You know, the sort of thing Media Matters for America has dedicated itself to exposing since the beginning.
And is it just me, or is a recurring defense for Weiner that "he doesn't really mean it"? He says all these appalling things, and the only thing you can say in his defense is that it's not meant to be taken seriously? What about all the times he could have apologized but didn't? What about the times he flat-out refuses to apologize? And don't forget the times where he just keeps repeating himself - when MMFA writes an article about Weiner, it's NEVER an isolated incident.
Oh no, I think he really means what he says, but he likes to overstate his arguments for emphasis. Does he go over the line at times? YES. Does he make me cringe at times? YES.
Actually, I think he hates all politicians anyway. He rarely if ever talks about the daily minutiae of the House or Senate. He basically talks about "culture" and how everything seems to boil down to "sex" and "race." He sees all of that and then some in San Fran Freako.
"He sees all of that and then some in San Fran Freako."
You've just won your argument with such an insightful observation.
WAAAHHH, stop pointing out Weinerdogs obvious insanity. He is kidding. When he says we ought to kill one hundred million Muslims, see how funny that is? WAAAHHHH, Weinerdog is such a kidder. You guys are so mean quoting his insanity verbatim. WAAAHHH stop making him look so bad with HIS OWN WORDS.
I listen to Savages show occasionally, not the entire show, but whole segments, between commercials.
Cherry-picking his show would be like taking one shovel load out of a septic tank. One could argue that the shovel doesn't contain the "big picture", but I'd say it gives you a pretty good idea.
You sound like Mark Levin.
You haven't made a point in several posts so far.You sound like Michael Weiner.
How often are you going to try to sell this weak nonsense. I dont CARE if he occasionally says something sane and reasonable, or if he USUALLY does. I am sick and tired of YOU pretending that if he EVER says anything sane, which is what he is PAID to do, that it gives him exta credit that means we shouldnt take him to task for his INSANITY. Saying a couple of SANE things doesnt mean he then gets to put his insane rantings beyond criticism. I am SICK of this nonstarter of an argument it MAKES NO SENSE AND YOU HAVE NO POINT.
Is this temper tantram directed at me? Whatever.
One sane thing Savage has said?
He correctly called the Duke (non) Rape story from day one.
CASE CLOSED.
Thanks, but nobody asked you to name one sane thing Weiner has ever said. I believe Solon acknowledged that Weiner might occasionally say something sane.
Solon is a broken record with,"he's INSANE....blah , blah , blah....
Stupid cons need repetition in order to penetrate their thick skull. They are something akin to a dog.
Conservatives come in here and repeat the same already debunked nonsense over and over and over and over ad nauseam. I assumed that was how you communicated in your primitive social hierarchy.
Ah did you MAKE that point? No you have NEVER made a point. If you learn to read you MIGHT be able to tell when the CONTEXT (better get a six year old to look that word up for you) of a post is aimed at you. It was at Christbutan who keep trying to convince us that if Weiner is sometimes reasonable we ought to give him extra credit and NOT criticise the insane rantings part of his diatribes.
Yes. Savage deserves a lot of credit for being the first person in the media who knew that the stripper was lying. I think that Media Matters even bashed Savage for calling the stripper vile names. As it turned out, Savage's namecalling was appropriate. This lady has destroyed so many lives with her lies. Also, if you think that Savage bashed her simply because she was black, he defended Kobe Bryant when he was falsely accused of rape. He called the alleged victim "Rocky Mountain White Trash."
That was very courageous of him. I think another award is in order.
God is speaking . . .
but Savage is yelling so loud that nobody can hear.
Let's assume that the Savage's words(?) have been taken out of context, or cherry-picked. What evidence does the Savage or any of his supporter's have to support the idea that the "level of degeneracy" in the 7th century was superior to the modern world?
It can easily be argued that one's access to "degeneracy" may be easier with the Internet, automobile, and ironically enough, Republican press corps; however, the Bible (of all places) and the Greek classics are rife with instances of people doing "wrong" things and being punished in some form or fashion for those transgressions. In case the Savage and his friends are not aware, the Bible and the Greek classics came way before the 7th century, but way after Jesus Ponies (aka dinosaurs).
FWIW, I argue, with historical support, that the 7th century had murderous thugs AND "degenerates"...and good folk who lamented for the good old days of the Athenian democracy.
Old Time Religion <!-- #EndEditable --> <!-- #BeginEditable "body" --> Chorus: Give me that old time religion (3x)And that's good enough for meWe will pray to AphroditeEven tho' she's rather flightyAnd they say she wears no nightieAnd that's good enough for meWe will pray with those EgyptiansBuild pyramids to put our crypts inCover subways with inscriptionsAnd that's good enough for meO-old Odin we will followAnd in fighting we will wallowTil we wind up in ValhallaAnd that's good enough for meLet me follow dear old BuddhaFor there is nobody cuterHe comes in plaster, wood or pewterAnd that's good enough for meWe will pray with ZarathustraPray just like we usetaI'm a Zarathustra boosterAnd that's good enough for meWe will pray with those old DruidsThey drink fermented fluidsWaltzing naked thru the woo-idsAnd that's good enough for me many more verses:http://www.uptownoncalhoun.org/songs/old_time_religion.html
Confirmed. This guy's a bona fide nut case, as nuts as those who pay attention to him!
Even though I'm an agnostic, I'm beginning to think that Michael Savage himself may be proof that a funny and ironic God does exist: Hitler reincarnated as a Jew. Oh, great Creator, you are a bundle of laughs!
Honestly, what the hell is UP with Savage's utter hatred of homosexuality?
Did his Boy Scout leader touch him in an inappropriate way? Did Allan Ginsberg violate him somehow? How else to account for his constant vitriol against gays and lesbians?
Supposedly, Savage's father treated him like garbage, beating him up, constantly questioning his manhood and such. I'm guessing those traumatic experiences are in no small part responsible for the My Lai Massacre known as Michael Savage's Psyche. And, you know, if you put together ALL the homosexuals and those seeking sex-change operations together in the world, I don't think they even comprise ONE PERCENT of the population.
Ahhh, interesting. That would explain a lot about his psychosis, his homphobia and sociopathy a direct result of his upbringing. A psych major could do their doctoral thesis on this nutter.
He's just crestfallen after being turned down by Dan Savage. After he took his name and everything!
There's nothing like a man scorned.
Here's something that I've been wondering about lately: If events like 9-11 and Katrina are Divine punishments, does that mean that on days when it's 72 degrees and sunny, that God is really happy with us and that we're doing things right?
Exactly - which means that when the economic conditions and education rates are so much higher in say - San Francisco & Massachusetts than the bible belt - God is favoring and approving them.
Looking for information to prove that there is a Creator? Get a right brain.