Cavuto: "[A] ho is a ho, right?"
On the April 12 edition of Fox News' Your World, while discussing the controversy surrounding radio host Don Imus' recent remarks, host Neil Cavuto asked rapper M-1, one half of the group Dead Prez, "[A] ho is a ho, right?" Cavuto added: "So, if Imus uses the expression and then you use the expression, you've both said 'ho.' " He later said, "So, there's nothing wrong with Imus saying it, right?" On the April 4 edition of Imus in the Morning, which was then produced by CBS Radio and simulcast on MSNBC, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos."
Cavuto also called Imus' remark "an errant comment" and "a badly phrased comment." However, as Media Matters for America has noted, Imus' comment was part of a pattern of racial smears on Imus in the Morning.
From the April 12 edition of Fox News' Your World with Neil Cavuto:
CAVUTO: M-1, I know that this is not your parent company, but NBC Universal owns Interscope Records, which has, under its employ, a lot of rap artists who routinely say stuff like you've just said and worse. And, NBC is OK with that, not OK with Don Imus making an errant comment. Do you find that, just as an artist, hypocritical?
M-1: No, I don't find it hypocritical mainly because of our relationship to the system -- our relationship with our oppressor. Once again, with personal responsibility taken at hand here, we're talking about rappers who are coerced to say things other than what the reality of our community is and Mr. Imus, who obviously has said sentiments that come from his personal beliefs. I think you are comparing apples and oranges here even when you bring the rap community into the question. And once --
CAVUTO: No, you know, M-1, I don't think I am. I mean, a ho is a ho, right? So, if Imus uses the expression and then you use the expression, you've both said "ho."
M-1: Well, no, I don't --
CAVUTO: Well, you've both said it. So, now, you're saying --
M-1: No, I don't use "ho."
CAVUTO: All right, so --
M-1: I don't say "ho." And that's my point exactly. And even the word "ho" existed way before 1976, when rap began. "Ho" is a relationship between the pimp and the pimper, the pimpee, if it may. And so --
CAVUTO: So, there's nothing wrong with Imus saying it, right?
M-1: Well, of course --
CAVUTO: And there's nothing wrong then with rappers -- unlike yourself -- saying it, right?
M-1: Well, of course there's something wrong with both of those relationships. However, what governs that relationship is the historical relationship of oppression between black people and our white oppressors in this country, and that's not a racist statement, that's the reality that we live in.
CAVUTO: But Don Imus wasn't oppressing you or anyone else. He made a mistaken -- maybe a badly phrased comment. He's lost a job on the air as a result of it. You can continue to make pretty, you know, outlandish comments for art, whatever you want to call it. It just doesn't seem right. Does it seem right to you?
The other right-wing media mogul you should worry about
Palin's book and Obama's bow: a media week to forget
Media Matters: The Palin chronicles
Digusting.
total over-reaction. Humor attempt or not, he didn't call anyone a racial slur. Nappy refers to hair, ho refers to street girl. The girls are tough, he was saying such. Chris Rock does it, he gets laughs. An old drunk does it, he loses his job. Total bullcrap. Did he say "those are some ugly niggaz"? No.
Believe me, I'm not supporting him. He's a long-time offensive dolt. This is just getting overblown. Bigtime. Where was the outrage when Tawana Brawley claimed six white officers smeared her body with feces and scrawled racial slurs on her? Where's the outrage of Sharpton laundering drug money to an undercover agent?
The hypocracy is mind blowing.
I don't recall the alleged money laundering situation, so I can't speak to that. However, I do recall tremendous outrage against Mr. Sharpton when the truth about the Tawana Brawley situation broke. Is that what you were trying to suggest was downplayed? That's not how I remember it...
Remind me again why calling a woman a prostitute is a compliment?
There is no way in the reality based universe you can reasonably claim calling them nappy headed ho's was NOT a racist slur. Thats just ludicrous.
Oh my god, this is painful. I am going full race traitor. Is there any way I can resign my whiteness?
Good one, Valentinian! You made me chuckle out loud. When you find out where to send your resignation, post the info. I'm sure there will be a lot of people joining you -- me included. Or, better than abandoning the whole race to a$$holes like Cavuto, maybe we could just assign a new "color" to the Cavutos (and the Imuses, and Savages, and Limbaughs, and and Hannitys, and Becks, and Boortzes, etc.) of the world!! That way they won't be embarrassments to "whites" any more. Any suggestions?
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!
Oh my god, this is painful. I am going full race traitor. Is there any way I can resign my whiteness? /// valentinian
Don't disparage, you can be Irish! Saint Patty's Day is every day from 4-6 Happy Hour, corner of the bar!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
I'm half-Irish, half-Italian. When I get drunk, I want to beat myself up.
Valentinian,
How is your comment any different, really, than what Imus said? Is it because it was directed at yourself? If so, then I think that can be considered somewhat racist ("nationalist"?) as we all belong to humanity (well, maybe not O'Reilly, but anyway).
I don't agree with what Imus said, but I do think he is a far cry from the O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Hannitys, and Coulters of the world.
-Krenith
What is so hard to understand about this?
Dude, if you can't see the difference between an ironic comment directed from myself to myself, and a 67-year-old white man using black dialect calling a teenage black kid a dirty prostitute, then there is absolutely no way I can explain it to you.
The amount of work you guys are willing to do to avoid seeing the obvious when it contradicts your assumptions is nothing short of astounding.
"The amount of work you guys..." Er, are you calling me a conservative? Look at my past posts, I have a feeling you won't think I'm conservative. Just because I disagree with you on something does not in any way make me a conservative. This is what is wrong with the extremists on both sides (e.g., Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly on the right and Rhandi Rhodes (sp?) on the left), they (you?) jump to conclusions. I won't give you a rundown of my credentials, but I find it hard to believe that a conservative would have worked at the Innocence Project (something I did for a year), is pro-choice, anti-death penalty, believes in paying higher taxes for a better health-care system, and believes in the estate tax.
And, you obviously missed my point. I know the difference between what you were saying and what Imus was saying. . .I'm just not sure how large a difference there is. I did not consider what Imus said to be funny, though he was trying to make a joke; I do not consider what you said to be funny, though you were trying to make a joke. Basically, you're saying it is ok to make fun of yourself. However, what if others of the same background find offense in what you are saying? If Imus were really Oprah in disguise, would his comment have been ok?
I'm running on, but basically, it was NOT ok for Imus to say what he did, just like it would NOT be ok for Oprah to say it, just like it should NOT be ok for you to say what you said. I don't think it matters if its a 67-year old white man who says something offensive about others, or an 18-year old black girl who says something offensive about herself. It is still wrong.
On a side note, I think Solon's head is going to explode soon from explaining to everyone how this is NOT a free speech issue.
-Krenith
Its frustrating. I dont see how people keep missing that simple statement of FACT.
Well, don't jump ship yet. I'm still German, despite horrible things done by germans in the past. I think we should all learn from our ancestors mistakes...
When it comes to Hos...
...ya couldn't find a better poster boy than Cavuto.
It's just that his pimps would take a long time to list.
M-1 Is An Idiot. But, Once Again The Right Wing Media Desperately Tries To Change the Subject. Yeah Cavuto, It's all that Rap Music Imus Was Listening to that led him astray. The No Accountability GOP Strikes Again.
I think Cavuto's brilliantly thought-out point was that the women who live in the ghetto and trade sex for money and drugs, which all of todays young rappers sing about, are the same as this group of young ladies who play basketball for Rutgers, about whom Imus spoke less than eloquently. "A ho is a ho..."
And Cavuto's saying it's not fair. Imus should be able to call college educated female athletes "sl*uts" the same way that rappers refer to fictional females in song lyrics. Especially if it's merely a slip of the tongue and intended to be funny.
It would be funny.
if...?
jeshopk and Duncan are collaborating on a complete sentence. Target date - Summer 2009.
I have to take exception to your statement that M-1 is an idiot. Dead Prez, along with The Roots, are tremendously socially aware and take great pains to use their relative celebrity to enact change within the hip-hop community. Sample these lyrics: "Would you rather have a Lexus or justice? A dream or some substance? A Beamer, a necklace, or freedom?"
My problem is with my own people disrespecting us. M-1 is the stereotypical couscous rapper. Just because you talk crazy about white people does not make you intelligent, stupid. “Brotha’s”, we have to clean up our own backyard before we can start complaining about our neighbors. Hip Hop is Dead.
I have to take exception to your statement that M-1 is an idiot. Dead Prez, along with The Roots, are tremendously socially aware and take great pains to use their relative celebrity to enact change within the hip-hop community. Sample these lyrics: "Would you rather have a Lexus or justice? A dream or some substance? A Beamer, a necklace, or freedom?"
- ShamelessLib / Thursday April 12, 2007 10:03:55 PM EST - Reply to this comment / Flag this comment ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And lest we forget the line that precedes the bar that you quoted:
"If we don't get them they gon' get us all; I'm down for runnin' up on those crackers at their city hall."
dead prez are positive in the sense that they're trying to motivate the black community in some instances, but their "revolution" involves violence and bigotry. I don't think you can really characterize them as purveyors of tolerance and loving one another. I'm just saying, is the term "cracker" any less inflamatory than any other racial slur?
And this is coming from someone who bought Get Free the first day it came out.
Fantastic! The libtards, Sharpton and Jackson brought this on themselves. You think what Imus said was humiliating? You havn't seen anything yet. Don't forget that conservative, white commentators rule the radio airwaves. You are in for a ride :-) Oh, and Obama? His chances of winning just became SO slim. Nobody wants a trouble maker. People will identify him with Sharpton and Jackson. lol.
guess that solves your problem of how to deal with having a black president.
Condoleeza will be the first black president. She will run in her lifetime and will win. She is fantastic!
i want to see her run after "her lifetime". that's when i'll admit she's something special.
Applause light, please! AND well-earned!
I second that, although the Zombaleeza image scares me a little.
Zombaleeza
You are too funny - can't breath, laughing too hard.
yo please do not say anything else about my people you are just an immigrant who has no clue of this nation and it's troubling past please know that What this has done is wake up blk men like me who will hold you and others like yourself accountable if i knew you personally things would be very uncomfortable.
P.s CONDI RICE DOES REPRESENT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE ANYWAY SO YOU CAN HAVE HER.
Can you rap that?
are you for real?
Don't hate until you've heard his CD..
Fantastic at being a lying war criminal orc.
Rice? Fantastic? Oh really?
I will never be able to get past her testimony that said "I belive the title was 'Bin Ladin determined to attack inside the United States'...."
I will grow wings and fly to Sweden to accept my Nobel prize for gumchewing with my ASS before the GOP nominates a black woman to be president of the United States.
Holy cripes, just fell off my chair laughing. Actually still laughing as I write this.
Excuse me. may I interrupt your ranting for a quick question?
For days you've been screeching that all of this focus on Imus distracts from the big problem. The fact that our young men and young women are dying in Iraq senselessly.
Yet, now you're spouting an endorsement for one of the architects of our involvement in the Middle East. She is one of George W. Bush's biggest cheerleaders and bears a lot of the blame for all of the death and destruction in Iraq.
Now, my question: Are you off your meds?
--"Condoleeza"--
Or perhaps a black Republican member of Congress will become president.
Sorry--I forgot that there are no black Republican members of Congress.
You might want to work on that first.
Huh? Fantastic? Where have you been. If you are talking about her proficiency at playing the piano, the I absolutely agree. Other than that, it is extremely difficult to find much Condi has been right about.
She went on and on about the aluminum tubes being part of centrifuges despite what the people at the Dept. of Energy had concluded. She was the one talking about "mushroom clouds" over Iraq to scare up support for the Iraq War. She was unable to get the newly armed predator back in the sky in early 2001 in order to get bin laden. She has accused Iran of fueling Islamic extremist Taliban (Iran's actual enemy at the time) in Afghanistan. She was the top Sovietologist when our intelligence community completely missed the collapse of communism.
Condoleezza has a huge history of being wrong on nearly everything.
In your dreams you ConPunks can go back to hiding and shivering under your bed at the thought of a black president.
Sounds like he's channeling Dr. Seuss. Cavuto Hears a Ho.
"A ho is a ho, no matter how nappy."
..."And I'm sure you will think that my thoughts are quite crappy..."
but why are they worse than those lyrics so rappy?
just because Imus' turkey neck is so flappy?
and his face looks like a plate of prosciutto
It's hard out there for a Cavuto.
Hey, Zamfir, Master of the pants flute, put some music to that.
Apparently the Caveman is right (if he is referring to Hip-Hop music). I've heard several apologists the past couple of days saying what Imus was "fired" for is ok if it's in musically lyrics.
If you've heard "several," I'm sure you can find one link to someone who says calling a woman a ho is "ok if it's in musically lyrics."
Do your own diggin', Valentinian. I listen to the radio in my 10 minute (each commute) each day, don't take the time to make notes. But if you are willing to pay for my research time, maybe we could work something out............. ($75/hr, 4 hr min, at least one source cited).
Typical Crybaby Repubs.It's Black People's Fault That Imus Called A College Basketball Team Nappy Headed Hoes.
Imus is the only one responsible for his situation. It was wrong for him to utter those words, intended in jest or not, it is wrong for "musicians" to use the same type of words or phrases. There is hypocrisy here, by Sharpie and his ilk, by posters here (condeming Imus, backing "artists"). Bill Cosby tells it like it is some time back and got a lot of grief for it. Just as Imus has to stand up and take his punishment like a "man", there are others in this country that need to take responsibility for their actions/words (starting with M-1, who is playing the victim above).
So... what rapper called the Rutger's women's basketball team ho's and got away with it?
I think you make a good point and a valid distinction. When rappers call women "hoes", they are saying it about anonymous women we don't really know (maybe it is even deserved?). Imus was far more specific in his comments. We know precisely who Imus was calling "hoes" and it was simply uncalled for.
So, I think I finally have this figured out. If I post, "Poster X, you are a *bleep*", then I've crossed the line of decency and will be punished. But if I say, "Some of the posters here (most publishing under a cover name) are *bleeps*", it's ok because I didn't single any one person, demographic, etc out for attack. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. In the meantime, Mr. Imanas_ got what he deserved and it was done the way it should have been done, through public outrage and not by a government program.
Actually I think you may have inadvertantly spelled it out very well. Anyone who would complain that you called them a *bleep* while you were being general about it, would be self-identifying to a point. People generally realize this and don't complain.
You provided an excellent working example of how it works although, I am not convinced you completely understand yet.
No, I knew you were talking out your ass, I was just curious to see how you'd wiggle out of it.
Wow, typical liberal. "I'll take it if it's is free, but I don't want to expend time or $ to get it myself." M-1, above, is trying to defend his genre (dang poor example) and appears to think it's ok to use words like got Imus in hot water.
Typical conservative, expecting others to pay for cleaning up his pollution.
I took 30 seconds of my precious time to scroll up and find the following:
Debunked. I bill by the hour, so you're going to have to pay in full.
Snoop Dog - MTV Where do I send the bill?
And while M-1 denies using the word, still defends the use through "victimhood."
When you put a word in "quotes," Oscar, that means you are "quoting" someone else. M-1 doesn't say "victimhood."
Explain to me how he defends the use of 'ho.' Tell me exactly what he said that does that.
Bad use of quotation marks on my part. But in reading M-1 comments, I get the impression he is using victimhood as an excuse for the culture that spawned the words than Imanas_ used to get himself retired.
'Wow, typical liberal. "I'll take it if it's is free, but I don't want to expend time or $ to get it myself."' --oscar
It is your argument and your job to support it. I don't know what is so hard for some conservatives to understand about that. It is pretty funny the way you try to turn things around to blame it on liberals. You should know better than that, Oscar.
Not by this liberal. I hate crap music. Can't stand watching my son think it's cool. Takes a lot of effort to ensure he understands, something I never thought I'd have to do growing up never having been exposed to it as a kid.
But, the sad thing is, this falls into the same category of a long list of things that are bad for us. Your typical "seller" wants us to think it isn't his fault if we buy it, but we shouldn't punish him for making it available in the first place. Which is why I don't support taking on rap artists when the bigger gain can be had taking on the enablers of it.
Conservatives would get lots of kudo's if they recognized this fact and went after every business supplying something so bad. Crap can be blamed on liberals, but there are so many more things just as bad or worse that conservatives should take credit for. So how about making it a bi-partisan solution and solve it together rather than engaging in that one-upmanship the right has been fostering?
Snoop, every genre of music has its crap. Sorry to see you dismiss a whole musical style in its entirety, but de gustibus non est disputandum. My fiancee can't take it either, I have to listen in the car.
You may have a point, as I pointed out, it wasn't around when I grew up, and all I've heard was what my son listens too. I very well could be making that mistake. I would have to have examples of better rap to listen to. I'm willing to take suggestions.
I'm old, I like ATCQ, the Roots, Spearhead, stuff of that nature.
Look like Preston_P is here, he's definitely the one to school you...
Mr. T did some very positive rapping based on the Bible many years ago. I remember these lyrics;
Honor thy father and mother
the Bible makes it clear
If you break that rule, God help you fool,
You'll have Mr. T to fear !
Check your local record store !
I heard a rap song by a guy called Black Cat that was astonishingly profound. The lyrics were incredible. I have heard garbage too, all in all I am stuck in the 70's when it comes to music.
Ha! That makes two of us. I get glared at if I happen to leave the CD on too long after starting the car with my husband in the passenger's seat.
part of it is that rap and rock stations hardly ever play the same stuff. Chances of you hearing someone with true talent like Mos Def for instance if you listen to rock stations, so the exposure and chance to appreciate it is lowered. The problem is unless you did listen to it growing-up it is much harder to sort through the chaff and get to the good stuff, no matter what genre you are talking about.
Just because the " head of something at FOX " utters the word, it does not diminish the fact Imus called those young ladies something terrible and untrue. Calling people names is not like peeing in the ocean where is gets diluted to the point of extinction. Every newscast has repeated the name calling verbatin and think it gets diluted. It does not, these young ladies and others like them are the future of american intellectual property. Newscasters are now trying to equate this to ganster rap and that is so stupid You dont have to buy thoses lyrics.
I love how people keep forgetting that "ho" is short for "whore". I wonder if Cavuto has a sister. If he does, I wonder how he'd feel if I called her a "whore" on the radio.
It's not ok in music. It's not ok anywhere. It's a perfect example of why I think blacks should stop calling themselves racial slurs. It's not a term of endearment, it's self hatred. And it just gives whites and other groups an excuse to use those slurs as well.
And where did they find this M-1 guy? I guess they just picked some random rapper to put on the show in order to "get the vibe of the streets". One rapper speaks for all of them I suppose? Oh well, I guess he has a record to promote.
And where did they find this M-1 guy? I guess they just picked some random rapper to put on the show in order to "get the vibe of the streets". One rapper speaks for all of them I suppose? Oh well, I guess he has a record to promote.
That's because just like most of the liberals they put on the show, they'll find a rapper that's a straight caricatures just so they can point and say to their audience, "See, this is what is corrupting our children? They're all like this?!" M-1 is a moron. They wouldn't dare add an intelligent rapper such as Mos Def, Common, Lupe Fiasco, or even old schoolers like Chuck D, KRS-1, to have an incisive discussion.
Sounds like I'm alone on this one, but I think M-1 did an okay job of defending his position.
iflurry, I guess I'm a bit biased because I always thought in his music he never thoroughly explains his positions that well to incite a credible debate, and in this interview he did just that. He could've explained the origins of "ho" and why so many "gangsta rappers" use it by placing it in a proper context. I think he tried but he didn't do enough. I believe that's why they should've had someone like Chuck D to set the record straight on this; however, he's considered to be a very militant brother, and those types tend to scare folks too often.
They could have gotten someone better, but if they were looking for someone to justify what they are talking about, Dead Prez isn't the right group. They basically go against everything thats wrong in Hip hop today from all of the music I have heard from them. He didn't do a bad job considering, but he could have done better.
I don't agree with some of the stuff he said though just to be clear.
There's some position for an artist being perverse. It can be defended. For someone seeing a way to make alot of money. To have street cred. I'm not much for. It is hard to tell the difference, except by seeing what they bring to society, which can take some time.
Eh, what do I know? I'm a metalhead. Ellen Goodman and Jerry Falwell would stand side-by-side throwing metal cd's into a bonfire. :)
"Condoleeza will be the first black president. She will run in her lifetime and will win. She is fantastic!
Running in her lifetime should certainly optimize her chances.
Ptrdgr
It's Funny To Hear M-1 Talk About The Black Community Being Oppressed. When Him And His Ilk Are The Equivalent Of Asian People Mimicking Jerry Lewis' As The Chinese Chef.
God damn, I thought Media Matters was better than this. I really liked Media Matters, but I started to notice during its campaigns to get Ann Coulter vanished from the media that MM wished not just to bring light upon the lies in the news, but to limit free speech on the airwaves.
Holding the News to a level of journalistic integrity is one thing, but this is completely different. And dangerous.
Que??
So it's ok now to yell fire in a crowded theatre?
THERE IS NO FREE SPEECH ISSUE HERE. NONE. How many times does this need to be pointed out? Gangleskank Coulter is free to spew her hatespeech and vast ignorance on any streetcorner in America. No one has a RIGHT to an audience. It doesnt exist. The airwaves BELONG TO US. They are public trust and are supposed to perform a public service. In any sense they are betraying that trust they can be held accountable and since they BELONG TO US, we have every right to vioce our opinion about how that trust is being used. The shingles on my roof know more about genetic recombination than you guys know about our constitution.
Do you all realize that this has been one of the best orchestrated coups ever brought down on the people of the United States?
Recall when Reagan got in office with Papa Bush. One of the first things they did was get rid of the Fairness Doctrine.
WIKIPEDIA: In 1986 the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld a loose interpretation by the Reagan administration influenced FCC of an aspect of the Fairness Doctrine, ruling that Congress had "never made the doctrine a binding requirement." In August 1987, the Commission abolished the doctrine by a 4-0 vote, in its Syracuse Peace Council decision. The FCC insisted that the doctrine had grown to inhibit rather than enhance debate and suggested that, due to the many media voices in the marketplace at the time, the doctrine was perceived to be unconstitutional.
In the spring of 1987 Congress attempted to contest the FCC vote and restore the Doctrine (S. 742, 100th Cong., 1st Sess. (1987)), but the legislation was vetoed by President Reagan. Another attempt to resurrect the doctrine in 1991 ran out of steam when President George H.W. Bush threatened another veto.[3]
Two corollary rules of the doctrine, the "personal attack" rule and the "political editorial" rule, remained in practice until 2000. The "personal attack" rule was pertinent whenever a person or small group was subject to a character attack during a broadcast. Stations had to notify such persons or groups within a week of the attack, send them transcripts of what was said, and offer the opportunity to respond on the air. The "political editorial" rule applied when a station broadcasts editorials endorsing or opposing candidates for public office, and stipulated that the candidates not endorsed be notified and allowed a reasonable opportunity to respond.
The U.S. Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit, ordered the FCC to justify these corollary rules in light of the decision to repeal the Fairness Doctrine. The FCC did not provide prompt justification, and ultimately ordered their repeal in 2000.
As of early 2007, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT), along with Representatives Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), and Louise Slaughter (D-NY) have announced their support of legislation which would reverse the 1987 FCC decision and restore the Fairness Doctrine.[4]
It has been routinely criticized by conservatives in the media as a means of keeping their views from being expressed or of deliberately cutting their available air time in half.
Then they allowed OUR media to be bought by non- United States citizens like Ruppert Murdock.
Slowly, they took over the media until one was hard put to find a different viewpoint. Travel from the East Coast to the West Coast at any time of day or night and you hear the same brainwashing crap from the Rabid Rightwing Rupublican hatemongers.
Wake up people.
Good points, good post
Though I'm Mexican, I think Cavuto does make a point.
Besides that, how can M1 refer to present White people as "oppressors"? That's ridiculous!
The U.S. invaded my home country over 100 years ago...true. My grandparents might have lived under a racist south, but you know what? I don't. I've bettered myself and obtained an education. I don't hold a grudge against the children or grandchildren of those racist individuals who once "oppressed" my ancestors. That would be stupid.
Move to Indiana and see what he means about oppression. Mexicans are moving further east and south. When you get there you will see how beautiful America is. I grew up getting shot at and beat for going too far into white neighborhoods. That is what he means by oppression. That's why I moved to the Southwest. It's a whole different country here. Maybe now I can work on being proud to be American.
I think that IMUS is a good example of FREE SPEECH on the radio. Yes, you are FREE to SPEAK but you must pay the piper if it comes to business. I didn't fire IMUS, he got fired by the Corporate gang who were afraid of losing money.
Where are the CONSERVATIVE MORAL POLICE? Shouldn't they be dismissive of IMUS...calling young girls names on the airwaves..
Also, isn't it always said that if you don't like it, don't listen. Well, I never listened to IMUS but I have heard and read what he said..so I was forced to listen..I heard and he was an ignorant man trying to be "FUNNY"..guess this joke cost him..he should be proud that he used his "right" of free speech. He should stand tall as a man...Who's next is the Repug talking point? Don't know for sure but who would like to test the Corporate Giants next?
JESHOPK...you are kidding about this form of free speech being limited..you must be kidding, IMUS used his last FREE SPEECH card.
Never did like Imus, but him being fired seems disingenuous in light of the homophobic hate of Weiner Savage, the not-even-thinly disguised racism of Limbaugh, and the insanity of Boortz, the xenophobia and anger management problems of O'Reilly... Maybe Imus' firing signals a shift in our acceptance of offensive content as a society.
I note with some glee the worrisome comments made by Hannity on his radio show today about conservative radio being targeted, or people looking and listening for ways to "get" him. From his lips to God's [and the FCC's and corporate ownership's] ears! Hannity and Limbaugh have been on an anti-fairness doctrine rant for some time, not to mention the local radio parrots I tune across on occasion. Maybe, just maybe, we are witnessing the beginning of the eclipse of right wing talk radio. Now if we could only get rid of reality TV as well...
As much as I hate to admit it, though, I think there's a valid point (no doubt unintended to be valid) by these people when they try and build a comparison between Imus using this language and the same language being used in hip-hop and on the streets. This dumb white boy has always found it offensive. "Bitch", except when talking about a dog, is a verb in my lexicon (he bitches, she bitches, I bitch), "ho" is something I use to cut weeds and roots with., and "nigga" is a random series of letters showing ignorance and disrespect. How does anyone get away with degrading race and gender in this way, regardless of race or color? We should call everyone on it, every time.
RangerPhil,,,these talk show morons are trying to equate the words HO, NIGGA etc. to Black Culture via the music. If this is the case, I must state that White America can be identified by those paragons of virtue..Brittany Spears and Anna Nicole Smith.
Neither are correct and the Limbaughs will only convince his sheep of his ideas.
This is a real good example of the type of nonsense that Cavuto spews out, he can be argued into an absolute corner and still is so dumb that he can pretend that he won the argument.
How any person so lacking in skills could land his job is just mind-boggling. He plainly was out-classed trying to discuss this subject with M-1.
Only on Faux News would this dolt fit in and thrive.
Oh Chuck D would make mincemeat of Cavuto. :) KRS-1 would go the hell off on him.
It sort of reminds me of when Satanism was the media's hysteria du jour back in the mid to late 80's. Geraldo Rivera had that one prime-time special on the whole thing. And they trotted out Ozzy Osbourne! :) He had no idea where he was or what was going on. Geraldo's grilling him about devil worship, and he's like "Huh? I don' conjure up demons, man."
Eh, I'm a metalhead. They hate my music too.
First they came for the rappers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a rapper...
Har! Val- you're killin' me.
Why would he have had Ozzy on, many of Black Sabbaths lyrics were overtly religious. Ozzy was a great singer but not the brightest crayon in the box.
Btw, while we're on the subject of stereotypes, I find Cavuto embarassing to me as a white man. God, look at the guy. He's a cariciature. It's like he's a minstrel created to defame me. Could they find a dorkier looking white person to talk about hip-hop culture on tv?
Ooops!!!! I forgot that I have a link to my myspace page here. I suppose that I'm leaving myself wide open. :)
MMFA is the most dangerous organization in America. You just can't wait for the fairness docrine, you want everyone banned from speaking.
I'm offended by MMFA, and the bloggers on this website, should I ban all of you from speaking?
We seek not to shut you up, but rather to amplify your voice - for there is no more certain means to wreak your downfall.
Way to talk yourself in knots, L. You can't "ban" us, any more that we can "ban" Imus. He can speak all he wants, he just can't force advertisers to buy spots on his show if he calls teenage kids prostitutes.
"MMFA is the most dangerous organization in America. "
Yes, that seems like a reasonable point. If you hate America.
We are on the same page, your ignorance offends me. Feel free to TRY to ban me. Oh yeah, ITS NOT YOUR WEBSITE. Let me translate from wingnutese for the newer members. When LDoren says...
MMFA is the most dangerous organization in America.
He means WWWAAAAAHHHHHH stop exposing the stupidity, racism, and hatespeech of my heroes, its dangerous, WWAAHHHHHH.
You just can't wait for the fairness docrine, you want everyone banned from speaking...
Yeah, that bad ol fairness doctrine. Allowing alternate opinions to be aired, allowing the accused a chance to defend themselves, giving equal airtime to alternate viewpoints, why, my god! Even the name, fairness doctrine, just smacks of censorship!
"First they came for the rappers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a rapper..."
Oh yeah. While we're on the subject, they did come after "my people". :) Remember the PMRC? Remember the Filthy Fifteen? 9 of the songs picked were heavy metal songs And the funny thing is that when they attacked the lyrics, they often times misinterpreted them. They Moral Majority types are only going after rap because it's what's selling now.
I remember being a teenager at the time. I was actually profiled as a Satanist because I was a white male with long hair, sneakers, and a concert tee shirt.
I actually thought all the hysteria was a hoot though. I loved when the bible thumpers would get the vapors over it. They'd pull out Iron Maiden's The Number of the Beast and conveniently ignore that the song itself was partially inspired by and includes a direct quote from the Book of Revelations. It was hilarious.
And of course they blamed Marilyn Manson for Columbine.
They need to have Gaahl from Gorgoroth on. Talk about a scary dude.
Now I know how my eldest son (and another, come to think of it) felt about my earnest entreaties to endeavor to find lasting beauty in their music! (By son #3, I had stopped trying to influence taste in music, and willing to settle for "no dope in my house.")
Thanks for the memories!
I tried to settle for "no dope in my house."
They kicked me out...
Interesting twist!
Yeah Iwarrior, I remember the PMRC. Still have a beef with Tipper Gore, and lots of respect for Frank Zappa, Jello Biafra and the others who went against them.
The misinterpreting of songs was hilarious, I was more into the punk scene in the late 70s/early 80s, and if you weren't familiar with it, the music was heavy on sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek lyrics.Sort of rebelling against the dead earnest "all you need is love" themes of the 60s .
The Dead Kennedys had a song called Kill the poor that was about rich white people using the neutron bomb to clear out the people in the slums without damaging the real estate. That one was trotted out to the judges as a violent song.
My other favorite was "White Noise"a song by Stiff little Fingers .It had 3 verses just loaded with racial slurs and epithets, one about Blacks, one about Pakistanis and the third directed at the Irish.(Don't click if you're offended by words in any context)
The PMRC mentioned it as an example of a racist hate song, until they had it explained to them that the band was from Belfast, Northern Ireland, and the song was written from the point of view of the British (not in general, the racist ones).
I remember the metal bands geting a lot of grief too.
Remember the young, slender Tipper Gore reading lyrics at the hearings: "Let me stick mahh luuuuuve into youuuu?" Remember Dee Snider testifying? God those were weird days...
I remember when RamJam was attacked for their remake of the Song Black Betty, saying they were being racist. They pointed out the song was written by the great black songwriter Ledbetter (Leadbelly) and they did the song as on homage to him.
Solon, weird moment you reminded me of- my girl likes to watch ice skating, and one afternoon, amidst all of the dramatic music the figure skaters use, one Eastern European came out on the ice to Black Betty (Ram Jam version). I had to respect the breaking the convention part of that.
That would be breaking conventions alright. Love the song, sorry I missed that. Since it was figure skating I may have been doing something more exciting like breathing
The things we do for love (10cc)
I may be showing my age, but Tipper still pisses me off as well. I do remember Frank Zappa testifying before congress and debating against the PMRC on different shows. He was more eloquent than any of his adversaries.
I think you can even say that Frank Zappa wrote and recorded one of the prototype rap songs in 1966. It was a song on The Mothers of Invention album "Freak Out" called "Trouble Every Day". One of my favorite verses is:
"You know something people I'm not black, but there's a whole lots of times I wish I could say I'm not white"
"Still have a beef with Tipper Gore, and lots of respect for Frank Zappa, Jello Biafra and the others who went against them."
-----
At those hearings, it was Frank Zappa who convinced Tipper Gore that what she was trying to do wasn't right, and she quit the organization. Frank Zappa was a friend of the Gores until his death.
I have no beef with Tipper Gore, she is an intelligent woman who was able to be convinced that she was wrong, and she did something about it.
Contrast that with your typical Neocon, who has never done anything wrong in his life, and in case he does something wrong, well, he has never done anything wrong in his life.
You're right, Easy. I'm not mad at Tipper anymore, I don't hold a grudge. ;0)
Strangely enough, I disliked Tipper for what I regarded as an attempt at censorship at the time. However, the parental advisory labels only made it easier to tell if you were buying the good (the one with the advisory label) version of the cassette, CD, Album.
I don't think I would have been so drawn to rap and hip-hop if there had never been a label on it.
We lost a great man when we lost Zappa. Great musician, great thinker... I was an early member of the "Draft Zappa for President" campaign.
We lost another great man when Jerry passed.
I was fortunate enough to see Frank play in a small club with the original Mothers in the sixties, when dinosaurs walked among us.
I also remember seeing him in a hockey arena in the late eighties. I went to the men's room, someone yelled "Cop" and everyone threw their dope in the toilet and ran out. It wasn't until I was there alone that I understood that they thought I was the cop.
What a drag it is...
Well the stuff I listen to isn't for everyone. I just don't like when people act as if it has no artistic value or that none of the bands have anything to say or are socially and politically conscious. I was reading an article on Common Dreams recently about the need for new anti-war anthems. I posted all of these anti-war lyrics from heavy metal bands in the comments section, and they deleted them. Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" is more relevant now than ever. I heard it on the radio every day, and it never got played before as it was an album track. Not that the genre of music I like doesn't have its garbage as well. I mean...GWAR are somewhat embarassing to me.
Yeah, and I know Mike Savage uses metal tracks as bumper music on his show. He's a poser.
Wouldn't but a Gwar album, but I saw them live several times.Amazing show.
Awww . . . you young'uns! Gramps here was well into plotting his early retirement, although blessed yet again with a couple more young'uns of my own.
Great post, Iwarrior. We have to remember that the media has a long history in this country to swift all the blame on the music and movie industry rather than attacking the real institutional problems that gives us such nihilism in society. When Elvis took Rhythm and Blues into mainstream, they said the same thing about him, “He’s corrupting our children and destroying our country with his jiggaboo music!” Then when Heavy Metal and Puck Rock dominated the airwaves, it was their fault for the social decay and why white kids roamed the school halls in their trench coats and Goth make-up, killing everyone in their sight because of their low-self esteem. Now it’s Hip Hop’s turn, and since the music is dominated by blacks, that makes it even more attackable and easy to paint as a scapegoat to blame for the anti-social attitudes and violence in this country. Violence, rebellion, anti-heroism, sexism, homophobia, machismo, etc., has been in novels, music, movies, and television for decades now—way before Hip Hop—but let’s swift all the blame on Hip Hop which is the birth of this.
The late film critic Pauline Kael once said in her praised review of “Bonnie and Clyde” that once oppressed subcultures are introduced to the masses, these aesthetics will never belong to the private possessions of the minority group again. And these minorities (whether their women, gays, blacks, etc.) are stimulated to where their behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought are conveyed so loudly and accurately, it is not simply something to behold, but is something to be proud of. “Bonnie and Clyde” spoke to the 60s generation on multiple levels because despite the social setting, it had a contemporary mood to it at the time. It was trashed when initially released, too. Much like the James Cagney, Edward G. Robinson and Paul Muni romanticized gangster movies of the thirties exposing the Great Depression immigrant experience, or Elvis’ urban sashaying and popularization of Rock N Roll in the fifties (perhaps the first of a recalcitrant Southerner popularizing an underground movement labeled as “jungle music”), in today’s prevalent consuetude of anti-heroism—now being packaged and sold to the masses as a product—Hip Hop has given the misunderstood counterculture something to embrace and revere. Due to commercialization, Hip Hop has created a formality of hipsternism. Hip Hop is so out of control it’s unstoppable, and I can pretty much say that the only reason all the news stations are focusing so much attention on the genre is that it not only is embraced by black America, but strongly by white America (80 % of the buyers of Hip Hop are white, male suburbanites). Had Hip Hop not drastically changed America so rapidly—in the way folks dress, talk and dance—being revered by many rich white kids, these pundits wouldn’t bring up Hip Hop at all. This has more to do with stopping Hip Hop from effecting white America than it does black America. Thus, the constant reminder that Imus picked it up from urban black America, so it’s not really his fault, but their fault. (Which is the equivalent of me saying I picked up “guinea” from “Goodfellas,” so it’s their fault if I say it hateful to an Italian, not mine.)
Then you have hacks like Joe Scarborough who explains that “black men have been degrading their women for decades and making money off of it,” while totally skipping the point that women have been degraded—by all men of various racial and ethnic backgrounds—not only for decades, but hell, centuries! Snoop Dogg no more degrades women than Larry Flint in his smut publications. And if I recall gangster movies have been degrading women for decades, too, and making money from it. Hell, you had James Cagney in one film where he aggressively grabbed his moll by the hair and kicked her in the behind, literally, to get out of his hotel room—and this was the thirties! Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Fiddy Cent, Ja-Rule, etc., have made countless references to “Scarface,” “The Godfather,” “Goodfellas,” “Casino,” “Mean Streets,” Taxi Driver,” “Pulp Fiction,” etc., in their music and videos; but these pundits will have you believe that it’s Hip Hop where violence, homophobia, machismo and sexism lies—not other formats.
"GWAR are somewhat embarassing to me"
The show is like no other, hands down......
The Jackson/Sharpton / Brwaley / Rap arguement is the number one talking point used by most of the right wing talking heads. Why is it so hard for thme to simply focus on this for what it is and not try to divert blame or attention to some one else.
Secondly, Imus was on live radio and pointed his comment directly at a group of real people. Rap exists on a CD and is played when ever someone wants to hear it.
... and
I'm pretty certain I'd get fired if I said this at my work, so what makes Imus or his "job" any different?
Neil Cavuto is doing what so many of these racist do, with the "you said it so I can say it" defense, which is not the point the fact is the African American community is working very hard at putting these terms out of their lexicon, but that is in the African American community, white America has not earned the authority to use racist comments just because African Americans use them all the time on themselves I'm sorry that is not a defense for Don Imus, If a White Man in the south in a honkytonk bar were to slap a white woman on the rear end, the only people who would be upset would be the womans boy friend or husband, but if a Black man walked into that same bar and did the same thing he would not get out of there alive because every White person in there would beat him to a pulp! why? because he is not apart of that community, so let's stop using the "you say it so I can say it" defense when racist statements by Whites or Blacks or whoever are uttered lets just say that person is wrong period and leave it at that...
LWILCOX,
My impression is that Cavuto is not being racist but rather a pundit, exploring with his guest the use of the term and what is acceptable. I doubt if you've ever heard Cavuto use the term before. I would need lots more examples before I would qualify Cavuto as a racist.
I rather suspect that you don't watch Cavuto, but I could be wrong.
You're argument about white people not having earned the right to use a racist term seems a bit disjointed to me. I would think nobody should use it. My feeling is that it is equally egregious for blacks or whites.
As for me, you're right: I don't watch Cavuto. When I need BS, I go straight to the Bull; and Cavuto is certainly not as high on my list for places to procure sense, sensitivity, or Truth.
What I find the absolute funniest in this whole tragedy is the fact that so many people keep shouting how it's the "right thing to do" by firing him.
Guess what? There's NO moral compass at all going on here. It's money. Pure, absolute, no mistaking it, money. And people try to mask it by saying how reprehensible his words were, while at the same time, keeping what makes money in their pocket. Rap artists make money, ergo, they won't go. Comedians like Carlos Mencia make money, he won't go. When you see groups of people banding together to boycott the record labels and other TV shows, then you'll see a change, but it won't be a change because they've suddenly repented. It will be a change because of money.
You know who the real slaves in this country are? Everyone. Because we're all slaves to money.
"M-1: No, I don't find it hypocritical mainly because of our relationship to the system -- our relationship with our oppressor. Once again, with personal responsibility taken at hand here, we're talking about rappers who are coerced to say things other than what the reality of our community is and Mr. Imus, who obviously has said sentiments that come from his personal beliefs. I think you are comparing apples and oranges here even when you bring the rap community into the question. And once "
There is a racist for you.
Well this is how it goes down. First of all my name is Jabbar. I am a son of a Panther and I am affiliated with the Nation(if you don’t know then you don’t need to know). M-1 is trying to make excuses to sell out. Nobody is tricking you to disrespect our people. After Malcome, Martin and Mandella how dare you! My problem is not with an old white man disrespecting “my sista’s” they have been doing that for over 400 years. My problem is with my own people disrespecting us. M-1 is the stereotypical couscous rapper. Just because you talk crazy about white people does not make you intelligent, stupid. “Brotha’s”, we have to clean up our own backyard before we can start complaining about our neighbors. Hip Hop is Dead.
I think it is time that people speak out against the slander that masquarades as "commentary" or "humor". I am not in favor of censorship but there seems to be no limit to the hatefilled comments made on TV and radio.
Ho is WHORE no matter who uses it.
Im tired of them all, Hannity, O Reilly, Cavuto, Beck, Savage, Bortz,..which one of the Rabid Rightwing did I miss?
Here's a site you can go to: http://patterico.com/2007/03/05/5901/leftist-hate-speech/ to get an idea on the leftists hate speech. I'm posting this so you understand it's not only a republican phenomena but also Dem's too.
Here's a couple of 'em:
Brace yourself for the leftist hate:
It’s racism you want?
and on New York City:
Does it count as “hate” speech if you say you “hate” Republicans?
Back to assassination wishes:
Actual elected officials have engaged in hate speech:
Funny
First off, when Cavuto said "a lot of rap artists who routinely say stuff like you've just said and worse. And, NBC is OK with that, not OK with Don Imus making an errant comment. Do you find that, just as an artist, hypocritical?", neither he or M-1 said the obvious. Rappers who say the word "ho", or any other word for that matter, say it on their records. And it is their (the rapper's) audiance that will hear it being said. When these songs play on (free) radio these days, the word "ho" is bleeped or blanked out. Imus actually said it in front of a mixed audiance... but to me, that's not the issue. the issue is he put the words "Nappy headed" in front of it, which changes everything. If Chris Rock said it, would it have been funny? Probably. But from Imus, it is just in poor taste. But you really want to know how I feel? I really don't care one way or the other. I mean - who really listens to Imus anyway??? Seriously.....
If words are considered as weapons, perhaps certain words should be licensed , just like firearms. Then people could apply for permission or a license to use these words, responsibly of course, and that would solve the dilemma of who can say what and and at what time. People who are not licensed to use certain words would be subject to an appropriate penalty for illegaly discharging these words. This system would naturally require an enforcement mechanism but would end the currently chaotic system of people saying whatever they want to without regard for the consequences. America would be a quieter place under this system
Farrakhan's a Democrat?
As an African American female in society, I belive that now in the media we especially are portrayed as objects to "oogle" at and to be put on display as sex items. These girls on the rutgers basketball team not only are maintaing a high GPA to remain on the team but they are also working hard on the court to be more than just mediocre. Don Imus stated and I quote "...those are some hardcore hoes, some nappy headed hoes...", the rutgers basketball team is for the most part a minority team. He then further went on to say " the girls from Tennessee they all look cute...", mind you the Tennessee girls basketball team is for the most part white. So for some of you people who are blinding yourselves to the racial reality that was imparted by this statement I am not angry at you but I am actually sorry that you refuse to accept the fact that Don Imus said was indeed racist and is now reaping the consequesnces for his own actions.
Where's the rest of the interview?
Can somebody link to the whole thing?
Its much bigger than Hip Hop.. There seems to be no boundaries when it comes to the media. I definitely don't agree with what Imus said, I also don't agree with the negative images spewed from the hip hop community. If they ban Imus, they should ban the music. I have been listening to hip hop since its inception, and honestly, I listen to the same stuff from over ten years ago. Its a dangerous situation, when they force feed the masses, eventually they are going to consume what they see and hear. Everything is over the top, the spit isn't funny, it's pathetic. They need to have the same plans with the media as they do the internet... start from scratch...