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Limbaugh's guest host is latest radio host to compare current policies or proposals to slavery

November 17, 2008 9:32 am ET

While discussing potential Republican outreach efforts toward African-Americans, Jason Lewis stated on The Rush Limbaugh Show: "[T]his whole notion of taxing -- taxing America's labor -- you know, I don't know how else you describe what this sordid experience of slavery was when you take away somebody's ability to engage in the marketplace with the fruits of their labor." Lewis later added: "We need to go into the African-American community there on cultural issues. And they should be there on taxes, because they know what it's like to have to work for free."

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While discussing potential Republican outreach efforts toward African-Americans during the November 14 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show, guest host Jason Lewis stated: "[T]his whole notion of taxing -- taxing America's labor -- you know, I don't know how else you describe what this sordid experience of slavery was when you take away somebody's ability to engage in the marketplace with the fruits of their labor." Lewis later added: "We need to go into the African-American community there on cultural issues. And they should be there on taxes, because they know what it's like to have to work for free. And during the times of slavery, we targeted black folks. Well, now I guess it's OK to target wealthy folks. Either way, you're taking something that doesn't belong to you."

Lewis hosts a weekday radio show on Minnesota's 100.3 KTLK-FM, the same station that broadcasts The Chris Baker Show.

As Media Matters for America documented, on the November 6 broadcast of Clear Channel's The War Room, co-host Jim Quinn compared "slave[s] in the old South" to welfare recipients today, the "difference" being that "[t]he slave[s] had to work for" the benefits Quinn said they received. Quinn defended those comments on the November 7 broadcast of his radio show, saying, "Now, naturally, the point that I was making was that there are two forms of servitude: There's the servitude that you can be forced into, and there's the servitude you can be coerced into, I mean, the horrors of slavery notwithstanding -- naturally, that was my point."

Additionally, on the September 3 broadcast of San Francisco radio station KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, host Lee Rodgers said: "Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free. ... Free of the stifling stupidity of liberalism, which disguises slavery as benevolence. That's -- that's the program for the Obama campaign, by the way."

From the November 14 broadcast of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:

LEWIS: What was the party in control? During the Jim Crow era, what was the party in control? The Democrats.

CALLER: The Democrats.

LEWIS: Yeah.

CALLER: Nobody knows that, though, Jason. Nobody knows none of that history, particularly down here where I'm at. Nobody knows. They've been lying to them, man, for 40 years.

LEWIS: By the way, it's another great point you bring up. It's also very dangerous to rely on the Supreme Court and unelected judges, because it was the Supreme Court that upheld Plessy versus Ferguson in -- I think it was 1896 -- that said separate but equal is just fine, for 60 years. Well, what was the court made up of? I mean, you're right --

CALLER: Nobody knows that history, Jason. We -- I saw -- somebody was reading it off one of the morning shows or something, what all the Republicans have did as pertaining to that issue. And the Democrats --

LEWIS: I got you.

CALLER: -- ain't got nothing compared to that. So, we're talking --

LEWIS: Well, it might change. [Caller], I gotta go -- I gotta go, buddy. But it might change if former Lieutenant Governor Michael Steele, who has announced his candidacy for the position of chairman of the Republican National Committee -- conservative African-American -- becomes the head of the party. I know he's been wanting Republicans to go into the African-American community and saying that. And I would only add that this whole notion of taxing -- taxing America's labor -- you know, I don't know how else you describe what this sordid experience of slavery was when you take away somebody's ability to engage in the marketplace with the fruits of their labor. We fought a great war over that. And you're quite right. We lost 600,000 Americans, many of them white, by the way. This country repaired itself. This country repaired the damage it was done. Those are reparations -- 600,000 lives.

The bottom line, however, is, that we need to go into the African-American community as conservatives. It's a natural constituency. Seventy percent of African-Americans voted to uphold traditional marriage in California, and now they're seeing the intolerance of the militant gay left. We need to go into the African-American community there on cultural issues. And they should be there on taxes, because they know what it's like to have to work for free. And during the times of slavery, we targeted black folks. Well, now I guess it's OK to target wealthy folks. Either way, you're taking something that doesn't belong to you. Thanks for the call and the reminder.

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    • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 10:31 am ET)
         

      I'm not quite sure what the caller is talking about, that he's been lied to about the history of this country for all of these years, but he sure doesn't seem confused by Lewis' all-over-the-map rambling. Is it taxing labor or punishing the wealthy that he thinks is slavery, or is he just doing a marathon of belching out unrelated thoughts?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Victor Colorado (November 17, 2008 11:09 am ET)
           

        I'm not sure either.  But I bet Lewis storms out of his house once or twice a week chasing the garbage truck in nothing by a robe and slippers, shaking his fist and yelling, "Hey, that's mine!  That doesn't belong to you!"

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wolf kotenberg (November 17, 2008 11:29 am ET)
             

          As far as 'taxing " goes, how do they think nuclear carriers named after their beloved leaders Reagan and Bush was paid for ? And the rest of their military toys yet to be named ?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 11:35 am ET)
               

            I believe they think those aircraft carriers were purchased from the Indians (native Americans) with the scalps of lazy, unsuccessful (i.e. earning <$250k) citizens.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wolf kotenberg (November 17, 2008 11:39 am ET)
                 

              I thought they had some spare Iraqi oil around and sold it to China, or something.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by peebs755 (November 17, 2008 1:30 pm ET)
                   

                Don't you guys know that they just appear when we need them?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by eweston8542983 (November 17, 2008 4:50 pm ET)
                     

                  A theoretical aircraft carrier appears when its theoretical quantum state collapses. Trick but even better is how the crew appears in much the same way. The paper work and history adjusting to it is just a parlor trick today, but tomorrow...never nose.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by wolf kotenberg (November 17, 2008 10:12 pm ET)
                     

                  or create a need !!!

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by mary59 (November 17, 2008 12:55 pm ET)
             

          "But I bet Lewis storms out of his house once or twice a week chasing the garbage truck in nothing by a robe and slippers, shaking his fist and yelling, "Hey, that's mine!  That doesn't belong to you!"

          He must have caught up with the truck, 'cause he needed a truckload to conduct his radio program.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by historygeek001 (November 17, 2008 1:12 pm ET)
             

          I'm betting the "lying" the caller refers to is anything that he does not want to believe is true.  He reads or hears something, doesn't like it, and therefore dismisses it as "lies" because then he can pretend it is not true. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (November 17, 2008 3:59 pm ET)
               

            So your saying he's what... conservative? Republican?  From the Southeast?  A McCain voter?

            Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (November 17, 2008 12:23 pm ET)
           

        Notice the way the caller slyly suggested that because a lot of white people died during WW2 fighting for freedom that this country "healed itself"? This guy actually believes racism isn't an issue anymore because of that!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Brabantio (November 17, 2008 12:30 pm ET)
             

          I thought he was talking about the Civil War, myself.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (November 17, 2008 1:59 pm ET)
               

            Hmmm, you could be right, casualty wise I think that is the right war. But I still think this guy believes the deaths erased any debt to society. Too bad he doesn't know his history - today's democrats consist of most of the republican genre of the civil war era while today's republicans consist of the slaveholders!

            Report Abuse
    • Author by ultrasanktpauli (November 17, 2008 10:38 am ET)
         

      it's almost not evil. it just doesn't make sense. maybe if i were to listen, if i would just keep nodding my head...

      Report Abuse
    • Author by JLyons (November 17, 2008 10:42 am ET)
         
      Rush must be off on another drug run.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (November 17, 2008 10:43 am ET)
         
      In the immortal words of Frank Barone "Holy Crap!" Is this guy for real? What a seriously skewed and disingenius way to bring race baiting into the mix... How would any of todays blacks know anything about having to work for free? If anything, blacks today know all there is to know about being paid crappy wages for a hards days work... Many of them also know about being harrassed on their way to and from that low paying job by a certain segment of their fellow countrymen... as if being screwed out of a better salary was not bad enough. And a quick history lesson for Jason Lewis... the Democratic party back in the late 1800's is not the same one today... in fact... the roles of the GOP and the Dems had reversed completely back in the early days of the 1900's... Todays Republican party has basically taken the spirit of Lincoln and crapped all over it! It now makes perfect sense that Rush had this fool running the show... Hmmm..... I wonder what Rush was doing on his day off? Dominican Republic? Haiti? oh..... nevermind
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (November 17, 2008 10:50 am ET)
         
      I'm reminded of a dive Stimpy took (only for payola): The Folding Butter Knife, The Flailing Loony, and finally The 4 by4 Off Road Axle. Glad to see your still uncooked Col. Is hot down there!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 11:10 am ET)
           

        Hey, EW, I'm unscorched, sorry I can't say as much for some people a little inland from me. Aside from stinging eyeballs and smoky boogers from the Yorba Linda fire, I'm ok. It did look like a Martian sky when I went down to the beach on Saturday, all orange and weirdy.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by eweston8542983 (November 17, 2008 11:37 am ET)
             

          Maybe shrub could finally find his place in society as Shrub Control in California. On second thought, maybe not.

          Somehow having parts of SoCal having firestorms as annual events is unacceptable. Something that a local, state, and/or national leadership should be doing something to mitigate, maybe even find a clever way to find a resource in dealing with it. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 11:52 am ET)
               

            If we were able to stop the fires, we'd only have three seasons left, earthquake, mudslide and Santana hair dryer.

            Beside, we already have shrub control that's more qualified.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by eweston8542983 (November 17, 2008 1:13 pm ET)
                 

              Good idea, I think we've got similar programs up here.

              What we need! More well fed goats! And bunnies, and chickens, and cows,  and horsies. Maybe a muskox or two? Take your animal out to eat!

              Report Abuse
    • Author by Brabantio (November 17, 2008 10:59 am ET)
         

      What a bizarre commentary.  If taxes in general means the government is taking something that doesn't belong to them, then what is it when we use their roads, police, social security money, etc. etc.?  That would be using something that isn't ours.  What's the plan here, that poor people will have to fork over cash for the fire department to extinguish their burning house?  Am I misinterpreting this guy?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by BillJ-MN (November 17, 2008 11:06 am ET)
         
      I've listened to a few hundred hours of Lewis' show. He's an extreme libertarian (small "l") who wants absolute free markets. He even opposes anti-monopoly regulations.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by pete592 (November 17, 2008 11:07 am ET)
         

      A testimonial to how far the right-wing professional liars have to go in order to find something to talk about.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by nerzog (November 17, 2008 11:16 am ET)
         

      Typical Right Wing hysterics.  They're making a common mistake here, assuming that the Democratic party of Jim Crow has survived intact.

      Well, sorry to disappoint you, guys, but the Racist Dixiecrats who opposed the Civil Rights Act have mostly migrated to the Republican party, where they feel more at home.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 11:20 am ET)
           

        Sure, Nerz. Ya know why you believe that? Because they've been lying to you, man, for 40 years!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 12:53 pm ET)
             

          You know most slave owners had quite an affinity for their slaves...kind of like I do with my dog.  My dog is smart and a great campanion but without me she would pee and crap all over the place and of course she can't feed herself...so I take my hard earned time and money to care for her.  Without me she would die.  

          "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings.  The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery."

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 1:09 pm ET)
               

            Wow, EC, you're all over the place like Lewis. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but you seem to be making these points;

            -- Slavery was done out of love for the slaves

            -- Slaves are animals

            -- Slaves would die without slavery

            -- Misery is a blessing

            Interesting thoughts.My condolences to your dog.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 1:28 pm ET)
                 

              Yeah I'm all over the place.  My sarcastic point is that no adage is more appropriate for progressives than "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"...i.e. our housing crisis.  Progressives and quasi-conservatives hurt the very people they were meaning to help by creating policy with their hearts rather than logic.  Also, I can understand you being incapable of understanding my metaphor but not being able to truly understand the quote should probably just end our metaphysical discussion right there.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (November 17, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
                   

                considering we've had 8 years of hard right "logic" perhaps you can tell us what's left in the right wing bag of tricks to save the economy.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 2:12 pm ET)
                     

                  I would love to tell you but it would be hard because you are already coming from a place that is untrue.   8 years of hard right logic?  Bush's economic policies have been filled with fascistic tones as many progressive predecessors before him have been...go get yourself learnt and then will have the discussion of what classically liberal/conservative economic policies would do.  His tax cuts and the cut on capital gains was about the only conservative thing he has done and if you believe those have any bearing on the economic climate then there is nothing to discuss.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (November 17, 2008 2:37 pm ET)
                       

                    I would love to tell you but it would be hard because you are already coming from a place that is untrue.

                    So your untruths would only add to the pile that exists only in your own mind/

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 2:56 pm ET)
                         

                      Perfect, you're right we are easy to refute...thanks for the info and changing my mind.  Those facts you gave about President Bush being a hard right, econmically speaking, politician were eye opening.

                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 4:30 pm ET)
                       

                    So like, liberal economic policies like Clinton's that led to the greatest expansion of our economy, ever? Something like that? I mean, that's what we're really talking about here, since Obama wants to go back to the days of Clinton, in terms of taxes, and how they're applied to the population of our country.

                    What did the Bush tax cuts do? Nothing, except make the wealthy, MORE wealthy.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:43 pm ET)
                         

                      First of all Clinton did some very smart conservative things...like cut the capital gains tax which Obama, at least during his campaign, wants to increase.  Second you should study again the first 8 months of Bush's presidency which included some of the most politicaly conservative polices he did in his 8 years as president and how quickly the recession he inherted turned around.  Again i will provide more data but I have to get some work done as I said below....but I will get to it.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 5:27 pm ET)
                           

                        Yeah, but the first 8 months doesn't mean jack, after 8 years. It's not where you were, but where we ended up. Where is his economic wisdom now? This is the same guy who was telling us, right up until things started crashing down, that the economy was fine and dandy, and that it was strong.

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 5:57 pm ET)
                           

                        You are doing historical revision here.  Bush's first round of tax cuts were not aimed at curbing a recession.  In fact, his reasoning was that the government had too much of the people's money and it should be returned to them, instead of paying down the debt.  Later on, when the recession became apparent, he then went to the tax cut well again only this time claiming it was stimulus.

                        So folks, here's the takeaway:

                        Economy Good: Cons use economy as excuse to cut taxes for wealthy

                        Economy Bad: Cons use economy as excuse to cut taxes for wealthy

                        They have one answer for the economy and an answer that has been proven wrong many time over.

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (November 17, 2008 5:36 pm ET)
                       

                    So basically you got nuttin'. That's why y'all lost the election in a landslide, ya got nuttin' to offer.

                    Report Abuse
            • Author by worrierking (November 17, 2008 1:43 pm ET)
                 

              I agree with you about his dog.

              Dogs both wild and domesticated are capable of finding their own food and they don't go where they eat and sleep. Without him his dog would do just fine. I know mine would. I'm not saying they wouldn't miss me though.

              Are we to assume by his use of the slave dog analogy that he also beats his dog? Has sex with her? 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 1:49 pm ET)
                   

                Awesome point.  Really added to the discussion.  Do I have sex with my dog?  Well to answer your question simply. No. But there have been times when I know she wants it but I never let it get that far....lucky for her right?  Damn I forgot your point I was thinking about doing my dog.  Oh that's right you didn't have one.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 2:36 pm ET)
                     

                  Excellent point!  You get a +1 for being almost coherent.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (November 17, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
                     

                  It's a fine line between sarcasm and truth. EC has no idea where it is, so WRT his dog, in this case, he is completely truthful.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 2:43 pm ET)
                       

                    Yes, but at least EC is going to hell for taking care of his dog through socialism. 

                    After all, the dog has never done anything in return for all of the things EC provides, but there he is again each day, with his tongue hanging out, waiting for some scraps from his more successful and capable provider.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:00 pm ET)
                         

                      It's a she.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 3:49 pm ET)
                           

                        You?  Or the dog?

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:56 pm ET)
                             

                          The dog. I'm a he.  Her name is a Millie and she is German Wirehaired Pointer...amazing dog by the way.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 4:12 pm ET)
                               

                            Methinks EC is regularly trying to make one of those human-animal hybrids George Bush warned us about.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:44 pm ET)
                                 

                              Methinks you have nothing valuable to add to this debate so you say something stupid like that.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 5:57 pm ET)
                                   

                                Methinks you have no sense of humor.  In other words, you are a typical Con.

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by mrhebert74 (November 17, 2008 7:40 pm ET)
                                   

                                Debate? You're rambling incoherently and they are making fun of you. There's no debate.

                                Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 1:53 pm ET)
                   

                I'm not too sure, and it looks like he's put the kibosh on any further metaphysical discussion with me. I think Churchill said "virtue" , not "blessing", but maybe this stuff is way over my head.

                Anyway, I've got to go feed the teenage runaway I have chained in the attic. She'd be so lost without me.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 2:05 pm ET)
                     

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                  Really?  That is the best you got?  It's been printed both ways I like blessing, I can change it to virtue if you like.  Ok, so far I have got sex with my dog and a teenage runaway changed in Col. Sander’s attic...at least she's eating well who doesn't like KFC?  Can my dog and I come over for dinner?   Seriously, many slave owners saw their slaves as incapable of making it on their own.  Think of the plantation as a miniature government, oh it ran smoothly and all the slaves worked, had a roof over their head, and were fed...so violently socialistic.  Now metaphorically speaking the chains are mental but this time they willingly let rich white people put them on. 

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 2:18 pm ET)
                       

                    sorry about the above comment...I copied and pasted.  Haven't been here in awhile didn't know that caused that whole shebang.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (November 17, 2008 2:31 pm ET)
                         

                      That's ok, EC. Comments like that obviously need to go through several rough drafts and a lot of fine tuning in other programs.

                      Now quit promising to end discussions if you're going to continue them.It gets peoples' hoopes up.

                      If you do continue with your contributions, I'll warn you of a pitfall that many conservative posters have trouble with;

                      If you're going to do "sarcasm", you'll want to state some positions that you don't actually believe, sort of the "opposite" of your true thoughts.

                       Once in the "sarcastic mode" maintain these positions without fluctuating back and forth between the two sides, especially if your ideas are nutty enough that it's hard to determine the sarcastic parts from the straight parts.

                      Good luck!

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 2:47 pm ET)
                           

                        Ok...then to be completely clear my dog is not my sex slave, in case that got lost in translation.  Sorry you guys have a hard time with that.  I assume it's safe to say you don't have a teenage runaway chained in your attic?  I also assumed you are not the real Col. Sanders...is that true.  It's always easier to call ideas nutty than refute them.  Good job...keep making delicous chicken!!!  Why are there still so many gehttos black or otherwise?  If conservatives need rich white voters do progressives need poor black voters? Why do conservatives get called fascist when we want business to be more private and progressives want the government to have more hands on business...explain that one to me.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 2:52 pm ET)
                             

                          Why are there still so many gehttos black or otherwise?  If conservatives need rich white voters do progressives need poor black voters? Why do conservatives get called fascist when we want business to be more private and progressives want the government to have more hands on business...explain that one to me.

                          Who are you arguing with?  Or are these just rhetorical questions?  Did somebody call you a fascist and hurt your feewings?  I thought conservatives had tougher skin.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:01 pm ET)
                               

                            I'm trying to actually have true debates and get away from me having sex with my dog.  Haha...sorry we can go back to that if wish.

                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 2:59 pm ET)
                             

                          Actually, I will give this a shot:

                          Why are there still so many gehttos black or otherwise? 

                          Why is white-collar crime still rampant in this country?

                          If conservatives need rich white voters do progressives need poor black voters?

                          Conservatives don't need rich white voters, depending on your def'n of rich, they are not a large voting bloc.  Conservatives need religious fundamentalist voters.

                          Why do conservatives get called fascist when we want business to be more private and progressives want the government to have more hands on business...explain that one to me.

                          I will explain this to you if you can explain why liberals get called communist when they want to reduce the tax burden on hard-working teachers, firefighters, police officers, construction workers, garbagemen, plumbers, etc.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:14 pm ET)
                               

                            I would say the answer to your first question, which was an answer to my first question, would be that their are bad people in the world...or I could just answer it with another question: Why are their still people on this thread talking about me having sex with my dog?

                            As far as your question regarding being called a communist, I have yet to call any of my liberal friends communist but I would consider them to have socialist tendancies and you only have to ask a Marxist for what comes next.  Plus through history fascists and communists had very similiar goals...they were mainly fighting to win the hearts and minds of the proleteariat and their philophies bare some strong resemblences to each other.  The religion of the state and the breakdown of private ownership and the indvidual for the god state...very communist, very fascist, very progressive.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:29 pm ET)
                                 

                              Sorry I should really use spell check....I'm at work trying to do this and work at the same time.  My apologies please forgive

                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 17, 2008 3:53 pm ET)
                                 

                              I would say the answer to your first question, which was an answer to my first question, would be that their are bad people in the world

                              This is also an answer to your last question, about keeping businesses more private.  The government needs to regulate private institutions so that these 'bad people' don't harm others through unfair competition, cooking the books, etc.  This is especially true for publicly traded private companies, where the general public assumes part of the capital risk in exchange for a portion of the earnings.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:27 pm ET)
                                   

                                I agree with you to a certain extent...people who do stuff like that should be brought to justice using the full extent of the law but it can still be done without too much government involvement .  Enron was how many years ago?  Since then more government regulations have just made it harder for business to do business yet as we can tell cooking the books still goes on, ask Franklin Raines of Fannie Mae.  As a side note in 2005 four Repugs tried to help if not save the mortgagee crisis by installing more regulations.  One of those people lost the presidential election and two lost their senatorial jobs.  You can guess who the people where who voted against it because most likely you support them.  I included it just in case you didn't believe me.

                                http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN00190:@@@P

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 5:29 pm ET)
                                     

                                  You do remember who controlled the Senate at the time of the vote you're talking about right? Republicans...

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by cArn (November 17, 2008 5:40 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Yep.

                                    It's true that key Democrats opposed the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have established a single, independent regulatory body with jurisdiction over Fannie and Freddie – a move that the Government Accountability Office had recommended in a 2004 report. Current House Banking Committee chairman Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts opposed legislation to reorganize oversight in 2000 (when Clinton was still president), 2003 and 2004, saying of the 2000 legislation that concern about Fannie and Freddie was "overblown." Just last summer, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd called a Bush proposal for an independent agency to regulate the two entities "ill-advised."

                                    But saying that Democrats killed the 2005 bill "while Mr. Obama was notably silent"  oversimplifies things considerably. The bill made it out of committee in the Senate but was never brought up for consideration. At that time, Republicans had a majority in the Senate and controlled the agenda. Democrats never got the chance to vote against it or to mount a filibuster to block it.

                                    By the time McCain signed on to the legislation, it was too late to prevent the crisis anyway. McCain added his name on May 25, 2006, when the housing bubble had already nearly peaked. Standard & Poor's Case-Schiller Home Price Index, which measures residential housing prices in 20 metropolitan regions and then constructs a composite index for the entire United States, shows that housing prices began falling in July 2006, barely two months later.

                                    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html

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                            • Author by christopher howard (November 18, 2008 10:22 am ET)
                                 

                              "Plus through history fascists and communists had very similiar goals...they were mainly fighting to win the hearts and minds of the proleteariat and their philophies bare some strong resemblences to each other.  The religion of the state and the breakdown of private ownership and the indvidual for the god state...very communist, very fascist, very progressive."

                              EC: Fascism, whether in fascist Italy or Nazi Germany, were conceived largely in opposition to communism and ultimately allied themselves with traditionalist-conservative forces, whether in business the military or religion to edge out leftist forces (in Germany most notably the communists or the Social Democrats). In its rise to power, the Nazi movement was more concerned with winning the hearts and minds of the traditional elites, the middle class (bourgeoisie) and landed farmers than those of the proletariat. Of course once in power they demanded at least qiesence from everyone.

                              Certainly one can find many similarities between communism and fascism, especially in the sense that both were authoritarian (though at least in theory Marxism was not inherently so, unlike fascism which is authoritarian at its root). In contrast to communism, private enterprise was largely preserved in Nazi Germany as long as one wasn't an enemy of the state (mostly Jews or leftists), though Hitler did push big business in the direction of rearmament. Since you have conflated American progressivism with fascism because it is willing to utilize the power of the government, I assume you are defining conservatism as, what, purely libertarian? If so, you may wish to further your research. Conservatives are more than willing to use the power of the state to push their own agenda (as they prove every time they take power).

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                        • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 4:22 pm ET)
                             

                          Why are there still ghettos black or otherwise?

                          Because for a large part, the black community has been kept down in this country, and only in recent history have had a chance to have their voices heard (as in, you know, getting to vote). Most black people who live in the United States came from a background of slavery couple that with not having a voice in the government (1 black Senator out of 100, and now, zero out of a 100), and you have your voices not being heard. Also, the hard core institutionalized racism that existed, and exists in this country, and it's easy to see why the black, and other minorities that exist in this country, are disenfranchised, and have a harder time than say, a white guy like myself.

                          If conservatives need rich white voters do progressives need poor black voters?

                          As someone else said, conservatives don't need rich white voters, they need evangelical voters to win. Why do progressives need poor black voters? We don't need poor black voters, but increasingly, the progressive party, or the democrats, represent what poor people in general need to exist, and spend more time working on the issues of the poor. Take for instance, John Edwards. Say what you will about his personal life, but he has spent a lifetime trying to help the poor around the country.

                          Why do conservatives get called fascist when we want business to be more private and progressives want the government to have more hands on business?

                          Progressives want regulations in place so we don't have the issues that we've seen as of late with Wall Street, the Housing market, and other such regulation free industries (or industries where regulation has been reduced as well as oversight), and so that the so called "free" market doesn't run amok, as it has. We don't want the government to have more hands on in private businesses, but we don't want our businesses to be run appropriately, and responsibly, and businesses have proven that left to their ownself, they can't be trusted to do that, and hence, government regulation. We don't call conservatives fascists (not that I normally use that word myself) because of their stance on business, we call them that for their stance on you know, civil liberties, and their ignoring of the Constitution, such as George W. Bush has done during his terms in office. It's not about your business approach, it's about your approach to ignoring the laws of the land.

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                          • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:36 pm ET)
                               

                            Magnolia I'm not ignoring you I will respond but I will do it at home tonight.  I have to get some work done homies.   Appreciate the debate ya'll.  Ya'll is us southern racists way of saying you all.

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                            • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 4:44 pm ET)
                                 

                              I live in the South, and very well understand the racism inherent in the South. I see it all around me. At work. At play. And in the community that I live in.

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                              • Author by mary59 (November 18, 2008 9:27 am ET)
                                   

                                Thanks Mag & others.  It's Tuesday now and I hope weevil con will read your responses carefully.  The problems we have involve politicians in the pockets of multi-national corporate elites.  Their actions speak so loudly that we should not be listening to a word that they're saying.

                                In this round, it's been the Republicans, who've been in control of all three branches of government from 2000 to 2006, and still have obstructionist power.

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      • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 12:52 pm ET)
           

        Not mostly. They ALL moved over to the republican party, and started their own for a little while. The only reason they were democrats to start with, was because Lincoln was a republican, and he freed the slaves, beat down the South during the Civil War, and other things like that.

        Times, they have a changed. And what is this guy talking about nobody ever mentions that the southern Democrats were for Jim Crow laws? We hear about it ALL THE TIME from schmucks like Lewis, who try to pawn off their own racist tendencies and ideas as if it is something that democrats are doing as well, or did. How many times have we heard about how Senator Byrd used to be a KKK member? Countless...

        Other than that though, this guy's diatribe was far reaching, and I had a hard time following what the heck he was talking about really. I mean, talk about disjointed. It reminded me of the answer that Palin gave about the economy, that started on the economy, and ended up on health care reform. Organize your thoughts before speaking man. Jeesh...

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    • Author by webprogrammer (November 17, 2008 2:43 pm ET)
         
      It's interesting that once Republicans have screwed everything up so completely that now they have to watch their worst nightmare of a black man ascending to the White House unfold before their eyes, NOW it's time to reach out to African-Americans. Here's some advice. If a Republican reaches out to you, count your kidneys. He's after something, and if he's reaching out to you, it's because he thinks you've got it. A "compassionate conservative" is one who actually feels SORRY for your family while he steals your money, beats your wife, kicks your kids and rapes your dog.
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      • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 3:18 pm ET)
           

        Haha...do you get shocked when you touch something else after typing with your tinfoil hat on?  What is your proof that its because he's black?  More accurately we are scared of people like you...it just so happens he is black.

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        • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 4:14 pm ET)
             

          All one has to do is look at the map that shows which counties voted more for Kerry than for Obama.  The only place this was true was a swath right in the heart of the old South, where racism is still common.

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          • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:33 pm ET)
               

            Ok so that means lliberals/democrats are racist.   I was reffering to his assertion that it was conservatives, or republicans which I'm not, worst nightmare for a black man to be president.  Try again.

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            • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 6:00 pm ET)
                 

              No.  It means that racism prevented folks from voting for Obama because he was black.  If it weren't for his race, he would have won by an even greater lanslide.

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        • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 4:33 pm ET)
             

          Hmm, let's see, large scale increases in the traffic on white supremacists websites after the election. Large scale new recruits joining white supremacy groups immediately after the election. The Southern Poverty Law Center noting greatly increased traffic and "noise" in association with hate groups around the country. Yeah, I'm sure that this has nothing to do with a black man being elected president. Wake up and smell the racism.

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          • Author by Evil Conservative (November 17, 2008 4:55 pm ET)
               

            Again I am asking for proof of the reason republicans worst nightmare is a black man as president.  I don't need proof of racism I'm not an idiot.  Left that door open for you guys.  So far I have gotten less democrats voted for a black man and more crazies joining groups that have no affilation with the republican party.  Great proof.

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            • Author by magnolialover (November 17, 2008 5:50 pm ET)
                 

              Do you honestly think that members of white supremacist groups voted democrat, or ever did in the recent history for the United States (as in the last 40 years)? I'm not saying that they have an affiliation with the republican party, but let's just say, David Duke was a republican.

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            • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (November 17, 2008 6:03 pm ET)
                 

              Not only Democrats voted for Obama.  In most regions of the country, most people consider themselves independents.  These independents voted less for Obama than Kerry only in the deep South.

              The Republican party benefits from racism.  That's a fact.  With a capable, popular black president that racism attenuates and lessens the previously unquestionable support of the Republicans by racists.

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              • Author by nerzog (November 18, 2008 9:01 am ET)
                   

                Maybe our Evil friend needs to read up on Nixon's "Southern Strategy".  

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    • Author by coachslife3331 (November 17, 2008 3:18 pm ET)
         

      Typical conservative dribble!  No context whatsoever!  Those dixiecrats(former democrats from the South are now the heart and soul of the REPUBLICAN PARTY)

      The facts are....the % of actual racists in the U.S.  is VERY small; however, when a party has an unusual number of racists idiots....they are the problem! 

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    • Author by nerzog (November 18, 2008 9:09 am ET)
         

      Evil Knevil offhandedly referred to our current housing crisis as a result of Liberal "good intentions".  There may be a sliver of a point there, but it ignores the upside down pyramid of Wall Street greed that was built on top of those sub-prime mortgages.  

      Which "Liberal Good Intentions" compelled the Wall Street Robber Barons to slice up these mortgages into hundreds of slivers and repackage them into investment instruments which were sold and resold to the point that nobody can begin to untangle them?

      The Trickle Down apologists are clinging desperately to the absurd notion that their current mess is somehow Jimmy Carter's fault.  Who do they think they're kidding?

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      • Author by mary59 (November 18, 2008 9:30 am ET)
           

        Jimmy Carter??!  Why not blame George Washington?  How about James Buchanan or Calvin Coolidge?

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      • Author by steve52 (November 18, 2008 7:54 pm ET)
           

        Anyone who believes this is stupid. Anyone who claims it is true is a liar. We could have simply paid off all the defaulted mortgages for much less than we gave away to the banks.

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    • Author by jonesjax2374 (November 18, 2008 9:52 am ET)
         
      The new comedic phrase we'll see again and again is here as well, "The intolerant gay militants." LOL!!!!!
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    • Author by jrrrr (November 18, 2008 4:11 pm ET)
         

      Actually "black folks" don't know any more about slavery than "white folk." However, most "folks" presume that a simple minded observation of different skin colors is an omniscient source of information regarding the economic and political status of every single person living in America. Wonder where they got that stereotype driven perspective....Harvard, Princeton, the NYTimes...name any so called fount of "knowledge," today and they're spewing stereotypes, without any reference to individuality, whatsoever. 

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    • Author by steve52 (November 18, 2008 7:50 pm ET)
         

      I agree. We should tax wealth instead of labor. I'll bet Rush has a heart attack when he thinks this one through.

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