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Clayton Morris responds to false Nazi smear: "Hopefully the Speaker is listening this morning"

September 04, 2009 7:53 am ET

From the September 4 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:

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Previously:

After Pelosi noted that protesters had swastika signs, media claim she called them Nazis

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    • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 8:03 am ET)
      3 1
      Notice how the commentators run down the fact that many Congresspeople are presenting information slides before taking questions, as if informing people is a bad thing. Then notice how this woman takes to comments that were directed at certain protesters, who were carrying Nazi signs and who were organized by outside groups and turned that into a personal affront to herself and her dead uncle-in-law. Well, my late Father-in-law was a Jewish medic who hit the beaches of Normandy in the first wave and later went on to help liberate a death camp. I don't think he would appreciate people carrying signs that paint the President as a Nazi any more than I do. And sure as shootin', I do not appreciate being called a Nazi, Fascist, Communist, Progressive, either.
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      • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 04, 2009 8:44 am ET)
        4  
        What's wrong with "Progressive"?
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        • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 8:58 am ET)
          2  
          Nothing, except that Glenn is trying to make it into another insult. We have barely rehabilitated the word Liberal, so now they want to wreck Progressive, too.
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          • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 04, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
            1  
            So don't let them. We must not be timid about embracing these labels. We KNOW we're right, we KNOW that the majority agree with us on any given issue, we should not allow them to do this. If young blacks can completely imasculate the word 'n!gger', I'm sure we can take back 'liberal' and 'progressive' with both force and pride.

            The problem is that we never use 'conservative' as an epithet. We go for 'knuckledragger' or 'luddite' or 'flat-earther' and in doing so allow them to keep 'conservative' clean. They don't get so creative and thus 'liberal' becomes a smear. But 'conservative' should be a dirty word. It's a philosophy of embracing all that is backwards, all that has passed, all that has been thrown away by society because it was bad or didn't work. It is an embrace of the old over the new, sound bites instead of solutions, religion instead of science, fear instead of progress, and corporatism over individual liberty. What little good they have, they share with liberals, and indeed with all humanity. In all that seperates us, conservtaism is a intelletcually bankrupt and dead philosophy.

            So wear the twin badges of LIBERAL and PROGRESSIVE with PRIDE. If those are 'bad words' then so are INTELLIGENT, CRITICAL THINKER, EDUCATED, NOBEL PRIZE, etc...
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      • Author by jjamele2880 (September 04, 2009 9:00 am ET)
        5  
        So you lump "Progressive" in with "Nazi, Fascist, Communist" too? As if the people who brought us the five-day, forty-hour work week are equatable with the people who carried out the Holocaust? Seriously?
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        • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 9:10 am ET)
          3  
          I used to teach History. I am a great student of the Progressive Era, and as an Oregonian, I am very proud of the Progressive legacy. What I object to is having Progressive and Liberal turned into an insult and an instance excuse for a blow-off. I recognized that I was a Liberal back in Junior High when Nixon was President and my parents voted for him. And you try living with the Army for ten years and identify yourself as a Liberal. My point is that Conservatives have been calling me names and questioning my patriotism for years, but when Speaker Pelosi calls some of them on it, they all start whining about how they were insulted and offended.
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          • Author by kfraz43 (September 04, 2009 10:10 am ET)
            3  
            epkk, you hit upon an essential truth - a byproduct of the fact that conservatives ALWAYS win the message war. The word "conservative" sounds clean. It sounds reasonable and measured. "Liberal", on the other hand, has a tarnished edge to it - it sounds unfocused and radical. Forget the fact that the reality is the complete opposite... It's not unlike the polarizing connotations evoked by the words "black" and "white". Coincidence?
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            • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 10:35 am ET)
              6  
              My daughter, a Government major, loves to point out that Conservative is not an ideology. Conservatives merely try to conserve or maintain whatever the status quo is, which could be good or really bad, it all depends on the existing system. Currently, it means "I-have-mine, you-can't-have-it-and-I-don't-care-if-you-get-yours." Which is great for the haves, but not for the have-nots.
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          • Author by John Paradox (September 04, 2009 2:13 pm ET)
            1  
            As a writer and with BA in English Literature and Writing (though officially "Liberal Arts"), I have major problems with abuse of terms.
            'Conservative' should not be used for the wingnuts, Neoconservative or Neocon is more correct.. this is especially important to me with the recent references in the comments about Barry Goldwater as Conservative, but Rush Limbaugh as Neocon. This also extends into "Republican" as a synonym for 'Neocon'
            "Christian" for the Theocrats is another error, there are plenty of real Christians out there, volunteering (gasp!) and helping the Poor. I use as shorthand "Xian", or refer to them as Pauline Yahwists, as the usually quote Deuteronomy or the Epistles, but never the Gospels (the source information on the person who they claim to follow, Jesus)
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            • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 2:41 pm ET)
              1  
              Very interesting points you raise. I am leanring a lot about political terms from my daughter, the Government major, but we could all use more clearity in our descriptors. In many ways, having spent so much time around Jews, I might be called a Pauline Yahwist myself, because I tend to stress the shared links between my Catholic faith and my husband's Jewish faith. But I quote the Gospels, too. I like the parts about rendering unto Caesar and whatever you do to the least of my people. They remind me of my duties to the secular state and to be an example of charity (caritas).
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              • Author by John Paradox (September 04, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
                1  
                No, the Xian does not apply, because after all, Jesus said he was not going the change The Law. However, Paul changed the preaching from a Jewish sect to include Gentiles.
                A good book to read is The Mythmaker (I have a copy here SOMEwhere......aw, drat). It deals with how Paul was the actual creator of the Christian faith, and the disagreements between the Apostles (e.g. James, Jesus' brother) and Paul's extending [his version of]the teachings beyond Jews.
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                • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 3:52 pm ET)
                  1  
                  That's an interesting idea. I think I can agree with some of it, based on what I know about Christianity. I tend not to be very spiritual or mystical when it comes to faith. I would rather do something than talk about what it all means. I am very fond of Aristotle because he talks about the Right Rule. I can apply that and move on. My faith boils done to Micah 6:8 "And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." I don't always make the measure, but I know what to shoot for.
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                  • Author by John Paradox (September 04, 2009 9:26 pm ET)
                    1  
                    If you want to find out a lot about the Bible and where it came from, was edited,etc. ask an atheist.
                    Over on the Bad Astronomy (!?) blog, there are occasional threads when Creationists- excuse me, "Intelligent Design" advocates do something outrageous, and the people who give the most information about what's actually in the Bible are the former Theists, now Atheists.
                    I even did a post there one explaining why that is.
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                • Author by mikehuck1976 (September 05, 2009 10:59 am ET)
                  1  
                  Excellent points, John. Anyone who has bothered to study their own Christian religion at all understands that Paul (against the wishes of Jesus' brother) and Constantine did more to spread the Christian religion we know today than even Jesus himself. There were many religious leaders and icons at the time battling for supremacy (and most would agree that Mithra was winning) until Paul's marketing strategy to the Gentiles took hold. That led to Constantine who gave Christianity its first sanctioned power in any empire or state.
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                  • Author by epkklk851 (September 05, 2009 5:04 pm ET)
                    1  
                    Been there and done that, which is why I am not a Fundamentalist. I believe there is a God, we are His creation and we all see Him differently. I happen to love the tradition and ritual of the Catholic Church. It gives me comfort. However, I know these things don't work for others, so I accept what works for them, (short of preaching to me.) And yes, I admit to a paternalistic view of God, I think ultimately God is above gender and human form, but I would like to think of a great voice, like James Mason, or Richard Burton, or Alexander Scourby.
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    • Author by manofmystique (September 04, 2009 8:36 am ET)
      3  
      They will entertain anything these obviously jealous, envious, lying people say- and never really hold them accountable for it.
      If they did, not only would the "birthers" "deathers" and "tea baggers" look so stupid the first time around, but they would not give a platform to them again, and perhaps they would go away. Thanks to the media coverage we can expect these idiots back again.
      Exposing them as crackpots, racists and dangerous would have been the honorable thing to do, but this media will give a microphone to any white person, no matter how ridiculous he is and treat it like News. Look at the people who brought guns to the President town hall meetings. The media gave THEM air-time and told US about their right to carry a gun.
      Because of the stupid media keep putting these fools on the air and letting them off the hook more and more ridiculous people are coming out the wood-works. Like the nincompoops who claim Obama wants to indoctrinate school children.
      The media is also the reason Obama poll numbers are down. The media is driven by conservatives and Republicans likes Carl Roves, Dick Cheney, Sean [Kl]annity and people who has a vested interest in Obama's failure.
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    • Author by marco21 (September 04, 2009 11:02 am ET)
      2  
      She didn't call you losers astroturf Nazis, you wingnut fool.
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    • Author by The_Cat (September 04, 2009 11:17 am ET)
      3  
      "Nancy Pelosi needs to apologize to the American people for calling us astroturf Nazis..."

      Just like health reform, this woman is woefully misinformed. Speaker Pelosi did not call the American people 'astroturf Nazis'. In fact, I'm not aware that she used the word 'astroturf' at all that day. What she did say was that people were showing up with swastikas, clearly expecting that those listening would be bright enough to realize that protesters showing up with swastikas were trying to identify the object of their protest with the Nazis, rather than themselves. Pelosi didn't call anyone a Nazi. She correctly pointed out that some protesters were calling Obama and his proposed health reform Nazis, though.

      Sally Musto's ignorance is pitiful to behold.
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      • Author by epkklk851 (September 04, 2009 12:05 pm ET)
        2  
        Oh, but see, as Liberals we are supposed to accept being called nasty names, but if we point it out, well, we're calling names!
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        • Author by John Paradox (September 04, 2009 2:17 pm ET)
          2  
          Sticks and stone may break my bones,
          but names only hurt when used against Neocons,
          Liberals are supposed to just "suck it up",
          Like when you break your leg and your Insurance Company calls it a 'pre-existing condition' (you had that leg since you were born, right?)
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      • Author by WhatImlost (September 04, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
        3  
        I agree the person who called her an austroturf Nazi should applogize.....

        Mr. Limbaugh we are waiting
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      • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 04, 2009 3:48 pm ET)
        1  
        This is the rights new strategy:

        1) Call your opponents Nazi's.

        2) When your opponents call you out for it, act indignant: and claim that THEY'RE the ones calling YOU a Nazi.

        3) Rinse, Repeat.

        What's sad is that there's more than 3 or 4 people in this country who are either falling for it, or are dumb enough to think anyone else will. (Apparently there are about 59,934,814 who do. It's almost embarrassing.)
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    • Author by ProgLib (September 06, 2009 9:17 am ET)
      1  
      astroturf nazi? when the hell did nancy pelosi ever say the word nazi about anybody? astroturf, sure... we know that to be a fact pretty much about those townhalls and tea parties.

      and its ironic how this lady complains about the speaker of the house bringing up nazis, especially when there are people in the tea parties and town halls holding up signs with nazi symbols, and the stupid woman who invoked the "nazi policy" to barney frank. and you want to complain about a possibly false claim that pelosi said something she never said? and what the hell does abortion have to do with anything? these people really love to throw the kitchen sink in their complaints dont they? do they know anything about civility?
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