UPDATED: Members of Congress denounced Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" smear
Sen. Jim Webb and Reps. Frank Pallone, Jan Schakowsky, Chris Van Hollen, and Patrick Murphy denounced Rush Limbaugh for calling service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers," which Media Matters for America documented.
On September 27, several members of Congress denounced Rush Limbaugh for, as Media Matters for America documented, calling service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers" on the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show. Reps. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) made speeches on the House floor responding to Limbaugh; Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) made his comments on the September 27 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann; and Reps. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) and Patrick J. Murphy (D-PA) issued statements denouncing Limbaugh's comments.
On the House floor, Pallone stated: "Yesterday, Limbaugh called service members who support a withdrawal from Iraq 'phony soldiers.' " Pallone added: "Last month, seven soldiers from the U.S. Army 82nd Airborne Division wrote an op-ed in The New York Times questioning our continued war efforts, but also stating, and I quote: 'We need not talk about our morale. As committed soldiers, we will see this mission through.' Now, since publication of that op-ed, two of the soldiers have died. As this op-ed shows, soldiers may question the war, but that does not mean that they are any less committed to their mission."
Schakowsky stated: "How dare Rush Limbaugh label anyone who has served in the military as a quote, 'phony soldier,' unquote? How dare he say that his views on Iraq formed in the comfort of his radio studio are legitimate while the views of those whose opinions were forged on the battlefield are not?" She added: "These are soldiers like Brandon Friedman, a former rifle platoon leader in the Army's 101st Airborne Division who fought in Afghanistan in 2002 and commanded troops in Iraq. He says quote, 'The escalation of the war is failing and now the mission must change.' 'The fact is,' he says, 'the Iraq war has kept us from devoting assets we need to fight terrorists worldwide as evidenced by the fact that Osama bin Laden is still on the loose and Al Qaeda has been able to rebuild.' " Schakowsky asked: "Is Brandon Friedman a phony?"
On Countdown, Webb said: "I really regret Mr. Limbaugh saying things like that. You know, we have a political diversity inside the military just like we do in the country." He later added: "I really react strongly when people politicize the service of our military people. They have a wide variety of political viewpoints, from all the way for this to all the way against it, and we need to respect that."
Murphy, an Iraq war veteran, said in a statement posted on Huffington Post:
When someone like Rush Limbaugh says that soldiers who disagree with the failed strategies of President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are "phony soldiers," you have to consider the source.
Rush Limbaugh, who, in January, called Vietnam veteran Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) "Senator Betrayus" for disagreeing with President Bush, has made no secret of his disdain for those who serve and speak out. Where was Rush Limbaugh when it came time to serve his country?
What's more, where was Limbaugh's outrage when Max Cleland, a Senator who left three of his limbs in Vietnam was smeared on television? Where was Limbaugh when Senator John Kerry's (D-MA) service was called into question in the form of millions of dollars in campaign ads?
My service was questioned last year during my campaign for Congress. Fortunately, the swift-boat attack on me didn't stick because people in my district in Bucks County, Pennsylvania and across America know that if someone wears the uniform and serves their country they've earned our respect regardless of political party.
Sadly, the political debate in this country has devolved into who can be more outraged at the latest smear attempt on those who should be thanked and praised for devoted service. Rush Limbaugh's phony outrage and derisive words call into contrast that which we all must honor: our Armed Forces currently fighting for their lives and our freedom all across the world. We need to be vigilant and speak out against those who question the value of that service -- and that goes for people on the right and the left.
Van Hollen said in a statement: "Rush Limbaugh's personal attack on our men and women in uniform is reprehensible. It minimizes the sacrifice our troops in Iraq and their families are making and has no place in the public discourse. Rush Limbaugh owes our military and their families an apology for his hurtful comments that minimize their service to our country"
UPDATE: Since September 27, Sens. Tom Harkin (D-IA) and Harry Reid (D-NV) have also denounced Limbaugh's characterization of service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as "phony soldiers." Additionally, Rep. Steve Israel (D-NY) criticized Limbaugh on the House floor and Rep. Joseph Sestak (D-PA) responded to Limbaugh's statement on the October 3 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends.
From Harkin's October 1 floor statement:
I must add, as a veteran, I find it offensive that Rush Limbaugh, who never put on the uniform of this country, would attack the patriotism and the dedication of any soldier fighting in Iraq. I've often said about someone like that before they drape themselves in the flag of this country, they ought to put on the uniform first to defend it. In Mr. Limbaugh's case, he would not do that. Well, I also find it disturbing that his offensive comments have not been condemned by our Republican colleagues or by the Commander in Chief, all of whom were so quick to condemn a similar personal attack on General Petraeus several weeks ago.
From Reid's October 1 floor statement
Last week, Rush Limbaugh went way over the line. While I respect his right to say anything he likes, his unpatriotic comments cannot be ignored. During his show last Wednesday, Limbaugh was engaged in one of his typical rants. This one was unremarkable, indistinguishable from his usual drivel which has been steadily losing listeners for years, until he crossed that line by calling our men and women in uniform who oppose the war in Iraq, and I quote, "phony soldiers." This comment was so beyond the pale of decency, we can't leave it alone. And yet he followed it up with denials and an attack on Congressman Jack Murtha, who was a 37-year active member of the Marine Corps, combat veteran.
From Israel's October 3 floor statement
But I must say, Mr. Speaker, that when I heard of the comments of Rush Limbaugh, when I heard him impugn the integrity of our soldiers, when I heard him call them phonies, I had just about had it. How dare he attack our soldiers. How dare he impugn their integrity. How dare he attack their credibility. There is no place in America for anyone to attack our soldiers while they are fighting in combat or when they have come home. I don't care what the reason, Mr. Speaker. There is no place in America for that, particularly coming from someone who believes that he is the ''gold standard'' of patriotism, who believes he has a monopoly on patriotism, who has accused anyone who dissents with a particular policy with which he disagrees as a traitor. What is patriotic, Mr. Speaker, about calling American soldiers phonies? What is patriotic about that?
[...]
I went to Walter Reed Army Hospital yesterday, and maybe that's why I'm so fired up, Mr. Speaker. I visited Walter Reed Army Hospital yesterday and with young men whose limbs have been amputated, whose futures have been changed. How dare anybody suggest that because one of them may disagree with a policy that that person is a phony. Thank God we live in a country that gives us the right to agree with a policy to go to war. You have the right to disagree, you even have the right to remain silent, but no one has the right in this country to call any member of our Armed Forces ''phony,'' and Rush Limbaugh owes them an apology.
From the October 3 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends
SESTAK: I condemn the words, if this is how it's stated -- that Rush Limbaugh used, not his right to state it. Step back one more time, though. You know, what's most important for these men and women to remember out there, whether it's Rush Limbaugh calling Senator Hagel, who served in Vietnam, "Senator Betrayus" on 25 January or MoveOn.org using certain words, is remember your military in America is different. Your military remembers that age-old maxim from the 1600s that that nation that draws a broad line of demarcation between its thinking men and its fighting men will find its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. You need to have military people who think and critique differently.
Further, on September 28, Senate Democrats issued a letter to Mark P. Mays, CEO of Clear Channel Communications -- owner of Limbaugh's syndicator, Premiere Radio Networks -- calling on him to publicly repudiate Limbaugh's statement. The letter was signed by 41 senators, including Reid, Harkin, and Webb, as well as Sens. Richard Durbin (D-IL), Charles Schumer (D-NY), and Patty Murray (D-WA). The letter states:
Although Americans of goodwill debate the merits of this war, we can all agree that those who serve with such great courage deserve our deepest respect and gratitude. That is why Rush Limbaugh's recent characterization of troops who oppose the war as "phony soldiers" is such an outrage.
Our troops are fighting and dying to bring to others the freedoms that many take for granted. It is unconscionable that Mr. Limbaugh would criticize them for exercising the fundamentally American right to free speech. Mr. Limbaugh has made outrageous remarks before, but this affront to our soldiers is beyond the pale.
[...]
Thousands of active troops and veterans were subjected to Mr. Limbaugh's unpatriotic and indefensible comments on your broadcast. We trust you will agree that not a single one of our sons, daughters, neighbors and friends serving overseas is a "phony soldier." We call on you to publicly repudiate these comments that call into question their service and sacrifice and to ask Mr. Limbaugh to apologize for his comments.
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As time goes on, the rightwing propaganda machine shows more often and more clearly their hypocricy, their blind partisanship, and their perverted priorities.
The NeoCon chickenhawks have repeatedly shown they have no respect whatsoever for our fighting men and women, other than as fodder to achieve economic goals, and as shields behind which to attempt to hide from criticisms of the NeoCon's failed and tragically wrongheaded policies.
The rightwing has no qualms about smearing decorated combat vets who dare to disagree with Republican policy. Max Clelland, John McCain, and John Kerry ... to name just a few ... have had their patriotism, courage, and honor attacked by the denizens of the Right, and with no evidence or any other reason than the politics of personal destruction.
Support the Troops? The only support the troops need now is to protect them from the incompetent leadership and insatiable greed of the NeoCons who presently call the shots in the Bush Administration. It has become clear: to support the troops is to oppose Bush's failed leadership. To support Bush is to betray and abandon our troops.
It's way past time to call these "phony patriots", these chickenhawk warmongers, these war profiteers, what they are: Enemies of America. This means Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest of the rightwing bloviators who currently pollute our airwaves.
I am all for condemning MoveOn as going too far, but if we are going to open up that can of worms, then we need to discuss a lot of remarks from conservatives that are equally worthy of condemnation.
Is Congress just going to sit around all day and condemn this and that? Why don't they each just post their disapproval on their own blogs or something. That way anyone who gives a crap can read their condemnation for themselves.
This looks like yet another glaring double standard by Congress if they don't include Limbaugh in their harumphs of condemnation.
Absolutely agree.......well said. Is this what Congress has now become - a media watchdog body that condemns this and that just to show their constituents something? What it shows me is if they continue on this hall monitoring crusade of theirs, that they are unfit to publicly serve in any meaningful capacity anymore. We have problems that demand leadership and need addressing in this country - did anyone tell Congress that?
Pathetic.
Personally, I disdain Congress condemning any American citizen or organization for freely speaking.
And I agree, what are they going to do initiate a daily list of condemnation? Monday KKK, Tuesday Fred Phelps, Wednesday Bill O'Reilly, Thursday Al Sharpton, Friday Micael Vick, Saturday MoveOn and on and on. And where does condemnation end and supression of free speech begin?
Rush was wrong, stupid and haughty but damn is this really the people's business?
Yes, Roundhouse, I heartily agree. It is akin to censorship to me, like the hearings held recently on hip-hop lyrics.
It's just like that.
But I can't, for the life of me, understand why I included Mike Vick in my list of Congressional Free Speech Condemnation.
Today I feel nothing but pity for this sad, pathetic excuse of a human being. How anyone could live with themselves by making their living spewing such hatred, I don't know. I guess that explains the drugs and three broken marriages.
Don't feel pity. Rush lives a life that was molded in the image of his chosen principles, conservative principles which favor monetary success over all else and at the expense of honor, decency, empathy, and regard for fellow human beings. While I would normally feel pity for someone who is absent these assets, I can't feel anything other than contempt when that someone willfully abandoned them for money and fame. His value system wasn't forced on him, and he deserves exactly what he gets.
Decades from now when his money does nothing more than allows him to sit on his wart-riddled cottage-cheese posterior in comfortable isolated torment, wasting his last years in a sweat-dampened easy chair melting holes in his adult diapers with fallen cigar ash and regretting the oxy-induced silence, and long after his bloated body becomes fertilizer for weeds, he'll be ridiculed for the greedy ignorant huckster he is by a society no longer condemned to suffer the rhetoric he spewed to rally the intellectually lazy into a dizzying frenzy of moronic comsumer zombies with mouths agape to the sky like baby birds ready to be fed the regurgitated bile that Rush has relabeled "conservative ideology".
Geez, sometimes a good run-on sentence is manna for the soul. It's gonna be a good Friday...
There , I have a had vague inkling thrashing around my brain , trying to understand where these people like Rush and who admire him are coming from .
"conservative principles which favor monetary success over all else and at the expense of honor, decency, empathy, and regard for fellow human beings. "
Nail head, meet hammer.
conservative principles
There's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
I dont think that is fair. We shouldnt judge the entire conservative movement by this neocon administration or the Limbuaghs and Coulters of the world who would certainly fit that perfectly. Remember the Goldwaters, Danforths, and Buckleys. They still exist they have just been drown out by the flood
Can we finally put to rest why MMFA is needed?
This rank, blatant hypocrisy would never have seen daylight were it not documented by MMFA. It changes the entire right-wing driven argument about MoveOn in a way that exposes the cynicism of the neo-con movement.
Those of us who drop in on the message boards here are used to the plaintive wails of the trolls: "It's just Rush! Who Cares?! No one listens - well, no one who matters, anyway. Why does MMFA bother with this?"
This is why. For going on 30 years, the right has used its echo chamber to control our nation's dialog. The only defense is a carefully documented account of their lies, sanctimony, and hypocrisy.
There is no argument against it - Rush is a two-faced liar. He is far worse than the New York Times or MoveOn ever will be. Remember that, nation, the next time your Vice-President visits his studio.
Bravo Ellington...
Where is the media now? Where is the outrage? Are we going to see the corporate media rise up in condemnation of this despicable, cowardly, hypocrite: Rush Limboob?
I'm waiting.................................
I'm waiting corporate media.......................
Consider the size of his audience! Many times more people probably heard that insulting statement than ever saw the newspaper ad in the Times which earned a resolution from the congress. Will congress speak out formally against this kind of slander?
I think they are hearing us this time!
After carefully reviewing the transcript and listening to the recording, I think that it is very clear that Limbaugh was not referring to all soldiers who are opposed to the war. Limbaugh was becoming very suspicious that "Mike" (CALLER1) was a seminar caller who was posing as a Republican and a former soldier. By the time the next caller (also, "Mike") makes this statement:
CALLER 2: No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.
LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers....
It's clear to me that CALLER2 and RL are simply referring to the phonies who call up talk shows with bogus claims about being soldiers. There were many examples of this type of thing happening during the Vietnam era where bogus claims were made by people who were lying about their service records.
I think that with this case, and with the Bill O comments, what is really happening is that people who don't like conservative talk shows are simply making the most negative interpretation possible out of pretty benign comments.
The same thing would happen if a conservative group were to monitor Air America and complain about things (like when Randi Rhodes did the skit about killing President Bush).
Bzzzt! Sorry.
Limpaugh made an admission on his show today that clearly illustrated that your excuse for him is fantasy, and your clarity is limited to blind loyalty.
Excellent effort on your part, however, to spin it 'til we were all as dizzy as a limpaugh audience.
They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media." Limbaugh interjected, "The phony soldiers." The caller, who had earlier said, "I am a serving American military, in the Army," agreed, replying, "The phony soldiers."
You're defending that?
Listen to the Congresswoman - are the NY Times editorial soldiers phony? Were they pulled "out of the blue" to denounce the war?
We all know if a liberal/progressive/Democrat said this about soldiers who support Bush's policy, they would be hanged and shot.
I am glad that Congress had the spine to condemn Rush "I have pimple on my butt" Limbaugh. This man makes me sick. I'd like to see Jim Webb wipe the floor with this jerk.
Get real. Jim Webb can't even wipe his own butt. He has a mail-order bride for that.
KEVIN smears another decorated combat vet, belittles and insults, simply because KEVIN doesn't agree with his POLITICS (opposes Bush).
And there you have it, folks. NO RESPECT WHATSOEVER for the military, for brave soldiers who have served ... the only goal is to smear anyone who dares disagree with Bush.
Note, there is no attempt at policy discussion. It's deeply personal ... and without any merit from a factual standpoint. Thanks, KEVIN, for the demonstration of rightiwing contempt for our soldiers! It's a knee-jerk thing.
Gosh, I didn't see an R in front of any of the pols decry Limbaugh's slanders. Any idea why?
Whoops! decryING. Sorry about that.
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) was on C-SPAN a few years ago giving a speech in Chicago. While criticizing President Bush, she said, "As they say in Spanish, Bush has a lot of chutzpah."
A little old woman sitting in front meekly said, "That's Yiddish."
Schakowsky is an airhead. How does someone like that get elected?
I think Pallone is probably a foot tapper. No one with a coif like that (think Liberace) could be straight.
"I really react strongly when people politicize the service of our military people." Webb said this on Olbermann's show. The same sissy Olbermann last week accused Gen. Petraeus of wearing skirts. How can MMFA stand the hypocrisy while watching Countdown? (And how do they stay awake?)
This post only proves that our illustrious former Marine Kevin, will not crawl out from under the rock to defend anyone who expresses a legitimate gripe against the current administration.
I'm not sure if anyone's ever told you this before, but Kev, you're a disgrace. Marine or not.
In this and every war that we've been involved in, military personnel have always been for or against the wars and the prosecution of the wars that they served in. This doesn't make them any less effective in their jobs or unfortunately any less dead or wounded.
Keep defending those who refused to defend our country. Keep denigrating those who serve and have served. You give new meaning to the word pathetic.
As far a your account of Representative Pallone, we're very happy with him in our district. We've elected him to represent us ten times so far.
If I were you I'd be more concerned with you repressed, latent tendencies. The tough guy bit you've been playing is wearing thin.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. A lot of great former Marines play for the other team.
James Bond Kevin demonstrates, yet again, that he is nothing more than a Regurgicon hack. But he did go to spy school...so WATCH OUT!
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) was on C-SPAN a few years ago giving a speech in Chicago. While criticizing President Bush, she said, "As they say in Spanish, Bush has a lot of chutzpah."
Ever hear of humor, Kevy-kev? Putz.
Her speech was humourous, but not intentionally. She truly believed that "chutzpah" was a Spanish word. That was clear when the little. old woman in the front corrected her.
Thats almost as bad as Bush telling reporters that the problem with France is they have no word for entrepreneur
TEX:
"The NeoCon chickenhawks have repeatedly shown they have no respect whatsoever for our fighting men and women, other than as fodder to achieve economic goals, and as shields behind which to attempt to hide from criticisms of the NeoCon's failed and tragically wrongheaded policies."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a draft dodger named Bill Clinton who said he loathed the military?
Have you considered seeking professional help for this Bubba obsession?
Bubba Derangement Disorder
Yes, you're wrong. Bill Clinton never said that he loathed the military. He said that many people who loved their country found themselves loathing the military.
But thanks - your misquotation is a perfect example of the right-wing spin machine in action.
Thanks Temp...
Kevin1007 has got a 1000 right-wing lies dancing in his puny little mind.
And now he's here to show us how to make a fool out of yourself.
A distinction without a difference. You should work for George Soros and Media Matters.
So you just enjoy lying I guess. Just stick with the propaganda you were INSTRUCTED to peddle whether or NOT it is a lie. You are sad
You are pathetic, truly pathetic. A US solider who volunteered to put his life on the line for his country who happens to disagrees with the US policies in Iraq and you decide to counter with trash. How did Schakowsky get elected? People voted for her you dimwit. You remember democracy... the second or third excuse used for the war in Iraq. You think Pallone is a foot tapper? Ask fellow foot tapper Larry Craig, I'm sure he'd know. While you’re here sitting on your lazy butt Jim Webb has served his country and his son is still serving. You feel soo passionate about this war, get up off your lazy butt and serve!
You wanna talk about draft dodging? Let’s start with Dick Cheney the 5 time draft dodging queen...move along to Mitt the missionary draft dodging and his non serving, more important to campaign 5 sons…and don't leave out Rudy the have no shame 911 pimping 2 time draft dodging weasel..... to that we can then add Tom the draft dodging Delay…..and of course Rush the draft dodging Limbo…..can leave out Ken the draft dodging psoriasis Starr….don’t want to miss Trent CCC draft dodging Lott….. and we can close part of this list with George AWOL Bush. You really want to talk draft dodging?
US soldiers have more than earned the right to speak out about this war and no one including Limbo has the right to say sh*t about WHAT they want to say!
US soldiers have more than earned the right to speak out about this war and no one including Limbo has the right to say sh*t about WHAT they want to say!
I agree with most of your post. However, I did have a problem with the last part. Limbo does have the right to speak out about what they have to say, that pesky 1st Ammendment. I personally didn't agree with what Rush said, but he certainly had the right to say it.
Should congress adopt a resolution of official comdemnation like they did to condemn Move On for insulting Gen Patraeus?
Lynn,
No on both counts. Congress has nothing to do with any of this.
I actually agree with you Dave, the Move On resolution was serious waste of time and an innapropriate endeavor for congress; but I just want to know why the congress people who screamed the loudest about the Move On incident including President Chicken Hawk who said that and I paraphrase Move On's ad was an attack on the military aren't so vocal in their outrage over Rush's statement. Did the press even ask for White House statement on this? If this had come from someone on the left they would have proactively been all over it.
US soldiers have more than earned the right to speak out about this war and no one including Limbo has the right to say sh*t about WHAT they want to say!
Did you feel the same way about Gen. Patraeus and his "right" to to speak about the war, especially considering his credentials and history? If you feel the same way, are you outraged with the MoveOn ad?
I was not thrilled by the MoveOn ad...Are you happy with what Mr. Limbaugh had to say? Were you outraged about the lies of the S*itboat crowd? Why do you Cons always feel free to ask the "tough" questions but never have the stomach to be truthful if you answer.
I'll answer. No, I was not thrilled with Moveon, Swiftboaters or Limbaugh. I also don't like taxes, affirmative action, or illegal immigration. As I also told Lynn, I think there is no reason Congress should stick there nose into any of this. Did I answer your question?
Actually, you did. Thank you. I wasn't trying to be a jerk when asking that, and judging from responses, I feel as though some people thought that.
I didn't think you were being a jerk, and I enjoyed answering it.
Was it a crime for me to ask this question of Dave? Get over yourself for a minute and understand that every time someone asks a question, they don't have other motives.
IMO General Petraeus left himself wide open for criticism when he wrote an opinion piece in the Washington Post on September 24, 2004. He expressed his opinion and people have the right to express their opinion of him and what he said then and now.
Of COURSE he has the right. Then WE have a right to criticise HIM. Did you think that only conservatives have such rights or is it that only the original statement is covered by free speech and criticism of it somehow isnt? Did you think free speech meant a soapbox on which to say anything you want UNCONTESTED? You. Have. No. Point.
Pearlene:
You're an idiot. No wonder you are so suspectible to MMFA lies.
Kev you are ignorant beyond belief. Single celled organisms exceed your capacity for higher brain function. No wonder you are so brainwashed. Your ignorance makes you a perfect subject. You are SOOO stupid.
dodging the draft was a crime...when was Clinton convicted of this crime you have conferred upon him?
Actually, Clinton didn't "dodge the draft." After a series of deferments ran out, rather than try one last byantine bureaucratic loophole to avoid (legally) being drafted, he instead allowed his name to be entered in the lottery, where he drew a high number. So, no, he was in the draft, he didn't dodge it.
KEVIN:
You say, “Correct me if I'm wrong …”
RESPONSE: Sure, I'll correct you, because you're COMPLETELY wrong, on your facts, on your "conclusion", and on how it applies to what I said.
KEVIN: “…but wasn't it a draft dodger named Bill Clinton …”
RESPONSE: ‘Draft dodging’ was a CRIME. Many fled to another country after being drafted, usually to Canada. Another form of dodging the draft, fraudulent and illegal if discovered, was to fake or invoke a disability in order to avoid being drafted (Limbaugh’s pilonidal cyst). There were many other ways to AVOID military service in combat which were not “DODGING”, and were not illegal, such as college deferments (Cheney, others) or instead opting for non-combat service in the reserves (Bush). Draft AVOIDANCE kept people out of harm’s way, and is the hallmark of Chickenhawks who were (and ARE) gung-ho for WAR as long as somebody else fights it.
So, Clinton was NOT a “draft dodger.” He was not drafted. Apparently, he was a draft AVOIDER, whose position was entirely consistent: He OPPOSED the war, and was vocal with his opposition. This sets him apart from the Bush NeoCons who greatly FAVOR war, while avoiding combat themselves in cowardly fear of their personal safety and comfort.
KEVIN: “… who (Clinton) said he loathed the military?”
RESPONSE: Here is the letter in context, rather than the single line you chose to cherrypick as an indication of Clinton’s view of the military (the letter sets the LIE to your out-of-context charge):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html
Here is what I said, to which you think the Clinton reference is some sort of “rebuttal”:
“The NeoCon chickenhawks have repeatedly shown they have no respect whatsoever for our fighting men and women, other than as fodder to achieve economic goals, and as shields behind which to attempt to hide from criticisms of the NeoCon's failed and tragically wrongheaded policies."
RESPONSE: Books have and will be written about the contrast between how Clinton and Bush have used, treated, and talked about military actions and members. For a shorthand version, note that Republicans SMEAR decorated military vets, and Clinton did not. Bush expends great loss of life in military campaigns, and Clinton did not. Bush fabricated the reasons for a war, and Clinton did not. Clinton used military action as a LAST resort, while Bush uses military force as a FIRST and ONLY resort, to the exclusion of other more peaceful paths (diplomacy, for example).
Kevin, your POINTS have all been successfully rebutted. Better luck next time.
Kind of you to call them points. I would have said delusions
TMAN418:
"We all know if a liberal/progressive/Democrat said this about soldiers who support Bush's policy, they would be hanged and shot."
Really? Dick Durbin compared our Marines to Nazis and the Khmer Rouge. Last time I checked, the mental midget was still alive and serving in the Senate.
Wow, you are a busy troll today. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining why that Durbin comment was asinine.
Of course,if you were a person capable of thinking and not just someone who rehashes everything Hannity says, I would explain to you that he didn't compare the troops to Nazi's.
But I am just going to tell you go back under your bridge.
Sorry, I meant your comment about Dick Durbin
Sure, Onionhead, the old "I don't have time" excuse. I think you're just afraid to face all of those exact quotes and links Kevin7 provided.
Well, maybe not quotes or links, but paraphrasing through El Rushbo, and an unsubstantiated anecdote about a little old lady and what was possibly a joke that she didn't get.
Kevin, are you that "little old lady"?
what exact quotes? kevin paraphrased durbin, and posted no quotes...because the quotes would not abide his paraphrasing.
this is childs play...you defend kevin by claiming he posted exact quotes, which is an obvious lie...so where does that leave kevins arguement?
I think you misunderstood HBL's post. I guess he should have used the <sarcasm> tag.
Thanks, OH. I still forget occasionally that I have to add the winky face or sarcasm tag.
Hey Kevin. It seems obvious that you think the media has a Liberal Bias, so I must ask, since you're new here, Why did Ron Reagan abolish the Fairness Doctrine?
Rick, I'll go off topic with you. Reagan did not abolish the Doctrine. The FCC did it, and to be fair, they were led by an R, in a vote of 4-0. Reagan just vetoed its reintroduction in 1987.
Oh, I thought the rule of going off topic went out the window since Kevin was talking about Bill Clinton and the Liberal media.
But, since you mentioned Reagan's veto of the Fairness Doctrine, why do you (or Kevin) think Reagan veto'd it?
I'm not going to speak for Kevin or Reagan, but I only mentioned Reagan's veto of it in response to your incorrect version of how it got repealed in the first place. Its becoming a lefty myth that Reagan abolished it. He clearly did no such thing.
The Fairness Doctrine, was repealed in 1987 by the FCC under new chair Dennis R. Patrick, a Reagan White House aide. A year after the doctrine’s repeal, a bill to reinstate the doctrine passed overwhelmingly, but failed to override Reagan’s veto.
So, although Reagan didn't personally abolish it, his administration most certainly did. The larger and more important question:
If the media is Liberal as Limbaugh and the other right wingers insist, why would Conservatives abolish a tool which would be so useful to get their message out to the public?
This proves that Limbaugh is lying to the public, and has been since he's been on the air. There is no Liberal media.
You don't ever get this stuff straight do you?
It was quite clearly a swipe at the Bush policies - the current regime and not an attack any servicemen. You are just making a bigger fool of yourself here. It is pretty obvious what he was saying:
"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control," he said, "you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings." --Dick Durban
What a moron you are Kev. You SHOULD know mental midgets having BEEN ONE your entire life.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062001175.html
Those of us who have read accounts of the gulag or of the interrogation methods of the Nazis and similar barbaric regimes are familiar with the infinite varieties of torture. Maybe for that reason I did not feel it was anything of a stretch for Sen. Dick Durbin to refer to those regimes when reciting what an FBI agent had seen at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba: detainees "chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water," or deprived of a bathroom, or kept in extreme heat or cold. One was found "almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out." Whatever that is, it is not America.
This was Durbin's point. He was right, although not necessarily politically prudent or elegant, when he said that if you did not know these descriptions came from an FBI agent, you "would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime . . . that had no concern for human beings." I certainly might have thought so -- although, in general, these regimes were capable of far worse than that, and Durbin should not have said "most certainly." A "possibly" would have done just fine.
Typical daily conversation by liberals who want the worse for this country. Do any of you have facts to base your comments, or do you continue, as most liberals do, to make up stuff as you go in order to unsuccessfully prove your point?
Do any of you have any facts
Why yes. Yes we do. There's a long post a few posts above yours refuting Kev's talking points, and another refuting the smear on Durbin which was offered instead of a reply to the rebuttal. The "facts not feelings" Lincoln log of conservative rhetoric doesn't fit here. You should have tried the "ill-informed" Lincoln log instead. Hope this helps.
JOEWO, Excuse me for being indifferent but exactly where did the Republans do something great for this country by reelecting Pres. Bush? And please explain in your own words, no Limby, Hannity, etc. what you mean by your comments? They don't make sense in this real world.
Typical daily conversation by liberals who want the worse for this country. Do any of you have facts to base your comments, or do you continue, as most liberals do, to make up stuff as you go in order to unsuccessfully prove your point?
Joewoj, Do you have the proof of what is "daily conversation" by liberals? Do you have any facts to base your comments on or do you as most conservatives make up stuff as you go in order to unsuccessfully prove you point?
My my, these emotional issues do flush the chumps don't they?
I'm sure some of the old school folks such as myself have noticed that every time O'Reilly or Limbaugh or Bozell get their knickers in a twist over MMFA quoting them verbatim, there's a flood of anonymous posters with names like "conservotroll82443509." They post for a couple of days, usually something beginning with "you libs..." blah blah blah.
Then, when they get tired of being verbally spanked for their (usually) immature and (always) erroneous comments, they usually slink away. A few stick around, thinking they're fighting the good fight, but their comments too tend to become meaningless and repetitive (e.g., "why is this here?").
I like to think that a small minority of them learn a thing or two about the fantasy world they've created around themselves.
Another ignorant conservative who wants this country destroyed and is LYING AGAIN. Accusing liberals of what is con stock and trade. Plenty of facts coming from liberals here. Though I am not suprised you are FAR to ignorant to undestand them. Plenty of lies, distortions and outright idiocy coming from you Cons
Why hasn't the Commander in Chief denounced Limbaugh's insult to the military?
Bush's silence serves as tacit ratification of Limbaugh's comment. Bush strongly criticized MoveOn.org's critical advertisement regarding Gen. Petraeus but he has thus far remained silent regarding Limbaugh's insult. Is the integrity of our troops fighting the battle and placed directly in harm's way any less deserving of respect than that of a high-ranking general? Jim Webb said it best when he noted "we have a political diversity inside the military just like we do in the country." Isn't respect for that diversity what freedom and democracy are all about?
Wouldn't you'd like to see Prez GWB squirm under that type of questioning?
I'm sure that no one in the White House press corps will have the chance to ask that question even if they wanted to. I have a feeling that if anything is said it will be by the press secretary, saying that the Pres is very sorry such a unwise thing was said by Mr. Limbaugh. Condemnation, I’ll not hold my breath. That one of the biggest apologists for this administration has proven that idiocy in the conservative world continues to baffle the mind will be ignored by the majority of the right.
You gotta be kidding...President Numbnuts will never criticize Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh was one of the reasons Bush got elected. Rush is the paid mouthpiece of the people who own George Bush.
And if MMFA and other organizations continue to quote these mouthpieces of the right, the Rushbo will once again get more Democrats elected....can anyone say NOVERMBER '07.
The Big Mouths are running scared...Right Billo.
Ha! This from a guy who avoided serving because he had a boil on his ass. And what does it say about his followers? The "ditto-heads" who hang on every word that tub of lard has to say. The boils on their asses are their heads.
NEWSFLASH**** from Rushs' School of Repeaters... From this moment on, the term DITTOHEAD has been replaced with the proper term BOILBUTTS. After writing this, I truly don't see any difference.
Advertisers should reconsider sponsoring this junkie's radio program. If enough people-including military personell and their families-call his advertisers and complain, I'm sure they will drop this junkie's show like a hot potatoe.
Let's start calling and e-mailing.
Inasmuch as Bill O'Reilly has promised to to go the homes of smear merchants in the corrupt media to confront them, I suggest that we all ask Mr. O'Reilly to go to Rush Limbaugh's home and put a camera up Mr. Limbaugh's nose, as Mr. O'Reilly said he would do to those in the media who smear others. Members of our military who held sincere reservations about the Iraq war have fought and died in Iraq. How must their families feel about their deceased loved ones being characterized as "phony soldiers"? Limbaugh's remarks are beneath contempt. Where is Bill O'Reilly's outrage? Where is Sean Hannity's outrage? Where is George Bush's outrage?
Their outrage is saved for Democrats and it's always phony. Rush Limbaugh escaped having to serve his country because he had a boil up his butt. I think these dittos have their heads up their butts.
Wow. Our good buddy Kevin-0-seven has finally slithered back in. I guess he's been away at Spy School, taking refresher courses. He usually slinks in to chastise one of us for "dissing the troops". I wondered if he would weigh in on this one, maybe acknowledging that Rush has crossed the line. But, true to form, Kevin just drops a few outdated digs at Democrats, totally ignoring Rush's insult.
Kevin has shown that his "indignation" over imagined slurs against our troops is just bullsh*t. He's just one more pathetic, misinformed, dishonest Bush apologist.
See, here again though, we have a severe difference between this denouncement of Limbaugh and what happened with the Moveon ad (I can't believe that this ad is still being discussed) is that this was just a couple of members of Congress expressing their feelings about what Limbaugh said on his show, as opposed to the entire Senate debating, and then voting on, and approving overwhelmingly a resolution against, you know, that whole free speech thing.
I think most of us, maybe aside from Kevin and a few others who roll in here from time to time, know that Limbaugh is ignorant, and knows not what falls from his slobbery mouth most of the time. He's trying to incite, and cause controversy, and that's fine. He's entitled to his opinions of course, and in this case, we have some members of Congress basically calling him out on his BS, but this is in no way or form anything at all like what happened in the Senate with the Moveon ad, which was pure politics, and falls right into the spectrum of the Terry Schiavo realm of things, and I'm sad that a vast majority of democrats voted for the Moveon resolution, rather than, once again, be branded by the right as un-patriotic and anti-military.
Have we regressed so far in this country that there are people who hold much sway, and a lot of power who are above reproach now? Like Petraeus. Like Bush. Look at, once again, what has happened to people who have dared question their leadership and their decisions. I find it hard to believe that we've become so black and white these days. Everything is good, or bad, there is no in between. For some reason you can't criticize Petraeus and be pro-military at the same time. You can't be for America, and criticize the President at the same time (not during a time of war for crying out loud! Even though, you know, we're not at war and all). Makes me sad that we can criticize our leaders, but when we do, we're called un-patriotic, traitors, and terrorist sympathizers. It's actually quite ridiculous.
Rush Limbaugh NEVER served in the military. When he was draft age and we were in Vietnam Limbaugh was considered "unacceptable" due to a very slight physical problem he had, some type of sack near his buttocks that filled up with fluid. YUCK! The point is that he NEVER served but true to form has attacked men and woman who have served in Iraq and they have seen what is happening there and he calls them "phony soldiers" because they think we should get out of there. Limbaugh, along with Ann Coulter are the real traitors and phonies. Newspapers and radio stations should just stop carrying their hate and misinformation. No one in her/his right might wants to listen to that crap anymore!!
****FLASH****
A little known fact about how Ann Coulter suddenly dropped on the scene out of nowhere:
...some type of sack near his buttocks that filled up with fluid. = Ann Coulter
When the fluid-filled sac, which was covered in blonde hair, was surgically removed from Limbaugh's buttocks area years ago, to the astonishment of the surgeons the sac began to speak in right wing tongues. The surgeons named the sac Ann...and it still hasn't shut up.
Just thought you might be interested to learn some little-known history. You're welcome... ;>)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-patrick-murphy/honoring-all-those-who-se_b_66225.html
Phoney rhetoric from a phoney patriot about so-called phoney soldiers. A number of these phoney soldiers have given their lives, limbs, minds, etc. When will this phoney get the recognition he deserves?
xvet
Well there goes Rush's one on one interview with the president. Maybe not. The president does not watch the news or Congress so he might not know.
This is how you guys operate - take a quote out of context, publicize in and then wait for the usual left wing kneejerk liberal reaction. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Democracy_Alliance. Media Matters regularly denies connection with George Soros but they receive funding from Democracy Alliance, check out the previous link. So the liars have become the self appointed thought police. The sole intent of Media Matters is the character assassination and destruction of anyone who disagrees with them. That's because the liberal left cannot possibly benefit from a fact based thoughtful discussion of the issues.
Megadittos,whatitis. Speaking of not bringing facts, you accuse "the left" of taking things out of context. Why didn't you supply the proper context for Boilbutt's quote, and make us look like fools?
Oh yeah, because you're full of sh*t and can't. Thanks for visiting.
The topic is Rush Limbo calling US soldiers who disagreed with the current US policy in Iraq "phony soldiers".
Try to keep up, we already covered the topic of funding of MMFA along time ago. Feel free to share that info with your right wing nut jobs at Bill'O.com.
Another ignorant cell of the Limborg heard from. MMFA denies recieving money FROM Soros WHICH has NEVER BEEN SUCCESSFULLY REFUTED. They admit getting money from DA. Man you are so stupid. The cumalitive IQ of the Limborg couldnt possibly rach triple digits. Hasnt Limbo told you what to think today? You are both a liar AND a fool. Good job
Unbelieveable! All these comments tell me one thing --- most of you are all blind followers of the "drive-by" media. Whatever they put out there, you just lap it up. None of you listen to Rush -- that's oh so obvious! Rush definitely did not say what has been, indeed, taken out of context. No one appreciates the military more. I would challenge any/all of you to listen to Rush for 6 weeks and come away with any other impression. Rush even says it takes 6 weeks to "get" his program and understand where he's coming from on a variety of topics.
When I started listening, I, too, thought he was bombastic and somewhat of a blowhard. The more I listened, though, the more encouraged I became in my thinking and how to live my life. Consequently, I encouraged my husband to go ahead and start his own business. Rush taught both of us that hard work, believing in yourself and playing by the rules will pay off.
If any of you are truly interested in the truth, go to rushlimbaugh.com. The entire conversation is there; even a transcript. Take 8 minutes and do yourself a favor.
ddp36, don't you think it's funny that immediately after accusing everybody here of being blind followers, you used "drive-by media", and went on to explain how following Rush's instructions has changed your life?
I do.
No he wasnt taken out of context. YES he DID say what MMFA reported he said. No matter what comes through the lines of Limborg communication I suggest you TRY thinking for yourself and STOP repeating the nonsensical BS the Oxymoron keeps telling you to think
The Smear has started. I should not have to explain. As you know your guilt. But for those of you who want to believe anything and want to trip up truth detectors. Wishful thinking is all you have. "Phony Soldiers" (taken out of context) referred to the so called soldier that your kind latched on to and believed his lies about soldiers torturing civilians in Iraq. The problem is your soldier darling that only served in the military 44 days and never made it overseas before he wimped out.
That being said, I nor Rush as well has no problem with soldiers speaking out against the War. I have my concerns as well. But don't latch on to a lying soldier "phony soldier" and say "see what our soldiers do. They are nothing but plunderers." Stop taking comments out of context.
On a side note. I can't wait to publish my book that will prove once and for all that Democrats and Liberals are the true Racists of the country. Think about your policies and what it has done and remember when you point one finger at someone about racism there are two fingers pointing back at you. Liberals the true Racists.
when you point one finger at someone about racism there are two fingers pointing back at you. - tkremark
Actually, there's three.But that was the least stoopid thing in your post.
And let us know when that book comes out.Pay your proofreader a lot.
You are a liar and a fool treemark. The Limborg has infected your already substandard brain. Back away from the crackpipe you have NO braincells to spare. NOTHING was taken out of context. Learn to READ. Just because the Oxymoron says it doesnt make it true. He KNOWS you are totally brainwashed and lies to you with impunity. You are a moron. There is hope for you but if you continue to pollute your brain with unadulterated ignorance from sources like the Oxymoron you will be lost.
You guys are wack, I listened to the show. Media Matters has a way of doing their own edits to fit their left wing slant. Get real.
Limbagh calling anyone a phony soldier is laughable! I would like to see his DD214...
Michael McNally
aka devinsbuddy