Robertson's "true story": Haiti "swore a pact to the devil" to get "free from the French" and "ever since, they have been cursed"
From the January 13 edition of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club:
PAT ROBERTSON: And, you know, Kristi, something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, "We will serve you if you will get us free from the French." True story. And so, the devil said, "OK, it's a deal."
And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. And out of this tragedy, I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now, we're helping the suffering people, and the suffering is unimaginable.KRISTI WATTS (co-host): Absolutely, Pat.
(H/T to Political Carnival)
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Dutty Boukman was a houngan, or vodoun priest whose death was considered a catalyst to the slave uprising that marked the beginning of the Haïtian Revolution.
Boukman was born in Jamaica, and later sold by his British master to a French plantation owner, who put him to work as a commandeur (slave driver) and, later, a coach driver. His French name came from his English nickname, "Book Man," which he earned due to his ability to read.
On 22 August 1791, Boukman presided in the role of houngan (priest) together with an African-born priestess and conducted a ceremony at the Bois Caïman and prophesied that the slaves Jean François, Biassou, and Jeannot would be leaders of a slave revolt that would free the slaves of Saint-Domingue. A pig, which symbolized the wild, free, and untamable spiritual power of the forest and the ancestors, was sacrificed, an oath was taken, and Boukman and the priestess exhorted the listeners to fight bravely against their oppressors. Days later the Haitian Revolution began. Boukman was not the first to attempt a slave uprising in Saint-Domingue, as he was preceded by others, such as Padrejean in 1676, and François Mackandal in 1757. However, his large size, warrior-like appearance, and fearsome temper made him an effective leader and helped spark the Haitian Revolution.
Yeah, this comment is closer to my interest: Having massmedia 'contextualize' the (tragedy) news with history and geography discussion.
What earthquake DAMAGE in DOMINICAN REPUBLIC ???? (same island - Hispaniola)
What earthquake DAMAGE in CUBA ???? (100 miles from epicenter)
What relief efforts are underway? and How do we CONTRIBUTE to repairing property & saving lives in CUBA and DOMINICAN REPUBLIC rescue ????
REPORT please. REPORT, please.
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Oh, and ...
Dear Lord and Heavenly Father of Indebtedness,
Please please please hear the pleas of this mortal world and this hour
cash out Robertson and Limbaugh who are both waaaaay overdrawn.
Liquidate their arrears.
TAKE Pat-loves-Rush. NOW !!!
Amen ...
There's a similar story from France a few years later, that ended in a lot of people losing their heads, and a tough soldier crowning himself emperor. I'm sure a couple swine got offed, and i have no doubt that a good many oaths were sworn.
Funny how revolutions get a different spin when black folks are carrying them out...
Funny how the teabaggers never bring that up...
Jerry Elea
I spent months there. Pat's observation accurate, and he said;
...the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. (desease and theft are a root problem, they are unimmagineable, medical supplies and food can not be stockpiled) Desperately poor. (every building is substandard and easily colapsed) That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle... ...Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. (turn to honesty, wisdom and integrety) And out of this tragedy, I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now, we're helping the suffering people...
Robertson's organization has been helping Hatians for many years, their efforts yesterday were immeadiate, long befor your man made his way to the tel-e-prompter the day after.
I remember watching Pat one day answering a 'viewers question':
"If God is real, why doesn't He just show Himself to us then we would all believe in Him?"
Now, I was expecting something about free will and Heaven being defined by the visible presence of God but... noooo...
I don't remember the exact words but something to the effect;
"God can't show Himself to us because He is such a terrifying and awesome specter that we would drop dead at the sight of Him."
Wow, wrong dude, Pat. LOL
http://www.patrobertson.com/humanitarian/
I was able to make a donation to the Haitian Health Foundation from a link on Bill O'Reilly's web site, why do they not have similar links here at media matters. They only have a link to donate to themselves. The compassionate left at work.
They are a media criticism site. They aren't supposed to inform the populace like media sites are. And Bill O'Reilly is a MEMBER of the media. MMFA is not.
This is not rocket science, yet you continually bring it up. Why are you so dense?
And I don't know of a single soul on this Earth who is all bad or all good, and so citing some good that Pat Robertson has done doesn't make him not liable for the bad things he HAS done, nor do your allegations of misdeeds against Obama make him all bad! But, black and white non-thinking person that you are, you can't understand this incredibly straightforward issue.
Clear into the 20th Century, the Haitians were sending massive quantities of money to France. You know that beautiful city Paris? A lot of it was paid for with the sweat of Jamaican laborers.
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who went on his Christian Broadcasting Network show and asked for donations claiming that the planes were taking a “medical strike force†to towns in Zaire when in fact the planes were being used to ferry mining equipment?
(One pilot told the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot that of the 40 flights he undertook to Zaire, “only one or at most two†were humanitarian in nature. He said the rest were “mining-related.â€)
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who entered into a partnership with brutal Liberian dictator Charles Taylor to run a gold-mining operation in that war-torn African nation?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who tried to become the main Internet provider in communist China (he said he wanted to be the “Yahoo of Chinaâ€) and tried to open an oil refinery in a poor neighborhood near Los Angeles?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who took a firm that sold home-study Bible courses and converted it into American Benefits Plus, a multi-level marketing scheme that sold coupon books and later moved into vitamins and cosmetics? (Wonder if I can still get “Sea of Galilee†skin care lotion somewhere?) The firm, renamed Kalo-Vita, went belly up in 1995, leaving investors holding the bag. (One 76-year-old retiree told Newsweek she lost $7,000 and had to refinance her home.)
Would that be same Pat Robertson who turned his nonprofit Family Channel into a for-profit enterprise and sold it to that paragon of virtue Rupert Murdoch for just under $2 billion?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who reported in his book, Shout It From the Housetops, that his mother Gladys once had a vision from God of Robertson receiving packets of cash from heaven?!
I could go on, but you get the picture.
The newly greed-averse Robertson holds himself out as being quite the Bible scholar. I recommend he take a quick look at Matthew 7: 3-5.
In the Revised Standard Version, Jesus is quoted as saying this: “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.â€
http://blog.au.org/2009/05/15/the-prophet-and-profits-tv-preacher-pat-robertson-goes-for-the-greed/
As far as the heavens raining money, sounds like that is pretty much what happened.
Let me ask you bilbo_dies...Has God touched you today? Well for $5.95 I'll send YOU absolutely free a touch from God...hehehe!
Maybe before people, especially people such as Pat Robertson who have such a large audience, speak and make such statements, maybe they should ensure they have all the full unbiased factual information pertaining to the situation.
Try to up your comprehension reading skills. The first paragraph pretty much puts the blame on the islanders' devotion to "Satan" then promotes the idea that their demise was stemmed from the original premise. Merely nit picking the second paragraph simply takes the whole crux out of context. Now, go, go, and keep going...
And this weasel calls himself a Christian??
I'm an agnostic who leans atheist and I'M MORE CHRISTIAN THAN PAT ROBERTSON!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's like saying I made a deal with the tooth fairy and Santa Claus didn't like it.. what the hell is this guy talking about?
Breath. Breath...
If there was an earthquake that took out his local tabernacle I am sure that it would have been satan testing his faith in god.
and i miss him q:-( John Denver, that is. Hmmm I miss George Burns, too.
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Anyone got two pieces of wood and some nails?
We've got people on self-described "news" networks passing theology off as fact, and their target audience believes these religious opinions need to be either proven wrong, or accepted.
What's disturbing is that the same feelings-based standards are then applied to non-religious subjects. I was at the Beck/union thread earlier, where another idiot thought he had proven his case (although I never saw an actual "case", except for his/her opinion that unions are obsolete) by paraphrasing and interpreting some quotes about Obama's campaign contributors, and statistics about the number of current union members in the country.
We have a good number of people in this country who have a frightening lack of critical thinking ability. They seem to believe that if they start with an assumption, and can find some data that doesn't seem to disagree with their assumption, that they have proven a fact.
And you're DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE regarding the deplorable state of critical thinking in our country today. That's wny Bob Carroll is one my heroes.
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IMHO
There's nothing inherently right or wrong with liberal, conservative and/or progressive ideology. Most folks aren't 100% of any of these things, most folks are a little bit of all of them.
Read.
Roman Catholicism 101 here. The original sin was not eating an "apple". It was eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In effect, Man wanted to become like God and decide what is right and wrong. Original sin is deciding we know as good or better than God.
You just spoke for Christ. Well, last night he spoke to me and he told me we're all idiots (both dems and that wingnut party). He said he was washing his hands of both of them.
Challenge me on thos same mental progressive diseases you claim. As I am a progressive.
There are dense minds in a heavy world!
SMH!
Thank you, Craig#####. While the rest of us are commenting on a concrete example of this disease exhibited by a wingnut, you volunteered as another wingnut to display the symptoms of the disease.
You say something, with nothing to back it up, and you imagine that's as valid as the documented example above. Well done.
Someone told me today that my sarcasm meter was off, when I know for a fact it was fully functional. ;-)
Democrat: Progressive
Conservative: Backward. Refuses to accept change.
Whats things to remain as they are.
Libertarians: Do not know what they want. They try to ride the Republican coattails saying "What about us?"
Seriously?
"I know you are but what am I?"
What are you, like 5? Do you still have to "ask your parents' permission before logging on?"
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BTW, you are exhibiting the very symptom I'm talking about.
"Unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
But you are mistaken that he said this about his own people. He was, rather, addressing the scribes and Pharisees:
And the reason for this condemnation is because they were acting exactly like Pat Robertson is acting in this clip, CanCanGal.
That is EXACTLY what they have done! That is EXACTLY who they are!
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Amazing that the "bible literalists" always end up with the most absurd "interpretations" of it.
Earthquakes = Satan banging on hell's ceiling with his big pitchfork.
I have a tunnel under my house and I've made sure that no mole people can escape unless I let them. Don't make me open the gate.
And giant lizards near Atlantis? That's preposterous. Atlantis is completely under water and lizards are not able to breath underwater.
I'm a big enough man to admit that I was wrong. Please accept my apology. Even the mole people think I'm an idiot now.
We need to stay on their good side. But Pat Robertson is an idiot. Somebody say, amen.
I guess I did not know that Pat was such a devout Catholic.
This is like connecting Woodrow Wilson to the American Civil War. And it's only the smallest of Robertson's mistake-laden rant.
I always love when these religious nuts look for supernatural reasons for natural disasters. Funny, though, that when churches with congregations inside them are destroyed by tornados, we don't ever hear similar comments.
http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-10-05.shtml
So, Pat -- does that also mean the US made a pact to get free of the British and have been cursed ever since?
Surely the Fallen One was wise enough to have secured an indemnity clause, but I think the people of Haiti may be in a position to sue The Wicked One, were they so inclined to do so, for breach of contract due to the enormous influence of the French culture that remains within their population. They may want to consider consulting a legal firm... or at the very least a wise unicorn.
From Wikipedia
The most historically important Vodou ceremony in Haitian history was the Bwa Kayiman or Bois Caïman ceremony of August 1791 that began the Haitian Revolution, in which the spirit Ezili Dantor possessed a priestess and received a black pig as an offering, and all those present pledged themselves to the fight for freedom. This ceremony ultimately resulted in the liberation of the Haitian people from French colonial rule in 1804, and the establishment of the first black people's republic in the history of the world and the second independent nation in the Americas.
I am completely baffled as to what your question marks mean here. And if you'll look at the post I made earlier, you'll see that I ridiculed Robertson's suggestion and pitied the MMFA staffer that had to listen to Robertson.
Your post was solely motivated by your personal animus. There was no other reason to reply to my post in the way you did. I was answering someone's question.
So yeah, of course you can reply in any way you choose to any post you choose to. There are some things you shouldn't do, but if you want to be foolish, you can certainly continue to make posts based upon your personal animus, which will do nothing good for your credibility here. Please, continue if that's what you want to do! Be my guest. I think hurting one's credibility isn't a good thing, and I think you're a good enough poster that you should rethink that strategy, but if that's what floats your boat, go for it.
I think most popular depictions of Satan as that horned goat-like figure come more from attempts to (literally) demonize Pagan fertility gods than from any description in the Bible.
This is merely one verse that describes what Satan looks like. The horned goat-like figure is similar to Pan, and other pagan fertility gods than any description of the Devil in the Bible, you are quote correct, Col. Harlan Sanders.
"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you."
Do you need everything spoon fed to you?
Always read a verse in context-never remove ir from the rest of the pericope.Ezekiel is prophesying againt the king of Tyre-Phoenicians.
Ezekiel 28:13-17:
The kind of Tyre was never in Eden the garden of God, as verse 13 says. That had long since been closed. He was also not 'an annointed cherub that covered', as verse 14 says, nor did he 'walk up and down in the midst of the stones of fire'. As a fallen man, the king of Tyre could also not have been 'perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created', as verse 15 says. So, clearly we are no longer talking about the king of Tyre directly by verse seventeen of Ezekiel 28, unknown1.
Also note, in vese 28:2, God (through Ezekiel) chastises the Prince of Tyre for claiming to be a god. Since the prince thinks he's a god, does the King of Tyre place himself over gods?
Since, as a Christian, I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit, I have no need of others to interpret the Bible for me. I may, with God's help and wisdom, interpret it for myself. However, I am also fallible, and human, and I do my best to listen to what others say about the Bible and what it says, and then determine if I agree or not.
Then I realized that I did need an accurate interpretation. Who else to turn to but the church that was formed through tradition and understands the people and the context that the letters were written to? They know this because they were there. I'll trust them over myself, and through faith, I will believe it.
I'm not an apologist or anything, but just because I have faith in the church doesn't make me a blind follower. It takes a great amount of humility to accept the things that you may disagree with and have faith that they're right.
I consider my faith to be the most precious gift that was ever given to me.
Next thing you know you'll be accusing me of the spanish inquisition.
The church no longer thinks the sun revolves around the earth. It was a mistake they corrected hundreds of years ago. You make it sound like I'm blindly following an institution that thinks the sun revolves around the earth. A nice twist with a bit of malice thrown in.
Then you accuse me of blind faith. And then you continue to put words into my mouth.
Trying to describe faith to you would be like trying to describe the color green to a blind man. It is a belief in something greater then yourself, it's about humility. I just can't put it into words, I'm sorry.
I did not say whether it was right or wrong, you just put words into my mouth, and hear whatever you want to hear and twist what people say into lies.
If God in HIS bible speaks against false pagan religions then the christian messenger is speaking truth as well, if you do not like it take it up with your bible!
I would agree that it is, but it depends on your perspective.
Col Sanders: he spelled synonymous wrong! Get him!
How do you agree that something is not the same, but immediately add that it depends on your perspective? Seriously, you should try to decide what you think before hitting "save".
Something is not the same because animal sacrifice was attributed to many religions, most notably the ancient hebrews who sacrificed animals to GOD to atone for their sins. So animal sacrifice is not synonymous with devil worship.
My perspective: Anything that is not of God is of the devil. This is outlined very clearly in the new testatment. If you are Christian then you believe this and see that voodoo worship and animal sacrifice is not of God. So in MY perspective, it is devil worship (no matter the intentions of the actual worshippers themselves).
Time to get a clue.
You are right to say from your perspective, from my historical perspective you are imposing your religion on someone else. Voodoo worship is not worshiping the devil.
"Something happened a long time ago in Haiti ... they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever ... and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the Prince. True story." Pat Robertson
"...But is it a true story? We spoke with Andrew Apter, professor of history and anthopology at UCLA, about Haiti's voodoo traditions, the ignorance behind the evangelical community's distortions and the real cause of suffering in the third-world country.
Is there any truth to what Pat Robertson is saying?
Of course not! Haitians are Christians. Pat Robertson's language is the reductio ad absurdum of the Christian right. It's so absurd it's almost funny. This notion of a pact with the devil is basically an echo of an old colonial response to the successes of the 1790s Haitian revolution.
What is this pact he's talking about?
Continue Reading
Part of the revolution mythology is that one of the revolution leaders sacrificed a pig in Bois Caïmin in a voodoo ceremony and made a contract with Petwo [Haitian voodoo spirits]. It may or may not be true, but to call that a pact with the devil is a gross misrepresentation of what voodoo is. It's about anything but the devil. He's imposing an evangelical religious order on a much more sophisticated practice, and he's turning it into a cheap invocation of Satanism.
This is hate speech. It's saying these people are damned. It's a frequent theme among some Christians that Haiti is being punished for this supposed pact with extreme poverty and humanitarian crises. Tragically, many evangelical Christians in Haiti may actually, in their own extreme confusion and suffering and desperation, believe that God is punishing them.
The reason Haiti is poor is because Europe imposed a blockade on trade after the slave revolt in 1804, and you have an extremely polarized class structure in which a few families stepped into the positions of the former colonial plantation owners. There has been a horrible cycle of plundering and autocracy within Haitian leadership.
Why do you think this kind of obsession with Haitian voodoo persists?
There's a fascination with all things voodoo, not only in New Orleans but also on TV, on shows like "Bones," and it stems from the occupation of Haiti by the U.S. Marines in the first part of the 20th century. There were campaigns under certain Haitian governments in conjunction with the church to rout voodoo, but it didn't come close to working, because voodoo is part of everyday life in Haiti.
Do you think this has been holding Haiti back?
I think other factors are more important in holding Haiti back: the class structure, the dispossession of a largely illiterate populace, the links that the underclass increasingly has with drug gangs, which has generated a lot of violence, and the tradition of sweatshop labor. I think the backlash against voodoo is a kind of reflection of the problems, rather than a cause of it."
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2010/01/13/haiti_satan_pact?source=newsletter
As far as a pact with the devil as the cause of poverty in Haiti here is a little tidbit that you should know:
"...But Maggie Koerth-Baker on Boing Boing finds out Haiti's real deal with the devil:
Pat Robertson thinks that Haiti is poverty stricken (and earthquake-stricken) because the country made a deal with Satan to help them overthrow the French.
Back in May, the Times Online provided some slightly better insight into Haiti's past. Beyond a vague assumption that Imperialism had probably screwed Haiti somehow, I didn't know much about the country's history. Reading this story has been nothing short of nauseating.
Summary: Haiti was forced to pay France for its freedom. When they couldn't afford the ransom, France (and other countries, including the United States) helpfully offered high-interest loans. By 1900, 80% of Haiti's annual budget went to paying off its "reparation" debt. They didn't make the last payment until 1947. Just 10 years later, dictator François Duvalier took over the country and promptly bankrupted it, taking out more high-interest loans to pay for his corrupt lifestyle. The Duvalier family, with the blind-eye financial assistance of Western countries, killed 10s of thousands of Haitians, until the Haitian people overthrew them in 1986. Today, Haiti is still paying off the debt of an oppressive dictator no one would help them get rid of for 30 years.
The rest of the world refuses to forgive this debt.
So, in a way, maybe Robertson is right. Haiti is caught in a deal with the devil, and the devil is us..."
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/lets-talk-about-haitis-real-deal-devi
I am not imposing my religion on anyone. I was merely stating what I believe, not telling anyone to do anything.
Once again, Col's thick headedness shows through, I will not dignify his ignorant comment with a reponse.
Like I said: What happens to people, no matter what they do, is out of my hands. I don't need to rationalize everything that happens.
Then you imply that the King James bible is suspect because they threw out some of the books that the Catholic bible contains.
This explains very nicely why so many people think religion is ridiculous. People arguing about what should or shouldn't be in scripture; interpreting passages a certain way and declaring this interpretation "infallible"
Until religious people accept that science and religion are compatible (and some do accept this); religion will be perceived as superstitious nonsense.
Here is a well-written article for starters such as yourself.
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/science/sc0053.html
I gave you a link that will give you a little insight on science and religion.
Now you're talking about spirituality? Honey, I think it's time for you go to back to Woodstock.
This means that science and religion and not incompatible; in fact, for religion to be credible, it must agree with scientific knowledge. (not the prejudices of scientists)
Thanks for the Woodstock complement though. "I came upon a child of God, he was walking along the road..."
Also, this Voodu ceremony and the person who performed it cannot enter by proxy for the entire country of Haiti into a contract with El Diablo without their clear consent.
Let's get serious here for a second... jeesh!
To Pat, that's the girl that got away.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm
Mark Levin?
THis is how you get back at the devil, give your life to Jesus Christ!
http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-10-05.shtml
just when you think how much more wacked-out can he get, he let's us know... i would make a pact with satan to spare us any more first hand accounts of his conversations with god...
Great picture, though.
Hey, you have someone down here "Going Rogue" on you and surprisingly it's not Sarah. Pat Robertson has gone off the deep end..please help him because he's a lying, egotistical bigot!
Thanks!
Fishgirl
Does she agree? I would assume so.
Pat is right only in the sense that Haiti continues in this generational circle of destruction and has never been able to free itself from the deep seated beliefs of the past - one of them being voodoo.
Hey, Haiti's just like the religious right!
You are a sick puppy. & Please do not "pocket" the aid to Haiti.
It was Napoleon... the great Napoleon, whose butt the Haitians kicked.
Does Pat see a quarter-million ex-slaves, freedom fighters, assembled around a fire at night and talking to some creature with horns, making a deal with him/it?
Why does Pat suppose that Haiti is a world away from the country it shares the island with? Surely not abandonment by Europe and exploitation by America.
"full of resorts, etc." = "prosperous"? just asking.
Simplistic understanding of history. Paternalistic notion of spirituality.
American at its worst: using a tragedy to push ancient, ignorant and prejudiced ideas.
About 80 percent of Haitians are Catholic.
Perhaps Robertson has no problem grouping these folks in with all those his God chose to punish.
Historian that you are, please tell us just who the f(_)ck did your God punish for inslaving all those Haitians?
chirp... chirp...
Pat has also convinced me that all the suffering in the world is god's punishment for immoral acts, belief in Satan, man's wickedness, etc, etc.
So I have decided that Pat's negative messages block my positive commune with the Creator and prevent my prayers from being answered. Therefore, the only way for things to get better in the world is for God to strike him dead.
To fast track this, do I pray harder or should I sell my soul to Satan?
Mr. Robertson:
If you're a man of god, which you could not possibly be, then it would be no god I'd want to be associated with. How could you possibly, at the time of the worst suffering of a people, when they have suffered and immense tragedy, pick that time to dump on them? To tell such a ridiculous, unprovable, ignorant story. You should be ashamed. You're an ass of biblical proportions.
Tell us all about God, Jesus and what YOU know. My guess is Jesus is wrapped in a box for you, and you take him out when you feel like it, and when Jesus says something you dont like, you put him back in the box
All throughout history prophets have warned of terrible things to come, or terrible things that take place, you are the morons that got LEFT BEHIND, because of UN BELIEF
How about the fact that Napoleon the Third wasn't in power until 1852, and the Haitian Revolution began in 1791? "True Story" - what is he, a cast member on The Real World?
Also, let it be known that natural disasters occur at a constant rate. Hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, floods, typhoons. I can predict that there will be a typhoon that will hit Vietnam and the Philippines within this decade. Does that make me a prophet or simply someone who understands how nature works and the cycles it takes?
Lastly - and I address this point lastly because quite frankly it is of least importance - when it comes to Religion, the ones who would force it upon others are the ones most likely to be using the parts that they like while ignoring those that they disagree with. Read the book of Matthew, chapter 6 and then look in the mirror. Religion is not the same as faith. If you have faith in Christ you won't spend your time calling those whom don't "Morons" and instead focus on making sure your relationship with God isn't on shaky legs, which, judging by your post, it is.
I figured out some time ago that these wingnuts are the Pharisees of our time. It's this dog pile of hate, fear and ignorance-mongers that is so prevalent here in the Bible belt that helped drive me away from the insanity of the church.
Following the teachings of a man that lived two thousand years ago is fine. However deifying him and then punishing those that don't agree with you is evil.
Thank the founders for the separation of church and state. It helps keep things like the Inquisition away. Of course it's people like Robertson that oppose church/state separation since it keeps them from having more power over us to save our immortal souls.
I once took a political beliefs test online and the results were on a graph that had famous people on it. Jerry Falwell and Osama bin Laden were in the fascist corner with Hitler. I imagine Pat could have been in there too.
It's never fails that these same hypocrites believe every other religion/sect but theirs is wrong or pure evil and oppose big government unless a Republican is in office.
Truth isn't what drives them it's power over others for the sake of money. Pat's bank account is proof.
And I thought Pat was wierd.
You and Pat Robertson sure ain't showin' much.
As for the rest of your statement, you are incorrect. I am a lifelong Christian who attends church every Sunday, sings in the choir, teaches Sunday School, teaches children's choir, participates in mission activities in our community and elsewhere, and is on the board of our church's Family Life community outreach. I live my beliefs, do you?
"defending what?"
"hatred?" Jesus must have 'hated' too, he told the scribes that they were going to hell.
You like God in a BOX with NO ramification for sin.
MD - Puerto Plata - Dominican Republic.
That's just not true.
In 2004, depending on the poverty line used, between 34 to 43 percent of the population were poor, of which from 12 to 16 percent were indigent.
How about say it was not only just the French the Hatitians had problems with Patty! How about tell the truth and say coporations and higher class country oppression has brought down the country. United States included! Plus not everybody has to practice christianity Patty! Especially not your version.
If you are gonna tell a true story Patty. Tell the whole truth.
How are people this stupid popular? Who takes this idiot seriously? People who watch The 700 Club scare me because these morons vote.
Also, you Nazis are supposed to be more anti-Semitic, I'm not sure where your hatred of Christians fits in.
Either way, I don't like right wing Nazi types much, so I don't really care about the nuances of her comments.
No, you prefer LEFT-WING Nazis. That's because you are one!
"Left wing Nazi" is an oxymoron, and you're just a regular moron.
P.S. Nazi punks, f*** off.
I spent months there. Pat's observation is right, and he said;
...the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. (desease and theft are unimmagineable, medical supplies can not be stockpiled) Desperately poor. (every building is substandard and easily colapsed) That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. (turn to honesty, wisdom and integrety) And out of this tragedy, I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now, we're helping the suffering people...
If you read this far... I doubt it. Robertson and his people have been helping Haiti for many years out of their own pockets long before our president found his way to the tel-e-prompter for your too late response to clean up.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pat-robertson-the-standard-in-moral-corruption/168/ .
courtesy of ctd.
There seem to be many points you have trouble understanding. My straightforward one above, as well as the absurdity of somebody making an objective observation about the connection between a nation's troubled history and a devil curse.
But then, you also come from a planet where having a child and running a business are not choices, so this shouldn't surprise me.
Having children is not a choice. Not having children is. I suppose in your pea-brain mind you must think that people are born with condoms.
So we have a situation with two, and only two, possible results; having children, or not having children. This isn't multiple choice, it's as clear cut a dichotomy as there is.
There is no "sort of having children". There's no "having children a little bit". It's one or the other. So, some very simple questions about your interesting premise;
1. Can you think of any other situation in the known world where there is a choice to be made, but there is only one possible choice?
2. Or is the Having children/not having children issue somehow, magically unique in this respect?
3. Are you absolving people like Octo-Mom, or those legendary Welfare Queens with huge litters of children, of any responsibility ? You can't reasonably expect people to be accountable for choices they didn't make.
There are so many more, but you seem to dodge most of my questions to get to your name-calling. If you could start with these, I promise it will be entertaining.
Thanx in advance, Harlan.
Any interference with that natural process is a direct CHOICE.
Octomom also interfered with the natural order of things with her in-vitro fertilization. What she did is just as bad as any direct choice that interferes with reproduction.
That is a whole other category all together.
Now for the name calling: Left-wing loony.
If you could answer my simple and clearly numbered questions, that would be great. Or you could look for another way to weasel out of your ridiculous position.
1, 2 and 3. Should be easy for a brilliant mind like yours.
Tell me this: How rare are cases like octomom and in-vitro fertilization?
You make it sound like EVERYONE who has kids goes to great lengths to make these big choices to have tons of kids and are a huge burden on society. This is far from the truth.
Having kids is the natural progression for a couple. Not having kids is a choice people make.
Do you think you're fooling anybody ? Are you fooling yourself ?
You've made the mistake of saying something less vague than your anti-union pablum here. You should be careful of that, you'll find it's a lot easier to stick to your guns when you don't really have a clear position.
But thanks for playing.
Having kids is the natural progression for a couple. Not having kids is a choice people make.
Unless we're talking about artificial fertilization on the scale of natural fertilization, you have a moot point.
But thanks for playing (yeah, that was mature).
I encourage you to keep making a fool of yourself.
Go bark up someone else's leg.
Your picture says it all: You are a forum Troll. I will no longer feed you.
* May not contain actual logic.
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who used his Operation Blessing charity’s airplanes primarily to transport equipment for a Robertson-owned diamond-mining operation in Zaire (now the Republic of the Congo) called African Development Corporation?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who went on his Christian Broadcasting Network show and asked for donations claiming that the planes were taking a “medical strike force” to towns in Zaire when in fact the planes were being used to ferry mining equipment?
(One pilot told the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot that of the 40 flights he undertook to Zaire, “only one or at most two” were humanitarian in nature. He said the rest were “mining-related.”)
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who entered into a partnership with brutal Liberian dictator Charles Taylor to run a gold-mining operation in that war-torn African nation?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who tried to become the main Internet provider in communist China (he said he wanted to be the “Yahoo of China”) and tried to open an oil refinery in a poor neighborhood near Los Angeles?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who took a firm that sold home-study Bible courses and converted it into American Benefits Plus, a multi-level marketing scheme that sold coupon books and later moved into vitamins and cosmetics? (Wonder if I can still get “Sea of Galilee” skin care lotion somewhere?) The firm, renamed Kalo-Vita, went belly up in 1995, leaving investors holding the bag. (One 76-year-old retiree told Newsweek she lost $7,000 and had to refinance her home.)
Would that be same Pat Robertson who turned his nonprofit Family Channel into a for-profit enterprise and sold it to that paragon of virtue Rupert Murdoch for just under $2 billion?
Would that be the same Pat Robertson who reported in his book, Shout It From the Housetops, that his mother Gladys once had a vision from God of Robertson receiving packets of cash from heaven?!
I could go on, but you get the picture.
The newly greed-averse Robertson holds himself out as being quite the Bible scholar. I recommend he take a quick look at Matthew 7: 3-5.
In the Revised Standard Version, Jesus is quoted as saying this: “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
http://blog.au.org/2009/05/15/the-prophet-and-profits-tv-preacher-pat-robertson-goes-for-the-greed/
Furthermore, stating that Robertson has been helping Haiti for many years out of their own pockets is not only ludicrous, it's also a lie. They don't help anyone with THEIR money.
What an idiot.
See, you miss the point. All y'all miss the point. For PR, every word of the Bible is true...even the words that contradict the other words. God has destroyed cities (see Sodom and Gomorrah). So, it's absolutely no problem for God to cause an earthquake.
Thinking people realize this disaster is the result of a confluence of many things like economy, government, history and geography. Simple minds look for simple answers. PR was just born in the wrong century.
My God isnt like that! What and evil things to say.
Especially the hateful, evil, twisted, vindictive kind preached by Robinson
Very mature, people.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pat-robertson-the-standard-in-moral-corruption/168/ .
Call the grammar police.
Any superflous statements he makes, regardless of context, don't absolve him of his initial evil statement. Period. Got it?
Quit defending evil.
I'll pray for the Haitians....and you.
Pat Robertson has unequivocally compared an anti-slavery movement to dealings with Satan, and that is about as nonsensical and devious as it gets. I'd say that I would pray for him but chances are even God's given up hope.
1) Whether true or not, Pat Robertson did not make up this "pact with the devil" idea. It's been widely reported in multiple sources for years.
2) Pat Robertson clearly has compassion for the people of Haiti and for their ongoing suffering. He is advocating prayers and donations. The abrupt end to the clip shown, when he was obviously going in that direction, is extremely dishonest.
3) Robertson did not say the pact "caused" the earthquake. It appeared to me that he was carefully avoiding affirmatively making that connection while subtly inviting you, the viewer, to connect the dots yourself. He could just as easily have been referring to Karma.
Reading the anti-Christian, idiotic, hateful responses here simply confirms my faith in Christ. Read Matthew 5:11.
PR: The destruction of those devil worshipers was mighty impressive. . . Gave the infidels something to think about I can tell you. You should get a boat-load of new converts after this.
G: Ya. I find that a good whip-ass goes a long way toward getting my point across.
PR: One thing though. . .Why the Haitian cathedral and the archbishop? Come on, give me an exclusive - what did he do wrong? Make a deal with the devil, date little boys, cheat on his taxes, oh wait. . . no taxes, that's right. How could I forget that!
G: Umm. What do you mean? What cathedral?
PR: The largest cathedral in Port-Au-Prince. You know. You flattened it right on the archbishop.
G: Umm. Opps.
Signed,
All True Christians
I mean, if you're going to make up stuff in the name of God, at least get your facts straight. Oh, why start now...
And there's actually still a 700 club? I figured at least 500 of those old douchbags had died by now. Now I'm gonna have to go rewatch the South Park episode where he's asking for donations to equip his spaceship with photon lasers so he can convert aliens to Chrisianity. "Starvin Marvin in space" for those who haven't seen it.
On a more serious note, I am not a bible afficianado, but I belive it says that when Satin comes to the earth you will not know him because he will blind you to his presance. I have to give you props for your blinders Pat. I mean dark lord.
To smear the man would be to lie about the horrible biggoted views this man spewes in the name of Christianity. But this man is so corrupt/racist you don't even have to smear him. He does that himself for any rational thinking person.
So I guess in your views, unknown1, when Dr. Tiller was murdered in his church, that was what God wanted. Blood on his floor. And I guess when the psunami hit Indonesia a couple of years back it was because they are Budist.
Pat's beliefs should be catigorized under domestic terrorism. He's more dangerous than anyone we are looking for in Afganistan.
Well you know what? I want NOTHING to do with your God, Pat Robertson.
If you're shopping for a kind, loving and forgiving God, I've got one for you.
I thought the whole point of God is accessibility, love, forgiveness and acceptance?
And Robertson is wrong. The Dominican is not prosperous. I spent 2 weeks last year volunteering there. They are still miserably poor, it is just that their tourism industry does a good job at hiding it.
http://thegodlessliberal.blogspot.com/
I am an atheist, and I believe myself to be a much better person than this "Christian." The fact that this bigoted filth is allowed on television, the fact that anyone could believe it at all, challenges my faith in so many institutions that I would prefer simply not to think about it.
True, in America we are allowed our free speech, but speech meant to inspire disgust for so many innocent people by calling them satanists is slander, and happens to be illegal. That this man can get away with this, and all the other things he has done, is horrifying.
I was watching the news last night and there are Christian relief agencies down there already like the Salvation Army but this has overwhelmed their abilities. If you look at the "Christian" response, it is coming from the USA, Canada, and other nations in the form of governmental aid. Even the Fairfax County VA Fire and Rescue sent a team down there. I thank Jesus Christ for government.
I wish MMFA would run a clip of BHO and PR's statements together. I wonder at which statement, Jesus smiled and at which one he wept...
Looks at story of Cain and Abel... yeah...
Who's God is Pat thinking of?
Will you say, seeing this heap of victims:
"God is avenged, their death is the payment of their crimes"?
What crimes, what bad things have been committed by these
children,
Lying on the breasts of their mothers, flattened and bloody?
Lisbon, which is a city no longer, had it more vices
Than London, than Paris, given to doubtful delights?
Here is a Christian minister, leader or whatever you call him.
In the eye of the world he's a Christian Terrorist, cause he terrorizes people by his hateful messages.
If you look at the history of Haiti, it is what it is today because of colonialism and many a times they have suffered exclusion from trade and many other things that would have helped them develop.
It is so sad to see that colonialism still exist today. When will developing nations going to be autonomous in the development process, so that someday no-one like Pat will ever make such mean statements. Think before you say a word man. May God and the Haitians forgive you!!
Let us support Haitians for the reason that they are a people, coz they are equal to all of us, coz they are brothers and sisters, and that the tragedy in Haiti could happen any where in the world anytime.
Wishing the surving Haitians all the best.
Finaly Pat has the Guts to say what every one in america has been thinking...If everyone in america is insane.
Did he have a surgery to replace a piece of his brain with Pinapple gelatin?
Look at the video again and watch the woman next to him. She's thinking "holy cow!! not ANOTHER Hugo Chavez type remark!!! The guy must really like the taste of his corns because he puts his foot in his mouth every 6 months or so"
This man has gone over the deep end and is insane. Even the lady who was listening to him flinched in disbelief at his statments. Watch it again.
I'm a Catholic, and even went to Seminary (Brothers of the Holy Cross), and as a Catholic I can say evangelical Christians have got the word of God wrong (so wrong God can't wait to keep them waiting in purgatory...FOREVER). They use the Bible and twist it for the podium instead of the Pulpit. God will judge Pat Robertson for poluting His teachings. Our "Educated Opinion" needs to stop him from being on TV, we have already judged him rightfully.
(Foot note) This guy actualy ran for "Leader of the Free World"? We Americans need to look inward and settle our civil discontent before we institute more foriegn policy.
Reverend J.K. (Deacon)
Haiti was occupied and plundered by the Americans nearly a century ago.
The U.S. Occupation of Haiti:
Woodrow Wilson sent marines to invade Haiti in July 1915 following the assassination of Jean Vilbrun Guillaume Sam, President of Haiti. According to the Department of State, the Marines were sent to the island nation “to restore order and maintain political and economic stability in the Caribbean…this occupation continued until 1934.” In the five years leading up to the invasion, seven presidents of Haiti were either assassinated or forced into exile. Policy makers in the U.S. grew fearful as the unrest and turmoil began attracting German interests. In 1914, the United States assumed control of Haiti’s bank when half a million dollars were removed from the Haitian National Bank and moved to New York “for safe keeping” upon order from President Wilson. This occupation ended under FDR’s “Good Neighbor” policy.
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/mundo/ult94u679672.shtml
Antoine says: “The tragedy there is good for us here, you know. I think that all of that messing around with ‘macumba’ (ie. vodou), I don’t know what that is. The African himself is cursed. Every place that has Africans is f—ked.” The guy obviously didn’t realize that the tape was rolling, but it is still astounding that a Haitian official would make such a comment. It serves as a reminder of the deep conflicts in Haitian society over race, culture, and religion.
Speaking truth to/about progressives with a shout out to Danny G. and his band of merry band of lefties!
As for proud con, I think his post is incoherent enough to leave alone...
If all we can do is sit around and complain about what every one is saying or not saying then whom are we helping?
The Haitian people are in trouble and ONLY God truly knows what they are doing and what they are not doing. NO ONE can judge them. Only GOD can judge. If you can help, help and stop talking about Pat Robertson, that puts you on the same level as him. Just PRAY for the people in Haiti since you seem to care so much. Or better yet send some money or join a group and get over there to help. Every one has their own oppinion and thoughts on every subject and thats good but just be careful that you don't try and force YOUR oppinion on someone else. This would be such a boring world if we ALL agreed and thought the same way, now wouldn't it?
(Some one has to be wrong, and some one has to be right! That's the way it works....Just as EVERY ONE, NO ONE EXCLUDED....YOU WILL REAP WHAT YOU SEW! Good or Bad..it doesn't matter...!)
So don't let anger control you, this is a time when we should stand together and pray far Haiti and every family that is still alive and pray for the families who have lost everything included loved ones!
Jesus, Loves every one. HE suffered, died, & rose again for EVERYONE.....EVERYONE! Yes, I mean EVERYONE! Not just the goody too shoes...so to speak...GOD created us ALL, and loves us ALL the same...No that does not mean that HE will not pour out HIS wrath on evil doers, but that does mean that HE loves us enough to do so!