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Discussing "Lipstickgate," Kurtz asked: "Why, exactly, did the mainstream media go hog-wild over a manufactured story that was pushed by the right?"

September 14, 2008 5:30 pm ET

Howard Kurtz described the "lipstick controversy," regarding a comment made by Sen. Barack Obama, as "ridiculous, trumped-up, phony" and asked, "Why, exactly, did the mainstream media go hog-wild over a manufactured story that was pushed by the right?" Kurtz asserted, "Just about everyone knows it was essentially pushed along and made up by Drudge, Sean Hannity, and the New York Post. ... Surely the media wouldn't fall for this," adding, "And even as they [the media] were saying, 'Well, you know, this isn't quite the way it happened,' it didn't matter. They'd still do segment after segment on it."

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On the September 14 edition of CNN's Reliable Sources, host Howard Kurtz, CNN special correspondent Frank Sesno, and Houston Chronicle White House correspondent Julie Mason criticized the media for its reporting of what Kurtz called "this ridiculous, trumped-up, phony lipstick controversy" over Sen. Barack Obama's comment that "[y]ou can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" while discussing Sen. John McCain's policy proposals. Kurtz teased the segment by asking, "Why, exactly, did the mainstream media go hog-wild over a manufactured story that was pushed by the right?" During the segment, Kurtz asserted: "No one really seriously believes that Barack Obama was talking about [Gov.] Sarah Palin when he used the well-worn barnyard phrase. Just about everyone knows it was essentially pushed along and made up by [Internet gossip Matt] Drudge, [Fox News host] Sean Hannity, and the New York Post, which endorsed McCain, by the way, in a front-page editorial. Surely the media wouldn't fall for this."

Kurtz also said of the media, "[E]ven as they were saying, 'Well, you know, this isn't quite the way it happened,' it didn't matter. They'd still do segment after segment on it."

Also during the segment, Sesno said of the media's coverage of Obama's comments: "[Y]ou know, we've talked about it before, this echo chamber that we're in. Turn a catchy phrase, put out a nasty enough attack, have, you know, something personal and specific enough, and we can't resist it." Kurtz replied, "We're like addicts," to which Sesno said: "We're like addicts. And make it -- as I say, make it catchy and nasty enough, and everybody jumps on. It's a feeding frenzy."

Further, when Kurtz aired a video clip of Obama's assertion that the McCain campaign "seize on an innocent remark, try to take it out of the context, throw up an outrageous ad, because they know it's catnip for the news media," Mason responded: "It's true. I hate to say it. It might be a new low for the news media this late in the game for us to become so distracted with something as trivial as this. And we're not talking about the issues. I wish we were more high-minded."

As Media Matters for America previously documented, on the September 9 edition of CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, Time magazine senior political analyst Mark Halperin characterized the media attention to the lipstick controversy as "a low point in the day ... and one of the low days of our collective coverage of this campaign," and stated: "[T]o spend even a minute on this expression, I think, is amazing and outrageous." And on the September 10 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, NBC News political director Chuck Todd said of media coverage of Obama's comment: "I think the McCain campaign is laughing, laughing their butts off this morning. That any of us have taken the bait on this lipstick thing, I mean, this is a joke. It is laughable."

From the September 14 edition of CNN's Reliable Sources:

KURTZ: When we come back: lipstick and livestock. Why, exactly, did the mainstream media go hog-wild over a manufactured story that was pushed by the right?

[...]

KURTZ: I seriously thought about passing up entirely this ridiculous, trumped-up, phony lipstick controversy. No one really seriously believes that Barack Obama was talking about Sarah Palin when he used the well-worn barnyard phrase. Just about everyone knows it was essentially pushed along and made up by Drudge, Sean Hannity, and the New York Post, which endorsed McCain, by the way, in a front-page editorial. Surely the media wouldn't fall for this. After all, look at what this guy said a few months ago.

McCAIN [video clip]: In 1993, we rejected the then-Clinton universal health care proposal. It was rejected by the American people. I don't like to use this term, but the latest proposal I see is putting lipstick on a pig, as we used to -- as we used to say.

KURTZ: This Lipstickgate was all over cable and led all the network newscasts.

DAVID GREGORY (host, MSNBC's Race for the White House) [video clip]: Tonight, lipstick madness.

ALAN COLMES (co-host, Fox News' Hannity & Colmes) [video clip]: Top story tonight: pigs in lipstick.

WOLF BLITZER (host, CNN's The Situation Room) [video clip]: Lipstick on a pig.

KATIE COURIC (anchor, CBS Evening News) [video clip]: That lipstick comment --

SEAN HANNITY (co-host, Fox News' Hannity & Colmes) [video clip]: We've got this lipstick comment that we've been talking about all night.

BRIT HUME (co-host, Fox News' Special Report) [video clip]: The issue of the day, today, all day: lipstick on a pig.

KYRA PHILLIPS (co-anchor, CNN Newsroom) [video clip]: Lipstick, smears, pigs --

HEATHER NAUERT (host, Fox News' America's Election HQ) [video clip] The lipstick war.

DIANE SAWYER (co-anchor, ABC's Good Morning America) [video clip]: What do we call it? Lipstickgate, I guess.

STEVE MURPHY (Democratic strategist) [video clip]: They're all guilty of, I guess, pig-ism here.

JAKE TAPPER (ABC News senior national correspondent) [video clip]: Barack Obama today said that John McCain was cynically making up a controversy about something that Obama simply never said.

BRIAN WILLIAMS (anchor, NBC Nightly News) [video clip]: If so many know it's happening and the machinery behind it, how do things like this still happen?

KURTZ: You want to disagree with that?

SESNO: No. I just wish I'd bought lipstick futures at the right moment, you know? It is this -- you know, we've talked about it before, this echo chamber that we're in. Turn a catchy phrase, put out a nasty enough attack, have, you know, something personal and specific enough, and we can't resist it.

KURTZ: We're like addicts.

SESNO: We're like addicts. And make it -- as I say, make it catchy and nasty enough, and everybody jumps on. It's a feeding frenzy.

KURTZ: Julie, let's see how Barack Obama characterized it when he was asked about the great lipstick controversy.

OBAMA [video clip]: They seize on an innocent remark, try to take it out of context, throw up an outrageous ad, because they know it's catnip for the news media. [edit] See, it would be funny -- it would be funny except, of course, the news media decided that that was the lead story yesterday.

KURTZ: Catnip for the news media.

MASON: It's true. I hate to say it. It might be a new low for the news media this late in the game for us to become so distracted with something as trivial as this. And we're not talking about the issues. I wish we were more high-minded. But it is a funny story, and everyone was talking about it for a day, and then it was gone.

KURTZ: I think it was about 48 hours. And even as they were saying, "Well, you know, this isn't quite the way it happened," it didn't matter. They'd still do segment after segment on it.

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    • Author by snoopy (September 14, 2008 6:24 pm ET)
         
      I'll let y'all argue about whether or not telling a black man to be respectful to a white woman is racist, but this ad is clearly McCain's dirtiest one yet and will likely ensure another week of pork-o-gate.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 14, 2008 7:05 pm ET)
           
        I agree, Snoopy.  It's a real low point.  Many in the GOP will defend it, but the voiceover is the proof, in my opinion. It's barely deniably racist, but racist all the same.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bruce1ace (September 14, 2008 8:12 pm ET)
             

          Most of the posts about that ad did not think it was racist and I don't see it either.

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 14, 2008 8:31 pm ET)
               
            Fair enough - then you aren't the target consumer.  Most Americans of both parties really are sincere well-meaning good citizens.  Which is why ads like this seem innocuous, except to those who get them viscerally.  Have you ever been to a GOP rally in the Heart of Dixie?  Most Republicans are right-thinking, patriotic people, but the campaign managers are not aiming at you, and the haters know the code.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bruce1ace (September 14, 2008 8:57 pm ET)
                 

              Please explain to me why a campaign would take such a risk for a subset of people who would clearly never vote for Obama anyway, by definition.

              In my view, these ads should absolutely target the undecided voters, otherwise they are a waste of money.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (September 14, 2008 9:01 pm ET)
                   
                Probably for the same reason they picked a VP who clearly targets that same subset of people. Until McCain's base is solidified to back him no matter what he says he'd be wasting time trying to target moderates.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by neon desert (September 14, 2008 10:02 pm ET)
                   

                A risk?!?  You're joking, right?

                They put out an ad accusing Obama of calling Palin a pig, a claim that NOBODY except the hard-line McCainiacs believe is true.  Result: 1 week of "pig lipstick" stories and diversion from both the issues and questionable McCain/Palin behavior.

                They go around lying about Palin's "bridge to nowhere" intentions despite the media and a lot of the public knowing the truth,  Result: no backlash, just more time spent on obvious lies,

                Why would they possibly believe that just making stuff up is a risk?  To this point, the cost of lying has been 0. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 15, 2008 10:24 am ET)
                     
                  And we're going to frickin' lose this thing if the truth continues to be a casualty without any collatoral cost.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 15, 2008 9:13 am ET)
                   
                I think they're aiming for multiple subsets.  For instance, certain union members and women,  whose interests are better represented by the Democratic Party but may be uncomfortable with Obama in a way they don't want to admit to others, or maybe to themselves even.  All the McCain camp needs to do in some cases is give these voters vague justification, just a little nudge, and they win some of them over.  The message is not overtly racist, so it's defensible.  At the same time, if your mind is receptive to the trigger, you can vote your gut - your prejudice - without taking full moral responsibility for it. It's the Southern Strategy, expanded and improved during the 90's culture wars.  
                Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (September 14, 2008 10:51 pm ET)
           

        From C&L's link: 

        "Why on earth would Senator Obama respect anyone from the McCain campaign? Sigh. I hate it when anyone demands respect, whether it's my mom, a cop, a priest, or the McCain campaign. Respect is earned; You'll get it when you show you deserve it."

        The view of the McCain camp seems to be that she does deserve it.  That's their spin.  Note the word "desperately" in the ad, which means that Palin's not a liar.  Also note the part at the end about how Palin proves herself every day.

        "Ordering a black man to show you respect you is pretty over the top in 2008. I'm sure McCain's constituency in the South and perhaps right here in Indiana will recognize the terminology from their (thankfully) long ago heydays of sundown towns and lynch mob gatherings, though, and respond accordingly."

        There's a difference between "ordering" respect and criticizing someone for being disrespectful.  If you really bought into McCain's spin here, then Obama should respect Palin.  There's no racial angle there at all, it would apply to a white person in exactly the same way.  If it was "Palin's a liar" and the response was "you have to respect her" that would be different, because it doesn't address the charge.  He would have to respect her regardless of the validity of his accusation, which is plainly racist.  You can say that a specific black man should not disrespect a specific white woman, but not that black men should respect white women regardless of their behavior.  Respect is indeed earned.

        As far as "terminology" goes, this is a pretty common word.  There's an obvious and valid usage there.  It's not like "uppity" when used by a man in his fifties from Georgia.  I live in Indiana and if anyone was unfairly disrespectful of my wife, I'd call them on it.  If I was accused of using a code word, I would have no idea what the hell they were talking about.  It seems to me like if you can't call a black man out for disrespecting a white woman, then you're giving any black man a free pass on being a sexist.

        If I'm missing something here, someone let me know.  The ad is a crock of crap, but I'm not seeing the rationale for calling it racist.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by zamfir273114 (September 15, 2008 12:01 am ET)
           
        Snoopy, you could have a point. "Disrespectful" seems like a very strange word-choice.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Max Dharma (September 15, 2008 12:54 am ET)
           
        Lol, that's got to be one of the stupidest things I've heard you say ol' snoop.

        There is nothing racist about it .. but since it does behoove the liberals to invent such malarkey, I guess I'm not surprised.

        Here's the truth about the lipstick comment.

        It was a poorly delivered cliché that nobody should have cared about. The republicans blew it by making it into an attack on Gov. Sarah Palin, and the dems now cry racism .. lame.

        I'm embarrassed for both sides.

        Question: Does MMFA ever harbor any meaningful dialog, or is it made up of only sycophants bent on backslapping each other and supporting discord?

        "snoopy says it's a racist comment!"

        "Oh, good call Snoopy"

        "Yeah snoopy! you really showed them stupid neocons."
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mr. l (September 15, 2008 1:08 am ET)
             
          May I politely suggest that you peruse other threads on MMFA?  You will be sure to find robust back and forths between many people of varying political ideology.  And since you are really just being snarky, I can tell you the good discussions come/came with events that affect national security (Outing a CIA operative, invading Irag, Dubia port scandal, etc.) and when abortions and global warming are mentioned.  Those are good readings!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 15, 2008 10:26 am ET)
               
            I've come to believe that Max is actually a Democrat who posts crazy rants to reinforce other Democratic posters' opinions of ill-informed right-wingers. 
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 15, 2008 2:06 am ET)
             

          Max, do you mind if I translate your comment?

          "Waaahhhh... nobody tells me I made a good point. I pay attention to the guys on am radio, and read TownHall, and those people seem so smart. But when I repeat what they say here, people just laugh at me.I hate MMFA so much!"

          Is that about it?

          Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (September 15, 2008 10:02 am ET)
             
          My words exactly:

          I'll let y'all argue about whether or not telling a black man to be respectful to a white woman is racist, but this ad is clearly McCain's dirtiest one yet and will likely ensure another week of pork-o-gate.

          In your desperation to insult at 9,000 rounds per minute you overlooked a key fact which is I never said it was racist. But I'm not surprised, like the timing of your post your comment is a day late and a dollar short.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by ukobserver (September 14, 2008 6:37 pm ET)
         

      So at the start we have: 

       

      "KURTZ: I seriously thought about passing up entirely this ridiculous, trumped-up, phony lipstick controversy. No one really seriously believes that Barack Obama was talking about Sarah Palin when he used the well-worn barnyard phrase. Just about everyone knows it was essentially pushed along and made up by Drudge, Sean Hannity, and the New York Post, which endorsed McCain, by the way, in a front-page editorial."

       

      Then later:

       

      "SESNO: No. I just wish I'd bought lipstick futures at the right moment, you know? It is this -- you know, we've talked about it before, this echo chamber that we're in. Turn a catchy phrase, put out a nasty enough attack, have, you know, something personal and specific enough, and we can't resist it.

      KURTZ: We're like addicts.

      SESNO: We're like addicts. And make it -- as I say, make it catchy and nasty enough, and everybody jumps on. It's a feeding frenzy."

      As well as:

       

      "KURTZ: Catnip for the news media.

      MASON: It's true. I hate to say it. It might be a new low for the news media this late in the game for us to become so distracted with something as trivial as this. And we're not talking about the issues. I wish we were more high-minded. But it is a funny story, and everyone was talking about it for a day, and then it was gone.

      KURTZ: I think it was about 48 hours. And even as they were saying, "Well, you know, this isn't quite the way it happened," it didn't matter. They'd still do segment after segment on it."

      So to sum it up, the McCain camp lies. They admit they are lying but don't care. The media do a story on the lie for at least one news cycle even though they know it's a lie. They then wring their hands or shake their heads tutting about how bad the lie is BUT STILL DO NEWS STORIES ON IT INSTEAD OF HAMMERING THE MCCAIN CAMP FOR THE LIES THEY KEEP TELLING. 

       

      This isn't addiction, this is recidivism along with a complete abdiction of responisbility and integrity. The news media's job is supposed to be to report the facts. McCain is lying AGAIN. THAT should be the story.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by mjpresti (September 14, 2008 6:47 pm ET)
         

      "Fabricated by the right."
      O please thats rich, as far as i know it was obama that said it not the right wing media. If they chose to comment on what he said that doesn't mean they expanding something. If the mainstream media choses to report thats because they wanted to not because the right tricked them into doing it.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2008 6:50 pm ET)
         

      Are we to really believe that these idiots aren't acutely aware of the fact that they've been on a continual "new low" for the better part of the last - what 10-15 years or so?

      I wish we were more high-minded.

      Are you freakin' kidding me? Mason says this like there's just not a damn thing they can do about it. Like they've just been collectively having a bad hair day all this time. It's always fascinating to me when these eejits sit around and make the story about themselves.

      How about a little less talk and a lot more action? Bunch of navel gazing miscreants. Sheesh

      Report Abuse
      • Author by eb (September 14, 2008 7:06 pm ET)
           

        The nasty he said she said is a lot easier to cover and a lot more sensational.  Actually discussing policy and explaining issues is no fun.  You loose market share when people press the remote button.

        Obama's "insult" is a lot more fun then say... explaining why so many of our financial instutions are belly up.  Of course that kind of story would, for the patient viewer, actually help him or her have an informed decision.

        Lipstick hysteria journalism gives the viewer the oportunity to make an emotional decision based on how they think they know the candidates.  This way our election has very little to do with policy and everything to do with personality.  

        Report Abuse
    • Author by steeve (September 14, 2008 7:09 pm ET)
         
      I've run out of words for the abominable embarrassment that is the national media. Why weren't every one of their faces beet red throughout the segment?

      Not only can't anyone in any other profession suck at their job as bad as this, they can't even imagine how to suck at their job that bad. It'd be like me coming in tomorrow, smashing my computer against the wall, and folding little paper birds from paper in the copying machine.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by princeofwheels (September 14, 2008 7:57 pm ET)
           

        STEEVE, you are close to being called an elitist around here. You have a computer, a copying machine and know how to fold paper into birds. If you have ever visited a foreign country, you would be qualified for the VP slot...a little lipstick and rouge wouldn't hurt.

        This whole group of media types sit around and blame media types for being media types. They don't think anyone should discuss what they don't want to discuss but are discussing. The 24 hr news cycles need nonsense so your Seannie the Sissy types just make things up. And Drudge, now there is a one-trick pony. When are we going to start talking and/or hearing that Michelle Obama tape? How can people be so wrong about 99% of what they say and still be taken seriously?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by eb (September 14, 2008 7:59 pm ET)
             

          "How can people be so wrong about 99% of what they say and still be taken seriously?"

          Pretty amazing, isn't it? 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by eddy3957 reregistered (September 14, 2008 8:53 pm ET)
               

            "How can people be so wrong about 99% of what they say and still be taken seriously?

            ----------------------

                 It’s the scarcity factor in combination with the instinct to know the latest gossip.

                 Like collectibles on eBay, a big part of the value people leave on these “journalists” and the resulting viewership of their shows derives from their limited nature, not so much their educational or entertainment utility.  There are still only so many TV stations.

                 The thinking goes,”It’s on the TV (or newspaper; radio) so it must be worthwhile in some way, to some people.”  The audience may not ascribe credibility to them but they want to see it anyway to know what the rest of the audience is seeing.  They watch/listen to get the buzz even though they may realize it’s bad buzz.  The stations and stars maintain an audience despite themselves.

                 The light at the end of tunnel is the computer becoming the TV (or newspaper; radio) with virtually unlimited “stations”, which is an ongoing process right now.  

            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2008 9:53 pm ET)
                 
              The light at the end of tunnel is the computer becoming the TV (or newspaper; radio) with virtually unlimited “stations”, which is an ongoing process right now.  

               

              • - eddy3957 reregistered / Sunday September 14, 2008

               

              Not if big internet providers like Comcast get their way.

              Report Abuse
        • Author by TadekKorn (September 15, 2008 4:55 am ET)
             

          An excellent question, Princeofwheels: How DO they get it wrong 99% or the time and still dominate the air waves?  Once again, Bishop Okham's principle should come to mind: the simplest explanation is likely the most plausible one.  A free press that is owned by corporate entities whose jprofits are tied to a military-industrial complex may have something to do with skewing the agenda.  If it looks like propaganda, it may indeed BE propaganda.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2008 7:57 pm ET)
           
        I guess it's subjective to say they suck at their jobs. They are paid to be corporate lap dogs propagandists, after all. They're really quite good at that. Now real journalism is an entirely different thing. They do suck at that. I think maybe we should find a new word for them. There needs to be a new categorical descripter here.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 14, 2008 8:05 pm ET)
             
          You're right Julia.  My vote for the new word is an old word - TASS.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2008 8:19 pm ET)
               
            Old school, I like it. I'm thinking of another word, but it's too dirty to post :-0)
            Report Abuse
          • Author by lapsedlawyer (September 15, 2008 5:39 am ET)
               
            Reminds me of a joke my Russian language prof in college told us that ran around the streets under the old Soviet Union about the two main newspapers, Pravda (The Truth) and Isvestia (The News):  "In The Truth there is no news, and in The News there is no truth." 
            Report Abuse
        • Author by steeve (September 15, 2008 12:59 am ET)
             
          "They are paid to be corporate lap dogs propagandists, after all. They're really quite good at that."

          I don't see skill of any kind in the media. The trivia is glaring, the propaganda is transparent, the advocating is empty.

          Case in point. You're the New York Times and you want to advance the cause of big business in your editorial page. Do you hire an intelligent conservative with excellent persuasive skill, or do you hire Kristol?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne (September 15, 2008 10:03 am ET)
               
            Do you hire an intelligent conservative with excellent persuasive skill, or do you hire Kristol?
            • - steeve / Monday September 15, 2008 12:59:57 AM EDT

             

            Well, Steve, you got me there, Ha!

            But the NYT knew exactly what they were getting with Kristol. A top notch propagandist. Now he doesn't fool intelligent people, but they weren't aiming for us :-0) They were aiming for the less sophisticated (how's that for putting lipstick on a pig ?) among our brethern.

            I did want to mention though that I appreciate the fact that you're obviously a big picture thinker and I like your posts. Keep 'em coming.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by steeve (September 15, 2008 11:40 am ET)
                 
              I probably don't know what it means to be good at propaganda, and it might help me understand the media. The bias I can explain; the stupidity I can't.

              If I were told to convince a room full of idiots that supply-side economics was wrong, I'd break out my revolutionary 4-question supply side quiz (not yet revealed at MMFA -- waiting for the opportunity) and try to get them with simple logic. Apparently, chanting "tax cuts suck" over and over and telling them that a balanced budget lets all kittens get into heaven would get better results.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by gg (September 14, 2008 8:40 pm ET)
         
      KURTZ: I think it was about 48 hours. And even as they were saying, "Well, you know, this isn't quite the way it happened," it didn't matter. They'd still do segment after segment on it.

      So do you!! You are still on this! And it does matter, rather then engaging in informative matters and educating your idiot TV viewers, you are indulging in looking at, as Jon Stewart says "a bright shiny object". This is a distraction which only helps the rightwing because they haven't any solutions to the problems we face in the country today.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by cArn (September 14, 2008 10:23 pm ET)
         
      I'm sorry, but I just don't see how that ad is racist in any way. Deceptive, misleading, and inaccurate, yes. But not racist. They're just trying to characterize Obama as a disgruntled "celebrity" who is belittling Palin for stealing his limelight (mind reading).
      Report Abuse
    • Author by moondancer (September 14, 2008 10:33 pm ET)
         
      As if Kurtzs hand are clean....what an ass. Even the gray lady has blood on their hands.  If you run the pig slop from the noise machine then tsk tsk the patent lies, you've earned a hearty FU from me...and maybe the American Caligula as president
      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (September 14, 2008 11:14 pm ET)
         
      Can't find the rationale for calling the "disrespectful" ad racist? Of course not, it's because the subconscious mind is not rational. If you think for a minute that the people who put these ads together don't know how to ring those subconscious bells, you're out of your mind.

      You can't un-ring that bell.

      Shit people the GOP have been courting the confederate bigots in every election since 1968, they have not earned any benefit of the doubt on this.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (September 14, 2008 11:39 pm ET)
           

        By the same token, attacks on Palin are sexist, because there's some subtle bell-ringing going on there.

        If this is dog-whistle, I want to know how.  If it can't be explained, then it's not there.  We seem to be getting into "you can't criticize Obama because he's black" territory, while "you can't criticize Palin because she's a woman" is rightly dismissed.  The point should be that the ad is dishonest, which is based on much more than simple gut reaction.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (September 15, 2008 12:12 am ET)
             
          Not really. Political preference is gut reaction.

          If it can't explained, it's not there? Tell us what used to happen to negroes who disrespected white women. Don't tell me it ain't there.

          Show me the sexist bell ringing coming out of the Obama camp's emphasis on Palin's negatives and we'll have a discussion about that. Otherwise to make the jump that attacks on her are necessarily, subtly sexist simply assumes both sides are in the gutter and is, to be honest, dismissive of right-wing political history.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 12:37 am ET)
               

            So because black men were lynched for being disrespectful of white women means that you can't use the word "disrespectful" at all?

            Just for the sake of argument, let's say Hillary won the nomination and McCain picked Alan Keyes as his running mate, the same sort of stunt he pulled with Palin.  Keyes calls Hillary an immoral bitch.  Now, if you say he's disrespectful, you're a racist.

            The criticisms of Palin aren't sexist, that's the point.  The charge has to be demonstrable in some way, or it doesn't work. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by TadekKorn (September 15, 2008 5:18 am ET)
                 
              I think we can all agree that people who persist in telling untruths rightfully earn the label: liars.  People who consistently get facts wrong or do not know facts that they're expected to know are either ignorant or simply fools.  At the very least, both members of the Republican ticket have distinguished themselves as liars.  They may be well-intentioned liars--their intent being to win an election, but they're liars nonetheless.  There's no real need to add the other inelegant categories in which they could just as easily fit.  John McCain's truth lapses may be attributable to his age.  The fact that  he can't distinguish between Shiite and Sunni and can't quite remember how many homes does not breed much confidence.  We already have a legacy C student occupying the White House.  Can this country afford another leader who graduated at the bottom of his class? 
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Lorelei (September 15, 2008 12:33 pm ET)
                 

              Yes you can, when they "are" being disrespectful.  You can say that to a white man, yellow man, red man...to a woman...to anyone when they are in fact disrespectful.

              However, Obama, lets not forget, HAS NOT BEEN DISRESPECTFUL.  

              Furthermore, in the far south, disrespectful blacks, where hung off the lamp posts.  (as told to my by my grand mother, she saw it happen) Whether they were respectful or not.

              The association is there for all to see.  You can deny it if you want to, it does not make it go away. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by leftinmississippi (September 15, 2008 1:09 pm ET)
                   

                You are right, Lorelei.  Until the day she stopped driving (which wasn't that long ago, really), when my grandmother needed gas in her car she would just drive up to the station in her little town and wait for a black man to come along.  She would wave him down, ask him (very sweetly) to pump her gas, and then tip him.  If one had ever refused she would have thought him terribly rude - maybe even disrespectful. I would be interested to know in which parts of the country this ad is playing.  

                Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 1:41 pm ET)
                   

                Like I said, this is their spin.  The validity of the charge only affects the validity, it doesn't make it racist.   The ad clearly implies that Palin deserves respect, so it's not a generalized statement about the dynamics between black men and white women.  If Bay Buchanan or some other apologist were to say this, then be faced with her lies and other negatives and still say that Obama was disrespectful, that's another story.

                Racists can read anything into any criticism of a black person, valid or not.  Obama is "irresponsible" would lead some people to say "yep, black people are irresponsible".  If you really have to find language that racists aren't going to identify with in some way, then it's going to become difficult to criticize any black man, as in the Alan Keyes analogy above.

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            • Author by roundhouse (September 15, 2008 2:16 pm ET)
                 
              "So because black men were lynched for being disrespectful of white women means that you can't use the word "disrespectful" at all?"

              Use the damn word all you like, just don't act like it's not an allusion to the good old days when the white male power structure could do whatever the hell they wanted to black people.

              "Just for the sake of argument, let's say Hillary won the nomination and McCain picked Alan Keyes as his running mate, the same sort of stunt he pulled with Palin. Keyes calls Hillary an immoral bitch. Now, if you say he's disrespectful, you're a racist."

              Considering the Obama camp has said no such thing about Palin in any way shape or form, you're letting your agitation with me formulate an absolutely stupid line of argument. The more likely rendering would be more to the order of, Keyes calls into question certain inconsistencies of Hillary's stories, as in when she reported to have gone into a combat zone. He says she's a liar. That's not disrespectful, that's the calling a liar a liar. Next time, before you open your mouth on this consider the symmetry longer. Your hypothetical is asymmetrical. Obama has been nothing but respectful to Palin.

              "The criticisms of Palin aren't sexist, that's the point. The charge has to be demonstrable in some way, or it doesn't work."

              That sentence makes me wonder why you wrote anything before it. No shit. Obama is not being sexist, not even a little.

              The 'charge?' Which one? sexism or racism? Either way, do you really believe most folks are looking that hard at it? Do you really believe most people want to believe or disbelieve anything beyond how it fits their agenda? Of course this crap doesn't need to be demonstrated to be valid. People will respond to the emotional string tugging.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 4:02 pm ET)
                   

                "Use the damn word all you like, just don't act like it's not an allusion to the good old days when the white male power structure could do whatever the hell they wanted to black people."

                "Would you say that to/about a white person" is a good test to keep in mind.  Would you say a white person was "disrespectful"?  Why not?  The fact that black men were lynched for being "disrespectful" is an awfully weak link, since the word is so common.  There's a non-racial criticism there, whether valid or not.

                "Considering the Obama camp has said no such thing about Palin in any way shape or form, you're letting your agitation with me formulate an absolutely stupid line of argument. The more likely rendering would be more to the order of, Keyes calls into question certain inconsistencies of Hillary's stories, as in when she reported to have gone into a combat zone. He says she's a liar. That's not disrespectful, that's the calling a liar a liar. Next time, before you open your mouth on this consider the symmetry longer. Your hypothetical is asymmetrical. Obama has been nothing but respectful to Palin."

                My agitation?  Seriously?

                I'm not saying Obama's done anything remotely similar, or that even if he did the situations would be equivalent.  These things are not required to support my point.  What I'm saying is that if you declare a perfectly common word and concept to be off-limits, you can't use it whether it's justified or not.  If the argument is that Obama hasn't been disrespectful, fine.  If it's that the criticism is racist by nature, that's a different matter.  Try reading through all this again, and see if you don't get my point a little bit better.

                "That sentence makes me wonder why you wrote anything before it. No shit. Obama is not being sexist, not even a little...The 'charge?' Which one? sexism or racism? Either way, do you really believe most folks are looking that hard at it? Do you really believe most people want to believe or disbelieve anything beyond how it fits their agenda? Of course this crap doesn't need to be demonstrated to be valid. People will respond to the emotional string tugging."

                Both sexism and racism, of course.  The "dog-whistle" aspect has to be demonstrated in order to be taken seriously.  "Obama referenced lipstick to a pig because he's harkening back to days when women were treated as animals or property...people aren't going to analyze it, they'll respond to the emotional string-tugging".   You don't take that seriously, because it's not adequately demonstrated.  The ad clearly implies that Palin, specifically, deserves respect.  It says that Obama, specifically, isn't giving her that respect.  This is their spin.  Of course it's a steaming load of BS, but that's the argument that is supported by stronger reasoning.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 4:24 am ET)
                     
                  "My agitation? Seriously?"

                  Don't pretend to be disinterested, it does not in any way suit your inquisitive and introspective nature.

                  Yeah, I know you're agitated with me. So don't play it it like you're so cool and above it. You're an insightful and earnest poster and to rub up against an aggressively contrary writer like me would chap the most patient ass. Most importantly, you care enough to spend your time going back and forth on this. You care alot, that's why I read as many of your posts I can.

                  I know what I'm doing and I do it for a purpose. We both want to learn something real, so I'm pushing you and you're pushing back.

                  Now let's get it.

                  "So because black men were lynched for being disrespectful of white women means that you can't use the word "disrespectful" at all?"

                  "The charge has to be demonstrable in some way, or it doesn't work."

                  No. It doesn't mean that at all. It simply means that a concerted (consorted?) effort is being made to stir up the dust of resentment and fear in the prefrontal lobe of the brain. This McCain appeal is absolutely intentional. Words have connotation and context. In your counter (So because black men were lynched for being disrespectful of white women means that you can't use the word "disrespectful" at all?), you have set up the same kind of false choice Tommy tends to throw at you. It's a false choice because in this country only black men have been lynched for being disrespectful. The opposite scenario is not a choice to actually consider with much emotional attachment, it does not exist

                  Maybe it's because you and Tommy both subscribe to an outdated model of the rationalist mind, maybe because you're both simply argumentative; you both are practicing the exact same mental creationism that dictates humans are rational thinkers. We are not. Pay attention to the science. We are first and foremost, emotional thinkers. To blandly insist that Obama has to be proven to be sexist for these 'disrespectful' ads to have valid impact on the conscious mind is a trap.

                  "Would you say that to/about a white person"

                  False equivalence. I have heard you argue much the same this is not a color blind society line with the rightwingers here.

                  History in this country , with which we are closely associated as Americans, does not have much bearing on the converse hypothetical you propose with that, "Would you say that to/about a white person," test. White people have never been lynched for being disrespectful to black women.

                  Nope. Understanding the slippery slope that charges of racism present, I reject your argument. Cons have a rich tradition with these things. That you won't allow yourself to see it is a testament to its subtlety. This 'disrespectful' stuff from McCain is a living, breathing racist entity.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Brabantio (September 16, 2008 9:46 am ET)
                       

                    "Don't pretend to be disinterested, it does not in any way suit your inquisitive and introspective nature...Yeah, I know you're agitated with me. So don't play it it like you're so cool and above it. You're an insightful and earnest poster and to rub up against an aggressively contrary writer like me would chap the most patient ass. Most importantly, you care enough to spend your time going back and forth on this. You care alot, that's why I read as many of your posts I can... I know what I'm doing and I do it for a purpose. We both want to learn something real, so I'm pushing you and you're pushing back."

                    There's nothing whatsoever in my previous post to suggest I was getting upset, and your tone suggested you were simply projecting.  I appreciate the kind words, though, thank you.

                    "No. It doesn't mean that at all. It simply means that a concerted (consorted?) effort is being made to stir up the dust of resentment and fear in the prefrontal lobe of the brain. This McCain appeal is absolutely intentional. Words have connotation and context. In your counter (So because black men were lynched for being disrespectful of white women means that you can't use the word "disrespectful" at all?), you have set up the same kind of false choice Tommy tends to throw at you. It's a false choice because in this country only black men have been lynched for being disrespectful. The opposite scenario is not a choice to actually consider with much emotional attachment, it does not exist"

                    You seem to be highly confused.  I know white men haven't been lynched.  That has no bearing on the argument that a reference to the common concept of "disrespect" must be intentionally racist.  You say that "it doesn't mean that at all", but the upshot seems to be that you just can't use the word for any black person at all.  Can you clarify? 

                    "Maybe it's because you and Tommy both subscribe to an outdated model of the rationalist mind, maybe because you're both simply argumentative; you both are practicing the exact same mental creationism that dictates humans are rational thinkers. We are not. Pay attention to the science. We are first and foremost, emotional thinkers. To blandly insist that Obama has to be proven to be sexist for these 'disrespectful' ads to have valid impact on the conscious mind is a trap."

                    Again, you are confused.  I'm not saying that he has to be proven sexist for the ad to have an impact.  I'm saying that it's difficult to prove racist intent for using such a common word and concept.  If McCain told Obama in a debate "Our security hangs in the balance" some people might jump on the word "hangs" as a lynching reference.  Would that be justified?  You keep enforcing my original point about the "lipstick on a pig" comment.  We're not rational thinkers, so of course people are going to take that as a Palin reference, right?  Does that prove Obama intended for people to do that?  If Obama used the word "depends" a few times in the debates, would that be ageist because it was a subtle reference to incontinence?

                    "False equivalence. I have heard you argue much the same this is not a color blind society line with the rightwingers here."

                    What are you talking about?  I've always used that test.  There are racially loaded words, as I've said, but the connection here seems to be too weak to label this as one.  This has been my point all along.

                    "History in this country , with which we are closely associated as Americans, does not have much bearing on the converse hypothetical you propose with that, "Would you say that to/about a white person," test. White people have never been lynched for being disrespectful to black women."

                    You have to jump to the lynching reference, though.  Again, if I called a black man disrespectful for calling my wife a "ho", he could say I was racist.  I wouldn't have thought of that.  Why would I?  I would say the same thing to a white person.  The fact that white people weren't lynched doesn't change that fact.

                    "Nope. Understanding the slippery slope that charges of racism present, I reject your argument. Cons have a rich tradition with these things. That you won't allow yourself to see it is a testament to its subtlety. This 'disrespectful' stuff from McCain is a living, breathing racist entity."

                    Again, you could say the same thing about "lipstick".  You won't allow yourself to see the sexism, and that's a testament to its subtlety.  This is exactly why charges have to be demonstrated and justified, because it works both ways.  If we have license to make assumptions, so do they.

                    The bottom line is that you don't know.  You're looking at a situation where he might not have thought of this racial angle at all.  Someone else brought up "would they say 'disrespectful' if McCain picked a man to be his VP", and that's an interesting point.  It seems more reasonable to argue that it's accusing Obama of sexism, especially considering the first two items listed in the ad.

                    Did women gather up and lynch black men?  Or was that something men did?  Listen to the video and tell me whose voice you hear.  If McCain was really playing to racism here, he should at least have a man do the voiceover, if not a man with a southern accent.

                    I know, it just makes it that much more subtle, right?  The same way Obama didn't even mention Palin anywhere near the lipstick remark.  The same way Clark disrespected McCain's service right after praising his service.  If connotations mean as much as you suggest they do here, you're opening the door for all sorts of baseless accusations from the other side.  Think about it.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 12:22 pm ET)
                         
                      "Again, you are confused. I'm not saying that he has to be proven sexist for the ad to have an impact."

                      Well, actually you are saying exactly that, "The criticisms of Palin aren't sexist, that's the point. The charge has to be demonstrable in some way, or it doesn't work."

                      I'm done with you until you stop talking in circles.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Brabantio (September 16, 2008 1:20 pm ET)
                           

                        There's a difference between some people's perception and a valid argument justifying that perception.  I'm talking about valid arguments when I say "does not work".  If you can't show how a charge of racism is justified, then the charge shouldn't be made. 

                        Report Abuse
    • Author by rdirkse (September 15, 2008 12:00 am ET)
         

      Check out another nasty thing the Republicans are doing

       

      http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=12243

      Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (September 15, 2008 12:37 am ET)
         

      Another look at this subject by Deepak Chopra ........"Obama and the Palin Effect"

      Sometimes politics has the uncanny effect of mirroring the national psyche even when nobody intended to do that. This is perfectly illustrated by the rousing effect that Gov. Sarah Palin had on the Republican convention in Minneapolis this week.
       On the surface, she outdoes former Vice President Dan Quayle as an unlikely choice, given her negligent parochial expertise in the complex affairs of governing. Her state of Alaska has less than 700,000 residents, which reduces the job of governor to the scale of running one tenth of New York City. By comparison, Rudy Giuliani is a towering international figure. Palin's pluck has been admired, and her forthrightness, but her real appeal goes deeper. She is the reverse of Barack Obama, in essence his shadow, deriding his idealism and exhorting people to obey their worst impulses. In psychological terms the shadow is that part of the psyche that hides out of sight, countering our aspirations, virtue, and vision with qualities we are ashamed to face: anger,fear, revenge, violence, selfishness, and suspicion of "the other."

       For millions of Americans, Obama triggers those feelings, but they don't want to express them. He is calling for us to reach for our higher selves, and frankly, that stirs up hidden reactions of an unsavory kind. (Just to be perfectly clear, I am not making a verbal play out of the fact that Sen. Obama is black. The shadow is a metaphor widely in use before his arrival on the scene.) I recognize that psychological analysis of politics is usually not welcome by the public, but I believe such a perspective can be helpful here to understand Palin's message. In her acceptance speech Gov. Palin sent a rousing call to those who want to celebrate their resistance to change and a higher vision.
       Look at what she stands for:

      . Small town values -- a denial of America's global role, a return to petty,
       small-minded parochialism.
       Ignorance of world affairs; a repudiation of the need to repair America's
       image abroad.
       Family values -- a code for walling out anybody who makes a claim for
      social justice. Such strangers, being outside the family, don't need to be heeded.
       Rigid stands on guns and abortion -- a scornful repudiation that these
      issues can be negotiated with those who disagree.
      Patriotism -- the usual fallback in a failed war.
       "Reform" -- an italicized term, since in addition to cleaning out
      corruption and excessive spending, one also throws out anyone who doesn't fit your ideology.
      Palin reinforces the overall message of the reactionary right, which has been
       in play since 1980, that social justice is liberal-radical, that minorities
       and immigrants, being different from "us" pure American types, can be ignored,that progressivism takes too much effort and globalism is a foreign threat.

       The radical right marches under the banners of "I'm all right, Jack," and "Why change? Everything's OK as it is." The irony, of course, is that Gov. Palin is
      a woman and a reactionary at the same time. She can add mom to apple pie on her resume, while blithely reversing forty years of feminist progress.
      The irony is superficial; there are millions of women who stand on the side
       of conservatism, however obviously they are voting against their own good. The
       Republicans have won multiple national elections by raising shadow issues
       based on fear, rejection, hostility to change, and narrow-mindedness.

      Obama's call for higher ideals in politics can't be seen in a vacuum. The
       shadow is real; it was bound to respond. Not just conservatives possess a shadow
      -- we all do. So what comes next is a contest between the two forces of
       progress and inertia. Will the shadow win again, or has its furtive appeal become exhausted? No one can predict. The best thing about Gov. Palin is that she brought this conflict to light, which makes the upcoming debate honest. It would be a shame to elect another Reagan, whose smiling persona was a stalking horse for the reactionary forces that have brought us to the demoralized state we are in.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by neon desert (September 15, 2008 1:14 am ET)
           

        One truism from that really stood out to me:

         [Obama] is calling for us to reach for our higher selves, and frankly, that stirs up hidden reactions of an unsavory kind. 

        This is what I find to be the biggest difference between the Democratic and Republican campaigns,  The Democrats campaign on a platform that looks to improve things, while the Republicans campaign on a platform that provokes fear of losing things.

        Kind of ironic when you consider the way Republicans have begun taking away some of the basic human rights guaranteed by the constitution... 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 15, 2008 1:51 am ET)
             

          Neon, that's a good point. I sort of miss Rachel Maddow as my after-work drive time radio show (since she got the TV gig) but Ron Reagan has replaced her here in SoCal, and has a pretty good show. The other day he had on Naomi Klein, discussing her book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, and it sounds like pretty intresting stuff.

          I haven't read it (any reviews from posters?) but she has some pretty great insights into how Americans can be easily persuaded into giving up constitutional rights, or thinking that drilling for oil is a logical solution to our energy problems, if they're frightened enough.

          Seems like half of American voters are willing to surrender not only basic American principles,but to abandon logic completely if their Republican daddy surrogates tell them they'll be safe and have cheap gas for their Hummers.

          It's like they've been in a coma for the past eight years.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by neon desert (September 15, 2008 10:18 am ET)
               

            The last eight years don't matter, because they're being told (by the same people responsible for the last eight years) that the last eight years don't matter when considering the new and improved "Change" candidate.  Who -by the way - is going to shake up Washington with the maverick reforms he hasn't been able to promote over his last 26 years as a senator.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (September 15, 2008 11:47 am ET)
               
            After I read John Dean's book Conservative Without Conscience, I understood what we're up against.  People generally being stupid doesn't help, either.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by mr. l (September 15, 2008 12:41 pm ET)
               
            I'm reading her book right now- it's pretty damn good and informative.  Only 50 pages in and I already (again) want to strangle the WTO and the deceased Friedman's followers.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 3:15 am ET)
               
            Not a review of the Shock Doctrine, but a piece of the nascent con-pie , as related by Klein, that is disaster capitalism.

            http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080218/klein
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 15, 2008 2:02 am ET)
           

        Mary, thanks for that. Reagan ran in(and won) the first election that I was old enough to vote in. I was only 18, but had a pretty functioning bullsh*t detector,and couldn't believe that mannequin won.

        I don't have the hatred for Reagan that a lot of people I know do, I just see him as a symbol for the start of what we're experiencing now, the complete replacement of substance with feel-good style that has consumed our politics, specifically in the GOP.

        I don't think The Gipper was any more responsible for the damage he did thhan GW Bush was, or McCain will be if the nation is stupid enough to elect him. I just think the Republican party has figured out that they only need to nominate a bumpkin drinking buddy puppet, and they've got a good shot at millions of voters.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by albertsenj (September 15, 2008 12:48 am ET)
         

      IMHO the ONLY way this could have been covered responsibly would be:

      "The McCain camp is putting out an ad claiming that a 'pig in lipstick' comment that Obama made in a speech about McCain's policies was supposed to be a slam against Palin", followed by playing a clip from Obama's speech with the lipstick comment in context"

      Picking up the GOP talking points and running with them is irresponsible. Are there NO journalistic standards?

      Balancing coverage by repeating false accusations (or responses to truthful accusations) is not journalism, it is merely an extension of a campaigns PR operation. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mescal (September 15, 2008 4:03 am ET)
           

        "Are there NO journalistic standards?" - Albertsenj

        No.

        They were replaced long ago by the revenues to be found in high ratings.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (September 15, 2008 1:04 am ET)
         

      Amazing.. McCain hadn't even met her yet and HE was calling her a pig. 

      I'm using the infallable logic formulation Republicans use of course.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jeremy (September 15, 2008 11:56 am ET)
         
      I'm glad members of the media can have good laugh while they completely screw the electorate with this nonsense.  Ironically, without the internet, our sources for real information would be extremely limited.  Perhaps these bozos will laugh themselves out of a job as their minute audiences continue to seek out alternatives.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by skettle2000 (September 15, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
           
        Bottom line is nobody really knows what Obama meant.   You can give evidence either way but he is the only one that really knows.  I will say he should have anticipated the response from his comment, regardless if the media response was fair or not.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 4:07 pm ET)
             

          That's easily one of the stupidest things I've read here.  If the criticism isn't fair, then how could you be expected to anticipate it?  People are supposed to check themselves on every sentence they speak because someone might make some unjustifiable criticism of it?

          The context shows what he meant.  If there's no reason to think he meant something different, that's what you go with.  It's not a mystery for the ages.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by skettle2000 (September 15, 2008 5:06 pm ET)
               
            No people are not suppose to check themselves.  But when you are in the middle of  a presidential race, I think it might be a good idea to be very careful, if you wish to win.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 5:46 pm ET)
                 
              So how is using a phrase that McCain himself used not careful?  What would lead him to believe that it was a mistake, even in the moments after he said it?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by skettle2000 (September 15, 2008 7:43 pm ET)
                   
                I mean he should have realized, that using that expression, so close to Palin's hockey mom lipstick comment could be interpreted the wrong way, or that at least the Right Wing Attack Machine would use it to their advantage.  I'm not saying the press was right but that's just how politics are.  You have to watch yourself - rightly or wrongly.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 8:21 pm ET)
                     

                  But Palin wasn't anywhere near the topic.  So basically no Democrat can use that phrase because Palin made some comment containing the word "lipstick" at the RNC.  It doesn't matter how old or established the phrase is, Palin's usage makes it unavailable.  Ridiculous.

                  This is a good example of why we need an honest and objective media.  There should be no way of using something this phony to your advantage.  If you can make a controversy out of this, you can make one out of just about anything, and there's no way to prevent such unreasonable criticism.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by skettle2000 (September 15, 2008 8:54 pm ET)
                       

                    I'm mean there are lot's of things in both campaigns that might be considered unethical.   I guess that is the nature of politics.  I mean I think if the media goes to attack it does turn people off.  I think people stopped watching NBC because Olberman was so biased that it just turned people off.  It is my belief that FOX became popular as a backlash against the media becoming too liberal.

                    I think Oreilly understands this somewhat.  He is careful not to be too, too biased because he knows it will effect his ratings if he pushes it too far.  

                    I mean the ultimate responsibility is the american citizen.  If you want the country to be a better place, educate yourself, take the media with a grain of salt and watch the programs that are pretty fair.  I mean I don't think there is a hell of a lot of difference between the policies of McCain and Obama.   I think whoever gets there is going to face the gridlock and that's it.   

                     

                     

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Brabantio (September 15, 2008 9:37 pm ET)
                         

                      Unethical?  You're all over the place here.

                      People should do a lot of things, but that doesn't absolve others of responsibility as well.  We expect our media to do their jobs, so that we can get objective information and analysis from all sources.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by skettle2000 (September 16, 2008 3:44 am ET)
                           
                        Well you are an idealist, which many people are. I guess media is a business and they will sell what they can sell. This isn't anything new - before TV there were always left wing newspapers and right wing newspapers.  Both spin the facts towards the value system of their audience.   
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 1:09 pm ET)
                             
                          And you accept that profit frame despite the fact that our founding fathers recognized that a free and unbiased press was essential to the survival of our democratic republic?

                          Media outlets used to operate at a very thin margin of profit, reporters were paid working class wages and we got the news. But then information became commodified no different than the selling of a better mousetrap or widget.

                          That belief in information for profit is sick. It's that conservative sickness of profit first.

                          Thank goodness for the internet, it once again democratized information.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Brabantio (September 16, 2008 1:25 pm ET)
                             
                          No, a viewpoint on an editorial page doesn't mean that everything in a newspaper is skewed.  You can also be lean to the right and be honest about McCain's tactics here.  It doesn't have to be tooth-and-nail for every little piece of right-wing spin.
                          Report Abuse
    • Author by jmh (September 15, 2008 5:51 pm ET)
         
      I stand by my previous "hook line and sinker" post on another thread: Republicans are masters of this campaign strategy (of course it is unethical).

      By spending time on bogus claims by the right little time is spent

      questioning McCain's character, the policies he stands for, the character and quality of his running mate. There is very little rational countering of the Republican preemptive...

      (I am pretty sure Hannity charged the Dems with "sexism" amd maltreatment even before anyone said a word about Palin one way or the other)

      ...spin machine. The only saving grace is that the American people may see through this round of smoke-and-mirrors.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by skettle2000 (September 15, 2008 7:46 pm ET)
           
        True enough but the left is looking bad as well with all this stuff about Palin faking her pregnancy.   Also I think the left looks bad for that stuff about McCain not using the internet or email.   It looks low.  Now I see some right wing sites saying McCain does not use email because of his POW injuries not being able to type.  It is pretty funny all this back and forth.   
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        • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 1:02 pm ET)
             
          That's truly funny. I don't think the left looks as bad as you'd like.

          Only fringe lefties, way beyond the mainstream gave a second thought to the fake pregnancy stuff.

          It's very legitimate to point out McCain's learned helplessness with computers. McCain not knowing how use common technology should set off alarms about his competency to lead our country into the future.
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          • Author by skettle2000 (September 16, 2008 1:08 pm ET)
               
            I think that's stretching it a bit.  Even homeland security apparently has told the politicians never to send emails.  Many politicians never send emails just because emails are not safe and can be intercepted.    Plus like I say apparently he can't hold his arms in front of him because of his arms being pulled out of his shoulder sockets during the POW days.  From what I have heard is wife sometimes will write the emails for him.
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            • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 1:17 pm ET)
                 
              Pardon me. If McCain were not a Republican, the right would skewer him for not taking personal responsibility and giving in to his disabilities. Bless his heart, but don't give me that POW stuff is a hinderance to his ability to learn about technology.

              And for Pete's sake, dude. McCain predates the DHS and so does email. For him not to educate himself and get himself computer literate is an act of learned helplessness.
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              • Author by skettle2000 (September 16, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                   
                If Obama wants to win this election it is very simple what he has to do.  First thing is he has to come out and demand a congressional investigation into freddie mac and fannie mae and what kind of lobbying the supports of these two companies were doing to congress.  If he attacks people like Rangal and the Dodd and the corruption in congress he will win a lot of votes in the middle.  He has to distinguish himself from the far left and move more center.  
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                • Author by roundhouse (September 16, 2008 2:14 pm ET)
                     
                  Thanks for the advice. It's the same move to the center advice that doomed Gore and Kerry.

                  No, with the failures of Republican policy caving in all around us, there is absolutely no need to lend the least amount of legitimacy to that policy by moving to meet it in the middle. It's time to make the case for good ol' liberal principles of effective government, broad prosperity, mutual responsibility, smarter defense and better future. Dems need to argue forcefully against conservatism by championing market regulation, worker empowerment and universal healthcare.
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