Coulter: "I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch"
On the October 11 broadcast of Steve Malzberg's WOR (New York) radio show, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter stood by her recent comment -- documented by Media Matters for America -- that "we" Christians "just want Jews to be perfected." She made that statement on the October 8 edition of CNBC's The Big Idea, during which host Donny Deutsch later said, "I'm offended by that personally." On Malzberg's show, Coulter defended her remarks by saying that she had "stated the ... doctrine of Christianity," and that the idea that Christians "want Jews to be perfected" "comes from that raging anti-Semite St. Paul." She added: "I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch," and later asked, referring to Deutsch, "Is that guy even bar mitzvahed?"
During the October 8 Big Idea, Deutsch asked Coulter: "If you had your way ... and your dreams, which are genuine, came true ... what would this country look like?" Coulter responded, "It would look like New York City during the [2004] Republican National Convention. In fact, that's what I think heaven is going to look like." She then described the convention: "People were happy. They're Christian. They're tolerant. They defend America." Deutsch then asked, "It would be better if we were all Christian?" Coulter replied, "Yes," later adding, "[W]e just want Jews to be perfected, as they say."
Discussing those comments on The Steve Malzberg Show, Coulter, after asserting she had stated the "doctrine of Christianity," said, "Apparently, as we're always told in church, but you don't always ... see it, Christianity is a radical and offensive doctrine. But I think -- we'll see. I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch." When Malzberg read her a Fox News headline of a story on the controversy, "Columnist Ann Coulter shocks cable TV show declaring ... Jews need to be perfected by becoming Christians," Coulter responded, "Right. That comes from that raging anti-Semite St. Paul."
Coulter later said: "People who have no knowledge of religion should not, for one thing, probably talk about it, but should certainly not go around getting their noses out of joint about it. But if anybody's going to be offended by anyone's religion -- we believe their religion. They don't believe ours."
Malzberg, who replied that he is Jewish, then said, "[S]o, I just want to make it clear for people out there that you're not telling Jews, 'Jews, you need to convert to Christianity,' are you?" Coulter replied, "Well, all Christians would want -- of course, a Christian would like everybody to become a Christian. I'm not going to slit your throat over it." Later on the program, when Malzberg asked, "And you have no problems with Jewish people," Coulter replied, "I'm a Christian," then said, "Well, I apparently now have a problem with one Jewish person, Donny Deutsch. Is that guy even bar mitzvahed?"
From the October 11 broadcast of WOR Radio Network's The Steve Malzberg Show:
MALZBERG: All right, there's lots going on. Again, you said something -- you appeared on the Donny Deutsch show -- in the last hour, I tried to explain who Donny Deutsch was. He has a show on CNBC -- nobody watches it. It gets probably the lowest ratings since the John McEnroe show, but yet because he's a rich advertising magnate, I guess, you know, they manage to keep him on somehow. Maybe he finds advertising, or he puts it on. But, nonetheless, you were on, last night, I guess?
COULTER: No. It was --
MALZBERG: You taped it today?
COULTER: Last week.
MALZBERG: Oh, last week! OK, see it took a week for them to see -- for anybody to see this. And you made some comments about that the country --
COULTER: Christianity. I stated the --
MALZBERG: Yes, the country would be --
COULTER: -- doctrine of Christianity.
MALZBERG: Yes.
COULTER: Apparently, as we're always told in church, but you don't always -- you don't always see it, Christianity is a radical and offensive doctrine. But I think -- we'll see. I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch.
MALZBERG: Well, let me just say what they -- what Fox News' headline is: "Columnist Ann Coulter shocks cable TV show declaring" -- by going on it maybe --
COULTER: Right.
MALZBERG: -- "declaring Jews need to be perfected by becoming Christians."
COULTER: Right. That comes from that raging anti-Semite St. Paul.
MALZBERG: So, but what --
COULTER: This is a straight statement of Christian doctrine. You can look it up. One of my friends just emailed me from the Oxford University definition -- it's on [the blog] Sweetness and Light -- this is what Christians believe. We believe the Old Testament, and we think the New Testament completes that. I mean, the Old Testament is obviously anticipating some Christ coming. Jews say, "Not that Christ" --
MALZBERG: The Messiah.
COULTER: -- "you got the wrong one."
MALZBERG: Not -- Right, right.
COULTER: Yeah, we worship -- our savior is a Jew. They say our savior was a raving lunatic, but I was just saying that the New -- we consider, when Jews become Christians, that is becoming a perfected Jew. And that is precisely the theological term.
People who have no knowledge of religion should not, for one thing, probably talk about it, but should certainly not go around getting their noses out of joint about it. But if anybody's going to be offended by anyone's religion -- we believe their religion. They don't believe ours.
MALZBERG: Well, and I'm Jewish. So, I mean -- so, I just want to make it clear for people out there that you're not telling Jews, "Jews, you need to convert to Christianity," are you?
COULTER: Well, all Christians would want -- of course, a Christian would like everybody to become a Christian. I'm not going to slit your throat over it.
MALZBERG: Well, that's another story, yes.
COULTER: This is part of -- of course a Christian would want all -- everyone to become a Christian.
MALZBERG: Well, not all Christians. I mean, I --
COULTER: Well, there are Gentiles and there are Christians.
MALZBERG: OK. All right. So, is what you're doing is stating what you feel is the literal doctrine of the religion.
COULTER: Yes, and moreover, I mean, as I pointed out, since we believe the Old Testament --
MALZBERG: Right.
COULTER: -- [Rev. Jerry] Falwell himself has said this -- that we believe that Jews can go to heaven by following the Old Testament. It's a much harder road to hoe: The Old Testament is the God of laws. There are laws that have to be followed.
MALZBERG: Well, see that's the problem. That's why a lot of Jews don't want or welcome evangelical support, those who support Israel -- the Christians who support Israel -- because they say, "Well, they want Israel to exist just until Jesus comes back in their view, and then all the Jews are going to be killed if they don't convert to Christianity. We don't need friends like that." And I say, if you're Israel and Jews, you can't pick your friends. I mean, just accept the support for the country and for your religion and just let the chips fall where they may afterwards.
COULTER: Right, and if I could just straighten something out --
MALZBERG: Yeah.
COULTER: -- on the Armageddon thing.
MALZBERG: Yeah.
COULTER: It's not -- although, I'm constantly having non-Christians tell me that Christians support Israel because we're looking forward to Armageddon. Nobody wants to live through that. That would be a horrible thing to wish for. It's going to be an ugly time.
The reason, at least as far as I understand it, Christians support Israel, is because Jews are the chosen people, because this is in the Bible --
MALZBERG: Right.
COULTER: -- that Israel will always exist. I mean, you go back to the Old Testament, read about all these tribes, they don't exist anymore. It is proof that the Bible -- it is one of many, many, many, many proofs that the Bible is true, that Israel still exists.
MALZBERG: And you have no problems with Jewish people.
COULTER: Of --
MALZBERG: I'm just asking you that so you can --
COULTER: I'm a Christian.
MALZBERG: I understand that.
COULTER: Well, I apparently now have a problem with one Jewish person, Donny Deutsch. Is that guy even bar mitzvahed?
MALZBERG: I don't know. We're talking to, of course, Ann Coulter, on The Steve Malzberg Show.
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Coulter is digging herself in deeper ... but why can't any media that cover this outrage offer the views of a Christian theologian (I can think of a few, and I'm not religious) to say she's full of crap? Instead, she gets to spout, and her interviewers sputter, and the uninformed viewer might think, "Well, she's got a point ..." Ideally, of course, she wouldn't have a forum at all.
My theory is that the media often can't offer the views of a real Christian theologian because the real theologians think that contributing to Skeletor's notoriety in such a way will not serve Christianity positively, regardless of how eloquently they rebut her statements.
Or maybe because she's right?? But no no let's not entertain that possibility. We're liberals, after all...tolerant of all opinions except the ones we DONT LIKE.
Right about what?
That Christians believe that one must accept Christ to be saved. It is undeniable that this is part of Christian dogma.
Is the notion that America would be better if it was a Christian nation, as AC expressed, also a matter of Christian dogma? Where in the Bible is that?
Part of the Christian doctrine is that we should try to convert as many people to Christianity as possible. That's why we have missionaries. We are supposed to go out and preach the good news of Christ. So of course Christians should want everybody to become a Christian and enter the kingdom of heaven.
But where's the part that says you're not perfect until you do?
Hello, where's the part that says you're perfect if you DO? We are all sinners in the eyes of God, Christian or not. There is nothing perfected about Christianity, and anyone who reads the bible's view on humanity knows that Coulter's statement is hogwash. All have sinned and fallen short. ALL. How these people can pretend that Coulter is actually spitting out some form of dogma is stupefying - do their read their own book?
And that's what I was getting at. Here I was thinking that accepting Jesus was the path to salvation, but as Coulter sells it, it's the path to perfection.
Don't stumble over semantics. To be "perfected" is not to mean that a human is a perfect being, that will never happen. Perfection is a spiritual state, only to be realized after death.
I agree. Coulter was wrong to say that. Christians aren't perfect either. We're all sinners, Christian or not. It's just that Christians have accepted Jesus' free gift and have had their sins washed away. But Christians definetely aren't perfect. Everybody messes up from time to time.
It's just that Christians have accepted Jesus' free gift and have had their sins washed away.
If I sin and then afterwards say "Praise Jesus" will I be saved?
Loonz, you just have to say it before you die. So remember... timing is everything. :>)
I'll remember that.
But seriously, it looks like one could sin all week then go to church on Sunday and have all those sins washed away.
Bingo...exactly!! Sweet deal, huh? The trick is not getting hit by a truck on your way to Church on Sunday.
George Spiggott (as the Devil) about Mussolini in the original (and much better) Bedazzled: "All that work, then right at the end with his last breath he says, 'Scusi, mille regretti,' and up he goes!"
Actually a lot of Christians/Catholics live their lives that way. I remember a few aunts complaining about a certain relative's bad behavior all week, and then sarcastically saying, "Yea but he'll hit the rail on Sunday and all will be well." I didn't get it when I was little. Later I understood. Do anything and everything you want...and then on Sundays, just praise Jesus, go to church, take communion and you are saved.
You just have to make a legitimate attempt not to sin. Nobody's perfect. Everybody messes up from time to time. But you should at least try to run away from sin, even if you fail from time to time. You can sin occasionally and still be a Christian, but you just can't live a sinful lifestyle.
but if you don't "believe", you're going to burn on that fiery lake for eternity. boy, i've heard of holding grudges, but that god guy...
We deserve to go to hell because of the sins we've committed. Jesus came down to earth to save us from our sins; it was the ultimate act of mercy. All you have to do is believe. God didn't make it hard for us to get to heaven.
we went through this before. you're asking me to "believe" a book that says a flood covered the highest mountains on earth. meanwhile a guy floated around for months with a boat full of two of every animal on earth. and according to you, if someone does not "believe", then they go to the fire.
That's a "perfect" remark. Its available for even the meanest intellect. I wonder how many critics of Jesus here have made a serious study of the Bible.
I have.
I was a raised in the church, and I was a devout, sincere believer for 35 years.
Now I'm an Atheist. Mostly because I actually read the entire Xtian bible front to back.
Here's your religion in a nutshell:
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie will make you immortal if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood and telepathically communicate to him that you accept him as your master so that he may remove an ancient curse on your "soul" that was put there because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit of a magic tree.
Sounds a silly as $cientology, doesn't it.
It is. And it's just as stupid, ridiculous and false.
I could not have said it better myself.
Outstanding post! Kudos!
Hear, hear.
What sins would that be?
You are saying that basically a good person like say, Kind, helpful, caring, understanding, patient, and loving are some of the words that come to mind when asked to list the qualities of a good person. One usually knows a person is good by what they do, such as performing thoughtful deeds. Is going to burn in hell for eternity, if they don't beleive in the bible. or accept christ as thier personal savior. Thats rich! What kind of GOD would do that to a person who had been good all their life? This is what I find wrong with most religions, they are the way, the only way, and if you dont follow them you are damned. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Just like AC.
Loonz, let me give you an example of the mindset. A good friend of mine's wife died a few months ago after suffering irreperable brain damage and entering a vegetative state. She was basically a good-hearted person but could be a real manipulator. I liked her, though. She was kind to me. My firend is a very devout Catholic. He told some of us, with great relief, that before his wife died she had received the last rights and some other Catholic ritual that he said basically punched her ticket straight to heaven. I was glad for him that it gave him comfort but it struck me how child-like his faith was. I couldn't help but think that his wife's eternal fate was already determined before she lapsed into a vegetative state. If we possess eternal souls and if there is an almighty power that determines the fate of our souls after our corporeal life ceases how could a mere ritual peformed on the body of a brain dead person determine the eternal fate of that person? It's irrational, but even some otherwise intelligent people subscribe to these beliefs. I guess I'm not hard-wired for that type of faith. My friend's beliefs are harmless to me. But when some people attempt to impose religious beliefs on others, particularly in a political sphere, then that does offend me. Religion should be personal. It should be private. If a person's religious beliefs tell her that heaven will look like a Republican convention she should keep those beliefs private. Ann Coulter said the 9/11 widows were fair game because they entered the political arena. Well, Ann Coulter is imposing her religious beliefs into the political arena in a very partisan way. Ann you are fair game.
That's actually quite true, and part of it all is that we do sin all week - it's not a matter of trying. Even after being saved, you're still sinning because it's part of human nature. This is why the blood of christ is like a river, or a fountain - it HAS to be because we need continual cleansing.
Free gift? You pay a huge price.....your mind.
You're forgetting the part about the redemption offered with Christ's sacrifice. Sure we're all sinners, but perfection is not of our own doing, its by the vicarious suffering and death of Christ.
"...we should try to convert as many people to Christianity as possible."
All I can say is that Ann is doing a very poor job of converting people to Christianity. Maybe if she displayed the least bit of kindness to other people...I think there's some stuff like that in the Bible. It sounds to me as though Ann Coulter wants America to be a Christian nation populated with Christians who act like her. A scary thought, indeed...
BTW, I'm having trouble finding that part in the Bible about heaven looking like a Republican convention.
Funny thing about that... Isn't that what Al Quaeda wants? To convert everyone to their religion?
To compare Christianity (even in its extreme forms) with Al Qaeda is disingenuous at best.
Is it?
Both Extremist Christianity and Extremist Islam (as embodied by Al Qaeda and the Taliban) seek to forcibly convert ALL of mankind to their particularly skewed view of life and death.
Both Extremist Christianity and Extremist Islam favor brutal death and torture for the 'infidel' who dares to hold faith apart from the things THEY proclaim as true.
Both Extremist Christianity and Extremist Islam offer up ridiculously material, unproven rewards in the afterlife (when material rewards will be somewhat...superfluous, at best) for their 'martyrs'...Die for Jesus/Allah and you will have mansions of gold/70 virgins in Heaven/Paradise!'
Both Extremist Christianity and Extremist Islam have left a long and hideous record of human rights atrocities behind them, and continue to add to those atrocities even today.
At best, the differences lie in the exact level of zeal apparent in the adherent. American Christian Extremists are, frankly and often, too fat, lazy and stupid to be properly motivated into blowing up the infidel.
We Americans have too much to take for granted (fast food on every corner, American Idol and Survivor on TV, Wal*Mart's everywhere to supply poorly-made crap on the cheap as long as you don't think about where it comes from) to really take risks and take stands the way those who have nothing (Islamic Extremists from the dirty arse of the world) seem perfectly willing to do.
After all, when you have nothing in this world but dirt and disease and despair and are promised riches beyond compare in the next world, who WOULDN'T strap on bombs/a sniper rifle and go nuts on the 'infidels'?
Take a look at this article, if I read it correctly it says most christian churches have broken from the dogma that Ann is trying to sell. The christian church doesn't have her back...
That isnt what she said and no she ISNT right. She said Jews need to be perfected. That is they arent good enough as they are and need to believe as she does or they are a few rungs down the evolutionary ladder from her perfected self.
Solon;
AC didn't say anything of the kind (that Jews are lower on the evolutionary ladder than herself). What she did say is that salvation (to the Jew first & also to the gentile) comes through faith in Jesus Christ. It's straight Bible. However, most Jewish Christians that I am aware of call themselves 'completed' Jews.
It sounds as if Ms. Coulter doesn't believe in evolution, again a Biblical position.
No that ISNT what she said. She said they wanted Jews to be perfected by believing the way SHE does. That is HER interpretation of the bible and perhaps yours. What it says is that SHE is better than them because of what SHE believes. Otherwise they wouldnt need to be perfected. So yeah she pretty much said they were a few rungs down on the ladder from her exhalted self. I personally think PONDSCUM is several rungs on the evolutionary ladder from the Gangleskank, because of how she acts and the way she treats people whatever her religion is.
Maybe????
Why the waffling? Do you think she's right?
Are you one of the Christians that want Jews to be perfected?
What is she right about? She smears Gays, Jews and 9/11 widows. Is she right about that?
We're liberals, after all...tolerant of all opinions except the ones we DONT LIKE.
Observer - I believe you are confusing 'liberals' with 'evangelical christians'
Don't worry about it, common mistake.
Tolerant of opinions? Sure - but being tolerant does not mean coddling opinions that are wrong. It means letting a person speak and then pointing out what's wrong about it. You know, that whole freedom of speech thing that you guys keep saying we're trying to take away.
One thing liberals are notoriously tolerant of are lies and misinformation. If you couch your "opinion" in these things, expect your "opinion" to be torn apart like a ragdoll among rabid chihuahuas.
I have never once been enlightened by the opinions of a Christian who felt compelled to gratuitously share his/her religious beliefs with me. I was raised as a Christian. As an adult I have studied the origins and development of Christianity. I know Christianity...which is why I honestly cannot fully buy into the program. For that matter, I find it difficult to buy into any organized religion.
If someone finds peace of mind through religion then I am happy for him. But I was taught that religion was a personal matter which one kept to himself...and that it was impolite to prosthletize. Keep it to yourself unless you want to hear my opinions...opinions which you may not like to hear.
I cannot second what you say more. I grew up Catholic, became "born again" in my teens and went to a heavily evangelistic/born again/spirit-led "non denominational" church and tried to save as many as I could. It took only seeing one particularly hypocritical stance of the church for me to realize that something was very, very wrong about the way this religion was being presented in this nation. I haven't looked back since, and I have stopped talking to family members when they refuse to stop trying to convert me back.
Once you walk away from this particular bug, it's very difficult to tolerate the BS any longer.
"Once you walk away from this particular bug, it's very difficult to tolerate the BS any longer."
In a nutshell, that says it all. Totally agree...
I agree as well, as a recovering Methodist.
I agree about religion. But I wish crusading progressive liberals would apply it to their own narrow minded BELIEFS. The "holier than thou" OPINIONS on how much gas, money, or even toilet paper EVERYONE else should use are ALSO attempts to "perfect" others; and they are much more coercive.
I have to listen to "evangelizing" from them FAE more than anyone "has to" hear from Anne.
I too have studied the bible and its historical context. While I was 'raised' in a Christian family, I have a real problem with those who blindly follow and never exercise any critical thinking skills. I am constantly amazed by the fact that I seem to know more about the bible and Christianity than those who claim to be 'Christians"! Just mention the Apocryphal Texts that were excluded from the bible after the Council of Nicaea and watch the believers look at you with that deer in the headlights glare! I'm also a scientist and believe me, I don't take everything I hear from the scientific community as gospel...I use my brain! Something the sheeple are incapable of! And please don't reply that these same people are just relying on faith...If that's the case why are they always trying to prove the historical reality of the Bible? How many true believers have tried to find the real location of Noah's Ark? This is a case where the most basic of cognitive skills should come into play! Is it possible to have 2 of every animal that has ever existed on a boat that is the size described in the Old Testament? Of course not...Unless Noah had some sort of shrink ray! And don't even get me started on Dinosaurs...Can't have it both ways simpletons!
As a Jew who finds AC despicable, I think she may be right, given the fact that she is living in the Fifteenth Century. Supercessionism was the official position of the Catholic (and other Christian) churches until fairly recently. The entire concept of a "New Testament" implies that Christianity is the"perfection" of the older Jewish faith. One need only wander through the Vatican, observing paintings of new shoots sprouting from old, dead trees to see this concept in concrete terms.
Of course, supercessionism is only enjoyable if you are the ones doing the superceding. Christians are not happy with the Muslim doctrine the Islam is the "perfection" of both Judaism and Christianity. Unlike most Christians, however, Muslims have not renounced force as a means of attaining this perfection.
Twodox, thank you for enlightening us on this point. What you state is 100 percent correct. A point that evades many. Islam, in the eyes of its adherants is the third and final revelation of the one true god. They consider the new testament corrupted and agree with Jews that Jesus was a prophet as opposed to divine.
They, like Christians, believe that they are supposed to spread the word of God. Neither to the best of my knowledge advocate forced conversion. But I could be wrong on that point. If someone knows otherwise I'd love to have that clarified. But because each one faith considers itself "the final word' there exist a natural conflict that has afflicted the entire world with ignorance and arrogance.
The Christian right (and Coulter) with their political ambitions are no different than the Taliban in what they aim to accomplish; Namely a theocratic state.
"The Christian right (and Coulter) with their political ambitions are no different than the Taliban in what they aim to accomplish; Namely a theocratic state"
Except that we don't try to kill people to convert them to our beliefs. And we don't believe in a state sponsored religion. We believe that people should be able to practice any religion they wish. We are 100% against religious persecution. We simply don't want the atheists to get all mentions of God out of the public square. Because a nation without God is a nation that will fail.
Were it that simple, Rino... On the contray, the agenda of the religious right has been to incrementally impose fundamentalist Christian beliefs into the fabric of American life including the laws that govern us. I have heard religious leaders express that notion.
Which group was instrumental in electing, and re-electing, an incompetent president in order to gain Supreme Court Justices amneable to overturning Roe v. Wadw?
Which group favors the display of religious icons on government property in order to gain a foothold legal argument that America is a Christian nation?
Which group would undermine our educational system by teaching religious creation beliefs as pure science?
Which group opposed, until recently, any rational environmental considerations such as the threat of global warming because religious leaders politicized the isses and denounced those who advocated taking steps to combat the potentially cataclysmic effects?
Which group would marginalize people because of their sexual orientation with which they were born?
Which group supported the settlement of so-called "holy lands" by fundamentalist Israeli Jews in Palestine, thus exacerbating the long-standing conflict in the Middle East, because of ancient Biblical scritpure?
I could go on but my fingers may give out...
Rino, you may be nice guy...I don't know you. But you are naive if you think the right wing Christian movement is a benign group only interested in saving souls. It's about power, Rino...power to impose its religious will on others.
Well said, Irony.
Irony 101 FTW...*high fives and quotes for truth*
Except that we don't try to kill people to convert them to our beliefs. - RINOHUNTER
Yeah...not yet anyway. You have to do it in steps. The first step is to force this country into a theocracy. Then, it's forced conversion, with the loss of rights for all 'non-Christians'. We've seen this happen before. The Christian right can take their theocratic aims and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. This country will become a theocracy over my (and many others who love this country) dead body.
It's bad enough that we have to endure the right-wing's assault on logic and reality, but now they want to force everyone to believe in some shady ghost who cannot even show himself? Get real.
Real Christians won't be offended by my post, as they are secure in their beliefs. On the other hand, people like our friend RINOHUNTER will be angry and call for our heads.
When was the last time you heard of Muslims killing someone because they wanted them to convert? In Iraq, for example, they're not fighting over whether people should convert from Sunni to Shi'a or Shi'a to Sunni, but rather over who should be in control. I think Islam has this forced conversion reputation because that's how it originally spread out of Mecca and Medina - the Muslims would go out, get some booty, and give the conquered people a chance to convert in order to expand the empire - but I don't know if it holds true today.
I went to Morocco for study abroad and no one tried to convert me, forcefully or otherwise. Most Muslims just don't care. They consider Christians and Jews people of the book, and according to Muhammad (PbUH), people of the book are ok. Notice I'm talking about Muslims in general, and obviously this doesn't apply to the radicals. But if you talked to, say, a Palestinian, and offered a choice of a) some land, a job, and some security to raise a family or b) the conversion of a few Texans to Islam, they're going to go with option a.
Exactly its more hivemind propaganda. The Koran says directly 'There is no coercion in religion' [ Koran 2:256 ]
Wino,
"Except that we don't try to kill people to convert them to our beliefs."
Coutler: "we should kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" Try explaining that to a young jihadist who picks up that drivel on the net or on Al Jazeera. And how many innocent civilians have really died as a result of our "liberating them?"
"And we don't believe in a state sponsored." religion. I beg your pardon?
“I hope to live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won’t have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!” -Jerry Falwell
We believe that people should be able to practice any religion they wish. Ummm, I think that's the case now, except in some instances involving animal and ritual sacrifice.
We are 100% against religious persecution.
Unless that person is a Jew, Mormon, or Catholic or Muslim, or Buddhist, or Hindu, or . . . you get my point.
"We simply don't want the atheists to get all mentions of God out of the public square."
That's a straw man. Aetheists, with some extreme exceptions could care less about your religous beliefs, they just don't want yours or ANYONE ELSES imposed on them. That seems reasonable to a lot of people.
"Because a nation without God is a nation that will fail." Pure opinion and impossible to refute and confirm since it's based on faith not reason.
"We believe that people should be able to practice any religion they wish."
Speak for yourself, RINO. I've spoken with fundamentalist Christians who believe it's ok to kill Arabs because they don't believe in Jesus.
>>Except that we don't try to kill people to convert them to our beliefs.
Overlooking the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, and oh yes Ms. Coulter's own previous remarks ...
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
http://www.nationalreview.com/coulter/coulter.shtml
"liberals... tolerant of all opinions except the ones we DONT LIKE."
You don't seem to like or to be very tolerant of ours.
"But no no let's not entertain that possibility."
Okay, just for grins, I'll entertain the possibility that Annie is right. Here goes...............
..........Sorry, she's still full of crap.
"Or maybe because she's right??" - InterestingObserver
Yes, so far to the right she makes Atilla the Hun look like a pinko.
hahahaha.... hahahaha.... HAHAHAHAHA!! Finally the truth!
Cuz, they love it.... They love this mud-slinging nastiness... It's like when the 15 yo redneck lover of the mother-of-5 picks up a chair and throws it at (insert crappy daytime talk show host here)'s head... they all just see dollar signs.
Coulter is a moron... her so-called 'controversy' is contrived and tantamount to 3rd-grade taunting... it isnt even good! The fact that she has the gall to call anyone 'stupid' is priceless.
Annie Loves to Speak Her Mind and shock folks into buying her Rags.. uh ... Books.
Well, I like to speak my mind Too,
Cause Roses are Red & Violets are Blue,
And Do I love Annie Coulter True ?
To that I must say PEW!
*****************
I Love her Not! That is Clear,
And Of her God, I have no Fear,
So I shall chime in right Here,
If she wins in 08 I'll shed a Tear,
****************
If she thinks the winner will be a Perfect Annie,
I’ll just confidently exclaim, (Kiss My cute Fannie!)
***************
If you thinks her to be of religious perfection,
Your thoughts are in the wrong Direction!
***************
Let's take back our country in "08!"
For that's when Annie stops her "Oh!-Hate!"
Hope is alive with victory as our Fate!
That's my story. I'm sticken to it! Sam-I-Am
I'ts fitting that she's on her current rampage! She's got to sell that new rag of a book. More importantly, it's the season of the Bitch, Uh... Oh, I mean the Witch! Halloween is upon us. This is her time to spook us all up.
She cracks me all up with laughter! You go girl....Keep hurting you own cause!
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
Ah yes, Ann Coultler the THEOLOGIN!! Please if you think that Ann walks in the path of Christ, you need re-examine your faith!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
Amen to that, brother!
I don't think most Christians are a humorless as Ann Coulter.
"The reason, at least as far as I understand it, Christians support Israel, is because Jews are the chosen people, because this is in the Bible --"
What a load of crap. Christians like Ann Coulter "support" Israel because they believe the fairy tales in Revelation...they don't want to be caught on the wrong side when Jesus comes surfing down on his cloud to smite the armies of evil.
"It is proof that the Bible -- it is one of many, many, many, many proofs that the Bible is true, that Israel still exists."
Oh...I see. The fact that a bunch of Christian politicians decided to re-establish Israel after WWII proves that the Earth is only 6,000 years old? Hallelujah!
There's definitely too little religion mixed into American politics. Good thing to see Ann is on it. With a little luck, if we keep this going, in less than a few decades we too can hope to have some religious wars in this country.
You have to admire the patience and tolerance of radical Christians in this country, putting up with all the Jews, Muslims and secular progressives. All the radical Christians want is to take their country back and establish the theocracy that the founding fathers really intended. <sarcasm>
Several Years ago in 2004.........Patrick Henry CollegeVA. - An institution that intends to have a significant impact on the future leadership of the country has been quietly growing in Purcellville and will graduate its first full four-year class of students this month.
Patrick Henry Bible College is not your ordinary school of higher learning. "The campus is immaculate, everyone is clean-cut and cheerful. The students about 75% of who have been taught at home rather than in schools - are required to sign a statement of faith before they arrive, confirming (among other things) that they have a literal belief in the teachings of the Bible."
They are trained with extremist view to "lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values".
What's even more interesting about Patrick Henry College according to Andrew Buncombe, is that "this spring, of the almost 100 interns working in the White House, seven are from Patrick Henry. Another intern works for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign, while another works for President George Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove. Yet another works for the coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad. Over the past four years, 22 conservative members of Congress have employed one or more Patrick Henry interns.""Before being hired by Patrick Henry, all members of the teaching faculty, too, have to sign a pledge stating that they share a generally literalist belief in the Bible."Even the biology staff must hold a "literal view specifically of the six-day creation story."Locally, Patrick Henry also enjoys support from the board of supervisors. Board members Eugene Delgaudio (R-Sterling) and Lori Waters (R-Broad Run) sponsored a resolution commending Farris on the occasion of PHC’s upcoming graduation. In addition to being a prominent figures in conservative Republican politics, as director of the “pro-family” Eagle Forum, Waters also has a PHC student, Danny Davis, for an intern. Mike Hengemuhle, another PHC student, is an assistant to Supervisor Stephen J. Snow (R-Dulles).What I find most alarming about PHC is it's Strategic Intelligence Program (SIP). It's curricula is directly tied into developing "careers in the intelligence community (Central Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, etc.), domestic counter-terrorism and law enforcement (Department of Homeland Security, Federal Bureau of Investigations, etc.), and diplomacy (Foreign Service, State Department, etc.). These graduates will eventually work their way into positions to positively influence and shape this increasingly important part of our culture."While PHC links to the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court have been documented, Farris could not provide information as to how many students in the school’s Strategic Intelligence Program, which started this year, have internships with the CIA, the FBI or the nation’s other intelligence agencies.In the fall semester, SIP students toured some of the most secure intelligence facilities in the entire United States (as per our agreements, we may not disclose the names of these 3-letter agencies), and they were invited to observe training exercises at the FBI Training Academy in Quantico.”While the extent of their access to intelligence information is unknown, SIP students have enough information to pen “a weekly digest of all major drug, immigration, and security incidents at America's border crossings called the Border Security Alert. The BSA, produced entirely by Patrick Henry students, is distributed by subscription to national security professionals and is available to the intelligence and law enforcement communities through a classified network.”Eliot Jardines, Assistant Director of SIP at Patrick Henry said,"The preservation of our liberty requires constant vigilance. Who is going to do it? Who better than these young men and women...?" [On February 8, 2005, Mr. Eliot Jardines contacted VOF and advised us that he never uttered that statement. He also contacted Patrick Henry College and the quote has since been removed from the Patrick Henry College Website. ]
So, please do keep religion out of government, question is "HOW?"
So, being fair and balanced, the next time Faux News puts up a photo of Annie, the tagline will be "War on Jews" right?
I'm waiting for the Troglodytes to accuse MMFA of waging war on evangelicals, since Annie only wants to "witness" to those poor, hapless, misinformed Jews. Here it comes...
This Malzberg character sure seemed desperate to spin Coulter's words in a positive way.
"...so, I just want to make it clear for people out there that you're not telling Jews, "Jews, you need to convert to Christianity," are you?"
Um, yeah, that's exactly what she's saying.
"And you have no problems with Jewish people."
Um, yeah, obviously she does.
"They say our savior was a raving lunatic . . ."
No, but too many in his fan club are!
Malzberg: "I tried to explain who Donny Deutsch was. He has a show on CNBC -- nobody watches it. It gets probably the lowest ratings ... they manage to keep him on somehow. Maybe he finds advertising, or he puts it on."
After that intro and complimentary, fair words about Deutsch that weren't meant as a put-down whatsoever, you just know that world-renowned household name Malzberg's interview of Coulter will be very, very objective and fair.
"I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch."
So, Ann, only a minority (49%?) of Jews are as stupid as Danny Deutsch? I'm glad you cleared that up. For a minute I thought you were being offensive to Jews.
BTW, when did Ann Coulter become a theologian? Or do radical Christians all consider themselves theologians? They certainly seem to feel obliged to gratuitously voice their opinions on matters of religion. My view is that unless they wish to be insulted by those of us who are perhaps more enlightened and enjoy a more "perfected" state of religious non-beleif, then they should keep their mouths shut and practice their religion in their homes and churches. Personally, I'm tired of hearing radical Christians spout off their unenlightened beliefs. The Bible is not the final authority...sorry.
While I can't be certain, I strongly doubt the sincerity of Annie's "piety". Personally, I think her GOP sugardaddies have dispatched her to distract the Evangelicals in the GOP base. They're getting restless, what with the lack of a strong Jesus-freak among the presidential frontrunners...and the numerous moral scandals plaguing their party of choice. There's a risk that the GOP's most dependable voter block could stay home in disgust...which would spell disaster for the Republicans.
I'm am glad to know that she thinks most Jews are not AS stupid as Deutsch, but it sounds to me like she is saying that most Jews ARE stupid. Certainly she is saying that any Jew who is offended by her is stupid. How can anyone who TRIES to be so offensive remain on the air?
Richard, think about this, too... Does Ann Coulter believe present-day Jews are stupid for not accepting Chrsist as their messiah?
Irony, "Or do radical Christians all consider themselves theologians?" I don't think they know what a theologian is. But, they do go to worship at least once a week and most go to a bible study group where someone tells them which parts of the Bible to interpret literally and which parts are to be taken as a metaphor. Of course the details of that interpratation change to fit the political machinations of the times.
Here's a fun game to play with someone that starts spouting off about the Bible as if it is the most accurate accounting of history ever. Insist that they tell you where that Bible came from. The one they have in their hands that came from a factory owned by a for profit printing company. There is no way they can know the accuracy of the text unless they are willing to study the ancient languages the bible is based on. At which point they would learn that the word virgin, is a misinterpretation of the hebrew word for young lady, or young girl. The whole imaculate conception myth was made up hundreds of years later.
Pit, it is possible that everything in the New Testament is 100% accurate...but not very likely. Belief in the Bible is a matter of faith...and it should remain that way, a personal matter of belief or nonbelief, just as religion should remain a personal matter for each individual. Political master plans, the election of political leaders, the setting of international boundaries should not be determined by a purely spiritual document.
Irony,
"... it is possible that everything in the New Testament is 100% accurate...but not very likely."
I'm afraid it's not even possible. Take, for instance, the well-known story of the Good Thief on Calvary.
"Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
"Amen, amen I say to you, this day you shall be with me in Paradise."
Well that's one of three versions the four evangelists tell. One tells it that way, one says that both thieves abused Jesus, and one doesn't mention thieves at all. Actually, two of them choose one of those options, but I've forgotten which. It's been a long time. The point is, however, that two versions of that tale have to be wrong.
I was actually trying to be polite...
If someone elects to overlook the discrepancies and improbabilities in the Bible, and he/she finds peace of mind, that's fine. My point is that I don't need to hear about it or for someone to try to convince me that the Bible is the word of God.
"unless they are willing to study the ancient languages the bible is based on"
You mean...Jesus didn't speak King James English?
The white, blue-eyed jebus did.
Can the media please start ignoring her already? Oh, no. I forgot. We need to add to the spectacle that smothers the real...
media is murder
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/media-murder-t-shirt
Who left the cage door unlocked?
Come on Ann back in your cage...come on girl.
Slam...lock.
Sorry about that folks ;-)
J2, due to your negligence, several talk show hosts now need rabies shots.
The more I read about her and her hateful statements, the more I just want her to go away and stay away . This Malzberg guy is a real hatemonger too. These people are pathetic.
She really is absolute scum. From where do people like her come? I wish they would just crawl back there.
Of course... the wingnuts will come on here screaming about 'sarcasm', 'humour', and 'context' and how we libs have 'no sense of humour' and how we must 'get over it'. Yeah, just like the disgraced bully in school - when busted, he cries "I was only KIDDING!" The same tired worn-out excuse again and again.
Annie is a creation of the RightWing propaganda machine that was built to destroy Bill Clinton. She was one of the architects of the perjury trap they used to justify impeachment. The fact that she's getting rich now, peddling stupidity and hate, is her reward from the GOP powers-that-be. She's like the hitman that keeps coming back for more payments. They can't risk pissing her off, because she knows too much...so they keep feeding her.
Westport
Opps, sorry.
NY then New Canaan, CT
"They're Christian. They're tolerant. They defend America."
In effect...God bless America, except for the Jews, Muslims and secular progressives whom we are forced to tolerate.
Don't forget about the stupid liberal blacks, latinos, atheists, homosexuals, and um... females!!!
Yep, and there are probably other inferior groups, too...thus proving beyond doubt just how tolerant Christians are. I, for one, appreciate how tolerant Chrsitians are of me. In another day and age I might have been tortured until I admitted committing heresy and then burned alive. ;>)
Ann Coulter would not understand Christianity if it walked up and bit her in the adams apple.
(PS -who let's her out on these day passes without any medication? That's just cruel)
Now we know where the forbidden apple from the Garden of Eden ended up, in the throat of the serpent.
LOL! Brilliant!
Coulter seems so sure of how Christianity is perfect, yet clueless on how to practice it. Sorry Annie, wearing the cross around your neck is like the flag pins, support the troop stickers and all the other false crap out there, not to be believed....
Many fundamentalists, regarless of religion seem of a similar outlook on their fellows. I feel many cannot contain their rage. Though carefull misinterpretations of their religions teaching they find a population to hate and hurt, perhaps kill. The endorphens raging though their brains as they act out their fantacies, are easily interpreted as a holy religeous experience. It feels so good, getting back into that space becomes their life, like any drug addict, and its never quite as good as the first time.
I know I an going to get in trouble for this question. But why have Howard Kurtz and the other pundits just come to the realization that Ann Coulter is a repungnent human being? She has spent the last several years vilifying almost every segment of the progressive population, and has had almost unfettered access to spew her hate on the Network and Cable television shows, with little or no recrimination from the talking heads. That is until she added Jews to her list of people, who, in Coulters own words, are less then perfect. I would hope that if Coulter's fifteen minutes of fame (shame) have finely come to an end, it is because of the damage she has done to all the tergets of her hate, not just the latest victims.
Donny Deutsch is an idiot. Christains do believe that one has to accept Jesus to be saved. Perfected or perfect is a good word to use. You have the human right to believe what you beleive. That does not make you right. And most Religions believe "they" are right and all others are wrong. What's the point Donny?
"What's the point Donny?"
It's insulting to be told to your face by someone that your religious beliefs are wrong and that his/hers are correct. By its very nature religion is a matter of personal faith. Religious doctrine, or the correctness of one religion versus another, cannot be proven. Why insult people?
The point is that Coulterskank pretends to represent a certain segment of Republicans, and she just offended a group that includes some powerful and influential people...many who happen to be Republicans. Just imagine the outrage if Al Franken appeared on a talk show and stated that Jesus was a phony messiah. He would only be stating his religious beliefs, after all.
MajorMom,
I am guessing if a Jewish person approached you on national television and told you that Jesus was a false prophet and that he/she was just looking out for you, you might be offended as well.
Annie must answer this question....If LIBERALS are godless then they are not Christians...then exactly who is expecting this perfection of the Jews? Guess I can answer that....Liberals equal not Chirstians, then Conservatives are Godfull so she speaks of her own kind.
Now I understand...NOT
Yes, Ann and that Hagee character want Jews to be perfected out of existence. Why would that offend DD?
Is the notion that America would be better if it was a Christian nation, as AC expressed, a matter of Christian doctrine? I don't recall reading that in the Bible...
Well, you know...Rome became a Christian nation, then it collapsed. Coincidence? Could be...but then...who knows?
Yes it is, it's 2 Timothy 3:12.
Oh, wait, that's the one that says that being persecuted is part of being good Christians. Nevermind.
My guess is that you really can't appreciate the irony of your statement. Just a guess.
Perfected or perfect is only a good word to use if you haven't read the bible. There is nothing perfect about man, saved or not. You can say they are cleansed, you can say they are saved, but they are neither perfect nor perfected.
I'm beginning to understand fundamentalist xtian arrogance - regardless of what their book says, they think they're walking perfection. F'n lovely.
OK and if the guy next door to you tells you that he worships the red and gold frog that jumped into his yard last week and he is just flat better than you because YOU havent been perfected by understanding the Glory of the red and gold frog I guess you wouldnt be offended. That is fine. However if he tells his OTHER nextdoor neighbor that same thing it really isnt UP TO YOU whether or not HE should be offended. Annie is offensive. People have a right to see her remarks as offensive whether or not you see it that way.
Whenever I see her dribblings in a bookstore, I hide them deep in the humor section. Little chance of her fans ever finding her spew there.
Try this next time. Gather up a few hundred dollars worth of those giant books rich people like to leave casually scatterd around the living room, Ansle Adams collections, The Grand Canyon in pictures etc etc. The ones with pages so thick they almost qualify as lumber. Bring the stack up to the checkout counter and then ask in an annoying liberal cackle like voice, "oh, do you have Coulter's latest?" If they say yes, then you respond "Well, I'll just have to take my business elsewhere" Of course this will change nothing as regards the policy of the store carrying such tomes, but a whole generation of clerks will come to hate Coulter, which is a good thing.
LOL...I like that! I'm on my way to Barnes & Noble this moment. ;>)
Maybe Annie is right. Isn't it true that Jesus came as a Jew but left as a Catholic? :)
Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that Jesus came as a Jew but left as the iconic head of a non-taxable mega-enterprise. I'm sure Jesus would be pleased to see what his followers did to him. ;>)
Doubtful, though a testment to his love that some arn't thrown out of their churches. Redemption is always an option.
A soul willing to become a prophit for God has to look at the record of humanity getting it right, and shudder.
Think Buddha saw his teachings becoming the cult of warriors ? More than one time?
No. Jesus lived and died as a Jew. The term Catholic (which means universal as in a universal church,) is first found in the writings of St. Ignatius, about 110 A.D.
I guess that we can now say..that a Catholic (Universal) Church is the type of joint that keeps things moving. And I remember St. Ignatius...he wasn't "perfected" so what did he know.
"Jesus lived and died as a Jew."
But Jesus was baptized, right? And didn't Jesus incur the wrath of the Jewish hierarchy? And Jesus was a "perfected" Jew, right? So maybe we're in a grey area regarding Jesus' status as a Jew. Considering Ann's educating us all perhaps Christians should more accurately call themselves Perfected Jews.
Irony,
I think that is exactly what Ann was saying. Thanks for explaining it.
Coulter later said: "People who have no knowledge of religion should not, for one thing, probably talk about it, but should certainly not go around getting their noses out of joint about it. But if anybody's going to be offended by anyone's religion -- we believe their religion. They don't believe ours."
Right on Ann, oh wait..."We just want Jews to be perfected."
Damn it! I hate these HTML tags
Being 'perfected' is a simple theological term. It simply means that by believing in Jesus, one's faith has reached out to the ultimate truth which will lead one to salvation.
No one need be offended any more than if I say all people should be perfected by becoming Catholics. It is a statement I believe in, but I recognize that everyone has their own opinions and beliefs and many disagree.
I am not offended by people saying they don't believe in rthe Catholic teachings. I am not offended by people saying that I should be a Jew or for that matter expressing an opinion that I should be a Muslim. They are entitled to their opinion. I have had many interesting and fruitful discussions with people of many different faiths. I have found many similarities and agreements on small points while disagreements on big points.
It is my opinion that everyone here who chooses to be offended by Coulter's remarks are either ignorant of the theological meaning of 'perfected' or are simply using this occasion to express their contempt toward religion in general, and/or Christianity in particular. I am not offended by their religious view. I am somewhat taken back at the disrespectful tone some have expressed towards those of us who do have a religious belief.
"I am not offended by people saying that I should be a Jew or for that matter expressing an opinion that I should be a Muslim."
That where we differ. It's nobody's damn business whether I want to be a Christian, a Jew, a pagan, an atheist or somone who is just not sure whether, as humans, we are even capabale of comprehending the universal mysteries of our existence. Start telling me why I should be a Christian or a Jew, or anything else, and I'll tell you where to stick it. You're as annoying, and equally convincing, as an AMWAY sales rep.
I am happy for anyone who finds peace of mind in any organized religion or belief system. But if anyone is so arrogantly presumptuous to cast judgement on my belief system as being somehow inferior to theirs, they may expect me to be equally disrespectful, and perhaps more so, in return.
More particularly, the right wing Christians I have encountered on MMFA generally have a propensity to act as though the Bible is the unimpeachable arbiter of all matters. It's not...and when they would attempt to impose the Bible as the final word on all matters, even political, and to steer America into a theocratic nation, then I'm offended.
Irony,
Just a couple of reflections regarding your comments.
It is understood that it is nobodies business what your faith is but your own. However that doesn't stop people from proselytizing on faith or another. Very few mean you any disrespect. They simply believe in the teachings of Jesus and want to share "the good news".
Just think of religious dialog as similar to this website when you get in discussions and express your political opinion on threads that interest you. If you like, feel free to engage in dialog and debate. If you don't, most Christians will respect your opinion to not discuss religion. Save your disrespect for those that don't return the favor.
Yes, sometimes Christians use the Bible as their aribiter. You obviously disagree as to the truthfulness of the Bible, and that is fine, but to one who feels it is the unerring word of God, it is their ultimate source.
The problem with Christianity is that so much of what is written in the Bible is subject to interpretation. It is maddening for Christians as well as non-Christian alike.
So there is no need to be offended simply because someone has a religious point of view. Accept it or reject it as you see fit. Most Christians are sincere in their beliefs and only sharing what they believe to be, the word of God.
AA, what you don't appreciate is that many of us have already heard the "good news" and have purposely not adopted it as the basis of our existence. We are not "savages" living separated from civilization who need to be introduced to Christ. We have heard it all, including the insanity and hypocricy of many so-called people of faith. No thanks.
What offends me the most about the present "Christian" movement is that its leaders will not be satisfied until they have forced religion into our government and our way of life. I don't want children being taught the Bible as scientific fact. I don't want people persecuted because of their sexual orientation. I don't want international boundaries being established according to the Bible. I don't want to see the world destroyed by religious wars.
Christianity has the capability of doing good. Howevr, for reasons to numerous to state, IMO a Christian dominated America, with Christian leaders, is as potentially evil and harmful as the worst tyranical government one could imagine.
If I want religion, I'll it for myself, thank you. But, be forewarned, any attempts to push this current brand of Christianity on America is regarded by many as worth fighting against. You may think you represent goodness, but to many people you represent an irrational and dangerous perversion of what religion, man's relationship with God, should stand for. You are regarded as a part of a political movement not as pious people. That's why some of us don't want your brand of religion.
Irony,
We agree on many of the issues you put forth.
I understand you don't want to be 'preached' to by Christians to become Christian. I find no offense in people wanting to discuss it, but if you don't, that is your right. I don't know of anyone who thinks non-Christians are savages, but maybe you've run across some who do.
I for one, do not know of any Christian who wants the Bible taught in public schools as scientific fact. I don't know of any Christian who wants to persecute gays. The issue of Israels boundary is based on historical evidence even though it coincides with Biblical references.
I don't understand your objection to Christian leaders. Haven't all our President's been Christian? Are not most of our legislators? I do not see the problem with them being Christian threatening our country. Had Christians wanted to create a theocracy, they would have done so a long time ago.
I think many liberals would disagree with you that Christianity is part of of a political movement.
I for one, do not know of any Christian who wants the Bible taught in public schools as scientific fact. I don't know of any Christian who wants to persecute gays.
Maybe you just need to get your head out of the sand?
Misch,
Perhaps you'd like to cite your references where people want the Bible taught as scientific fact in public schools?
Before we go down that route. I have heard of people wanting a discussion of Intelligent Design to be presented as a theory. However that is not in and of itself, from the Bible nor is it as I guess you are thinking, trying to teach it as a fact.
Perhaps you'd like to show me where any Christian denomination wants to persecute gays? There may well be some small fringe group that does, but if so, I haven't heard of it.
So next time my friend, if you disagree with me; rather than non-sequitors, why don't you present your reasoning?
"Perhaps you'd like to show me where any Christian denomination wants to persecute gays?"
You didn't say denomination, you said any Christian, and even I can point out a handful that would like to see gays run out of town, denied employment or housing, etc. simply because of their orientation. Are you moving the goalposts, or did you originally mean to specify denomination?
It is understood that it is nobodies business what your faith is but your own. However that doesn't stop people from proselytizing on faith or another. Very few mean you any disrespect. They simply believe in the teachings of Jesus and want to share "the good news".
If I want the "good news" I'll come to you, don't come to me.
Just think of religious dialog as similar to this website when you get in discussions and express your political opinion on threads that interest you. If you like, feel free to engage in dialog and debate. If you don't, most Christians will respect your opinion to not discuss religion. Save your disrespect for those that don't return the favor.
Your comparing someone's relationship with God to politics?
So there is no need to be offended simply because someone has a religious point of view. Accept it or reject it as you see fit. Most Christians are sincere in their beliefs and only sharing what they believe to be, the word of God.
If I want to hear your message, I'll go to a church. Stop pestering me in the meantime.
Loonz,
I respect your opinion and not wanting to discuss religion. I am not trying to pester you or convince you of Christianity at all.
I am merely making the comparison that you and I and others here have our political beliefs and engage in dialog expressing those beliefs. Obviously you feel your beliefs are correct and better than mine. I accept that. I obviously feel my beliefs are correct and feel yours are not.
That is all Coulter is saying about her religion. She feels her Christian belief system comes closer to the truth than Donny's Jewish belief system. She simply said it out loud.
You may disagree with Ann and say all religions are the same, but that doesn't mean Ann is engaging in hate speech for believing in her religion and wanting others to believe in it too. She said nothing derogatory about Jewish religion. She only expressed the differences between the two religions.
Here is the thing about prosletyzing or in any way advocating. As long as you are talking about what is GOOD about how you believe you are on respectful grounds when you start talking about how you are BETTER than others because of your beliefs it is arrogant and offensive. This is a fairly simple and easily understood distinction.
I don't think Ann said Christianity is better than Judiasm, she simply said Christians feel Jews should convert.
Of course Christians feel their religion is the way to go. Many Christians do not believe in moral relativism with regards to religion. Many Christians feel their religion is the right way to go and want others to share in what they believe is the best way to gain salvation.
I find your post ironic because you have a tendency to call anyone you disagree with a moron or a liar. Aren't you being purposefully offensive and arrogant? Or do you advocate being offensive and arrogance as long as it does not include talking about religion?
Of course she did. She told them she wanted them to become perfected by believing the way she does. There is no possible other way to intepret that than WE are BETTER than YOU
AA, it is high comedy for you to be taken aback by anyone's tone. This notion that eveyone should be a Christian is tyrannical. Any organized effort to make "everybody" any one thing is tyrannical. Only diversity of thought will save this world. Heretics unite!
Btw anybody steeped in just about any major religion should have lots of "big" things in common, not just a few small things. The tenets of most major religions are very similar.
Julia,
Aren't you espousing something equally tyrannical in your exhortation for heretics to unite?
Well, I guess by your definition of tyrannical, organized religion may well fall into that category.
However, we both probably agree that based on historical evidence, a one world religion will not soon become a reality.
I agree with you that religions do have many big things in common. Good point.
:-)
Heretics should question everything. Heretics is not a term to mean only one category as you suggest. As I said very plainly, diversity of thought is a good thing and a necessary thing. You would necessarily be a heretic of us all becoming Muslim I would assume. You would also be a heretic of all of us being atheists as well I might also assume. I am a heretic to anyone being all Christian, all Muslim, all white, all black, all car salemen, etc.. Question, question and question some more. That's what heretics do. It will take a diversity of thought to save us from tyranny of any kind.
Julia,
I think you are mistaking the term heretic for skeptic.
I believe, like you in pluralism. Even though I think all people would be happier if they followed the teachings of Jesus, I am in full support of religious freedom for everyone, including heretics, Muslims, Jews, and Christians.
Even though we disagree on most issues, we have in common that agree on constant questioning and diversity of thought.
Heretic and skeptic do not mean the same thing. Of course you can be a skeptic and question. But a heretic is someone who holds controversial opinions. So it depends on your point of view. Heresy about a subject would be very different from someone not raised a white male Christian for example.
Many of us find it extremely insane to have people on here defending Coulter as if she had said anything worth defending.
Methinks she'd only be a Christian in a bizarro world where everything is the opposite.
Why can't Coulter be a Christian in today's world?
No one said to be a Christian one has to be perfect. :-)
"Why can't Coulter be a Christian in today's world?"
Well she certainly could be...perhaps a good start would be to suggest she take a vow of silence for the next fifty years.
Espousing to be a Christian and living like a Christian are two different things. Anyone as hate filled as Ann is not a Christian. When she starts acting like a Christian lady, I will accord her the respect of a Christian lady. She is neither a Christian or a lady. She is a boozy, promiscuous harpy who makes money off of pimping Christ and it should be offensive to anybody with any real Christian sensibilities or any decent person. Try saving her before it's too late.
Julia,
I'm curious. How do you know she's an alcoholic and sexually promiscuous? If you don't have any references aren't you engaging in character assassination?
What exactly is "pimping Christ"?
I have no objection to you not liking Coulter, but the ad hominum attacks do not help your argument.
Coulter's boozing and whoring in Manhattan night clubs is legendary. Where have you been? Ask David Brock if you want a first hand account. Or any number of morning talk show hosts can tell you she smells of booze first thing in the morning. She has stated publicly that she's single and can bed any man anytime she wants. That's from her lips.
As for anybody "attacking" poor Anne, that is just laughable. Ever notice the number of people she attacks? And not on an anonymous blog.
And you know what pimping Christ means. Don't play all wide eyed and innocent here. She is exploiting Christianity in a cynical manner to sell books and gain attention. I can't beleive that is lost on you. It is obvious to anyone paying a whit of attention. That you defend her reflects your character in a not flattering way. Unless you are just here to agitate or some other agenda, then I would expect you to call her out for her ignorant and hateful rantings. This person does not have your party or religion's best interest. She is hurting you guys. Too bad, so sad for you I guess.
And I called her boozy, not an alcoholic. Although I don't blame her for needing to be medicated to spew her hatefulness and bile. But then maybe it's just for "fun" since she appears to have little or no conscience.
Hm. So now we have a new definition of perfected as a theological term? Would you mind sharing some background on how the definition changes when used in a theological context?
I think what they're trying to say is that Judaism is "unfulfilled". It anticipates the coming of a Messiah and until that occurs the religion remains unfulfilled.
Conversely, Christians would presumably say that Christianity represents the fulfillment of Judaism. Christians say the Messiah, in the form of Jesus, arrived. Christianity was initially regarded as a Jewish sect until it grew into a universal (Catholic) movement.
Regardless of phraseology, Ann Coulter's comments to Jews that they are not perfected is a value judgment that her religion is right and theirs is wrong. IMO that's insulting regardless whether it is a tenet of her faith. You just don't say things like that in a very public way without drawing fire.
So you object, not to her belief, but simply saying it on air?
No, I said it was an insulting value judgment and that if one gives voice to it publicly one should expect return fire.
I guess we simply disagree that the value judgment is offensive.
I read where Dennis Prager, a noted Jewish author, scholar, educator, and talk show host does not find Coulter's statement offensive in the least.
It seems to me that many people here who have opined that Coulter's religious comments are hateful are neither Christian nor Jewish. I find it amusing that they are so vociferous when they have no dog in the fight. Why is that?
The ADL is Jewish, and has denounced Coulter's comments, so obviously a large group of people DO find her comments offensive.
Yes, I know the ADL issued a statement. Obviously people disagree about Ann's statements.
This is what Prager had to say about the ADL.
She said she believes that Jews who accept Jesus as their savior are "perfected." I fail to see why this is some form of hate-speech, let alone the basis of anti-Semitism, as stated by Abe Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League, which often defames conservative Christians, whom he and his organization hold to be the greatest domestic threats to America.
So Prager is telling us that the ADL is pushing it's own anti-conservative agenda. Because of that, the condemnation by the ADL is suspect in my estimation. Feel free to disagree.
ps. Here is the link to Prager in case anyone is interested.
http://townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2007/10/16/ann_coulter_wants_jews_to_become_christian_--_so_whatSo glad I have your permission to disagree. Being the demure female I am, it's uncomfortable for me to disagree with a man before I have the go-ahead to state my own opinion.
Prager says the ADL has an agenda. I say that Prager has an agenda, and I also say that it was only a matter of time before someone came up and played the conservative token minority to downplay the idiocy contained not only in Ann's original statement, but in her follow-up here. No matter what a person says, you will always find someone who is willing to dismiss or even back it up if they think there is gain in it for them.
And this MM respondent finds you, anotheramerican [sic], to be rather offensive and covertly anti-Semitic…BTW and I’m Jewish. I don’t care for your smarmy, hypocritically sanitized glossings regarding Judaism, just as much as I dislike coulter’s anti-Semitic & hate-filled comments. You do seem to delight in using that side-mouthed, askanced Christian rhetoric again…regarding Judaism. Your placid condescendence uncovers an immobile nature: You don’t care anything about Judaism; you are set in your ways and your doctrine…nothing is collegial in your biased rhetoric. It is offensive.
Nativeofsf, you have perfectly condensed the nature of AA. You are very erudite in your perceptions.
"It is my opinion that everyone here who chooses to be offended by Coulter's remarks are either ignorant of the theological meaning of 'perfected' or are simply using this occasion to express their contempt toward religion in general, and/or Christianity in particular"
Anyone who is offended at being called "imperfect" by the perfect Coulter? It's you that is ignorant. And they are the ones with contempt, not Coulter. And they are using Coulter's remark. And they are ignorant, not Coulter.
In other words, Coulter is perfect and has said or has done nothing wrong. It's you other "ignorant", "imperfect", "contemptuous", "easily offended" Christian-haters that have the problem.
Brilliant.
Dave,
Thanks for proving my point. :-)
Your moronic point. Which was exactly as I stated above: Coulter escapes blame, everyone else is wrong. Glad I proved it to you.
The only thing he proved is you HAD no point. Did you REALLY think you did?
Solon,
My point is that it seems to me that Dave is being purposefully ignorant of the theological term "perfected". (I invite him or anyone else to provide their definition if they don't like mine.)
No where did Coulter say she is 'perfect'. In my opinion, Dave is simply making up this straw man argument in order to express his disdain. (Either that or he is simply confused.)
By writing his post Dave proved my point. Lest you forget what that point was, Dave graciously copied into his post.
I hope that spells it out to you.
You posted the theological definition. We pointe out it STILL means hr way is better and THEY would be better if they would only dump THEIR beliefs and take on hers. So no that wasnt a point, it was a dodge
Being 'perfected' is a simple theological term. It simply means that by believing in Jesus, one's faith has reached out to the ultimate truth which will lead one to salvation.
The only problem with this is that other faiths don't believe in it. Everyone who follows the tenets of their religion are perfect or perfected.
No one need be offended any more than if I say all people should be perfected by becoming Catholics. It is a statement I believe in, but I recognize that everyone has their own opinions and beliefs and many disagree.
Christians should work on becoming perfect Christians and keep their opinions about other Faiths to themselves.
It is my opinion that everyone here who chooses to be offended by Coulter's remarks are either ignorant of the theological meaning of 'perfected' or are simply using this occasion to express their contempt toward religion in general, and/or Christianity in particular.
What you don't get is that people who follow the tenets of their religion are already perfected. Saying or implying otherwise is an insult and a denigration.
AA you make a much more compelling argument than Pudenda Shenanigans (aka Coulter).
I can disagree with you on the point you're making and I'm not offended. BECAUSE IT'S THOUGHTFUL, REASONED AND WELL ARTICULATED. That is not what M(r)s. Shenanigans does. S/he throws grenades.
And I disagree with you strongly since I personally think it disrepectful to denigrate someone else's faith to propogate yours. Afterall, Christ was much less evangelistic than John the Baptist, right?
My point being, actions speak louder than words. And Shenanigans' "shenanigans" are far from "Christ-like."
I would say Coulter's comments were succinct. I do not agree with many here who feel they were insulting and I do not feel that one saying one believes Jews should convert to Christianity is insulting to Jews.
Would you be insulted if someone said, "The U.S. would be a better place if everyone thought like a liberal?" I would not. I wouldn't agree but I am not offended. Same holds for comments about religion.
After all, Coulter was not trying to put down Jews. she was only responding to Deutch's question, (if I remember correctly,) about what in her view would make the world better. She only expressed her beliefs in Christianity.
Hey schmuck, get your head out of your tuchas. #1 Coulter’s comments are offensive to Jews; #2 You ain’t Jewish; #3 You respond like a “Tommy” with intractably constipated musings; #4 You espouse to “The Emperor’s New Clothes” logic; #5 You’re beginning to read like Pat Buchanan’s words…your trollish spewing is transparent and offensive too.
Or maybe YOU are just IGNORANT of the fact that just because something doesnt offend YOU thats no reason that someone else shouldnt be offended by it. Judging by your track record. I say its a good bet. I dont care WHAT the theological implications of the word perfected is. Telling someone they need to think the way YOU do to be perfected is insulting to most THINKING people. I think those pretending what Coulter said ISNT offensive are ignorant cretins who just make knee jerk appologies for ANY conservative saying ANYTHING
Solon,
You feel that insulting people who don't think like you is somehow justified?
Your unwitting hypocrisy is pretty funny.
I feel like if YOU think its ok to tell us WE are ignorant that makes it a fair response to tell you why we think YOU are ignorant. Why do you continually snivel that we treat you the way YOU treat us? I am not above returning serve you ought to know this by now.
A few months ago Ann passed me on the street & we made eye contact.
First of all, Ann Coulter is an absolute HOTTIE in person. Her pictures do not do her justice.
Secondly, let me note she wasn't insulting anybody at the time. Seems like that doesn't happen too often.
"...she wasn't insulting anybody at the time."
So you're saying her tongue had been cut out and fed to a pack of dogs by a group of pagan Democrats?
Skeletons are HOT! Hateful Skeletons are even Hotter! Hateful skeletons smelling of whisky, cigs are even Hotter. What a hottie. She is so hot, she might be going to a hot place (and I don't mean Florida).
lol...thanks jj
Coulter spouts phony religion
Like droppings that spray from a pigeon
The beliefs she is noisin'
Are as toxic as poison
Of the teachings of Christ, not a smigeon.
Hey, Mary, good one. I'll give you one in kind:
There once was a boozy, boorish broad
Who slung out some mud and some fraud
She preached about perfection
While oozing infection
Of a hate that nobody should laud
bravo! You said it before, Julia...how can we even discuss this ridiculous person?
Raging Annie knocks Muslims & Jews
Stinkin' thinkin' that's worse than bad booze
No religion with merit
Would act like this ferret
It's not Christian the bile that she spews.
A heretic, I'd rather be
Than a "christian" like Annie C *
She's a charlatan hack
Dressed in ghoulish black
Fooling those so blind, they can't see
Let me rhyme in here:
Rose are red
My dead violets are dead.
How does that rate?
There once was a creature named Annie.
Whose chances for heaven were scanty.
Spewing her bile on FOX she began choking.
"Lord" she gurgled "I was just joking."
And the worms ate her flesh with delight.
Yea, I know...twisted, huh? ;>)
And just in time for Halloween, too!
Still pondering the dark and disturbed beauty of Prince's poem...
Would that Coulter had no tongue
Who knows from what hellhole she sprung
Her visage is homely
And skeletally bony
She is the reason ferrets eat their young
OK...I’ll take a whack at this Too,
Cause Roses are Red & Violets are Blue,
And Do I love Annie Coulter True ?
*****************
I Love her Not! That is Clear,
And Of her God I have no Fear,
So I shall chime in right Here,
If she wins in 08 I'll shed a Tear,
****************
If she thinks the winner will be Perfect Annie,
I’ll just confidently exclaim, (My cute Fannie!)
***************
Now if you thinks her to be of perfection,
Your thoughts are in the wrong Direction!
***************
That’s my story and I’m sticken by it!
Take back our country in the year 08. For that's when Annie stops her Hate.
Sam-I-Am
Correction Footnote...
Let's take back our country in "08!"
For that's when Annie stops her "Oh-Hate!"
I'ts fitting that she's on her current rampage! She's got to sell that new rag of a book. More importantly, it's the season of the Bitch, Uh... I mean Witch! Halloween is upon us. This is her time to spook us all up.
She cracks me all up with laughter! You go girl....Keep hurting you own cause!
"Secondly, let me note she wasn't insulting anybody at the time."
That rules you out as a Democrat, Muslim, or "imperfect" Jew then.
Hahahah.. I find it funny you tossed in the word, Democrat when the discussion is about religion.
Nice plug.
She attacks Democrats on a daily basis. You narrowed the field to religion.
Objection! Relevence?
Get your eyes checked. Either that or your spellcheck. I am sure you meant she is a SKANK not a hottie. Second she was absolutly insulting as she usually is.
I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch.
So, Jews are stupid according to Ann, just not as stupid as a guy who took a small ad firm and turned it into one of the top 10 agencies in the country worth about $2.7 Billion, is personally worth about $200 million, produces independant films and is a successful author.
Yep this guy is definatly not very bright.
I wish I could be that stupid.
The Christian philosophy as preached by Jesus was a message of love and compassion. The Christianity of St. Paul was a political movement. History will tell you about the struggle Jewish Decended Christians waged against the Roman Empire. They won when Emperor Constantine converted in a display of "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em". The Bible was assembled from many books chosen and edited by Constantine's hand pick Bishops. Christianity as a religion and/or philosophy has been a force of great deeds in history. Christianity as a political movement has been a horror show through the ages including the Inquisition and the Holocaust. Ann Coulter embraces the ugliness of its oppressive past.
Geno,
Your history is abysmal. Paul did not lead a political movement. He simply shared his belief in Jesus and the teachings of Jesus. No where did he advocate rising up against the Romans.
The holocost was not a Christian movement any more than Hitler's Nazi's were a Christian movement. Yes, they killed millions of Jews, but also at least three million Christians were also rounded up and killed by the Nazis.
I agree the holocaust was not a Christian movement. I think it a fair statement to say Paul is who took Christianity from being a movement to being an organization. In fact it is clear Pauls real genius was organization. A smart man and great writer he WAS the man who organized Christianity
From Mein Kampf:
Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.Well that makes us even Annie Gangleskank. I dont think most conservatives are as ignorant and hateful as YOU.
I think Media Matters dropped the ball here for not pointing out that while the troll Ann Coulter says folks with little knowledge of a religion shouldn't comment, she, Malzberg and Media Matters fail to point out that Jewish doctrine, first off, does not recognize the existence of a Heaven, per se, as Christians see Heaven.
That image is a Christian image and of course the late Falwells of the world would see Jews having a harder time reaching it. Jews would not strive to reach it. As I recall from my early Jewish education, when the Messiah comes, all the dead shall rise and be with the Lord. Jews do not fear Hell, as do Christians. It doesn't exist exactly in the Jewish Holy Bible (which Jews do not recognize as an Old Testament).
So Coulter's premise is completely flawed. Malzberg is her hack and I don't see how he's holding a conversation about things Jewish without clarifying for the witch all of her flaws on the subject.
And these are just memories from a fallen Jew, but one who still has his wits. Can't say the same for Coulter, the evil one.
Atheism is not a religion. Please don't categorize it as one of the alternatives to Christianity or any other religion. My favorite quote: "Atheism is to religion as not stamp collecting is to a hobby." -Penn Gillette
America has not acknowledged or perhaps is not aware of the existence of the Messianic movement. For Ann Coulter, perfected is not correct. It is referred to as "Completed Jew" and this is what a Hebrew calls themselves after they profess belief in the balance of the Old Testament and the New Testament including accepting Jesus Christ as the Promised Messiah. They are commonly referred to as Messianic Christians. A small movement for the last 30+ years.
"Christians "just want Jews to be perfected.""
I'm not a fan of "evangelism" of any variety. However,,,,,,,,,, what is the objective of: "vegetarians", "environmentalists", "activists of all flavors" as well as liberalism and "progressive" philosophy???????????
So why is YOUR perfection more perfect than theirs???????
That we are saying it is GOOD not that we are better than YOU because you believe differently.
BULL. You do nothing BUT talk down to those who disagree with you about ANYTHING. The condescendent tone in all that most liberals speak is de facto claim to superiority.
"most liberals"? Pretty hard to gather stats on something like this...
But I'm guessing that you're guessing! 9 out of 10 liberals agree... :)
It can be OBSERVED in almost every political or social discussion thread. You insult and dismiss any idea or opinion that isn't your own. You consider yourselves the model of "perfect". But you do not want to perfect others; you want to rule them.
Trying to read our minds again? I think you ought to learn to READ period.
BTW, it ain't even POSSIBLE for you to know what Rush was THINKING. But that is ALL anyone in this discussion is doing.
Why don't you try applying some of that brilliance and wisdom TO YOURSELF.
Sorry for typing Rush instead of Anne. Doesn't matter. You claim to know what everyone "thinks" so that even "how's your boy" can provoke a fight, in your mind.
No we claim to be able to read what she SAID. Imagine a world where words had MEANINGS. Now for YOU to hire a five year old to have those words explained to you.
You just see it that way because you are ignorant like most conservatives. See how easy it is to just spout rude insults and generalize them? Much easier than, you know, ADDRESSING THE POINT MORON.
As far as I can tell, there is nothing anti-semitic about being a vegetarian.
There is also nothing anti semitic in believing your personal "faith" is the correct one. Muslims want others to "convert" also; but claiming THEY are anti anything is called intolerance by the same whiners.
As I said, I do not care for evangelicals of any variety; including the most oppressive flavor, progressive liberalism.
Oh quitchyer bawlin'. Your manufactured bawlin' about liberals is boring. We've heard it all before, a big so what?
And you hypocrites are frustratingly IGNORANT and DISHONEST. Bashing conservatives is just fine. Lecturing on intolerance as you give a perfect example of it. Screaming about "your" right to free speech, as you demand it be denied to any statement you don't like. Calling for equality as you legislate inequality (every hate or bias crime is DISCRIMINATION).
You aren't literate enough to hold a reasoned discussion anyway. So go back to you circle jerk.
YOU are stupider than brass bubblegum. It is hilarious to read someone as patently ignorant as YOU tell us anything. YOU are a moron. I appologize to morons everywhere for implying they are as stupid as YOU are.
IF you werent going for the stupidest man alive award you would see no one is calling for taking Gangleskanks free speech rights. She is free to rant her hatred and stupidity on any streetcorner or in any park. So there is no free speech argument here. Better get a six year old to explain what free speech is.
As compared to the stupidity and ignorance of conservatives. It is so easy to do that. Again, MORON, saying this is what we believe or we think we are good is not the same as saying we are BETTER or you would make yourself BETTER by believing what we believe. Try to keep up.
The free market is the perfect solution to the Ann Coulter problem. Those who like her viewpoints should buy her books. Those who oppose her viewpoints should boycott her books. Simple solution.
Coulter is an excellent example of her own dictim that people who don't know about religion probably shouldn't talk about it. Aside from her gross distortions of both the Old and New Testaments, she displays less true Christian behavior than any one else I can think of in American public life. So far as I can see, the only deadly sin she gives a pass is gluttony.
So Ann Coulter believes that Jews have a "much harder road to hoe." I would think so, especially if it's paved. They would have a much easier time if they were in the garden hoeing a row instead of a road.
Can't believe how many times recently I have heard that metaphor misquoted. Must not be many gardeners left in this world.
"a hard road (sic) to hoe"
You know, when I saw that, I thought the same thing. It should read "a hard row to hoe". Being an avid gardner, it jumped right out at me.
What a fool Ann Coulter is. Even as she acknowledged that Jesus was a Jew, she insists that Jews would be "perfected" if they became Christians.
Coulter is a fool because it was never Jesus' intent to start another religion in the first place. Christianity as we know it did not come into existence until 70 years after Jesus' death. Contrary to popular belief, the real founder of Christianity, theologically speaking, wasn't Jesus, but his disciple Paul.
The truth is, most of the doctrines of Christianity originated with Paul, not Jesus. Indeed, Paul's writings make up a three-fifths majority of the New Testament. Today's Christians should really call themselves Paulists.
Skeet,
I understand where you are coming from but I think Paul would disagree with you that most of Christian doctrine started, not with Jesus, but with Paul.
It is true that Paul had an enormous influence on Christianity, as he took his evangelism to the Diaspora and beyond, which then gradually spread through out the Roman Empire over the next couple of hundred years.
Paul had a long relationship with Peter and the Apostles and more than a few disagreements. The New Testament also includes, (if my memory serves me,) writings from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, plus Peter, James, and Jude, and possibly Barnabas and Timothy. I'm not sure if I left anyone out. But you get the gist.
I find the early years of Christianity to be a very interesting subject.
When a child has an imaginary friend, it's charming.
When an adult has an imaginary friend, it's disturbing.
When an adult says you should live your life according to this imaginary friend's rules, it's insanity.
I can't believe the kind of arragant, racist content that your media allows to publish in the States. Coulter definetly wants to make a name for herself and she doesn't care about how unprofessional or unethical her actions are. I love how she talks about the Christian Doctrine, then bashes the Jewish community, very Christian. Apparently Coulter had enough of insulting Canadians and spitting on our freedoms we have. Maybe she thought she should stop insulting Canada since our dollar is now worth more than the American dollar. Or perhaps since America is depending on the oil sand reserves in Alberta, or the Water and electricity exported to the United States everyday. Possiblity its because our troops in Afganistan are there for a very valid reason, to fight terrorism not steal oil. However you spin it Coulter has alot to feel sorry and stupid for. Sorry but as an American it seems to be that as the U.S. economy continues to slow you will be more and more dependant on Canada. Bush even wants to make a Americo currency since the U.S. dollar is failing. I don't mean to bash the U.S. I don't, there a millions of hard working Americans who cannot control these factors due to there governments policies. I also think it is because of this so called news you are feed everyday. I am a conservative, and to some extent grew up in a "hick town" but excuse me if I know its wrong to insult other peoples cultures, race or religion. Really whats nect Coulter are you going to start insulting African Americans, Mexicans, Native Americans or just anyone not as arragant as you?
The market (that's us!) can simply deny her further opportunities to promote her screeds.
Advertisers hate spending money to drive away business - just hate it. Try this:
The next time you see it/her on TV, take a moment to note a show advertiser and call or write them to say you were in the market for their (specific) product/service, but will not be a customer because they financed her appearance. Auto companies (big ticket) are extremly sensitive to such market pressure.
Here's what I have told advertisers:
"Some people enjoy lapping up her vomit, you are financially responsible for holding her hair as she spews."
We can disappear her any time we like.
Well, her quote in this headline MAY have a ring of truth to it.
Most Jews (and any other people) WOULDN'T be stupid enough to let her on their show!!
If MORE people would quit stooping to her level and giving her a platform from which to spew her vitriol, we'd quit hearing from this vile excuse for a human being.
IMHO, the less we hear about her, the better. She's a bomb-thrower that revels in the fact that people hate what she says. Every headline about her means more $$ in her pocket in the form of free advertising for the book sales she's trying to make.
Ann you may slander all the Democrats you want but when you question a Jew someone 'not from AIPAC' will dry what little meat on your bones into lox and serve it on a beagle.
Honestly, I don't think threatening cannibalism by Jews is a good argument. It only feeds into the "Elders of Zion" believers crowd.
I didn't mean it literally.
I'm also pretty certain that Beagles aren't kosher.
It really is a shame that there is such a wide audience for such an ignorant and divisive voice such as Anne Coulter's. We should be giving a forum for people like Rabbi Shmuley Boteach to speak- someone who is passionate and believes in uniting our country regardless of race, class, or religion.
I just saw him in the documentary Desert Bayou ([link to www.desertbayoumovie.com)] and was impressed with how he was able to unite a conservative white community (in Utah) with the Katrina evacuees that were shipped there, at some personal cost. I'd love to see the media give himself and people like him a greater voice, instead of continuing to cater to polarizing personalities like Coulter's.
Clearly, this partisan hack and agent provocateur, Coulter, is PROTECTED. Not to mention encouraged. She is operating with total immunity. When the truth no longer has a place in the american public discourse, we see the damage that these types of characters can cause.
It renders intelligent people (B.As, MBAs) into non-thinking partisan zombies, willing and able to support and defend any position -regardless of facts or precedents.
That is America today: us versus us.
All in the name of freedom.
why does it matter your company hates jews too.
Did anyone catch this on Bill Moyers Journal?
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10052007/profile.html
I was raised a Baptist and I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, however, these kind of holier than thou evangelicals scare the hell out of me.
The Los Angeles Times covered this tag-team bickering duo today, Tim Rutten also helps to promote and produce The Ann Coulter Show for a bewildered national news audience.
Rutten plays up the vital and essential need for news advertising space (not clearly marked 'Advertisement' as it is in some papers) to be bought, like an expensive gift for someone...or traded favors perhaps...then does very little to cover his complicity through any distancing:
http://www.freewebs.com/writingindependence/LATimesRutten.pdf
/****THE ANN KULTURE SHOW****,hyped by soft money, directed and produced by air-filled news replacement services of the U.S. State Department/
"...we consider, when Jews become Christians, that is becoming a perfected Jew. And that is precisely the theological term."
Hmmm....I hold a master's degree in theology and that term is not in general use. What church is it that Ann attends, precisely?
Coulter: "I don't think most Jews are as stupid as Donny Deutsch"
Wzwriter: "On the other hand, I DO think most conservatives are as ignorant, self-centered and hateful as Ann Coulter."
I think we need to be careful to not make political hay from a theological statement. If Jesus was the Jewish Messiah written about in the Hebrew scriptures, (the Christian's Old Testament) , and if he truly fulfilled the Law and prophecies, (“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them."), and if he did perfectly the will of the Father, then he was, indeed, the first perfect Jew. His followers represented the new Israel, redeemed at last, and could also be considered "perfected" Jews. Personally, I don't like the term, but strictly speaking, Ms. Coulter is correct. The word "perfected", the way she uses it, is simply a description, and not a statement of value.