Hannity on health care reform: "It's like giving the American people the middle finger"
March 11, 2010 11:41 pm ET
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This is not democracy. As Michele Bachmann said, "This is gangster government." We are being governed by thugs. Pelosi is governing the House as a Don governs the mafia.
The Dems don't care about what the people want -- they are giving us the finger.
What you don't say is what specifically you don't like about reforming health care in this country.
As a policy arguement, government involvement has never increased quality or lowered price in any field -- ever.
It is not my responsibility to pay for your healthcare. The current proposal will raise prices and lower quality. It will make seeing a doctor more difficult.
We have a deficit of $14 TRILLION dollars. Amidst this, Obama propooses a new trillion dollar entitlement plan?!?!?!
I lived in England for five years and am acutely aware of the horrors of a government run system. I realize you will reply that this bill as constituted is not a single payer system, but it is clearly putting us on a path toward that end. Barney Frank has said so in basically those exact words.
The bill is dishonest. THe Dems say it will cut the deficit. You are beyond naive if you believe this. It factors 10 years of taxes and revenues versus six years of spending. THe "benefits" (and I use that term loosely do not kick in until four years from now.
This is akin to you planning to make $100K for the next ten years. Since you will make $1 million in this span, you spend $166.667 per year for the next six years. That is fine as it is, but what happens for the four out years? This is dishonest.
This does not factor the doctor fix. Why are the Dems taking this off budget. They whined and moaned when GWB took Iraq & Afghanistan off budget, why are they taking the doctor fix off budget -- this is rank hypocrisy.
This bill is not about cost containment (which is the real problem with healthcare). It does NOTHING to contain costs. It is about increasing the size and scope of government. If Dems cared one whit about cost containment, they would support measures such as portability, high deductible policies, purchasing across state lines, and yes tort reform. As Dr. Tom Coburn said many tests are run for the benefits of doctors rather than pateints. Doctors run many unncessary and costsly tests for CYA reasons because they fear a John Edwards ambulance chaser-type suing them.
Look at Texas. They reformed lawsuit abuse, and doctors flocked to TX. You can find an OB/Gyn ina rural TX town because they are not paranoid about being sued. Defensive medicine costs us hundreds of billions. If you care at all about cost containment, this is one obvious place to start. Do the Dems do this?!?! Of course not, the bill is not about healthcare, it is a power grab.
That is why I oppose this monstrosity of a bill. How is that for specifics?
From the preamble to the Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
One of the goals of the constitution is to promote the general welfare of the citizens. Health care for all would promote the general welfare of the citizens. Not to mention the fact we already have socialized medicine for seniors, the poor, and our veterans.
Who says he's trying, Mescal -- he's SUCCEEDING!
Well, as you wingnuts love to say... PATHETIC!
On to your issue of whether the Preamble can be cited. Courts have used the Preamble to determine the bounds set by the framers and to determine the policy reasons underlying certain phrases and provisions within the Constitution. Ultimately it depends on who you consider to be a legal scholar. If you accept that a judge is a legal scholar (even an federal circuit court judge), then you lose this argument because they have cited the Preamble as guidance for the provisions set out in the Constitution.
Article 1, Section 9 - Limits on Congress
"No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time."
Basically, Congress can never, ever spend any money, except when it passes a law and must publish what it spent it on and what it cost. That means that Congress can buy everyone ice cream if can pass a law to do so and reports reciepts and expenditures.
Maybe you should read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.
All of this wailing and nashing of teeth is just another way to say NO. TOO BAD, your peeps did nothing. Now, we have a chance to do something..get it started and then fine tune the product. What is wrong with that?
Don't worry JinnyBoy this is not England or Canada. But may I ask, do you know anyone in the awful position of having worked a lifetime to achieve the American Dream only to lose everything due to an illness which caused them to lose eveything they had because by not working, they lost their HealthCare? And then ask why the Repubs couldn't see this 15 years ago?
Guns, Bibles and Abortion blah, blah, blah...the Repubs do nothing and people like you are too blinded by the white that you cannot see beyond your anger toward yourself.
My rallying cry for the Cons is TOO BAD!!!!!! You ruined this country and YOU ARE NOT getting it back.
I believe heathcare COST (and only cost) is a problem with a lowercase "p". We have far more pressing problems.
There are cost containment measures we can take (which I delineated above), but the Dems have no interest in this. They do not care about cost containment (or even healthcare for that matter). This is about seizing 1/6 of our GDP. They care about increasing the size and scope of government. THis is a government power grab pure and simple.
If the Dems want to discuss cost containment, we can have that discussion. But if the Dems are simply tryint to make a power grab, conservatives will right them tooth and nail.
I would really like to see you walk into a FedEx store or UPS store and ask them how far they will send a letter for you for 44 cents.
Seeing as how the entire USPS system is bunk - operating at a loss and being subsidized by taxpayer dollars on top of that - you can bet that $0.44 letter really costs about $3.00 to send.
Is that how YOU would run a business skip?
Actually, like you, I lived in a country with a single payer government-run healthcare system (for nearly 20 years). I actually prefer this system for a number of reasons and it's why I'm disappointed that we didn't just bite the bullet and go in this direction. Unlike you, I'm disappointed with the legislation because it does not go far enough.
You mentioned cost containment and for a moment I thought maybe you were about to argue for universal healthcare since it's a great way to contain costs. But you are right, eventually we'll have some kind of single payer system and I hope I'm around long enough to see that happen.
Much of what you wrote I'd disagree with, but I doubt I'll ever change your mind just as you'll never change mine. But thank you again for giving us a better understanding of where you stand. This was much more informative than your first post.
"But you are right, eventually we'll have some kind of single payer system and I hope I'm around long enough to see that happen."
I have never advocated a single payer system. Thank you to you as well for your willingness to engage on the issues. Although I disagree with you, I respect your position and appreciate your sharing your perspective.
But those 4 parts are miniscule compared to what they are trying to push in these bills. You can pass 3 of those sections without spending a dime. People don't want to spend $1T, with major tax and fee increases just to subsidize health insurance for people. THAT is the truth. Nothing is going to drive down the skyrocketing costs - not even spending $1T.
Same with tort reform. It has already been enacted in several states (including here in California), and has yet to see even the teeniest of drops in the premiums paid by consumers... and has not even subtly slowed their increase. It has merely served to further shield abusive corporations from the consequences of their predations.
I dare anybody to answer these questions.
"What does it say that the American polity has consistently rejected a wholesale government takeover of health care for 100 years?"
What it says is that the conservative false propaganda establishment is very powerful in America. Just the fact that a massive number of people falsely think that the bill is a wholesale takover of health care is proof of that. Not even France or Canada have government run health care. They have government run health insurance (single payer) with private hospitals and doctors. England is one of the very few countries with government run hospitals with government doctors.
Conservatives were claiming the public option was governement takeover of health care. But that would be like claiming that the USPS is a government takover of mail putting FedEx and UPS out of business. Social Security must be a government takeover of retirement plans putting Merril Lynch and Prudential out of business. I'm still waiting for public libraries to put Borders and Netflix out of business. I also wonder when State Universities will kill off Stanford and Harvard.
The public option is a step towards government takeover. Not you or anyone else can deny that. Everything the government runs is highly subsidized to hide the true costs and massive inefficiencies. This would be no different.
The USPS is a perfect example of what we can expect from a public option. Highly subsidized, ever increases rates, operating at massive losses...and at the end of the day, rationing services by cutting off delivery days, raising prices even further, and admitting that the government has absolutely no idea of how to run an efficient business like the private sector.
Social Security was never meant to be a full retirement account, you know this. It was never meant for someone to live on it by itself. It was for a hedge against inflation after you retire. The problem is that people now know they will no longer get out of it what they put into it - that its a required redistribution of wealth scheme. Taxpaying citizens have had enough of this debauchery - something you just can't seem to get a grasp on. You really don't think the taxpayers have caught on to your your guilt trip of "social justice" and "moral standards" as a disguise of movement towards a welfare state resulting in equal benefits, regardless of input?
Wise up Skip, the the gig is over.
Bobby Jindal fan
I am still waiting to see your FACE!
Please , post your IMAGE!
I enjoy reading your posts, it is hard to pick you out of all the other blue Gs!
This whole issue is a false talking point, anyway. The cost of med-mal represents about 2% of the nation's health care costs.
I do not belive 25% are uninsured either, but for purposes of discussion how many of those 25% are illegal aliens? If they are illegally here, let them return from whence they came and receive their healthcare there.
BTW, you are incorrect about Texas. Most small towns here are lucky to have a doctor of any kind. I might add that many DEFENSE attorneys were opposed to the tort reform which was passed here because they saw the cap as a denial of rights to the injured parties. Prior to the cap, it was already extremely difficult for a physician to be sued. It has saved NO MONEY for the doctors. Their med-mal insurance continues to rise and so do health care costs.
Before spewing your ridiculous talking points you should look them up. They make you look even more foolish and ignorant than you probably actually are.
I seem to recall the American people overwhelmingly opposed to Republican leadership in the last election. The same guys that shoved a war down out throats and that used nefarious procedural tricks to enact over a trillion dollars in tax cuts that exploded the deficit. The same guys who gave New Orleans the finger. The same gangsters that engaged in illegal wiretapping and politicized the Federal justice system.
The Dems don't care what YOU want. I am giving you the finger!
True. And it taking Obama 1 year to do what took Bush over 4 years to do. What an achievement! lol
So the owners hire a new manager to repair the property and restore its market value and its profitablity.
Then the owners get the bills for repairs, the estimates for future maintanence, and funds necessary for replenishing the escrow account. The owners look at their current mindboggling escrow deficits and the additional debt necessary for restorations. They now want to accuse the new manager of malfeasance and say he is liable for all damages and costs for restoring the property. They protest that the new management has become twice as costly as the former manager.
They now want to re-hire the old manager.
You better stock up on guns, gold and God. "They" are coming to get you.
Fear interferes with your ability to be rational. You need to learn how to divorce emotion from logic, and think for yourself, instead of letting your emotions control you.
I don't know if you know this but third world countries tend to have little or no social infrastructure.
he also has to include, willful ignorant and conformist of republican lies
besides what's wrong with giving the ignorant american people the middle finger, its free speech right, or has our rights been changed by the american empire
Why do you seek to trash the author of the Declaration of Independence, BJ fan? What is it that you wingnuts have against our founding fathers?
You mean the rich white capitalistic republican ignorant american morons don't want this, you probably have health care, others don't especially harding working middle class and this is their chance to get health care and its people like you how are trying to stop them, so STFU you insignificant insect!
"This is gangster government." We are being governed by thugs.
Oh is that because Barrack Obama, a BLACK MAN is president, your a racist just like the rest of them, shut up for all our sake!
The Dems don't care about what the people want -- they are giving us the finger.
the democrats that actually support obama and trying to make an effort (not the conservative democrats that don't support him) and what have the republicans done besides fraked up the economy, put us through another war, give me one HONESTLY good deed republicans did!
The only people who want this bill are the ones who will get subsidized health insurance, and more stuff for free. The people who don't want it are the ones who have to pay for it. Get over it bug man.
LOL you people crack me up. Never pass up a chance to yell "racist!". Thugs in Chicago were white gangsters taking over the political system. You should really know what you're talking about before you start with the race baiting.
Good deed? You act as if the government is supposed to be a charity for the poor with everyone else's money. Actually, I have no doubt that's what you want it to be.
Whenever someone calls me a racist, I accept it as confirmation I have won the debate.
If it were my choice, I would fire every public school teacher and hire them back if they sign a pledge not to join a union.
Catholic school students in NY (and I would imagine most other cities) run circles around public school kids, despite the fact that Catholic schools spend about half as much in terms of per pupil spending.
Catholic school teachers aren't unionized and they don't have middle managment bureaucratic costs.
If public schools faced competition from Catholic schools (in the form of vouchers for those who can't afford the tuition), the students would benefit. The union wouldn't benefit, but is our educational system run for the benefit of unions or students?
And how would you plan to fix teaching standards with this "unionized teachers only" cannard?
God forbid you ever became Director of the DOE of New York.
"The only people who want this bill are the ones who will get subsidized health insurance, and more stuff for free. The people who don't want it are the ones who have to pay for it. Get over it bug man."
Your point is? So what pay for it don't bitch and whine about paying for it to me ya prick.
"LOL you people crack me up. Never pass up a chance to yell "racist!". Thugs in Chicago were white gangsters taking over the political system. You should really know what you're talking about before you start with the race baiting."
you people? you know you white folk can't pass up a chance to say that can you? and the white gansters you refer to well, their still large and in charge you may think their not but they are
"Good deed? You act as if the government is supposed to be a charity for the poor with everyone else's money. Actually, I have no doubt that's what you want it to be."
well i thought the government was to work and exsist for the people and further their prosperity, oh yeah that doesn't include all the other races, just white rich americans sorry how delusional was i? and "everybody elses money" aww boo-woo your government is your money, wake up you moron and join the rest of us, better yet don't join us, when america goes to hell go ahead and join them.
And no $h1t the constitution doesn't mention reconciliation. It also doesn't have a single mention of a filibuster either. I think the original intent was majority rule aka what we now know as reconciliation which is EXACTLY what the republicans used four times while GWB was in office. Hannity is as dense as he is dumb.
i know some parts of the constitution can be difficult to understand but that is pretty darn clear.
1) Don't really understand the Constitution.
2) Don't really understand the issue at hand.
3) Don't have a rational answer for why they think the Democrats are doing something harmful.
"That's unconstitutional!" A platitude for all occasions. I suggest sprinkling "That's unconstitutional!" on your cork flakes, Sean, or sprinkling it in your weed and feed lawn care products. Feed it to your cat. Three alternate uses that prevent you and Fox News from looking so infernally stupid.
Randy
House is Dem controlled: Repub's. need not show up.
Senate Dems HAD super majority: Again, Repub's needed not show up.
The Constitution say's the Gov shall provide for our general welfare. Dems Definition/Meaning: The Gov SHAll give us all the medical care we need. (Definitly out of context)
Where is MY HEALTH CARE?????????????????????????????
Health care has passed both houses of Congress. the Senate "Dems" passed it with a supermajority in December. What the President will sign is the Senate Health Care bill after it is passed by the House [that's how bills are made into law.] After the bill is made into law, the Senate and the House will meet to "reconcile" the health care law with amendments recommended by the House and the Senate. That bill will be voted on by both houses, with only a simple majority required. The reconciled bill will be sent to the President for his approval.
That's how our legislature has ALWAYS worked.
Healthcare is a moral issue, like Ms. Powers says, and yet somehow this is totally lost on this unsympathetic man.
When this woman pointed out that Bush stood by his convictions during his push for an unpopular war… he was praised by conservatives, Hannity, also known as “Klannity” by those who knows his deeds, just said “no, no, no” before giving another one of his cop-out excuses.
This complete liar is the devil personified. He doesn’t give a damn about the American people.