Kurtz: "Have the media declared war on the war" in Iraq?
SUMMARY: In his March 27 column, Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz asked, "Have the media declared war on the war [in Iraq]?" -- apparently ignoring the response CBS News' Lara Logan gave to a similar question he asked on the March 26 edition of his CNN program, Reliable Sources. In a detailed response, Logan flatly rebutted accusations repeated by Kurtz that the media have overemphasized the violence in Iraq.
In his March 27 Media Notes column, Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz asked: "Have the media declared war on the war [in Iraq]?" In that column, as well as in a March 27 online chat, Kurtz apparently ignored the response CBS News correspondent Lara Logan gave to a similar question he asked on the March 26 edition of his CNN program, Reliable Sources. In a detailed response, Logan flatly rebutted accusations repeated by Kurtz that the media have overemphasized the violence in Iraq. Apparently ignoring Logan's rebuttal, Kurtz suggested that media coverage of the Iraq war is probably at least partially determined by "journalists' own views," as well as by the media's "value system (which long preceded this war) that violence is more newsworthy than anything else." He also argued that "the way [journalists] frame many stories about Iraq sliding toward civil war carries echoes of Vietnam," during which "the media coverage played a role in turning the country against the war." In support of his comparison of Iraq war coverage to Vietnam war coverage, Kurtz cited questions posed to President Bush at a March 21 press conference and media reports on the third anniversary of the Iraq war, in which journalists merely reported the conditions in Iraq.
In his March 27 column, Kurtz wrote:
In increasingly aggressive questions to President Bush and Vice President [Dick] Cheney, in a growing focus on the death toll in Iraq, in downbeat assessments on the invasion's third anniversary, many journalists now reflect the view that the war has gone horribly wrong.
Although he acknowledged that "[p]erhaps" the media's coverage of the Iraq war "simply reflects the stark reality of the suicide bombings, roadside explosions and mosque attacks that have come to dominate the reporting from Iraq," he added that "perhaps, as Cheney put it on [CBS News'] 'Face the Nation,' journalists provide a distorted 'perception' of Iraq 'because what's newsworthy is the car bomb in Baghdad.' " Additionally, Kurtz stated that "[w]hat is undeniable is that the tone of much of the coverage matches the public-opinion polls showing that a majority of the country has turned against the conflict."
Kurtz's suggestion that media coverage of the Iraq war reflects journalists' own assessments of the war and a media fixation on violence stands in contradiction to what Logan said on the March 26 edition of Reliable Sources -- that media reports of violence in Iraq reflect real security problems in the country. Responding to Kurtz, who noted that "Bush and Cheney essentially seem to be accusing you and your colleagues of carrying the terrorist message by reporting on so many of these attacks [in Iraq]," Logan stated:
LOGAN: Well, I think that's -- that is a very convenient way of looking at it. It doesn't reflect the value judgment that's implicit in that.
As a journalist, if an American soldier or an Iraqi person dies that day, you have to make a decision about how you weigh the value of reporting that news over the value of something that may be happening, say, a water plant that's being turned on that brings fresh water to 200 Iraqi people. I mean, you get accused of valuing human life in a certain way depending on how you report it.
And also, as I -- I mean, what I would point out -- is that you can't travel around this country anymore without military protection. You can't travel without armed guards. You're not free to go every time there's a school opening or there's some reconstruction project that's being done.
We don't have the ability to go out and cover those. If they want to see a fair picture of what's happening in Iraq, then you have to first start with the security issue.
When journalists are free to move around this country, then they will be free to report on everything that's going on. But as long as you're a prisoner of the terrible security situation here, then that's going to be reflected in your coverage.
Kurtz noted Logan's perspective in his column, stating: "The record shows that administration charges that reporters in Iraq are ignoring signs of progress are not true, although most journalists say the dangerous conditions make it difficult to talk to ordinary Iraqis." While Kurtz also took issue with an attack on journalists by conservative radio host Laura Ingraham -- "[w]hen news organizations focus overwhelmingly on insurgent attacks, Ingraham says, 'it begins to look like you're invested in America's defeat.' That sounds like political overstatement." -- Kurtz also stated that "sometimes the unrelenting violence has a way of intruding on the news agenda," as if reporting on the "unrelenting violence" is somehow inconsistent with the "news agenda."
Kurtz went further in his March 27 chat, expressing greater skepticism that the violence in Iraq deserves as much attention as journalists are devoting to it. Responding to a question about whether "the coverage [might] be turning negative simply because the war is starting to go very badly," Kurtz wrote:
Yes, it is entirely possible that continuous bad news in Iraq is driving the negative coverage -- the "stark reality" that I refer to in the third paragraph of this morning's column. But it's also fair to ask whether the car bombings and suicide attacks are the only important thing happening in Iraq, or whether the media have a value system (which long preceded this war) that violence is more newsworthy than anything else.
In providing this response, Kurtz again appeared to have completely ignored Logan's comments directly addressing why other "important thing[s] happening in Iraq" may not be adequately reported:
LOGAN: [O]ur own -- you know, our own editors back in New York are asking us the same things.
They read the same comments. You know, are there positive stories? Can you find them?
You don't think that I haven't been to the U.S. military and the State Department and the embassy and asked them over and over again, let's see the good stories, show us some of the good things that are going on. Oh, sorry, we can't take to you that school project, because if you put that on TV, they're going to be attacked, the teachers are going to be killed, the children might be victims of attack.
Oh, sorry, we can't show this reconstruction project because then that's going to expose it to sabotage. And the last time we had journalists down here, the plant was attacked.
I mean, security dominates every single thing that happens in this country. Reconstruction funds have been diverted to cover -- away from reconstruction to -- they've been diverted to security.
Soldiers, their lives are occupied most of the time with security issues. Iraqi civilians' lives are taken up most of the time with security issues.
So, how it is that security issues should not then dominate the media coverage coming out of here?
Responding to another question, Kurtz also suggested that "declining public support for the war, and the journalists' own views," as opposed to real security problems in Iraq, might be coloring war coverage:
Clearly the security situation, as I have written many times, makes it difficult for the courageous journalists there to move around and talk to ordinary Iraqis. And it may be that the violence has gotten so bad in recent months that that is the overwhelming reality of life in that country. But I also think it's fair to question whether declining public support for the war, and the journalists' own views, have played a role.
In his column, Kurtz further asserted that although "journalists certainly don't see themselves as antiwar ... the way they frame many stories about Iraq sliding toward civil war carries echoes of Vietnam, when the media coverage turned sharply critical as the country soured on that jungle war." In his chat, Kurtz more directly asserted that the media's coverage of Iraq might have a role in souring public opinion of the war effort, as it did in Vietnam. Kurtz wrote that "[i]f the media coverage in fact is turning sharply more skeptical, and in some cases hostile, that could have a major impact on the country as it did during the Vietnam War." He later added that although "[t]he Vietnam War was lost on the battlefield, and perhaps in the political decisions made in the White House and Pentagon ... no one who lived through that period, or has studied it, can deny that the media coverage played a role in turning the country against the war."
In support of his column's assertion that "the way [journalists] frame many stories about Iraq ... carries echoes of Vietnam," Kurtz asked readers to "[c]onsider the questions asked at Bush's news conference last week." Among the questions Kurtz cited was one posed to Bush by Hearst columnist Helen Thomas:
THOMAS: Your decision to invade Iraq has caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and Iraqis, wounds of Americans and Iraqis for a lifetime. Every reason given, publicly at least, has turned out not to be true. My question is: Why did you really want to go to war? From the moment you stepped into the White House, from your Cabinet -- your Cabinet officers, intelligence people, and so forth -- what was your real reason? You have said it wasn't oil -- quest for oil, it hasn't been Israel, or anything else. What was it?
Remarking on this question in his chat, Kurtz asserted that Thomas's references to casualties in Iraq and Bush's now-discredited rationales given for the war were "clearly the formulation of a person with strong views against the war." When a reader asked: "Isn't it the press's job to be skeptical, questioning, and comparing the record to the results?" Kurtz replied:
Absolutely. But the "real reason" question, in Helen's case, was preceded by her declaration about how many people had been killed and wounded in the war and how none of Bush's explanations have held up. That's fine if you agree with her view, but it's clearly the formulation of a person with strong views against the war.
In his column, Kurtz also noted that "[w]hen the networks did their three-year anniversary pieces [on the Iraq war], reciting the mounting death toll, the picture that emerged was bleak." He then cited two reporters who reported unpleasant conditions in post-war Iraq:
NBC's Richard Engel in Baghdad: "Since the U.S. invasion, there has not been a single day without mortar fire, car bombings or IED attacks."
ABC's Dan Harris in Baghdad: "The situation for many here has worsened. Since the war, millions of Iraqis no longer have drinkable water. In Baghdad, there's electricity for fewer than eight hours a day, compared to 18 before. And in a country with so much oil, today there are unfathomably long gas lines."
He contrasted these reports with the reporting of "ABC anchor Elizabeth Vargas," who "reminded viewers that before her co-anchor, Bob Woodruff, was injured by a roadside bomb in late January, he did a story on a thriving Baghdad ice cream shop, and that her December trip to Iraq included a piece on a ballet school."















"or whether the media have a value system (which long preceded this war) that violence is more newsworthy than anything else."
Gee, then that explains all the fawning coverage of the invasion when all we saw was massive amounts of bombs dropping on buildings, cruise missiles exploding, tanks shooting and firefights on the news for weeks and weeks on end.
Howie may have a point.
Logan's response is what every respectable media outlet should be stating; rather, than just reporting what he said and she said, and letting the audience decide what is true.
Rove and Company toss red herrings arguments into the public very well and the MSM picks up on them very gullibly. Now rather than sticking to reporting on the war, MSM is reporting on a manufactured issue surrounding the reporting of the war (sort of like O'Reilly's War on Christmas).
One of the things that has long stuck with me from a JC Introduction to Media class in the 70's went something like:
"News value is inversely proportional to its importance."
By what "value system" d'ya think Howie selects his stories?
...have been getting mileage out of this for decades -- the old "good news broadcast" schtick. News is when something out of the ordinary happens. The media don't report the fact that a jetliner landed safely, because that's what practically always happens -- it isn't news. They report when a jetliner crashes, because that's unusual -- it's an event out of the ordinary.
I'm sure that life for most Iraqis is not unrelenting violence and murder, but if the police found 50 - 60 dead people in New York every day, or roadside bombs went off every few hours in Pennsylvania, the media would sure as hell report it.
Where were the human interest stories on September 12th, 2001? Surely, schoolkids somewhere must have cleaned up a creek, or some immigrants must have opened a business. Someone's puppy must have been found. Did nothing good happen in America for 3 days after 9/11?
This whining is absurd. Iraq can't form a government, it can't police its streets, it can't keep its people from blowing up each others' mosques or executing each other by the score, and we're supposed to care that 200 more people got water? That a new disco opened up? Pathetic!
The problem is that less than a generation has passed since Vietnam, so the butt-heads who made this argument then are still around today.
Why does anyone really care what the "Media Critic" for the Washington Post thinks about the Iraqi War. He should stick to telling us his thoughts about Will & Grace or CSI. I agree with the post that talked about the futility of even spending time debating wether the media focus only on the bad aspects of the war. As soon as some Right Wing Wack Job can tell me five things that are going better than before we invaded AND supply the facts to back it up, then we will have something to discuss. Otherwise - Shut Up!
Freedom.
Yes, you're right. The Iraqi People are now free. Free from Saddam, and, perhaps more importantly, from Uday and Qusay. But they are not free from Moktada al-Sadr's militia, or other militias or the al-Qaeda Islamofascists. They do not have security, they do not have water, they do not have electricity, they do not have sewers, they do not have jobs, they do not have food. No question, the world is a better place without Saddam (and his sons!) but we need to do something better than "stay the course" -- we need to do better, and if we're not going to do better, then we need to get out before we do any more harm!
- They do not have security, they do not have water, they do not have electricity, they do not have sewers, they do not have jobs, they do not have food.
While those statements are patently false...let's move on.
Staying the course does not mean we are rigidly following a plan that is unworkable...but doggedly following a course to improve Iraq and defending America.
If you have some suggestions about fighting the war in Iraq...I'll be glad to listen.
Against whom? And after you regurgitate the GOP talking point "terrorists", please explain how our being in Iraq keeps any terrorist from attacking us in the U.S.
If you have some suggestions about fighting the war in Iraq...I'll be glad to listen.
I like Murtha's plan. I think it's amusing that the Bush apologists have been backed into a corner on this issue, reduced to the rhetorical rebuke, "Oh yeah? Well, what's YOUR plan?" Republicans made this mess. They should clean it up.
Are you withdrawing your assertion that Bush is "defending America" by staying the course in Iraq? Since you dodged the question, I can only assume you no longer stand by that gratuitous assertion.
We need to go one of two ways:
1) Double or triple or quadruple or quintuple the number of troops there, or whatever is needed (note to W, when fighting a war, ask your generals what they need and then give it to them) to actually provide security for the Iraqi people. If that means everyone posting here and everyone in the U.S. needs to do 6 months over there, so be it. But quit messing around. That's how we ended up losing 50,000 people in Vietnam for nothing.
2) Get the heck out.
I suspect even 1) has little chance of working, because the whole idea of taking over the country and turning it into a Western democracy was lunacy in the first place, as anyone (ANYONE!) with any sense of history or an ounce of sense would have known. Or anyone who really knows that war really should be the last resort.
You say "FREEDOM" is better, since Bush started this war? Freedom for WHOM? Not in America, where the "war on terror" is used to justify violations of our most basic rights, on the whim of the president. Not in Iraq, where tens of thousands are now DEAD (I guess that's a kind of freedom), and many thousands more with grievous injuries. Not the Kurds, nor the Sunnis, nor the Shiites ... "free" only to fear their neighbors AND American attack AND imported terrorists. Oh, and now they can fear IRAN, which under Bush's watchful eye is now developing nukes.
It sounds so clever and certain to say, "One word: FREEDOM" ... but the reality is anything BUT freedom. Bush himself sees no resolution for the next THREE YEARS at least. Who do you think you are fooling? Besides yourself, of course.
Bush went to war because he told us Saddam had WMDs that posed an immediate danger to the USA. He was WRONG. He switched to "democracy", but now we're telling the elected leader ... who can't seem to get any control ... that we don't want him, and America wants somebody else. That's "democracy"???
Everybody's got LESS freedom, so come up with some other lie.
I think you're being generous -- I think he flat-out lied.
One word: Facism.
- The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. - Bill Clinton, 1998
- We will complete the mission, because the security of the American people is linked to the success of a free Iraq. And when victory is achieved, our troops will come home. There will be more tough fighting ahead, with difficult days that test the patience and resolve of our country. Yet we can have faith in the final outcome because we have seen freedom overcome the darkness of tyranny and terror and secure the peace. In this century, freedom will prevail once again. - Pres. Bush
Freedoms lost...absurd. The president has exhibited steel in his actions to defend America. Has he made mistakes in prosecuting the war on terror...certainly. Are we making progress in Iraq...certainly.
Filtering opinions through a fog of hate for Pres.Bush does nothing to further the national debate on the future of democracy in America and around the world. Arguing incompetence in the president's actions is certainly legitimate...blindly mongering the "Bush lied" argument is vacuous.
Your attacks on Pres.Bush are passionate but sometimes devoid of facts. Old timers on this site will remember your loud and frequent support of saddam and opposition to the war...claiming falsely that saddam had complied with every UN resolution.
I do not mindlessly support "all things Bush"...but my filter is not a fog of hate.
Unfortunately, will not get through the fog of hate around here. That stuff is thick!
And here's what some free Iraqis look like:
http://iraq-kill-maim.org/kid-kill/kid-kill-01.htm
Don't look at this if you don't have a strong stomach.
Freedoms lost...absurd.
How about suspension of habeous corpus and warrantless wiretaps, to name two. FBI agents have been quoted as referring to the NSA program as "another thousand calls to Pizza Hut, meaning the numbers turned up in NSA scans had nothing to do even with suspected terrorists. The NSA employee whose prior revelations have turned out to be true has indicated that the program reaches far further than currently realized.
The president has exhibited steel in his actions to defend America.
Please provide an example which supports your assertion. I'm honestly at a loss to think of any. What does come to mind, however, is Bush's behavior in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. I also find the indefinite suspension of Consitutional rights, even if the real goal is security, to be a surrender to irrational fear.
Has he made mistakes in prosecuting the war on terror...certainly.
True. So why does Bush continue to push the same strategy that permitted the mistakes in the first place?
Are we making progress in Iraq...certainly.
Progress as in a consitution? True. As in elections? True. As in a new government? Not quite. But even conceding the first two, to what end? What other measurable signs of progress exist?
Oil production is below pre-war levels. Water treatment capabilities have improved, but those receiving water has dropped. More people receive electricity, but only as a result of a more fair distribution of capacity, which has actually dropped.
Violence continues at significant levels that many describe as only one step short of open civil war. Average monthly casualties of U.S. troops are indeed down slightly (~ 59 in 2004 vs ~ 55 over the last few months). However, that may be partly explained by a change in tactics by U.S. forces that leaves them less on the forefront. In addition, Iraqi casualty numbers are simply dismissed as "unreliable," making any measure of progress problematic.
- So why does Bush continue to push the same strategy that permitted the mistakes in the first place?...However, that may be partly explained by a change in tactics by U.S. forces that leaves them less on the forefront. - christiandemocrat
Pay heed to all that enter...beware the phog.
Almost a good job of taking my words out of context. However, if you wanted to be complete about it you would have left out the words strategy and/or tactics from the quotes. That way it would have definitely appeared that I had rebutted my own argument.
However, If you go back to my post above, you'll see I was referring to Bush's "war on terror" strategy vs. the tactics of U.S. troops in Iraq. It's essentially Bush's (actually PNAC's) flawed strategy of using military force to project U.S. interests that put us in Iraq. Last I checked, our troops are still there and will be for years to come. Now the administration is spoiling for a fight with Iran.
As for U.S. troops reducing their visibility, it's possible that has resulted in some reduction in U.S. casualties. (It's also possible that this is just another lull as has been experienced occasionally over the last 3 years.) But the administration strategy remains with no admission that Iraq was a mistake that has actually resulted in an increase in terrorism.
ugh
It took only one word for you to make a fool of yourself.
I certainly hope you use more words when you post your brilliant response to Tex.
Huge Defense Industry Profits
No, but the media have declared war on their traditional role of countering the spin of any given administration. Thank God that there are a few lonely voices in the media who have become conscientious objectors.
Did you really compare the factual report that there has not been a single day without significant violence in Iraq since our invasion with two human interest stories about an ice cream shop and a dance company? If you can't see which of those reports contributes more to the American public's understanding of the reality of Iraq, then you have no business being called a "media critic."
It's on crooks & liars,
[link to www.crooksandliars.com]
Mediamatters should host the entire video, it's very much worth the bandwidth.
...to put up, or shut up.
Howard, you're so sure there's good news in Iraq -- PRINT SOME!!! You have a column in a national newspaper; you can say anything you want. Let's hear some of this good news. How many people spend time in national news media whining about the lack of good news from Iraq, when they could spend that time reporting the good news? If they haven't got it, but are so sure it's there, they can get on a plane to Baghdad and get it themselves.
The President has unlimited ability to command the attention of the national press, and all he says is "progress is being made over there". Really? Let's hear some of it. What, you don't have enough access to the media to tell a few stories of good news?
It is totally ridiculous for so many people to spend time and column inches in the media bitching about what the media print instead of printing what they think is going unsaid. They are a pack of pathetic cowards.
Furthermore, I want to know why the media are so determined that Americans have a negative view of France. All I see in the news is riots. Where is the good news? I demand more balanced coverage of the news from France. And Germany, too, while we're at it. Surely there is good news in Germany, and Israel, and everywhere else. Why was the coverage of the Rwandan genocide so bad? Why did the media want Americans to be so negative about Rwanda during the genocide?
Iraq and Afghanistan are the only countries on Earth where conservative pundits require the media "balance" their coverage of events to reflect positive views. Why? Because their guy's ass is on the line over what's happening there, and they're desperate to salvage his political fortunes.
......And Now For The Good News..........
the interview with Logan. Jack Cafferty smacks down Kurtz on the exact same subject of media coverage of Iraq.
[link to www.crooksandliars.com]
"This is nonsense, it's the media's fault and the news isn't good in Iraq. The news isn't good in Iraq. There's violence in Iraq. People are found dead every day in the streets of Baghdad. This didn't turn out the way the politicians told us it would. And it's our fault? I beg to differ." - Cafferty
Apparently Howard Kurtz just ignores whatever arguements and facts that have been presented to him in the past and sticks to his own false talking points and pretends that nobody has answered his questions before today.
...is in the hopper. He appears to be just as far behind the reality curve as GWB. This whole "it's the media's fault" is the beginning of the President's political withdrawl from Iraq. Not only is it the liberal media's fault that we're going to 'lose' Iraq, but the Iraqi people's as well( hey! dont forget about Saddam's 'legacy' , too). It's the Right's attempt to put into place a rationale which will deflect responsibilty away from them for this soon to be recognized(by ALMOST everybody) catastrophic American failure. This smells of Rove. Kurtz is playing his part oh-so-well.
Astounding how the MSM ducks and bobs when called to the carpet.
For example, continuous 24 hour over-coverage for days on something? Excuse: we've got 24 hour channels that need to cover something, so they cover it over and over. Question: why weren't the Seattle protests covered over and over? Answer: (fill in any excuse here, it doesn't matter.)
Then there's "the people don't want to hear it". Of course, Donahue was cancelled when it was the channel's most popular show.
"It's a business, so we do whatever is profitable." Farenheit 9/11 was a HUGE financial success, which shows up that lie.
From when I was a KID, and there were only 3 network channels, the local 30-minute broadcast had one firm rule: "If it BLEEDS, it LEADS."
We saw every bloody accident and knife fight and murder in town, in rapid succession. Good news? Very little time for any of that.
The old police gazettes, in the days of ONLY radio, similarly put the mob hits and suicides and bloody crashes splashed across the front page. (A recent "period" movie featured such a photographer, a guy who thought the placement of a victim's HAT was of special importance in a photograph's composition.)
So, where has Howie BEEN? Has he JUST NOW NOTICED that violence gets covered? Or is this "discovery" just a hand-wringing exercise birthed on the occasion of Bush's plumeting poll numbers, seeking a reason OTHER THAN his lying and gross incompetence?
As to declaring war on the war - this morning's paper: "Bush Administration pressures Jafari to resign." Who's in charge here?
They should declare war on the Bush administration. I think, once that rock is turned over, the slimey things we find will amaze even the troglodytes in the GOP base.
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery
Slimy is Beautiful
We lost 3,000 Americans to violence one day, five years ago.
The Iraqis are losing 30-60 people per day in their civil war. If that continues for five years, that will be 50,000 to 100,00 Iraqi deaths. But, you know, that's not supposed to change anything. We're supposed to believe that, if only the cameras stayed on after the smoke clears, we'd see young Iraqi couples strolling by the ice cream parlor, hand-in-hand, (with her in a spaghetti strap top) .
The violence is news because it does change everything. The neocons know that as well as anyone, because it ruined their free-market (wet) dream for post-war Iraq. They just can't move on because they can't accept the fact that their invasion turned into the turd that is never, ever going to blossom for them.
Despite how desperately the Bush apologists want to change the focus. Newly painted schools, fruit stands on the corner, purple fingers and all that stuff don't mean a whole hell o a lot if you're afraid to leave your house in the daylight.
The continuing violence is a symptom of a failed, irresponsible, ill-advised, unnecessary foreign policy blunder. Of course they don't want to talk about it.
...but I wish they would.
I agree with Kurtz. It's like the Vietnam war. All we hear is about the 58,000 American dead and million+ Vietnamese. Nobody talks about the 3 million American soldiers that served and didn't die in that war! Where was the good news there? When the 9/11 tragedy happened, all you heard was the bad news. What about the fact that several city blocks in lower manhattan were cleared for new construction? Nobody reported that nugget. The press makes me sick.
You guys are slipping. I enjoy 75% of this site. But sometimes your just barking up the wrong tree. You guys soooo miss the point sometimes, it's like you just aren't really thinking. Did you ever think that Kurtz serves up that question, knowing exactly how it's going to be answered? I think Kurtz is a good reporter. I read him everyday. Remember, he's someone who covers the media, just like you.
"You guys soooo miss the point sometimes"
Like...you are soooooo like gnarly. It's like you're not smart or something.
Didn't he do both?
You can't just peg Kurtz's comment here and there. You have to look at the whole picture. Sometimes he seems a little more right, sometimes a little more left. I think throwing him in with the likes of O'liely or Hannity is a bit of a stretch.