Carlson on Ft. Hood shooting: "A lot of people would say political correctness got us into this mess"
November 11, 2009 7:54 am ET
From the November 11 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
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The on-screen graphic reads "Looking For Clues". What the show is implying is that they're looking for scapegoats.
How does that help?
We're fighting two wars in defense of liberty and religious freedom and religious tolerance and these people think the military fighting those wars should discriminate on the basis of religion. Amazing. These conservtaives NEVER get it right, do they?
This is not a war of Christianity versus Islam. It's a war of Freedom and Democracy and Tolerance versus Religuious Extremism and Intolerance.
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And you can't win THAT war by becoming a mirror-image of the enemy you're fighting!
We dont even talk about political correctness anymore in terms of singling out religions or minority groups. Calling not doing that politically correct is just a horrendous statement. Politically correct is like using euphemisms in speech and avoiding comparisons like death camps and healthcare reform. That would be considered politicall correct. Not when this country doesn't target millions of people based on some minority group affiliation. That is just being ethically and morally sound. It has nothing to do with political correctness.
Thing is, this guy, this shooter, was deranged for whatever reason. I've said this before on here, and I'll say it again. Knowing a psychiatrist, she tells me that the first thing most psychiatrists do once they start their practice, is to get themselves into therapy, because ultimately, what happens a lot of the time is that these mental health professionals will take a lot of the burden of what other people are telling them onto themselves. If THEY don't get therapy, something like this, could easily happen. And considering what he was talking about with his patients, it's not hard to see how/why he snapped.
It's not because people are too PC. That's just ridiculous. This was a guy, is a guy, who has major mental deficiencies. It's not because he's a Muslim, it's because he's messed up in the head.
I guess you don't count his twenty plus emails to a radical extremist imam, Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. I guess we just write off his power point presentation at Walter Reed where he said muslim soldiers should rise up against the US? I especially liked the part of the boiling oil bath for non-believers!
It's not because he was muslim you say? Please tell us in your qualified position of how this isn't so? Did he receive any support from the extremist imam in Yemen? How about from cells here in the States?
How about let's get all the facts and make a judgement. It may very well turn out Maj Hasan was just "messed up" but the evidence could also show he was terrorist (man-caused disasters...Barry's new word) hell bent on killing fellow soldiers. Men and women he was supposed to be helping.
He has no connections to terrorist groups. None. Did he e-mail someone? Yes, he did. Does that make him connected with terrorists? No, it does not.
Did he receive support from overseas? There is no indication of that at all. None. Zero. Zilch. Did he receive help from cells in the US? Again, no support, none, zero, zilch.
I also didn't say he was a "little messed up in the head", I did say he had major mental deficiencies, and described HOW that might have come about, and hence, his snapping.
I don't believe him being Muslim had anything to do with his shooting spree, and killings of innocent people. None.
Wow - that IS easier.
In his sick mind, he was saving these soldiers and himself, in my opinion. Him being Muslim had little or nothing to do with it.
He wrote a book called "Kill the Best Gentiles!" and yet his Christian beliefs aren't an issue.
The implication that all Muslims are terrorist or that all Muslims want to destroy America is dangerous. It's racist and wrong.
Do all Christians want to destroy Jews and Muslims? Blackwater seemed to center around that... but even if that came out to be true, I couldn't condemn all of Christianity. Just the fringe... the White Supremacist and Von Brunn's of the world.
Is that PC? No... it's common sense, which doesn't exist on Fox. The common sense is that non-whites are not to be trusted.
He was also a US Army Major and a psychiatrist -- that "had a lot if not everything to do with it," too . . .
PC treatment of majors and head-shrinkers is just as much to blame for this, IMO . . .
Dude, e-mailing a terrorist or terrorist group does make a connection. he may not have agreed with them but the connection is there.
How many anti-abortion cells are there in the United States Tbone? Its not because Scott Roader is a Christian you say? Please tell us in your qualified position of how this isn't so? Dis he recieve any support from extremist Anti-abortion camps here in the U.S?
Not sure where the guilt of a Christian is being argued here or anywhere else, but if you would like to discuss it, then please point to an example.
He's a murderer . . . motives are unknown at this time. Speculation is rampant, but actual KNOWLEDGE is not.
BTW, the D.C. Sniper who was executed last night was a Muslim and had declared a jihad. He killed 10 people and injured more. This was in 2002 . . . was he called a "terrorist" by the Bush Administration, Fox or hate talk radio? Nope, wouldn't have been good PR for the run up to the unnecessary invasion of Iraq NOR for GWB's "savior" persona which was being created at that time.
I think you are trying to discuss motive, and motive has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
what kind of batcrazy statement is that? so as a human my beleifs are not my responcibility. if my beliefs lead me to kill someone thats not my fault?
and no muslims are NOT inherently guilty in my view. but if you throw out motive because it involves a muslim (or whatever religion or cult)then you are a fool.
For example. You have a dead body in a room filled with enemies. Each and everyone of them may have had a motive to kill the person, but the one(s) who acted on that motive and actually comitted the act are the ones who are guilty of the person's death.
Religious belief can be a motive, certainly, and it would be foolish to dismiss it, but I doubt seriously that we are going to find it to be the sole reason for Nidal Hasan's actions in this case.
It was proved that Roeder was a Fox News fan and a fan of Bill O'Reilly... does it condemn all of those people too?
Your logic is false. It's based on a hatred or fear of Muslims. It's not PC to denounce, it's right versus wrong.
Will he be tried militarily, in which case they have their own death penalty laws? I believe the method is lethal injection.
I would also submit that Nidal Hasan is a unique opportunity to study the mind of someone who is guilty of the crimes he has committed. By killing him, we may very well be allowing the next tragedy happen. By studying him, we may be able to prevent them in the future.
As a matter of logic, I am intrigued to hear Nidal's reasoning for his actions. As a case study, he may be invaluable.
If there are truly "hundreds" of examples, then you should have no trouble posting a link or even a quote that supports your statement...
When you apply the same logic to Christianity, it no longer works, but you interpret it as thinking that we think Christianity is wrong.
I think Dr. Tiller's murderer is a vile person who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But I don't feel the same way about all Christians, only the extremist who share Roeder's viewpoint.
Likewise, I don't hate and fear all Muslims, just the one extremist who want to do us harm.
You see... I can make the distinction between Christian Extremist and Christians as well as Muslim Extremist and Muslims... why is it so hard for Fox and Friends
You are so off base with that comment you couldn't be more wrong. We are not saying he is innocent. We all know he is guilty and should go to jail or serve whatever the maximum penalty is for his crime which is life in prison or the death penalty Im sure depending on the jurisdiction this falls under.
We are just trying to explain that to define this as an act of terror we need motivation and that remains unclear as to what the overall driving force was here. Its likely either he was severely psychological disturbed just as much as he was doing all of this for religious and/or political ideology. He could have been driven over the edge by harassment or being forced to deploy when he didnt want to just as much as he could have carefully crafted this out weeks prior. His actions and motivation is what defines this as terror and not the circumstantial evidence surrounding it. So please believe we all know he is guilty and refusing to accept that this was an act of terrorism as of yet does not mean any one thinks he is any less guilty of the actual crimes.
By the way, maybe I'm alone in this one, but I haven't really seen political correctness when it comes to American Muslims. I live in Philadelphia and I hear things on the street every day that are offensive to Muslims. My stepmother happens to be a Jordanian Muslim, and every day she hears things that are awfully offensive. Where is this "PC" attitude supposed to be coming from?
I'll tell you what is PC. That's talking with people like you who make generalized, wild accusations and have nothing to back them up. People here are being pretty stinking nice in even being civil to you.
We're not co-signing your BS talking point. Give it up.
personally i hope him being muslim has nothing to do with is actions. there is way to much hate and its getting worse.
1. God expects full loyalty and promises Heaven and threatens with Hell (wow, sounds RADICAL I know).
2. Muslims may be seen as moderate, but God is not (I know, super radical again).
3. I love the Koran and being a Muslim, but I don't want to live under Islamic rule (now if he were really a true believer/radical, he'd want Sharia law, as this is one of tennents espoused by radicals like Bin Laden, and others).
4. Fighting to establish an Islamic state is condoned by Islam (the religion, not the person, but remember, fighting to establish a Christian state is condoned by the Bible as well).
5. Muslim soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk of hurting/killing believers unjustly-will vary! (meaning, what one person may consider just, others may not).
And finally:
"Department of Defense should allow Muslim Soldiers the option of being released as conscientious objectors to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events..."
Oh no! That was SO full of violence, I can't stand it!
Actually, it looks like a fairly well reasoned and coherent presentation, which you didn't obviously read through at all.
I really don't like the way the first two sound - he is making his religion black and white - like two extremes with no middle ground and he has to pick a side - not a good way at all to think about one's religion. It should be a source of peace and comfort for him. His words sound like it has become a source of turmoil and conflict. This is the problem with ALLL RELIGIONS these days - the radical point of view often leads one down a destructive road. Being a radical anything is often extremely destructive as your are taking an extreme view point and constantly forced to defend it and abide by it. That is bound to result in eventual conflict with somebody or something or within oneself. He was likely mentally unstable and his radicalism combined with harassment and his unwillingness to be deported while being forced to all lead to a climax of murderous rage.
That would be my assessment with no real proof to back it up other than what i read but i think its clear this guy was suffering from multiple afflictions and they all likely contributed in some way or another. Still not ready to call this an act of terrorism though as there is no real clear sign he was doing it as result of trying to spread free and further some religious or political ideology. I think its just as likely, he was trying to use religion to cope with his growing psychological unrest and it just led him further down the road when he took some extremist viewpoint.
From the NY Times:
"But the federal authorities dropped an inquiry into the matter after deciding that the messages from the psychiatrist, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, did not suggest any threat of violence and concluding that no further action was warranted, government officials said Monday.
Counterterrorism and military officials said Monday night that the communications, first intercepted last December as part of an unrelated investigation, were consistent with a research project the psychiatrist was then conducting at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington on post-traumatic stress disorder."
The Pentagon thinks you're full of it.
From the same article:
"In a statement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said, “At this point, there is no information to indicate Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had any co-conspirators or was part of a broader terrorist plot.” The statement concluded that “because the content of the communications was explainable by his research and nothing else was found,” investigators decided “that Major Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning.”
The FBI thinks you're full of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/us/10inquire.html
To make a comparison and an analogy I think you could really get behind, did Eric Rudolph plant the bombs in Atlanta because of his Christianity or do you only do nuance when it favors you?
Looks like the Pentagon is taking another look now doesn't it? His screeds will be scrutinized like never before. Let's wait till the facts get out, as I said in my original post that you have trouble comprehending, then we'll see what the outcome is. Fair?
As for not going after people because of exercising protected First Amendment rights . . . maybe. There is no law and should NEVER be any law preventing the free exercise of religion . . . any religion.
From the Huffington Post:
Shannyn Moore: Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism
Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism. It's shocking to write, but it's time to start calling it what it is. The "war on terror" needs to include domestic terrorists.
Cristina Page: The Murder of Dr. Tiller, a Foreshadowing
For those who would like to think Sunday's murder in church of Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, is an isolated incident, here's the horrifying news: You are wrong.
kinda sounds like the "a lot of people say" to me.
and i don't agree with carlson with just about everything she says.
Yeah, I can believe that. <not>
When you saw the guy (not Rudolph) they thought did the Atlanta bombing did you immediately think that he was a homophobic, anti-abortion zealot?
Btw, who'd of ever thunk Carlson could land any job other than hostess at Applebee's?
When are these right wing nutjobs going to realize the first amendment protects speech from government regulation and law. You can say anything you want, and I can say anything I want about what you're saying.
You know, for a group that is always saying this or that is unconstitutional, you sure don't know much about what the constitution says.
Maybe the real problem is that the right wing nut job leaders, such as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, say something is unconstitutional and since thier followers have no intellectual curiosity, just keep repeating what their illustrious leaders say, hence the term ditto head.
I guess you still don't get what the First Amendment means.
If we as a group of like minded progressive people can get Fox Nose shut down, that DOES NOT violate the first amendment.
If the goverment shuts them down that is a violation.
You see the difference yet?
And can we distinguish a difference between what is "ok" and what is Constitutionally allowed?
You and Carrie Prejan need a civics lesson. The Bill of Rights protects us from the Government, not from private entities.
If my boss fires me because I say a racist comment, he is entitled to.
Now does that help you out in understanding of the first amendment, or do we have to have another go around here?
Our political correctness towards Muslims (albeit is necessary) was a detriment in this case. That and the inability for the FBI to communicate their findings on the guy with the Pentagon (is the Gorelick Wall back) are the main factors for this madman not being stopped before he snapped.
And you all can spin this all you want....this was a TERRORIST ATTACK.
http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=11459938
http://www.nationalledger.com/ledgerdc/article_272628889.shtml
Just leave it to Fox Snooze to focus on this story because he is a muslim! SMH!
1) "People say" without giving the names of the people.
2) "Studies show" without providing any type of information about the non-existent study.
3) "Polls suggest" without providing any information about the poll other that the fact that Frank Luntz ran it and rigged it for republican sheeple.