MSNBC's Mitchell: Southwest Virginia "is real redneck, sort of, bordering on Appalachia country"
On the June 5 edition of MSNBC Live, anchor Andrea Mitchell noted Sen. Barack Obama's appearance that day in Bristol, Virginia, with former Virginia governor and Democratic Senate candidate Mark Warner and asserted, "Interesting images today. Barack Obama, Mark Warner in southwest Virginia. This is real redneck, sort of, bordering on Appalachia country. This is not the Northern Virginia, you know, sort of high-tech corridor. And these are voters that he would not logically be, you know, gravitating to. This is the beginning of a pivot."
From the 1 p.m. ET hour of MSNBC Live on June 5:
MITCHELL: Interesting images today. Barack Obama, Mark Warner in southwest Virginia. This is real redneck, sort of, bordering on Appalachia country. This is not the Northern Virginia, you know, sort of high-tech corridor. And these are voters that he would not logically be, you know, gravitating to. This is the beginning of a pivot.
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I'm not gonna do your homework for you but I will say that Olby's deliberate avoidance of calling out his NBC brethren on WPITW has been bandied about here at MMFA a zillion times. It's been explained many times. It's been overdone to the point of absurdity.
Calling people Rednecks is an insult. Just like when VP Cheney made his comment about WV was an insult. The brains at MSNBC though are elitists , they proved it with the way they dismissed Senator Clintons bluecollor support. Scum like Olbermann and Matthews are two of the biggest elitist scum on MSNBC. Mitchell is just as bad.
DB Sounds like an Olbermann elitist to me.
Bob then said that the N word and Redneck are both filthy words. Remind you of someone else (Sueeld) who cannot understand the difference between a smear and fair criticism?
That's his whole contribution to this posting.
What does Keith Olbermann have to do with Andrea Mitchell? That's right, absolutely nothing.
What does the fact that a member of the MSNBC family doesn't attack other members of the MSNBC family have to do with this posting? That's right, absolutely nothing.
As RabbitLuver said above, it's been explained over and over again why a commentator like Keith Olbermann would not make NBC or MSNBC journalists one of his Worst Persons in the World. No network would, and so it is not surprising nor is it something to hold against them in the way that Bobthep did.
Behind the scenes, Keith Olbermann was working very hard to get Imus punished when he was being offensive, but it was not until he left that Olbermann was able to speak out on the air about him. That's reality. If you don't understand that, well, I'm sorry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x653129
"And this problem (Imus being a jerk) accelerated over the years, and I (Olbermann), quite frankly, went in to management more than a year (a year before he was fired) ago and said 'There's a breaking point coming, there's a tipping point coming here. It seems to be getting worse. They seem to be getting worse in terms of their behavior off the air and on the air, and we need to do something about that."
Then he addressed Mike and the Mad Dog's criticizing him for not being open about his role in the Imus firing until Imus was out the door. Olbermann said he didn't wait that long to criticize Imus.
"No, I didn't. In terms of doing it publicly--yeah, I did. You do what you can do in that situation and not more. That's one thing I've learned about this business after many years in it. Many of the things that went wrong at ESPN were because I didn't understand that. Try to resolve the problem internally, give it a certain period of time, believe the assurances of your management--and if you can't, then go public if you feel you have to.
Patrick again brought up what he has said repeatedly to Olbermann, namely, that Olbermann would have been skewering Imus on air had his show been on Fox rather than on MSNBC, and Olbermann again acknowledged that. "As I've said many times, there is a practicality about this business, and a compromise that you have to make. There is not carte blanche--even though he (Imus) never held himself to these sorts of standards--there is not carte blanche in terms of dealing with other people with whom you work. You can't simply turn and fire off a gun in somebody's face.
"Was I guilty of maybe not making as big a stink about this as I should have? Yeah. But you don't have free rein to shoot internally. Really, I feel like you don't, and I know, more importantly, and possibly the deciding factor and my primary defense about this is, if I had started to make Don Imus the Worst Person in the World when I first wanted to, which would have been--when did we start Worst Person in the World?--July of 2005--I would probably have done it within the first month at some point, for something he did.
"If I had done that, there would have been a constant battle. I would have been happy to join that battle with him (but) there would have been a constant battle involving the people who work for me--my producers, my staff--who have no business being trotted out. And they would have been mentioned by name on Imus's show. They would have been mentioned by name, there would have been problems involving them internally, there would have been complaints about them. I didn't think I had a right to do that. And I thought had a responsibility to my employers to go along with them, and after the management change about a year ago, I figured there was probably--something was going to happen. And finally, something did. Imus took care of it himself."
So, feel free to ignore reality if you want to. The rest of us will continue to embrace it.
Mitchell a liberal, that's a hoot!!!
She's your standard corporate conservative........and an elitist as well.
It does seem like the term "redneck" is used by the left more than the right as a term of insult towards a certain type of person. Perhaps not.
LOL
"Redneck" is not an insult to those who describe themselves that way.
You know you're a redneck when...
You're too drunk to fish.
You know you're a redneck when...
You're too drunk to fish.
My favorites:
...if you've ever brought a beer in with you for a job interview.
---if Granny's Christmas list includes the word "ammo".
...if your matching set of salad bowls all say "COOL WHIP" on the side.
...if your front porch ever collapsed and killed more than six dogs.
So I should feel free to use the "n-bomb" as long as I hear a black person use it first?
No Dems_Sol...
The term redneck does connotate a population considered by the right to be so stupid that they can be manipulated with talk of guns, and God, and Applebee's, etc.
They're easy pickins' for the conservative elitists.
"So I should feel free to use the "n-bomb" as long as I hear a black person use it first? - dexteritas0071418 / Thursday June 5, 2008 3:25:32 PM"
**
Why, are you itching to drop the n-bomb?
I've heard different stories as far as the origin of the word "redneck", but this one is pretty interesting.I also heard it attributed to some 19th century labor protestors who wore red bandanas.
For most of my life, I just assumed it was about the country folks sunburned necks. Shows what I know.
DB,
Would your definition of Redneck be: white, blue collar?
add conservative as in, "white, blue collar, conservative."
Oh, it is.
Hard to believe, even in these 'enlightened' times.
rabbit,
Can you provide any link to support your claim?
For outlawing dancing as being backward? Nope, sorry, no link. Personal opinion. :)
Hahaha... I'm guessing "swing your partners" does not have a gay connotation in Pound, WV.
Okay get your head out of the gutter.... Nor does it mean wife-swapping.
:-)
Bob,
Actually I don't mind the use of the term "redneck". I guess it obvious that it refers to a white person and one who gets sunburn by working out doors... maybe it means white farmers? I know it is used as pejorative by some but I don't know many people who are offended by being called a redneck. They sort of laugh it off or take some pride in being one.
Exactly AA, that's what I mean.
And yeah, that's me, a good ol' Olbermann elitist redneck.
Yeah, I'm a redneck. Grew up in rural NC and worked the tobacco fields for ten years. Around here, redneck is not a pejorative. In fact, for many, it's a source of pride. And I can tell you for a fact that many in Bristol feel the same way.
You can try to recontextualize the term to mean proud farmers but you insult farmers by doing so.
Round,
I would think you'd go look it up before stating your opinion as fact.
The term redneck goes back prior to the Revolutionary War. Look it up on Wikopedia.
AA is right.
Might wanna read this, Roundhouse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_%28stereotype%29
From the same wiki link we also have this, "Another popular etymology is that the term was originally used by African Americans as a pejorative for white people in general, in the same manner that peckerwood and ofay were coined by blacks." which, in a way, supports my assertion.
I know I was wrong to make my definitive statement, I take it back.
Round,
Great visual. I'll try not to get you so worked up. ;-)
Oops, Rabbit, sorry. I should read the whole thread before posting, eh?
(I put up a similar link up-thread)
Wrong again, AA.
The term redneck comes from the Battle of Blair Mountain which happened back in 1921. It has to do with unionization (UMWA) of coal miners. Those who supported it wore red bandannas around their necks.
My uncle was constatntly called a redneck and he hated it...
He didn't have much education and he had a quick temper, but he'd really kick some ass if you called him a redneck!!
He always said, "I wouldn't vote for a re-puke-lican to pick up my horse sh*t!!"
Well, I live in VA, NOVA to be precise, and I had a GF a while back from that part of the state. The relationship didn't work out though as I, in her terms, wasn't 'redneck enough' as in I didn't beat her up, cheat on her at every opportunity, and didn't down a case of Bud every week.
According to her, that is the norm in those parts...
Hint: She was saying in redneck speak, she wanted you to use the cuffs instead of the other way around...
(okay. My head is in the gutter...)
I wouldn't consider it a term of endearment. From www.dictionary.com:
red·neck (rěd'něk')
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
2. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.
wz,
Obviously written by a Northeastern metrosexual. ;-)
ahhh another term of endearment. I'll give you points for snarkiness. :-)
WZ, I can see that those definitions of redneck can understandably lead one to conclude that it is a pejorative term. I'm just saying, from my experience, it's more a source of pride and honor for many who choose to self-identify that way.
I can see that if "redneck" is a term you use to describe yourself and your chosen way of life, it can be a source of pride - it brings a connotation of hard work under the hot sun and honest work for honest wages. Nothing wrong with that.
But when it's used by someone who does NOT describe themselves in that way (such as Andrea Mitchell), it can serve as an insult.
WZ has a point. Although many people who describe themselves as rednecks probably wouldn't be bothered by hearing Mitchell say it - then again, how many of them would actually watch her - it did come off as tacky. You don't just say things like that on the tube and expect to not be called out for it.
I can understand that...but being a redneck (albeit a more liberal one), I can tell you it doesn't offend me.
I mean, does anyone know when redneck became pejorative in nature? Perhaps its my point of view that I don't see it that way.
I mean, does anyone know when redneck became pejorative in nature? Perhaps its my point of view that I don't see it that way.
I would guess that there's no clear line of demarcation that indicates when it's acceptable and when it's pejorative. It varies on a case-by-case basis, depending on who uses the term and in what context.
DB and Rabbit,
Anyone who is a fan of country music is at least an honorary redneck. :-)
We're talking old-school Conway Twitty, Johnny Cash, and Hank Williams Sr. kinda stuff right?
Any country music after 1985 (with a few exceptions) is crap, IMO.
Shooter Jennings would be an exception.
DB,
Even though country has gone mainstream, I still like lots of the contemporary performers. Like rock, you really have to wade through a lot of blah to get to Ye Haw!
Bristol's congressman (Boucher) is a dem, maybe Mitchell should do a little more research.
(Proud resident of Abingdon, VA 5 miles from Bristol)
6/5/08
e-mail to Mitchell
Dear Andrea,You got up there today on MSNBC Live and pontificated about Obama’s and Mark Warner’s visit to Southwest Virginia: “and these are voters that he would not logically be, you know, gravitating to.” That’s just great Andrea, fine journalism. Exactly what voters is Obama allowed to gravitate to, according to you corporate clowns? I guess you and your corporate cronies, loaded with your elite wisdom, have determined that Obama is only allowed to gravitate to college grads. Is that it? Is this the narrative that you and your corporate pals have decided upon? I know you’re just trying to make a buck, but do you have to disgrace yourself?No opinion on redneck, Being from Montana its an identity I could claim. Don't remember anyone calling me one.
Thing is SW West V isn't sort of bordering appalachia. Isn't it right in the middle of it?
Here's a map of Appalachia from Wikipedia. Southwest Virginia is smack dab in the middle of it.
I grew up in Northern Va and I remember the term "redneck" was used in the 1960's and 70's to differentiate from hippies or freaks.
Usually, the long-haired youth were not the rednecks with short hair.
Later, in the mid 70's, the term long haired neck was used to describe rednecks with long hair.
Remarkably group hair fashions are not that disparate, at least then, and one had to look for other distinguishing characteristics beyond hair length to find out if a person was simpatico.
It was all about different groups of people then, thank goodness some change for the better has taken place.
With the advent of partisan networks like fox, I fear we as a people are dividing again and not coming together.
What really offended me was the part in which she said that we"the people of appalachia" are not the logical choice for Senator Obama. Well last time I checked we were still part of the United States and were able to Vote. Also when Virginia Tech had that tragic Massacre "redneck" was not an adjective that I heard used to describe the area.
I don't believe that Andrea Mitchell meant it in any pejorative sense, and so although others might mean it in a derogatory way, I don't believe this posting should be here.
I think Media Matters missed the boat on this one. I am a great defender of their job of debunking conservative misinformation. I don't see how an innocent remark from Andrea Mitchell forwards the conserative agenda. Reality is that southwest Virginia is different, more country, less high-tech, more redneck.
Thank you MMFA, for bringing the inanity of the Media Hos, be they Right, Left or Wrong to review. Sad for you, "Tommy" that you've come to feel Andrea Mitchell as Liberal". Even sadder, if you've had to feel her. Ha!
As to the origin of the term "Redneck", here is the legend I heard somewhere along the way of growing up and living in north Louisiana:
A long time ago there was an island off the coast of modern day Canada which was known as Acadia. Its populace were French immigrants and their progeny who had adapted to the harsh elements of the north Atlantic island now called Nova Scotia. The Acadiens were great fisherpersons and they prospered from the rich fishing grounds which surrounded their island.
When the British conquered the French in Canada, they drove the French residents of Acadia off the island. The French laded their fishing craft with all their worldly possessions and moved to the coastal lowlands and rich swamps and marshes of south Louisiana, an area familiar to them since the days of Napoleon. An area where fishing is still a way of life. Among the possessions they took to Louisiana were their beloved dogs.
Dogs were important family members to the French Acadiens for good reason. The frigid winters placed warmth at a premium and the body heat of the dogs was utilized as the Acadiens allowed their dogs to sleep upon their beds leading to the possible gauging of the night's chill as a "three dog night" indicating the origin of the name of the Canadian rock group. So, the dogs were not only beloved pets but valuable resources as well.
The Louisiana coastline seldom sees a "three dog night. It is semi-tropical at best and downright tropical on a typical hot and humid August day. As the Acadiens settled into their new habitat, they were shocked by one of the savage facts of life and death in Mother Nature's seething placenta of new species. To their horror, they discovered that Dog is one of the Alligator's favorite foods. An Alligator can outrun a dog for a short distance and many a dog has become 'gator groceries even unto this day. Soon there was a shortage of dogs in Acadien communities and though their body heat was no longer a necessary resource, the Acadiens, a kind, loving and usually gentle peoples, mightily missed the company of the tasty (to Alligators) K-nines. So, they turned to the common swamp denizen, the Raccoon, to try to replace the pups.
The Acadiens captured baby raccoons and domesticated them (to a degree). They would place the 'coon around their shoulders and carry it it with them during their daily doings. On one side of the Acadiens face would be the ring-eyed sharp-nosed head of the coon while on the other side of the Acadien's head would appear the back legs, the haunches and the coon's .......ass. Soon it was said that whenever one saw an "Acadien" (now bastardized to "a Cajun) one saw a coon ass. Soon Acadiens were called "Coon Asses" or simply "Coonies" This was not a pejoritive term but a descriptive one. Still....
The Cajuns, a close-knit (some say clannish) community were and are a highly colorful people. Not ones to take a ribbing (Coonasses) lying down, they assessed the folks most likely to refer to them as such and noted it was their neighbors to the near north who peopled the red Clay hills and Pine covered hollows some 200 miles but half a world away from them. These were mostly German, Irish, and English who had made their way west after moving south from Virginia and the Carolinas and Georgia. They were predominantly Protestant while the Cajuns as well as the Spanish of south Louisiana were staunch Catholics. North Louisiana was noted early on as a valuable source of timber and dairy and beef cattle. Herein lay the Cajun's revenge. Timber leaves stumps and cows leave.......manure! So....
North Louisiana is just as hot and humid as south Louisiana with no inland breeze to stir air and because of this north Louisiana men usually cut their hair short (above the shoulders and neck) to alleviate the discomfort of the prevailing long hairstyles of the era. To avoid the cow manure laden ground, the norht Louisianians would jump from stump to stump constantly looking down and exposing their bare necks to the blistering sun to assure themselves a safe landing upon another stump and avoiding the everpresent cow manure. Their necks were always red and this condition and its cause led the Cajuns to call their northern neighbors "Red-necked stump-jumpers" and just as "Coonasses" bacame "Coonies", "Red-necked stump-jumpers" bacame simply "Rednecks".
A Goatroper.
The media elitists including Andria Mitchell have been speaking with disdain and disgust for all Southerners and blue collars workers in the Rust Belt during this election cycle. Do they think this type of rhetoric will help Obama?
As a Michigan resident with many friends from the South. The term "redneck" is a derogatory and insulting term used by people who consider themselves above the average middle class citizen. Many of my friends who moved to Michigan from the South in the 1950's claim that they were discriminated against because of their Southern backgrounds and were denied rental of decent housing here in the North during those years.
I am tired of hearing media elites use that insulting term. David Gergen has used it on more than one occasion. I contacted CNN regarding his politically incorrect comments on many occasions, but have not heard any acknowledgement.