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O'Reilly asks anti-choice activist if she "believes that Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill"

November 11, 2009 9:16 pm ET

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    • Author by reanna-mator (November 11, 2009 9:21 pm ET)
      2  
      Hey Billo.

      Guess where I'm taking a little trip to next week?
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    • Author by Boxer1979 (November 11, 2009 9:41 pm ET)
      7 1
      Anti-choice loons need to just get over it. Abortions is legal in this country. If you do not like abortions do not never get one.

      Also can this loon prove evidence(like paperwork or some other form of evidence) before spreading smears. Psst! Your words saying Planned Parenthood is abortion mill is not enough evidence.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by fairliberal (November 11, 2009 11:23 pm ET)
        2 10
        Another demand for proof when someone is expressing an opinion based on personal experience. How dare this woman have an opinion. And yet when some are presented with proof as in Barney Frank's and other dems involvement in the financial mess and acorn's willingness to assist in prostitution and people smuggling, they ignore it. Pretty amazing.

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        • Author by princeofwheels (November 12, 2009 12:06 am ET)
          5  
          ACORN's willingness to assist in prostitution and people smuggling. I thought those two people who showed up at their offices wanted to do that prostitution thing. Pretty amazing..ACORN didn't do anything but those two wanted to smuggle people.
          Isn't that why ACORN called the authorities? Shouldn't those smugglers have been arrested? <>

          Anyone can have an opinion. On this, we agree. Some are based on surroundings, some on hate, some on fanciful dreams and others on an array of factors.

          I just dream of the day when opinions are not considered true fact.

          Thank God for the first amendment. Especially for those around here.

          And what proof/opinion are you speaking of concerning Barney Frank? I believe that should be explained.
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        • Author by Civic Racecar (November 12, 2009 1:51 am ET)
          1 1
          You know there is a fine line between slander and opinion. I'm sure that's probably why there was a "gag order" against Ms. Johnson. I don't have my torts book handy, so I can't give you the elements of a slander claim, but I believe it involves a reckless disregard for the truth. Truth, proven by evidence, is a defense to slander. I think Boxer is asking for proof that these statements are true and not just slanderous statements.
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        • Author by bintx (November 12, 2009 9:25 am ET)
          2  
          fairliberal, do you ever research any of the crap you post from your crush's program? I mean it seriously. You repeat verbatim the talking points from his program . . . you do understand that O'Reilly lies, right?

          As for "Barney Frank and other dems" involvement in the financial mess . . . you need to go read up on how Congress works. Shoot, go listen to Schoolhouse Rocks "How a Bill Becomes Law." If a fifth grader can understand it, you should be able to . . . here's the link.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

          Also, your comments about ACORN are idiotic.
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        • Author by Boxer1979 (November 12, 2009 10:07 am ET)
          2  
          Fail.

          Barney Frank's and other dems involvement in the financial mess and acorn's willingness to assist in prostitution and people smuggling, they ignore it. Pretty amazing.

          When you have dergulation and a mostly controled congress by republicans since 1994 and influience of corporation lobbying you have what we call BS regulation! Also the situation with ACORN is pathetic. Now Haliburton and Blackwater there is something to be looked at.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by DAWUSS (November 11, 2009 9:49 pm ET)
      3 1
      I think "anti-abortion" would have fit more than "anti-choice" - from that I couldn't tell if she was anti-choice or pro-life...
      Report Abuse
    • Author by whillenbrand (November 11, 2009 10:04 pm ET)
      6 1
      I want the job that teaches these idiots to smile non stop for the length of the interview. Bachman is a prim example
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    • Author by proudconservative (November 11, 2009 11:00 pm ET)
      1 10
      Hey language czars here at media matters (for very little), the term is pro-life activist. Thank you
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DAWUSS (November 11, 2009 11:16 pm ET)
        1 3
        There is a slight difference between pro-life and anti-choice.
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        • Author by The Deacon (November 12, 2009 1:06 am ET)
          1  
          Agreed. I'm pro-life, but also believe that Democratic policy will reduce abortions more.
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      • Author by mescal (November 12, 2009 2:06 am ET)
        4  
        Really? where does she come down on the death penalty. And where does she come down on the illegal invasion of Iraq? If she's truly "pro-life", then that should be an easy question to answer.
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        • Author by Brabantio (November 12, 2009 6:56 am ET)
          1 1
          "Pro-life" is owned by anti-abortion advocates. It's their term that they've adopted, so it's not up to anyone else to determine who qualifies for it.

          By the same logic as "what about Iraq?", conservatives can challenge "pro-choice" because some person may not support school vouchers. MMfA should use the proper term, because we expect others to respect our labels as well. People who say "Democrat" when it should be "Democratic" are rightly dismissed as juvenile partisan hacks, for instance, so the left should abide by the same standard of behavior.
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          • Author by mescal (November 13, 2009 1:45 am ET)
            1  
            Sorry, Brabs, but I don't accept your premise that the anti-choice movement "owns" our common language. If it is being used in a dishonest and/or hypocritical way, then I, for one, am going to call them on it. I refuse to cede them the authority to establish definitions in this ongoing debate... especially when those definitions only serve to warp and distort the meaning of those words. It's no different than if they branded themselves as the goodness and justice movement.

            The term "pro-life" is a clear misnomer, because its adherents are also overwhelmingly pro-war, pro-death penalty, and anti-public health care. They often seem far more concerned in controlling a woman's sex life as a means of controlling society and maintaining traditional power structures than in nurturing the young and helpless. Their passion for an individual's life so often seems to end at birth.

            And they also remain... for the most part... silent in the wake of those from within their ranks who have resorted to murder and terrorism in support of their "pro-life" cause.
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            • Author by Brabantio (November 13, 2009 6:42 am ET)
              1  
              Both sides have their own authority. If they don't have it, then we don't either. And tell me this:who do you think is more likely to be wildly dishonest in spinning and is less encumbered by a sense of fair play and shame? Conservatives are just going to be more vociferous with a "pro-death" label, because "pro-choice" is "being used in a dishonest and/or hypocritical way". It doesn't mean it's a valid argument, obviously, but giving them this free pass of subjectivity to determine our labeling is just plain dumb. We lose out on that trade-off in a big way, because "anti-choice" isn't nearly as damaging as "pro-death". Even besides the principle of it, it's strategically idiotic.

              If we want to have a discussion about the merits of the term, that's fine. Is it fitting? Does it encompass all aspects of valuing "life"? Of course not, and I'm not saying that you personally can't draw any conclusions. The headline on this page is the problem. We can understand that the term isn't appropriate while using it at the same time. That's part of having a civil dialogue. It is not up to us to try to establish a substitute label in the public sphere.
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              • Author by mescal (November 14, 2009 2:22 am ET)
                1  
                Actually, it IS up to us. I, for one, don't believe in rolling passively over and allowing manipulative liars and intellectual thugs to define the debate. Apparently you do, but I find your reasoning to be strange, to say the least. You're arguing that progressives dare not challenge the right on the horrific dishonesty of their self-labeling because they might just turn around and challenge us on our own labeling. Are you sh!tting me? Are you really that naive to actually believe that they aren't doing this now? What have you been reading on these boards, Brabs, if not case after case of liberals and progressives being labeled as socialists, Marxists, communists, fascists, Nazis, Satanist, Islamisists, and on and on by these yowling wingnuts whose ire you seem so reluctant to incur? You honestly think that if we refrain from challenging their terminology then they'll accept your gentleman's agreement and leave our own phraseology untouched?

                You may consider speaking the truth to these bullsh!t right wing screech monkeys as "strategically idiotic", but I consider it a practical necessity. Hell, that's sort of the point of Media Matters, isn't it... to point out the misinformation, the dishonest and hypocritical arguments, and the propagandistic misframing of the debate that the right so consistently engages in? Does it really strengthen us to respond so meekly to their attacks?

                Remember the old story of The Emperor's New Clothes. People were more than willing to accept the concept that a naked man... a man of authority, after all... was wearing the finest and sheerist of wardrobes imaginable. No one was willing to challenge this, in spite of the evidence of their own eyes, because everybody else had accepted it, and they all feared looking foolish by challenging accepted belief. They were willing to live within this distorted reality until someone finally showed the stones necessary to dispute this conventional wisdom, and then, suddenly, they could clearly see that the Emperor's ass was hanging out.

                Allowing a bunch of zealous, raging, anti-choice control freaks the faux dignity of labeling themselves pro-life is pretty much the same as keeping the Emperor's nakedness to ourselves. Unreality is simply a poor and ultimately self-defeating strategy. The debate... this contested reality... can only be won by aggressively disputing that which is so obviously disputable. Again, I will not concede to the right the inane and deliberately misleading labels that they've so arrogantly and falsely chosen to self apply.

                And so we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on this question.
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                • Author by Brabantio (November 14, 2009 8:23 am ET)
                     
                  I, for one, don't believe in rolling passively over and allowing manipulative liars and intellectual thugs to define the debate. Apparently you do, but I find your reasoning to be strange, to say the least.
                  The debate goes slightly beyond labels. You may note that on any number of abortion threads I have steadfastly denied the definition of an embryo or fetus as a "person", so be aware that I don't favor allowing manipulative liars to "define the debate" either.
                  You're arguing that progressives dare not challenge the right on the horrific dishonesty of their self-labeling because they might just turn around and challenge us on our own labeling.
                  I'm not claiming that nobody does it now. The point would be that it's poor behavior, and doing it ourselves takes away credibility in criticizing it. What's MMfA going to say about some right-wing pundit using the term "pro-death", if they want to alter labels themselves? Again, who is more brazen by nature in spinning things to their advantage? It's not liberals, clearly. So the pro/con ratio on abandoning the respect for labels is a joke. It doesn't accomplish much, and it legitimizes spin efforts from those who have zero sense of shame and a much greater capacity for dishonesty. Why should any objective moderator try to maintain that sense of decorum if both sides abandon it? It also plays into the sense of "both sides are the same", which is certainly not politically beneficial to the side that generally behaves better. That point is hard to overemphasize.
                  Hell, that's sort of the point of Media Matters, isn't it... to point out the misinformation, the dishonest and hypocritical arguments, and the propagandistic misframing of the debate that the right so consistently engages in? Does it really strengthen us to respond so meekly to their attacks?
                  You're going off the tracks a bit here. It should be clear after my five years here that I support MMfA's exposure of misinformation and hypocrisy. You can address the arguments of the opposition full well without trying to change labels. "Change" is the key word here. If you want to argue that the term doesn't fit, fine. Changing it to suit your own preference (as has been done in the headline here) is a different story. Their movement belongs to them, so they get to name it, the same way nobody else gets to rename your pets. If someone wants to point out that your dog is humping their mailbox, that's legitimate. Trying to get the whole neighborhood to refer to your dog by a different name is not. I don't see how that concept takes any great deal of power away from anyone. People can still make their points very clearly without resorting to childish behavior.

                  As for "meekly", it's just a question of picking your battles, and more importantly, your battlefield. Liberals who make broad and harsh criticisms against conservatives here lose a lot of ground in arguments. Sticking to logic and facts is exponentially more effective. This has been pointed out any number of times regarding the behavior of people like Limbaugh:if we're debating the actual issues, we win, but if we're fighting in the mud, we lose.
                  Allowing a bunch of zealous, raging, anti-choice control freaks the faux dignity of labeling themselves pro-life is pretty much the same as keeping the Emperor's nakedness to ourselves. Unreality is simply a poor and ultimately self-defeating strategy. The debate... this contested reality... can only be won by aggressively disputing that which is so obviously disputable. Again, I will not concede to the right the inane and deliberately misleading labels that they've so arrogantly and falsely chosen to self apply.
                  So you don't have any confidence in your ability to challenge the policies, beliefs and philosophies of the pro-life movement? If you do, then this isn't necessary in the slightest. You can point out the King is naked without trying to change his name to "King Bare-Ass" or whatever. Again, I'm not saying that you can't discuss the merits of the label. I'm just saying that nobody else has the right to try to change it. Point out any hypocrisy you like, just don't push a "we should call them..." argument.
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      • Author by bintx (November 12, 2009 9:27 am ET)
        2  
        No, unless this person is also against the unnecessary invasion of Iraq and capital punishment, the term is simply anti-choice or anti-abortion. I'm anti-abortion because of my religious views, pro-choice because, in THIS country, the government cannot force anyone to conform to MY religious beliefs and neither can I, and pro-life because I believe ALL life is sacred.

        Just because someone calls themselves "pro-life" doesn't mean they are.
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    • Author by erock33 (November 11, 2009 11:56 pm ET)
        2
      I am no fan of the current republican party but I find it hard to throw my support behind a party who has a core belief that if a woman wants to terminate an unborn baby simply because its just not convenient that she should have that right.

      Yes its ok to have an abortion because no one can tell you what to do with your own body....but you better damn well wear your seatbelt on the way to the clinic...its the LAW.
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    • Author by pilotx (November 12, 2009 2:10 am ET)
      4 1
      So in her mind by making abortion more available this constitutes a move to increase abortions? Are they kidnapping pregnant women or something? Offering a two for one special? Is it just me or do those two lookk like the typical creepy uber Christian types?
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      • Author by John Paradox (November 12, 2009 4:46 am ET)
        1  
        Just waiting for the report of a pregnant woman being drugged, then waking up in a bathtub filled with ice after her baby is aborted.
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    • Author by Sharpe (November 12, 2009 5:46 am ET)
      2 1
      There is no way that girl was a former pro-choice advocate. I dont buy that for a second. I have never met anyone that has flip flopped on this stand and certainly not some on who would go for pro-choice to that kind of language. Maybe talking about why fed dollars shouldnt be spent on it but not why a clinic would be open more days. If your for it, your fot it. Who cares how many procedures happen each week? Utter nonsense. Thats like saying im pro gun rights but if they sell a hundred thousand guns this year, I am not for it anymore. Makes no sense.
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    • Author by mikehuck1976 (November 12, 2009 1:58 pm ET)
      1 1
      I wonder if Bill still believes that anyone who does not stop them has blood on their hands as he did with Tiller. I would love to hear his opinion on it.
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    • Author by LIBERTY OR DEATH (November 12, 2009 8:00 pm ET)
      1 1
      After seeing the internal workings of the procedure for the first time on an ultrasound monitor she said there was a definite conversion in her heart. She watched a fetus crumple as it was vacuumed out of a patients uterus.
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