On Tim Russert, Hitchens asserted Clinton's actions made her look "sort of alternately soppy and bitchy"
On Tim Russert, Christopher Hitchens said regarding Sen. Hillary Clinton, "[I]f you think of women who really have been put upon by men and by male supremacy, like Benazir Bhutto, as well, you can't imagine her resorting to this kind of self-pity or suddenly decide to feminize herself in the most clichéd way, of such -- by welling up and sobbing." Hitchens later added: "I just think that if she knew how it made her look, sort of alternately soppy and bitchy, she'd stop it. But she can't help herself, can she? She just can't."
On the April 5 edition of MSNBC's Tim Russert, host Tim Russert asked Vanity Fair columnist Christopher Hitchens if "we [are] seeing the gender card played" by Sen. Hillary Clinton in response to calls for her to drop out of the Democratic presidential primary race. Hitchens replied: "Oh, well, if you call it a card. It's just another side of her terrible self-pity and self-righteousness. If it isn't one, it's the other." Hitchens further asserted that "if you think of women who really have been put upon by men and by male supremacy, like [late Pakistani leader] Benazir Bhutto, as well, you can't imagine her resorting to this kind of self-pity or suddenly decide to feminize herself in the most clichéd way, of such -- by welling up and sobbing." Hitchens later added: "I just think that if she knew how it made her look, sort of alternately soppy and bitchy, she'd stop it. But she can't help herself, can she? She just can't." At the conclusion of the show, which included Atlantic senior editor Andrew Sullivan, Russert stated: "Thank you both for writing and thinking and talking with intelligence."
From the April 5 edition of MSNBC's Tim Russert:
RUSSERT: This last week, we heard Bill Clinton talk about picking on the girl. Former governor of Vermont [Madeleine] Kunin, of Vermont, saying that it was talking down to a woman, in effect, to tell her -- asking her to get out of the race. Hillary Clinton's confiding to -- according to The New York Times -- her advisers that she's not going to be bullied out by a bunch of guys. Are we seeing the gender card played?
HITCHENS: Oh, well, if you call it a card.
SULLIVAN: I mean, I'm a, I'm a --
HITCHENS: It's just another side of her terrible self-pity and self-righteousness. If it isn't one, it's the other.
SULLIVAN: I would -- I could not imagine Margaret Thatcher --
HITCHENS: No.
SULLIVAN: -- ever saying anything close to that.
HITCHENS: Or Golda Meir.
SULLIVAN: When I'm told I don't like Hillary Clinton because I'm a misogynist or whatever, I think, "I admired Mar--" I mean, she was my idol for many, many years. And she never, ever, ever -- when we were on very, very different sides --
HITCHENS: Yes, I know. Yeah.
SULLIVAN: -- extremely, miles apart -- she would never play the gender card.
HITCHENS: It would never occur to her.
SULLIVAN: Never occur to her. Because she is a feminist in the sense that we're post-gender. We're talking about -- you have to sometimes talk about it to some extent, but to use it as a reason to vote for anybody. Of course, Mrs. Clinton has said both. She said, "Don't use it as a reason to vote for me," and, "Please use it as a reason to vote for me," depending exactly on the circumstance. So, as usual, they've said it both ways.
HITCHENS: And if you think of women who really have been put upon by men and by male supremacy, like Benazir Bhutto, as well, you can't imagine her resorting to this kind of self-pity or suddenly decide to feminize herself in the most clichéd way, of such -- by welling up --
SULLIVAN: Or Angela Merkel.
HITCHENS: -- and sobbing, sobbing.
SULLIVAN: Or Golda Meir. I mean, we have examples --
HITCHENS: Or Indira Gandhi. It makes her look --
SULLIVAN: Or Indira Gandhi. The trouble is they were also, many of them -- well, go on, go on.
HITCHENS: No, no, I'd only be repeating myself. Well, no, actually, no. Why don't I do that? I mean, just -- it's -- I just think that if she knew how it made her look, sort of alternately soppy and bitchy, she'd stop it. But she can't help herself, can she? She just can't.
RUSSERT: Another quick break, Andrew Sullivan, Christopher Hitchens, right back.
[commercial break]
RUSSERT: And we're back. John McCain, going along, kind of revisiting the places that were important to him, high school, Naval Academy, and so forth. Raising money, watching this fight on the Democratic side. Are the Democrats going to be able to reunite, Andrew, or are they going to be overwhelmed by debates over gender and race?
[...]
HITCHENS: I very much doubt actually that that's true, that the resentment of foreign occupiers by Japanese people wouldn't be at least as intense as any resentment by --
SULLIVAN: But we didn't have --
HITCHENS: -- Arabs and Muslims. After all, a very large number -- the overwhelming majority of the people of Iraq did welcome the arrival of foreigners.
RUSSERT: To be continued. Thank you very much, both of you.
SULLIVAN: Thank you, Tim.
HITCHENS: It's always a pleasure.
RUSSERT: Andrew Sullivan, senior editor of The Atlantic. He blogs every day for The Daily Bush -- The Daily Dish, excuse me. He's the -- The Conservative Soul: How We Lost It and How to Get It Back. Christopher Hitchens -- Vanity Fair, Slate.com, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Thank you both for writing and thinking and talking with intelligence.
SULLIVAN: Thank you.
HITCHENS: Thanks for having us.
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Howard Kurtz's wasted opportunity
Hitchens, a person who sops himself regularly on al-ke-hol is all wet -talk about soppy. Sullivan is a Clinton hater who can't figure out which party he wants to be in. Russert has done an internet ad for John McCain. But they congratulate themselves for an intelligent discussion by comparing Hillary to other woman leaders because of a mere statement that she won't be bullied out of the race?
Am I missing something? Did Hillary cry? If she did it would be all over the internet. Just opining that she won't be bullied is now equivilant with being a crying biotch? Call me quirky, sounds like a wee bit of misogyny going on to me.
I don't think misogyny necessarily applies here either. I think their hatred of Clinton on display here is born out of partisanship. Their comparisons, which, notably, they had to go outside the U.S. to find, include two conservatives and a dictator.
Additionally, we don't hear a peep out of the right-wing slime machine when prominent Republicans get misty, like Mitt Romney, Bush I & II, and Robert Gates. John Boehner has brought the waterworks more than once on the congressional floor, but as usual, IOKIYAR.
You write as if non-committal to a political party is a BAD thing.
And do you mean to imply Obama is "right-wing" vis-a-vis Hillary? What a joke. Who has gotten more money from military contractors than HRC? Nobody, whether Democrat or Republican. To quote Sullivan himself, she's "Cheney in a pant suit".
If you vote for McCain or Nader you deserve 4 more years of BushCo but I don't.
Obama gave a speech that day in Indianapolis. If you don't understand the significance of that, you need a little educating. Memphis was the obvious grandstanding choice.
Bigotry and social/economic injustices are not restrained by geographics.
Is it misogyny to call anyone a bitch? What if I call my older brother a bitch? Is that misogyny?
What if Sen. Clinton exemplifies what I think of as 'a bitch'. Isn't misogyny applying stereotypes to a whole sex, and then expecting individuals to meet that stereotype? What if she actually has all the negative attributes that constitute bitchiness? Why is it out of place to call it out like it is? I don't think all women are bitches, and in fact, I don't think 'powerful' women are necessarily bitches.
A person who argues against intervention in Bosnia because of a domestic health care issue is a bitch. A person who consitentently changes his or her opinion to mesh with the polls is a bitch. A person who tries to sabotoge their primary opponent's chances in the General election in order to satisfy their own political ambitions is a bitch. Male or female, Hillary is still a bitch. Funny how they best some of you can come up with is that Hitchens puts down the bottle. Well, 1) he still writes better than any of you in his most intoxicated states, and 2) he isn't running for public office, so 3) I don't give a ____ how much he drinks. Truth is truth.
A man calling a woman a b is misogynistic. Simple as that. Furthermore, just because YOU agree with his opinion doesn't make it truth. Clinton is a bitch for using her assets to get what she needs? Wwhat does that make George W. Bush and every other white male president who benefited from their natural, God Given pigmentation? I don't agree with a lot of the campaigning Hill's or Bill's did thus far, but I'm not prepared to diminish her character and call her all sorts of deragatory names either. So let me ask you Criminal D, did you have a problem with Imus' comments.
Excessively sentimental, maudlin.
As a verb (the way I used it) means: To become thoroughly wet or saturated with liquid. As an adjective it just means thouroughly wet (as in crying the way Hitchens used it).
video and print. The images of Hillary are some of the most annoying and almost always unattractive: screaming, laughing too much, clapping, making faces, etc. and
not at all presidential. McCain? I see a different person with every image. There is no "him" there. It is enough for me that he is a Republican; I don't want another in the White House, period! Is this really ALL there is about the candidates? Is Hillary really THAT irritating? She impressed me a great deal at the beginning. Not now. Am I finally buying into what the media are telling me? Obama "looks" very good to me right now. But I keep asking the same question, "Who the hell ARE these people?"
Ain't they furiners?
Anybody check their green cards?
I can't think of anyone who offends as equally as Hitchens.
I've seen a few pretty good performances from Galloway. He's a scrapper.
***OFF TOPIC ALERT*** (But it's Saturday)
I just caught part of Hannity's America, and he's going further off the deep end every day. He's got a bit investigating the racist motives of Planned Parenthood. This is nothing new, as the background of the founder is a favorite of rightys, but this bit is bad;
Some conservative college magazine made calls to the donation number of PP, then after mentioning they'd like to give a few hundred dollars, the caller asks if they can specify that it goes to a minority for abortions. The PP empoyee (apparently against rules, probably really not wanting to scare off donors)confirms that they can. The undercover caller pushes it, saying there are too many black babies already.The employee. laughing uncomfortably says "whatever, we'll accept your donation".
Watch for the next Hannity Hyperventilation-- Planned Parenthood is trying to eliminate black people!!
I saw that too - just more of Hannity's "gotcha" brand of non-jounalism.
I can't wait until there is a V-8 moment that exposes Hannity the habitual liar and fearmonger to the masses.
The Politico's Jonathan Martin is, as we speak, criticizing progressive commentator Ed Schultz for calling McCain a "warmonger".
Will he condemn Hitchens for calling Hillary "bitchy"? Doubt it. Martin is a closet Republican.
http://www.politico.com/reporters/JonathanMartin.html
MEMO TO MMFA:
I'm not an expert in these things, but I do believe that authors and commentators such as Sullivan and Hitchens do have a right under the consstitution of the United States of America to voice opinions that do not agree with Hillary Clinton - or any of her paid staff at MMFA.
" or any of her paid staff at MMFA "
Prove it ! name names !
Off topic here.
I know you like Howard Zinn, so if you haven't read his piece, Beyond the New Deal. Here's a link (well, what used to be a link on my computer before MMFA improved the site):
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080407/zinn
Thankyou for this important constitutional information. We shall inform our bureau at once and let them know that Media Matters is free to publish articles critical of Hitchens and Company.
Go Obama!
Here, I know you'll approve of this. I'll exercise my right to disagree with you. Screw you, ya soppy biotch.
I'll bet you have the same tolerance for Rev. Wright's right to disagree with our government? Right? You're for free speech right?
Actually, when I started quoting some of the wonderful lines from the "Rev" Wright there were some people who wanted to take away my constitutional free speech rights to post at MMFA.
And that is an absolute fact. I was quoting directly from the text of the most "Reverend" Wright - and MMFA could not handle it.
Solon pointed out the painfully obvious.
But I see you dodged the point, free speech guy. Do you believe in Wright's equal right to criticize our government? Do you have that kind of conviction? Do you love your country enough to protect every man's right to speak free?
Here's a quote from great a American who, were he not murdered in the name of the radical rightwing, would agree with Wright.
“You know, Jesus reminded us in a magnificent parable one day that a man went to hell because he didn't see the poor. … And I come by here to say that America, too, is going to hell, if we don't use her wealth. If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty, to make it possible for all of God's children to have the basic necessities of life, she, too, will go to hell.”-MLK
I think you're a phony. I think you only agree with the rights of idiots to speak ill of liberalism and damn the rest.
I do believe that authors and commentators such as Sullivan and Hitchens do have a right under the consstitution of the United States of America to voice opinions that do not agree with Hillary Clinton
Indeed they do. The real story here seems to be that so-called mainstream commentators such as Russert make no effort to balance their coverage in this election when it comes to Hillary. It is no surprise that the foppish Hitchens hates the Clinton's with a passion, so why wouldn't Russert attempt to get another person on to present an opposing point of view? Last I checked that was the mark of a respectable journalist. This primary is extremely close..an approximately a 1% difference in the popular vote. It looks like Obama is going to win and will be an extremely powerful candidate..but why the unbelievable venom toward Hillary from the media..not just Fox or the right wing gasbags on talkradio but from such as Tim Russert who thinks of himself as a hard hitting but fair journalist..and by the way, I too would like to know when Hillary was sobbing as Hitchens described. Maybe he imagined it while he in the grip of another DT experience.
this thread prompted me to find out more about this Hitchens blowharty. Gets interesting when you get to the drinking part
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens#Education_and_early_career
And MMFA has a right and duty to expose hateful statements toward political figures that are targeted by the right wing
Why do you think that's a criticism? Could it be that even you find them hard to take?
2) As for the commenters: Somehow, somewhere along the way you seem to have picked up the idea that criticizing someone is the same as trying to silence them, and that pointing out what they say is absurd, nasty, factually wrong, bigoted , or just plain stupid is the same as censorship, when it's the exact opposite.
Is the concept of discourse that strange to you?
I'm not an expert in these things, but I do believe that authors and commentators such as Sullivan and Hitchens do have a right under the consstitution of the United States of America to voice opinions that do not agree with Hillary Clinton - or any of her paid staff at MMFA."
Sure. And anyone who wants to can comment upon them.
Do you have evidence that Hillary is paying MMFA?
Sorry....Hitchens is, as usual, absolutely right!
There's no "misinformation" here.
TO Roundhouse and Solon:
"Sig Heil"
That would be more appropriate to YOUR fascist compatriots.
To Goodfella BITE ME.
Planet Goodfellas passed by again I see.
One celestial collision earth will never have to worry about is one with Planet Goodfellas.
It never ceases to amaze me how azzhole like "Goodfella's" has no problem with people telling lies and unfoundedly criticizing Democrats. Yet they can't stand it when we call out the criticizers. This amounts to free speach for their side, but not for opposition. And, once again, more poof that they can't stand on the merits of their beliefs, so their solution is to levy personal attacks on the other side.
I firmly believe extreme right wing mental illness is incurable.
Let's review the comments here:
First, I wrote this:
"Sorry....Hitchens is, as usual, absolutely right!
There's no "misinformation" here."
Goodfella57 / Saturday April 5, 2008 9:51:45 PM EDT
Then ROUNDHOUSE replys to my comments with this:
"I feel sorry for you. Once the Democrats unify and start making the argument against Conservatism this fall it's gonna get ugly for all the Republican canker blossoms."
roundhouse / Saturday April 5, 2008 10:04:25 PM EDT -
What exactly does that mean? How am I, a conservative, supposed to react to that? Does 'gonna get ugly' mean you wish we would all be sent to some kind of internment camp... or worse? And the term 'cancer blossom' can only mean something that you wish to have medically eradicated.
Can you see how one may have taken your response to my comment as fascistic.
My "Sig Heil" was inappropriate (and apparently misspelled) and sent in anger. Sorry
You're fakin'. You reek. So stop and address the issue. Hitchens is a punk and so is your attitude for sidin' with him. Ain't no way around it. You get what you ask for, big fella.
I suggest you look up the word canker you paranoid freak. A canker is a mouth sore easily cured this day and age with topical medication. A canker blossom is an insult I lifted from my coffee mug inscribed with Shakesperean insults. I thought it was apt.
You thought I called conservatism a cancer. Ha Ha. That's insane. At least now I know what hellish pig fest your brain wanders off to when Savage talks about liberal vermin. Pissant.
Also, what part of making the argument against conservatism leads your violent, wallowing mind to interpret, "this fall it's gonna get ugly for all the Republican canker blossoms," to extermination? What makes your brain skip to concentration camps? God that's sick and paranoid. I'm talkin' about the ugliest outcome any of those street hustlin', sore in my mouth conservatives could endure: loss of control.
I know full well that this post is way over the top but I'm not backin' off it. Because if you truly desire measured discourse, goodfella, you better not come to the table with that snarky bs again. You'll just get more of the same from me.
I don't care if you think you were being funny, in fact, I would regard the 'just joking' response as even more pathetic than weaseling out of your little insult the way you did.
So which is it? You wanna tussle or do you wanna have a nice calm heart to heart chat?
You get what you ask for, friend.
Why does Hitchens' statement even warrant a mention by Media Matters? The man expressed a quite reasonable and insightful opinion about Hillary Clinton's all-too-familiar pattern of dishonest, self-serving, manipulative, egomaniacal behavior.
Since when is it the primary mission of Media Matters to attack anyone-and-everyone who dares to express doubts about Hillary's character and fitness for office? Has the Bill of Rights been superseded by Dianetics or something?
American Hate TV goes all Masterpiece Theatre….
RUSSERT: This last week, we heard Bill Clinton talk about picking on the girl. Former governor of Vermont [Madeleine] Kunin, of Vermont, saying that it was talking down to a woman, in effect, to tell her -- asking her to get out of the race. Hillary Clinton's confiding to -- according to The New York Times -- her advisers that she's not going to be bullied out by a bunch of guys. Are we seeing the gender card played?
RESPONSE: Of the three examples he uses, only one involved Sen. Clinton personally and this would have been IN PRIVATE. Not very effective PR, if that were her goal.
SULLIVAN: I mean, I'm a, I'm a –
RESPONSE: Say no more.
HITCHENS: It's just another side of her terrible self-pity and self-righteousness. If it isn't one, it's the other.
RESPONSE: No, backwards. They should stick to psychoanalyzing their own countrymen. They may have some insight there, but I doubt it.
SULLIVAN: I would -- I could not imagine Margaret Thatcher –
SULLIVAN: When I'm told I don't like Hillary Clinton because I'm a misogynist or whatever, I think, "I admired Mar--" I mean, she was my idol for many, many years. And she never, ever, ever -- when we were on very, very different sides –
RESPONSE: So, his idol was a political figure who he mostly disagreed with? Must be some of that intelligent thinking Russert referred to.
SULLIVAN: Or Angela Merkel.******HITCHENS: -- and sobbing, sobbing.*******SULLIVAN: ******Or Golda Meir. I mean, we have examples -- HITCHENS: Or Indira Gandhi. It makes her look --SULLIVAN:****** Or Indira Gandhi. The trouble is they were also, many of them -- well, go on, go on.
RESPONSE: How would these two know? What countries don’t they mind-meld with?
SULLIVAN: -- extremely, miles apart -- she would never play the gender card*******.HITCHENS: It would never occur to her.********SULLIVAN: Never occur to her. Because she is a feminist in the sense that we're post-gender. We're talking about -- you have to sometimes talk about it to some extent, but to use it as a reason to vote for anybody. Of course, Mrs. Clinton has said both. She said, "Don't use it as a reason to vote for me," and, "Please use it as a reason to vote for me," depending exactly on the circumstance. So, as usual, they've said it both ways.
RESPONSE: They’re comparing the leadership of that little island over there to America’s? They’ve got some nerve badmouthing a prominent member of President Wilson’s and FDR’s party, but for whom they’d be mind-reading in German.
RUSSERT: And we're back. John McCain, going along, kind of revisiting the places that were important to him, high school, Naval Academy, and so forth. Raising money, watching this fight on the Democratic side. Are the Democrats going to be able to reunite, Andrew, or are they going to be overwhelmed by debates over gender and race?
RESPONSE: He should tell us. I suppose he just did.
Whoever the Democratic nominee is, they're going to have to answer to a strong, motivated and organized progressive grassroots movement so It's time to get past our personal preferences. It's time to tell the Republicans we're so over their disasterous reign of power.
It speaks volumes about Russert that his entire hour was with two overt Hillary haters, who also happened to be snotty misogynists.
Sullivan is a self hating gay man who is more about being rich and snotty. Hitchens is a drunk. Both have openly derided, insulted and shown their hatred for Hillary Clinton every chance they get. It speaks volumes that Russert gave them both an hour to trash Hillary, someone he and his station have demeaned, denigrated and insulted for year.
Hitchens' is an example of an Obama supporter.
They deserve each other. Both are racist and dumb.
If Clinton isn't the Dem. nomineee, I'm voiting for Nader.
Once again, Hitchens was spot on with his analysis of not only HC, but of Obama as well. As one of the very few true, honest progressives out there in the public sphere, Hitchens consistently advocates the principles of humanism and progressive causes. For shedding light on HC's incredibly selfish, but not surprisingly despicable, behavior in the early - mid 90's with respect to the bosnia crisis, Hitchens should be applauded by his fellow progressives.
http://www.slate.com/id/2187780
PROGRESSIVE ? HITCHENS ?
May I please have a smaller portion of the drugs your doing? I've never done drugs, but you make it seem so intriguing.
The very moral foundations of the progressive way is raped by associating Hitchens with Progressivism.
I don't know if anyone else commented on this, haven't read them all;
Russert reports that she has said (privately) that she isn't going to let a bunch of men force her to quit. (not direct quote) The logic of those two jerks pointing to this as Hillary Clinton playing victim escapes me.
It seems to me that playing victim would be to complain and quit. fighting and not being pushed out is not playing victim it is just being who she is, a fighter.
This whole segment was yet another hatchet job on Clinton by NBC/MSNBC. How do they get away with this?
No matter who you believe will be the best President this kind of behavior by the media is appalling. Any voter in this country should be outraged by the way the media (particularly MSNBC) has covered this election. It gets worse each election. If it isn't your candidate getting sidelined (polite way of saying screwed) this time it can be next time. It could be in the GE with the love affair with McCain blossoming again.
There has to be a shakeup at how political news and corporate news is covered. It has to be taken out of Corporate hands.
Non Profit?
actually, bush has almost succeeded in uniting the entire country in disliking him, so in that sense, he is kind of a "uniter".
i believe benazir bhutto is still dead, so i'm not sure she's a great example for sen. clinton to be following.
I watched this show on Saturday morning and I wanted to crawl inside the TV set and choke Tim Russert and Hitchens. The only one who sounded intelligent and reasonable was Andrew Sullivan and I have not always agreed with him. Tim Russert is the most overpayed pundit on Television,
These people have no scruples whatsoever. It is all about ratings and nothing else. I have made a vow to stop watching all of them except Keith Olbermann until we win this election AND WE ARE GOING TO WIN, despite the MSM
Tim and Co. serve their masters well , which is why they feel so comfortable in personal attacks on Liberals or anybody that challenges the elites in DC , like Kucinich or Ron Paul .
The pattern is there , from parroting U.S. foreign policy or censoring the U.S. war on Somalia , censoring the DAILY killing of civilians in Gaza , never questioning the obscene amounts of money spent on the military and the increase of military bases that is antagonizing the world and large doses of distraction like the latest missing person , who said what to whom and Brittany updates all day long .
And the Blatant attack on obama and " his " preacher , that went on like an endless orgy of accusations , guilt by association , obviously all designed to damage him , yet McCain's endorsement by Haggee , barley gets mentioned .
The media is corrupt (TV ,papers & cable) and one reason is most of the major lapdogs belong to the Council on Foreign Relations , that create U.S. policy and spreads it, by it's members in the so called news media .