Fox & Friends: "Jaw-dropping" that U.S. Census has always counted "illegals"
February 23, 2010 7:14 am ET
From the February 23 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
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Once again, though, it's that damn liberal Constitution that...oh, wait, we're supposed to be in favor of the Constitution. Nevermind...
<sarcasm>
how did these idiots think we estimated illegal immigrant population?
Don't they think it's a good idea to try to be as accurate as possible?
Can someone tell me why that term is so "offensive"?
You kid yourself if you deny that conservatives don't have their own strict rules of political correctness.
So, why do we reserve the label "illegal" for those who fail to follow the immigration laws?
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I'm not bothered by termmyself necessarily, but I agree with MMFA's point. The Right seem to be allergic to accurate infomration.
But you just proved my point, the term illegal has nothing to do with their existance in life, only their presence in the US.
But whatever. I'm not particualr pationate about the point one way or the other, but I do think it's telling that MORE CRIMINALS were the first thing that came to mind when you had to come up with an example of Mexicans other than the "illegals" mentioned.
;)
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You do know that there are like a hundered million or more Mexicans in the world that have never commited a crime, don't you?
Also, since many criminals come here illegally, it is more reason for us to get better control of immigration.
And it's not as if there's any demonstrable bias on the part of law enforcement or anything. Bro.
Ba-ba-BAAA! It's STRAW MAN! And his sidekick, Bro Boy!
The Mexicans in U.S. prisons are:
1. dispropotionate to their number in the population
2. overwhelmingly of "illegal" or "undocumented" immigration status
3. predominently incarcerated for involvement in the drug trade
4. a high percentage doing time for slaying people of color
Are these assumptions based on anything other than impressions you have gathered over the years?
Here's what I hate about it.
Look, for instance, at a company like Smithfield, the food processing company. The food processing industry is famous for this. They actively recruit undocumented workers, to the point of sending busses across the border to collect them, while the officials look the other way. Then, of course, anytime there is an economic recession there is, in turn, an anti-immigrant movement and a crackdown.
But is there a crackdown on these companies who actively lured these men and women across the border so they could have the cheap labor? Is there a crackdown on the officials who looked away and let it happen? Of course not. There's a crackdown on the immigrants, the men and women who have been living in this country for years working hard for little money to provide the American consumer with nicely-packaged food.
Smithfield, like other companies, tips off ICE a couple workers at a time, in exchange for there being no immigration raids conducted on their company floor. They hold that threat over their worker's heads, to scare them out of organizing for decent wages and working conditions. So Smithfield's hard-working employees get ICE officials kicking down the doors of their homes, guns drawn, in the middle of the night and tossed, handcuffed into the back of a squad car. Their crime? Being bussed across the border by a company in search of cheap labor.
Do companies like Smithfield get punished for their actions? Do they get disparaged in the media? Do they get labeled as "illegals" and criminalized? Of course not. We save that privelege for the men and women who bust their butts for paltry wages providing services to the American consumer. How kind of us.
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Well done.
In the "hard economic times" why do want to put prison guards out of work? Why do you want to punnish the food services and providers of other goods and services that support these prisons? Spoken like a true conservative: Tough times? LAY MORE PEOPLE OFF.
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Nice plan.
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It's called MACROECONOMICS.
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That's more money for social programs and other jobs. Those guards could get other government jobs with the money freed up.
Nah, you wouldn't understand. You're a lost cause. It's sad that someone who purportedly fought to help save our democracy overseas is so against preserving it here at home.
You have no credibility until you provide the proof. Got it? Good.
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It's called MACROECONOMICS.
That's more money for social programs and other jobs. Those guards could get other government jobs with the money freed up.
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$$$ = $$$
A 2007 report by the Immigration Policy Center said that among men 18-39, which represents the majority of prison inmates, the incarceration rate of foreign born was 0.7 percent while the incarceration rate of native born was 3.5 percent [emphasis mine]
link
As of 2007 you were only off by 29.3 percent.
I wouldn't lie on purpose here. I mean, it's not that serious. Perhaps I was thinking about California.
I'm beginning to form my own impression.
How does this fit into the discussion of whether 200+ years of census policy and the wording of the Constitution should be altered so as to reflect the "correct" demographic? (and, in so doing, to ignore those who are here but you wish they weren't?)
Of course, we both appreciate that "responding to" a question is not the same as answering it.
Also, do you advocate throwing the "illegal" employers who knowingly hire these folks in jail? They are providing incentive for these folks to come to the US, after all. That incentive is illegal.
In the broader sense, although the word is may be technically correct some say that its use is gratuitously pejorative. Picture Sarah Palin's grandson being called a little "bastard" every time his name is mentioned.
Cut out all the niceties...
Stress positions, waterboarding, and sleep deprivation go above and beyond standard interrogation, and qualify as torture, both under U.S. law and according to international treaties we have signed. Calling it enhanced interrogation is just a polite way of avoiding an unpleasant fact.
What's funny is that the standard techniques produce usable intel, while torturing people only provides aid and comfort to the enemy.
There ya have it. The Jack Bauer mindset. Who cares at all about the rule of law, common human dignity, and the constitution.
Indulging in torture may make some feel better but it doesn't work and it diminishes our moral standing. I don't care what other countries think of us as much as I care about the standards we hold ourselves to.
Also, very little useful intellegence has ever been gained by torturing people. There are much more effective means of interrogation. I think we should insist on letting the professionals do their jobs.
P.S. no torture...
Aid and comfort? Doesn't sound that bad to me.
THEY JUST KILL OUR GUYS, OK! THEY CUT THEIR FREAKING HEADS OFF!
Equality before the law is part of what makes America great. A country where even an ignorant bigot like Rush Limbaugh still has freedom of speech. Adhering to our laws, upholding our standards of right and wrong, become the most important when the risks and downsides are the highest. Bush/Cheney folded under pressure and resorted to un-American behavior because they are both cowards, and neither are leaders. Want an example of leadership? FDR, when he reminded America that all we had to fear was fear itself, because it leads to bad decisions. Bush/Cheney did everything they could to maintain high levels of fear, including ramping up the color-coded threat level just before elections.
If you agree with just cutting off heads rather than abiding by our laws, then I suggest you go ahead and join al Qaeda. You already agree with their view of morality.
Thank God that you are not within my reach. No, seriously, you should be on your knees thanking the Lord above.
Wow. That is it. I can't believe it.
What kind of partisan piece of filth does it take to give thumbs down to a link to US soldiers being beheaded!?!?
Heck, more soldiers were killed by friendly fire than were beheaded by the evil brown people.
Your anger is irrational and misplaced.
Your anger is again, irrational and misplaced.
HA!!! You've been going off on this beheading rant when there actually haven't been any beheadings. What nighttime story has your mommy been telling you?
Wow.
I fail to see how our anger and frustration should dictate how we conduct interrogations. Don't you want us to win?
When I was in Iraq, our medics were treating Iraqi victims who had their LIPS CUT OFF for not praying the way the insurgents wanted them to.
Also, OUR SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS ARE WATERBORDED AS PART OF THEIR TRAINING! Believe me, our guys would rather be waterborded when the alternative is getting something cut off.
Make a note of it.
And, for the billionth time, torture does NOT produce good intelligence. And it's illegal. And unethical. And unconstitutional. And un-American. And un-Christian.
Just ask Powell or Petraeus. Are they liars?
Sorry, but there is NO comparison between waterbording and dismemberment.
So you can cut the crap, unless you care more about MURDEROUS RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS WHO THROW ACID ON LITTLE GIRLS WHO WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL than you do about living fetuses.
there you go.
Equality before the law is part of what makes America great. A country where even an ignorant bigot like Rush Limbaugh still has freedom of speech. Adhering to our laws, upholding our standards of right and wrong, become the most important when the risks and downsides are the highest. Bush/Cheney folded under pressure and resorted to un-American behavior because they are both cowards, and neither are leaders. Want an example of leadership? FDR, when he reminded America that all we had to fear was fear itself, because it leads to bad decisions. Bush/Cheney did everything they could to maintain high levels of fear, including ramping up the color-coded threat level just before elections.
If you agree with just cutting off heads rather than abiding by our laws, then I suggest you go ahead and join al Qaeda. You already agree with their view of morality.
Waterbording is not the same as dismemberment! Do you understand?! CUTTING SOMEONE'S BODY PARTS OFF BECAUSE THEY ARE AN INFIDEL IS NOT THE SAME AS WATERBORDING TO GET INFORMATION TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS.
Go and join al Qaeda. You already support their methods. Torture has a long and storied history of utterly failing to provide any useful or actionable intelligence or information. Know how I know? Because Cheney would've leaked any such to the press, first chance he got, in order to support his policy. Torturing people to save people? I think you are the one lacking reason.
They don't. Only Cheney and his lackeys Feith, Bibee and Yoo did. We wasted untold resources chasing non-existent threats because, you know, people being tortured will SAY ANYTHING to make it stop.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
Also, you seem very scared of the terrorists. Do you know what the goal of Al Queda is? I'd really like to know.
I rest my case. Ignorance is NOT bliss, Mr. Dork.
Besides, who gets to decide who is a "MURDEROUS RELIGIOUS ZEALOT"? If I accuse you of being a MURDEROUS RELIGIOUS ZEALOT, can I get someone to torture you just on my say-so? You are advocating that we dismantle centuries of civilization because you are really really disgusted and angry.
It was a HYPOTHETICAL assertion. He was saying what the president COULD DO, in his legal opinion, using the extreme example of stepping on testicles to demonstrate the lengths to which he thought the president could go.
It doesn't matter why, k1dork. The circumstances? Irrelevant. The ends? Unimportant. It is wrong, and we were wrong as a country to allow this travesty to happen in our name. Bush and Cheney should both be facing war crimes tribunals.
But no, I would not be OK with kids having their testicles stepped on, period. I am OK with waterbording, sleep deprivation, and pimp smacking.
have fun on your road to hell
The mythical potency of terrorism fear-mongering
k1dork is obviously picking-and-choosing what laws should be obeyed. Case in point, we should be allowed to call immigrants "illegals"
Quote:
Actually, if they are here illegally...THEY'RE ILLEGAL!
However, torture is illegal but it's okay to overlook such a thing because even though we a re a nation of laws, it is okay in some circumstances to be unlawful.
Quote:
No, because I disagree, especially because the is NO comparison between the methods they use and the methods we use.
Again, k1dork is being hypocritical.
We may find out that it worked closely with Jack Bauer soon, or that it shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
Not hard to see that I'm a black guy who was in the Army.
Our brave fighting men are known for their resilience.
That's my claim. So what?
Deal?
Really? I hadn't heard that that was happening. Could you provide a link that tells how our guys were stepping on infants?
peace4all Quote:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11488.htm
there you go.
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foghornleghorn Quote:
How many of our soldiers have been beheaded? Really, I want to know because I haven't heard of any. With links/proof, please.
k1dork Quote:
How about you google it.
Again, k1dork is being hypocritical.
You supported the crimes that lead to this horror. You are as guilty as those who committed it.
While we're on the subject, "waterboarding" sounds too much like a sport. I propose that it be renamed the "Spanish Water Torture".
(No offense to Spain but it was a favored technique of the Spanish inquisition.)
<Sounds pretty offensive doesn't it? But probably true.>
BTW, is Sarah Palin's little bastard grandson getting government assistance?
Do you think children who cannot help being born with a disorder are bastards? Or do you just hate people who actually care for them?
And...children born with disorders? What are you talking about? Sarah Palin's little bastard grandson is, as far as I know, a normal, healthy child.
Speaking of definitions, Einstein, perhaps you may wish to refer to a dictionary for the meaning of the word "bastard".
Id like for you to show me what your citizenship status has to do with being a drug dealer.
I know what bastard means. My question is what does that have to do with a child? Or do you think that about all children? Or are you one of those sick people who hate someone so much that you would insult their children because of it? Are you David Letterman?
Hahahahaha, that's rich!
Why is it okay to provide government healthcare for gov. employees, NNAs,the elderly, and veterans but not the rest of us? Why does a 65 year old person who may or may not have contributed to society deserve healthcare more than my six year old daughter?
Sure, I have nothing against healthcare assistance for people who truly can't afford it, but if you are able bodied, take care of your six year old yourself.
So again, I ask, what are the criteria that allow for healthcare for some and not all?
P.S. My daughter doesn't have a job.
Reinhard
If I let my car's registration tags expire, am I an illegal citizen ?
No they aren't. Quit playing that violin. They should be counted as being in the country for a proper tally of total people in the country...but they should not be counted towards the redrawing of lines for congressional districts. Doing so nullifies the presence of another legal US citizen elsewhere.
1. Legal immigrants that have lost their immigration documents
2. Legal immigrants that have lost their drivers licenses
3. Legal immigrants that have had their documents stolen
That's just 3 meanings off the top of my head. The terms "illegal alien", "illegal immigrant", or "illegals" lets the viewer know right away that the people being discussed are people who are in the U.S. in violation of U.S. law.
In fact the term "undocumented immigrant" in this context can leave out a whole group of people that are in the U.S. illegally and have stolen identities and the documentation to go with them.
I hate that the Democratic Party pretty much OWNS the black vote, because I think it leads to a lot of nothing getting done for black people because the Dems don't need to earn their vote.
It's just not good for people to be counted on to vote one way. The politicians don't have to EARN their votes in that case. Understand?
"Sorry that your neighborhoods are still crime infested war zones after decades of voting for us, but we're really trying."
Now you say:
All politicians try to keep all voters voting a certain way with that tactic and others. So explain why you think it's so unusually effective--for 40 years--on blacks and not other voters. Go ahead. It's your theory. Explain. You ARE black, right???
Politicians are always playing on people's fears. This is nothing new and it happens from both Dems and Reps. The difference is in their audience. I think most people, regardless of their skin color, are mature and intelligent enough not to blindly buy into it. There are exceptions, like the teabaggers, but as a recent poll showed, most Americans either don't now who they are or don't care who they are.
Politicians who want to keep working class whites voting a certain way use propaganda and rhetoric that demonizes Democrats to such a degree that working class white voters vote straight Republican, whether the Republicans perform well for them or not. Working class whites are not unintelligent or mindless, but politicians play on fears to get them to vote in their favor.
k1dork
well, by comparison. white trash has been voting for republicans for years and the trailer parks are as crappy as ever.
The fact is that the vast majority of blacks, somewhere in the 90th percentile, vote Democrat, and little has really improved in the black community.
Perhaps you should seek to be the change you seek.
It's insane for you to imply that, in the past 40 years, there has been no progress in within the black community. The rates of African Americans who graduate from high school and college has significantly increased, great strides have been taken to close the income gap between black families and their white counterparts. As I indicated above, there are far, far, far more black members of middle-class American than there have ever been in the past.
Poverty still exists in America. Poor White America still exists, and poor Black America still exists. I don't believe that democrats have ever promised to end black poverty in a generation. But the "ghettos" do not represent the entire state of black America.
Basically, personal responsibility deals with minorities doing what is right and legal. Government responsibility should be ensuring that minorities have access to decent jobs and safe communities.
I think true conservatives would be for keeping jobs in America, which would keep access open to minorities as well.
I don't think that's a conservative or liberal issue at all. I think its common sense and everyone wants that. I think the problem is setting different standards for different people...that's not equal access, its preferred treatment.
I'm thinking nothing will ever change for the better as long as we're separated by these idiotic partisan labels.
Then calm down and stop ladling out the poison. We may be in greater agreement than you imagine.
So why allow them to partake in the redrawing of congressional districts?
There's the rub, those immigrants, legal or otherwise, are working and paying taxes in that district. They deserve to be represented, even if they can't vote for that representation. Remember one of the reasons for the Revolution was that whole "No Taxation Without Representation" thingy.
If you want to talk about taxation without representation, how about the district of columbia?
Man, it's really got to suck to be you. You sound absolutely miserable.
Notice it states all "Free Persons" and makes no mention of citizenship.
They do it every time the Census kicks off. They do it b/c if they scare enough people into not completing their census forms, then the government never gets an accurate look at the demographics in this country. Without a proper count, funding for programs like helping the poor, rebuilding infrastructure in areas particularly hard hit, etc. will be insufficient.
A few evenings ago, I came home to a flyer in my mailbox for part-time positions as census takers. I'm seriously considering applying, and seeing if they have evening hours available..
I live in a very Republican area, and there's an Army Navy surplus store near me where I could pick up a vintage uniform, maybe even a foreign one. I'd have to check the rules and dress codes if I apply, but I'd like to make a tinfoil hat to go with it. It could be a lot of fun.
Look, for instance, at a company like Smithfield, the food processing company. The food processing industry is famous for this. They actively recruit undocumented workers, to the point of sending busses across the border to collect them, while the officials look the other way. Then, of course, anytime there is an economic recession there is, in turn, an anti-immigrant movement and a crackdown.
But is there a crackdown on these companies who actively lured these men and women across the border so they could have the cheap labor? Is there a crackdown on the officials who looked away and let it happen? Of course not. There's a crackdown on the immigrants, the men and women who have been living in this country for years working hard for little money to provide the American consumer with nicely-packaged food.
Smithfield, like other companies, tips off ICE a couple workers at a time, in exchange for there being no immigration raids conducted on their company floor. They hold that threat over their worker's heads, to scare them out of organizing for decent wages and working conditions. So Smithfield's hard-working employees get ICE officials kicking down the doors of their homes, guns drawn, in the middle of the night and tossed, handcuffed into the back of a squad car. Their crime? Being bussed across the border by a company in search of cheap labor.
Do companies like Smithfield get punished for their actions? Do they get disparaged in the media? Do they get labeled as "illegals" and criminalized? Of course not. We save that privelege for the men and women who bust their butts for paltry wages providing services to the American consumer. How kind of us.
From what I saw, either there's simply a great many Legal Immigrants that happen to work in that concentrated area, or claims of their hiring of Illegal Immigrants is an EXTREME understatement. Pretty much everyone walking around the outside of the factory, or taking their break in large groups, was of obvious Hispanic decent.
What is this Shangri-La you speak of ??
http://www.snorgtees.com/baconmakeseverythingbetter-p-757.html?gclid=CKXRlemtiaACFSEVswod-B723g
PLEASE LIST FOR ME who are here ILLEGALLY ie MEXICANS:
1
2
3
4
and so on