Jon Stewart: "[S]ome idiot from Fox ... call[ed] me a phony"
On the August 15 edition of Comedy Central's The Daily Show, host Jon Stewart briefly mentioned comments that, as Media Matters for America has noted, John Gibson and his Fox News Radio show's executive producer made on August 10 and again on August 14, mocking Stewart's emotional on-air reaction after the 9-11 terror attacks as "phony." On The Daily Show, during an interview with Stephen F. Hayes, author of Cheney: The Untold Story of American's Most Powerful and Controversial Vice President, (HarperCollins, July 2007) about Hayes' characterization of Vice President Dick Cheney, Stewart said that "there's a real feeling in this country that your patriotism has been questioned by ... people in ... very high-level positions. Not fringe people." Stewart continued: "I myself had some idiot from Fox playing the tape of me after September 11th -- very upset. And them calling me a phony ... because, apparently, my grief didn't mean acquiescence."
Hayes responded: "Look ... I think we can agree that ... we shouldn't be questioning other people's patriotism. On the other hand, I think it's totally legitimate to talk about different ways of handling the war on terror."
From the August 15 edition of Comedy Central's The Daily Show:
STEWART: Why didn't 2002/2003, Dick Cheney come out and say to the American people, this is gonna be chaotic. We went in -- the reason we didn't go in before was, we knew the issues. But they didn't. Person after person after person in the administration said, "It's going to be, like, a million dollars --
HAYES: Yeah.
STEWART: It's gonna take like a week."
HAYES: Yeah.
STEWART: These guys -- "Baahh."
HAYES: I know, I'm not sure --
STEWART: That's, that's --
HAYES: I'm not sure they said that.
STEWART: They came out person after person -- why -- that is the, the essence of, of people's anguish --
HAYES: Yeah.
STEWART: -- is they feel that they've been --
HAYES: I mean, I'm not sure they said exactly that, but I will say that -- that when I asked him -- when I --
STEWART: I was using hyperbole and also a funny accent. But the essence of their argument was, this isn't going to be a problem.
HAYES: Yeah, when I asked him about that it was interesting because, he did, I mean, as you've pointed out on your show numerous times, he's not somebody who likes to admit mistakes, and one of the things he did say was, we underestimated, obviously, how difficult it was going to be. He also spoke to, to the Coalition Provisional Authority and said that that was not the right way to have handled post-war Iraq.
STEWART: Then stop making the rest of us feel like idiots when we question their strategy in the war on terror. And stop making the rest of us feel like -- and I don't mean you, I mean them.
HAYES: Right.
STEWART: I think that they've gone -- they, they've seemingly gone out of their way to belittle people. You know, he's actually literally come out and said, "If you don't elect us, we might get hit again." That to me, I -- I can't jibe the portrait you paint of the steadfast leader with the fear-mongering, not-bright guy that I've seen.
HAYES: Yeah, but I mean, no, really -- I mean isn't it that case that, I mean, that's essentially what this debate has been about, the political debate has been about since 2001?
STEAWART: No. They keep saying we don't understand the nature of this war. And critics keep saying, we understand the nature of it. You've been doing it wrong.
HAYES: Right, so why is that -- what's the, what's the quality of difference there?
STEWART: Well, no the, the difference there is, we're not calling them traitors.
HAYES: I don't -- yeah, but I don't think that the administration has called anyone a traitor. When has it happened? I mean, I'm serious. When has that happened? When has that happened?
STEWART: Let me say this. I -- I think that there's a real feeling in this country that your patriotism has been questioned by, by people in, in very high-level positions. Not fringe people. You know, I myself had some idiot from Fox playing the tape of me after September 11th -- very upset. And them calling me a phony --
HAYES: Right.
STEWART: -- because, apparently, my grief didn't mean acquiescence. So, I, I, I think that that's -- it's a fair point to say --
HAYES: Look, look I think we can agree that, that we shouldn't be questioning other people's patriotism. On the other hand, I think it's totally legitimate to talk about different ways of handling the war on terror --
STEWART: I agree with that.
HAYES: -- and then for them to make their case.
STEWART: If, if they were to make their case on that, I'm saying to you, I think we'd have a fair argument and agreement on how to move forward. They haven't done that, and the evidence that they haven't done that is, he made that case in 1994, he knew those were the problems, and they never brought it up in the run-up to the war.
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Just watched this whole segment on the Comedy Central site, and he got pretty passionate about the whole thing of patriotism. Got to say, that the US is really lacking some balance over the issue of patriotism, although to be fair as an Englishman I'm a little more reserved over announcing my pride in my heritage than you guys seem to be. This is not because I'm ashamed of it, but our way is not to be shouting it from the rooftops every chance we get.
Good point about shouting from the rooftops.
I've learned to be very wary of people who pronounce loudly something about themselves. It generally means that they have deep doubts about the very thing they proclaim.
I agree. The loudest drum is the hollowest.
Remember the old quote. The more he professed his honor the faster we counted the silverware.
Generally speaking, the people shouting the loudest are using it to beat their political opponents over the head. Many of the George Bush sycophants mistake jingoism for patriotism.
I'm not sure who you mean by "you guys" or exactly what you are referring to with regard to patriotism. It is a commonly used tactic of the rightwing in the US to attack anyone who disagrees with them as a traitor or, more subtly, "unpatriotic." Do you think Jon Stewart would be talking about patriotism if he had not been unfairly criticized? What if you were to put yourself in his position? If you were in the public eye and someone called you a traitor would that concern you? If London rather than NYC had been attacked, and you had expressed grief about it, would you respond to someone who called you a phony?
I should have added: And this tactic is meant to shut people up, and to stifle criticism or even an open discussion of issues. Jon recognizes this and that is part of why he reacts as he does (and I think others do as well).
I have not had the good fortune to know many Brits but I do know one very well, and I can tell you that if someone tried to stifle him when he was expressing strong views, the last thing he would do was to ignore it.
What's that saying? Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel? That's more or less been the tactic on this side of the Atlantic. We might wave the flag more than Brits, and Conservatives tend to wear the flag on their sleeves, but for the most part here, we all feel like we're patriots.
This administration, though, has used divisiveness like a wedge in the last seven years to split this country and then pit the populace against one another. Usually it came down to attacking one's love of country, our soldiers, and so on. It was the argument that supposedly trumped all others about this ill advised war.
Maybe one of the worst things that occurred in this country during the last sevenish years is that we now have to look to 22 minutes of comedy every night on a comedy network to hear any difficult questions asked of anyone linked to this administration.
Americans are the most patriotic country in the world. That is not a strength, in my opinion. To quote Howard Zinn, patriotism is the belief that your country is better than any other because you were born there.
You really have to understand American patriotism if you want to understand how the US ended up in Iraq. I spent a year in Germany where to wear a German flag on your T-shirt is considered bad taste. Europeans and Americans have a completely different view of patriotism.
I spent a year in Germany where to wear a German flag on your T-shirt is considered bad taste. Europeans and Americans have a completely different view of patriotism.
Have you ever watched a World Cup soccer match?
The fans are wild & patriotism rules! And they are decked out in the colors of their respective flags. And waving flags too.
Nothing wrong with being patriotic, it's when governments use patriotism to promote a reason to attack other nations, like Bush & Co. did. Then attack the patriotism of anyone that doesn't agree with them.
Try watching soccer or the olympics or any other international sporting event in my family and you will have no doubt that patriotism is alive and well in the citizens of other countries. And forget about the displays of flags...even the beach towels have 'em...and I patriotically cheer for the US to the end...even when they are getting their butts handed to them (-;
Hey LostLogic,
I even got caught up in Curling [a sport I knew zilch about] while cheering on the USA team.
Jeter, I agree. When I went to Ireland years ago, the very last song every single bar played was the Irish national anthem. EVERYONE stood, the lights were turned on, and that is how they sent everyone home. I actually miss the fact that at one time TV signed off to the national anthem with the video of the flag waving. I don't know if I'd blame that on the Dems, probably more likely big business, but I certainly do miss it.
I actually miss the fact that at one time TV signed off to the national anthem with the video of the flag waving.
Snoop I remember that too, guess we're showing our age ;-)
In the Detroit area, the local CBC (Canadian) station still signs off with their anthem. All local U.S. stations never sign off. As long as there is an infommercial to be played, there is a station willing to play it.
Yeah, and how old do you have to be to remember this:
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds...and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of...wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew.
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
They played that every night on our local stations, just before the national anthem, and showed great footage of Air Force jets.
I have too agree. "High Flight" rocks. It's an indelible memory, really. Not like the kind of cheapo rally 'round the flag imagery provided by "Fox and Friends."
I actually miss the fact that at one time TV signed off to the national anthem with the video of the flag waving. I don't know if I'd blame that on the Dems, probably more likely big business, but I certainly do miss it.
Very few TV stations sign off any more. Most of them run 24 hours a day.
I was in an Irish/Soul band (not quite The Commitments, but we played Motown songs with jigs and reels in the middle of them) that played in Ireland about 8 years ago. We learned the Irish National Anthem so we could play it at the end of the night when the pubs we were in closed. That impressed them very much.
funny story about that snoopy im native irish born and raised in limerick lived in st louis for 5 years married a beautiful american woman .I due to lack of education and foresight in my youth im a nightclub bouncer i used to work the door of a dueling piano bar in st louis when they played the national anthem about 2/3rds of the bar sang but remained seated yet when they played proud to be an american by lee greenwood or that ridiculous boot in your ass song the entire bar stood and sang by the way the playing the national anthem at the end of the night in ireland unfortunatly is dieing out
Patriotism is not a strength? Well, thank God we have a different view of patriotism here than in Europe, and why we are not Europeans, but rather Americans.
There is nothing weak about love of country and being proud where you live. I would hope all Americans feel that way, considering we live in the greatest country on the planet, Sorry if you feel differently.
Patriotism also includes defending the greatest country in the world from those who seek to harm us or the principles that make us great...
...even if it means defending it from a rogue President who lusts for greater political power.
My comments were not about the definition of patriotism, but rather I was responding to the poster's cavalier attitude towards it's worthiness.
I neglected to mention that I do agree that patriotism is a great source of strength.
My comments were not about the definition of patriotism, but rather I was responding to the poster's cavalier attitude towards it's worthiness.
How patriotism is defined determines whether its expression is worth anything. Mistaking jingoism for patriotism, which the W administration does on a daily basis, is worthless. When W had the chance to defend his country, he deserted. When Cheney had the chance to defend his country, he grabbed every deferment he could get his hands on.
My sense is that too many confuse patriotism with jingoism, which I think this poster did, as well.
Patriotism is a fine and honorable thing. Jingoism causes problems to an incredible degree, and should be neither honored nor cherished by anyone who values a functioning, sane society.
You see, Tommy, that's the problem with the world's view of America. We like much of your culture, and I've known many fantastic people from the US--but calling your country 'the greatest in the world' tends to get under many peoples' skin. I'm from Canada, and we have a strange relationship indeed. Many Canadians will say they love much about America, but they will stop short of calling it the greatest country in the world. I think we kind of tire of hearing that. It's fine to love much of what you have, but advertising patriotism loudly can be annoying. Having said that, I know many Canadians will wear the maple leaf when thay travel, but this is mainly to prove that, while the US and Canada are good neighbours and friends, we are not exactly alike. I know the maple leaf wearing habits of Canadians abroad might bother some Americans, but it is not meant to offend, nor is it a strong show of patriotism. In any case, I agree with you on some points, and feel anyone questioning another person's patriotism ought to be ready to back their claims to that person on neutral ground.
Well then I guess Zinn needs to invest in a good dictionary. Patriotism has nothing to do with issues of superiority but rather loyalty and love of country. I also think it is bunk that other countries don't practice the evil art of patriotism...I don't know what you have been seeing but I see flag waving all over the place and loyalty and love for country being expressed all over the world. Trying to turn true patriotism into a bad word is a stupid as the right trying to make liberalism a bad word...these distortions of the meaning of the words have no basis in reality. There is nothing wrong with patriotism.
I think patriotism is a lot like alcohol;some is healthy, more makes you feel great, and too much makes you a revolting mess. When one gets to the point of saying something like "love it or leave it" or "but we can do that...we're America!", then it's time to call a cab.
I would add to that it's not always a matter of degree, but circumstances as well that determine whether patriotism - or loyalty - is vice or virtue. To borrow your analogy, drinking any amount of alcohol with some medications can be a bad idea.
To continue that analogy - sometimes you wake up four or six years later realizing you have really managed to put yourself in a really sticky situation wondering what the heck you were thinking!
Very nice analogy.
Does anyone know the difference between patriotism and nationalism? It's an interesting question.
Lost, I think the point was that so few people really have a good grasp of our nation's history, and so few understand how our government works or how a Democratic Republic is supposed to function, that for the majority of the population "Patriotism" means nothing more than waving the flag at Fourth of July parties, sticking a Support Our Troops magnet on cars, and loudly proclaiming that this is the Best Nation on Earth Just Because. And for too many, it also means believing everything that comes out of the President's mouth and Obeying because he's the President. In short, a lot of people have a very narrow, ignorant concept of Patriotism, regardless of what the dictionary definition is.
I think a better definition of patriotism would be Mark Twains. Supporting your country always and your government when it deserves it
Patriotism has nothing to do with issues of superiority but rather loyalty and love of country.
surely believing that America is the greatest nation in the world is both arrogant and superior? that is what we Europeans have trouble with.
No union jacks on the lapels? Just Kidding, anything can be used or misused I say. The same ones screeching about how patriotic they are the same ones that want to beat people over the head with religion and please understand that they don’t represent the typical American. That said I'm pretty patriotic myself. America has done a lot of good in its short history but I can admit that America has done some pretty bad things sometimes. It's a good country but it isn't perfect and sometimes we screw up and send the wrong people to Washington DC although we've never seen us screw up this badly before I don’t think. I don’t think the world will see a repeat of this, I hope the past administration was truly an aberration that won’t ever recur.
I've nerver seen us screw up this badly is what I meant to say.
It was your countryman, Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
His statement has never been more true than it is in 21st Century america.
It was our countryman, Samuel Adams, who said "Drink this beer". If you take a sip every time Bush mangles a word during a speech, you'll be passed out in no time, but you'll wake up the next morning with CNN on the tube and realize it wasn't just a 6-1/2 year long bad dream.
Now this post is amusing. So the US lacks balance and doesn't do patriotism well the way the English do...some may say those comments are a wee bit bias and the ramblings of a patriotic englishman. Notice how you didn't use individual people's actions but rather made it about one country versus another...do you see the irony here?
So the US lacks balance and doesn't do patriotism well the way the English do...
Let's just get this clear right now. I have never said that the English (or Great Britain for that fact) does patriotism better than the US. What I said was that you guys (speaking generally, yes) lack balance. I think it's obvious what I mean in this context but you don't seem to. The war in Iraq is not popular in the UK, never was, but there has never been an attempt by the Government to smear opposing views to the decision to go to war as unpatriotic. In a democracy opposing views are respected, not smeared or deemed treacherous.
I think a lot of Americans, like a lot of 20th century Europeans, confuse Patriotism with Nationalism. We think that "loving our country" means reacting violently to any criticism of it's policies and constantly reassuring ourselves that if we DO have problems, we are still far better off, more enlightened, and more "advanced" than any other nation on Earth, and if you don't agree, you are "unpatriotic."
This might explain why poll after poll reveals that Americans believe the US is the most charitable, religious, well-educated, free nation on Earth, besides having the world's best educational and health care systems. We just don't want to even consider the possibility that some group of people in some other country might have an idea that's better than ours, because that would do harm to our Superiority Complex. If we are Unpopular in the world, it's because we are successful and the rest of the world is jealous. We don't ever, ever have to change a thing to accomodate the rest of the world (don't EVER use the term "catch up," because we are the LEADERS, after all!) including even adopting the Metric System. We have NOTHING to learn from any other nation, because we're the BEST. And we'll keep believing this because our politicians and the MM keeps telling us it's so, and will continue to do so until the last job has been shipped overseas and only the top one percent can afford health care.
You, JJAMELE, are someone who seems actually to get it. Now how do we get someone like you to go to Washington? You just nailed it! Kudos.
I saw this interview, and the Cheney apologist Hayes was clearly starting to squirm by the end of it. My only regret is that Stewart is not a real journalist. If only our lapdog press would go after these people the way he does....we might not be bogged down in Iraq right now.
I agree...remember when Stewart went on Crossfire and begged them to stop? And it worked! Sad that producers of news shows have to be shamed by a comedian to clean up their lousy shows.
I must say, I like the offhand way Stewart dismissed Gibson. Didn't even bother naming him because he is really is just "some idiot at Fox." He addressed comment without giving it power.
Crossfire stopped. But then Bowtie got his own show. Nothing really changed.
I don't like what Hayes says much, but it took some guts for him to go on the Dailyshow. I give him some credit for that.
That said, Stewart has this awesome ability to make me cringe and want to keep watching. He is simply brilliant.
Stewart does not try to alienate his guests. He makes it clear that he is attacking the argument and not the guest.
Gibson is an idiot for suggesting Stewart's grief couldn't be genuine because he questions the policies of George W. Bush.
Stewart really should be more specific about which "idiot from Fox" he is referring to. If I wasn't already familiar with the issue, I could think of 9 guys off the top of my head that fit that general description.
A significant part of the point: with so many idiots loose in one little network, one needs a program to identify them anyway, so why would Jon lend even the credence of a name to the specific offending idiot? Especially since (being idiots) we can never seem to get them to wear the assigned number.
Not as clear as it seemed when I wrote it: the idiots whom we cannot get to wear the assigned numbers, or something of that sort, might not make "we" appear to be the idiots.
Open_mind: "Stewart really should be more specific about which "idiot from Fox" he is referring to. If I wasn't already familiar with the issue, I could think of 9 guys off the top of my head that fit that general description."
Maybe it's not such a bad thing that viewers will wonder which one of 9 guys might have said it? Kill 9 birds with one stone? >g<
The interview is pretty good.
I wish John hadn't let Hayes, a neo conservative responsible for the war, repeat the lies that Saddam was a threat to the US.
"During the interview, Hayes claimed that Cheney and President Bush "initially ... both thought there was a possibility that Saddam Hussein had had some role in the September 11th attacks," and that "pretty much everybody thought" Iraq "had weapons of mass destruction, and these terrorist groups that were -- in some cases, had overlapping relationships with Saddam ... and his intelligence services." Blitzer offered no challenge to Hayes' Iraq/Al Qaeda statements, despite the fact that Hayes wrote several articles and a book alleging connections between Al Qaeda and Iraq that were later discredited, and that Hayes' flawed work was touted by Cheney as the "best source of information" regarding the alleged connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200707250010
In other words, Hayes provided Cheney with the propaganda that allowed him the war, and then Hayes writes a glowing biography of Cheney.
John Gibson - just one pea in a king-size pod
Jon misspoke when he said "...some idiot from Fox..."
What he should have said was "...one of the Fox idiots..."
Bravo....well said.
I loved the show, and his jab at the idiot at Fox, letting viewers wonder which idiot it was.
His "Iraq would be a terrible idea Cheney" versus the "Iraq is a piece of cake Cheney" was hillarious. I think that pretty much wipped out anything Hayes tryied to imply about Sadam, and 9/11.
What value are Hayes' damaging statments if Jon's "Cheny versus Cheney" comparison rips it up? It made Hayes sound like a fool.
Stewart did a great job interviewing Hayes. He handled the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol the same way the night before. In both cases, Stewart did the job that MSM fails to do, asking tough questions and not letting his guests get away with repeating talking points unchallenged. Wonder if any of them ever watch Daily Show and if they are embarassed or ashamed that the comedian is a better journalist then they are.
While on the hunt for "traitors" I ran across this site
www.probush.com/traitor.htm
These folks are scary. Notice at the bottom of the page:
Email sent to ProBush.com is monitored by the U.S. Government
Your tax dollars at work.
Pearl
Thanks for that, this is just too funny!
Thanks Pearl.
I hope you also clicked on the list of Patriots.
The top of the list seems to be people who've emailed the website and pledged money.
At the bottom they have the honorary patriots.
Included among the "Honorary Patriots" is a person who allegedly defecated in his clothing, wore those clothes for several days and then went for his draft physical, stinking to high heavens. Of course he was turned down.
Who knew how easy is it to be a "patriot"?
Wow! What a nutcase! Seems pretty typical of the 28 percenters. Scary.
Thanks for the link Pearl.
it is scary how insane these people are. But its also kind of nice to see how long the list of traitors is.
Come on lets try to make it longer!
Well, at least we know what their definition of 'traitor' is - anyone who disagrees with them. What a scary bunch of idiots.
Does anyone know if Jon Stewart has had Bill Maher on or vise versa?
Stewart asks the kinds of questions that people want to have asked. It's really sad that since we lost Mike Wallace, TDS is one of very few outlets that we can see real interviewing take place.
In addition, his allusion to Gibson was as timely as it was restrained.
I totally agree. It's a shame what has happened to Chris Wallace. Daddy must be really proud.
That's one reason I like Kieth Olbermann. He's more of a real "newscaster" than Stewart, and he's willing to take on the Busheviks, though I would hesitate to call him a journalist. Bill Moyers is a true Journalist who's not afraid to call them on their lies.
Hayes is a rightwing ass, whose been supportive of this fiasco from the outset. He's wrong when he talks about people's patriotism not being questioned. It's been done repeatedly, from Bush on down. What does, "If you're not with us, you are against us" mean? What about, "Giving aide and comfort to the enemy"? Those type of rallying cries were spew from the top down, in the administration, and their fascist tv, radio and print press minions.
To quote Howard Zinn, patriotism is the belief that your country is better than any other because you were born there.
Howard Zinn created his own self-serving definition of the word. That's not what patriotism means; it sounds more like ethnocentrism than anything else.
I spent a year in Germany where to wear a German flag on your T-shirt is considered bad taste.
Probably because WWII\Nazie regime created a culture of wariness and disdain towards any conspicuous signs of loyalty and honor towards their country. Just an educated guess on my part. Like some posters have already mentioned, too many people-especially from foreign countries--confuse American patrtiotism with jingoism, arrogance, bigotry, and ethncoentrty. They are NOT the same things.
There is something wrong when people who are supposed to be journalists question the sincerity of a person who outright says he is an entertainer. Jon Stewart never claims to be anything other than a comedian. In fact he is a lot more than that, but he does not claim to be a journalist. For a "journalist" to claim an entertainer is being phony or is not sincere it reflects much more on the "journalist" than it does on the entertainer.
It is always morally wrong to question how another person feels unless you have direct proof of the insincerity. If the person from Fox Noise was there in the studio when Jon Stewart taped the segment and observed him come of camera and joke about how he just put one over on the viewers (or interviewed an eye witness to such an incident) he might have a case. Having worked with persons with mentally illness I am not sure I would accept even that as proof of how anyone feels. You can question a person's actions and behavior, what he days and does, but not his feelings.
I accept Jon Stewart as more real than any of the talking heads (or worse) that appear on Fox Noise.
Patriotism in America is complicated, because we Americans obviously view our responsibilities differently when it comes to "supporting our country".
A "patriotic" phrase that was heard during the VietNam era was "My country, right or wrong." Does this mean we have to support WRONG policies, or that we should strive to have our nation CORRECT wrong policies?
George W. Bush has often said that "his job" is to "protect Americans." In fact, his JOB is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States ... this is what his OATH OF OFFICE calls for, NOT anything about specific duties or protections. All too often, Bush's zeal to "protect America" has caused him to abandon his REAL job, which is to adhere to the Constitution and the laws of our nation.
In my opinion, a defining moment demonstrating "true patriotism" versus phony bravado and propaganda was Bush's "landing on a carrier" photo op. There was Bush, wearing a borrowed uniform he was unfit to wear, and making a declaration of victory which was patently FALSE ("mission accomplished"). This was a blatant attempt to "rally patriotism", while the truly patriotic could see a dozen reasons that this episode was a shameful display which actually denigrated our nation AND our troops.
Our system calls for our national "leaders" to work for US ... for WE THE PEOPLE. We have a President, but he (or she) is elected by majority vote (NOT of THE PEOPLE, but of the members of the Electoral College), is a POLITICIAN and a Partisan, and will all too often make decisions which prove to be WRONG. The patriot is NOT one who blindly supports every decision implemented by our "leaders", but instead to take the leadership role ourselves, and expose and correct America when she has been taken down a wrong path.
Our DUTY is to rally behind our Constitution, not the "leader" of the moment. We DO have a duty to support our troops, but the way to do this is to insist they have proper leadership, a proper mission, and detailed attention to their support on the ground and upon their return. Our current administration has FAILED our troops, every way there IS to fail them.
As PATRIOTS, we cannot allow our troops to continue to be misused, abused, and mistreated at the hands of incompetent leadership. Nationalism, which goes hand-in-hand with dictatorship, insists that we IGNORE the welfare of our troops, IGNORE our Constitution, and instead rally behind the "LEADER" and whatever policy he decides to enact. THIS is the difference between true patriotism, and a hollow "nationalism" ... nationalism blindly follows, while patriotism takes responsibility and corrects mistakes.
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
Hermann Goring
Stewart says the difference is we're not calling them traitors. Well, I am. I think Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld, at least, are treasonous slime who should spend the rest of their days in prison. They defrauded the US government and the people. This fraud occurred in the context of going to war and defending this nation. That's treason. Impeach 'em and convict 'em if they're still in office. Then convict them all in a criminal court and let them share a cell till they all die.
I think we need a firmer grip on the distinctions that separate true patriotism from mere jingoism and an unreasoned national chauvinism. When I hear these blanket statements proclaiming one country or another as the greatest on the planet, invariably two questions spring to mind: what are the criteria one is to use to arrive at that judgement, and wouldn't one have to had visited every known country on the planet to know with absolute certainty that this country or that was the Greatest on the Planet? Just wondering.
Gibson is typical of this under handed rightwing need to negate Liberal patriotism,religion and apparently even genuine emotion.It is a disgusting tactic that they've been indulging in for years but much more shamelessly since 9/11.I wonder when this kind of behavior will again be properly recognized as being beneath civilized discussion?
Oh please Loi Slap, this is the 21st century, there is no "civilized discussion" on shows like John Stuart Leibowitz Comedy Central gig or John Gibson's' show and the worst of the worst the tan man hims disgusting self...Keith Olbermoron. Again crying comedians and dead clowns are marginally funny (except for chuckles the now deceased Democrat clown who went to a elephant parade dressed as a peanut and got "shelled") The MSM has decided it wants it this way so these are the new rules we have to play by.........play!