Gibson on "TB Man story": Usually it's someone "from the third world" or who contracted "ooga booga fever" in "some godforsaken hellhole"
On the May 31 edition of Fox News' The Big Story, host John Gibson said he was "mesmerized" by what he called "[t]he TB Man story" -- the recent news that American attorney Andrew Speaker traveled by airline while infected with antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis. Gibson stated: "It seems every time a story pops up about somebody who has suddenly contracted some strange or incurable disease, it's somebody who is either from the third world, or was traveling through some godforsaken hellhole, and somehow managed to contract ooga booga fever."
From the May 31 edition of Fox News' The Big Story with John Gibson:
GIBSON: Now "My Word." The TB Man story has me completely mesmerized. I've been doing this for a few years. It seems every time a story pops up about somebody who has suddenly contracted some strange or incurable disease, it's somebody who is either from the third world, or was traveling through some godforsaken hellhole, and somehow managed to contract ooga booga fever.
I got dengue fever in Mogadishu, Somalia, just for instance. You tend not to get dengue fever in Los Angeles or Jersey City, I believe. So when this TB story broke about the guy flying halfway around the world with a super-serious drug-resistant strain of TB, I thought it would be the usual scenario. The guy's in the U.S., he's coughing, he knows he's got TB, but doesn't realize he's got incurable TB, gets on the planes. Headed to Europe, to a must-attend wedding, informed there that he has a bad disease, sneaks back into the U.S. because he knows that's where the best health care is. That's the narrative you expect the story to take.
The other right-wing media mogul you should worry about
Palin's book and Obama's bow: a media week to forget
Media Matters: The Palin chronicles
It's not about facts. It's not about research. It's about the "narrative" and the "story."
This isn't a problem just with Fox, it's a problem with all major media in this country. I was in Atlanta in 1996 at the Olympics when the bomb went off. It was AMAZING to be in the city, walking around, talking with people, getting their feel for how things were going, and then to go back to the hotel and watch national media coverage of it.
I learned then that it's all about "the story."
Let's forward the link to this write-up to the NAACP. I'm sure they would love to know about it.
And Jesse Jackson too. And Nation of Islam.
And Oprah !
MMFA BUSTED!!!! PROOF THEY CLIP AND SNIP TRANSCRIPTS! FOX NEWS WILL DESTROY YOU NOW!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276893,00.html
"Say I got dengue fever in Mogadishu, Somalia, just for instance."
YET MMFA CLIPPED THAT PART OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bruce, the transcript from Fox News says the following:
"Say I got dengue fever in Mogadishu, Somalia, just for instance."
MMFA left out the first word in the sentence, giving some the impression that John Boy actually had Dengue fever.
Already noted, 26 hours before you, with far fewer exclamation points.
finally, an honest troll name. thanks... jack...
Listen to the tape.
He does not say "Say I got dengue fever..."
He says "I got dengue fever...."
There's no "say" in his commentary.
Media Matters wins again.
So, just to reinforce this point....
FoxNews transcript is wrong. The tape is clear, and Media Matters accurately transcribed what he said.
I suspect he meant to say the word "say" at the beginning of that sentence. I suspect that Fox News got the statement from him directly from the teleprompter that Gibson was reading off of. The written words don't always come out the same way when verbalized.
FoxNews was wrong, Media Matters was right. A transcript is not what someone intended to say. A transcript is a transcription of what they did say!
Fox news couldnt destroy a banana split. So they will destroy MMFA only in your dreams.
"That's the narrative you expect the story to take..."
Or, to be more accurate...
"That's the narrative you expect from me and all the other ethnocentric troglodyte morons here on Fox Nothing Channel. You expect, we deliver."
How is this a conservative, or liberal, issue for that matter? It is a very unfortunate story and this idiotic comment by Gibson can only be highlighted as an excuse to Fox bash, apparently.
Oh well,
"this idiotic comment by Gibson can only be highlighted as an excuse to Fox bash, apparently."
Fine by me.
Tommy,
Since you didn't ask, I will.
Why is this here?
Thanks J, I tried to rephrase the old "WITH" question......but no need, you are right.
And we wait for the answer.........
I would say a better question is: why are you always here ?
Perhaps you are not offended when a good portion of the population who still mistakenly believe that FUX News delivers facts and doesn't take the time to follow up or get news from a variety of sources has been grossly misled by Gibson's obnoxious prejudice, and riled up about immigration to boot.
I am offended. I would like voters to be well-informed and then make decisions about who can best run our local, state, and federal governments. I take offence when they are misnformed, especially when they are intentionally misinformed by a party mouthpiece.
A party mouthpiece posing as a "fair and balanced" news channel, that is.
So where's the misinformation in Gibson's statement? It's just fox new bashing which MMFA is entitled to do...but then be honest about who you are and what you do.
Another story contrary to their own mission statement, blah, blah, blah.
It is the low level of discourse on Fox.
Why is this here?
Well, let me see now. An unabashedly conservative talking head from Faux news takes a legitimate news story & puts a spin on it that is unquestionably ignorant, offensive, & racist.
I'm sorry... just what about this story aren't you getting?
I get the story just fine...It's your post I don't get.
I don't agree with anything you said.
Ya fine. A whole lot of us including MMFA disagree. If you dont like the way this site is run, since after all it is THEIR decision and judgement that counts not yours. I suggest you make your own website and dont forget to tell us where it is so we can drop by and tell YOU how to run it.
I will give it a shot: "Ooga booga fever" is a made-up disease (at least nothing turned up when I Googled it) meant to mock a third world culture for their backwards and primitive ways. Since liberals never mock anything, this must be conservative misinformation. Besides, it's racist and Gibson is a white male. But he did once have dengue fever which may explain some things.
Textbook. Like a glove, it fits to a T.
Thanks Bruce, whew.
Thanks for approving. Now can we all ask the republican talking heads to stop using compassionate and conservative in the same sentance? Please?
I'll say it... Since Bruce and Tommy feel slighted by this 'attempt' of MMFA's to slander all conservatives.
This guy Gibson is a (one of many) backward, bigoted and ignorant mouthpieces for Conservative news. That should bother Tommy et al much more than it seems to. Instead, we hear a lot of excuses for why MMFA is not being fair. That's lame.
And, yes Bruce... find me one so-called 'liberal' source that spews such nonsense with such reckless abandon? Name one. This is bigoted BS aimed at comforting so-called conservative, who can snicker and laugh at other peoples' expense. To pretend it ain't so bad is tantamount to supporting it.
You and the rest of the 'skeptics' riding the WITH train are missing the all encompassing issue when it comes to Fox News. The "misinformation" is that Fox News is a news channel, and this is the latest piece of America-rules-and-the-rest-of-world-can-kiss-my-*** drivel to prove it.
In case you haven't figured it out by now, Fox News exists solely to promote conservative policy, big oil, Christianity, our ****ed up healthcare system, and the Republican dream of a two-class society.
News channels arent 24 hour news. Most of the content these days are political opinion shows. So don't hide behind the "news" facade.
So Fox News needed to fill some airtime (I guess 1/2 Hour News Hour can only be rerun so many times), so they had Gibson mock other cultures. Brilliant.
Where do you find left-wingers with this sort of clout in the (ideally) unbiased or, an even better question, in the "liberal" media?
Bruce......
You said: " So don't hide behind the "news" facade."
And I say:
Why the hell not? Fox Noise has been doing that since its inception back in 1996!
Sadly, Fox is here to stay for awhile, so why not fight fire with fire or is that only for the right-wing propaganda machine and their followers only?
"fair and balanced"
If anyone is touting the "news" facade the loudest and hardest, its NON other than the FOX/FAUX/FOXXX/ "news" network.
wow Pete, you've really got down to it. So everything anyone says on Fox, by definition, is misinformation.
Sounds like a rational, well thought out opinion to me.
EHULL--"...So everything anyone says on Fox, by definition, is misinformation."
When someone lies to me once, I usually give them a second chance. After that, I question everything they say. After being lied to so often, how can I know when they're telling the truth?
They advertise; FAIR AND BALANCED. Why would they have to sell being fair and balanced?
It's a slogan. Don't the other networks have slogans? Seems to me I just saw something on this...
Why do any of them need a slogan? My daddy always told me if you gotta tell someone you are, you probably aren't. He meant christians at the time, he called them one day wonders and and sunday christians, but seems like the context pretty much fits anywhere.
Yup. Born again on Sunday, drunk again on Monday.
I can't speak for everyone, but there was always something about "this is the evening news with Dan Rather" that somehow sounded better than any news slogan ever conceived. I wish we could go back to that format, it was at least believable...
Hummm? Avoiding my first question, eh?
EXACTLY Pete. Well said.
Gibson: "Headed to Europe, to a must-attend wedding, informed there that he has a bad disease, sneaks back into the U.S. because he knows that's where the best health care is. That's the narrative you expect the story to take."
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/15/1198/
http://www.ufcw.org/issues/health_care/envyoftheworld.cfm
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
That would be the narrative you expect the story to take, if America were "where the best health care is." Over 20 European countries to choose from with better health care, so "the guy" sneaks back into the U.S.-riiiight!
John Gibson & Fox News are always misinformation because they misrepresent what their actual aims are, claiming to be the champions of truth and the common man when they are really working for: the Bush Administration, Big Oil, Big Pharma, the insurance companies, the Mili-Industrial complex and Wall Street.
Bruce, the transcript from Fox News says the following:
"Say I got dengue fever in Mogadishu, Somalia, just for instance."
MMFA left out the first word in the sentence, giving some the impression that John Boy actually had Dengue fever.
Thanks WK. That does change the context.
Media Matters made a transcript based upon what Gibson actually said. Listen to the tape. He didn't say "say". I expect he left that word out when he was reading his script. FoxNews published his speech, not what he actually said. Media Matters did what they said they were doing. They published an accurate transcription of what he actually said, not what he originally was going to say. FoxNews transcription is not accurate.
Listen to the audiotape if you don't believe me.
Darn - that ruins my sarcasm. Oh well.
I'm pretty sure Gibson has "Dung" fever, a rare brain affliction usually affecting those with large, gaping openings in their cerebral cortex.
Yup! He's a dungflinger from way back.
Sylar got to him!
Gibson is no expert on infectious diseases...but he did contract dengue fever in Mogadishu last night!
Sarcasm aside, MMFA's point escapes me as well. I guess one could s-t-r-e-t-c-h this to various political issues, e.g., health care. However, I see Gibson's comments as simply an episode of xenophobic idiocy. It reminds we why I pretty well avoid all of the tabloid trash commentary.
I think it's misinformation even on the face of it. We had some peculiar diseases a few years ago because some people were around some sort of desert rat? Started in the south west, then spread a little. Then there was that flesh eating virus scare a few years ago. There was the lettuce thing a year ago as well that had everyone scared. And those are just off the top of my head.
These things often start right here in the states. As did this situation. While I'm sure other countries, particularly those with lesser health care infrastructures, suffer from bizarre outbreaks as well, they don't have a monopoly on infections. Not by a long shot. To suggest otherwise, as Gibson did, is ignorance. Or turning a blind eye for a purpose beyond me. Or it's just good ol' plain vanilla misinformation, Fox style.
I think it's misinformation even on the face of it. We had some peculiar diseases...
True enough. Out west, you can take your pick from hantavirus (with ~ a 60% fatality rate), plague and some varieties of viral encephalitis.
Bruce
If you don't get the clear racism of Gibson's ignorant statement... well, there's an old adage that goes: none is so blind than he who will not see.
For God's sake... open your f*cking eyes, man!
Our MEDIA is supposed to stick to FACTS, and not the same Nationalism and Jingoism that is found in the propaganda of every dictatorship wanna-be world power in history.
In Hitler's Germany, every ill, every problem, every "evil" was blamed on "outsiders", or those who were "different". Gibson seems to have learned at the feet of the master(race).
And in case our rightwing chums are scratching their heads (and TOMMY and JETER never disappoint), PROPAGANDA is by definition MISINFORMATION, which is the mission of this site to expose.
It's gravy that in so doing, this site ALSO exposes the ignorance and cluelessness (or willfully obtuse performance) of our rightwing posters, who have another "master" that they ape, Alfred E. Newman. "What, ME worry?"
Earth to Tex, the news media as you define it is all sorts of things - opinion, satire, infotainment, punditry......and on. Your stick to the facts admonition is cute and elitist, but about as ridiculous as it comes.
We just have higher standards chief.
TOMMY:
Fair enough; you are free to define current "NEWS" broadcasting as inclusive of all manner of rightwing propaganda. But when it strays from FACTS into the land of Nationalism and Jingoism ... i.e. propaganda ... then it will be pointed out and rebutted (if not ridiculed).
My point was, and IS, if the NEWS people stick to FACTS, there is no attempt at misinformation. When they propagandize, as Gibson does here, they are fair game for harsh criticism. Get it?
Tex, I disagree that "news" must be limited only to facts. News analysis has long been a part of the news. While it should be based in facts, analysis naturally will have an element of subjectivity.
I personally prefer news that is substantially facts, with little commentary and analysis. However, analysis can provide a useful service of answering "so what?" when the subject otherwise requires additional background that may be impractical to present in a short broadcast. An example is analysis associated with some court decisions, the ramifications of which may not be immediately clear.
I do think that the amount of analysis and opinion has become rediculous. There seems to be much more of that now than simple facts. However, the larger problem I see with journalism is the frequency of shoddy research and deficient reasoning, coinciding with increased partisanship. There is more interest in getting to market first and appealing to a particular audience with a sensational headline.
Thank God for the Net - separating the wheat from the chaff might be a challenge. However, at least we have a source.
CHRISTIAN:
I don't disagree. I will just reiterate, the parts of the "NEWS' that are NOT factual, are subject to criticism, rebuttal, and factual correction.
This applies to all of FOX, all of the Administration's press releases, and MOST of the rest of the rightwing "mainstream" media to include the New York Times, Washington Post, conservative book publishers, "network" TV "news" programs, AM radio, etc, etc.
Tommy
Then concept of a so-called "news" organization sticking to the facts is elitist?
(shudder)
If you listen to this guy long enough, you may come to believe that every single evil in this world stems from immigration. I couldn’t find my keys this morning - those damn immigrants! close the borders!!But, in reality, all this immigration hype is nothing more than a political football to distract us from the real problems in this country - power.Some interesting perspective on this:“The Immigration Scam”http://www.populistamerica.com/the_immigration_scam
Your url nails it! The motive lies in the Repugnant hunger for power, as manifested at least in part by the National Id or equivalent. No wonder FoxLies is so diligent in exploiting every story for some anti-immigration angle, inventing when exploration fails and exploitation demands.
From the url you cite:
"Better jobs and higher wages come from investments in tools, machines, training, and technology that make workers more productive."
Mm...we've been having this great productivity boom since the late '80s and wages (and opportunities) have stagnated. That is because the more invested by big biz in productivity, the less workers they will use, prefering longer hours (via forced overtime and the "independent contractor" scam) as well as the ability to wring every last ounce of underpaid labor time from their staffs.
Unions are needed -- to not only protect the workers on the job but to bargain for working conditions that make it more expensive for employers to not hire more workers.
If he has great medical insurance, then coming back would be a good choice. If he doesn't (or has been turned down in the past for previous conditions) then he would have been much better off staying in Canada, or just about any other nation.
Hey, Scooter, the story said he was a lawyer, he would have the best medical insurance money could buy, outside of our elected officials in WA DC.
Not always true. The is a well known story of an atty from AZ who had insurance, but his medical condition cost him so much money in co-pay that he had to move to Canada.
Also, attorneys are known to be the worst for things like dying without a will, so I wouldn't be surprised if this guy was self-employed and forgot to pay his premium.
So, if he didn't have insurance because he forgot to pay his premiums, whose fault would it be that he had no insurance? Sure, pre-existing conditions can make health insurance costs high, just as living in a hurricance threatened coastal zone or in tornado alley can affect homeowners insurance, just a living in certain urban areas can make the cost of auto insurance high.
If you read between the lines... or am I just seeing this ... he is saying, we don't expect white people to get this ... if it was a brown person, he would have been stopped at the border and not allowed to continue.
OR
It could be that this is a rare occurrence in the US & more apt to happen in a Third World country. But why look for the obvious when you can conjure up a more sinister motive.
Gibson isn't playing the race card here....you are.
If he would have phrased it like that, no problem. He being a bit demeaning though. You can see it how you choose though, but prior Gibson exposure leads me to believe Ashenshard is closer to the real meaning. I could be wrong though.
Monk,
While some of Gibson's remarks in the past could be defined as racist or even borderline racist, that thought did not jump out at me when I read this particular statement.
Certainly when someone has a *history*[as Gibson does] it's natural to scrutinize their every word to look for a hidden meaning.
I'm no fan of Gibson's [though he was a good reporter back during the OJ trial] but there's just not enough evidence here IMO to suggest his meaning had anything to do with race.
Posted this below:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ooga+booga
"Nineteenth century British Army slang for "ugly bugger", used to describe the natives of the Sudan."
Personally when I hear people say ooga booga, I assume they are talking about "native" or Primordial people if that's a better word. Check out old pre intergration cartoons whenever the term Ooga Booga is used. It has a history. Even if this wasn't racist per se it is very demeaning to other cultures and kind of set up the "we're better than them" scenario. So even though it actually was a white, upperclass (he was a lawyer right?) guy he still felt the need to take a jab at other cultures.
Monk, Please reference the 1st definition also.
I gave a link to the whole page where you got your definition. Why did you feel it unnessary to reference the rest of the definitions?
but if it makes you feel better....
"Buttsex, mainly by islanders."
Also why haven't you referenced the other meanings as well? The meaning you used refers the term being used by Islanders, the meaning pertaining to use in american cultureis very different.
You promoted one context of the term while completely ignoring the others, was that fair?
I promoted nothing, I simply offered it as an alternative when it was automatically being discussed here as a racially derogatory term exclusively.
The point is there is another definition, despite it, and me, being called "stupid" repeatedly for bringing it up.
I didn't call you stupid and It's not really fair for anyone to call you that, but you are obviously ignoring the other context of the term. If you acknowledge butt sex as a legitimate definition, why do you deny the other meaning? I can understand why your getting a bit defensive, but your being a bit obtuse if you can't comprehend why this would raise a few eyebrows.
The the other context is valid and I believe it is than there is some truth in what other posters have been saying about Gibson.
Monk,
I respect you because you don't name call and engage intelligently and honestly, I do appreciate that. I don't know if Gibson was being racially insensitive or not. I was simply pointing out that there are other definitions of the word, that's all. I said it was a stupid comment, beyond that, I am not in a position to judge it because I don't know........none of us knows, for sure.
Now his past comments may have merit, but that isn't what is being discussed here.....so it's inappropriate, in my opinion.
I am no fan of Gibson, he is a Bush suckup and a third rate journalist in my opinion. But I don't need to call him a racist to prove anything.
Fair enough. I know your not a bad guy Tommy, I was just trying to point out that there is a reason why some would be a little ticked a Gibson.
If Jeffery Dahmer says he's hungry in the prison chow line and I'm standing next to him I can't erase the fact that the b@stard use to eat people on a regular basis. (Gibson's past staements do color the context of this one.)
On a side note, I'm not above name calling and am guilty of it from time to time, but I really try not to.
I have been guilty of it too. We all have when things get heated, but I try to apologize. You're a classy guy, appreciate our discussions.
THanks, as I have said before I disagree with you on a ton of things, but I have a feeling we'd probably get along in the real world. I'm not an idealogue, I just can't stand BS (from either side). Your life experience lead you to see the world differently than I do and I don't take issue with with that. I also won't hesitate to tell you why I think wrong.
I got no issues with conservatives or republicans (real ones), but I can't stand those damn neocons.
So, Tommy:
You're saying that Gibson wasn't being racist... he was being HOMOPHOBIC?
Yeah... you really thought THIS answer through, didn't you?
Maybe it was oonga boonga I remember. A group of artist's in the early 20th century disguised them selves as visiting foriegn dignitarys to take a tour of a new British battle ship. They used this phase and similar as part on the con. Some of the navy used it as part of their vocabulary for a time after the con was exposed.
Maybe he meant oingo boingo?
Thanks for the link Monk.
Apparently ooga booga has several meanings and one of them [Nineteenth century British Army slang for "ugly bugger", used to describe the natives of the Sudan.] does bring an African person into it.
However Gibson was describing an illness not a person. And he was making the point that it was a Third World country he expected one might contract this disease from. He could have used different wording, but in this case I'm still not seeing a deliberate racist motive.
As I wrote to Bing [below] it's been awhile since I've heard the term, and if memory serves me it was in a 3 Stooges flick, which had nothing to do with Africa.
Which cartoons are you referring to?
I'm only 27, but I have seen them I could not name any in particular, but I have heard the term used with a negative context towards people in my life time. Have you ever seen the old cartoons where the black people are drawn as native with big huge lips and a bone through there nose and they only say things like "Ooga Booga"?
Monk,
I think you just sparked a buried memory!!
I do remember those cartoons--or at least I have a visual memory of them. I don't think they were the Looney Tunes that I grew up with [Bugs, Daffy etc] and I can't recall the ooga booga part...but I'll ask my wife tonight. She has a sharper memory than I do.
That'll be $130 and I'll see you next week for our next seesion.
Deal. My checks in the mail ;-)
Hey Monk can I put you on a retainer so if I forget where I put my keys , I can count on you to jog my memory?
I just called my wife at work. She of course has a vivid memory of these cartoons.
She said the characters were portrayed as Africans, usually holding spears, and had bones in their noses and normally were seen in front of a huge black pot over a fire in which they were boiling water in preparation to cook some White guys. And yes the only words they spoke were "ooga booga".
I'm still not positive Gibson was thinking along those lines, but given his history, and these cartoons...perhaps I've given him credit he didn't deserve.
Guys,
Your flashback spurred mine. I think the cartoon you are looking for is Captain Caveman where he says: "Unga Bunga." Hope that helps
No Jeters wife is right. Although, Captain caveman was the man!
Exactly! Those very same cartoons.
A search turned up some references to an African language (Wolof) with a common phrase that would sound like "ooga booga." However, I seriously doubt Gibson would know that.
The phrase, however, stir up memories of movies - Crosby/Hope Road movies perhaps - with head-hunting Pacific Island jungle natives. My recollection could be wrong. In any event, it does seem to be often used to refer to primitive savages. I wouldn't doubt that image was lurking in Gibson's mind.
I also have a shadowy recollection of teen-movie with a sub-studious drunk hunched over like an ape, lumbering along and belching the phrase...but, of course, that's another topic...
I believe to Looney Toon you're referring to had Bugs trying to talk to a young african native, a bit caricatured. Mel Blanc (spelling?) then when into an awsome rant as the child. The kid later faced off against a mina bird. Twer some very good work.
News flash. We are better then them. You'll say it's racist to believe that. I'll say facts are facts.
Let me say it loud and say it proud. America is better than any third world country.
"Let me say it loud and say it proud. America is better than any third world country."
That's not racist at all. Context is everything, go back and read what people are actually ticked about. Do I personally think Gibson is racists? His actions and words on many occassions lead me to believe he probably has some racist tendencies.
But that won't stop me from watching any of his works, I will still enjoy his early movies, and think highly of his director talents. I found it difficult but believable to watch the passion of the christ. Don't know if this makes me a better person, but I will tell you this - you won't see the same effort to seperate the person from their works in life on the right. I still think the Dixie Chicks have talent, there are veeeery few artists out there who I think are remotely capable of doing a makeover of someone elses cover tune and not ruining it. Landslide was pretty good...
I agree with you, Snoop.
I think that Mel Gibson is a legitimate talent. I admire his skill./ Hell, I admire the skill & talent. He is an outstanding director, & I have no problem watching his movies.
Then again, I have no problem watching the films of Leni Riefenstahl. She is undeniably one of the unchallenged geniuses of the cinema. While she was a well rewarded Nazi propagandist, her ability to frame a shot that stirred you to your soul & to stitch together a compelling Teutonic narrative was unmatched. Check out Triumph of the Will or he documentary of the 36' Berlin Olympics if you want to see pure talent unleashed upon controversial subjects.
Thus far, Gibson's undeniable antisemitism has not shown up in any clear manner in any of his films (though, honestly, I haven't yet seen Apacalypto). A person's politics are really not always the most legitimate criteria for deciding whether their work is fit for public consumption. And that decision is one that I'll always reserve to myself alone. I'll never allow John Wayne's primitive wingnutism ever deter me from appreciating the the genius to be found in Red River or the Searchers.
I was talking about Fox's Gibson not Mel, but I get what your saying.
"News flash. We are better then [sic] them."
Better how? How exactly are we "better" than them? And who exactly is "them"?
Better how? How exactly are we "better" than them? And who exactly is "them"?- clams casino
Better every day, better in every way.They are everyone but us And if a childish declaration of objective superiority doesn't make you feel great, you're an America hater.
I'm comparing nation to nation...America compared to any 3rd world country.
Did you not notice the word "exactly" in my original question? Get past the jingoistic sound byte and tell us what you mean by "better." Better what? Better workers, better politicians, better students, better people, better what? And if you were referring to "us" as a nation, and not "us" as in white people, then why would you give the caveat that people would think what you were saying is racist? And what "third world" people are we better than? All of them, individually or collectively? How about the third world people who later become U.S. citizens? If you're talking about "us" as a nation, then are those people instantly made "better" than everyone in their home country because they're now Americans?
DOn't wait for and answer. Ehull can be hit and run at times.
ooga booga isn't racist? I hear white guys say that all the time. When they are speaking in a derogatory manner towards those with darker skin. Gimme a break. This is almost as bad as Rush telling a black caller to take his ring out of his nose. It's the worst kind of racism.
ooga booga isn't racist? I hear white guys say that all the time.
Bing, where do you hang out that you hear White guys or anyone for that matter use that term?
Seriously I can't recall the last time I ever heard it. But I think I was a kid.
What does your comment have to do with my example?
Well Bing you wrote that you hear White guys say it all the time whenever they are speaking in a derogatory manner towards those with darker skin.
I'm just curious where this might happen. I've never heard anyone in my orbit use that term when making a derogatory remark about anyone.
Don't be so defensive. I'm really just curious.
I'm thinking I remember ooga booga in a 3 Stooges movie. Moe, Larry & in this case Shemp were in a haunted house being chased around by people in scary masks.
Sorry Jeter,
I was saying that tongue in cheek to try and make a point. I don't hear the term that often in daily life.
No problem Bing :-)
Some of my best jokes have been misconstrued here. Some things come across better verbally than written.
I actually hear it a lot, I'm down in texas though. I don't believe texans can be considered the norm anymore, not after hearing Budweiser's latest "real men of genius" song!
http://thefuntimesguide.com/2005/02/stateslivevisit.php
Really Snoop? Geez I must live a really sheltered life ;-) Honestly I haven't heard that term since I was a kid like 1000 years ago!
Of course I live in Massachusetts & we're elitists here :-O
Budweiser eh? Me thinks Snoop wants another Friday party.
Val, where are ya? Packie run...now!
And dont forget Pearlene's wine!
Oh, I am so ready for another! I've got the chips and dips again. And some boddingtons, I like the good stuff!
We've actually got a little fiesta going on in our parking lot for our field staff, and as soon as I'm done in here, it's goat tacos !
I was gonna make a coment that begins with B. Then the memory of a monkey meat kabob in Thailand sufaced. If you ever have to eat one of those. That little red pepper on the end is best consumed by those with some expeience with really hot food.
My food tip of the day from a wholly imaginary series of same.
Eweston, Euhhhhhhh
You've been to Thailand then? 30 years ago I found a deliteful people living in a very strange landscape over there. I have some very fond menories of the place, some scary, Heading down a depression in the back of a Bot bus, the driver is passing another bus, actually a datson pickup, looking ahead in the darkness to see two sets of headlights coming the other way. I may be one of the few people never to see a live snake over there. They are reported to be either constrictors or dam poisonous I haven't heard a lot of good news from Thialand recently which is quite sad.
Probably you don't think much of the entray choice. I didn't find out till later what the meat was. I was not a repeat consumer here and I saw what the pepper did to a friend before I followed his example.
Never been there, but I do love a lot of the cuisine. Hard to find many good places in austin, but there's one place I love to go to get a penang curry.
Speaking of curry, one day I'll have to tell you about my experience with indian food in London. Beef Phaal. Not on the menu, you have to ask for it so they know you know what that means. 3 in the morning is quite rough, I left claw marks in the bathroom wall tile to prove it! ;)
I've mearly heard rumers of curry, the heat from alot of this corner of the culinary world removes most of the rest of the flavor for me.
I had to laugh about claw marks on the tile imagining a reserved reaction from the staff, with a mutter about those bloody colonist's at some point.
London/Briton is a place I would like to visit again.
I had my birria (the goat) and I'm feeling fine, although the little woman has the front door open and the ceiling fan on.
Ah Jeter, your soooo sweet to remember. Bring two, it's been a rough Friday. :-) or -:), like I say it's been a rough one.
Aw Pearlene of course I remembered you, you're too nice to forget :-)
Sorry to hear you're having a two bottle day...I'll tell Val to put an ASAP on that order!
I may be mistaken, but last time I heard Pearl talk about wine, she was saying don't dis the box wine. Pearl, are you sure you ain't asking for a two box day?
Snoopy at this point I'm not real picky about whether it comes in a box or a bottle as long as it's white, chilled and unlimited.
...yeah just because MA was one of the epicenters where the US democracy had its inception you think you're better than everybody else. (smile)
Well Lynn, when you rub shoulders long enough with the Liberal elite in Massachusetts, you start believing you're almost one of them ;-)
Exactly. Point out where Gibson is factually inaccurate.
Certainly Gibson didn't mean to suggest any particular ethnic or racial stereotypes amongst his fair and balanced Fox fans when he said "ooga booga fever" and "third world country". No, not him. Not Fox.
So are a grotesquely swollen head and drastically reduced reasoning capabilities symptoms of ooga booga fever? If so, Gibson at least seems to be speaking from personal experience.
Gibson is a racist. Plain and simple. "Oooga booga" is mocking childish talk meant to mock African culture. Gibson has also called for white people to procreate more in order to save American culture from being overrun with blacks and hispanics.
The man is scum.
According to urbandictionary.com, it also means "buttsex", as a slang used by islanders, as in "death by ooga booga".
Nothing race related in that description, but I don't wanna know what Gibson meant if that was his reference.
That is plain ignorant, Tommy. Your internet research began and ended at urbandictionary.com? Really?
What a joke.
Try this search on google: "ooga booga" + racism. It is an obvious race-based phrase alluding to backwards African natives.
Seriously, you embarrass yourself.
No, you're embarrasing yourself by ascribing a racial angle here where none exists. I was mocking your insatiable sensibilities, but you missed that yet found racism in Gibson's stupid comment.
Nice one.
Foolish.
Here is a great example of where Gibson got this, from a website talking about the black stereotypes in movies:
The Primitive Usually hailing from deepest Africa, the malignant primitive has little on his body except a grass skirt and little on his mind except killing. Traveling in packs, he and his homies dance around campfires with masks and painted faces to rile each other up to a pitch suitable for killing. He tends to utter nonsensical phrases such as "Ooga-booga!" when attacking the heroes and "Aaiiieee!" when he meets his eventual maker. The benign primitive, or "prey", meanwhile is a more solitary figure who either seeks to help the white heroes -- for instance, by acting as a human shield when the malignant primitives attack -- or just waits around patiently to be eaten by a mutated jungle animal.
--------------------
And TOMMY, where do you think Gibson got that phrase? You think it's so benign as to have no meaning at all?
I mean, just purposefully stupid.
Tommy won't respond to this. It makes too much sense and refutes his twisted logic.
Nice one Bing, I already responded and to continue down this race baiting train with Slim is a waste of time........but feel free yourself.
Shorter Tommy: "I was wrong, but it's so damn hard to admit that. I will move on."
I gave you a perfectly legitimate definition of the term, you didn't like it and now you're whining for an apology I was wrong........uh huh, sorry.
I'm sorry I meant; Tommy won't respond in an intelligent manner. On that I was correct. You side stepped it and insulted the poster.
Yep, calling someone "stupid" in every post, and defended vigorously by you, is the ultimate in intelligent conversation.
Have a nice afternoon.
You poor deluded soul. You see things that simply aren't there.
If that ain't the pot calling the kettle...
That's funny. Really it is!
Tommy and Jeter both pretend they have fair arguments. Tommy and Jeter both pretend to respond fairly to other's arguments, and that they make fair and reasonable points themselves.
They delude themselves and almost no one else. Jeter was wrong on the Malkin thread, and was deceitful on the Hannity and Colmes thread, and because I was the person who pointed out his dishonesty and his errors, he then made unfair smears towards me when he was no longer able to sustain a debate.
This comment by Gibson is clearly racist. It's not earthshattering, but that doesn't change the fact that his ooga booga comment could not have had anything to do with a definition that had anything to do with buttsex!
So, I am guessing you would use the term to describe one of your African American friends to his face, right? If there is nothing wrong with the term, feel free to try it out.
Also from Urban dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ooga+booga
"Nineteenth century British Army slang for "ugly bugger", used to describe the natives of the Sudan."
Let me now call for conservative people to procreate more in order to save the American culture from being overrun by liberals.
Make that call, fine. I'd also love to hear a denouncement of Gibson's white purity racism from you.
I prefer to address racism on real instances, not imagined ones such as you apparently do. But keep crying wolf.
Crying wolf?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
You don't think Gibson is racist? Really? You want to deal with it on "real terms", and yet will happily fail to acknowledge that Gibson called for white people to breed more in order to counterbalance minority breeding?
Tommy, you are an embarrassment. On this specific point, you have been proven wrong. To say "ooga booga" has no racial meaning and to base that on your own ignorance and urbandictionary.com is ridiculous.
You have been proven wrong, have the minimal dignity to shut the hell up and stop lying.
The topic of this thread is Gibson's remarks on the TB case, that's all I am referring to.
Any other instances of his mouth are for another thread.
are you the moderator or do you just assume you are an authority of some kind?
No, he's just a fool.
And yes, that name-calling is richly deserved. His "see-no-evil" approach to bigotry is disgusting.
Convenient, to dismiss every other instance of a man's words in order to present a particular example as benign and isolated.
But no worries, Tommy, I found another example of "ooga booga" used as an obvious piece of racism. Go here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=225x1032
And look at that cartoon, and look at what they have the black man saying, in the same panel where the Asian woman says "nong nong bong dong fong."
You look at that, and still try to pretend like Gibson spontaneously came up with an innocuous piece of verbal nonsense.
Or, be an honest person and acknowledge the evidence.
You dismissed the definition I submitted because it didn't fit into your race baiting vulture mentality - that's too bad. Honesty is where you might want to start.
Stupid? Who is embarrasing themselves now?
Have a wonderful afternoon.
Throughout your exchanges tommy's handled himself with dignity and class.
You've defined your posts by name-calling and childish personal attacks.
Just because Tommy doesn't agree with you. Well, neither do I smart guy.
There's nothing obviously racist about Gibson's remarks. If it were obviously racist, Tommy and I would agree with you.
Grow up.
Ehull,
Thanks for your kind words.
How many times has Tommy talked about "context" being important? Numerous times I've pointed out his hypocrisies, provding links so everyone can see the entire conversation, and he still cries that he's being taken out of context.
Yet here, he's taking one definition and saying it could apply to what Gibson is saying, when it makes no sense in that context! That is not only silly by itself, it's hypocritical in light of Tommy's past comments. He is insisting that there's no racial component to this phrase, even though there's a valid definition that is obviously racial, plus it makes sense in the context, plus Gibson has a history of making racial comments. But context and history don't matter because there's another definition of the word which makes absolutely no sense for Gibson to use here, therefore it's just not fair to say that Gibson was being racist. He could have been talking about gay sex, for some inexplicable reason. Right.
And if I recall correctly, Tommy doesn't claim to like Gibson very much. Yet, he posits this ludicrous defense. Why? Is he being a troll, saying something he doesn't mean just to get attention? Is he really stupid enough to believe what he's saying? Did he make an ill-conceived point and is digging himself into a canyon trying to defend it? Is there another option?
Yes, I did say "stupid". To truly believe that it's unfair to label this a racist statement because there's some other definition of the word that can't hardly apply to the situation, one would have to be an idiot. I'm more inclined to believe he's just being a disingenuous jackass, personally, but it's impossible to be certain. Of course you can brush that off as a personal attack, but the reasons for calling his comments "stupid" have been adequately listed, and not refuted in the least by Tommy.
Just because Tommy maintains a calmer demeanor while spouting this idiocy than others do while they're repeatedly trying to drill a simple point into his thick (or disingenuous) skull does not make him right or reasonable.
Sorry, but Gibson saying the phrase "ooga booga" disease in not prima facie racist just because there is some obscure references to butt sex for islanders. He could have said "boogie" fever and guess what, that has racist meanings in the urban dictionary. Why do you think you have to get so many freaking shots when you travel to 3rd world countries? It's because they have disease problems.
In fact, in the urban dictionary the word "disease" means whiners who play the race card.
And that is what this board is filled with -- disease.
Leather, if you're trying to help Tommy out, you're only adding confusion and incoherence to the mix. You clearly don't even understand his "buttsex" defense, which is already ridiculous enough without your nonsensical contribution.
Bottom line, what Gibson said is inarguably xenophobic, and his reference to Somalia makes it crystal clear that his ooga booga remark was meant as a racial slur. Anyone defending those statements is only revealing their own ignorance and prejudices.
I have to second the "say what?" reaction from Clams. Tommy was saying that the bizarre possibility of the term as a reference to anal sex invalidates the argument that Gibson was making a racial comment, not that it proves it. The other definition of the word, which actually makes sense in Gibson's usage, is racial.
If his point is about third-world countries having more disease problems, fine! I don't see anyone denying that. He can address that without pulling "ooga-booga" out of his nether regions. As usual, the person who makes the unnecessary and inflammatory comment is free of blame, but anyone who criticizes him is "playing the race card".
"You dismissed the definition I submitted because it didn't fit into your race baiting vulture mentality - that's too bad. Honesty is where you might want to start."
right back at you Tommy.
Exactly.
So here is the BIG question ---- what kind of person actively plays the role of apologist for a racist?
Hmmmmmmmm
Tommy to be fair you are doing th exact samething to support your point. You picked one of the meanings to support your claims without mentioning any other context that was on the EXACT same page you got your definition from.
(Not and attack, I know your not stupid and can be reasonable at times, but be honest about this.)
Monk,
I didn't make the racist charge, did I? I don't have to prove anything, it's those that are making that charge that hold the burden of proof.....otherwise it's just pure race baiting, nothing more.
"I don't have to prove anything, it's those that are making that charge that hold the burden of proof.....otherwise it's just pure race baiting, nothing more."
Your getting so much grief because people are trying to tell you and provide context for the term and you simply dismiss it as nonsense. You have yet to acknowledge any of the instances provided the show the term ooga booga has a negative context to certain groups of people.
So Gibson's past racist references shouldn't be taken into consideration when discussing his current statement? Tommy, you frequently display a fairly consistent logical rigor to your statements (even when I disagree with you), but you seem to be stretching a point to exculpate Gibson on this score.
I never said that, but his comment here is the topic of the thread......it's not a conglomeration of Gibson's words. When that becomes the topic, then that would be appropriate.
Considering the varying definitions of this term discussed, a racism charge against him for this comment alone is inappropriate.
Tommy:
Ronald Reagan and Dick Cheney did their best to procreate non-liberals, but alas, their manly red-white-and-blue sperm produced gay offspring.
Your plan to populate America with non-liberals by the breeding of died-in-the-wool rightwingers has a serious flaw in that.
But you may be encouraged to know your idea has a colorful history. Adolph Hitler started "the Lebensborn program" to create a blond, blue-eyed master race, whereby selected women were forceably impregnated (raped) by the "right sort" of fathers (the Nazi Heirarhy), the resultant children to be bred as the ELITE of Hitler's 1,000-year Reich.
Just because Hitler didn't make it work, doesn't mean it's not a great rightwing IDEA, suitable for promotion by good rightwingers.
I swear liberals have absolutely no sense of humor.
Sure we do Tommy. Its just that racist terms aren't funny. When you were at the urban dictionary, did you stop reading after the first definition?
Keep up, I was specifically talking about Tex's lack of "getting it" regarding my conservative procreation remark, it was a joke and he took it seriously, obviously. Follow the posts.
TOMMY:
Yes, I remember Limbaugh's depicting of the new "White House Dog", showing a picture of Chelsea. Get it? He considered her unattractive, a dog! That's so damn funny. He was just kidding, of course.
Until he found out that even HIS supporters considered making fun of a teenager's looks was beyond the pale, and then he switched to saying it was a "technical mistake". Of course, he then never told anyone what picture was SUPPOSED to be shown, and how THAT would be "funny".
So, I believe you were trying to be funny. As a rightwinger, you, like Rush, believe that put downs and misogynistic rantings and making fun of the helpless are FUNNY, or SARCASM, or some such excuse. The fact is, you are NOT funny, and cruelty never is. Your master-race suggestion may have brought a mirthful chuckle to YOUR mind, but it is identical to the raping and racist plans of a madman in recent history. It wasn't funny THEN, it's not funny NOW.
Suggestion: Stop trying to be funny. Your worldview, your upbringing, or your psychological makeup promp you to think things which are actually horrors are FUNNY. They aren't. Get word to Rush, too.
Oh, and back in school, when you thought it hilarious to make fun of your classmate's names, and taunt them? THAT wasn't funny, either. Cruelty never is, even when the bully himself thinks it a laugh riot.
More racist stupidity from Gibson.
Go to a black church and say ooga booga. Go into the city and hop on a bus and say it. Better be packing, because someone is going to thump your lame white racist cracker a$$.
Go into a city and hop onto a bus.........are you insinuating that people who ride buses are all black? "Cause that smacks of racism to me........but I'm just sayin'. Since you are so hung up on exact words and holding people accountable for their every word.
Do you care to retract that? Or are liberals immune from such srutinizing of their words? Or is it a joke? Which is it?
Bingo!!!!
"are you insinuating that people who ride buses are all black? "
I don't think he said "all," but given that minorities are more dependent than whites on public transit for their primary transportation, I think there is a fair chance that you would encounter an African-American on a city bus. We could probably find statistics to back that up if you disagree.
You literally have no idea what the word "racism" means, do you?
And I doubt I will get it from your condescending manner.....nice try to rationalize the bus comment Val. Sell it down the street, I'm not interested. If I, or another conservative, said that, you'd be all over it..
Explain to me how referring to buses and black churches as places where one might be likely to encounter black people is racist.
Val, Where did I mention black churches?
As I said, if the comment were "Go to any fried chicken restuarant or the watermelon section of the grocery store", would you be consistent in saying that was equally as racially benign, because the two are identical?
"Fried chicken/watermelon" is a loaded stereotype. Cf. Aunt Jemima, minstrelsy, Rastus and Remus.
"Bus" is just a way of getting around.
So, you're saying that fried chicken and watermelon are loaded stereotypes, but insinuating that black people are poor and ride around on buses, is OK with you?
As long as we have you on record clarifying your distinction, then so be it.
Fried chicken and watermelon are loaded stereotypes.
Some black people are poor and take the bus to work.
Crazy people "ride around" on buses.
Some people eat fried chicken and watermelon.
Do you really want to continue down this road?
Some black people have big lips, large organs of generation, and are talented in sporting activities. All these stereotypes are deeply offensive to many people, including me.
This is your road. I'm just trying to smack your head with the clue-stick.
Val, Never mind - your personal insults and failure to be honest about this is excrutiating. We disagree on what racially stereotypes are, apparently.
We have an honest difference, and I have never insulted you personally, just your ideas.
The idea that anyone who disagrees with you is "dishonest," is, frankly, insulting...
Smacking your head with a clue stick is not insulting, what is it? A term of endearment? Really Val, we have been around and around enough......I said we disagree and I am fine with that.
On to another discussion.....
Well, it wasn't meant to be insulting, but it was definitely in your face.
If personal offense was taken, I certainly apologise.
And given that you're more likey to encounter the "ooga booga" virus in a third world country...
you see where I'm heading with this Val...?
Agreed. You'll never hear an intelligent white person say "ooga-booga" directly to a black person. Anyone who has been around knows the connotations the words have (especially when delivered in conjunction with "third-world country"). And they know what very likely the reaction it would get.
Gibson's and Fox' target customer, however, is the white, conservative male, a fair amount of whom I would bet are aware of exactly what the dog-whistle phrase denotes.
Yeah, this is the point that keeps coming up for me as I watch the contortions people go through to avoid seeing this as a racist comment. Context, in this as in so many things, is all.
Maybe Gibson used "ooga booga" to mean buttsecks. And maybe, by "godforsaken hellhole," he meant Jersey. Or Encino.
Forget Occam's Razor - this one you could cut with Occam's spoon.
I don't know Gibsons intent, but I'm guessing that a "Godforsaken Hellhole" refers to a place that none of us who live in the good old USA would want to live. We are used to our standard of living here. And Ooga Booga fever refers to any number of diseases that one can contract from third world countries that don't have proper immunizations and where these things tend to occur. If you all want to throw the "racist" label on him for this remark, so be it. I'm quite sure he will make Olbermanns top three "worst persons award" for it. It seems excessive to me to dump on Gibson this hard for it.
You state that you "don't know Gibson's intent", yet you nevertheless turn right around and proceed to assert that Gibson's "ooga-booga" was intended to mean "any number of third world countries that have these diseases". To me that sounds like apologetics on behalf of Gibson. To me, "ooga-booga" is a dog-whistle phrase that has connotations Gibson's Fox audience can recognize. I don't know Gibson's intent, but if he meant "any number of third world countries", I think he would have, and should have, said exactly that. I find it quite difficult to believe that "ooga-booga" meant what you claim.
Okay, I didn't recognize it as anything other than a reference to the headhunters on Gilligans Island, which I thought were fictional characters created by the Hollywood left. So I guess it went over my head. The FOX viewers, which I'm not one of, must have their manuals turned to the right page and they all got the "real" meaning.
I LIKE the notion of cutting it with the spoon! Neat turn of phrase!
No I'm not insinuating that people who ride buses are all black. You inferred that. I think it's likely you will have a black rider or two on a bus in the inner city. That's not a derogatory comment. I know you can't discern between a comment that involves race and a comment that is actually racist. So I shouldn't be surprised. What motivates you to write what you do is beyond me. Why would you assume I am hung up on exact words and holding people accountable for their every word? It's not only inaccurate it's irrelevant to the conversation. You're the one who likes to attack one item from a post to avoid talking about the whole post. Instead of trying to find some fault in a comment perhaps you should address the content or answer the question.
Bing,
You can sit there and accuse me of coddling racists and when I ask you to explain your bus comment, you get all indignant and accusatory.
If you can't stand the scrutiny of your own words, then don't go criticizing someone else. Normally we have good intelligent discussions, and I have always respected your opinions, but when you start falsely summarizing mine or saying I don't respond because I am a coward or something, I wonder if my original impression was wrong.
Never called you a coward. And I gave an accurate description of what I have observed from your posts. I gave you an explanation of the bus comment. It was quite plain and to the point and I fail to see how it would be insulting. You rarely address the points being made but attack a word or phrase, accusing me of being hypocritical or dishonest somehow because I alluded that you would probably encounter a person on a city bus who would take exception to someone who would use the phrase in question. Racist comments and comments that involve race are not the same thing. It's simple. Use race in a derogatory manner and it's racist. My comment was not meant in any way to be derogatory as I don't think using public transportation is demeaning.
Bing's statement was not even remotely racist. Tommeh, please understand what Bing said earlier -- comments regarding race and racist comments are two different things. The inability to separate the two is bewildering to me.
Really, so if I said "Go down to a fried chicken restaurant or the watermelon section in a grocery store", I would get the same consideration as Bing's comment...........from liberals?
Tommy, an experiment for you:
Your example makes no sense. The point is Bing generalized about black people in buses, as would the comment about the restaurant and the watermelon section - it would be the same.
Val, you're just being intellectually dishonest here if you won't acknowledge they are identical. They are, and you know it.
Generalising is not racism, Tommy. If it were, why then would it be less offensive to talk about black churches than about buses?
Again, it's clear that you have no idea what racism is. And that's no big deal- but it makes it kind of hard to take when you lecture the rest of us about it.
Val, You are only embarassing yourself here, here is your last chance to at least save some face, anonymously, for yourself.
So generalizing about racial stereotypes is not a form of racism? Are you seriously standing by that comment?
No, because I didn't make "that comment." I said generalising, in and of itself, is not racism. I said nothing about stereotypes.
Oh for pete's sake, our entire discussion is about racial stereotypes. What do you think we were talking about when we said generalizing?
Tommy, not to get off topic but did Jeter say you could live with him if California falls into the ocean?:-)
Tommy
You may not be a committed racist...
But you are certainly an ENABLER of racism. I've yet to see a racist discussed on this website that you will not be willing to defend with all the energy that you can muster. You REALLY need to take a hard inward look.
Jesus, Tommy, urban areas ("go into the city") tend to be more populated by black people than other areas. There are fewer black people in executive or other higher-paying jobs than white people, even by percentage, is that not true? So they are less likely to own cars (a major expense in crowded New York, for instance) or take cabs every day, right? Therefore, aren't you likely to see a fair number of black people on any bus?
Where is the racism here? Where is the stereotype? It's simple statistics.
Hell, didn't Spike Lee make a movie about the "Million Man March" called "Get on the Bus"? If buses are supposed to indicate some racial stereotype, then Spike Lee must be prejudiced against black people.
"Val, you're just being intellectually dishonest here if you won't acknowledge they are identical. They are, and you know it." -- Timmeh
My 12-yr-old daughter can see the difference. Once someone claims that the examples are identical, then it is time to point to the nearest TV, yell "Look, isn't that Jessica Simpson?" and sneak away.
So, is anyone going to seriously continue to discuss this with some bored child?
Tommy, I don't want to get in the middle of this but Val's example was valid.
If you walked up to me as a white man and ask me where the bus stop was I would tell you. If you as a white man asked me where the watermelon and chicken stand were I would definitely look at you funny. There could be many more reactions but a white man asking a black person randomly where the chicken or watermelon stand is would raise a red flag. Just mt 2 cents.
Pearlene,
For the record, that was not the context of Bing's original post at all.....that was Val's attempt at a totally unrelated scenario.
Are you comfortable with the original comment "Go to the city and hop on any bus and say it"? Do you not think that was racially stereotyping black people?
Honestly, yes and no.
It doesn't raise a red flag with me the same way watermelon or fried chicken does. I took it to mean you would more than likely encounter black people on the bus. In other words I you are looking for a wide range of races, public transportation would be the likely source.
If the comment was made by say Rush I probably would consider it racist cause most of his comments have racial overtones.
Thank you for your honesty, and that is all I was saying. If Rush had that made that comment, he would be skewed, rightly so, for making a racially charged stereotypical comment. I was just asking Bing, who I don't believe is a racist, to hold his words to the same standards as anyone else.
I appreciate your input and your candor.
What I got from that last sentence of Pearlene's is that context matters. When someone with a history of racist comments says something, it is taken in context.
I feel this subtlety is lost on you, but I submit that racism could be compared to pornography in the classic formulation: "you know it when you see it."
You're amazing. So, now it's not the comment itself you want to argue, it's the context or the person making it? All the while you haven't even mentioned who said it, but rather how buses were not racially stereotyping at all, focusing on the comment alone......but since Pearlene was honest enough to say the comment would be offensive to her based on who said it, now you want to jump on that bandwagon.
Come on Val, this is transparently ridiculous, even for you.
Bandwagon? I simply agree that context matters, though I think that point is entirely separate from the point I was making above.
She did also made the point that the bus comment does not carry the same charge as the "fried chicken" reference you (not me) introduced. I don't really see how you think that somehow bolsters your position, which I thought was that the two comments were identical, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead.
It's been clear for a while that you're oblivious to the idea that context matters, but after reading through this entire thread I think it's obvious that what Val said is true: You literally do not understand what racism is. And yet you're compelled to comment on the subject time and time again, seemingly without ever learning a thing. You pretend to debate these topics, but your only goal is to distract and defend white conservatives (even those you disagree with) from charges of racism. And then when a person of color brings up race you call it race-baiting. What you've demonstrated here today is that you don't even know the meaning of those words.
Come on Tommy, we all know deep down in your heart you just want to spew racial epithets with impunity and pat yourself on the back for being "politically incorrect."
Black folks make up about 13% of the population. As a rule of thumb, one could expect 13% of a random transit bus to be made up of black folks, perhaps more, perhaps less.
This being the case, the bus in question would logically contain SOME black folks, so when "Oooga Booga" was directed at the 13%, those 13% would probably kick 100% of your ass. In any setting, it is a racist and grossly insensitive remark ... and would probably be covered under the "fighting words" exception to assault laws.
Excellent consideration of the topic, leading to the same inevitable result as those who rushed through to that 100% end; but here, much of the pleasure was in the journey through the 13% toward the "fighting words" exception.
Great example. Now, if anyone does not get the difference (and I can't imagine who on this board could not), then can we safely assume they are:
a) racist themselves, or
b) void of logic
For those who don't (and again, I'd be amazed) please let this forum to to grown-ups. Thanks.
I no longer let people mention 'the conservative media' without speaking up. And I have to speak up when our health care is described as the best. It is by far the most expensive, but private profit eats up the health care dollar leaving us with a low system rating. Evaluations vary, but what I have seen places us in the mid twenty spot.
ooga booga fever?
Does that turn us all into 70's Disco stars or something?
if you're thinking you're too cool to boogieboy oh boy have I got news for youeverybody here tonight was boogin'let me tell you, you are no exception to the moveget on up on the floor'cause we're gonna boogie oogie oogietill you just can't boogie no more (boogie)boogie no moreyou can't boogie no more (boogie)boogie no morelisten to the musicthere's no time to waste let's get this show on the roadlisten to the music and let your body flowthe sooner we begin the longer we've got to groovelisten to the music and let your body movenow get on up on the floor'cause we're gonna boogie oogie oogietill you just can't boogie no more (boogie)boogie no moreyou can't boogie no more (boogie)boogie no morelisten to my base hereget down, boogie oogie oogieget down, boogie oogie oogieget down,boogie oogie oogieget down.boogie!
Gibson = racist. End of story. I could subject 100 of my friends to his rants, and every one of them would wonder how someone so racists is allowed to have a pulpit. If you do not think he is racist, then you are very very different in some basic way, i.e., racist yourself, not able to handle any form of logic, or simply a conservative who can only think via listening to Fox.
Saying Gibson is not racist is like being a member of the Flat Earth Society, where you have to wonder if anyone involved is serious. Just how twisted does you argument have to be after listening to any of Gibson's rants?
Furthermore, why does anyone allow some to hijack these conversations? It is extremely rare that they have anything logical to say, and using logic with them is a waste of time. Please read the threads aloud and try not to imagine a third grader responding with "I know you are, but what am I?"
Don't forget Gibson calling Iraqis "knuckle-dragging savages".
I'm sure Gibson and O'rielly have had profound thoughtful conversations about the challenges to the White power structure, and White privilege in-between discussions about the ooga booga fever and third world hell holes. What’s the matter with these Fox guys? I actually felt sorry for John McCain the other day he appeared helplessly trapped in The Factor world where cement blocks are routinely spun by a delusional host.
This "ooga booga" thing has been running through my mind all afternoon. I believe there was a popular song around the time of "The Flying Purple People Eaters" that contained those or very similar words. I keep hearing bits of the melody in my mind, but have not be able to put a title to it, which would help in tracking it down.
On a related note, KO, 202 posts by Midnight EDT, a clear candidate for "Worse, Worser, Worst Person, don't you think?
Oscar, I was a little kid when that song came out. I've tracked down the lyrics for you, but it wasn't ooga booga in the song it was: aboop boop aboopa lopa lum bam boom
Here's a link to the lyrics:
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/bopper-big-purple-people-eater-lyrics.html
Nope, I knew it wasn't "Flying Purple People Eaters", another song about the same time, just can't tie it down. There were several around that time, that by today's standards would probably be considered racist, because they portrayed some peoples as less than the "ideal". Going to have to dig through the old 45s and 33 1/3 (maybe even go back to some 78s, remember those?) It will probably come to me at an odd time (like 3 am or in the middle of something totally unrelated). Thanks for the search.
Hi Oscar, this isn't ooga booga, but it's so close.
"The Oogum Boogum Song" by Brenton Wood was out in 1967 so it may not be the song you're thinking of. I'll keep digging because I'm curious too!
Here are the lyrics:
http://www.er.neoxer.com/lyrics/brenton.html
If you want to hear a sample of the song here's another link:
http://www.amazon.com/Brenton-Woods-18-Best-Wood/dp/B0000034K6
Do you remember the song "Ahab, The Arab", it was out in the early 60's. It was a huge hit by Ray Stevens. Just an example of a song that would probably never be played on the radio today.
Thanks for the help, I still think there is another one out there, just going to let in mull around in the recesses of my mind, so I don't spend hours searching for it on the internet. The weather is too great to spend the daylight and early evening at a keyboard and monitor. Have several old vinyls stored somewhere in the house, may look through them this evening, just to satisfy my curiousity (sp?, doesn't look right).
Yeah, I remember Ray Stevens, kind of dates me, I suppose. There were a lot of songs that we listened too in the late 50s, 60s and early 70s that would be taboo today because they would offend someone, usually someone looking to be offended.
Again, thanks for the help, If I come up with something, I will post it here or on a future Gibson link (I'm sure he will stick his foot in his mouth again sooner or later in a manner that will get MMFA, or their monitors, attention. Got to go enjoy some more of the sunshine.
Seems like a lot of wing-nutz are trolling hereabouts now that MMFA has made spill-o's enemies list (for quoting his verbal diarrhea accurately). Boy it's good to see these azzwipes shown for what they are... THANK YOU MMFA!
One of the worst pandemics has been traced back to Kansas - the influenza pandemic of 1918. Our soldiers spread it far and wide during WW1.
When the E. Coli problem with spinach came up last summer, many pointed to the Mexican migrant workers. Turned out, it came from the factory cattle lots (which anyone that knows anything about this kind of E. Coli already knew) where they have been feeding them too many antibiotics and proteins which fosters overgrowth of that particular bacteria.
This assumption that it's only those countries with "darker" people that have dread diseases is another instance of arrogance. What a mistake.
I am still astonished that the man that had TB wanted to come back to our health care system. Doesn't he know we rank 27th or lower?
We rank 27th.
Ok. So if you were sick, and I mean, really sick, where would you want to be?
To infer that third world countries don't have serious problems with diseases that have been all but wiped out here in the US is just wrong.
Malaria and TB are just 2 such examples.
If I were sick, and in a European country where my healthcare insurance would cover me or the nation's coverage would carry me, I'd stay right there.
If I were healthy, and had to worry about future medical needs, I'd rather be in the #1-#26 country for health care over staying in the 27th best country for health care.
No one said that we had to choose the USA or an African country.
Remember, this guy was in Greece and Italy and flew back to Canada before he reentered the USA.
That black-n-white thinking caught you again, numbskull. There are more choices than here or Africa!
What a load of bull.
People from around the world flock to the USA when they need good healthcare. You'd stay in Europe? What a crock.
Why do you hate America Sue?
Another example of paranoia, and a bonus example of black-n-white thinking.
People from the countries who have the best health care do not flock to the USA to get treatment they can get in a better way from their own countries! Why would anyone leave better healthcare to come to worse healthcare? Of course there are people who come to the USA for healthcare. Do you really think that there are no countries besides the USA where there are hospitals which know how to treat drug-resistant TB?
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00341601?order=2
Countries that ranked higher than the USA that the lawyer visiting Greece could have gone to?
Greece, France, Italy, Spain, Austria, UK, and Canada!
Remember, the US Government, and the CDC, told the TB guy to not travel. If the only treatment he could receive was here, they would not have demanded he not return. He could have gotten treatment elsewhere. He was not supposed to come back to the US. It was not because they wanted him to die. It's because they wanted him to pose a risk to as few people as possible and get treatment where he was. He'd already exposed too many people.
MMFA BUSTED!!!! PROOF THEY CLIP AND SNIP TRANSCRIPTS! FOX NEWS WILL DESTROY YOU NOW!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276893,00.html
"Say I got dengue fever in Mogadishu, Somalia, just for instance."
YET MMFA CLIPPED THAT PART OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- jackuoff1923 / Saturday June 2, 2007 05:37:32Mr. Reacharound, this has been noted (if you'd bothered to read the other posts) and probably not corrected due to it being the weekend.Simmer down.
If you notice, Media Matters didn't provide a link to the transcript. They made a transcript themselves from what he actually said. It's accurate.
I know you were trying to give Media Matters the benefit of the doubt, but they really don't need it here. They did nothing wrong, actually. Apparently Gibson meant to say the word "say", as shown by the FoxNews transcript, but he didn't say it, and you can hear that in the audiotape.
I didn't listen to the audio- Didn't think it was even significant enough to check as a typo, but thanks.
I thought that, rather than it be a nefarious plot by Media Matters, it could have been a simple transcription error. That's why I listened to it. I agree that the word "say" doesn't change the meaning of what he said.
Yes, this was already brought up. But in your over-excited rush to declare MMFA "busted" you've failed to realize that missing the word in the transcript doesn't change the point of this article at all, nor does it change the point of Gibson's rant. All it tells us is that Gibson didn't really contract dengue fever in Somalia, which isn't really much of a shocker, because, for a racist like Gibson, a trip to Africa is probably at the very bottom of his list of things to do.
because you arent racist or prejudiced against middle aged conservative white men right? hypocrite.
No, because you're wrong.
Media Matters didn't miss anything.
FoxNews supplied a copy of the original script Gibson had.
When Gibson read it, he did not say the word "say". Listen to the audiotape.
You're wrong. Media Matters got the transcript right. FoxNews published what they thought he was going to say, not what he said!
Wow, this is like arguing with an even more primitive version of Tommy--a prototommy. All of you defenders of racism always resort to the same completely illogical and offbase accusations of hypocrisy, and the same idiotic false equivilancies. Bleed for the poor oppressed middle-aged white Christian male all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you are flat out wrong. The only thing you "busted" was your credibility.
This guy, along with rightwingers in general, does hate people. He, and others like him, are racist.
Liberals hate the behavior. Rightwingers hate the people.
They then assume that everyone else must act the same way, and hate people too, and be racist too. If you hate Gibson's racist behavior, in his mind it cannot be because you hate the behavior. It's got to be because you're a racist, and you hate Gibson because he's a powerful white guy!
They just don't get it.
This has to be the funniest postings I have ever seen on MMFA. Tommy I give it up to you to be able to do what you do, you must drink a lot of alcohol through out the day just to stay sane. I have said it before and I will say it again because it is usually all I can come up with after reading these postings...you liberals are funny!P.S. I'm surprised someone hasn't brought in the caveman aspect, I feel like this is a bad Geico commercial
"I have said it before and I will say it again because it is usually all I can come up with after reading these postings...you liberals are funny"
Well, obviously that's all you can come up with, since you didn't even attempt to address the substance of the post. If you're going to try and defend Jackoff, then do it. We'll wait patiently to see if you can come up with anything more convincing than, "You liberals are funny."