MSNBC's Matthews, CNN.com continue to distort Murtha's position
During the November 18 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews repeatedly suggested that Rep. John P. Murtha's (D-PA) call for a redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq was inconsistent with his record of being "known as the soldiers' friend" and "pro-Pentagon, pro-soldier." The suggestion echoed recent news reports that described Murtha as being "usually pro-military," implying that his current position is not, and a "pro-military" Democrat, suggesting that the typical Democrat is not. In a separate November 22 CNN.com article concerning reactions to the proposal among Murtha's Pennsylvania constituents, political editor Mark Preston wrote that Murtha has been "a hawk on military matters, reflecting the strong patriotic nature of this southwestern corner of the state," implying that any position other than support for war is unpatriotic.
While interviewing Murtha on Hardball, Matthews said: "Mr. Murtha, I've known you for years, I really like you, but you've always been a hawk. You've always been a defense defender, big defense spending, big support for the Pentagon, known as the soldiers' friend. Why are you against the war in Iraq now?"
During a lengthy response, Murtha said: "These troops have done a hell of a job. Chris, I go out to the hospital almost every week and I see these young men and women who suffer. I see them asking for nothing. I see them not complaining. I see them actually bearing up very well under the burden. ... Only the Congress of the United States can speak for the soldiers. I think we need to change direction in Iraq."
Nevertheless, later during the same broadcast, in a discussion with Democratic strategist Bob Shrum, Matthews again implied that Murtha's call for redeployment was noteworthy at least in part because "[Murtha is] normally seen as ... pro-soldier." Matthews never explained how Murtha's assertion -- echoing a previous statement he made when announcing his resolution that "[b]ecause we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our obligation to speak out for them" -- conflicts with the record of a "pro-soldier" legislator.
As the media criticism weblog Presstitutes noted, CNN.com's Preston also pointed to Murtha's military background as the basis for stating that Murtha reflects "the strong patriotic nature" of Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District. In making that assertion, Preston implied that in order to reflect patriotism, a legislator necessarily must take a hawkish position on the use of military force.
From the November 18 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: Mr. Murtha, I've known you for years, I really like you, but you've always been a hawk. You've always been a defense defender, big defense spending, big support for the Pentagon, known as the soldiers' friend. Why are you against this war in Iraq now?
MURTHA: Well, I've come to the conclusion, Chris, after visiting Iraq two months ago and listening to the commanders who say obviously what the White House wants them to say -- but they don't say it with the enthusiasm. And they talk about the problems they have -- for instance, they told me that every convoy is attacked that goes to Haditha. And I was in Anbar province, which has Fallujah and Ramadi and the areas where they're highly contested.
He doesn't have enough troops to protect the border, so he can't complete his mission because he doesn't have enough people. He told me none of the Iraqis were up to where they should be. All of them were C-3, which is the lowest state of readiness for the Iraqi units. And he says they only work three weeks out of the month and they go home for one week.Then I came home and I looked at the report which we required in the Appropriations Committee, and that showed no significant progress at all. For instance, unemployment is 60 percent. The energy supply -- energy is below prewar level.
Oil production is below prewar level. And we've become the enemy. I saw a British poll reported in The Washington Times that said 80 percent of the Iraqis want us out of there. Then I saw a poll, which was confirmed by the Defense Department, 45 percent think it's justified to attack Americans. Now I'm convinced, until we turn this over to the Iraqis, we're not going to have the success we need. I'm convinced since we've become the enemy, I'm convinced since the U.S. is doing all the fighting or doing most of the fighting, that we're not going to be successful.
The Iraqis are not going to tell the U.S. people where the insurgents are. There's not a great number of insurgents there. There was no terrorism before we went there. And I'm convinced terrorism will be reduced if we redeploy our forces. Now, a lot of people are saying, "Pull out." They've got a resolution on the floor today -- a ridiculous resolution -- which calls for an immediate pullout. No Democrat is going to vote for that. That's not what we're saying. We have what I feel is a very constructive resolution which gives a good proposal about how this war can be ended in a favorable way. These troops have done a hell of a job. Chris, I go out to the hospital almost every week and I see these young men and women who suffer. I see them asking for nothing. I see them not complaining. I see them actually bearing up very well under the burden.
One young woman from Notre Dame, a basketball player, lost her right hand. She is worried about her husband, because her husband was losing weight worrying about her. Another young fellow that lost both his hands and was blinded, and the only thing the family asked for is that he get a Purple Heart. And the reason he wasn't getting a Purple Heart, because this happened with friendly ammunition. He got his Purple Heart.
But I find out a lot from the troops that are in the hospitals. I find out what's needed. They don't complain. Only the Congress of the United States can speak for the soldiers. I think we need to change direction in Iraq. I think we need to redeploy our troops beyond the horizon. This resolution they're going to introduce today calls for immediate withdrawal. That's not what anybody is saying. We need a thoughtful suggestion, a thoughtful resolution, which concludes this war as quickly as possible.
I see no progress at all that's being made. So I came to the conclusion, after almost a year of thought, that it had to be changed. Now, we provide everything the troops needed. We've made sure they had all the equipment they needed. Even though they went into this war with not enough people for the transition to peace, they come into it with less than the number of people they needed, and also they came in without the body armor they needed, the up-armored Humvee.
They completely miscalculated the degree of resistance they would run into. State Department told them, CIA told them -- they ignored that. The former plan called for a lot more troops and they whittled it down because they thought they could win this thing on the cheap. They said oil would pay for this. Now let's compare this with his father. His father had a legitimate coalition. He had 500,000 with 100,000 coalition troops. $60 billion -- and I was chairman of the committee at the time -- went through our committee, was paid for by the international community. Japan, Germany, France -- all of these other countries helped pay for it. He decided not to go into Iraq. He liberated Kuwait with the U.N. resolution and he decided, "I'm not going to go into Iraq." Why? He didn't want to rebuild it, he didn't want to reconstruct it, and he didn't want to occupy it. He had an exit strategy. There is no exit strategy. The path to victory -- victory is not a strategy. I sent a letter to the White House, Chris, in September of last year and I got an answer in May, saying what I suggested they ought to do. They don't reach out. His dad reached out to everybody, reached out to Republicans and Democrats.
[...]
MATTHEWS: OK. Let me go to Bob Shrum. Your view, Jack Murtha is a pretty traditional Democrat, a bread-and-butter, working-wages Democrat from western Pennsylvania. He's normally seen as a hawk, pro-Pentagon, pro-soldier. He's called now for almost immediate withdrawal. He calls it a redeployment, but it's definitely get our troops out of Iraq. Where does that take us now, Bob?
From Preston's November 22 CNN.com article:
Since his arrival in Congress more than 30 years ago, Murtha has helped blunt the loss of the steel industry by pumping federal dollars into his district as a powerful member of the House Appropriations Committee. He has also been a hawk on military matters, reflecting the strong patriotic nature of this southwestern corner of the state.
That changed last week when Murtha called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq over a six-month period.
Murtha's comments initially drew a strong rebuke from the White House with Bush spokesman Scott McClellan linking Murtha to liberal filmmaker Michael Moore.













Matthews, who was unable to distinguish between "self-inflicted" and "intentionally self-inflicted" wounds in his over-the-top beratement of Michelle Malkin and l'affaire Kerry, has again demonstrated an inability (or resolute unwillingness) to correctly define the nexus of the Murtha issue.
At issue is the postulate that you can "support the troops" and still denigrate their mission without directly placing both them AND their mission in greater peril. It is an abominable fallacy constructed out of political necessity by a party unwilling to face their own (and growing) political irrelevancy in dealing with the 40 year growth of islamofascism. That the "loyal opposition" sees success in Iraq as their greatest political threat is a tragedy that is almost unbearable to contemplate.
The word, Mr. Matthews, is SEDITION...blind, ugly, self-serving SEDITION...and it will not be soon forgotten.
"... in [Matthews'] over-the-top beratement of Michelle Malkin ..."
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I can't think of any form of "beratement" of Malkin that I'd feel was "over-the-top" enough.
bingo - Friday November 25, 2005 05:54:10 PM EST
YOU of course are either dense or intentionally NOT getting it. Malkin was trying the old. "Those people are saying" routine. Trying to make a claim without actually saying it herself and Matthews, in one of his rare moments of ethical journalism knew very well the difference between self inflicted and intentionally self inflicted. The very difference the Swift Boat Liars for Rent were trying to blur. Matthews was trying to pin Malkin down to committing to whether or not SHE was willing to say something even the Swift Boat liars would not claim though they were trying to imply it. Malkin showed that not only was she shamelessly and desperatly trying to keep the those people say cover but she was so dumb SHE didnt get the difference. Slandering a WAR HERO, and SILVER STAR winner Kerry is pond scum behavior and it wont soon be forgotten.
"...Matthews, in one of his rare moments of ethical journalism knew very well the difference between self inflicted and intentionally self inflicted."
Matthews, by that time, was foaming at the mouth. Any semblance to intelligent discourse had already been left far behind in the Thurlow interview. But I'll let Matthews own words make my case. You are, of course, free to spin it as you see fit....
For Solon's benefit, let's repeat that...
"Malkin showed that not only was she shamelessly and desperatly trying to keep the those people say cover but she was so dumb SHE didnt get the difference. "
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Also, Matthews gave Malkin several opportunities to deny that Kerry shot himself on purpose. Malkin chose not to do that, preferreing to let the dishonest, disgusting smear stand, without having the guts to stand behind it herself. What a piece of lying, cowardly trash she is.
The fact that democrats think they can say they "support the troops", but to also try to claim the war "was based on a lie" and that we are losing is laughable. It demoralizes the troops to hear dishonest(considering they said the same thing even before Bush was in office like Clinton) politicians claim the are putting their life on the line for a lie and something that isn't worth fighting.
If you tell your wife that you love her, but you hate her cooking, who do you think will be sleeping on the coutch that night?
I would imagine being redeployed too soon or having your tour lengthened while being underequipped and overextended causes more damage to troop morale than the criticism of the Iraq War back here at home. I think your claim that those who question the reasons for going to war are demoralizing the troops is just a slimy tactic to demonize critics while glossing over tangible issues like the ones noted above.
Here is a question for you: Do you think our troops are so emotionally unstable and intellectually challenged that hearing an open discussion about the reasons for this war and how it is being carried out would turn them into what? Traitors? "Peaceniks"?
Ofcourse you have already made up your mind despite looking at any evidence to the contrary that perhaps this administration did mislead us into war. So why need a discussion? Just do what your told and if you don't like it..shutup? Right? your modus operandi?
Try telling that to a guy who gets his legs blown off because his Humvee wasn't armored properly after his tour of duty was extended.
"If you tell your wife that you love her, but you hate her cooking, who do you think will be sleeping on the coutch that night?"
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You're wrong, as always.
We love our wives. It's the know-it-all mother-in-law who has inexplicably sent our wives to cook for the neighbors down the street (without adequate utensils). These neighbors didn't ask for a cook, really don't like her cooking, and there are constant, dangerous grease fires. We say, "come back home, honey, before you get burned."
[link to www.dailykos.com]
here's a collection of comments from Republicans who criticized Clinton's decision to bomb Kosovo. I don't recall anyone accusing Republicans of being anti-military or of demoralizing the troops.
There are several, but they generally sound like this:
"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)
and so, dirk, what would you do if a Democratic president led us into war claiming there was a threat that didn't exist? And what if you thought American lives were being wasted because we initiated a civil war in a foreign land?
Is it inconceivable to you that we could someday get into a war that you would disagree with?
Or do you just think war is glorious and any time we get into a good fight, there's no turning back?
Evergreen, most conservatives are chickenhawks.
Quoting the words of XM 169/THE POWER's Bernie McCain, conservatives are all for war as long as someone else is doing the bleeding.
"If you tell your wife that you love her, but you hate her cooking, who do you think will be sleeping on the couch that night?" Well, I first heard this stupid analogy from Oliver North on Fox News, nice parroting. And I don't have to make an analogy, I can tell you the fact. My wife is currently in the military. She KNOWS I don't support this war. She, as well as those she is with, KNOWS why I don’t support this war. They also know from the letter, emails etc they get while they are away that I do support all of them. There is no conflict. None at all. My wife did not start this war; those with my wife did not start this war. If at the job you work, your boss started hiring illegal immigrants to work below minimum wage, would this be your fault? No, and anyone who found out about it and went after the company would not hold you responsible. This is how it is with those who do not support this war. We do not blame our fellow Americans who are caught up in this. We ask the government to do what is right FOR THOSE IN THEIR SERVICE. WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT OUR FELLOW AMERICANS FROM ABUSE. If you do not agree that is fine, but do not try and pretend there is no way to support our countrymen and not this war. That position holds no water.
dirk - Saturday November 26, 2005 02:07:29 AM EST -
The fact that democrats think they can say they "support the troops", but to also try to claim the war "was based on a lie" and that we are losing is laughable. It demoralizes the troops to hear dishonest(considering they said the same thing even before Bush was in office like Clinton) politicians claim the are putting their life on the line for a lie<<
So in other words it doesnt HURT the troops that Bush LIED and distorted intelligence to take us into a war, but it DOES hurt them when people spread vicious TRUTHS about Bush lying and distorting intelligence to take us to war. I guess you thought the truth is a dirty little secret that the troops had to be protected from. Like Children who shouldnt be told there really is no Santa Clause. Wake up and smell the white phosporus. NO PRESIDENT gets to be protected from people truthfully pointing out he lied and distorted intelligence no matter how mindlessly you committed aparatchiks work this emotional blackmail angle
If you saw Chris Matthews interview an FBI official about his book, "Advanced Interviewing Techniques," you saw Mr. Matthews display his (quite scary) utter inability -- or stubborn unwillingness, probably intended to show what a tough guy he is (just like the name of his show) -- to get his head around the author's quite obvious (and often repeated) main point: in his long experience rough interrogation methods do not in fact work (hence the title of his book) and professionals have long known this.
Matthews, even at the end of his interview, claimed to see in the author's eye a nonexistent gleam hinting that rougher methods were in fact still needed on occasion. (Matthews admitted that he had not read the book).