Olbermann to Beck: "Glenn, 9-12ers, if you are invoking 9-11 just to oppose health care reform, go to hell"
November 03, 2009 9:31 pm ET
From the November 3 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:
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gibson has nothing better to do, so he just spends all his time giving olbermann free advertisement on his radio show.
and the great thing is that olbermann ingeniously ignores gibson's relevancy... or whats left of it. he does the same thing to that crazy wingnut, mark levin, who loves to talk about olbermann, as well.
The fact that you are ridiculing Olbermann's words regarding the disrespect that Beck and his RIDICULOUS 9/12ers are showing the people who died on 9/11/01 speaks volumes about your character. I still object to your use of the term "proudconservative" to describe yourself. You are no conservative, you are simply a Fox junkie.
Any IDIOT that understands the feelings this country had on 9-12-2001 knows that the 9/12 movement was about standing true to principles. Some of the principles are conservative, but some should be followed by ALL, even the progressives on MMFA.
Here's a list, for those who don't take the time to look for yourself:
The 9 Principles
1. America Is Good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
The 12 Values
* Honesty
* Reverence
* Hope
* Thrift
* Humility
* Charity
* Sincerity
* Moderation
* Hard Work
* Courage
* Personal Responsibility
* Gratitude
So, which of you will have the courage to stand up, and profess right here for all to see, that you do NOT believe in these qualities?
which of your tenets was he espousing? I'm just curious?
funny thing that most of these guys save jefferson were freemasons......conspiracy theory maybe?
1. America Is Good.
- This is not a principle, it's an opinion.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
- This principle in no way makes you any more of an "American" than the average atheist.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
- Honesty is subjective.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
- I can think of a few domestic violence laws that would strongly disagree with this particular principle.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
- Who are you? Batman?!
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
- This sounds like Glenn Beck nuttiness. What does that even mean and how is it a principle?
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
- You should write that at the bottom of your tax return the next time you file.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
- Were you so concerned that this right had been taken away from you that you had to make it a principle?
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
- Actually, don't they answer to us. Why make a principle that is so selfish?
The 12 Values
* Honesty
* Reverence
* Hope
* Thrift
* Humility
* Charity
* Sincerity
* Moderation
* Hard Work
* Courage
* Personal Responsibility
* Gratitude
- Gee, with all of those values I believe you qualify for a merit badge! Be Prepared!
So, he wants us to follow him to... just where was that exactly?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_stone_%28Latter_Day_Saints%29
If you have any other history about the "Seer Stones" as they relate to Joseph Smith, then by all means provide that information here and point out where the wikipedia entry is inaccurate. We can then debate the veracity of Wikipedia as a valid source.
Yes, Wikipedia is user-edited which means that not only can false information get in, but it can be corrected by others. You have to sift through ALOT of very good information to find a few nuggets of falsehood and outright lies.
No knowledge of how to check the facts. I bet you watch Fox, and believe their crap. Right?
Wikipedia is a good source - to START fact-checking. There are LINKS on their site that let you move to other sites to cross-reference the information.
Y'know about "cross-referencing" do you?
NEVER TAKE ANY SOURCE AT FACE-VALUE! This includes Fox, or even what I post.
We liberals aren't afraid to have our claims double-checked.
Are you????
The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is a principle because, oh I don't know, its in the constitution. What is the constitution but a set of principles that our government is run by. What does it mean?
It means that as an American, I can try just as hard to get as job as the other candidate. However, when he gets the job, its not my duty to run to the local attorney and complain about how its not fair. The constitution never guarunteed that we would all get what we wanted all the time. It does say that we can try. That is what principle number 6 means.
That is why I question both principles 6 and 8. I don't have to make something a principle that is freely our right.
You are engaging in a very deceptive argument that really proves nothing. You are trying to set up a scenario where a person who is hired, or their employer, is victimized by someone who did not get hired based on something that is "not fair." You then go on to say that the Constitution, "never gauranteed that we would all get what we wanted all the time," while ignoring what the Constitution does gaurantee, and that is protection from descrimination.
One of the 12 values:
TRANSLATION: I got mine, screw everybody else . . .
But sure, I can roll with some of the stuff you say you admire in that list of Beck's. For instance, families gay or straight, are sacred and government should not be in the business of telling people who they can or cannot marry. Government should not be in the business of telling women and/or couples when they can or cannot start a family because in America we do not force one's religious beliefs on another.
I do disagree with that stuff about having no guarantee to equal results. It's deplorable that a person of means, hard working as they may be, is given greater access to healthcare than a person of humble means, despite the hard work of the latter, simply because one enjoys greater privilege of wealth and therefore, can afford to pay for better healthcare. If all men are truly created equal then nobody is more entitled than anybody else to greater reward in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness simply due to their financial inability to remain healthy.
Why would anyone not have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness unless they are incarcerated? 7 is ridiculous - so your telling me you don't and have never payed taxes? You dont use public transportation or highways or libraries or public schools that are payed by taxes? 8 is extremely important but i WONDER where was this principal when the right lashed out at iraqi war protestors? Wasn't that just expressing their opinion and disagreeing with authority? Why did beck rail on them? Is it just when it is disagreeing with a democrat? 9 is completely flawed - first, the government works for the majority not just for individuals. Second, we are supposed to elect the people that best represent our own agenda. We can't have every american vote on every law. And you can't just go out and break the law just because you don't agree with it. I didn't agree with most of Bush's policies but I didn't just say I dont agree with it therefore, I will stop following the law or stop paying taxes. You can disagree, you can protest and you can vote. You can't just expect the government to either do everything you want them to do or stop doing anything. It doesn't work that way.
The problem with getting open minded people to engage with conservative ideals is this: Conservatives have literally hijacked the American lexicon and distorted the meanings of words. By loading them with preconceived and arbitrary ideology--- words like American, patriot, liberal, empathy, liberty, freedom, equality, values, and Constitution, to name a few, are so distorted that you can now use them as ammunition to attack sincere and good-hearted people as traitors and enemies of humanity.
Our common language is so bifurcated that reasonable dialogue is virtually impossible. Opportunist like Sarah Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh thrive on this; and the body politic in this country has become a cauldron of noise rather than a foundry for progress.
Unless the person disagreeing with authority is disagreeing with people in authority that I support.
And where the flock is Beck's humility, honesty, sincerity, moderation or courage?
In fact, not many of your leaders on the right have shown any courage. Most have consistently promoted sending Americans to war, yet none of the TV and radio right wing talkers served their country. They've only served themselves.
Just thought I'd fix that for ya, Glenn.
You know, one can be progressive and a firm believer in those 12 values that Beck preaches about, but standing behind those 9 principles are not what makes an American righteous or good.
Standing behind them makes an American greedy.
Go to hell.
Beck fails this one BIG TIME!!!!
I remember that day quite well, and the country was traumatized. Glenn Beck's 9/12 club is based on the perverse premise that America was somehow better off and more in touch with its essential goodness that day because three thousand people had been murdered as we watched on television. Think I'm being harsh? These are the first words of Beck's book, Common Sense:
If you really do think that the country changed for the better because thousands of people were murdered, yeah, I'll proudly "stand up, and profess right here for all here to see" that I think you've got a bent moral compass, and memorizing a list of principles and values isn't going to help you.
Let's be honest: this list of 9 principles and 12 values is a marketing gimmick, no different in function than the Colonel's 11 Herbs and Spices or the McDonald's "Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun..." song. Only the Ronald and the Colonel's gimmicks make more sense, and they didn't promise to make you a better person.
Have you failed to notice that Beck's list isn't even coherent?
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
So atheists are excluded from Glenn's club. Fair enough.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
My spouse and I are the ultimate authority? Wow. God will be upset to hear that, especially after you pledged to make Him the Center of your Life. But, fine, now God's not the ultimate authority, it's you and your spouse.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
Now wait just a second. I thought my spouse and I were the ultimate authority, and now you're telling me we aren't above the law? What's the point of being the ultimate authority if the law's authority turns out to be more ultimate?
Keith Olbermann is no more or less evil than anyone else on this planet. There happens to be a bible quote, right on point here: Romans 3:23. Perhaps you've read it?
Glenn himself doesn't believe in personal responsibility, and neither do most of the commentators on the right. Know how I know? Because they refuse to issue retractions and corrections when they make factual errors. That goes for Mr. Beck's crap about honesty as well. Van Jones is not a convicted felon, and did not serve six months in prison as Mr. Beck claimed. That lie still stands, though, doesn't it?
How about courage and charity? All right, then here's Sean Hannity, who agreed to be waterboarded for charity. Keith Olbermann, whom you claim is evil, got his checkbook out, ready to pay a very generous per second amount to charity for every second Hannity lasted. Sean still hasn't fulfilled his word.
Rush Limbaugh fails almost the entire list, every day.
Why go on?
1. America is Good
As has been pointed out, this is not a principle. Further, I would add that America is only as good as it's worst decision. The Patriot Act didn't make America good. Slavery didn't make America good. Invading Iraq for fun and profit didn't make America good. America's various 'wars' on it's own citizens don't make it good. Does America do good things? Of course, like tsunami relief, just as one example.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life
And if you are an atheist or agnostic, what then? Why do you insist on being exclusive of Americans based on what they believe? The Constitution allows them the freedom to choose not to follow a religious system, but you would deny that those who make a choice different from yours their rights? And, if you insist on religion, you edge towards theocracy and we're back to the Inquisition. That what you want?
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
Crap. Who are you, who is Glenn Beck to tell me what I must try to be? I don't believe in this one at all, jstephens005. By the way, neither does Glenn!
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
That's right! Just ask David Koresh! Oops. Bad example? Define family, please. It means more than blood relatives, in my opinion, but you likely won't agree. So, am I un-American then? Even though I'm working to preserve freedom, and you are postulating fascism, where we all believe exactly the same, and any deviation is punished?
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above the law.
What about Bush II's signing statements, where he said 'This is the law for everyone else, but not for me'? Or Mr. Limbaugh, caught with enough oxycontin, that, had he been anyone else at all, he would've been charged with dealing, and everything he has would've been seized. Home, cars, money, all of it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
Really? So, if I want to have a drink in my pursuit of happiness, that's okay, but I lose my liberty if I'd rather have a joint instead? Doesn't sound very equal to me. What about the 45,000 Americans who die unnecessarily each year from lack of health insurance? Don't they deserve an equal chance at your trinity of ultimate rights? Because they didn't get it, and Beck is pushing hard to make sure another 45,000 die for just the same reason next year.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
Talk to the IRS. Try to get the 16th Amendment repealed. Good luck with that. I paid in taxes to fund a war of opportunity that killed thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis, to the tune of 750 billion so far. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceaser's. Heard that line before? I refer you back to #2 on your list. What about corporate charity, ladled out in the billions of dollars? Why do I only ever hear people on the right carping about helping poor people when rich people also grunt and root at the public trough?
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
Yes it is. At least, that was the story about protesters of the Iraq war. They were called far worse things than un-American, too. Not to mention that groups who organized to protest that fiasco were followed and harassed by government agencies. This one is pure hypocrisy on Glenn's part.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
And you'll get another chance in just about a year to vote and make your feelings known. Meanwhile, the MAJORITY of Americans, just as red-blooded as you, have chosen our current representatives. You do answer to the government, by the way. Every been pulled over for a traffic citation? Ever paid taxes, which the bible instructs you to do?
Let's not get into the 12 'values'. I've already shown that Sean, Glenn, and Rush don't believe them, so the hypocrisy is growing tedious to enumerate. As a realist, I'm not a big believer in hope. As an iconoclast, I have little time for reverence. Of course, that's just me.
But, for the record, I do have the courage to stand up and profess it right here for all to see, jstephens005.
On this issue, he was right on the money.
worship: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power.
Perhaps it was merely hyperbole, but I believe you used this word incorrectly.
I do not worship Keith Olbermann. It is impossible for 'this site' to worship at the feet of Mr. Olbermann because MMfA is an inanimate object.
Psst, Craig, don't look now, but you were the one who introduced the metaphor of "worship[ing] at the feet" of Olbermann. Or at least I assumed you were using the expression as figuratively as did Cat. Are you really sure you want to criticize Cat for using that phrase in the exact same manner you did?
I don't like Beck, because he's an idiot.
So, I don't watch him.
If you don't like this site, change the channel.
I don't mind "healthy" discussions.
I have always welcomed anyone to show how any news source lies and distorts. I've even asked Fox-huggers to post links to sites like MMFA that show "liberal" or MS media bias. No takers yet. How 'bout you?
But, if people want to whine about the views on this site... well, they don't have to come to this site, right?
If you jump into a pool full of sharks, don't whine about all the sharks around you. Just stay out of the pool.
by the way "honesty is subjective". man that is pathetic.
Ok. Didn't mean to lump you into the group of "Fox-huggers".
But you are calling us hypocrites. And so you are saying we act in contradiction to our stated beliefs or feelings. What is so hypocritical about us or this site? You came to this site. What kind of opinions did you expect?
I like MMFA because they expose lies and distortions in the media. It just seems to be coming from the right lately, especially from Fox.
If you know of site that does the same thing as MMFA, and exposes lies and distortions from "left wing" media outlets, please direct any of us to sites. Please, by all means, feel free to make this site "fair and balanced."
Leaning left or right is much different than lying and distorting the facts. Fox-huggers can't tell the difference between "leaning" and "lies".
We wait for you to send us the links to left-wing media outlet lies and distortions.
Otherwise, you may want to reconsider just who's acting hypocritical.
This website seems to favor Olbermann over Beck. That's not hypocrisy. Bias? Sure, but then, this website is explicit in its mission statement about highlighting conservative misinformation and media bias. I congratulate you for deftly picking up on this website's explicit mission.
like how limbaugh went to prision for his drug use?
Oh, 'bout as much time as Nixon and Cheney.
Oh wait . . .
Just out of curiosity... when the hell did you right-wing/conservative/Republican punks corner the market on all those values and morals??
When you spew out a list like that you prove only that you must do so to remind yourself that you must believe in all those ideals listed instead of simply believing in all those ideals listed without the constant reminder!!!
all men who were soooo honest about their affiars (save for sanford manybe) while railing against bill clinton.
not only do they embody honesty but also the importance of family.
what about the 8 years that fox personalities and beck dumped on people who disagreed with president bush?
what about beck demonizing people who disagree with his point of view and calling people communists and unamerican?
i refer of course to the man who shot up a class of legal immigrants that were taking english language courses.
the guy said he was a fan of beck and feared the government was coming to take his guns......as proclaimed by beck days beforehand.
I don't like Beck, because he's an idiot. So, I don't watch him.
If you don't like this site, change the channel.
Sorry to bruise your ego, but you won't be missed.
I have the courage to say I do NOT believe in those qualities.
Now what? Next, you'll say I'm un-American?
Denouncing someone because they don't see things your way is another one of your "qualities"?
The right to disagree is, well, American.
Don't wingnuts OFTEn use excessive punctuation?????????????
Thank you, Keith -- you took the words right out of my mouth . . .
So a person and his/her spouse is now a "family?"
I think it's despicable that Beck is resorting to things like comparing healthcare reform to 9/11 and saying the President's trip to Dover, Delaware was nothing more than a photo-op, just to damage Obama's reputation.
A reckoning is coming next fall. 2010 will be the demise of the liberal agenda once again for 20-25 years until they can brainwash a new generation through the educational system. But like always they will get jobs and look at their pay stubs and look at what an obese, diabetic and sick government does with the results of all their hard work. Then they will once again flush the ideology of Karl Marx, Stalin, and Mao down the political toilet.
and as for an idiot with a microphone, well ill refer you to beck, limbaugh, hannity, savage, levin, larson, ingrahm.
the only reckoning that is coming is the one that will forever ensure neo cons will never get power again
We can only hope that this countries citizens can and will continue to realize that right-wing corporate controlled ideology is the single most un-American, un-ethical concept to ever exist in this nation!!
He may be a failure, but he tends to speak the truth. This can be independently verified. Can't say that about Fox.
I'd rather listen to a failure with integrity, than a successful con-artist.
No matter who speaks, we should always independently verify the message. If there's a pattern of lies and distortions, we should reject that source.
That's the patriotic thing to do. That's the American thing to do.
Ratings are used to set advertising rates. It is not an indication of whether a media outlet tells the truth or lies and distorts.
It is a fact that Fox lies and distorts. This has been independently verified numerous times. So, if Fox has higher ratings, it's more of a reflection on the intelligence of the viewers.
Swallow what Fox shoves down your throat, but I'd prefer to check all claims.
When I check Fox's claims, they loose big time.
But, feel free to offer independently verified examples of the "left-wing" media or MSM lies and distortions. Unlike the Fox-huggers, I'm always open to learning new things.