NY Post's Orin falsely claimed that because no one has yet been charged with outing Plame, "no covert agent was outed"
On the November 3 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews, New York Post Washington bureau chief Deborah Orin falsely claimed that because "[t]here was no charge in the indictment [of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby] involving outing a covert agent ... no covert agent was outed." In fact, special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald has given no indication of whether Valerie Plame, the CIA operative whose identity was revealed in the leak case, was a covert agent, and he has explicitly stated that the reason no one was charged with the leak itself is that Libby's actions obstructed the investigation and prevented investigators from determining whether the leak itself constituted a crime.
The October 28 indictment of Libby on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to investigators does not address the issue of whether Plame was covert -- which is a specific criterion for prosecution under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA). However, the indictment does state that at the time of the leak, "Valerie Wilson [Plame's married name] was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified." In an October 28 press conference, Fitzgerald clarified that:
FITZGERALD: I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward. I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003.
Orin acknowledged Fitzgerald's statement during her appearance on Hardball: "Her [Plame's] status has not been established. The special prosecutor said very explicitly last week that he had made no determination on whether or not she was covert. That's a fact. I mean, he did not issue any charges based on her being covert." But Orin then falsely asserted that because Fitzgerald "did not issue any charges based on [Plame] being covert," Plame must not have been covert:
ORIN: There was no charge in the indictment involving outing a covert agent, hence no covert agent was outed, because the prosecutor knows the original Mister X who told Robert Novak [author of the July 14, 2003, syndicated column that first publicly exposed Plame] that first got this name out, no charges have been put against that person or against Robert Novak, hence there was no outing of a special -- of a covert agent because she wasn't covert.
In fact, Fitzgerald's indictment never addressed the issue of whether Plame was covert. Moreover, Fitzgerald also stressed that his investigation is ongoing:
FITZGERALD: I will not end the investigation until I can look anyone in the eye and tell them that we have carried out our responsibility sufficiently to be sure that we've done what we could to make intelligent decisions about when to end the investigation. We hope to do that as soon as possible. I just hope that people will take a deep breath and just allow us to continue to do what we have to do.
As Media Matters for America has previously documented, in his October 28 press release and press conference, Fitzgerald said that, due to false testimony offered by Libby, he had been unable to determine if anyone had committed a crime in the leak itself. During the press conference, Fitzgerald offered an explanation in the form of a baseball metaphor:
FITZGERALD: [W]hat we have when someone charges obstruction of justice, the umpire gets sand thrown in his eyes. He's trying to figure what happened, and somebody blocked their view. As you sit here now, if you're asking me what his [Libby's] motives were, I can't tell you; we haven't charged it. So what you were saying is the harm in an obstruction investigation is it prevents us from making the fine judgments we want to make.
During a later segment on the November 3 edition of Hardball, Republican strategist Ed Rogers advanced an argument similar to Orin's. When host Chris Matthews asked if, given the fact that White House senior adviser Karl Rove disclosed Valerie Plame's identity to reporters, "[Rove is] now a man who should he have his security card yanked," Rogers falsely replied that Plame's identity "wasn't classified." Matthews pressed Rogers to clarify his claim, stating, "You said that there was nonclassified material that Valerie Wilson was undercover," and Rogers responded:
ROGERS: Well, a special counsel has looked into this and brought no charges on what would be a violation of the law to reveal her identity. It appears that if Karl Rove would have stood on the South Lawn [of the White House] with the Rockettes and a bullhorn and announced she was in the CIA, that would not have been a violation of the law, because she wasn't covert.
Although Matthews failed to correct Orin when she advanced similar claims earlier on the program, he corrected Rogers, stating, "[Fitzgerald] couldn't make a case on the central charge of the outing of an agent because Scooter Libby had thrown dust in his face, is his basic statement." Rogers persisted, asserting that "[w]hat [Fitzgerald] said was, he believes Scooter Libby didn't tell him the truth, but he knows what the truth is." But in his October 28 press conference, Fitzgerald explicitly stated that, due to Libby's false testimony, he had been unable to determine whether the leaking of Plame's identity was itself a crime.
From the November 3 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: She [Plame] was undercover. If she wasn't undercover, how come all her neighbors and friends thought she was in some other business altogether?
ORIN: You know, that's like saying how come [Time magazine Washington contributing editor] Hugh Sidey submitted an affidavit trying to keep [Time reporter] Matt Cooper from having to testify that said everybody in Washington knew it. You can find people who said they didn't know it. You can find people who said they did know it. The basic point -- Chris, she's supposed to be a crack agent. Where do you think in the CIA training manual are the directions that the way to keep yourself covert is to send your husband on a mission and then have him go high profile and blab about, attack the White House from every rooftop?
MATTHEWS: Sure, you can knock her conduct, but her status has been established by the president of the United States, the attorney general, [John] Ashcroft.
ORIN: No, Chris, it has not. No, no, no, no --
MATTHEWS: They named the special prosecutor, didn't they?
ORIN: -- no, no, no, no --
MATTHEWS: I'm sorry, I --
ORIN: -- no, no, no. Her status has not been established. The special prosecutor said very explicitly last week that he had made no determination on whether or not she was covert. That's a fact. I mean, he did not issue any charges based on her being covert.
[...]
MATTHEWS: We're back with Deborah Orin, Washington bureau chief of the New York Post, and Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation. Let me ask you, Katrina, should the vice president testify in this case as the state's witness against his chief of staff, Scooter Libby?
VANDEN HEUVEL: He doesn't want to. I'm sure they want to protect him. But, Chris, you asked the right question before of Deborah. The whole issue of motive -- what was Scooter Libby's motive? He was linked at the hip to the vice president, his chief aide. If Libby lied, did he lie to conceal the vice president's involvement, thereby protecting his boss, thereby not getting this news out in advance of the election in 2004? These are core questions. I think we need to keep our eyes on the prize and focused. And for Deborah, one, to dismiss what happened in the Senate the other day [Democrats forcing the Senate into closed session November 2] as a stunt is so abusive toward any concept of minority rights in a democracy. And two, to deny that this indictment is the tip of the iceberg and that it's not widening -- what did the president know, what did the vice president know?
MATTHEWS: OK, let her respond. I think you've offered her an opportunity to respond.
VANDEN HEUVEL: I mean, hyperventilating in terms of not understanding. You would call the enforcement of the War Powers Act a stunt.
MATTHEWS: OK --
ORIN: Wait, Katrina, I'm simply drawing conclusions from what the prosecutor said. The prosecutor said this was a very narrow case. The war was not on trial in this case. There was no charge in the indictment involving outing a covert agent, hence no covert agent was outed, because the prosecutor knows the original Mister X who told Robert Novak that first got this name out, no charges have been put against that person or against Robert Novak, hence there was no outing of a special -- of a covert agent because she wasn't covert.
[...]
MATTHEWS: Let me try Bob [Shrum, Democratic strategist] on this, I know he might agree with this thought, I'm not sure. We know now on the record, because we read all about it, the "Official A" at the White House, which everyone assumes is Karl Rove according to the indictment, talked to Matt Cooper of Time magazine, talked to him about Valerie [Plame] Wilson's identity. Did, in fact, talk to Bob Novak as well about Valerie Wilson's identity. The very things the president said his staff had nothing to do with. They weren't involved in that. We now know on the record they did through a variety of sources, including, reading carefully, the indictment. Is this man worthy to be trusted with national security documents with classified materials if it's clear that Karl Rove was talking about classified information to the press? Is he now a man who should he have his security card yanked?
ROGERS: It wasn't classified.
SHRUM: If he were applying for a security clearance today, he were a normal person trying to get a security clearance, it is clear under the rules that he would not get one. It's also clear, as The Washington Times -- not The Washington Post, The Washington Times -- White House correspondent lays out today that Karl Rove lied to Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, he may have lied to the president, and he allowed a lie to be told to the American people. You know, I'm not sure the standard of employment in the White House should be that you're not yet indicted. There ought to be a higher standard than that.
MATTHEWS; You're saying, by the way -- I want you to get your chance here. You said that there was nonclassified material that Valerie Wilson was undercover.
ROGERS: Well, a special counsel has looked into this and brought no charges on what would be a violation of the law to reveal her identity. It appears that if Karl Rove would have stood on the South Lawn with the Rockettes and a bullhorn and announced she was in the CIA, that would not have been a violation of the law, because she wasn't covert --
MATTHEWS: I thought he said there was a lot of sand thrown in his face, dust thrown in his face, and that's why he couldn't make the indictment.
ROGERS: We're going to have a trial about that a year from now.
MATTHEWS: No, no, no, about the indictment of whether an undercover agent was outed here. That's what he said during his press conference last Friday. He couldn't make a case on the central charge of the outing of an agent because Scooter Libby had thrown dust in his face, is his basic statement.
ROGERS: I don't think that's the case at all. What he said was, he believes Scooter Libby didn't tell him the truth, but he knows what the truth is.
MATTHEWS: He says he was blinded to the truth.
ROGERS: He says he knows what the truth is.
I was watching this exceptionally ugly woman spin so hard I was surprised she wasn't producing electricty. She spun every single GOP talking point so well I kept expecting her to double check the notes they gave her.
I kept HOPING against hope that Mattehews would at least show SOME balls and show her the little bit that Fitzgerald said about Plame's IDENTITY BEING CLASSIFIED. AND that no one knew her work with the CIA and the fact that the CIA initiated this investigation and I keep wondering WHY the NEO CON apologists HATE America so much that they put party above their COUNTRY!
Just completely disgusting. She and the others who would rather protect the GOP and White House against traitors should be continually exposed for the liars and shills they are.
I saw the show and was disgusted by the exchanges - Chris Matthews and Katrina V. should be ashamed of themselves for not correcting Orin's misrepresentation of Fitzgerald's public statements and the indictment. They could have refuted her with a simple statement of logic: Absence of proof [of a crime] is not proof of absence. And for Orin to conclude that because there was no clear evidence of a crime, yet, Plame was obviously not a covert agent, is the epitomy of illogical thinking.
I'm getting to the point that I can no longer bear to watch Meet the Press or Hardball because Russert and Matthews are so inept at questioning the lies and misrepresentations spewed by their republican guests.
Plato
"I'm getting to the point that I can no longer bear to watch Meet the Press or Hardball because Russert and Matthews are so inept at questioning the lies and misrepresentations spewed by their republican guests."
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They're not inept. They're unwilling. They work for a giant defense contractor. Do you think they're going to derail that gravy train?
I saw this too and was horrified at the lies coming out of Orin's mouth. If Plame's identity was not classified, why did Libby lie? And no, not a little white lie that will have to be proven in court. Libby concocted a convuluted cover story which he repeated to investigators and the GJ while Fitzgerald was in possession of contradictory evidence.
I thought Matthews did a good job of challenging her, but only at the very end, after she had gotten to repeat most of the bogus points. He did, at the end, hammer the obvious point that any one with any sense should realize: Fitzgerald obviously confirmed her status as classified at the outset of the investigation. Hopefully, he will correct this bit of spin early and often from here on out: Plame's status as a CIA employee was classified; revealing her identity to anyone without clearance to know is a violation of applicable agency rules and the law.
I could always tell when one of my kids was about to try to weasel out of or into a lie by the amount of hair-splitting and re-defining that went on in our 'debate'. The 1st sign is that something that until now meant one thing, suddenly means something else entirely. The 2nd sign, though this is sometimes even the 1st, is ambiguity.
The lessons that most of us learned as children about truth telling and avoiding being caught in falsehoods has never been absorbed by the Bush Administration and their lackeys. I suspect that has much to do with bad parenting.
Those who apologize/cover for these lies are lower than those who told them. They come in three kinds 1) the paid 2)the afraid and 3)the rough trade.
If the Bush administration is proven to have started a war based on false premises, will Bush and Cheney resign? They are heads of state. Orin is just another hack right wing "journalist."
I listened to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's press conference, and I thought I heard him fairly explicitly say that Valerie Wilson WAS a covert agent in his early description of his investigation.
To the claim that because no one was indicted there was no outing, that is simply ridiculous.
Anyone with half a brain knows that the absence of evidence sufficient to indict someone is not proof that no crime was committed. Anyone with half a brain knows that.
The fact that Scooter Libby and Karl Rove did not admit that they knew what they were doing was illegitimate apparently stopped Fitzgerald from being able to indict them for that crime. Without written proof or other evidence or eyewitness testimony or incriminating statements from suspects, one cannot charge someone with a crime in an indictment.