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Did decisions by news organizations influence 2004 presidential election?

November 02, 2005 1:36 pm ET
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During his October 28 press conference following the indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby for perjury, obstruction of justice, and false statements, special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald noted that, had witnesses testified "when the subpoenas were issued in August 2004," indictments would have come "in October 2004 instead of October 2005."

Fitzgerald's mention of subpoenas issued in August 2004 is a clear reference to New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who was subpoenaed that month but didn't testify until October 2005, after spending 85 days in jail for violating a court order instructing her to testify. In referring to "witnesses," Fitzgerald also seems to have had Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper in mind. Cooper was subpoenaed in May 2004 but was held in contempt in August 2004 and refused to testify until July 2005.

Fitzgerald's statement that the Libby indictment would have come in October 2004 had witnesses -- presumably Miller and Cooper -- testified in August 2004 didn't include one detail that would seem to be of great political, even if little legal, importance: An indictment of Libby in October 2004 could have had a determinative impact on the presidential election held just one month later. Moreover, evidence of the involvement of White House senior adviser Karl Rove in outing Plame did not come out until July 2005, after Cooper's last legal avenue for avoiding jail closed and Time released Cooper's notes, which included an email from Cooper to Time Washington bureau chief Michael Duffy naming Rove as Cooper's source on the Plame matter. Rove is widely credited with Bush's re-election, and indeed his entire political career; the disclosure just before the election that he outed a CIA operative would presumably have further alerted voters to serious ethical lapses in an administration that pledged to clean up the White House. It would also have reminded voters of the administration's pledge -- now altered beyond recognition -- to fire anyone involved in the leak.

In effect, whether intentional or not, Miller and Cooper may have played key roles in determining the outcome of the 2004 presidential election by refusing to testify before the grand jury until after the election.

Miller and Cooper both claimed that they could not testify unless their sources waived confidentiality agreements. But both ultimately testified long after the 2004 election based on waivers that were not substantively different from waivers they possessed prior to the election.

In Cooper's case, he claimed in July 2005 that he had finally agreed to testify "solely because of a waiver I received from my source." But Cooper received the purportedly new waiver only after he reached out to Rove for it, and, according to Rove's lawyer, the "waiver" was merely an affirmation of a previous waiver. The Washington Post reported that Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, "has said that he merely reaffirmed the blanket waiver by Rove, who is the president's deputy chief of staff, and that the assurance would have been available at any time." Indeed, given that Cooper reached out to Rove for affirmation of the waiver in July 2005, it seems he could easily have done so in August 2004.

As for Miller, she testified only after a conversation with Libby in which Libby assured her that he had already granted her a waiver in 2004. The Washington Post reported that Libby's lawyer "has said repeatedly -- and underscored in yesterday's letter -- that Libby cleared Miller to talk to Fitzgerald a year ago and that the waiver of Miller's confidentiality promise was completely voluntary."

Both Cooper and Miller, it appears, held waivers in 2004 that were substantively identical to the waivers upon which they claim they based their decision to testify in 2005.

An August 25 Los Angeles Times article appears to be the first mention in the media that Cooper's failure to reach out to Rove before the election reflected a view at Time that the magazine should avoid involvement in the issue before the election: "Cooper did not ask Rove for a waiver, in part because his lawyer advised against it. In addition, Time editors were concerned about becoming part of such an explosive story in an election year." In a "War Room" entry that same day, the online magazine Salon.com noted the significance of this tidbit in the Los Angeles Times story:

Translated, as John Aravosis explains at AMERICAblog today, that means that Time's editors didn't want Cooper to reveal information that could be damaging to Bush's reelections [sic] hopes until after the election was over. "It's one thing for Time to do its job and ignore the effects of its reporting and overall work on US elections," Aravosis writes. "It's quite another for Time to make decisions based on whether they'll influence US elections."

In a way, it may be even worse than that. By not seeking a waiver from Rove -- by not reporting what its reporter knew to be true -- Time allowed Americans to go the polls believing that which the magazine knew to be false.

Some columnists have now picked up on this and begun to note the possibility that the delay in Fitzgerald's investigation affected the 2004 election, including Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne, Los Angeles Times columnist Robert Scheer, and Boston Globe columnist Thomas Oliphant.

Dionne wrote in a November 1 Post column:

Has anyone noticed that the coverup worked?

In his impressive presentation of the indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby last week, Patrick Fitzgerald expressed the wish that witnesses had testified when subpoenas were issued in August 2004, and "we would have been here in October 2004 instead of October 2005."

Note the significance of the two dates: October 2004, before President Bush was reelected, and October 2005, after the president was reelected. Those dates make clear why Libby threw sand in the eyes of prosecutors, in the special counsel's apt metaphor, and helped drag out the investigation.

As long as Bush still faced the voters, the White House wanted Americans to think that officials such as Libby, Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney had nothing to do with the leak campaign to discredit its arch-critic on Iraq, former ambassador Joseph Wilson.

And Libby, the good soldier, pursued a brilliant strategy to slow the inquiry down. As long as he was claiming that journalists were responsible for spreading around the name and past CIA employment of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, Libby knew that at least some news organizations would resist having reporters testify. The journalistic "shield" was converted into a shield for the Bush administration's coverup.

Scheer added in his November 1 Times column:

The most intriguing revelation of Special Prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald's news conference last week was his assertion that he would have presented his indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby a year ago if not for the intransigence of reporters who refused to testify before the grand jury. He said that without that delay, "we would have been here in October 2004 instead of October 2005."

Had that been the case, John Kerry probably would be president of the United States today.

Surely a sufficient number of swing voters in the very tight race would have been outraged to learn weeks before the 2004 election that, according to this indictment, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff -- a key member of the White House team that made the fraudulent case for invading Iraq -- "did knowingly and corruptly endeavor to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice."

Globe columnist Oliphant wrote on November 1:

No one really noticed, but Patrick Fitzgerald made an unassailable point last week about the timing of the indictment that his CIA leak investigation has produced so far.

''I would have wanted nothing better," he said, ''that when the subpoenas were issued in August of 2004, witnesses testified then, and we would have been here in October of 2004 instead of October of 2005."

Give or take a nuance and some garbled syntax, the prosecutor was in effect showing that the quixotic pursuit of a nonexistent right or privilege by some news organizations is one reason President Bush was reelected last year.

Also citing the Los Angeles Times story and the Salon.com analysis, Media Matters for America noted that, intentionally or not, Cooper and Time essentially took sides in the 2004 election by actively misleading readers by "reporting" without contradiction the White House's denials of Rove's involvement in the Plame leak -- denials that Cooper knew to be untrue:

Time magazine published an article co-written by Washington bureau chief Michael Duffy and reporter Matt Cooper in October 2003 that strongly suggested that Karl Rove had nothing to do with outing Valerie Plame, and quoted White House press secretary Scott McClellan flatly denying Rove's involvement.

There was only one problem: Cooper and Duffy knew that was false. They knew that Karl Rove was involved; knew that the article they co-wrote misled readers and presented without contradiction a McClellan quote they knew to be inaccurate. They knew this because Cooper himself learned from Karl Rove in July 2003 that Plame worked for the CIA.

While Time did everything they could to protect Karl Rove, the magazine did nothing to protect its readers; instead, it actively misled them. Defenders of Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller frequently talk of the duty a reporter has to protect his or her sources, but shouldn't protecting their readers -- by not penning articles they know to be misleading -- be their first priority?

And yet, according to the Los Angeles Times, Time didn't seek a waiver from Rove allowing Cooper to testify to the grand jury, in part, because "Time editors were concerned about becoming part of such an explosive story in an election year." But Time was part of the story -- and they took sides in it. By choosing to protect Rove, and by extension Bush, and by choosing to mislead readers in order to do so, Time took sides. Intentionally or not, the magazine took Bush's side in the election; it took Rove's side over its readers' -- and it took the side of lies and deception over truth.

But Cooper and Miller weren't the only journalists whose silence about a matter relating to pre-war intelligence may have helped shape the outcome of the 2004 presidential election.

In September 2004, CBS News abruptly cancelled plans to air a prepared segment questioning one of the Bush administration's primary rationales for the Iraq war. As CJR Daily explained at the time:

A CBS spokeswoman said only that "it would be inappropriate to air the report so close to the election."

Campaign Desk is confused by the word "inappropriate" here. The story in question apparently details how the administration relied on false documents (there's that word "documents" again) when it said that Iraq had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger last year. Either the report is thoroughly researched and holds up -- or not. If it doesn't, kill it; if it does, air it.

Noting the network's statement that it spiked the story because it was "so close to the election," San Diego Union-Tribune columnist Robert Lawrence wrote in an October 1, 2004, column:

Well, that's odd. In most journalism schools, the professors teach you that a potentially major story that could have impact on an election should be published as soon as it's confirmed, so the voters can take it into account, think it over and make their decisions. Otherwise, what's the point of publishing or broadcasting it at all?

As reported in The New York Times and on the Newsweek Web site, CBS was ready to say that President Bush was relying on false documents when he told the world that Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger and used the claim as one of his reasons for launching the war.

Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has reported that, in October 2004, The New York Times killed a planned article about the mysterious "bulge" underneath President Bush's jacket during a presidential debate. According to FAIR, a "Times journalist ... claims the senior editors felt Thursday [October 28, 2004] was 'too close' to the election to run such a piece."

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    • Author by Brabantio (November 02, 2005 2:21 pm ET)
         

      Of course, if these things had come out right before the election, the Bush apologists would have screamed about the suspicious timing;now of course, these odd delays and omissions probably seem quite acceptable to them. As it turns out, suspicious timing works both ways. Excellent work.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by draftedin68 (November 02, 2005 2:55 pm ET)
         

      Can we all say DUH?

      The record is getting more clear that the only planning done by Duhhbya and his handlers was done working backwards from elections.

      While it's gone just a bit off schedule, the invasion of Iraq certainly was.

      Operation Iraqi Liberation was supposed to follow a timetable that would have had our victorious, flower-decked troops marching in homecoming parades just before the Republican convention in 2004.

      Ooops!

      I shudder to think what Rove, Cheney and Rummy are cooking up for the puppet Duhhbya to spring on us for the elections in 2006 and 2008.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by colron (November 02, 2005 3:04 pm ET)
           

        Well the '06 elections will center on Iraq still with a new emphasis on the successful elections there and the new constitution. What I am waiting for is the fight to start over the nomination of Alito.

        I think with the vote in Denver to legalize pot that the Liberterians will come out full force with their platform with the themes "drugs and smaller government.

        What do you think we can expect to see from the Democrats?

        Report Abuse
    • Author by left045 (November 02, 2005 3:14 pm ET)
         

      MMFA: "Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has reported that, in October 2004, The New York Times killed a planned article about the mysterious "bulge" underneath President Bush's jacket during a presidential debate ..."

      ...

      C'mon. Did anyone actually listen to that debate? Is there any hint at all that Bush was getting any kind of messages? Bush's performance was not very good at all!

      Meanwhile, at one of the debates (it might have been the same one), Sen. Kerry was clearly shown pulling something white out of his inside jacket pocket while approaching the podium. This was a clear violation of the debate rules, and I don't remember any major media outlet covering this. A Kerry spokesman tried to explain to the NY Post (?) that it was a "pen" that he pulled out. Again, this would have been a clear infraction of the debate rules. I also haven't seen many pens that are white and square and fold open.

      By the way, CBS had their "hard" piece against President Bush on 60 Minutes II, which ended up being based on phony documents. It was around one month before the election. What was CBS' 60 Minutes "hard" piece against Kerry? There was none.

      I think it is quite a stretch to imply that the media was favorable to Bush in the last election.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by oldschool3212 (November 02, 2005 4:57 pm ET)
           

        You seem to have forgotten about the slanderous Stolen Honor video and the Swift Boat liars. The media was more than happy to let them unjustly smear John Kerry. No attempt was made to find out if their claims were justified. However, the media went all out to discover that the Bush documentary was based on false documents.

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      • Author by Brabantio (November 02, 2005 5:13 pm ET)
           

        "C'mon. Did anyone actually listen to that debate? Is there any hint at all that Bush was getting any kind of messages? Bush's performance was not very good at all!"

        It wasn't very good at all, you're right. On the other hand, there was blinking and long pauses while looking straight ahead, which did come off as a little odd. I don't remember if it was in one of the debates, but he actually seemed to be talking to someone else during one episode. Also, I believe one of the Bush team's terms was that there would be no camera shots from behind (maybe just rumor, I'll admit, but it's worth looking into). The point is, it was a valid news story, whether you think his performance was good or not, and the fact that it would be brought out close to the election is not grounds to kill the story.

        "Sen. Kerry was clearly shown pulling something white out of his inside jacket pocket while approaching the podium."

        Are there pics of that?

        "By the way, CBS had their "hard" piece against President Bush on 60 Minutes II, which ended up being based on phony documents. It was around one month before the election. What was CBS' 60 Minutes "hard" piece against Kerry? There was none."

        Fallacious, it assumes that there was something credible to do a "hard piece" on. This is the same rationale for the "fake balance" we saw after the debates, where the list of Bush's huge, important lies were subtly equated with much more minor ones from the Kerry side. Should CBS stretch and lie to come up with something for "balance"?

        "I think it is quite a stretch to imply that the media was favorable to Bush in the last election."

        If you don't believe that burying negative news on his behalf is favorable to Bush, I would suggest you seek psychological help.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (November 02, 2005 5:19 pm ET)
             

          Let's be honest, The reason Bush won the election and Kerry lost is because people, rightly or wrongly, trusted Bush more than Kerry. Kerry offered his solutions on his website and instructed people to go there? He flip flopped back on forth on the War because he tried to have it both ways, and couldn't. His wife was wacky and bizarre - neither of them connected with the American people and he was a lousy candidate.

          All that being said, I still voted for him. Not because he had my support but rather I didn't think Bush deserved another term. I am still not sure he deserved four more years, but he was elected - it's done and over. To look back on it now and hang on "what if's" is pointless and meaningless......and we will never know for sure what could have or might have happened.

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          • Author by Brabantio (November 02, 2005 5:46 pm ET)
               

            "To look back on it now and hang on "what if's" is pointless and meaningless......and we will never know for sure what could have or might have happened."

            I will never understand the rationale of this, which is a common theme of your posts. We can't turn back time, so it's useless to bring it up. It makes about as much sense as to defend yourself in a slip-and-fall case by saying "look, what if the floor was dry? He might have still slipped and cracked his skull. We'll never know, and it's over and done with". You know full well it's about accountability. How can you expect to hold people accountable for their actions and to set examples for better conduct with your attitude?

            The fact that the person you voted for may have very well lost as a result of this, and that it doesn't seem to bother you at all is extremely odd. People get upset, and rightfully so, when a sports team gets robbed by a bad call, and where the opposite call (or lack of any) would have sealed the game the other way. If you've ever watched sports, you surely know what I'm talking about. Do you think that's irrational, that people should just throw up their hands and say "Whatever, we can't change it so there's no use commenting on it"? In general, people don't like to have what they deserve taken away from them - for you, discussion of such things is simply "pointless".

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            • Author by tommy (November 02, 2005 5:53 pm ET)
                 

              brabantio,

              Find me definitive proof that Bush stole the 2004 election, outside of some far left websites and their nutty fantasies and conspiracy theories, and I will engage you in a discussion.

              Until then if you can find one rational reason for living in some whiny, "we lost, dammit", world then it is absolutely without relevance and has no merit.

              And what does it have to do with accountability. This is a common phrase liberals love to throw up as it pertains to Bush? As if he has some god given pass to allow him to escape accountability anymore than other President or elected official? Tell me, please, how he is different in that regard?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (November 02, 2005 10:06 pm ET)
                   

                "Find me definitive proof that Bush stole the 2004 election, outside of some far left websites and their nutty fantasies and conspiracy theories, and I will engage you in a discussion."

                I don't believe you, simply because you have already indicated that any website that lists such information is "far left". You are not open to that information. Nevertheless, I will give you a chance to redeem yourself;

                [link to www.projectcensored.org]

                If you can't refute the mathematical oddities and impossibilties listed, then I would hope you could at least explain what's so "nutty" about the contents of the page. I'm willing to bet you can't do either.

                "And what does it have to do with accountability. This is a common phrase liberals love to throw up as it pertains to Bush? As if he has some god given pass to allow him to escape accountability anymore than other President or elected official? Tell me, please, how he is different in that regard?"

                It has everything to do with accountability! If you hide the story, then nothing will ever be done about it. On the other hand, if the media had been as vocal about the outright theft of two elections and the lies that have led up to a war as they had been about "Monicagate", then the rank and file of America can demand action. If they don't know about it, they can't do that, can they? Therefore, no accountability. The media keeps letting him off the hook, and this story is a perfect example.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by azapache (November 02, 2005 8:29 pm ET)
               

            By your reasoning. Why do I keep hearing its "Clinton's fault", "well Clinton did it" and "Clinton thought...". And there are alot more Repubs whining about Clinton than Dems whining about losing the election. I know I listen to them every Sunday on the talk shows.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by jeter2 (November 02, 2005 3:19 pm ET)
         

      How does THIS meet the criteria of Mis-Information?

      This is NOTHING more than MMFA asking : What would have happen IF....

      It's as meaningless as asking:

      What would have happen IF we'd captured Bin Laden BEFORE the elections?

      What would had happen IF Rather's documents had been proven authentic?

      What would have happen IF we'd had another 9/11 before the election?

      What would have happen IF the Swift Boaties had never materialized?

      What would have happen IF WMD's had been found?

      What would have happen IF gas prices were as high or higher than they are today?

      It's NOTHING more than speculation on whether or not the Libby indictment would have made one iota of a difference in the election results.

      Again, how is THIS mis-information?

      Please take NOTE that the journalist MMFA highlights as ruminating over THIS are Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne, Los Angeles Times columnist Robert Scheer, and Boston Globe columnist Thomas Oliphant.... ALL LIBERALS.

      Then we are offered more opinion from Salon.com, a LIBERAL website. And F.A.I.R which advertises itself as a progressive group.

      Of course ANYTHING could have changed the election results...some I listed above could have made it a LANDSLIDE for Bush or a resounding DEFEAT...AND a WIN for Kerry.

      Sorry MMFA...this "topic"--as mis-information--is a reach.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MM_JF (November 02, 2005 3:41 pm ET)
           

        How does THIS meet the criteria of Mis-Information?

        Matt Cooper co-wrote a Time Magazine article that quoted a White House spokesperson saying something Cooper knew to be untrue. That article contained no mention of the fact that it was untrue.

        How could that possibly NOT "meet the criteria of Mis-Information"?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (November 02, 2005 5:29 pm ET)
           

        "It's as meaningless as asking..."

        Sorry, Jeter, it isn't. Your list is largely comprised of random happenstance that is not within anyone's direct control. None of those things are things we should expect, necessarily. So, saying "what if the media acted in a responsible and non-partisan manner before the election" is not at all similar. The media should behave in such a manner, it is something that the American people should be able to count on! It does not fall into the classification of random possibilities like the items on your list.

        None of the things on your list happened. The Libby indictment did, and the question of whether it could have had an effect if released to the public one year earlier is a perfectly valid and highly important question. I can't believe you think otherwise!

        Let's turn the tables a little bit;what if Kerry had won, and after the inauguration it was discovered that Osama had actually been captured right before the election, by military unit that was holding him secretly. The rationale for the secrecy is that it would be "inappropriate to let this information out right before the election". Would you then say that it's silly to hypothesize on the effects of that delay? Of course, it's far-fetched, but it seems to me like the media has acted just as unprofessionally and irresponsibly here.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by bluestateactivist (November 02, 2005 4:52 pm ET)
         

      The story about W.'s wireless listening device came out a couple of weeks before the election. Dave Lindorff broke the story, I believe. But the MSM, particularly the NYTimes, didn't cover it then. After the election, the Times explained that it would have had too much of an effect on the election!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by chuckyinjersey (November 02, 2005 7:36 pm ET)
         

      The Liberal Media won't admit it, but all TV networks in the US tailor news to fit the US government line.

      If you've seen the movie "Good Night, and Good Luck" you learned that CBS Chairman William S. Paley was pushing CBS News to go easy on Joseph McCarthy. Paley always had a soft spot for the right wing; he especially was fond of Richard Nixon and said as much to Charles Colson. The fact that Paley was a Nixon fan came out amid the Watergate scandal.

      As the new president of CBS News gave money to Bush-Cheney '04, CBS has ensured that there will be no coverage that embarrasses the US government.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (November 02, 2005 7:43 pm ET)
           

        As the new president of CBS News gave money to Bush-Cheney '04, CBS has ensured that there will be no coverage that embarrasses the US government. by chuckyinjersey

        ***

        And how does the president of CBS News political contribution ensure this? And just curious, do we know if he also gave to the opposition party? Many business people, for networking reasons primarily, actually donate to both parties.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by azapache (November 02, 2005 8:40 pm ET)
             

          "And how does the president of CBS News political contribution ensure this? And just curious, do we know if he also gave to the opposition party? Many business people, for networking reasons primarily, actually donate to both parties."

          For the same reasons that if you give to democrats and moveon.org you are not qualified to hear a court case against a Republican congressman. We also know that a this jurist gave to both Republicans and Democrats.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by lostlogic (November 02, 2005 8:49 pm ET)
               

            For the same reasons that if you give to democrats and moveon.org you are not qualified to hear a court case against a Republican congressman. We also know that a this jurist gave to both Republicans and Democrats. by azapache

            ***

            Do you agree with the decision to remove this judge for his contributions to a political party? I don’t. Now that they removed him have they set precedent that anyone of one political party appearing before the courts can contest a judge for his political contributions? And further more now that they have removed the judge do they need to find one that has never voted, donated or claimed a party affiliation to oversee this case. I would imagine since they ruled there was a conflict that someone who supported a republican cause could not hear this case either—who’s left?

            It was a stupid decision.

            So I don’t think your flippant response addresses my question.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (November 03, 2005 9:32 pm ET)
                 

              lostlogic - Wednesday November 2, 2005 08:49:15 PM EST

              I have said this before but I dont think since you have been here so here is my take. The media, to my view, is not so much biased in a conservative or liberal way but as service to power. Thus it represents the interests of power. This is why you see a somewhat liberal stance on social issues, most likely powerful people like wealthy CEOs and contributers WANT their daughters to be able to have abortions if they want the, dont want their Gay sons discriminated against and so on. They also WANT an economically conservative, thus a conservative foriegn policy, platform. To me this best describes the media bias. Bush is doing great things for the powerful interests no matter the overall effects of his policies. PIPA did a study which showed a majority of Bush supporters were wrong in gauging his policy positions. I dont think this would be possible IF the media had been doing its job. Also the same poll showed the majority of Kerry supporters were correct in what Kerrys position was on such policies. The media bias toward Bush was clearly evident in both 2000 and 2004. In 2000 Gore was portrayed as a liar even though his political enemies considered him an honest man and to do so exaggerations, and misrepresentations were used while Bushs outright LIES during the debates were ignored. For instance he outright lied about who benifitted from his tax cuts and even on his former positions when he said he had brough dems and republicanst together to pass a patients bill of rights bill which he in fact vetoed. In 2004 the after the debates you could see many pundits saying Bush clearly won though every poll and anyone who actually watched the debates could clearly see how outclassed Bush was in the debates. I mean even if you supported Bush there just is no way to beleive that he outdebated Kerry if you actually watched. The box is clearly visible on his back and the administration did NOT explain it with any reasonable explanation and an imaging scientist at JPL said it was clearly some kind of box. The failure of the NYTimes to report this when they had the story because of its impact is bias. I mean who are they to withold what they believe to be true because of what THEY think the impact will be, they do this not in service to conservative ideology but in service to power. I could give many more examples but I think this is enough to make the point.

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    • Author by ufleirx (November 02, 2005 9:11 pm ET)
         

      I hear ya brabantio, HOWEVER I honestly don't think the Libby indictment would have changed a thing as far as the election RESULTS went.

      Later,

      I AGREE this would have been HUGE, and the Republicans would have been up in arms....BUT the Libby indictment doesn't come CLOSE to falling into the SAME category as "hiding" bin Laden.

      ----------

      Jeter,

      An indictment of Libby would not have had to have been huge the margins of victory were slim to be accurate. To be honest it could have cost Bush the election.

      But the more dangerous point here is that there are media outlets that are letting malfeasance go because they feel they would cost someone an election. It is not the press corps job to maintain the balance of power but to inform the public and allow them to decide the balance of power. There should be stiff penalties for this as it smacks of undue influence of the administration and Congress. "How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!" -- Samuel Adams

      What we have here is the would-be Tools of a would-be Tyrants pervert or deferring the truth in a effort to maintain their power. Right on time the end of our Republic has started. What do Republics usually get about 300 years. We're at roughly 230 so we have begun to see the cracks in the facade. Corruption, incompetence, the collusion of those in power to stay so, cronyism, major voting issues and the falling of a free press in to the servitude of those in power. If it continues, you children will see the end of their liberty and your grandchildren will hear of it like some fairytale. We must debate and decry those that abuse the system to save it – even after the fact – as this is the duty of patriots

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      • Author by Brabantio (November 03, 2005 1:09 am ET)
           

        "Corruption, incompetence, the collusion of those in power to stay so, cronyism, major voting issues and the falling of a free press in to the servitude of those in power. If it continues, you children will see the end of their liberty and your grandchildren will hear of it like some fairytale. We must debate and decry those that abuse the system to save it – even after the fact – as this is the duty of patriots."

        Bravo!

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        • Author by deeanna (November 03, 2005 1:42 am ET)
             

          In response to : "Corruption, incompetence, the collusion of those in power to stay so, cronyism,ect."

          I agree.We cannot just sit around and say "Oh well, that was then,this is now" That may work with petty stuff, but not this.I wouldn't say that to the Jews about Hitler, or the Blacks about Slavery so I certainly would not say that to my fellow Americans about George Bush.He ruined this country and made it unsafe for us all.

          by undefined - Thursday November 3, 2005 01:40:17 AM EST

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    • Author by rrastro (November 02, 2005 10:21 pm ET)
         

      no effesct as most people were voting against kerry

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    • Author by kenkong77 (November 03, 2005 6:04 pm ET)
         

      How can MM pretend to gauge possible "what if?" outcomes? This is the third post they've made that poses a question. The other two were about O'Reilly, who used to be attacked by MM with the FACTS, but is now being simultaneously attacked with evidence-less posts.

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      • Author by Brabantio (November 03, 2005 6:21 pm ET)
           

        "How can MM pretend to gauge possible "what if?" outcomes?"

        Do you really believe that all this information wouldn't have made a difference to voters, especially if Libby was indicted before the election? You don't think it's a problem that media outlets buried stories to prevent them affecting the outcome? What, precisely, do you take issue with here?

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        • Author by kenkong77 (November 03, 2005 6:26 pm ET)
             

          It's cheap to win based on others' failures, don't you think? Democrats need to rely on something other than the stumblings of the Bush administration. I consider myself an open-minded liberal, which used to be able to be said with just "liberal," but alas, not anymore. Anyway, the only way for our party to win in '08 is to convince the undecideds. And we won't do that by just letting things happen. We have to MAKE them happen. It's time for action, not sitting back and watching the right spiral and flame out. But what do I know?

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          • Author by Brabantio (November 03, 2005 7:23 pm ET)
               

            "It's cheap to win based on others' failures, don't you think? Democrats need to rely on something other than the stumblings of the Bush administration."

            Are you joking? So the media has no obligation to report stories, because that might mean a "cheap" victory? It's better to let the stumbling administration stay in power instead of risking the opposition's somehow unworthy win? Please clarify!

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    • Author by see it real (November 05, 2005 12:45 am ET)
         

      re: The Answer is "Yes"

      lostlogic - Wednesday November 2, 2005 08:49:15 PM EST

      I have said this before but I dont think since you have been here so here is my take. The media, to my view, is not so much biased in a conservative or liberal way but as service to power. Thus it represents the interests of power. This is why you see a somewhat liberal stance on social issues, most likely powerful people like wealthy CEOs and contributers WANT their daughters to be able to have abortions if they want the, dont want their Gay sons discriminated against and so on. They also WANT an economically conservative, thus a conservative foriegn policy, platform. To me this best describes the media bias. Bush is doing great things for the powerful interests no matter the overall effects of his policies. PIPA did a study which showed a majority of Bush supporters were wrong in gauging his policy positions. I dont think this would be possible IF the media had been doing its job. Also the same poll showed the majority of Kerry supporters were correct in what Kerry's position was on such policies. The media bias toward Bush was clearly evident in both 2000 and 2004. In 2000 Gore was portrayed as a liar even though his political enemies considered him an honest man and to do so exaggerations, and misrepresentations were used while Bush's outright LIES during the debates were ignored. For instance he outright lied about who benifitted from his tax cuts and even on his former positions when he said he had brough dems and republicanst together to pass a patients bill of rights bill which he in fact vetoed. In 2004 the after the debates you could see many pundits saying Bush clearly won though every poll and anyone who actually watched the debates could clearly see how outclassed Bush was in the debates. I mean even if you supported Bush there just is no way to beleive that he outdebated Kerry if you actually watched. The box is clearly visible on his back and the administration did NOT explain it with any reasonable explanation and an imaging scientist at JPL said it was clearly some kind of box. The failure of the NYTimes to report this when they had the story because of its impact is bias. I mean who are they to withold what they believe to be true because of what THEY think the impact will be, they do this not in service to conservative ideology but in service to power. I could give many more examples but I think this is enough to make the point.

      by solon - Thursday November 3, 2005 09:32:13 PM EST - reply to this comment - flag this comment

      =============================================================

      Your points are entirely correct.

      Not only were Bush's lies ignored, any person, group, or alternate media source that highlighted Bush's lies were often demonized and trashed by the right wing conservative Republican media.

      The Daily Howler [link to www.dailyhowler.com] said that reporters trashed Gore because "it was fun", while they knowingly, wrongfully, and in a sinister and conspiratorial manner, protected and sustained Liar Bush, and very soon, protected and sustained each and every right wing conservative Republican every time they lied, while they trashed those persons and groups that called the Republicans on their lies.

      Also, many of these corporate reporters that shilled and/or shill for Liar Bush and the lying Republicans trashed the media watchdog groups that called them on their lies. I've already seen the right wing corporate Republican hack reporter for the Washington Post, Dana Milbank, criticize The Howler as a "Gore shill site" and last week, Milbank attacked the "ideological media" (code word for liberal/progressive alternate media) for running stories and/or columns about Judith Miller and the New York Times possibly conspiring with the Bush administration to push Bush's lies for starting his bogus war with Iraq. This faked indignace has worsened with the whining from O'Lielly, Tapper, Taranto, Drugbaugh, etc, blasting MMFA, F.A.I.R., The Daily Howler, etc., for calling them on their lies and/or protection and insulation and sustaining of right wing Republican liars.

      When the conservative corporate contributors to the Republican Party control the media, it's nearly the same as the conservative controlled government controlling the media.

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