Olbermann takes on Beck's progressive-communist-fascist art history exposé
September 04, 2009 8:05 am ET
From the September 3 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:
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Palin's book and Obama's bow: a media week to forget
Media Matters: The Palin chronicles
The Friday Rush: A series of conflicts
Ep, are you really going to the 9/12 march?
isnt that how mrs. billo usually feels watchin fox news at 8 pm every night?
How brain dead do you have to be to buy into his paranoia?
Leave the mockery to Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert, they do a fine job in their own right.
yeah, that must be it... good call. its kind of a way to fill the void people feel from not watching those kind of skits from great comedians like stewart and colbert. this kind of behavior is not very typical from olbermann... especially back-to-back nights. regardless, it was very entertaining.
my dad thinks keith gives beck too much attention, like he has with billo and rush in years past.
The problem here is you fail to see any meaning behind the art work. Dont you think placement of art work in these VERY important and centrally located buildings would be meaningful in some way?
Glenn beck merely points things out- and it does NOT matter how much of a college education some one has. So everyone's intellectual merit is based on how many years of college they had?? really? you are an idiot if you dont have a degree?
Not everyone lives in New York city to have seen or know about this art work- so Beck is making the observation that its there. Good for you if you already knew about it. Not everyone does.
i guess you should have all the great works of Da Vinci destroyed since he did art commissioned by autocratic dukes
Beck's and your assumptions make Joe McCarthy and Father Coughlin seem reasonable by comparison.
The art work is there, no denying that fact. But to paint one of our most infamous "Robber Barons" as a patron of communism or socialism is so intellectually backwards that it can't be discussed intelligently regardless of how much or how little education someone has.
Beck is many things, but he's not good at connecting dots. His connections always lead to communist conspiracies.
Beck's contentions would be laughable, even in the 1950's.
You and your mentor Glenn should try to educate yourselves on the history of America and pay close attention to the Industrial Revolution and the communist scares of the fifties and where it led and what it cost this country.
'Course, Beck with his minimal intelligence and minimal educational background [one does not have to go to college to be intelligent . . . Beck is neither intelligent or educated] didn't realize that the studio where Fox is housed is PART of Rocker=feller Center or that one of the ArtDeco sculptures has been featured on a U.S.P.S. stamp.
Beck didn't care, he just wanted to stir up more hatred and anger at Obama so that people who already hate him would keep coming back to his program. He's gotta make MORE money. He doesn't tell he truth nor does he present facts, he just presents the stuff that YOU want to hear.
Here are the facts about Rockefeller Center: http://www.rockefellercenter.com/index.php/section/4
The piece Beck was pointing out was, purportedly, of Mussolini. So, if anything, that would be fascist views. I don't know how involved the ultra-capitalist Rockefeller was in choosing the art in his buildings but it is dubious that he was pushing Communism.
"The problem here is you fail to see any meaning behind the art work. Dont you think placement of art work in these VERY important and centrally located buildings would be meaningful in some way?"
Sure. Art frequently has meaning. The heroic style that Beck was pointing too has been used by artists of a very wide array of political persuasions. None of which has anything to do with Obama, even though Beck was idiotically trying to link him to that artwork.
"Glenn beck merely points things out-"
Ha! Ha! Ha! Yeah, right. Beck never merely "asks questions" as he so often dishonestly claims. He is a standard-issue demagogue and everything he says should be viewed through that prism.
"...and it does NOT matter how much of a college education some one has. So everyone's intellectual merit is based on how many years of college they had?? really? you are an idiot if you dont have a degree?"
You are correct that someone without a degree can be intelligent and even well-educated (not that either describes the pseudo-intellectual Beck).
"Not everyone lives in New York city to have seen or know about this art work- so Beck is making the observation that its there. Good for you if you already knew about it. Not everyone does."
Beck wasn't merely "making the observation that its [sic] there." He was pointing to a piece of artwork and trying to make another one of his dishonest fascist = liberal = Obama comparisons. If one wants to learn about art history, one should take a class or crack a book, not take it from a Beck diatribe.
Thats just your opinion.
It seems to me that liberals simply hate Glenn Beck- he could say the sky is blue and liberals would find something wrong with that.
IF it is not simply hate then actually watch a Beck show and find one single FACT he has that is NOT a fact. Because its obvious that everyone who hates him has ONLY seen Olbermanns, Stewarts, and Colbert's short clips of his shows taken out of context. HOW can you make a real judgement about something you didnt watch in entirety???
Youve already got your "standard issue demagogue prism" anyway.
If you did your research you'd see all the background on the czars that Beck produces is indeed true. From the mouths and minds of the czars themselves- you cant refute things people actually say themselves and books they write them selves (John Holdren:Ecoscience)
If your ok with fascism/communism/socialism whatever you wanna call it- then ok. But alot of people arent.
Please explain to me the point of this Beck segment. Saying our president is indoctrinating our children is NOT a fact. All presidents have spoken to children. This is my 10th Pres. So I don't understand the dumbing down of news nor his purpose of continually calling our president a fascist etc. Hate mongering is all I hear from him. Tell me something positive he's said.
You could simply read the threads on this site, under Beck's name and better educate yourself.
It isnt Mussolini? It doesnt represent youth/engines of industry/ and mussolini?
Its not in Rockefeller center where most American see it but dont know what it is?
Rockefeller had nothing to do with it being there?
Rockefeller doesnt finance anything in the industrial complex or any social revolutions (womens lib)?
Van Jones wasnt in jail? he's not a black nationalist? He's not a 9/11 truther now working for the government?
The point that Fox News is IN the Rockefeller center is NOT the point. Its that there has been art supporting communism or fascism (which ever you want to call it) for so long and the average person doesnt know what it is. And why was that choice of art work put there? Maybe you can tell me.
Maybe that stuff is no big deal to you, but it bothers alot of people.
"It doesn't represent youth/engines of industry/ and mussolini?" No. Again, it is an opinion. An opinion cannot, by definition, be a 'fact'.
"Its not in Rockefeller center where most American see it but dont know what it is?" It -is- in Rockefeller center, of course. Most large buildings have a percentage of their budget set aside for ornamental artwork. Rockefeller center is no different in this regard. Do -most- Americans see it? No. Just like most Americans in New York City don't see homeless people. It's just part of the scenery.
"Rockefeller had nothing to do with it being there?" Only inasmuchas he paid for it. He didn't design the buildings, he didn't design or execute the artwork.
"Rockefeller doesn't finance anything in the industrial complex or any social revolutions (womens lib)?" Well, you've strayed a bit off topic. If you have a link to a story about Rockefeller being the funding behind women's liberation, I'd love to read it. Link please?
"Van Jones wasn't in jail? He's not a 9/11 truther now working for the government?" I don't know. What does this have to do with artwork on a building in Rockefeller center?
"Its that there has been art supportingi communism or fascism (which ever you want to call it) for so long and the average person doesnt know what it is. And why was that choice of art work put there? Maybe you can tell me." Your point about the artwork supporting an -ism is premised entirely on Mr. Beck's interpretation of what the symbols contained within that artwork supposedly mean. Remember when I said opinion by its definition cannot be fact? You've fallen into this trap. There are at least a thousand other explanations of those symbols, all equally valid.
Why was that choice of artwork put there? Well, because of the age of the building, one very popular style at the time was Art Deco. These friezes reflect that style. I'm sure the architect was simply following current trends, as they tend to do. Did it have some deep symbolic inbuilt support for communism or fascism (don't let the fact that these two philosophies are diametrically opposed stop you from believing they're the same thing!)? No. But, just for fun, let's say it did. It was there during the eight years of Reagan, and the twelve years of Bush I & II. Where was the outrage against the commies then? It was even there while we were fighting fascists in Italy during WW II. Surely -they- would've noticed, don't you think?
The truth is, Glenn Beck knows as much about art history and criticism as he does about politics or health coverage reform: absolutely nothing.
Among the domestic achievements of Mussolini from the years 1924–1939 were: his public works programmes such as the taming of the Pontine Marshes, the improvement of job opportunities, and public transport. Mussolini also solved the Roman Question by concluding the Lateran Treaty between the Kingdom of Italy and the Holy See. He is also credited with securing economic success in Italy's colonies and commercial dependencies.[3]
Although he initially favoured siding with France against Germany in the early 1930s, Mussolini became one of the main figures of the Axis powers and, on 10 June 1940, Mussolini led Italy into World War II on the side of Axis.
communism or fascism (which ever you want to call it)
Mussolini was among the founders of Italian Fascism, which included elements of nationalism, corporatism, national syndicalism, expansionism, social progress and anti-communism in combination with censorship of subversives and state propaganda.
The problem here is you fail to see any meaning behind the art work. Dont you think placement of art work in these VERY important and centrally located buildings would be meaningful in some way?"
The POINT is that you clearly have no idea who Rockefeller was. You believe what Beck says about him being a progressive?? Look it up. Learn something for yourself. Regardless of what artist Rockefeller commissioned to do whatever artwork he wanted done, he was certainly no liberal and no progressive. You Beck admirers are completely divorced from reality and now seem to be on the verge of breaking up with history as well. By the way, you shouldn't need a college education to know that Rockefeller was no progressive. Simply the intellectual curiosity of your average 12-year old.
it would be funny if it wasnt so dangerous. the peasants with pitchforks think black velvet elvis is art.....
and the NEA is going to kill your children!!!!
get ready to rumble this month......
Maximilien Robespierre = George Washington. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Thanks, Beck.
Too bad, you didn't mentioned how the fasces was liberally sprinkled around symbols of our government. Now, if you want to illustrate how a symbol very closely related to Fascism is "hidden" on or in buildings, just start with the House Chamber in D.C. It's a wonder 'ol Becky-boy didn't see this.
Go to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
There are images in there showing what I am talking about.
Then, go near the bottom. There's an interesting stamp with this symbol.
See, the whole damn government is Fascist! :-)
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/wfb812/2009/04/more-proof-that-glenn-beck-is.php
Of course the fact that it is an ancient symbol, widely used before Mussolini adopted it around 1919-20, didn't slow dishonest Beck down one iota.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
symbols and things co opted from the romans and twisted by Hitler and Mussolini and now they are associated with only those people and regimes.
Arn't liberals supposed to love everyone? I see so much ahtred for Glenn beck
Keith Olberman is an IDIOT with a capital I. He had NO points at all in his rebuttal of this Beck clip...except his smirks. Fox news is ALSO in this building complex where the art work is?? soooooo ? so what.
Thats not the point.
The point is that Rockefeller likes communist art work and Rockefeller is the engine behind most industrial and societal works in this country. It was there before Obama was even born?? sooooo, thats irrelevent as well. Its not about Obama directly- its about being slowly pushed towards something other than capitalism for decades now.
Diego Rivera painted that mural. He was the Andy Warhol(in a fame sense) of his time when the Rockefellers commissioned him and an avowed communist. The Rockefellers wanted great art, by a great painter. Politics had nothing to do with their choice. When the mural was seen, still in progress mind you, they demanded he take it down. Rivera refused.(and why he then added old man Rockefeller to the painting as an "evil" element) The Rockefeller family had it draped with a sheet and eventually removed. That's why it doesn't stand in the lobby any more.
Beck is giving bits of not entirely accurate information to support a massive argument. That's the problem here. In his fevered conspiracy theory mind the pieces fit, but they fit because he wants them to fit.
Beck constantly says, "you ask the questions". I think that's great. I think everyone should, starting with any information that came from Glenn Beck as facts.
I will add though that thinking Beck's allegations are "wild" may be the problem with the whole political climate.
See I dont think its wild I think its very plausable- I dont automatically jump to call someone crazy because they present a new idea or theory.
While his allegations about the government may certainly not be true its still possible. All any of us can do is determine what we think makes sense. Given the latest actions by the Obama Administration it certainly seems things are being a kicked up a notch. As a country were not used to that.
It's not Glenn Beck the man that people hate. It's the cauldron of theories and "the hidden messages" that engender the hate. Guys like Beck, a conspiracy theorist and paranoid, have been around for ages. Ever heard the term "Snake Oil Salesman"? The latest has a national show on Fox.
(I need to re-read the Illuminati Trilogy)
Since you give such a glowing endorsement to Glenn's "questioning" of the government, I thought perhaps you'd have a much better understanding of what he's talking about when he says, "THEY."