Limbaugh again suggested Hillary Clinton had Vincent Foster murdered
On the September 19 and 20 broadcasts of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh resurrected his scurrilous suggestion that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) had then-deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster murdered while she was first lady. Media Matters for America has documented previous instances (here and here) of Limbaugh insinuating that the Clintons were involved in the death of Foster, who committed suicide in Northern Virginia's Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993.
On the September 19 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show, Limbaugh claimed that after anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan criticized Sen. Clinton for her support of the Iraq war, "Somebody has gotten to [Sheehan] and said, 'Do the words 'Fort Marcy Park' mean anything to you?' I will guarantee you, my friends, that by the time all is said and done -- if she calls [Clinton] out one more time -- that's it for Cindy Sheehan."
The following day, Limbaugh reiterated this claim, stating that Sheehan "will not mention [Clinton] again, ladies and gentlemen, unless she wants to end up in Fort Marcy Park. Mark my words on it."
From the September 19 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: She [Sheehan] had, she had tough words for the military, the Bush administration, and even Democratic liberals such as Hillary Rodham [sic], whom she said voters should "reject" if she fails to toughen her stance against the war. She said, "We have to stop making war profitable."
She also took issue with the media, which she said has spent more time scrutinizing her past than Bush's policies. The woman's clearly deranged, and I say that not because of the statement about the media but daring to criticize Hillary. If she's not careful -- let me, let me just make you a prediction: If she calls Hillary out one more time -- one more time -- you are never going to see the words "Cindy Sheehan" in the U.S. media ever again.
I will guarantee you she's already had the talking-to. Somebody has gotten to her and said, "Do the words 'Fort Marcy Park' mean anything to you?" I will guarantee you, my friends, that by the time all is said and done -- if she calls her out one more time -- that's it for Cindy Sheehan. No matter how hard you try, you will not be able to find her name except on some extremist, kook, left-wing blog.
But you won't find it anywhere in the mainstream press. You just don't do this. You don't call out Hillary Rodham Clinton. You don't call out a Clinton like this. Not, not when you're supposedly on their side.
From the September 20 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: Time for another big-time El Rushbo, "See, I told you so!" Yesterday, I read a story about Cindy Sheehan in which she called out Hillary Rodham [sic] and said that Mrs. Rodham [sic] would soon be changing her mind on troops in Iraq and be demanding that they come home. And if she didn't, she might live to regret it, or words to that effect.
I said, "You don't say this about Hillary Clinton. You don't say this." I said, "By the time this story was published and Mrs. Clinton heard about it, operatives of Mrs. Clinton will have gotten to Cindy Sheehan, and she will never, ever mention Hillary's name again."
So, The New York Times today: "In an anti-war speech by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of an American soldier killed in Iraq, was cut short yesterday after the organizer of the event was arrested and police officers confiscated his audio equipment.
"Mrs. Sheehan has not shied away from controversy, opening her New York visit on Sunday night in Brooklyn, by accusing Senator Hillary Rodham [sic] of failing to challenge the Bush administration's policies in Iraq. Ms. Sheehan, who did not mention Ms. Clinton yesterday..." Da, da, da, da, da, da, da and she will not mention her again, ladies and gentlemen, unless she wants to end up in Fort Marcy Park. Mark my words on it.
He's also denied, on at least one occasion, ever making such allegations.
Am I reading this correctly? Moreso than repeating the lie about Vince Foster, Is Limbaugh calling for someone to assasinate Cindy Sheehan??
If this is the case.....
Is Limbaugh calling for someone to assasinate Cindy Sheehan??
No.
One more thing - I apologize for my previous post - I went back and re-read the article, so he's saying that if Sheehan criticizes Hillary, someone will kill her (Sheehan)
I've read plenty of criticism of Hillary from the right wing noise machine, how come none of them have wound up dead?
Methinks once again Limbaugh is full of it..
spin,
My guess it that Rush is speaking figuratively. He is saying Sheehan, by critizing Hillary, is committing political suicide.
I am guessing Rush is saying that if Sheehan continues her criticism of Hillary, the media on the left will characterize her, (much like the media on the right already has), as a kook and extremist. Her usefullness to the left will be finished and so will she (politically speaking).
My feeling is her 15 minutes of fame is over.
ps. God bless her son and my heartfelt condolences for her loss.
anotheramerican,
Agree - this is another example of muchado about nothing......it is just more red meat for many here to haul their Oxycontin jokes, or Limboob slams or whatever else makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. These are such non issues, totally irrelevant to anything substantive regarding issues or misinformation.
MMFA is doing itself a disservice if they continue to highlight this sort of drivel.
Is there anything that Rush could say that would be over the top for you? Sure, there are many here that use hyperbole and such when Rush comes up. Why not give them the same considerations you do Rush? They are jsut posters on the board so what's the big deal?
People say stuff that is over the top all the time, here and everywhere - the whole point is if you continue to acknowledge it, much less get all worked over it, it only validates it's effectiveness. Is that really what you want to do? I don't think so.
Stuff like this is better left ignored, where it dies quickly. Highlighting it only gives it more life and publicity.
I would say that ignoring it let's it fester into a bigger problem. The Clintons and America ignored it for years but it is still being used to blugeon them. Also, to demonstrate my fairness, I find it rediculous with the same zeal that liberals tend to bring up Laura Bush's accident that killed her boyfreind and Scarborough's secretary that committed suicide by hitting her head against a desk. All need to be called out as political hogwash. So it would be forthright to just say what Rush said was wrongand leave it at that. Relativism is usually something attributed to the left, and abhorred on the right.
My guess it that Rush is speaking figuratively. He is saying Sheehan, by critizing Hillary, is committing political suicide. - from anotheramerican
I think you're being much too generous to Limbaugh. I see nothing in his words that supports your version. After years of listening to that clown I picked up a feel for his style and it is never as subtle as you're suggesting.
I honestly think he was at the very least attempting to keep alive in people's minds the old rumors of Clinton's involvement in Foster's "murder."
"My guess it that Rush is speaking figuratively. He is saying Sheehan, by critizing Hillary, is committing political suicide. I am guessing Rush is saying that if Sheehan continues her criticism of Hillary, the media on the left will characterize her, (much like the media on the right already has), as a kook and extremist."
This is the silliest thing I've read in some time. Did you read the quotes? "I will guarantee you she's already had the talking-to. Somebody has gotten to her and said, "Do the words 'Fort Marcy Park' mean anything to you?"" Rush is not talking about a threat of "political suicide" there. He's obviously talking about an actual death threat. The phrasing does not lend itself to an interpretation of "the media is going to hate you".
brabatino?,
Exactly, how could I have missed it? Limbaugh is absolutely saying that if Cindy Sheehan doesn't shut up Mrs. Clinton is going to have her murdered.
Does that sound any sillier from me than Limbaugh?
The problem is that people don't listen to you. People listen to Rush. They believe his crap, even though much (perhaps most) of what he tries to pass off as facts are in fact, untrue. They believe it because it lends credibility to their predjudices. I'll stop short of calling him a liar because I think he actually believes his misrepresentations. I think he's just a sad, uninformed, insecure person, who's shouting loudly enough to get his ego stroked. Something that probably never happened to him as a child.
tommy wrote:
"Exactly, how could I have missed it? Limbaugh is absolutely saying that if Cindy Sheehan doesn't shut up Mrs. Clinton is going to have her murdered.
Does that sound any sillier from me than Limbaugh?"
It sounds very silly indeed. But I long ago stopped thinking, "But surely he doesn't mean that, it's completely ludicrous."
In my experience, if I hear something on the radio so strange that I feel like immediately cleaning out my ears or doubting my own sanity, they usually said it and they usually meant it--or at least defend it later.
Irene
I think thing's get murky when one tries to assign intentionality. What did Rush really mean? But alas, intention is a component of communication, the intent behind the words. Personally, I think the most judicious approach to determining intention is the "big picture". A- Follow the money. Rush is paid huge sums of money to push the envelope in specific ways and there's a mass of data on this. B- Analyse history. History is the best judge of future behavior. This piece has to be viewed from the context of his lead propagandist role @ Clear Channel. He's the 'Godfather' as Boortz calls him. Rush leads the dittos 3 hrs daily on neocon talking points. In his role for Clear Channel, accusations against the Clintons have been his daily bread.
There is nothing close to competition on the radio dial. Clear Channel is vast and essentially has a monopoly. Other than little mosquite Air America and radio-silent websites, there's very little risk in terms of being challenged by the media. Rush is smart enough not to take the Michael Savage approach, of a slightly more overt vitriol. Michael Savage goes further than Rush in terms of fearmongering, and is not taken as seriously. So Rush knows the line. Others try variants of Rush but just aren't as skilled.
As Horror movie directors know, it's often scarier if you don't fully name the evil or show it. So here we just have shadows and outlines, hints that somehow Sheehan will meet the same demise as Foster, a demise strongly, repetitively associated in a previous scene to the Clintons. Not exactly connecting the dots is tactical and works. The thrust of the Bush campaign, recall, was essentially, if you elect Kerry you'll be sorry, bad things will happen. So this just fits within that. It's very much on-message. Excellence in broadcasting by Limbaugh once again.
This was just Rush "joking" that Cindy Sheehan had better not CROSS Hillary. Does he really believe that the Clinton's had Vince Foster killed? Or would have Ms. Sheehan offed? Of course not. Lighten up people!!!
BUT I'm willing to bet Cindy Sheehan NEVER attacks Hillary again.;-)
What the Rush Limbaugh's of the world do not understand is that not all people have a "side" politically.
Many people have issues they believe in strongly. In the case of Cindy Sheehan, it is opposing this unjust war in Iraq which is doing nothing to make us safer.
Whether you're a Democrat or Republican, if you disagree with Cindy on Iraq, you disagree with her on the most important issue in her life, and she will speak up against you.
That just proves Cindy Sheehan is not doing this purely for politically motivated reasons. She is not just trying to attack Bush, or attack Repulicans in general.
Someone like Rush cannot even grasp that someone might actually care about an issue more than a "side". He only sees things in black and white, conservative or liberal. That's what makes El Rushbo a complete hypocrite and blind partisan. He claims to have core values like limited government for example, but then supports an administration which spends like there is no tomorrow, and opposed an administration (Clinton's) which kept spending in line and balanced the budget.
That's how Rush sees the world, not by seeing the individual merits of an issue, but by trying to see how that issue can be blamed on a democrat, how an issue can be linked negatively to a Clinton, how an issue can be twisted to make Bush look like Superman. He offers no ideas, no solutions, only pep-rallys for the administration.
You are so right. But I would add that he does this for one reason--RATINGS.
Surely you outraged leftists don't take Limbaugh's comments seriously. The Clintons as lethal enforcers of their nefarious prerogatives is an old joke. No one, with the exception of the shady characters David Brock used to hang out with during his Arkansas days, believe that Vince Foster was offed by Mrs. Clinton. Rush was making a joke, perhaps an old one. We do have the right to make fun of our governing class, don't we? Or does right apply only to the angry left? This is yet another MM posting that falls outside its alleged mission.
You are correct, Sir. There's no law against being a lying scumbag.
cerebus, I have noticed that the main talking pont for Rush's outrageous comments are as follows:
1. He is only a radio show host. 2. Radio show hosts talk in hyperbole. 3. Radio show hosts have a first ammendment right to say what they do. 4. He was only joking. 5. The left does it too.
The problem is that this talking point is still alive and well. I have heard it often not as a joke from my freinds on the right. It will be brought out again should Hillary run. It was part of a laundry list of accusations in a defacto coupe de ta that caught the President lying about a bj. So you may be smarter than the average elephant, but you are an exception.
>My guess it that Rush is speaking figuratively. He is saying Sheehan, by critizing Hillary, is committing political suicide.
Then why didn't he say just that. Why not just say that Sheehan has a tin ear where politics is concerned and that by going after Democrats with as much zeal as she did Bush, would cost her some support on the left? But he didn't say that. He said that if she continued criticizing Hillary Clinton, she would end up in Fort Marcy Park and he said that for a reason and that reason wasn't humor. He mentioned FMP because it is well known among his hard core audience as the site where Vince Foster died and he was clearly insinuating that by going after Hillary Clinton, Sheehan was putting herself in a position to be physically murdered by political cronies of Clinton. It was an irresponsible and vile thing to say. It was akin to Republican politicians of the early '70's using the term "states rights" in every other sentence in the south as code for "leftover racist Dixie-crats, vote for us, we're on your side".
> Surely you outraged leftists don't take Limbaugh's comments seriously. The Clintons as lethal enforcers of their nefarious prerogatives is an old joke.
It's not an old joke, it is a still very much alive and sinister suggestion that the right wing continues to use to marginalize two political figures that they can't marginalize based on their politics. Both Clintons represent several political positions that are more popular with more people than what the Republicans currently represent, so they only way they can marginalize the Clintons and their postitions in public life are to continue with the thinly veiled "jokes" that are really personal attacks aimed at destroying their credibility with accusations of crimes never committed and of guilts never proven.
> No one, with the exception of the shady characters David Brock used to hang out with during his Arkansas days, believe that Vince Foster was offed by Mrs. Clinton.
Go find twenty regular Limbaugh listeners, at least half believe that Foster was murdered by Clinton. Guaranteed. In my experience, most Dittoheads do believe that and many of the other spurious accusations lobbed at the Clintons by the Arkansas Project and it's minions. They also have no use for any media outlet that is not a bought and paid for right-wing shill.
> Rush was making a joke, perhaps an old one.
If he was making a joke, it was pretty darn unfunny. What exactly were we supposed to be laughing about? The prospect of a boy killed in an unjust war's mother being murdered in a public park and having it made to look like a suicide by evil political cronies because she had the guts to speak out against it? Yeah, that's just hilarious.
> We do have the right to make fun of our governing class, don't we?
Yes, we do. We do not however have a right to openly and publicly accuse people of horrific crimes that have no basis in fact or evidence and then act shocked when people don't think such a vile insinuation is "funny".
>This is yet another MM posting that falls outside its alleged mission.
We have a prominent right wing media figure accusing a Democratic senator and former first lady of committing murder for political gain and insinuates that she may again, even though there is zero evidence to suggest that either scenario is true. If this isn't a perfect example of conservative media misinformation, I'd like to know what is
The majority of people who heard this joke know full well that Hillary Clinton didn't commission a hit on Vince Foster. They do know, however, that Mrs. Clinton is a ruthless politician who exacts punishment on those who cross her. In that she is a typical member of the governing class. Limbaugh is indulging in hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point and MM is hysterical (or dishonest) in including this as an example of disinformation.
Would you be willing to say that Bush "...is a ruthless politician who exacts punishment on those who cross him. In that he is a typical member of the governing class?"
Of course.
"Go find twenty regular Limbaugh listeners, at least half believe that Foster was murdered by Clinton. Guaranteed. In my experience, most Dittoheads do believe that and many of the other spurious accusations lobbed at the Clintons by the Arkansas Project and it's minions. They also have no use for any media outlet that is not a bought and paid for right-wing shill."
I agree with you Holly28,
If the Right didn't believe the Clinton’s had Foster murdered, or didn't want their followers to believe this, then why did they go through ten years of court battles, all the way to the Supreme Court, to get possession of a few photos of the corpse. The Right had most of the photos but they insisted they had to have them all in order to prove their “murder” conspiracy. And that isn’t the only murder conspiracy they pin on the Clintons.
The Right VERY much wants all of its followers to think the Clintons are murderers and they aren’t kidding.
Great points Holly, this man is beyond despicable...he's NOT funny...nor entertaining IMHO...but his listeners like to use the I can interpret what he "really" meant - or he's just funning excuse when he totally goes OFF THE RESERVATION. Methinks poor Rushie is feeling unappreciated with all the attention on Katrina and Rita and his bumbling excuse for a POTUS! He's a hateful, vengeful example of what happens to one when you point that "one finger" and allow the others to point back at you!
There is no charge too scurrilous, no allegation or insinuation too deceitful for these people to throw at the 'lefties', the Clintons being the optimum targets of choice. I'm so sick of the 'he's only joking' BS that's the first thing out of all the apologists' mouths every time someone like Limbaugh launches one of his thinly disguised hateful tirades. He said what he said. It's out there. Only he knows how much of a joke he was trying to make. Frankly the humor here escapes me.
If he's just an entertainer, as many claim, it makes me wonder what kind? He's not a humorist, not a satirist, not very intellectual, doesn't sing or dance, never seen him juggle. What kind of entertainment is this? He sits in a narcotic-induced haze isolated in his little sound booth, fomenting divisiveness and pulling whatever lying drivel he can out of his butt. But hey folks, it's only entertainment!
This is far from much ado about nothing. This is the level of discourse on the Rush show. When his bankrupt POV is obvious he resorts to this kind of stuff. In the old days the audience would shallow this stuff whole. Today MMFA is painstakingly documenting this. Whenever I am drawn into an argument with a right winger and he parrots the stuff Limbaugh, Hannity or Oreilly spews, I can easily provide factual rebuttal. Facts I can’t remember I can easily access. Limbaugh has poisoned the political dialogue for decades. MMFA is the cure. Incidentally, Here in 2005 – The rule is: if a conservative mentions Bill Clinton in any political argument and he losses.
Actually, I think a corollary on Godwin's Law specifically applied to politically-oriented forums might not be a bad idea. It would certainly take the steam out of more than a few sails!
The difference between the "Bush knew about 9-11" conspiracy theories and vince foster is that the vince foster murder theory was broadcast for hours every day, week after week back in the mid 90's. Rush used to go on about it continually. The theory soon found itself on heavy rotation in the MSM. Eventually it was taken up by the independent prosecutor, was it not? I would not even be suprised if there were congressional hearings on it (can't remember exactly because it was all so stupid and irrelevent).
Were not the clinton's cleared of any suspicion concerning vince foster by ol' ken starr himself?
Compare that to the "Bush was behind 9-11" stuff. Is this being broadcast daily on nationwide network radio networks for hours a day? Is it a daily topic on CNN/ABC/FOX...? Have independent government investigations scoured far and wide for any kind of evidence to show that our current administration is immoral or unfit?
I think congress yesterday decided to drop any congressional investigation into plamegate. Not a big deal without a media echo chamber.
Rush kept this kookie vince foster theory on the airwaves continually for months and months. It was not just a little joke.
Of course it's not a joke and he, Hannity, Savage, O'Lielly, Coulter and the rest depend upon the braindead who listen to them. Give a listen to a week's worth of WJ callers on the "right" when you can stand to do it and hear the very words coming out of their mouths that were dropped in by this gang! Isn't it interesting that these folks who think it UNPATRIOTIC to criticize this FOOL did so much worse during Clinton's tenure. HYPOCRITES!!!
Wow! You just wrote what I have been saying to my right wing friends and family members for 5 years.
Rush is JUST SO full of himself. I suppose that also explains the massive arrests during the RNC. Oh NO, the police would NEVER break up a demonstration unless Hillary had ordered it. What a useless windbag.
Re Rush: It;s a time-honored strategy. When the GOP is under pressure, deflect the criticism to a non-issue; when all else fails, blame Clinton(s).
Gee, I thought the Starr commission spent $80 million on Whitewater, Foster's death, etc. and came up with no evidence supporting anything other than a suicide. Should we reopen the case, Rush?
Re Sheehan, she has the right to say whatever she wants. Hillary is an able politician who I believe wants to see a viable and peaceful exit for Iraq, as I do.
no. 1, this is not a "joke" by limbaugh. he fully intends to keep this planted in the mind of his dittoheads and a large majority of them will repeat it and believe it. no. 2, rush and his ilk were a big reason for vince foster's suicide. he was thoroughly depressed by what he called the washington "game" of destroying people's lives. he specifically mentioned the wall street journal in his suicide note, because of the many false attacks they printed about him. rush limbaugh is walking scum.
Diverting attention to the clintons and speculating about things that have never been proven, just shows how little rush feels about his audience. In light of the worst natural disaster in U.S. history and the collapse of the our emergency response organizations because of poor leadership he prefers to speak about rumors and cindy sheehan. He is starting to sound like the weiner salesman he once was. He should concentrate on facts as hard as he concentrates on selling garbage to his mindless robots...
If the right reined in its "attack dogs" on issues like this that after 10 years of repeating by such people, as Rush, and the on-air pimping of books containing this theory by such tax exempt organizations, as Jerry Falwell, may be you could veiw this as comic. However, they have not. Hence the term vast right wing conspiracy.
Now that Democrats now have started to counter punch with facts and the true scandels of the right, I love that the party faithful excuse this continued tactic with "Oh, you must be kidding..." or "Why get it into mudslinging". We have gotten into the fight because the right started it and continued to use it while they force fed the public on a steady diet of the left is out to get you and is wrong and corrupt. If you start a fight don't cry as you get beat down. Like most bullies they don't like to get hit.
Silly me--and all the time I thought Rush murdered Paul Wellstone. No wonder, according to the National Enquirer, a journalistic force to be reckoned with and which is at least as credible as Judith Miller, and certainly more credible than Limbaugh, Bush has started boozing again. All these murders--so difficult to keep track. So many lies he can't keep his story straight. Maybe Rush and Bush could get together and have a little party--I hear OxyContin and booze can really mess you up. Why not invite Hannity, Coulter, Savage and O'Reilly too? Oh wait--how much more messed up could they get? There has to be some explanation for the screwball c-r-a-p that gets disseminated as news and information over taxpayer owned bandwith on a daily basis.