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Buchanan calls Carter assertion that some attacks on Obama "based on racism" "malevolent and ignorant"

September 17, 2009 7:30 am ET

From the September 17 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:

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Previously:

Conservatives express outrage about charges that their attacks on Obama are racist

Pat Buchanan promotes 9/11 Truth column

After defending Hitler, Pat Buchanan again complains about Dr. Martin Luther King

MSNBC promoting Buchanan's Hitler column on its own website

MSNBC comments on its promotion -- and removal -- of Buchanan's Hitler defense

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    • Author by pros2pros2940 (September 17, 2009 7:31 am ET)
      8 1
      Of course, Pat, only a racist can call another a racist.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 17, 2009 9:46 am ET)
        4 2
        only a racist can call another a racist.
        Are you listening, Glenn Beck?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by wzwriter (September 17, 2009 11:01 am ET)
        2 1
        Of course, Pat, only a racist can call another a racist.

        Is that because only racists know the secret handshake?? :-)
        Report Abuse
    • Author by IRONY 101 (September 17, 2009 7:39 am ET)
      15 3
      As a life-long Southerner, Jimmy Carter knows what he's talking about here. People not from the South still don't get it. Go talk to "regular" white folks in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana and Tennessee when no one else is around and you'd be shocked to hear the things that come out of the mouths of such sweet, "decent", salt of the earth, Christians. But, unless they've ever been involved in a lynching, as some of their ancestors were, they don't consider themselves racists. It's classic delusional denial...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (September 17, 2009 7:55 am ET)
        9 2
        You're right, of course. The cacophony of denial from these pasty-faced Confederate Apologists is deafening.

        Someone did a documentary during the 2008 campaign, interviewing some of the people you're talking about, and the N-word was tossed around quite freely, as in, "I just cain't vote for no n*****!"

        Jimmy Carter struck a nerve among the Troglodytes by speaking an ugly truth, and he'll surely be ground up in the GOP Propaganda Machine for his efforts.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Brabantio (September 17, 2009 8:03 am ET)
          12  
          How can anyone possibly attack Carter for anything he says? What ever happened to free speech, as the term was defined for people like Joe Wilson, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 8:35 am ET)
            14 1
            In the minds of conservtaives, just as only minorites can be racists, only liberals can be hypocrites.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 9:28 am ET)
              10  
              Exactly! They've made this point abundantly clear. Beck (and Limbaugh and Dobbs and Buchanan) assert that Obama is "racist" and has a "hatred" for white culture and to Beck, that's fine to say. But when President Carter asserts that he sees racism in much of the hate directed at President Obama, Beck (and Limbaugh and Dobbs and Buchanan) go into complete freak out mode. Beck honestly thinks the so-called racism he sees in President Obama trumps the racism President Carter sees in the Birthers. Amazing!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 9:55 am ET)
                2 2
                Hey, I'm curious... What do you think about my post, below, about Carter? I mean, the fact that I wish he hadn't said what he did and that (IMHO) his honesty may actually hurt Obama and help the con's here. What's your take?

                ---------------------------------------------------------
                Always curious to hear everyone's opinion
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 10:03 am ET)
                  5 2
                  I disagree with your post below, but understand what your getting at. It's never politically expedient to call out racism and President Carter may not have done President Obama any favors by doing so here. But I suspect that he is deeply troubled by the assemblage of Confederate Flags and Nazi symbols on display and he felt that he had to speak out about it.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 10:18 am ET)
                    3 1
                    As is his right as a citizen. And I don't blame him for how he feels about it. I agree with him 100%. So that's fine. But I also agree with Hillary Clinton: [PP] A [politician] can't always say exactly what they mean [or feel.] That was from the '08 campaign trail and she took a lot of flak for saying it (kind of violating her own rule perhaps?)and while cynical I think she was dead right. And this situation is, IMO, a great example of it: Carter probably did more harm than good. A CITIZEN should speak his mind. A PRESIDENT should DO something about [the problem.] And if speaking his mind inhibits him from ACTING, by alienting potential moderates, he's should play his cards a little closer, and speak more diplomatically.

                    Carter may not be the president anymore, but he should still understand this. (Assuming he ever did.) And thus he should understand that while Obama may appreciate the sentiment, I'm sure he doesn't appreciate the legitimacy Carter just gave to the opposition.

                    This is, I'm not sure Carter EVER understood that. I was only six when Reagan was elected, and the perceptions of even the most politically astute six-year-old are obviously still next to useless. So I don't KNOW. But everything I've read about him and the country/world of late '70's tells me that he was just TOO GOOD A MAN for the job. And politics is a dirty business.

                    Even HE admits that he makes a much better former President than he ever did a President. Based on the great deal he's accomplised since, and what happened when he was in office, that's pretty hard to deny.

                    -----------------------------------------------------
                    Looks like it's a good day for me to argue with liberals for a change! LOL
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 10:47 am ET)
                      3 1
                      I've never cared much for or concern myself with political posturing and I can't really get into your analysis on that front. I would be interested in knowing if you think there's ever been a time in our nation's history when it's been politically expedient to call out racism.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 11:18 am ET)
                        2 1
                        Intersting question. Honestly? I'm not sure.

                        But I guess, if calling [something] out causes moderate people to pull back, or sympathize with the opposition, then NO. Not if it can prevent you from doing something legislatively about [the problem, whether racism or otherwise.]

                        And I can't really think or any examples where fiery racial rhetioric would have helped matters any. Lincoln was very moderate on slavery in many of his campaign speeches and his inaugural address. I can't see the language of a fire-brand abolitionist helping him any, at the time.

                        Kennedy and Johnson did more than any president since Lincoln as far as racial justice and civil rights go, but beyond articulating their position on segregation, voting etc... (and Kennedy didn't even really do that very often) they didn't go around pointing fingers, and saying so-n-so is a bad person/racist or [people form this state] are bad/racists. And I would think, especially at the time, that this would have been particularly counterproductive.

                        LBJ lamented that he was "Losing the South for a generation" in signing the civil rights act. But I don't think he'd been any better served by addiding "because of all those racist bastards" to the end of that sentiment.

                        -----------------------------------------------
                        But it's hard to say, really.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 12:04 pm ET)
                          3 1
                          Good historical context. Thanks. As for today, I just can't help but think that the Washington Mall would have been empty this past 12th of September had a white man or woman been occupying the White House house. No Confederate Flags, no Birthers, no Swastikas.

                          I know EXACTLY where President Carter is coming from and I have no interest in shooting the messenger.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by neon desert (September 17, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
                            6 1
                            I enjoyed reading that discussion. Good points by both. The kind of discourse you can find only on a liberal site.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 12:20 pm ET)
                            1 1
                            You are absolutely right on all counts...

                            ...though I still say Carter's comments did (and will do) more harm than good. :)

                            -------------------------------------------------
                            I'll have to take this one up...

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 12:23 pm ET)
                              2 1
                              The above post ("right on all counts") was intended for Victor Co., but it applies to Neon as well!

                              -------------------------------------------------
                              There's strength in good, healthy debate.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
                                3  
                                Thanks, Eddie. The 'more harm than good' element will be hard to measure but we shall soon see how it plays out. I think we needed and old white dude to step up, and I'm glad he did. Cheers.
                                Report Abuse
                            • Author by slowtyper (September 17, 2009 1:09 pm ET)
                              3  
                              and you may well be right..but..racism always does harm..and needs to be exposed..and challenged whenever and wherever it shows it's ugly head.."political expediency" should play no part in that..as doing so allows racism to grow in the vacuum and silence of it's own bullpucky
                              Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 8:47 pm ET)
                    3  
                    Carter lost in '80 for being honest with the American people. I don't say this about current- or ex-politicians very often, but sometimes I wish Jimmy Carter wasn't so damned honest.
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by wzwriter (September 17, 2009 2:45 pm ET)
              2  
              In the minds of conservtaives, just as only minorites can be racists, only liberals can be hypocrites.

              And the First Amendment only applies to conservatives...
              Report Abuse
          • Author by fairliberal (September 17, 2009 9:33 am ET)
            2 6
            He didn't attack Carter, he merely expressed his opinion about Carter's statement.

            MMFA has not reported Carter's opinion accurately however, he did not use the word some , he used the word overwhelming.

            I wonder where carter was when dems were calling Bush a liar? I guess it was not so important to him them. Carter is a fool and the lack of support for his comments shows most agree with that.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 12:40 pm ET)
              2 2
              OMG. How often have me and fairliberal been this close in our sentiments?

              I (obviously) won't go quite as far as s/he does, and Buchanan's statement only proves my point: that the opposition will use this to their advantage. But I'm almost frightened that we're close enough to shake hands over the divide seperating us!

              -------------------------------------------------------------
              While I'm over here, and we're not bashing each other's heads in... It's nice to meet you, Fair!
              LOL
              Report Abuse
            • Author by slowtyper (September 17, 2009 1:11 pm ET)
              3  
              but bush was/is a liar..and if you do a little research you'll find that carter did address bush's lying..
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (September 17, 2009 6:02 pm ET)
              3  
              Oh, so "malevolent and ignorant" isn't an attack? I'll bear that in mind the next time conservatives whine about being held accountable for what they say.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by starkcr31 (September 17, 2009 3:38 pm ET)
              4
            When a public figure goes on national television and spews garbage and lies, he deserves to be scrutinized.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (September 17, 2009 6:00 pm ET)
              1  
              Then Beck doesn't have "free speech" as it's been defined by his defenders either.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (September 17, 2009 6:00 pm ET)
              2  
              Then Beck doesn't have "free speech" as it's been defined by his defenders either.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 8:52 pm ET)
                2  
                I think starky is talking about Buchanan, and supporting MMFA here.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by starkcr31 (September 17, 2009 10:23 pm ET)
                    2
                  I think Buchanan is an religious fanatic, yes, and should not be on television, but Carter is spewing garbage as well.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 11:26 pm ET)
                    3  
                    I think Buchanan is spewing garbage, but has the right as an American to be on TV if somebody wants to pay for his time.

                    I think Carter's words are honest, hard to argue with, and important.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by starkcr31 (September 18, 2009 10:24 am ET)
                        2
                      Fair enough, but Carter should not be saying on national television that criticism of Obama is "overwhelmingly" race-related. There's no basis for that.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 18, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
                        2  
                        I think a lot of this could have been avoided by not using that word. " a significant factor" or "very present" used in place of "overwhelmingly" would have probably still caused some phony outrage on the right, but would have been much easier to show as objective fact.

                        I agree with Carter's words, but the subjective nature of the word "overwhelmingly", especially to those who think in extremes (right wingers), probably aggravated the reaction.

                        Carter's a pretty smart guy, it may not be easy for him to talk at a Fox News level without being very self-conscious about his words. If he had dumbed it down a little, it would have been less of an issue.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by starkcr31 (September 18, 2009 2:08 pm ET)
                            1
                          If Carter was so smart, he probably wouldn't have been one of the (if not the) worse president in history. If you don't want people taking your words as extremes, you shouldn't use extreme verbiage. All people can do is take peoples' words as they are, nothing more.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 18, 2009 3:05 pm ET)
                            1  
                            All people can do is take peoples' words as they are, nothing more.


                            No, people can misinterpret words because of their own biases and limitations. You and several others have shown this over and over on this very topic.

                            There was nothing really extreme in Carters words, but the black & white thinkers who only see in extremes got confused.

                            Take some responsibility, you can't spend your entire life blaming people whose thoughts are more complex than yours for your inability to understand them.

                            I also don't take too seriously anybody trying to insult Carter's intelligence by calling him the "worse (sic) president in history"
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by starkcr31 (September 18, 2009 3:24 pm ET)
                                2
                              I guess the fact that Carter doubled the unemployment rate and caused a gasoline shortage means he was a great president. If that's the case, Obama is well on his way to being great as well.
                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by Conchobhar (September 18, 2009 1:41 pm ET)
                        2  
                        If my memory serves, and I saw it a couple of times, President Carter didn't use the word "overwhelmingly." He used the word "overwhelming," and was referring to the intensity of the antipathy. I interpreted his statement to mean that the most extreme statements, the ones filled with overwhelming anger, were motivated by racism.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by starkcr31 (September 18, 2009 2:09 pm ET)
                            2
                          Ok, fair enough, but I'd like a few examples of people making "overwhelming" racist comments about Obama. I haven't heard any myself.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Conchobhar (September 18, 2009 2:54 pm ET)
                            2  
                            Actually, it was "overwhelming anger," motivated by racism. I don't think you'll find any specific example overwhelming, but if you check Limbaugh's archives (you might start with "Barak, the Magic Negro), and Beck's, you'll find plenty of examples. You can go back to the campaign, and check Sarah Palins's rallies. What was Curious George doing there? There was also the Republican Congressman who called Obama "uppity."

                            Assuming that you are open-minded about this, and willing to confront uncomfortable facts, I'd suggest you read Leonard Zeskind's Blood and Politics.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 18, 2009 2:59 pm ET)
                              1  
                              Good luck, Con. My suggestion was that Carter may have to dumb down his language to avoid confusing a certain element of America, and a volunteer showed up to prove me right.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by starkcr31 (September 18, 2009 3:07 pm ET)
                                1
                              I admit that Rush is most likely a racist but I've never heard any racist comments from Beck and I have listened to his show quite a few times.
                              Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 8:46 am ET)
          4 3
          Jimmy Carter struck a nerve among the Troglodytes by speaking an ugly truth, and he'll surely be ground up in the GOP Propaganda Machine for his efforts.

          I agree with this statement 100%, but I still wish he hadn't.

          In doing so he's given a lot of ammo to the Conservatives complaining about how they can't criticise Obama without be accused of being racists. Regardless of their racial motivations, prior to this incident no prominent people were really calling them racists. But to have a former Democratic President like Carter do it... Well, it just plays right into their game. He's helped them out, rather a lot.

          This is one of the things that made Carter a lousy president - he's way TOO honest, and just doesn't have the deviousness needed to think like his opponents and plan his game three steps ahead accordingly. It may sound cynical, but he was way too good a man to ever be make decent president.

          The Con's might have been mosting lying before, about being called racists, or at a minumum exagerating the accusations. But at least they HAD to. Now they can point to a former President accusing them of it. He just letigimized their 'playing the vitcim' act. Obama was doing just fine without Carter's help, and he's in a worse position now because of it!

          So, as a liberal, a Democratic Voter and a huge Obama booster, I say: "Obama knew what he was doing, and was doing just fine, so STFU, Jimmy Carter!"

          ----------------------------------------------------------------
          That's my take anyway
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Marker (September 17, 2009 9:05 am ET)
            5 4
            This is one of the things that made Carter a lousy president - he's way TOO honest, and just doesn't have the deviousness needed to think like his opponents and plan his game three steps ahead accordingly. It may sound cynical, but he was way too good a man to ever be make decent president.

            Read what you write and THINK about what you wrote. Sorry, you post very assinine, and lets be clear, AN ASSININE LIBERAL.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bintx (September 17, 2009 9:22 am ET)
              6 2
              If you're going to use big words incorrectly, you should at least learn how to spell them. The word is asinine and it is an adjective, not an adverb.

              NGE's post was actually pretty on the mark. Jimmy Carter is way too honest to be effective in our government as it stands today.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 9:26 am ET)
                6 2
                Or, as it stood when he was President.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by neon desert (September 17, 2009 9:50 am ET)
                6 1
                I have to disagree with you, bintx. I think the best advice would be for Marker to avoid using any big words at all. History has shown that complex thought eludes those such as Marker, and therefore such complex words often describe complex things which lie beyond the reach of their intellect. No good can come of this...
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Marker (September 17, 2009 4:22 pm ET)
                  1
                Spell check policeman. Why do people like you bitch when politicians act dishonestly and then Carter tries to be honest and that's a no-go.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 9:42 am ET)
              4 1
              You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but perhaps you could give a little more detail? I could be totally wrong here... It does happen occasionally. But I'm curious to hear what you think I'm so off the mark about. Please elaborate.

              -------------------------------------------------------------
              Didn't like Carter, Never voted for Clinton, still a Liberal
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Conchobhar (September 17, 2009 11:56 am ET)
            5  
            "...he's given a lot of ammo to the Conservatives complaining about how they can't criticise Obama without be accused of being racists."

            Couldn't disagree more, young whippersnapper. Whenever they're called out for obvious racism, the Right accuses the accuser of "playing the race card," and casts itself as the victim. They do the same thing with the "liberal media" canard. This has been a conservative tactic for 150 years, if not longer, and it's proved dangerously effective. It is one of the reasons that the Confederacy, while it lost the Civil War, actually won the peace, ushering in a hundred years of state-sponsored terrorism in the American South. [url=http://www.budiansky.com/home.html]See The Bloody Shirt, by Stephen Budiansky, if you can stomach it. It took me two months to read it, a few pages at a time. To much in one sitting and I'd have had a stroke. I also recommend BLOOD AND POLITICS; The History of the White Nationalist Movement, from the Margins to the Mainstream, by Leonard Zeskin, to see where we might be headed.

            The mistake we liberals make is to think that conservatives actually value the freedom that they tout. They, in the main, don't. They value freedom for themselves. The conservative Prime Minister, Disraeli, put it perfectly: "I don't give a fig for the Rights of Man; I'm interested in the Rights of Englishmen." Unfortunately, one of those "Rights" was seen as the right to rule other nations and races. Not much has changed in conservative thinking. The Becks, Buchanans, Limbaughs, etc., think that they have the right to rule, and that the 2008 election overturned the natural order. There's little they won't do to regain power, and we cannot allow them an inch's space in which to "Luntzify" our language and intimidate us from calling them out for what they are.

            Sorry, the link didn't work, and I don't have time to go back and fix it.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Conchobhar (September 17, 2009 12:06 pm ET)
              1  
              Lousy job of proof reading. "Too much in one sitting."
              Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 1:11 pm ET)
              1 1
              Good stuff. Maybe I'll need to go check those books.

              And again, I'm 100% with you throughout. I don't deny any of it. The right has always been willing to lie, smear, play the victim, be the hyopcrite, whatever it takes, whenever it suits them. I don't deny it at all. (In fact, in any other discussion, I'd be MAKING those points!)

              There was a great column here a few weeks back (apologies that I can't find it now.) I think it was one of J.Foser's but I could be wrong. The point that stands out in my memory was meant as an answer to those who would say that [PP] "Al Gore should have phrased his 'took the initiative in creating the internet' quote a little better, so that it wouldn't have been turned into 'I invented the internet' by the Right." The point was, that if your opponents are willing to LIE and blatantly MISQUOTE you, then it really doesn't matter WHAT you say or HOW you say it - they'll just LIE anyway, if they have to.

              Now... here's how that's relevant here: I'll grant that, with or without Carter's comments, the right will ABSOLUTELY continue to cry victim, saying they can't speak openly about POLICY becasue they'll be (falsely) accused of racism by the left. So at the end of the day, since the Right will behave the same way so who cares about any 'damage' President Carter may have done, correct?

              The problem is that they now have actual material, right out of a Democratic Icon's mouth, to back up their b*llsh!t. At least before, they were ACTUALLY LYING. And that's important because of the MODERATES. I don't think that a significant number of moderates were really being swayed by the 'victim' act the Rigth was playing on race. (Only the ones who are already racist themselves!) But NOW... NOW that they can piece together a video with a recognizable, prominent democrat ACCUSING them... (And not a particularly popular or sympathetic one at that, outside the party's base anyway!) A lot more moderates might then start giving credence to the Right's 'victim act.' And THEN...

              The right have won. Because now they've silenced thier critics, JUST LIKE THEY DID by saying "liberal media" over and over a million times for three decades. Just like 'liberal media,' "We're being called racists!" is a total red herring, (and total b*llsh!t.) And before Carter opened his big mouth, I'll bet most moderate people realised this. The Right had NO PROOF that anyone was calling them racists, so the victim act had no traction. Now that we'll all have to do damage control over this "racism" nonsense (from both sides) we can no logner debate the ISSUES.

              And that's exactly what [the right] want! Distract the public from the real issues! Becasue they know they can't win on the issues! But they can win on b*llsh!t! They've only ever won on b*llsh!t! And Carter just delivered them a whole truck-load of rhetorical fertilizer!

              -------------------------------------------------------------
              I certianly HOPE I'm wrong... but that's usually when I'm right most often!
              Report Abuse
        • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 9:12 am ET)
            10
          Why don't we apply the same standard as Color of Change did to Glenn Beck? HBeck has to prove Obama is a racist. Carter needs to prove these people are against Obama because of his race, not his policies. I live in the deep South. I know what racism is, and let me tell it comes from more than just one race. Those from the outside tend to ignore this point. It is wrong on both sides, and we should hold both to the same standard.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Victor Colorado (September 17, 2009 9:56 am ET)
            6  
            Beck will continue to fail to prove that President Obama is racist.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 10:05 am ET)
            1 1
            Beck has to prove Obama is a racist. Carter needs to prove these people are against Obama because of his race, not his policies.

            OK, I'm going to channel a five year old here for a second and say "BUT HE STARTED IT!"

            Now, why is that important?

            Follow me...

            1) Beck makes a statment: [PP] Obama's a racist.

            Burden is now on him to prove it. He can't, becasue it's b*llsh!t, so what motivatied him to say it? Obama's POLICIES? What policies of Obama's are RACIST? Expensive? Perhaps. COunter-Productive? You can debate that. Liberal? Unapologetically so. But RACIST? Where are the reparations? Where are the concentration camps? Where is the disproportionate representation of minorites and the systematic discrimination against whites? It just ain't there. And if you think it IS, show me why OBAMA is responsible for it. Affirmative action waaaay predates him as a policy.

            2) President Carter claims it's beacuse of race.

            OK, fine. He might need to back that up, but calls for proof on Carter's statement would carry a lot more weight if Beck (etc...) had EVER provided any proof of theirs. Carter may have failed to PROVE racism, fine, but none of the Beck crowd can DISPROVE it, and none can support THEIR ORIGINAL accusation of racsim on the part of Obama. That alone gives Carter way more evidence that Beck (etc...) ever had, let alone presented.

            So I'm satisfied that Carter was RIGHT. But I STILL say it was a real dumbass thing to say. (As I've stated above.)

            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Elementary Logic and the Burden of Proof
            Report Abuse
            • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 10:14 am ET)
                5
              The burden is always to prove something, not disprove it. Beck needs to prove Obama is a racist if he wants to make that claim. Carter needs to prove that anti-Obama sentiment is racist if he wants to make that claim. I assume we are talking legitimate anti-Obama sentiment, right? Not some crazy guy with a sign?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by foghornleghorn (September 17, 2009 1:07 pm ET)
                3  
                Not some crazy guy with a sign?

                You missed the point once again. It's not legitimate anti-Obama sentiment that's the problem, it's the paranoid delusional nutjob sentiment that is racist. Such as:

                50% of people in Kentucky (not a bastion of liberals) believe Obama is not a US citizen.

                33% of people in New Jersey believe or aren't sure if Obama is the anti-Christ.

                The racists have always been around. They've just been recently awakened now that the black man is in the White House.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 9:01 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Dead-on, Fog, and thanks. I'm about exhausted by this subject and the dining room tables who seem to be having so much trouble with it.

                  What I read from grunt was;

                  I challenge you to show me some anti-Obama person whose hatred is based more in racism than disagreement with the substance of Obama's policies.

                  But you can only use nice people who are talking about issues, no crazy racists.


                  Every day, I think I've seen it all.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
                1 1
                Well, no, actually you've got it completely backwards. You DISPROVE hypothesies. NOTHING is ever PROVEN. All you can do is try to provide enough EVIDENCE to support your hypotheiss so it will pass scurtiny, and be thus accepted. (Until it's disproven or a better one, with more support, comes along.) So DISPROVING something is trivially easy, if it's false. (It's pretty tough if it's TRUE though!) PROOVING something is nigh impossible, even if it's something everyone already accepts. So no. You must support your claims against attempts to DISPROVE them.

                Beck didn't do this. Not even close. (And thus Obama's supporters hardly NEED to DISproove it, since it's false-ness is pretty much self-evident.)

                So CARTER's hypothesis is that BECK (& co.) are racists. THAT'S why they made their statements. Can he prove it? No, but he doesn't have to. He just needs evidence. Does he have enough to withstand scrutiny? Based on the voices on the Right that I'VE heard so far, I'd say, "Yes, he does."

                Now... Can Beck DISPROOVE it? Sure. All he has to do is support ANY of his statements. Support why he thinks Obama is a racist, show some evidence that will withstand scrutiny. Show some evidence that he was ever accused of rasism just because he was arguing a policy point. Show that his position with Obama are consistant with positions he's held in the past. If he could justify his positions, the Carter would have to eat crow.

                But Beck can't, so Carter won't.

                ----------------------------------------------------------
                He was still a dumbass for saying it though!

                Regarding burden of proof, I refer you HERE
                Report Abuse
                • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 2:13 pm ET)
                     
                  You have to have evidence to make your hypothesis legitimate. You should also note that in science you cannot disprove something's existence. You can however prove something's existence. I think that is more the route we should take here.

                  Beck used experiences from Obama's past. His comments about his grandmother being a "typical white person." Did you forget about that?

                  What more evidence does Carter have than Beck? They both have past statements and relatinships they can look. Both are up to interpretation.

                  If Beck called Obama a typical black person would that be considered racist?
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by peace4all (September 17, 2009 10:27 am ET)
            5  
            beck never did prove that obama is a racist.
            that being said, carter has a point. if you look at the teaparties and town hall meeting and even back in the McCain campaign there were many references to obamas race. look at the pictures and listen to the comments. i would post the pictures but i am not smart enought to know how to post them here. now, i know not all people at these events are racist, but, by allowing those that are to associate with them them manage to paint themselves with the same broad brush. i am only applying the same standard that the right applys to president obama. by going to reverand wrights church and being on a panel with william ayers the right said that obama shared their views. if thats true then it's also true that by not speaking out against the racist at these protests then the non racist people are giveing validity to the racist claims.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 10:37 am ET)
            3  
            Grunt, there are plenty of items out there already (just peruse this site for a few minutes) that prove that some in opposition to Obama are in opposition because he's black, ie, racism. It's not that hard to prove.

            Earlier this year, we had the guy running for Chairman of the RNC send out copies of Barack the Magic Negro as a "joke". That was, and still is, racist.

            Earlier this year, we had a republican staffer sent out an e-mail to a vast list of people that pictured Obama in the dark and you could only see his eyes. Get it? He's black? You can't see him in the dark. If that's not racist, I'm not sure what is.

            We've also seen things sent around that show watermelons and fried chicken in the White House.

            We've had Limbaugh asking if we could still call it the White House now that Obama was there.

            And so on.

            The examples are far, and many of the racist opposition. This is not to say that all who oppose Obama's policies are racists, I don't believe that they are, but there are plenty of racists that oppose him, only for the color of his skin.

            Of course racism happens with more than one race, but it is still more prevalent as being a white against minority thing. Just take a gander at the Southern Poverty Law Center's website sometime. They do list various hate groups of different races, but it is still a majority white thing.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 10:54 am ET)
                4
              No one is saying racism doesn't exist. I am saying declaring opposition to Obama as racism needs to be proven. Why not say "crazy fringe" people are racist? Was there racism aimed towards Clarence Thomas? Yes! Was everyone who opposed Justice Thomas a racist? No! If you are going to declare racism it needs to be on a case by case basis, and not thrown at a group as a whole. It does the word INJUSTICE! I don't think any of us enjoy being called racist so we should be careful who we throw that word at.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 11:05 am ET)
                4
              "Barack the Magic Negro" if a parody of a column written by a columnist who called him the "Magic Negro". http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-opinion-center

              Could you supply the picture so that I can see it?

              The watermelons and fried chicken stereotype is also moved forward by many black comedians and commentators. Stereotypes are always wrong and can be racist. Again, I don't think an email represents an entire group in opposition, but rather a fringe of people who should be marginalized.

              The White House comment was a response to political correctness. If you don't get the joke, perhaps you should check your own racism at the door.

              I'm sure there are people who opposed Bush only because of the color of his skin after Hurricane Katrina. There are people who only support Obama because of the color of his skin. Does that represent the group as a whole? No, and both should be considered racism and those people should be marginalized.

              Hate groups are a majority white thing because whites are the majority. I think the math adds up.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 12:36 pm ET)
                2  
                Sure, it might have been a parody of a song, but guess what? It's still pretty darn racist. And the column was as well.

                TN Aide Sends racist e-mail

                See above link for a story about the aide that sent out the highly racist e-mail, it includes a picture.

                The White House comment had nothing to do with PC. Why would it NOT be called the White House? And seeing as it came from Limbaugh, a well known racist (Take the bone out of your nose and call me back - one of his more famous comments) it stands to reason it was racial in context.

                If you think supporting someone because the color of their skin is racist, then I'm pretty sure you don't really know what racism is. Are there black people in America that support Obama because he's black? Absolutely, and I would be naive to say that there aren't. Are they racists? No. No indeed, they are not.

                I can say people opposed Bush not because of the color of his skin after Katrina but because of the total ineptitude of his actions after Katrina. I'm pretty sure not too many people were concerned what color skin he had, when they were drowing, or struggling to survive.

                Hate groups, as I stated, are a white majority thing, and it's got nothing to do with being the majority, because that doesn't even make sense, mostly because if you're the majority, and hold almost all the strings to power in the country, and the WORLD (As white folks do still to this day), then what do you have to be angry about?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 2:02 pm ET)
                    1
                  The parody was mocking the racism coming from this columnist and people asking if Obama was "black enough." How does that reflect racism on Limbaugh's part? It was a reference to the double standard.

                  The White house comment was referencing black leaders who demand they be called African-Americans. If they can't be called black, would it be racist to call it white? Again, a joke that obviously flew way over your head. Again, mocking the OTHER side's racism.

                  Is it racist to not support someone because of the color of their skin? I clearly do know what racism is. Apparently you may not. If you ARE supporting someone because of the color of their skin, it means you AREN'T supporting someone else because of the color of their skin. That isn't racism? I would say you could indeed say they are.

                  Why didn't they go after Mayor Ray Nagin? He was as inept as anyone in the pre-hurricane situation and the aftermath that followed. Why was he not demonized by the black community? Why did Kanye West declare W didn't care about black people, but he never referenced Nagin?

                  I guess those people fear losing the power they think they have. That would be the logical explanation to me. The majority fearing losing that position.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 1:29 pm ET)
                2 1
                I don't think an email represents an entire group in opposition, but rather a fringe of people who should be marginalized.

                So... MARGINALIZE them already!

                -----------------------------------------------------------
                NGE
                Report Abuse
                • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 3:33 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Except for, when said e-mails come from mainstream republicans, it tends to NOT be on the margins.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 11:34 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Ha, NGEddie, I really like that you got a thumbs down for that. I'm trying to imagine who would disapprove of marginalizing the crazy fringe of the right wing. Somebody way right, or way left?
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by Conchobhar (September 17, 2009 12:18 pm ET)
            5  
            Compare the attacks on "HillaryCare" in the 90's, to those on "ObamaCare," today. While the right was disingenuous then, as now, at least they were attacking the program specifically, even though they really hated the Clintons. Now, in going after a program that is not as far reaching as the Clinton proposals, we see the end of civilization as we know it, and those in the streets are unabashed racists and, in the words of one, "proud right-wing terrorists." Well, gee. The Clintons were white, weren't they?

            When we are so "post-racial" that people like those who unabashedly proclaimed they'd "never vote for a n***r, are called out by their friends and neighbors, we can talk about "same standards."
            Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 8:05 am ET)
        11  
        Speaking from personal experience (grew up and went to school in Maine, moved to North Carolina about 10 years ago), when talking to a former co-worker of mine in North Carolina about the election last year, he was a Clinton supporter (this was during the primaries). We had a good talk about the candidates, and then, this guy who I had known for a good 6 months or so, who I knew was a deacon at his church, who had 3 great kids, and who had his master's degree from UNC told me, in no uncertain terms that if Obama won the nomination, there was no way he'd vote for that N*****!

        I was a little shocked, and taken aback, and asked why? He told me that no n***** should ever be President, it's just not right.

        I told him also that if I ever heard him use that term around me again, we'd have to go and speak to our HR manager about his inappropriateness. He never did, and he didn't really speak much to me after that.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by princeofwheels (September 17, 2009 8:13 am ET)
          7  
          MAGS, I'll bet you were popular around the cafeteria with some of uoyr fellow workers.
          If everyone would stand up like that, face-to-face and just tell these people not to use any type of derogatory comment about someone that RadioCreepers would be screaming that their 1st Amendment rights are being attacked.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 9:16 am ET)
              10
            That is not true. The word n****r is not thrown around like you guys make it out. Almost every time I hear that word used, someone speaks out about its inappropriateness. Again, I live in the deep South. That word is not acceptable even here.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 9:41 am ET)
              7  
              Well, the parts of the South that I've lived in, it was thrown around rather easily. Just my own personal experience.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by neon desert (September 17, 2009 9:55 am ET)
                6 1
                During my time in Baton Rouge, I never heard a black person referred to by any other term, unless they happened to be a personal friend.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Conchobhar (September 17, 2009 7:21 pm ET)
                  2  
                  My wife grew up in NOLA, couldn't wait to get out of the South, because of pervasive racism and sexism. Whenever we'd go down to visit she'd need to tranq me and censor her family. Her father never used "n***r," in my presence, but it was a form of hospitality and bigheartedness toward "the Yankee."

                  My favorite horrifying quote, "It ain't racist if you're white."
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 11:37 pm ET)
                  2  
                  ...I never heard a black person referred to by any other term, unless they happened to be a personal friend.

                  Or bigger than the speaker and within earshot.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 9:27 am ET)
            7  
            Yeah, actually most of the folks I worked with were actually not from NC, same as myself, and they tended to have a more liberal viewpoint of the world, so I just lost some "face" with the hardcore North Carolinians is all. And honestly, if they think like that, then I don't care to associate with them anyway.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by princeofwheels (September 17, 2009 8:09 am ET)
        7  
        An example of these people being out and out racists, I will use Jim Quinn on this mornings show during the first hour.
        Quinney who is a racist but is too cowardly to admit it. However his base listeners wear it as a badge of honor. On the show, he has always mentioned that you can't refer to anything because Liberals take it as racist.
        When discussing the Senators who voted against denying ACORN funding, he first mentions Sen.Casey, who said that he is not a Grand Jury, mutters some comment then goes onto Sen. Burris from Illinois. Of course, you know what is coming..Quinney the non-racist..shrugs this off by saying he is from Illinois and is BLACK.
        This is what a racist like Quinn doesn't seem to get. Where did he mention the skin color of any other Senator..but he made sure his Trailer-Republican base were aware that Burris is black.
        Quinney, you are infected with rascism, admit it and get help. Did you infect RadioRosie also?

        In the future, if an idiot like Quinney has his way, when identifying anyone, you would have to put their Political preference, their race, their religion etc., all inside the ( ).
        Quinn, can't you even be honest about you ignorance.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by blk-in-alabam (September 17, 2009 8:20 am ET)
        10  
        Cheney.Rove,Bush used 911 as a new republican southern strategy.They told people put your confederate flags down,use the American flag to mean the same thing on a larger scale.That is why these people feel cheated and want their country back.I have looked at the 9-12 people.I have looked at their signs and flags.I saw something missing from a group claiming to be America's most patriotic people.THERE WERE NO AMERICAN FLAGS.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 8:50 am ET)
          6 1
          Wow. I never thought about it quite that way, but I think you're really on to something there.

          ------------------------------------------------------------------
          My Blog
          Report Abuse
        • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 9:19 am ET)
            9
          Could it be because they don't want to wrap themselves in the flag? If they do they will be criticized for it. You guys can't have it both ways.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 9:49 am ET)
            6 1
            Um... It never stopped them before!

            We don't criticise flag-waving, we critcize flag-idolitry. For eight years these chickenhawk "patriots" called us traitors, and tried to treat the flag like it was some kind of sacred symbol. (The CONSTITUTION... not so much.) But the acted like it was THEIR flag, as opposed to ALL OF OUR flag.

            Now that they can't deny that the same flag, suddenly flying behind Obama, is in fact a symbol for EVERYONE, UNIFIED... Well, suddenly it just doesn't seem important.

            I see your point, but I think YOU'RE trying to have it both ways as well.

            ---------------------------------------------------------------
            My Blog
            Report Abuse
            • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 10:19 am ET)
                2
              I'm not supporting what these people did for the last few years. I am saying maybe they had a change of heart (probably not, but it is possible). I know that Glenn Beck personally said he didn't want to see people wrapping themselves in the flag, and he said he regretted that ever talking place. Just throwing some possibilities out there.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 12:40 pm ET)
                3  
                Funnily enough, they had a change of heart right about the time Obama won the election.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by peace4all (September 17, 2009 1:22 pm ET)
                3  
                glen beck also said that he hates the 9/11 victims families and that the healthcare in the U.S. would kill people. so i don't think using something beck says as an example is very wise really.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by neon desert (September 17, 2009 10:01 am ET)
            7 1
            I didn't realize there were only two (2) activities you could do with a flag: burn it or wrap yourself in it.

            Did you forget about decorating the back window of your truck with it, or painting it on the hood of your car?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 17, 2009 10:32 am ET)
              6  
              LOL. Or make it into a hat:
              [http://www.dannemann.org.uk/images/morans.jpg]
              Report Abuse
              • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 10:42 am ET)
                2  
                Which, if these guys were paying attention, is against the flag code, as in:

                (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.

                (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

                (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. (Disposal of Unserviceable Flags Ceremony)

                American Legion
                Report Abuse
        • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 9:29 am ET)
          5  
          There were most definitely plenty of American flags out there. Some were even literally wrapping themselves in it during their rally last week. Lots of American flag hats, shirts, bikinis, and so on.

          Although, I would say the American flag was far outnumbered by the "Don't Tread on Me" yellow flags that for some reason has become popular with the 9-12ers.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by overmars jr. (September 17, 2009 8:46 am ET)
        9  
        I lived in Georgia and Alabama for a combined, continuous 10 years. You are spot on. I would very often have complete strangers say the N word to me in public, many of them as if it was completely acceptable behavior and I would naturally respond in kind.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by worrierking (September 17, 2009 9:02 am ET)
          6  
          I've lived in PA, NJ, NY, VA and CT and have had the same thing happen to me from the early fifties until last week.

          It's not just the south.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mr. l (September 17, 2009 10:30 am ET)
            2  
            I lived in PA and AK and heard it all then time, unfortunately. I couldn't believe how many cops I knew used it all.. the... time!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MickD (September 17, 2009 10:51 am ET)
              3  
              I just had a ex-cop use it to my face, when for months he's known I used to volunteer in one of Chicago's most infamous housing projects, predominately African-Amercan. I like the guy, he's pragmatic, and was part of the "thin blue line," so all I said back to him was "remember where I'm coming from."
              Report Abuse
      • Author by ingramjr (September 17, 2009 11:22 pm ET)
           
        I'm from Louisiana and white and I can tell you "regular" white folk only have one word for black folk and that is "ni**er". I'm 67 and I've heard it all my life. If you are white the assumption is it is okay to call a black person a "ni**er". And they think Obama is a "ni**er" cause his daddy was black! Good enough for "regular" white folk!!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 8:01 am ET)
      3  
      Sounds like a guilty conscience there Patty Patty Buke Buke.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by msla56 (September 17, 2009 8:05 am ET)
      2  
      Pat it time for you to go away. You just make me sick. I am Tired of seeing your face or hearing your voice. GO AWAY; you are one of the racist that MSNBC pay to help keep the hate and fear going against this President
      Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (September 17, 2009 8:08 am ET)
      7  
      Buchanan calls Carter assertion that some attacks on Obama "based on racism" "malevolent and ignorant"

      I often wonder how people like Pat are able to live with themselves knowing the kind of person they are?

      While it might have been prudent for Jimmy Carter to specifically say that not all people from the south are racists (or did he and I missed it?) his words were true, nonetheless.

      Perhaps anyone who becomes offended by his words must have a guilty conscience about something?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by nerzog (September 17, 2009 8:29 am ET)
      7  
      I have lived in the South all my life. Jimmy Carter was right. Racism is still a strong undercurrent within Southern Culture, though it is much more subdued than it was 50 years ago. Recent political events, along with caustic rhetoric from Troglodyte Talk Radio, are prompting it to bubble to the surface again.

      Fact is, I was one of those Southern Troglodytes when I was young. I was a racist and used the N-word frequently. I'm not proud of it, but I was a product of the prevailing culture. I eventually outgrew that small-mindedness, but a lot of people haven't. These are the people who are the driving force behind the Teabaggers, Birthers and Tenthers.

      The Republican Party embraced this Fanatical Southern Racist Demographic decades ago in an attempt to acquire a solid voter base. It was called the "Southern Strategy". Anyone who doesn't believe it can look it up.

      Unfortunately, these Troglodytes now own the Republican Party.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Marker (September 17, 2009 9:10 am ET)
        7  
        Honest post Nerzog but racism is everywhere, I live in the north and I have relatives that throw the n-word around like ringing a bell. I too have used that term but with experience and age should come wisdom, I think I'm a better person now. Repugs are not.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by blk-in-alabam (September 17, 2009 9:27 am ET)
        4  
        And many southern white people never paid attention,Republicans imitating Dixiecrat's fight against unions and fair wages that Real Dixiecrat's supported.Many white southerners go along to get along.There was a governor of Mississippi,name Bilbo with a reputation for being a racist.He would drive the long dusty roads,if he saw a white man walking he would pass him by.But if he saw a black man walking he would give him a ride to where ever he was going.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 17, 2009 11:12 am ET)
          2  
          if he saw a white man walking he would pass him by.But if he saw a black man walking he would give him a ride to where ever he was going.
          Did you mean to type it that way? Theodore Bilbo usually did the opposite.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by blk-in-alabam (September 17, 2009 12:08 pm ET)
            2  
            I was told things I posted by old black people living in the Mississippi Delta
            Report Abuse
            • Author by blk-in-alabam (September 17, 2009 12:21 pm ET)
              2  
              They also told me about a rich white contractor.He had gout real bad.He would buy expensive shoes try them on one time,They hurt his feet so he gave them to black people working for him.So one of them said "Boss all us got expensive shoes of all kind,why don't you give shoes to those white fellas workin for you who barefooted,feet hanging out,ain't got no shoes.His reply was,"If I gave them shoes that they really need they would feel I was terating them like less than a white man,and get mad and quit,so I let them go barefoot."
              Report Abuse
    • Author by mk3872 (September 17, 2009 8:39 am ET)
      11  
      Actually, it is MSNBC that is ignorant here.

      Giving air-time to an old-style neo-nazi racist to talk about a race issue is absolutely absurd.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (September 17, 2009 8:43 am ET)
        8  
        That's a good point. After all, it was Uncle Pat who declared the Culture War back in 1992.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (September 17, 2009 9:24 am ET)
        7  
        Exactly.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by fairliberal (September 17, 2009 9:55 am ET)
          7
        Actually , Buchanan is there for the very purpose of looking stupid and to show that MSNBC has balance in their reporting. They put him on and Scarborough in the AM so their competition cannot say they have no conservative voices in their programming. But of course the libs will say they are not biased.

        Unlike Fox , who has MANY credible liberal voices on their programs, MSNBC is a joke. And their lack of viewers shows it.

        But as far as Carters comments go, Buchanan is dead on right. And very few people agree with Carter.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
          4  
          Fox has a lot of credible voices on their network? Name some. Please.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by peace4all (September 17, 2009 1:17 pm ET)
          4  
          But of course the libs will say they are not biased.

          man, where have you been? no one here claims MSNBC is unbiased. not even MSNBC. they are the counter to fox.

          And very few people agree with Carter.

          really? got some polling to back that up or are you just reffering to you and the voices in your head?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 11:52 pm ET)
            2  
            Faillib just repeats what Fox tells him as if it were fact. Strange style of posting, really, when you think about it.

            Especially on this issue, Carter is saying there is a strong influence on the right from racism, and every righty is twisting it as Carter saying "all criticism of Obama is racist".

            But to answer Carters claim, which is pretty well documented to any reasonable person, Faily says very few people agree with Carter, meaning Fail needs to convince herself that a majority of Americans disagree with reality to remain comfortable with the lies she accepts. It's interesting.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by darrenkeith3 (September 17, 2009 9:24 am ET)
      7 1
      I agree w/Irony...it's funny how White America hates the word "Racism" has or never will experience it. I support former President Carter in what he said. Former President Carter is not talking about all of White America and it irks me that this country thinks that the mention of the word is taboo. It is what it is. I love "Limousine Liberals" who get on their high horse and try and dictate to us Blacks on what Racism is and how and when it should be used.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MickD (September 17, 2009 10:55 am ET)
        3  
        Remember that South Park episode, where the conclusion was finally that white people will never know what it is like to be marginalized for their skin color, therefore we'll "never know" or "would get it." It was one of the most honest attempts at trying to frame the issue. You are correct, Irony and DK.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (September 17, 2009 11:14 am ET)
        1  
        I have never met a "limousine liberal" in my life. Could you please tell me who they are and how they became so prevalent that apparently everyone in the world has seen them except for me?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MickD (September 17, 2009 2:17 pm ET)
          1  
          Same as Hollywood "elites." Presumably any liberal who dares question anything against the great Heritage Foundation/Rove line cannot be rich and do so because only Repubs and neocons have the golden goose answer.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 3:37 pm ET)
          2  
          Me neither really. My parents, hardcore democrats for years, and very liberal in almost all of their views, my Dad worked for the local paper mill for 44 years, never on salary, always a union/hourly guy, and my Mom, still working for the local school district as a "secretary" (as she puts it, she hates the administrative assistant label).

          I don't think either one of them have ever seen the inside of a limo in their lives. All of my friends that are liberals, while not exactly poor (well, some are pretty poor), are not quite up to the limo liberal name tag, or, well, actually not even close.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by phredicles (September 17, 2009 10:05 am ET)
      9 1
      Jimmy Carter becomes more of a hero to me every time he opens his mouth. He's the kind of grouchy old man I hope to be, one who's grouchy at injustice and a lack of basic human decency. He knows, as the Dylan/Hendrix song goes, that the hour is getting late, and so he will not talk falsely - he calls things exactly as he sees them.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Boxer1979 (September 17, 2009 10:15 am ET)
      4  
      Buchanan is a retard. This is a man who contridicts his words too much for someone to even begin to listen what he says. The fact BUCHANAN that you think racism is not here no more is ignoring the fact that it still exists and has been going on ever since America was inhabited in the 1600's. Native Americans, African-Americans, Asians, and believe it or not even other visitors from other countries are discriminated on. It is a problem! PERIOD! If it was a Latino, Asian, or even someone who is white, but speaks in a different accent who takes office as president will be discrimnated on. This country has a history of racism period and it needs to be addressed.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by grunt (September 17, 2009 10:25 am ET)
        3
      I think we all need to be careful who we call racist. If we throw it around freely, people can do the same to us. It eventually makes the word unimportant and it softens the harshness of being called "racist". That word should have a head-turning impact when used. The word will become overused as "Socialism" and "Communism" have been over the last 2 years. No one likes being called a racist, and the problem is that the accuser never has to prove it, but the accused always has to disprove it (particularly if you are a white man).
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      • Author by peace4all (September 17, 2009 1:24 pm ET)
        3  
        if you don't want to be called a racist then don't associate with them. i look forward to the next tea party when all you good non racist folks call out the one who are at your rallys.
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    • Author by dmhack (September 17, 2009 10:33 am ET)
      7  
      Sometimes there is no one more honest that someone in the sunset years of their life. There's nothing left to prove, nothing to gain by lying. And some people, when they reach this point, feel compelled to leave us with one last gift--the truth.

      Jimmy Carter doesn't care what idiots like Pat Buchanan think. He doesn't care what the morons on Fox say. He simply explained the way he see things, based on having lived in the south for most of his life. In a court, Carter might easily be considered an expert witness.

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      • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 10:58 am ET)
        6 1
        Thing is, I think Carter has been like this his entire life. And that's a good thing. He might be one of our country's greatest statesmen, but not a very good president.
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        • Author by shaggles (September 17, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
          1  
          I wasn't old enough to judge for myself whether Carter was a good Prez or not. What was it that made him not very good?
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          • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 12:43 pm ET)
            3 1
            I also, was not really old enough to pay attention, but from speaking with father in law about Carter, he says the same thing. The man was just too honest for his own good. He told the truth all of the time, and it sunk him.
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            • Author by foghornleghorn (September 17, 2009 1:16 pm ET)
              3  
              He was honest, but more importantly, he wasn't a willing pawn of the corporations.
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        • Author by historygeek001 (September 17, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
          1  
          I agree with you. He's a truly decent man and was therefore not a good choice for President.
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        • Author by phredicles (September 17, 2009 6:36 pm ET)
          4 1
          I think his presidency is under-rated. But whether he was a good president or not, he is without a doubt the greatest EX-president this country has ever had. He is a great American and a great human being, too.
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          • Author by phredicles (September 17, 2009 6:37 pm ET)
            3 1
            Upon reflection, John Quincy Adams was a very great ex-president too. But Carter is at the very least in the top 2.
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    • Author by sluggo (September 17, 2009 11:31 am ET)
      4 1
      LOL

      This is great! The old Cracker Buchanan, who is just as likely to show up on air in a hooded sheet with a KKK tattoo on his forehead as he is in a suit and tie, criticizes Carter for an "ignorant" statement!
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      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 17, 2009 11:57 pm ET)
        3 1
        I've seen/read/heard more idiots refer to Carter as a "fool" in the past couple of days than I can remember. Carter is smart, honest and principled, making him the AntiChrist to the modern Republican party.
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    • Author by machinehead (September 17, 2009 11:52 am ET)
      1 8
      Beck, Limbaugh and Buchanan are correct in asserting that Obama is a White-hating racist, as well as a socialist. Obama has left little room for doubt about that.

      But don't misunderstand my statement. Obama should keep doing what he's doing! I wouldn't want to stop him. He has done more to slap stupid, complacent White people in the face and wake them up than any politician I can remember.
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    • Author by shaggles (September 17, 2009 11:54 am ET)
      3 1
      The right wants us to think that he said all the attacks are based on racism so they can whine about how they can't criticize a black President without being called racist but that's not what he said. I don't see how anyone can deny that at least some of these attacks are based on racism. That's just stupid.
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    • Author by easilyamused65 (September 17, 2009 12:16 pm ET)
      4 1
      Pat Buchanan = "equal parts malevolent and ignorant"
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    • Author by roninkannushi1711 (September 17, 2009 12:18 pm ET)
      1 1
      Fellow Matterers,

      Really? Pat Buchanan skips along, circumnavigating the lit cross, and is critical of Fmr. Pres. Carter? Really! I mock his banal excreta. Alas, his verbal flatulence is Klan-in-hand with his breathing. I do not wish him death. That would make me as good as he is. He is not nice at all, is he?

      Mr. Buchanan is in a safe place, with his crowd of like-minded people. Adding that up with supportive viewers, you have the rotten apple in our national barrel: seeds and pulp are covered by skin color. Luckily, Americans are becoming immune to his rancorous petulance.

      I am most determined to act humanely towards others, given the heartfelt anger, and prejudice that Mr. Buchanan and ilk live.

      It be it,
      Ronin Kannushi.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by roninkannushi1711 (September 17, 2009 12:18 pm ET)
         
      Fellow Matterers,

      Really? Pat Buchanan skips along, circumnavigating the lit cross, and is critical of Fmr. Pres. Carter? Really! I mock his banal excreta. Alas, his verbal flatulence is Klan-in-hand with his breathing. I do not wish him death. That would make me as good as he is. He is not nice at all, is he?

      Mr. Buchanan is in a safe place, with his crowd of like-minded people. Adding that up with supportive viewers, you have the rotten apple in our national barrel: seeds and pulp are covered by skin color. Luckily, Americans are becoming immune to his rancorous petulance.

      I am most determined to act humanely towards others, given the heartfelt anger, and prejudice that Mr. Buchanan and ilk live.

      It be it,
      Ronin Kannushi.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 12:27 pm ET)
      1  
      Here's another "good" story:

      Vet attacked by man
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    • Author by J-R10-5 (September 17, 2009 1:09 pm ET)
      1 7
      Being white, I guess I can make comments about X President Carter and not be considered a racist?

      This Carter guy the peanut farmer, right? Had a drunk brother, right? Lusted other women besides his wife, right? Was President for 4 years, right? What is he known for as President? Inflation comes to my mind. Can anyone assist me with other accomplishments? I also remember when he went to Washington his daughter didn't attend PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Those schools everyone pays taxes to provide. I guess they weren't good enough for his child. Why?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (September 17, 2009 3:46 pm ET)
        5 1
        Phew boy, here we go again.

        Almost everyone on here acknolwedges that Carter was not a good President, but what has he accomplished in his life? Well, let's run down the list shall we?:

        Georgia State Senator
        Governor of Georgia
        President of the United States of America
        Naval Academy graduate
        Nuclear submariner
        Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize
        Started Habitat for Humanity
        Camp David Accords
        Panama Canal Treaties
        Brokered Peace between Israel and Egypt (still holding now)
        Founded the Carter Center (works for global human rights)
        Brokered agreement with N. Korea on taking down their nuclear program.

        Those are just the highlights, and there are many more in there. The man is a national treasure, you jerks just don't happen to see it because he is a democrat.
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        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (September 18, 2009 12:03 am ET)
          4  
          Mighty nice of you to assist R2D2 with his impediments, Mag, but I think it's just a drunk trying to remember the 70s. Now if you'll excuse me , I gotta go lust some wimmen!
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      • Author by phredicles (September 18, 2009 12:24 am ET)
        4 1
        Yes, President Carter admitted to lusting in his heart. I suppose you prefer political figures who lust in other places, such as:
        -in an airport men's room, like Larry Craig
        -in a bordello-issued diaper, like David Vitter
        -on text messages with teenage pages, like Mark Foley
        -in Argentina, like Mark Sanford
        -in the White House with Jeff Gannon, like SOMEONE in the Bush administration
        -with a mistress given a sinecure job with a relative, like John Ensign
        -with boy prostitutes in the Dominican Republic, like Rush Limbaugh

        Of course, a Republican never lusts in his heart, since he doesn't have one.
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    • Author by rarab (September 17, 2009 2:01 pm ET)
      1  
      Come come now children!
      Obama is 50% white and 50% black. Why must he refered to as black?
      If a white man disagrees with a white man he is disagreeble.
      But when a white man dissagres black man then he is a racist?
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    • Author by afisher (September 17, 2009 5:29 pm ET)
      1  
      As this comment section seems to have taken a strange twist, it does seem ironic that here is Buchanan calling an ex-President out for his opinon about race...and everyone here is somehow trying to say this and that. My first flash memory moment is of Buchanan defending America by saying that everything done in this country was by WHITE GUYS and therefore no one who doesn't fit that category should be able to run the country.

      Of course President Obama does not want to take on this issue, because every agenda item he supports will then be spun by the right-wing as racially motivated. It is sufficiently bad enough that the Right is denigrating all low income groups by seeking ways to eliminate a healthcare portal, why would the WH want them to target specific minority groups? Legislators are already doing this daily: Baucus Plan and Price (GOP) healthcare plan of July 09 to address illegal migrant groups (code for Hispanics)- done!
      Baucus and Price: Abortion only if rape, incest or MAJOR health concern (code for all low income) - done!
      Continual attacks on ACORN (code for Blacks) - done!

      So trying to nit-pick is silly, accept that racism continues to exist in this country and move-on. But no, the Right want to not so subtly say that RACISM DOES EXIST and it is the WH and Dems who are denigrating these individuals. In order for the GOP to succeed with this, they will need to attack anyone who even uses the word RACISM in an uncoded manner. The GOP attack is not too subtle...and what all of this Racism talk does is move the real topics of discussion (Healthcare Reform, Climate Change, Regulation of Wall Street) off to a side table.

      So wake up DEMS! Don't be gamed into a circular argument with the likes of Buchanan, it is a waste of time!
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