American Family Association opened its airwaves to advocate for executing gays, adulterers, abortion doctors
SUMMARY: Far-right Christian author and American Vision president Gary DeMar was the guest on the February 2 edition of American Family Radio's Today's Issues. In the past, DeMar has advocated the installation of a theocratic government in the United States in which homosexuals, adulterers, and abortion doctors would be executed.
Far-right Christian author and American Vision president Gary DeMar was the guest on the February 2 broadcast of Today's Issues, a program of American Family Radio, a network of nearly 200 radio stations owned by the conservative American Family Association (AFA). DeMar denounced "the continual assault on all things religion and, in particular, Christian," and AFA president Tim Wildmon praised him as "one of the best writers out there in the Christian community and thinkers." In the past, DeMar has advocated the installation of a theocratic government in the United States in which homosexuals, adulterers, and abortion doctors would be executed.
Wildmon invited to DeMar to discuss "the assault on God in our popular culture." DeMar responded by criticizing two television shows on NBC with allegedly "anti-Christian" themes:
DeMAR: Well, of course, as you know, on television we saw the -- what is it The Book of Daniel that was on there? And I understand that there's gonna be something on Will & Grace. I've never seen Will & Grace, but I guess Britney Spears is gonna be on there, and she's doing some cooking show called "Cruci-fixins."
WILDMON: Yeah, that's right, Gary. Of course, The Book of Daniel is an NBC television program, extremely sacrilegious and anti-Christian, and now NBC has announced that an episode of Will & Grace over in April, I think, will feature Britney Spears the pop star --
DeMAR: I think it's pretty much around Good Friday.
WILDMON: Yeah, the day before Good Friday. And she's supposed to play the part of a conservative Christian. Of course, that's the show featuring a homosexual character. And the name of her show is gonna be "Cruci-fixin's," if you can believe how sacrilegious a network can be. "Cruci-fixin's." It's supposed -- you're supposed to laugh at that because it's a play on the word "crucifixion" obviously.
DeMAR: Right. And of course, we've seen with [the film] Brokeback Mountain and so forth, just this continual assault on things religious and, most specifically, Christian. I know the ADL [Jewish advocacy group, the Anti-Defamation League] has come out against, you know, prayers that mention Jesus' name in a city -- in Florida, and I know here just in Marietta [Georgia], they've done the same with, you know, no mention of any specific god in these prayers. I mean, I don't know who in the world they're praying to. And there's a video out that's making the rounds on the Internet: The God Who Wasn't There. So there's just a daily assault on everything mostly related to Christianity across the board, and Christians need to be prepared for these assaults, especially with their children as they go off to school and, of course, to college, and as they get further and further away from the home. We as Christians need to be vigilant in answering these rather ridiculous objections to the things of Christ.
NBC canceled The Book of Daniel January 25 after four episodes aired; AFA founder and chairman Donald E. Wildmon said, "This shows the average American that he doesn't have to simply sit back and take the trash being offered on TV, but he can get involved and fight back with his pocketbook." NBC claimed that the purported Will & Grace storyline of Spears serving as a Christian conservative hosting a cooking show called "Cruci-fixin's" came from "a press release mistakenly issued by the network," and that "neither a script nor story line for the episode in question has been written." The God Who Wasn't There is a film that, according to a Newsweek article, "irreverently lays out the case that Jesus Christ never existed."
Later in the broadcast, co-host Jeff Shambley told DeMar, "I should mention that I personally appreciate your work. The three-work set God and Government [American Vision, 1990] and Reformation to Colonization [American Vision, 1997] is used in our home school. And I know your work has blessed millions of people."
Tim Wildmon echoed Shambley's praise of DeMar, declaring, "Well, one of the best writers out there in the Christian community and thinkers is Gary DeMar."
DeMar is a leading promoter of an extremist theology called Christian Reconstructionism, also known as Theocratic Dominionism, which, according to journalist and author Frederick Clarkson, "argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life -- such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely 'social' or 'moral' issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion."
In his essay, "Theocratic Dominionism Gains Influence," Clarkson stated that under a Christian Reconstructionist government, "[w]omen would be generally relegated to hearth and home. Insufficiently Christian men would be denied citizenship, perhaps executed. So severe is this theocracy that it would extend capital punishment beyond such crimes as kidnapping, rape, and murder to include, among other things, blasphemy, heresy, adultery, and homosexuality."
As Americans United for Separation of Church and State documented, DeMar wrote in his book, Ruler of the Nations: Biblical Principles for Government (Dominion Press, 1987): "The law that requires the death penalty for homosexual acts effectually drives the perversion of homosexuality back into the closet." DeMar added: "The long term goal [is] the execution of abortionists and parents who hire them. If we argue that abortion is murder, then we must call for the death penalty."
DeMar further articulated his views during an exchange on an Atlanta radio show in 1991 with liberal Christian activist Skipp Porteous and host Paul Gonzalez:
DeMAR: The definition of Christian Reconstruction is simply this: The Bible applies to every facet of life. That means not just the judicial aspects of life, such as civil government, church government, but business, economics -- every facet of society. The Bible has something to say about each area. For example, on homosexuals: We do not believe that homosexuals ought to be executed. The Bible doesn't say that homosexuals ought to be executed. What it says is this: If two men lie together like man and woman, they are to be put to death.
PORTEOUS: What the hell do you think that is?
DeMAR: Well, wait a minute. If a guy comes up to me and he says, "I'm a homosexual," that doesn't mean he's to be executed. If you understand the Scriptures, it says very clearly: If a man comes up to you and says, "I've murdered somebody," that doesn't mean that person ought to be executed.
GONZALES: Oh, so what you are saying, Gary, is, if you catch homosexuals in the act, then the Bible says to execute them.
DeMAR: The Bible lays forth the severest penalty, which would be capital punishment for two men who publicly engage in sodomy.
DeMar continued by stating his nominal support for the death penalty for adulterers and abortion doctors:
GONZALES: If, indeed, the Reconstructionist movement ever made it in America, would you advocate these biblical principles being carried out: the execution of the adulterer, the abortionist, and the homosexual?
DeMAR: I'm saying that they could be implemented, yes.
In September 2005, DeMar spoke at a symposium at The Chalcedon Foundation, a Reconstructionist think tank. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) called the symposium "a preview of a planned speaking tour of Reconstructionism's leading voices ... that will be traveling to non-Reconstructionist fundamentalist Christian churches around the country beginning this winter as part of the Chalcedon Foundation's missionary effort to 'convert' already conservative congregations to full-blown Reconstructionism."
DeMar's Marietta, Georgia-based think-tank and advocacy group, American Vision, which the SPLC lists as a hate group, claims to be "Equipping and Empowering Christians to Restore America's Biblical Foundation." In 2001, President Bush was expected to re-nominate former American Vision board member and longtime anti-union activist J. Robert Brame III to the National Labor Relations Board; Brame was forced to withdraw from consideration after media reports documented American Vision's advocacy of a right-wing Christian Reconstructionist theocracy.
This is no surprise. Here in Mississippi you can't get away from the AFA's Christian Hate Radio Network. (The AFA is based in Tupelo.) I listened to "Today's Issues" on a long car trip recently and it's amazing the garbage these guys put out. It's embarassing; the "commentators" embody every stereotype of hateful, ignorant Mississippi rednecks you can think of, and live in a universe completely devoid of factual information. I heard them decry a TV show and a movie they freely admit they never saw, and celebrate a book they freely admit they didn't read. They also praised some of Pat Robertson's recent outrageous comments, while freely admitting they had never heard them in context. Pathetic.
i guess it becomes obvious here...the left does have more 'nuts' than the right...except when they don't.
Hey, maybe the AFA can lease some land on a Texas ranch where the BTG (Bilble Thumping Gestapo) can ship the offenders and where Dick can switch from lawyers to gays.
Of course Dick will also need to switch from 28 gauge to a chain gun.
"The law that requires the death penalty for homosexual acts effectually drives the perversion of homosexuality back into the closet." I believe this is Old Testament, Mr. DeMar. Jesus said love the sinner, hate the sin.
"DeMar added: "The long term goal [is] the execution of abortionists and parents who hire them. If we argue that abortion is murder, then we must call for the death penalty."
If abortion is murder, then yes, you must have the death penalty. But has abortion existed in this country since its founding (since it supposed Christian founding). How does Mr. DeMar reconcile that? Abortions occurred, yet the doctors (to say nothing of the parents) were not executed. He (DeMar) is calling for an entirely order.
"And of course, we've seen with [the film] Brokeback Mountain and so forth, just this continual assault on things religious and, most specifically, Christian. "
they've seen the movie? they are supporting the global homosexual agenda to turn us all into them? for shame!
how do they take this movie as an assault on Christians? methinks theythinks about it too much...
those execution criteria would go over well with people - in a radical Muslim country...
I don't know what cruci-fixins are, but they sure sound tasty!
Brokeback Mountain was indeed the film they were railing against. They hadn't seen it, but knew it was bad...very bad...homosexuals...destroyin' Merkuh...
I've never heard of these particular people or the radio show for that matter. Very extreme!! Based on the documentation MMFA has provided these past statements made by DeMar & Clarkson are completely insane! I do agree completely with the conversation relating to the assult on Christianity. I even agree with pointing out how wrong those NBC shows are. Unfortunately when you have people who are making such extreme statements as previously documented, it it takes away the credibility of the issue at hand.
I think you misunderstood Clarkson.
Reading the link it looks like he's quoting what these loonies believe. It doesn't seem to me like he is a subscriber to this kind of rhetoric. Quite the opposite in fact. It seems to me like he's going out of his way to report it so that people will be able to fight back against it.
That's the impression I got from him.
If I misread the paragraph, my apologies for adding Clarkson to the list.
"I do agree completely with the conversation relating to the assult on Christianity."
Then how exactly is Brokeback Mountain an attack on Xtianity?
I didn't even mention Brokeback Mountain, but you didn't know many things are wrong with the movie when it comes to the Christian faith. Fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy... Last time I looked, these weren't Biblical principles. Everyone knows this so please don't try to twist my statements into what this DeMar has said.
so every time sins are committed in a movie, that is an assault on Christianity?
When Zed sodomizes Marceles Wallace in Pulp Fiction, was that an assault on Christianity? Oh, wait a minute, this is make-believe!
Or how about the "take my breathe away" scene in Top Gun - they're committing adultery there. Another assault on a universal religion? Or just good 80's movie story-book romance?
You have got to have a serious weakness of faith to claim that a MOVIE is an assault on your religion. You should be secure enough in your personal relationship with the Lord that MOVIES don't shake you up so much. Get REAL and GO BACK TO CHURCH.
It's not weakness of faith when you point out something that is not characteric of your faith. It is, however,weakness when you change the faith to match you lifestyle. If you read my other posting you will see that I did not even address the movie, rather I addressed the shows such as "Will & Grace" & "The Book of David". Those are attacks on Christianity. Brokeback Mountain is a movie that does not have Christian value to it (like many others). Big difference.
Well that's not what you said or indicated before.
Or The Robe is an attack on Christianity???? Your martyr complex is showing....badly.
actually, Godspell, in its day, pissed a lot of Christians off. now it's tame in retrospect. funny how the arcane dies off and reason prevails in the long run.
How could it possibly it is basically the book of Mark , played straight. If they could get pissed at that no amount of conformity will satisfy them
before removing the mote in thy neighbor's eye, remove the beam from thine own.
if you don't like W&G cause it's not christian enough, don't watch it. you must be awfully busy going around the world condemning everything that isn't as pious as you.
Murder.
But I guess that one is easily overlooked by rightwingers.
Not really, "right-wingers" deal with it severely; "left-wingers" want to pamper & rehabilitate.
Murder? The Bible says "Turn the other cheek"
Are you saying it is justifiable? I can murder someone if they did it first? I don't see that in Christ's teachings. If you sin, you have the almighty to answer to. I would not want to be the executioner who finds out later that the "guilty" was falsely accused and commited. This does happen. Now the executioner is the murderer, do we kill him? I thought repenting our sins and findiong our way to the Lord were teachings of Christianity. That would be rehabilitation, don't you know.
Liberals want to pamper [murderers]...
Evidence of this, please.
"Everyone knows this so please don't try to twist my statements into what this DeMar has said."
Hmmmm, you said:
"I do agree completely with the conversation relating to the assult on Christianity."
DeMar said:
"And of course, we've seen with [the film] Brokeback Mountain and so forth, just this continual assault on things religious and, most specifically, Christian."
How am I twisting your words?
Now, more specifically, how is making a movie regarding things unXtian an active attack on Xtianity? You still haven't explained and that's what I'm asking. I'm not asking what subject matter is unXtian. Is it your contention that anything unXtian is an active attack on Xtianity?
The guy is a nutty extremist fanatic.........his outrageous statements no more speak for the majority of Christians than do the statements by the President of Iran speak for the majority of Muslims. And we are no closer to a Theocracy than we are to Socialism........despite the fear mongering of many.
Homophobic and bizarre rantings like these are protected forms of free speech - so is denouncing them for the idiotic content that lies within.
"And we are no closer to a Theocracy than we are to Socialism........despite the fear mongering of many." --Tommy
----------------------------------------------------
Thank you, ACLU.
Cotton Mather type loons like DeMar worship a God that is very similar to the Allah worshipped by the "islamofascists" such as Bin Laden. I wonder if this clown realizes how similar his viewpoint is to Bin Laden's. Spirituality is a very good thing. Religion.... not so much when it breeds people like this who would categorize people who do not subscribe to his archaic mythology as evildoers who deserve stoning. Can't we just let all the religious zealots battle it out for a couple months with guns and let everyone who doesn't want to be sucked into their religious war stand on the sidelines?
The fact that people like this even exist is enough to frighten. What's even more frightening is that movements like this are gaining footholds in this country.
So if homosexuality is punishable by death, what are the sentences for other horrendous offences like Judeism and Paganism? (Well I can guess on the Paganism) Or what about believing in a different variation of Christianity like being Lutheran?
Wasn't it easier to identify them when all the leaders of such movements used to have funny little square moustaches?
In the past, DeMar has advocated the installation of a theocratic government in the United States in which homosexuals, adulterers, and abortion doctors would be executed.
Just touching on that part about adulterers, if I may.
King David committed adultery with Bathsheba. This was a sinful act, and he was punished, but not with death. In fact, he and Bathsheba were permitted to have a normal marriage relationship afterward, and became the parents of King Solomon, and consequently--27 generations later--ancestors of Jesus Christ Himself.
If David had been executed, God's plan for Jesus' Davidic ancestry would have been thwarted.
Jesus could have said, "Go ahead, stone her," to the Pharisees when they brought to Him the woman taken in the act of adultery. (John 8:3-11) But He didn't. Instead he used the occasion to display the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, and showed mercy to the woman.
"Go my child, and sin no more." That was Christ's attitude. It certainly isn't DeMar's.
The Old Testament has a lot of death, begatting and smiting etc. but Jesus words from the New Testament seem to be ignored by these so called Christian's. Why is that?
As far as I can tell, Jesus was more interested in forgiving, loving and setting a good example. How can these monsters twist the message of Jesus around so much?
They should lighten up a little about Hollywood too. If what you've heard about a movie or song or TV show doesn't seem to be something you're interested in, then by all means, don't go see it, if the song comes on the radio, turn the station, if the show is on your TV set turn it off. Read you Bible or something.
We wont force you to see "Brokeback Mountain", that is unless you force us to watch one of those "Left Behind" movies. You have as much a chance of turning into a gay cowboy as I would have of being born again. As far as I can tell, I was born OK the first time.
This is why Hollywood shouldn't get a break by Christians. There is a diference between "Brokeback Mtn" and the upcoming episode of "Will & Grace along with "The Book of Daniel". Those are outright mocking Christianity. Most people in America doesn't think that is such a great thing. I won't spend money or time on shows/films I don't find appropriate. Hollywood thinks they are being alienated due to politics but they fail to see is they often making shows/films people don't want to watch.
I'm all for "turning the channel", but it's sad that out of over 200 channels on our TV only 10 are considered acceptible for my children. C'mon, how many smut channels are needed!
How was "the Book of Daniel" mocking Christianity, exactly?
This is from the Focus on the Family website & I think it says it all:
In response to NBC’s new television show, The Book of Daniel, Focus on the Family’s Bob Waliszewski issued the following statement: “Having previewed the pilot and an additional episode, I find NBC’s new television show, The Book of Daniel, extremely repulsive in its portrayal of Jesus Christ and intentionally offensive in its flippant attitude toward behaviors almost universally agreed upon as unhealthy to society, morally bankrupt, and, dare I say it, sinful. Adultery. Teen sex. Involvement in a ménage a trois to spice up a marriage. Homosexuality. A pastor who expects, and supports, premarital intercourse. Drug use as a sexual boost. And the list goes on and on.
“Still, most egregious is its portrayal of Jesus. On Daniel, the Individual believed to be the Savior of the world by nearly a billion people around the globe is cast as a wimpy, white-robed visitor who cares little about evil, addictions and perversity. This Christ glosses over a teenager's sexual romps with a, "He's a kid, let him be a kid."
“The Jesus of Daniel is a long way from the holy, compassionate Second Person of the Trinity who created the universe, then found the sin-problems of mankind so egregious that He gave His very life sacrificially to bring redemption. You won't find that Jesus on Book of Daniel. Sadly, if the Jesus of Book of Daniel was the real deal he'd need to apologize to the woman caught in adultery (in John 8) that he instructed, "Go now and leave your life of sin." Viewers with limited knowledge of the Bible are going to be asking themselves, why was He crucified? And that's a great question for us on this show, Jesus winks at the behaviors the genuine Jesus was crucified to save us from.
“While I recognize there are members of clergy who struggle with many of the issues personified by the Webster family, it is the show’s callous attitude towards all things Christian, especially the sardonic depiction of Jesus that causes me the most concern.
“I doubt NBC would consider portraying a Muslim cleric or Buddhist monk in the same light. And rightly so. Why? Because to do so would be mean-spirited and insensitive. But for some reason, portraying Jesus as a namby-pamby frat-boy-guru is fine. I'm extremely disappointed that NBC has chosen to air this program.” [link to www.family.org]
So, Dobson's organization finds it offensive. What a surprise! The depiction of a Jesus that doesn't condemn what they themselves are in the business of condemning upsetting them says very little as to how mainstream America views it. It hardly qualifies as "smut", in any event.
So how should Christians view this show? You may not agree with FOF, however, a very large amount of Christians love this organization and what it has done for the family. If you knew a little about it other than what the Left feeds you about Dobson you would understand. Regardless, of your opinion of the organization, the article mentions exactly what is wrong with the show and why it is an attack on Christianity. If you cannot see this, there is no point in discussing it with you any further. It's like telling you the sky is blue, yet you still refuse to accept it.
It's not an objective question though. Dobson and his followers see things one way, and they criticize a show that portrays things differently. It's their view of Christianity that is being attacked, not the concept itself. It's much like attacks on "family values", which is quite subjective.
What I find amazing is that when people like Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck etc. lie, distort and make inflammatory comments, the advice from the right is that it's free speech and the result of the free market and to just turn the channel. And that's when these people lie, it's something objective that can be shown, not something as subjective as religious belief, and their comments are so outrageous that even trolls don't try to defend them.
So if you are going to argue that Christians shouldn't "give a break" to networks who don't cater to their strict interpretations, then I look forward to your arguments that people should actively attack right-wing personalities for their lies and hate speech. Maybe that's always been your position, if so I anticipate many conflicts between your and your fellow right-wingers on that topic.
Does Jesus appear as a regular person or as the Son of God? Does he say what Jesus did in the Bible or go with a secular view? Would Jesus think it was acceptable for a child to be involved in drugs? Premarital sex? Lesbian affairs? The clergy is were churchgoers receive teaching, counciling, and support to live a righteous life. They usually set the example for the church. While some (being human) have fallen at times, the majority never get the praise they deserve for being such a great example to our communities. Instead people would rather focus on a couple and point out their faults. This show portrays the preacher's family in the worst light possible.
It's obvious people who cannot see that this show is blatant "Christian bashing" are not Christian, but I would think at least people with common sense would see it.
I talked to a friend who was able to watch the show before it was yanked, and she said Jesus appeared to Daniel only when Daniel had been taking pain pills. The implication was that this wasn't the "real" Jesus, but rather Daniel's hallucination of Jesus.
Thanks, I feel better!! Only when the preacher is stoned! Why pray, just pop pills, you have a better chance of getting the answer you want, right!
can't pick up a copy of some weekly news magazine without "jesus. the high school years". can't watch sports without somebody thanking god he put that ball across the goal. can't watch any interview show without someone praising the lord. can't watch the news without someone saying i was spared while god let those other sinners die. and the "do unto others" rule is fine with me. it's just rarely practiced. a lot of christians are the most racist, judgemental, unpleasant people i know.
Mefirst,
I judge that you are being a little judgemental yourself. I don't think it is fair to judge Christianity by its most flawed practitioners, just like it is not fair to judge Islam or any other religion (even non-religion) by the same standard.
Religions are personal things that should be judged by the way their words and ideas speak to you. It has taken me a long time to realize this and you make take it in or discard it, but I thought it was worth offering up.
I also hope you have met some good Christians, Muslims or atheists that allow you to see the good in their beliefs.
"Does Jesus appear as a regular person or as the Son of God? Does he say what Jesus did in the Bible or go with a secular view? Would Jesus think it was acceptable for a child to be involved in drugs? Premarital sex? Lesbian affairs?"
Funny, most of what I remember of Jesus's teachings were things like "love the sinner, hate the sin". He helped those cast aside by society. There's definitely an argument to be made that the attitudes expressed by the show are very much consistent with Jesus's own words and actions. The people in the show have problems - the gist of it (from what I have seen and heard) was that you try to help them without condemning them. Perhaps that's where people like you and Dobson have difficulties.
In any event, because that argument is legitimate, it is not a clear-cut "mockery" of Christianity. It preaches acceptance and tolerance and Focus on the Family (oddly enough) doesn't like it.
Wasn't Jesus both God and man? That is the basis of Christianity. That and that those who call themselves Christians are to love one and other, and that they are to love their god.
If Jesus were truly a man, he would have had the same desires and temptations as the rest of us. He would not be some kind of plaster saint like most Fundamentalists choose to portray him. He would be a man.
As far as Focus on the Family’s Bob Waliszewski rant:
“The Jesus of Daniel is a long way from the holy, compassionate Second Person of the Trinity who created the universe, then found the sin-problems of mankind so egregious that He gave His very life sacrificially to bring redemption."
Jesus was indeed the Second Person of The Trinity but it was his father, God, The Father, who was the creator of the universe, not Jesus. Or did I get this wrong too.
My understanding of the "Trinity" is that all three aspects are God, pure and simple. "God the Father" is God: all-knowing, all-powerful, end-all and be-all. "God the Holy Spirit" is also God, filling the soul of each believer. "God the Son", or Jesus, is God become man in order to bring His message to humans, and to live a life without sin to both fulfill the requirements of the Old Testament and remove the taint of sin from all mankind. As I understand the concept, all three aspects are God, all God all the time, and not three separate entities.
If you think about it, the Holy Spirit filling each separate individual would make it a Holy 300-Billion-ity.
Jesus was indeed the Second Person of The Trinity but it was his father, God, The Father, who was the creator of the universe, not Jesus. Or did I get this wrong too.
Actually, Worrierking, Jesus was the one who did the creating. "All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3) This verse is within the passage (John 1:1-18) most people refer to when they wish to show the divinity of Jesus.
Works for me!
throw away your t.v. that's right. just throw it away. everything on t.v. is a lie. learn to cook. spend time with your family talking...not sitting in front of the tube 'absorbing'. i have not had a t.v. in 19 years. besides all the free time you have, you can't imagine what it's like not to have images of dick cheney, or W. wandering around your living room. it's quite refreshing.
You are really starting to sound exactly like that idiot who you were decrying in the first place.
So was the show "Highway to Heaven" blasphemy? I mean it had a teenage werewolf as an angel.
I say bash it all you can. Because it's long since stopped being something that should be taken seriously anyway. I respect faith, but I have absolutely no respect for people who follow anything to the point that something as idiotic as a television program strikes to the core of their lives. I stopped believing when I realised what a business religion had become. It's no longer even about faith and spirituality. Now it's about extortion and organized mind control. Look at groups like Focus on the (neighbor's) Family, 700 Cult, and the Catholic (Beer) League. Am I wrong? "I'll tell you what to do with your lives, and you send me your money."
Are we not supposed to be allowed to make our own decisions as to how to live our lives? Last I checked we weren't supposed to be dictated to by anything other than our own conscience.
I leave you with a quote from Satan, as portrayed by Al Pachino, who said "Freewill....it is a *&^&*".
I'm all for "turning the channel", but it's sad that out of over 200 channels on our TV only 10 are considered acceptible for my children.
When I was a kid, we only got three channels TOTAL. You and your kids should consider yourself lucky.
As for "turning the channel," it's unfortunate that the pinheads at AFA don't share your tolerant attitude. Rather than merely calling for a boycott of the advertisers on "Book of Daniel," they called for their sheep to send letters and emails to NBC and it's affiliates demanding that they not show the program AT ALL. It was pulled from three NBC affiliates here in Mississippi (Tupelo, Meridian, and Hattiesburg). That's censorship, plain and simple.
I'm not saying you personally agree with censorship; just pointing out what the "Christians" at AFA, with whom you agree about the "attacks on Christianity," are up to.
I think you missed the point Rusty. I'm sure the programming on those three channels were something the entire family could watch. We do monitor what our children watch, but why out of 200 channels only 10 are suitable for kids? I'm all for turning the channel, but when is enough, enough?
Christians spoke up when NBC tried to shove "...Daniel" down our throats. You may call it censorship, I call it freedom of speech. NBC will react as they see fit. If it is not going to be a hit, they will pull it.
How many times do you see Liberal groups encourage others to contact someone if they are offended by their actions? Well, every topic on this webite provides contact information!!Why is that? Could it be they encourage you to contact them/ How many people called for that ABC talkradio host to be fired because of his "inconsiderate comments regarding Islam"?
To call Christians banning together to complain about a blasphemous show censorship is wrong. It is no different than Liberal protests!
"How many people called for that ABC talkradio host to be fired because of his "inconsiderate comments regarding Islam"?"
Now you're engaging in false equivalence. It's not the same thing at all, because only the most radical elements could consider "The Book of Daniel" as hate speech. It's not dismissing Christians as a group or portraying them in a negative light, like many of the anti-Muslim comments have. When we are lied to and exposed to inflammatory comments, that is not acceptable journalism. Trying to equate that with religious views not being adhered to by a television show is completely absurd.
When will we have a show that depicts Islam in the same manner? Heck, "24" had to have a disclaimer on their 2nd seasonto avoid offeneding Muslims and showing them in a negative light!! What if there was a TV show that showed Black people in a light similar to "Christians" were in "The Book of Daniel"? Would it be viewed in the same manner?
"Heck, "24" had to have a disclaimer on their 2nd seasonto avoid offeneding Muslims and showing them in a negative light!!"
Right, because you can depict Muslim extremists and recognize that it's not reflective of the religion in general. That was a good distinction to make, considering how people claim there are no Islamic moderates, how we should convert them all to Christianity, etc. That warning was necessary due to 9/11 and the atmosphere since then. What was the major event or conversational trend that might cause people to associate "Daniel" with all Christians?
"What if there was a TV show that showed Black people in a light similar to "Christians" were in "The Book of Daniel"?"
You're conflating race with religion, and because of that you're not making a lot of sense right there. Where is the negative "stereotype" in "Daniel", again, where is the problem? Is it the recognition that people are flawed, or that those flaws are not addressed with fire and brimstone?
What if there was a TV show that showed Black people in a light similar to "Christians" were in "The Book of Daniel"?
Frankly, as far as how they're depicted on network TV, Christians have it easy. They're almost always shown in a positive light. You want to see your group unfavorably depicted on a regular basis, try being a lawyer.
Fair enough, but I haven't seen MMFA actually call for any program to be taken off the air and provide its readers an easily emailable form letter for that purpose. MMFA points out how ridiculous O'Reilly is all the time but doesn't demand that Fox pull "The Factor" from the airwaves. Neither does it instruct its readers to do so.
You are correct that the AFA people were exercising their freedom of speech, and that is absolutely their right. It would probably be more accurate to accuse the cowardly NBC affiliates of censorship for caving in to the knuckleheads' demands.
This brings up an interesting parallel. Muslims are offended by cartoons of Muhammad, and demand that they be censored. Americans and others who believe in free expression - while not necessarily approving of the publication of the pictures - oppose the idea that religious extremists get to dictate what is and isn't seen. Yet the same thing happens right here on our soil and nobody makes a peep. (Although to give them some credit, most of our religious extremists do not resort to violence to make their point.)
So then your TV is incapable of changing channels and your off button doesnt work?
The religious right and flaming anti-communists, including the present film critic on the FOF website didn't seem to approve of CBS and the fact that Edward R. Murrow went after Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950's. Here is a quote from the review of the movie "Good Night And Good Luck":
"I would simply point out that good men of great conviction have squabbled for decades over the rights and wrongs of what has often been labeled the McCarthy Era."
What a crock. these people are still trying to defend McCarthy. Good men of great conviction can't get their minds around the fact that one drunken Republican from Wisconsin could ruin so many people with threats, lies and innuendo.
On the other hand, my local cable company has less than 30 stations. Of those, six are Christian Stations. While I detest the fact that they carry so many of these stations, I know that I don't have to watch them. Here's an idea. You judge what's appropriate for your family and the individuals in my family will decide what each thinks is appropriate for their individual tastes. If you raise your children properly, you don't have to protect them from what you perceive as filth. They can judge for themselves.
Were you one of the idiots who said Kevin Smith's film "Dogma" was evil and should be boycotted? Even though it was very pro-Christian.
I gave up cable 6 years ago and have not regretted a single day of it. If you are that concerned about what is on, you should seriously consider it.
Come on now, you know that means a spiritual rebirth, I think many of those professing being born-again like Pat Robertson and George Bush need a third a birth. Something went horribly awry with their second one.
based on these views, I think we can safely label AFA as a terrorist organization... if PETA is one, these guys are Al-Qaeda...
those may not be Christian principles... the question is, why do Christians take them personally? why is a movie like that an attack on Christianity? it's an alternative viewpoint, which for the time being is legt in this country... the movie's not interfering with anyone's ability to believe what they want to believe, Christian or otherwise... you guys really need to comprehend the meaning of "live and let live"
Well, it is hard to fathom the rants of the Christian-Fascist Right of today without realizing that the very personage they lay claim to follow would if ' He were to walk among US today' condemn them as 'False Christs' who openly rally their quasi-psychotic minions to be condemnatory, judgemental and as Christ stated, "Outwardly appear to be RIGHTEOUS, ......BUT inside are full of dead man's bones and all matters of perdition".... From such men, FLEE" !
Their VISION of Amerika would be to GUT the CONSTITUTION and replace it with edicts against proscribed human activity which are rooted in the ' Bronze-Age' testaments of nomadic peoples often at war with surrounding 'infidels', all laying claim to their belief THAT the 'Almighty' is one with them.
DeMar is just the most recent of these charlatans who appear from time to time in the American experience. They are in my view, primarily 'shame-based' people WHO through either early trauma OR some definite 'Toxic-Parenting' are compelled to condemn everyone WHO in their narrow view of the human condition ............ AND need to assuage the guilt of their own frailties and shortcomings in order to overcome their own distaste for Life, THUS, the constant calls for DEATH.
Our FOUNDING FATHERS might have something to say on the matter of whether Our Nation was originally intended to be the one of Demar's Vision:
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short Jefferson again:
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?
Also Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Here's Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
Finally let's hear from James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Madison
You realize of course that DeMar could have three possible reactions to those quotes:
1. Admit that the theocratic state he supports has no basis in the Constitution and is instead a construct of religious fundamentalists like himself that are attempting to usurp the power from the people and place it in the hands of priest-kings.
2. Refuse to acknowledge the quotes as reflective of the founders' beliefs and instead focus on the "in god we trust" on our currency and other theological trends that focused on the racial superiority of the European settlers here.
3. His head would explode.
This is the one the Religious Right always kills me with The motto wasn't used on currency until: COINS- 2 coins in 1864 then 1908- PAPER - 1957 THE PLEDGE - 1954
Hardly made by the founders.
1956
I'd like to add one of my favorites.
If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian.
- Mark Twain
Lighthouses are more useful than churches.
Jefferson: History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Navyguy,
Could you please point me to your sources? I agree with what you wrote and would like to do some more research. Thanks.
CSL
Commonsenseliberal,
Go to: [link to www.postfun.com]
OR Just GOOGLE, 'Jefferson on Christianity'. There are a plethora of sites confirming the 'Founding Fathers' sentiments on Religiosity!!!!!!
Navy
then why don't Christians have a sense of humor? Look around. If God created all that we see, he must have had some sense of humor, right? Why must everything they don't agree with be a direct attack on them.
I watched most of "The Book of Daniel" the first time it was on. I wasn't crazy about it, but I didn't find it offensive. It was not much different from other shows except one of the characters was a Minister. Ministers are first, men, they have all of the same problems the rest of us men have. This one had a lot of problems in his own family. I'm sure if the character had started spouting from the Book of Revelation and condemning his family to eternal damnation, the Christians would have loved the show. Instead, he tries to reason with the people he loves. He showed them that despite their behavior, he still loves them. He never said he approved of their behavior. I don't see the problem. I guess they also had a problem with the characters using pain killers. Not much different that someone who drinks to excess as far as I'm concerned. Then, we have the fact that the character talks to Jesus and Jesus talks back. He's at least keeping the line of communication open, right? If Jesus were to appear to me, I might actually listen to him, if he's anything like he was on this show, or if he were like he is portrayed in the New Testament, but not if he's acting like the Jesus these Crusading Christians believe in. I would turn my back on their Christ.
Worrierking quotes:
I might actually listen to him, if he's anything like he was on this show, or if he were like he is portrayed in the New Testament, but not if he's acting like the Jesus these Crusading Christians believe in.
This belief in the humble carpenter from Gallilee as portrayed by today's 'end of days naysayers' stems primarily from the book of Revelation written some six decades after the Crucifixion by the Apostle John while under house arrest on the Island of Patmos.
Now, I dare anyone to present a literal hypothesis as to what John was alluding to in his very symbolic and seems to me 'psychodelic rants' which if we dare interpret it literally reads like the next trilogy in JR Tolkien's phantasy world. In all its gory hyperbole, it portrays Christ as a vindictive Warrior ready to do battle with the miscreants of planet earth.
Hardly what Christ had in mind when he stated that the the 'Kingdom of God is within you!'
OR 'Permit the children to come to Me; and do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter in at all.'
The warrior and blood-thirsty portrayal of Jesus in the book of Revelation is in stark contrast to Jesus' own words while he walked the earth. It is to this characterization THAT the Christian-Right would have US all believe.
One of the most horrific things I've ever read. If only the Revelationists would take to heart The Sermon on The Mount.
"I have stolen more quotes and thoughts and purely elegant starbursts of writing from the book of Revelation than anything else in the English language."
-Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
If you say it is a HOAX, they are threatened and say they are being attacked. See how they try to make people inseperable from their ideas? Religion that takes itself this seriously is a DISEASE.
"The Bible doesn't say that homosexuals ought to be executed. What it says is this: If two men lie together like man and woman, they are to be put to death."
But it doesn't say what to do if two men lie together like a man and a man.
People like deMar and the AFA and the rest of that ilk are really handy with it.
Of course, they like to claim that their worldview is "Biblical" in nature, even though it seems that the only portion of the Bible that they focus on or seem aware of is all in the Book of Leviticus
Several passages in the Bible quote Jesus as saying that anyone that divorces his wife and remarries is committing adultery. None, as in zero, quote Jesus as saying anything about homosexuals. One of the ten commandents says thou shalt not commit adultery. None, as in zero, say thou shalt not be gay. So does this mean that every person that has remarried should be executed? Wow, that would be a lot of people. And the AFA thinks they are doing good deeds? I think they are insane and look like fools.
What's ironic, if Gary DeMar isn't aware of the fact, is that the bible was originally a Hebrew text, with some parts in Aramaic. The English 'bible', which many right-wing Christians love to quote, is not a bible at all. It is a man-made manuscipt written partly to denounce the lifestyles of certain fringes of society in the 16th century.
In the true bible there is no mention of executing homosexuals.
I assume Gary DeMar is an educated man, so he knows well these facts. In this case he willfully deceives. As do Pat Robertson and many other American right-wing Christian personalities.
God would not be impressed.
The Bible denounces wealth again and again and again. So, why don't these extremists decry wealth and call for the killing of the rich?
Holly, What is your point??
Christ repeatedly refers to the rich by admonishing them with the words, "Where your heart is, IS where your treasure lies. He also used similes by way of metaphorical illustrations stating that you cannot serve two masters. What he was referring to was that a truly spiritual being would be cognizant of his station in life and would not allow his 'riches' to overcome his love for his fellow man and God.
Examples..... When observing the poor women who gave out of her WANT after observing a rich person giving much more, HE stated: " He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, "Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all: for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings to God, but she out our of her poverty has put in all the livelihood that she had."
What is the lesson? The poor women gave out of her 'WANT' and not from her need.
Christ knew full well that a rich person would be subject to avarice AND the uncontrolled accumulation of riches, ONLY to put his/her spirituality at risk by entrusting those very same riches as some measure of insurance in as secular world, alienated from God.
You know, Kind of like the Pat Robertson's of the world!!!!!
for instance, has less chance of entering heaven than a camel passing through the eye of a needle.
i just think these people are so insecure, a light breeze is a threat to their christianity.
these types are the first to rail on the Islamofascists and their holy mission to impose their religious will on everyone. Look in the mirror, pal.